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The_Prince
08-11-2008, 07:18 PM
Russian forces seized several towns and a military base deep in western Georgia on Monday, opening a second front in the fighting. Georgia's president said his country had been effectively cut in half with the capture of the main east-west highway near Gori.
Fighting also raged Monday around Tskhinvali, the capital of the separatist province of South Ossetia. Russian warplanes launched new air raids across Georgia, with at least one sending screaming civilians running for cover.

The reported capture of the key Georgian city of Gori and the towns of Senaki, Zugdidi and Kurga came despite a top Russian general's claim earlier Monday that Russia had no plans to enter Georgian territory. By taking Gori, which sits on Georgia's only east-west highway, Russia can cut off eastern Georgia from the country's western Black Sea coast.

"(Russian forces) came to the central route and cut off connections between western and eastern Georgia," Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told a national security meeting.

The news agency Interfax, however, cited a Russian Defense Ministry official as denying Gori was captured.

Security Council head Alexander Lomaia said Monday it was not immediately clear if Russian forces would advance on Tbilisi, the Georgian capital. At Georgia's request, U.N. Security Council in New York called an emergency session for later Monday — the fifth meeting on the fighting in as many days.

The two-front battlefield was a major escalation in the conflict that blew up late Thursday after a Georgian offensive to regain control of the separatist province of South Ossetia. Even as Saakashvili signed a cease-fire pledge Monday with EU mediators, Russia flexed its military muscle and appeared determined to subdue the small U.S. ally that has been pressing for NATO membership.

On Monday afternoon, Russian troops invaded Georgia from the western separatist province of Abkhazia while most Georgian forces were busy with fighting in the central region around South Ossetia.

Russian armored personnel carriers moved into Senaki, a town 20 miles inland from Georgia's Black Sea port of Poti, Lomaia said. Russian forces also moved into Zugdidi, near Abkhazia, and seized police stations, while their Abkhazian allies took control of the nearby village of Kurga, according to witnesses and Georgian officials.

In Zugdidi, an AP reporter saw five or six Russian soldiers posted outside an Interior Ministry building. Several tanks and other armored vehicles were moving through the town but the streets were nearly deserted, with shops, restaurants and banks all shut down.

In the city of Gori, an AP reporter heard artillery fire and Georgian soldiers warned locals to get out because Russian tanks were approaching. Hundreds of terrified residents fled toward Tbilisi using any means of transport they could find. Many stood along the road trying to flag down passing cars.

An APTV film crew saw Georgian tanks and military vehicles speeding along the road from Gori to Tbilisi. Firing began and people ran for cover. A couple of cars could be seen in flames along the side of the road.

Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. Both provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s — and both have close ties with Moscow.

Georgia began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia late Thursday with heavy shelling and air strikes that ravaged South Ossetia's provincial capital of Tskhinvali.

The Russia response was swift and overpowering — thousands of troops that shelled the Georgians until they fled Tskhinvali on Sunday, and four days of bombing raids across Georgia.

Yet Georgia's pledge of a cease-fire rang hollow Monday. An AP reporter saw a small group of Georgian fighters open fire on a column of Russian and Ossetian military vehicles outside Tskhinvali, triggering a 30-minute battle. The Russians later said all the Georgians were killed.

Another AP reporter was in the village of Tkviavi, 7 1/2 miles south of Tskhinvali inside Georgia, when a bomb from a Russian Sukhoi warplane struck a house. The walls of neighboring buildings fell as screaming residents ran for cover. Eighteen people were wounded.

Georgian artillery fire was heard coming from fields about 200 yards away from the village, perhaps the bomber's target.

Hundreds of Georgian troops headed north Monday along the road toward Tskhinvali, pocked with tank regiments creeping up the highway into South Ossetia. Hundreds of other soldiers traveled via trucks in the opposite direction, towing light artillery weapons.

