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shahrazad
08-14-2008, 05:50 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this since I can't get into the sisters section yet.

I'm curious as to the reasons that sisters give for wearing the headscarf. I accept that hijab means modest dress, but I've done enough research to know that there are many different interpretations of the verses in the Qur'an that deal with cloaks and coverings...and that it's not as simple as "Allah told all women to cover their heads", that's just 1 interpretation.

as a new Muslim I've had a few people (all brothers incidentally) advise me to cover my head. but when I ask them why, their reasons are either vague or not quite right in my eyes. like it's merely an issue of image and identity, that I should do it because the majority of other Muslim women do it too. or, that men will have more respect for me if I do. it sounds like these are political or traditional/cultural reasons rather than religious.

one vague reason was "it will help you to be a better Muslim" or something along the lines of "it will give you strength".........how?

I also had one sister tell me she does it because it makes her feel safe and no one harasses her when her head is covered... a sensible explanation, but what does it have to do with Islam? shouldn't she be doing it for Allah not for her own convenience?

also maybe it's just because I've been paying more attention lately, but I tend to see more women these days wearing headscarves, paired with tight jeans and low-cut top....and in these cases, to me it shows that it's more a cultural symbol than a sign of religious modesty...

I'd be very interested to hear your reasons!!
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chacha_jalebi
08-14-2008, 05:54 PM
well im not a sister but im in touch with my feminine side lol naa jokes apart :p

the Quraan is quite clear that covering is a must for a ladies, and the bestest of women like Hadhrat Fatima (ra), Aisha (ra) Hafsah (ra) Asma (ra) etc, all covered their heads, and if i was a lady, i would just copy them lol, but like i said the Quraan has it in there explicity, so that would be one reason!

also a thought to ponder...

if you had a trillion squillion pound note, would you parade it openly and show everyone? NO, you would hide it from the envious eyes and the people that are gona jack it from you! same way, the muslim women are more precious then that, and they cover themselfs up, because they are precious:D
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UmmSqueakster
08-14-2008, 06:12 PM
First as a disclaimer - I think hijab is pushed too hard on new converts, to the detriment of other things. Very few people offer to teach the converts how to pray, or make sure they know the integrals of fasting, etc. It's usually hijab, hijab, change your name, hijab, get married, hijab hijab hijab. Well, at least that's from my own experience and observation of other converts.

Ok, now that I've said that:


Hijab should be worn soley for the pleasure of Allah (swt), because Allah (swt) commands it. The Qur'an says that we should be known as muslims, and covering one's hair is a part of that. That's the traditional interpretation. That's how it's been for most of muslim history. That's how the vast majority of scholars throughout our history have interpreted our sacred texts.

There are plenty of secondary reasons people give, but in the end, as muslims our purpose is to submit to Allah (swt). If Allah (swt) commands it, you do it. So I'd say don't worry about all the other justifications. Look into what Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saws) have to say about it. If they say to wear it, then do it.

http://www.muhajabah.com/whyhijab.htm
Reply

shahrazad
08-14-2008, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
well im not a sister but im in touch with my feminine side lol naa jokes apart :p

the Quraan is quite clear that covering is a must for a ladies, and the bestest of women like Hadhrat Fatima (ra), Aisha (ra) Hafsah (ra) Asma (ra) etc, all covered their heads, and if i was a lady, i would just copy them lol, but like i said the Quraan has it in there explicity, so that would be one reason!

also a thought to ponder...

if you had a trillion squillion pound note, would you parade it openly and show everyone? NO, you would hide it from the envious eyes and the people that are gona jack it from you! same way, the muslim women are more precious then that, and they cover themselfs up, because they are precious:D
well no, from my research, the Qur'an is not so explicit about HEAD covering... depends on the interpretation. it tells women to dress modestly, not show their charms, but there's dispute about the bit on covering your bosoms, whether or not it points to extending your HEAD coverings or coverings in general....

also, things were quite different around the time of Fatima (ra), Aisha (ra), etc. a lot of things were done back then, does that mean nothing should've changed, and we should do everything exactly as they did? as far as I can see, religion is not about blindly copying those who practiced it before... it should come from the heart...so in itself I see that as weak reasoning.

about covering yourself up, I agree all women should do so because it shows self respect! but how that relates to the head covering could be argued.... what about those women I mentioned, who cover their heads, but wear tight jeans etc? are they any more precious than those who dress modestly but don't cover their heads? it's all relative.....
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shahrazad
08-14-2008, 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by Janaan
First as a disclaimer - I think hijab is pushed too hard on new converts, to the detriment of other things. Very few people offer to teach the converts how to pray, or make sure they know the integrals of fasting, etc. It's usually hijab, hijab, change your name, hijab, get married, hijab hijab hijab. Well, at least that's from my own experience and observation of other converts.