President Bush and other Western leaders have sharply criticized Russia's military response as disproportionate and say Russia appears to want the Georgian government overthrown. They have also complained that Russian warplanes — buzzing over Georgia since Friday — have bombed Georgian oil sites and factories far from the conflict zone.

The world's seven largest economic powers urged Russia to accept an immediate cease-fire Monday and agree to international mediation. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her colleagues from the Group of Seven leading industrialized nations spoke by telephone and pledged their support for a negotiated solution to the conflict.

"I've expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response of Russia and that we strongly condemn the bombing outside of South Ossetia," Bush told NBC Sports.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin criticized the United States for viewing Georgia as the victim, instead of the aggressor, and for airlifting Georgian troops back home from Iraq on Sunday.

"Of course, Saddam Hussein ought to have been hanged for destroying several Shiite villages," Putin said in Moscow. "And the incumbent Georgian leaders who razed ten Ossetian villages at once, who ran elderly people and children with tanks, who burned civilian alive in their sheds — these leaders must be taken under protection."

The U.S. military was flying Georgian troops back home from Iraq and informed the Russians about the flights ahead of time to avoid mishaps, said one military official said Monday on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the subject on the record.

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman said Monday morning that U.S. officials expect to have all Georgian troops out of Iraq by the end of the day.

Pentagon officials said Monday that U.S. military was assessing the fighting every day to determine whether U.S. trainers should be pulled out of the country.

The approximately 130 trainers, including a few dozen civilians, had been scattered at a number of sites to work with local units, but officials were working over the weekend to consolidate them in one reasonably safe location, two officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not allowed to talk about the subject on the record. Pentagon officials said Monday that all of members of the American groups had been accounted for.

Saakashvili signed a cease-fire pledge Monday proposed by the French and Finnish foreign ministers. The EU envoys headed to Moscow to try to persuade Russia to accept it.

Saakashvili, however, voiced concern that Russia's true goal was to undermine his pro-Western government. "It's all about the independence and democracy of Georgia," he said.

Saakashvili said Russia has sent 20,000 troops and 500 tanks into Georgia. He said Russian warplanes were bombing roads and bridges, destroying radar systems and targeting Tbilisi's civilian airport. One Russian bombing raid struck the Tbilisi airport area only a half-hour before the EU envoys arrived, he said.

Another hit near key Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, which carries Caspian crude to the West. No supply interruptions have been reported.

Abkhazia's separatists declared Sunday they would push Georgian forces out of the northern part of the Kodori Gorge, the only area of Abkhazia still under Georgian control.

Before invading western Georgia, Russia's deputy chief of General Staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn demanded Monday that Georgia disarm its police in Zugdidi, a town just outside Abkhazia. Still he insisted "We are not planning any offensive."

At least 9,000 Russian troops and 350 armored vehicles were in Abkhazia, according to a Russian military commander.

Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said more than 2,000 people have been killed in South Ossetia since Friday, most of them Ossetians with Russian passports. The figures could not be independently confirmed, but refugees who fled Tskhinvali over the weekend said hundreds had been killed.

Many found shelter in the Russian province of North Ossetia.

"The Georgians burned all of our homes," said one elderly woman, as she sat on a bench under a tree with three other white-haired survivors. "The Georgians say it is their land. Where is our land, then?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080811/...uGtDaGHnlvaA8F
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Amadeus85
08-11-2008, 08:01 PM
I have no idea why Sakashvili started war with country like Russia without being sure that he would be supported by other powerful country.
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Keltoi
08-11-2008, 08:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I have no idea why Sakashvili started war with country like Russia without being sure that he would be supported by other powerful country.
Perhaps he thought the U.S. would get involved.
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KAding
08-11-2008, 10:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I have no idea why Sakashvili started war with country like Russia without being sure that he would be supported by other powerful country.
Maybe he didn't start the war?
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mediadave
08-11-2008, 11:59 PM
The Russians have been provoking Georgia for years; arming and funding separetists within its borders, flying jets across its territory and hoping the Georgians would shoot at them, and effectively taking over Abkhazia and South Ossetia while those territories are officialy and legally Georgian (I don't actually have a problem with self determination of peoples, as long as it it done properly with unbiased outside supervision). Now Georgia has given Russia the excuse they've been looking for, to ravage an upstart western leaning coutry - proving the power of Russia to its neighbours, and showing what might happen to them if they get too close to the West.
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Keltoi
08-12-2008, 12:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mediadave
The Russians have been provoking Georgia for years; arming and funding separetists within its borders, flying jets across its territory and hoping the Georgians would shoot at them, and effectively taking over Abkhazia and South Ossetia while those territories are officialy and legally Georgian (I don't actually have a problem with self determination of peoples, as long as it it done properly with unbiased outside supervision). Now Georgia has given Russia the excuse they've been looking for, to ravage an upstart western leaning coutry - proving the power of Russia to its neighbours, and showing what might happen to them if they get too close to the West.
Bingo! You win an exciting cruise to the beautiful Siberian coast.
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north_malaysian
08-12-2008, 01:10 AM
so ... who would help Georgia now?
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The_Prince
08-12-2008, 02:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I have no idea why Sakashvili started war with country like Russia without being sure that he would be supported by other powerful country.
you think he wud do something like this without informing the US, and NATO? they all knew and probaly encouraged him on further. plus israeli millitary advisors were in on it too.

they miscalculated russia's response, russia knows whats going on, and is using such hard force to send a message to the US and NATO who are using georgia as a proxy.
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The_Prince
08-12-2008, 02:32 AM
Jewish Georgian Minister Temur Yakobshvili on Sunday praised the Israel Defense Forces for its role in training Georgian troops and said Israel should be proud of its military might, in an interview with Army Radio.

“Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers,” Yakobashvili told Army Radio in Hebrew, referring to a private Israeli group Georgia had hired.

Yakobashvili, Georgia’s minister of reintegration, added that this training provided Georgia with the know-how needed to defend itself against Russian forces in the clashes which erupted last last week in the separatist region of South Ossetia.

Yakobashvili said that a small group of Georgian soldiers had able to wipe out an entire Russian military division due to this training.

“We killed 60 Russian soldiers just yesterday,” said Yakobashvili. “The Russians have lost more than 50 tanks, and we have shot down 11 of their planes. They have enormous damage in terms of manpower,”

Yakobashvili warned that the Russians would try and open another battlefront in Abkhazia and he denied reports that the Georgian army was retreating. "The Georgian forces are not retreating. We move our military according to security needs."

"There was no attack on the airport in Tbilisi. It was a factory that produces combat airplanes," said Yakobashvili referring to the attacks in the country's capital.

"The whole world is starting to understand that what is happening here will determine the future of this region, the future price of crude oil, the future of central Asia, and the future of NATO," the Georgian minister added.

According to him, "every bomb that falls over our heads is an attack on democracy, on the European Union and on America."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1010187.html
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The_Prince
08-12-2008, 02:38 AM
U.S. Military Instructors Command Hirelings in Georgia

Thousands of mercenaries are fighting for Georgia in this burning conflict with South Ossetia. They are commanded by the U.S. military instructors, RIA Novosti reported with reference to a high-ranked officer of Russia’s military intelligence.

“From 2,500 to 3,000 mercenaries fight against Russia’s peacekeepers on behalf of Georgia,” the unnamed source said. Amid them are the natives of Ukraine, some Baltic states and the Caucasus regions.

The U.S. military instructors directly command and coordinate actions of mercenaries without being involved in actual fighting, the source specified. According to intelligence data, there are roughly 1,000 military instructors of the United States in Georgia.