Ok, now that I've said that:


Hijab should be worn soley for the pleasure of Allah (swt), because Allah (swt) commands it. The Qur'an says that we should be known as muslims, and covering one's hair is a part of that. That's the traditional interpretation. That's how it's been for most of muslim history. That's how the vast majority of scholars throughout our history have interpreted our sacred texts.

There are plenty of secondary reasons people give, but in the end, as muslims our purpose is to submit to Allah (swt). If Allah (swt) commands it, you do it. So I'd say don't worry about all the other justifications. Look into what Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saws) have to say about it. If they say to wear it, then do it.

http://www.muhajabah.com/whyhijab.htm
I agree that people focus a bit too much on the superficial things when talking to converts! personally, I might decide to cover my hair later on, but I really need it to be for the right reasons- for pleasing Allah, not for pleasing myself or other people. I am tempted to do it for the wrong reasons, the identity/image thing i.e. being recognised as Muslim, gaining respect, and being harassed less. it seems like a lot of people do it more for the secondary reasons, those superficial things, and it bothers me that they are trying to drag me into that sort of religious practice. I will have to take my time, study the Qur'an in more depth and ask Allah what's best... for me, there's no other way.
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chacha_jalebi
08-14-2008, 07:54 PM
well no, from my research, the Qur'an is not so explicit about HEAD covering... depends on the interpretation. it tells women to dress modestly, not show their charms, but there's dispute about the bit on covering your bosoms, whether or not it points to extending your HEAD coverings or coverings in general....
well yes actually :D

surah an nur v31 waqul lil muminaati... it says

And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings (khimars) over their bosoms (jaybs)

their is no dispute, the actual word used it juyoobihinna meanin bosoms!

surah al ahzaab...
O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad) That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed.
their outer garments refers to the jilbabb innaay

and some hadiths ....

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: I know (about) the Hijab (the order of veiling of women) more than anybody else. Ubay ibn Ka'b used to ask me about it. Allah's Apostle became the bridegroom of Zaynab bint Jahsh whom he married at Medina. After the sun had risen high in the sky, the Prophet invited the people to a meal. Allah's Apostle remained sitting and some people remained sitting with him after the other guests had left. Then Allah's Apostle got up and went away, and I too, followed him till he reached the door of 'Aisha's room. Then he thought that the people must have left the place by then, so he returned and I also returned with him. Behold, the people were still sitting at their places. So he went back again for the second time, and I went along with him too. When we reached the door of 'Aisha's room, he returned and I also returned with him to see that the people had left. Thereupon the Prophet hung a curtain between me and him and the Verse regarding the order for (veiling of women) Hijab was revealed. [Muslim]

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Prophet said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a khimaar Sunnan Abu Dawud 2:641


also, things were quite different around the time of Fatima (ra), Aisha (ra), etc. a lot of things were done back then, does that mean nothing should've changed, and we should do everything exactly as they did? as far as I can see, religion is not about blindly copying those who practiced it before... it should come from the heart...so in itself I see that as weak reasoning
its not blind copyin, i jus used it as a example, like these people were role models innay, and no the religion cant change, society does change, but the religion cant change, otherwise it would just be shambles, shambles i tell you:p

about covering yourself up, I agree all women should do so because it shows self respect! but how that relates to the head covering could be argued.... what about those women I mentioned, who cover their heads, but wear tight jeans etc? are they any more precious than those who dress modestly but don't cover their heads? it's all relative.....
hijaab should be done from the inside 1st, then the outside :D so anyone wearin tight clothes needs to sort it out, innaay,


and sister check this hadiths! it kinda ends the topic off lol:D

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: Asma bint Abu Bakr, entered upon the Apostle of Allah while she was wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands. Sunnan Abu Dawud 32:4092
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chacha_jalebi
08-14-2008, 07:56 PM
and yes i agree about the convert thing

like to a convert you need to teach them the stuff like prayin, fastin, and manners and after teachin them that, they automatically will start wearin the hijaab, you cant force or pressurise newbies into anythin, it often works in the wrong way and many newbies feel afraid to question stuff, but they shouldnt bee
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shahrazad
08-14-2008, 08:08 PM
chacha_jalebi, I didn't mean to turn this into an argument about interpretation of the Qur'an. that's why I was specifically asking sisters for their reasons. but seems you are not aware of the difference in opinion, so I just wanted to make you aware of it. the way you choose to interpret is up to you, but it's not as explicit as you make it out to be.