Task force of Russia has annihilated a few groups of mercenaries. Some of mercenaries have been captured, and investigators are working with them, the source said.

http://kommersant.com/p-13081/mercen...S._instructor- Russia's Daily Online
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north_malaysian
08-12-2008, 09:16 AM
Reactions from Muslim nations:

AZERBAIJAN

A spokesman for the Azeri Foreign Ministry, Khazar Ibrahim, said that the Georgian actions were in accord with international law and that Azerbaijan recognizes the territorial integrity of Georgia.[14]According to Azerbaijani media, several ethnic Georgians of Azerbaijani citizenship in Qakh and Zaqatala regions of Azerbaijan had crossed the Azerbaijani-Georgian border to join Georgian forces.[15] There is negative public opinion in Azerbaijan regarding Russia's actions in Georgian territory[16]


BANGLADESH

The caretaker government's Foreign Advisor Iftekhar Ahmed Chowdhury said in a statement: "This outbreak of violence is a matter of deep concern for the international community including Bangladesh. We hope for an early cessation of hostilities." [17]


IRAN

Islamic Republic Foreign Ministry spokesman Hassan Ghashghavi said: "The Islamic republic voices concern over the military conflicts in South Ossetia that have led to the killing of defenseless people and calls for an immediate halt to the clashes", he was also quoted as saying: "Iran is ready to offer any help ... under its principal policies of contributing to the establishment of peace and stability in the region".[39]


KAZAKHSTAN

Following Vladimir Putin's remarks, the President of Kazakhstan, Nursultan Nazarbayev, said "The Georgian leadership was not right when it failed to inform [other nations] on its actions toward South Ossetia and about higher tensions taking place there". Interfax also reported that Nazarbayev "agreed with Putin's view that countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States should make an assessment of the situation and undertake efforts to halt it".[46]


TURKEY

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said that the fighting is a grave concern for Turkey, which neighbors Georgia. Erdoğan has called for an immediate cease-fire and has said that he would call Georgian and Russian leaders to urge restraint if necessary.[58] Later on that day, Turkey agreed to a Georgian request to supply 30-40 MW of electricity to Georgia.[59]

CAUCASUS EMIRATE

On 9 August, Movladi Udugov, rebel spokesman for the Caucasus Emirate, stated that "for the time being neither Tbilisi nor Washington has not appealed to us with any requests or offers" to fight alongside Georgian forces against the Russian forces. Udugov also noted: "But I clearly can say that the command of the Caucasus Emirate is following with great interest the development of the situation." [75]


CHECHNYA

Usman Ferzauli, the Foreign Minster of the separatist Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, called for the international community to halt the Russian advance in Georgia, stating: "Based on this alarming situation, the leadership of the CRI calls on all peace-loving countries to show integrity and curb the aggressor, to prevent the escalation of military conflict."[76]

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...th_Ossetia_War
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Amadeus85
08-12-2008, 11:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
so ... who would help Georgia now?
No one has to, because the war is about to end.
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AvarAllahNoor
08-12-2008, 12:14 PM
US encouraged Georgia to do this. Russia won't allow Georgia to join NATO so US can have military bases in Georgia. Well done Russia. They've gone into stop genocide of Ossetians!
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Al-Zaara
08-12-2008, 03:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mediadave
...
That is most possible, but most definitely not the only side to the whole story.
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Amadeus85
08-12-2008, 05:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
US encouraged Georgia to do this. Russia won't allow Georgia to join NATO so US can have military bases in Georgia. Well done Russia. They've gone into stop genocide of Ossetians!
Ossetia and Abhazia are parts of Goergia. When USSR was falling down, Russians made separatistic republics there, only to have better control over that part of Caucas.
Its suprising for me that so many non westerners condemn USA imperialism but they dont even notice the imperialistic policy made by Russia.Because Russians wants to do with Georgia same what they've done with Chechenia - put russian puppet as president there.
Small country is fightig for independence against big imperium.
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north_malaysian
08-13-2008, 01:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Ossetia and Abhazia are parts of Goergia. When USSR was falling down, Russians made separatistic republics there, only to have better control over that part of Caucas.
Its suprising for me that so many non westerners condemn USA imperialism but they dont even notice the imperialistic policy made by Russia.Because Russians wants to do with Georgia same what they've done with Chechenia - put russian puppet as president there.
Small country is fightig for independence against big imperium.
The Russians were involved in Transnistria too right in Moldova?
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Trumble
08-13-2008, 01:29 AM
The Georgians were stupid to give the Russians an excuse, but the only 'imperialism' here is Russian. There's not the slightest bit of evidence the US had anything to do with it.

As to

Russia won't allow Georgia to join NATO so US can have military bases in Georgia
who is Russia to "allow" it or not? Georgia is a sovereign nation, no matter how much some Russians may remember the good 'ol days of the Soviet Union. As with the Ukrainians, also regularly bullied by Russia, I would have thought the reason the Georgians might want to join NATO has become obvious. Whether NATO would wish to risk letting them if the Russians are likely to march in at any moment is a different matter.
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Izyan
08-13-2008, 01:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
The Georgians were stupid to give the Russians an excuse, but the only 'imperialism' here is Russian. There's not the slightest bit of evidence the US had anything to do with it.

As to



who is Russia to "allow" it or not? Georgia is a sovereign nation, no matter how much some Russians may remember the good 'ol days of the Soviet Union. As with the Ukrainians, also regularly bullied by Russia, I would have thought the reason the Georgians might want to join NATO has become obvious. Whether NATO would wish to risk letting them if the Russians are likely to march in at any moment is a different matter.
Well Georgia had to do something. The Russians were arming and financing the Russian minority that was causing havoc in Ossetia and Abhazia
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The_Prince
08-13-2008, 01:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Ossetia and Abhazia are parts of Goergia. When USSR was falling down, Russians made separatistic republics there, only to have better control over that part of Caucas.
Its suprising for me that so many non westerners condemn USA imperialism but they dont even notice the imperialistic policy made by Russia.Because Russians wants to do with Georgia same what they've done with Chechenia - put russian puppet as president there.
Small country is fightig for independence against big imperium.
the reason why condemnation on russia isnt the same as it is for the US is because the russians dont deny their plans, and dont go about acting like their the best role model on this planet, yapping about democrazy and rights etc. the US does all these things and always blow their own horns yet do the opposite, hence thats why people complain more, because of the double standards and hypocrisy. with russia you know what you get, with the US they kill you and smile peace at you.
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The_Prince
08-13-2008, 01:37 PM
Russian tanks rolled into the crossroads city of Gori on Wednesday then thrust deep into Georgian territory, violating the truce designed to end the six-day war that has uprooted 100,000 people and scarred the Georgian landscape.
Georgian officials said Gori was looted and bombed by the Russians. An AP reporter later saw dozens of tanks and military vehicles leaving the city, roaring south.

Troops waved at journalists and one soldier jokingly shouted to a photographer: "Come with us, beauty, we're going to Tbilisi!"

To the west, Abkahzian separatist forces backed by Russian military might pushed out Georgian troops and even moved into Georgian territory, defiantly planting a flag.

"The border has been along this river for 1,000 years," separatist official Ruslan Kishmaria told AP on Wednesday. He said Georgia would have to accept the new border and taunted the retreating Georgian forces, saying they had received "American training in running away."

The developments came less than 12 hours after Georgia's president said he accepted a cease-fire plan brokered by France. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Tuesday that Russia was halting military action because Georgia had paid enough for its attack last Thursday on the pro-Russian breakaway province of South Ossetia.

"There is no cease-fire," Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told CNN Wednesday. "We have a humanitarian disaster on our hands."

Saakashvili gambled on a surprise attack late Thursday to regain control over South Ossetia. Instead, Georgia suffered a punishing beating from Russian tanks and aircraft that has left the country with even less control over territory than before.