from wikipedia :D :
"Although a minority in the Muslim community, scholars such as Javed Ahmed Ghamidi and Leila Ahmed argue for a more liberal approach to hijab. Among their arguments are that while some Quranic verses enjoin women in general to Qur'an 33:58–59. “draw their clothes around them a little to be recognized as believers and so that no harm will come to them.” and Qur'an 24:31. “guard their private parts... and drape a cover [khamr] over their breasts [when in the presence of strange men]”, they urge modesty but do not mention hijab.
Ghamidi believes that Qur'an mentions khamr or khumūr in 24:31 only as a 7th century Arabian dress, and gives no specific command for women to wear it. He argues that the context of verse “they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble”[Qur'an 33:59] indicates that women are directed to wear jalābib only in specific situations.[9][10]
Other verses do mention separation of men and women but they refer specifically to the wives of the prophet:
Abide still in your homes and make not a dazzling display like that of the former times of ignorance:(Qur'an 33:32–33)
And when ye ask of them [the wives of the Prophet] anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain.(Qur'an 33:53)"

it's not the word 'bosoms' that is disputed, it's the (head)covering....it could refer to any kind of cover.

I agree religion shouldn't change. but my whole point was that it's not always clear how much of what people do is religion, and how much of it is time- and place- specific, ie. tradition, culture. the two tend to merge, cultural practices may come to be justified through religion. maybe showing your hair was outrageous then, but what about now? there are plenty of other examples. flogging is not generally used as a punishment anymore, even though the Qur'an recommends flogging....times have changed....
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
08-14-2008, 08:20 PM
:sl:

I know you want answers specifically from sisters, but allow to me just comment on a few things.

it tells women to dress modestly, not show their charms,
If a woman's 'charm' does not consist of her hair, then why is it that we find women placing so much importance on it? The way it is cut, the length, the color, the style and more? Why are their so many hair salons (and why is it such a thriving business) if the hair of a woman had nothing to do with her beauty and 'charm'? Frankly, let me tell you as a brother, a woman's hair does a lot in attracting the attention of a male.

And for the reasoning behind the Hijab, I'll give you a different perspective than the traditional one just so you know that there are other wisdoms behind it as well. The Hijab is in fact a protection for the person observing it, and not just from unwanted male attraction as it is commonly stated etc. But in a different sense as well. The Hijab, like the beard is an identity, meaning that it to some extent automatically represents Islaam. The person keeping a beard or a sister observing the Hijab is known as Muslim. So lets say that Sister X used to lie at work to leave early. Then she started wearing the Hijab, and now she's not just representing herself, but Islaam as well. So because of the Hijab, she cannot lie because automatically her error in lying would get attributed to the religion because a representative of the religion is engaging in such a vice. So like this, she would refrain from other sins as well because her identity as a Muslim (because of the Hijab) would be at stake, not just herself personally.

To put it simply, it protects the person from the evil of themselves. It's like: "I observe the Hijab, how can I lie to this person?". Or for brothers, "I keep the beard, how can I now look at something haraam?".

I hope that made sense.

:w:
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S_87
08-14-2008, 08:20 PM
As muslims, we dont take an ayah from the Quran and conclude it ourselves all the time. We look at the sunnah, the hadeeths.. The command for zakah, salah etc for example is given in the Quran but for its details rulings etc we look at the hadeeth. The same goes for the ayahs you are referring to in the Quran. What was the reaction of the women? What were their circumstances? What did Muhammed :arabic5: have to say about the womans awrah...?
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chacha_jalebi
08-14-2008, 08:24 PM
lol ok my last post and then the sisters can give you their reasons

but lemme ask you, who cares what some javed or leila say lol, they are like every joe, fred and john! the thin we need to follow is the Prophet (saw) and then follow the way the sahaba (ra) understood the religion, because the Prophet (saw) told us they are the bestest of people, so by lookin at the way the sahaba followed islaam, all of the females sahabas covered their heads :D

so again its upto sister:D, follow the way of the sahaba or some next joe, sorry if i was rude or anythin :D boi boi
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Ansariyah
08-14-2008, 09:05 PM
Salam sis

To me as a Muslimah the hijab is an act of obedience to Allah and to his prophet (pbuh), Allah says in the Qur'an: `It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His messenger have decreed a matter that they should have an option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed in a plain error.' (S33:36).