About 50 Russian tanks entered Gori on Wednesday morning, according to a top Georgian official, Alexander Lomaia. The city of 50,000 sits on Georgia's only significant east-west road about 15 miles south of South Ossetia, a separatist province where much of the fighting has taken place.

Russia's deputy chief of General Staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn insisted Wednesday that no tanks were in Gori. He said Russians went into the city to implement the truce with local Georgian officials but could not find any.

However, AP reporters and television crews saw several dozen Russian military trucks and armored vehicles driving first around in Gori, then speeding south. One reporter was told to retreat to the south because Russian shelling would soon begin.

Nogovitsyn also said sporadic clashes continued in South Ossetia where Georgian snipers fired sporadically on Russian troops who returned fire. "We must respond to provocations," he said.

Russia has handed out passports to most in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and stationed peacekeepers in the both regions since the early 1990s. Georgia wants the Russian peacekeepers out, but Medvedev insisted Tuesday they would stay.

In the west, Georgian troops acknowledged Wednesday they had completely pulled out of a small section of Abkhazia which they had controlled — a development that leaves the entire area in the hands of the Russian-backed separatists.

"This is Abkhazian land," one separatist told an AP reporter over the Inguri River, saying they were laying claim to historical Abkhazian territory and that Georgian troops left without challenging them. The fighters had moved across a thin slice of land dotted with Georgian villages.

Georgia insisted its troops were driven out by Russian forces. At first, Russia said that separatists had done the job, not Russian forces. Nogovitsyn said Wednesday that Russian peacekeepers had disarmed Georgian troops in Kodori — the same peacekeepers that Georgia wants withdrawn.

The effect was clear. Abkhazia was out of Georgian hands and it would take more than an EU peace plan to get it back in.

One of two separatists areas trying to leave Georgia for Russia, Abkhazia lies close to the heart of many Russians. It's Black Sea coast was a favorite vacation spot for the Soviet elite, and the province is just down the coast from Sochi, the Russian resort that will host the 2014 Olympics.

Lomaia said Russian troops also still held the western town of Zugdidi near Abkhazia, controlling the region's main highway. An AP reporter saw a convoy of 13 Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers in Zugdidi's outskirts on Wednesday.

"Russia has treacherously broken its word," Lomaia said.

The first U.N. relief flight arrived in Georgia on Tuesday to help the tens of thousands uprooted by six days of fighting. Thousands of Georgian refugees have streamed into Tbilisi, the capital, or the western Black Sea coast while thousands more South Ossetian refugees headed north to Russia. Those left behind in devastated regions of Georgia cowered in rat-infested cellars or wandered nearly deserted cities.

At a huge rally Tuesday night, Saakashvili said Russia's aim all along was not to gain control of the two disputed provinces but to "destroy" the smaller nation, a former Soviet state and current U.S. ally who wants to join NATO.

"They just don't want freedom, and that's why they want to stamp on Georgia and destroy it," he declared to thousands at a jam-packed square in Tbilisi.

He was joined by the leaders of five former Soviet bloc states — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Ukraine — who also spoke out against Russian domination.

"Our neighbor thinks it can fight us. We are telling it no," said Polish President Lech Kaczynski.

In Brussels, Belgium, France sought support from its EU partners to deploy European peacekeeping monitors to the area. But French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said the move would only take place with the consent of both Russia and Georgia.

Russia accused Georgia of killing more than 2,000 people, mostly civilians, in South Ossetia. The claim couldn't be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the area over the weekend said hundreds had died.

Georgia said Wednesday that 175 Georgians had died in five days of air and ground attacks that left homes in smoldering ruins, including some killed Tuesday in a Russian bombing raid of Gori just hours before Medvedev declared fighting halted.

An AP reporter also saw heavy damage from a raid Tuesday in a Georgian village near Gori. Two men and a woman in Ruisi were killed and another five were wounded.

"I always hide in the basement," said one villager, the 70-year old Vakhtang Chkhekvadze as he pulled off a window frame blasted by an explosion. "But this time the explosion came so abruptly, I don't remember what happened afterward."

The Russia-Georgia dispute also reached the international courts, with the Georgian security council saying it had sued Russia for alleged ethnic cleansing. For his part, Medvedev reiterated accusations that Georgia had committed "genocide" in trying to reclaim South Ossetia.

At the Beijing Olympics, Georgian women rallied Wednesday to beat their Russian counterparts in beach volleyball, the first head-to-head clash of the two nations.

"Russia and Georgia are actually friends. People are friends," said the Georgian beach volleyball team leader, Levan Akhtulediani. "But you know, it's not, in the 21st century, to bomb a neighbor country, it's not a good idea."

"I say once again, its better to compete on the field rather than outside the field," he added.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/georgia_russia
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Amadeus85
08-13-2008, 04:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
The Russians were involved in Transnistria too right in Moldova?
Yes, the same as in Georgia. "Divide and conquer" rule. Now Russians felt stronger and they are not afraid of West reaction, especially that USA stucked in Middle East and UE is military weak.
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north_malaysian
08-14-2008, 05:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Yes, the same as in Georgia. "Divide and conquer" rule. Now Russians felt stronger and they are not afraid of West reaction, especially that USA stucked in Middle East and UE is military weak.
Because of USA invasion in Iraq, and with EU in Afghanistan. Russia is potraying itself as the friend of the Muslim world....and many Muslim countries are buying this, including my country - Malaysia. We bought lots of jet fighters and military weapons from Russia...and sent our astronauts to train in Russia..
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Amadeus85
08-14-2008, 10:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Because of USA invasion in Iraq, and with EU in Afghanistan. Russia is potraying itself as the friend of the Muslim world....and many Muslim countries are buying this, including my country - Malaysia. We bought lots of jet fighters and military weapons from Russia...and sent our astronauts to train in Russia..

Russia as a friend of muslim world? Knowing Russia's past and present history its hard to believe.
They rather use some muslim countries(like Iran) in their games with West and vice versa.
But it is all about money and the power.
But they have good weapon, and their technology is not that bad thnx to oil money.
In my opinion Russia will have to become member of EU and ally with Europe and USA especially that they(Russians) feel the breaths of millions of Chinese on their back in Syberia.
Maybe we need more time until russian politics understand this.
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Keltoi
08-14-2008, 02:33 PM
I think Georgia was set up for this one. There had been fighting between Georgia and the separatists in Ossetia before this, and Russia stated that they had no control over the Ossetian fighters. Georgia then took matters in their own hands, only to find out that Russia had more influence with the Ossetians than they let on. I think Putin may have made a miscalculation as to how this event was going to be recieved globally. Not unlike how Bush made a miscalculation as to how the Iraq War would be recieved.
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north_malaysian
08-15-2008, 01:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Russia as a friend of muslim world? Knowing Russia's past and present history its hard to believe.
They rather use some muslim countries(like Iran) in their games with West and vice versa.
But it is all about money and the power.
But they have good weapon, and their technology is not that bad thnx to oil money.
In my opinion Russia will have to become member of EU and ally with Europe and USA especially that they(Russians) feel the breaths of millions of Chinese on their back in Syberia.
Maybe we need more time until russian politics understand this.
In 2004, Putin attended OIC Leader Conference in Kuala Lumpur and Russia got observer status in OIC.

Plus they have 24/7 News Channel in Arabic called "Russiya Al Yawm" to propagate Russia to the Arab viewers....

Many Muslims think that Russia want supports from Muslim nations... Because Russia have good relationship with Malaysia, our local medias mention nothing about Chechnya...
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Islamic Brother
08-15-2008, 10:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaron85
no one has to, because the war is about to end.

you are right actually i just read that they signed a cease fire treaty

which means if russia attacks georgia again without legally declaring war and ending the treaty then.....

It will be recognised as a crime of war and usa and great britain and all those powerfull countries will turn to russia

thats all i know right now
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