Allah also said: 'And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things) and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc) and not to show off their adornment except what must (ordinarily) appear thereof, that they should draw their veils over their Juyubihinna.'(S24:31).

Allah (swt) says in the Qur'an: `O children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc) and as an adornment. But the raiment of righteousness, that is better.'(S7:26).

The above verses clearly show that it is Allah SWT Himself, Who commands me and u to wear the hijab, though that word is not used in the above verses. In fact, the term hijab means much more than the covering of the body; it refers to the code of modesty outlined in the verses quoted above.

Look at the expressions used: “Lower their gaze”, “be modest”, “not to display their adornment”, “draw the veils over their bosoms” “not to stamp their feet” etc.

It isobviously very clear to any thinking person what is meant by all the above expressions in the Holy Qur’an. Brother Cha cha also posted the Hadith.

I just want to warn u not Judge the sisters with the tight clothes and Hijab. The Prophet (saw) said : There will come a time when holding on to your Iman (belief) would be like holding on to hot coal".

Well that time is here...It's not easy to be Muslim and Mu'min all at the same time. But we are Striving. No one is perfect. You are not Perfect, I am not Perfect. If these sisters wear tight clothes, maybe they have better hearts than some who wear the Niqaab, Allahu Allam.

Ur right that there are many Culture-Worshipping Muslims, Allah guides n Misguides..but u...u have to answer for wat u do. So there are no excuses.

And Besides, you have a responsibility to ur own self, to learn ur deen and practise it. Wat others do is really not ur problem. Truth stands out clear from error”.

If u are going to ask me why "i" wear the Hijab, u'll have to ask me first, "why I am a Muslim"?:sunny:....I'm sure u understand wat im sayin.
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shahrazad
08-14-2008, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad
:sl:

I know you want answers specifically from sisters, but allow to me just comment on a few things.

If a woman's 'charm' does not consist of her hair, then why is it that we find women placing so much importance on it? The way it is cut, the length, the color, the style and more? Why are their so many hair salons (and why is it such a thriving business) if the hair of a woman had nothing to do with her beauty and 'charm'? Frankly, let me tell you as a brother, a woman's hair does a lot in attracting the attention of a male.

And for the reasoning behind the Hijab, I'll give you a different perspective than the traditional one just so you know that there are other wisdoms behind it as well. The Hijab is in fact a protection for the person observing it, and not just from unwanted male attraction as it is commonly stated etc. But in a different sense as well. The Hijab, like the beard is an identity, meaning that it to some extent automatically represents Islaam. The person keeping a beard or a sister observing the Hijab is known as Muslim. So lets say that Sister X used to lie at work to leave early. Then she started wearing the Hijab, and now she's not just representing herself, but Islaam as well. So because of the Hijab, she cannot lie because automatically her error in lying would get attributed to the religion because a representative of the religion is engaging in such a vice. So like this, she would refrain from other sins as well because her identity as a Muslim (because of the Hijab) would be at stake, not just herself personally.

To put it simply, it protects the person from the evil of themselves. It's like: "I observe the Hijab, how can I lie to this person?". Or for brothers, "I keep the beard, how can I now look at something haraam?".

I hope that made sense.

:w:
I believe that hair must be attractive to men, and it does have a lot to do with a woman's 'charm'.... but what about their faces? women tend to worry a lot about that too. there are plenty of beauty salons dedicated to various kinds of skin treatments, hair removal, makeup etc... and surely hands and feet can also be charming (maybe to a lesser degree). also I think it depends on the male in question...some are more concerned with hair, others with eyes, etc...I imagine that it's the same kind of thing as different women being attracted to different features of a man. plus if a woman is really beautiful, no hijab can really hide it...

I agree with your explanation of hijab as protection and identity, and as making someone a representative of Islam. I never thought of it quite like that, and yes it does make sense how that could help one become a better Muslim :)
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shahrazad
08-14-2008, 09:16 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
lol ok my last post and then the sisters can give you their reasons

but lemme ask you, who cares what some javed or leila say lol, they are like every joe, fred and john! the thin we need to follow is the Prophet (saw) and then follow the way the sahaba (ra) understood the religion, because the Prophet (saw) told us they are the bestest of people, so by lookin at the way the sahaba followed islaam, all of the females sahabas covered their heads :D

so again its upto sister:D, follow the way of the sahaba or some next joe, sorry if i was rude or anythin :D boi boi

I do think we should use all available info, absorb it and think about it, question it and THEN make up our minds... these are scholars who probably have more knowledge than you or I... so personally I at least try to understand different points of view, because things are not always as simple as they may seem...

as for the argument that the female sahabas covered their heads so we should follow, I'm not so sure. I would rather follow Allah, because his advice is timeless and universal... the female sahabas may have covered their heads as part of tradition, independently of religion- they may have done so before they were Muslim. that's why I'm more concerned with the Qur'an as literal word of God... rather than with what was done and said by people back then. but at the mo I'm still confused about which interpretation to stick with, I guess I'll figure it out with time...and no you weren't rude :D
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UmmSqueakster
08-14-2008, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by shahrazad
that's why I'm more concerned with the Qur'an as literal word of God... rather than with what was done and said by people back then. but at the mo I'm still confused about which interpretation to stick with, I guess I'll figure it out with time...and no you weren't rude :D

Be careful that you don't slip into the Qur'an-only heresy. Allah (swt) did not just throw the book down and say "Memorize this, you'll have a test on it all next Friday." No, He revealed it over a 23 year period to the Prophet Muhammad (saws) who was our teacher. This teacher taught us how to best apply this book, and we find his lessons in the hadith. The female sahaba covered their hair because that is what the Prophet (saws) taught them.

The path of Allah (swt) has been well trodden by millions over the last 14 centuries. Why not walk that path first before you go off to places that are less well known?
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chacha_jalebi
08-14-2008, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by shahrazad

as for the argument that the female sahabas covered their heads so we should follow, I'm not so sure. I would rather follow Allah, because his advice is timeless and universal... the female sahabas may have covered their heads as part of tradition, independently of religion- they may have done so before they were Muslim. that's why I'm more concerned with the Qur'an as literal word of God... rather than with what was done and said by people back then. but at the mo I'm still confused about which interpretation to stick with, I guess I'll figure it out with time...and no you weren't rude :D
Narrated Umm Salama Hind bint Abi Umayya, Ummul Mu'minin: When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments. Sunnan Abu Dawud 32:4090

Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba: 'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."
Sahih Bukhari 6:60:282

after the ayahs were revealed they decided to cover lol

inshallah you will understand the correct way, bless you sister for seekin knowlegde :D
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IceQueen~
08-14-2008, 09:28 PM
When looking for answers in Islam obviously you want to be guided to the correct path, and what is the correct path? It is Allah's path or what He has ordered, prohibited etc.

Isn't that what we all want from this life? What Allah has called for us 'Islam'? Being a 'Muslim' means one who follows Islam, one who submits to Allah, and lives life how He has advised us to.

It follows then that when we want the answer to an issue we want the correct answer -that is what Allah has to say about that because that is the only thing in which there is no doubt. Isn't that what being a Muslim means?

To follow correct Guidance we need to look at our sources. Allah has sent the Quran in which He has made clear how He wants us to behave and live in the best way.

To understand or know the correct interpretation of the Quran we need to see what the Messenger of Allah authentically had to say about it as Allah has Guided us to do so in the Quran many times in saying: Obey Allah and His Messenger

Anything unsupported by these two sources then there is no base for such and as such we cannot take them as part of our Islam, since to do so would be adding to Allah's way what Allah did not add...

I'm saying all this because in modern times lots of 'new' interpretations of the Quran etc have come about fed by peoples' desires rather than correct understanding, or sincerety in following what God has given us.
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Danah
08-14-2008, 09:31 PM
hijab is not covering only head, it is dressing modestly for all the parts of the body. As you said sis what is the point of covering head while wearing tight jens, its like doing nothing. the same as covering the face with niqab and wearing eye make up, actually these actions are nullified the main purposes of hijab or even make it worse.

If you really wanna be in the right track you have to take your actions based on what was told by the Quran and Sunnah not from the people around you, because you will not always someone that you can consider as an example for you.

it is right that hijab is provide the woman with safty but it also one of Allah orders to us and thats why I wear it....alhumdulilah
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shahrazad
08-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by Yanoorah
Salam sis

To me as a Muslimah the hijab is an act of obedience to Allah and to his prophet (pbuh), Allah says in the Qur'an: `It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His messenger have decreed a matter that they should have an option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed in a plain error.' (S33:36).

Allah also said: 'And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things) and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc) and not to show off their adornment except what must (ordinarily) appear thereof, that they should draw their veils over their Juyubihinna.'(S24:31).

Allah (swt) says in the Qur'an: `O children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc) and as an adornment. But the raiment of righteousness, that is better.'(S7:26).

The above verses clearly show that it is Allah SWT Himself, Who commands me and u to wear the hijab, though that word is not used in the above verses. In fact, the term hijab means much more than the covering of the body; it refers to the code of modesty outlined in the verses quoted above.

Look at the expressions used: “Lower their gaze”, “be modest”, “not to display their adornment”, “draw the veils over their bosoms” “not to stamp their feet” etc.

It isobviously very clear to any thinking person what is meant by all the above expressions in the Holy Qur’an. Brother Cha cha also posted the Hadith.

I just want to warn u not Judge the sisters with the tight clothes and Hijab. The Prophet (saw) said : There will come a time when holding on to your Iman (belief) would be like holding on to hot coal".

Well that time is here...It's not easy to be Muslim and Mu'min all at the same time. But we are Striving. No one is perfect. You are not Perfect, I am not Perfect. If these sisters wear tight clothes, maybe they have better hearts than some who wear the Niqaab, Allahu Allam.

Ur right that there are many Culture-Worshipping Muslims, Allah guides n Misguides..but u...u have to answer for wat u do. So there are no excuses.

And Besides, you have a responsibility to ur own self, to learn ur deen and practise it. Wat others do is really not ur problem. Truth stands out clear from error”.

If u are going to ask me why "i" wear the Hijab, u'll have to ask me first, "why I am a Muslim"?:sunny:....I'm sure u understand wat im sayin.
I agree that hijab is about the code of modesty, not only about covering the body. a woman can be flirty, demanding attention without showing any of their body..."stamping feet" is such an appropriate way to describe it.

and yes it would be wrong to judge the way other people practice their religion, because in the end it's about free will and it's really none of my business. I was just curious as to their possible reasons for continuing to cover their heads when other things are visible. also, these are just surface things...someone who doesn't cover their head, or someone who does but decides to display other parts of their body, may actually be adhering to the code of modesty more than someone covered from head to toe....like you said, they may have better hearts :)

it's not that I'm looking to judge...I have been paying a lot of attention to these things since converting, I guess because I'm trying to see where I would fit into a Muslim community...I share my faith with every Muslim I encounter on the streets, bus, in uni, etc but does that mean there's also a shared understanding or some like-mindedness? ....that kind of thing...
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SixTen
08-14-2008, 09:46 PM
, but I've done enough research to know that there are many different interpretations of the verses in the Qur'an that deal with cloaks and coverings...and that it's not as simple as "Allah told all women to cover their heads", that's just 1 interpretation.
Here is where you are kind of wrong. It isn't just any interpretation. For, if we practiced Islam selectivly on interpretations - disregarding its authority, accuracy or integrity - then everyone will have a very different Islam to everyone else.

Hence, you must go for the more authentic, interpretations. Infact, you have chosen to follow a very very very minute minority, the interpretation is seen as void by all past respectable scholars. You have disregarded interpretations, of those who are seen as the best muslims to exist - but took the interpretation of average Joe.

When you do this, you can get interpretations to permit homosexuality - fornication - freemixing and so fourth. This isn't hypothetical, it exists today.

So in the end, on this issue itself, I have to give my stance that, you have taken a wrong interpretation. It contradicts all reliable and authentic interpretations and ignores the sunnah.

I am not going to, bother you if you wear it or not, or judge you on the issue. But, whether you choose to wear it or not - thats 1 thing - but you should not take a very innaccurate, unauthentic interpretation - then deem that covering head is not islamic - because your opinion, which holds no water, says so. If that makes sense?

Kind of like, if a muslim wants to be gay, its none of my business. But, its only a problem, when the guy starts going around telling people Islam accepts homosexuality - based on dodgy interpretations by X and Y.

I understand, maybe you are not ready to wear the hijaab, but it isn't the smartest thing to start to get into a debate with muslims if hijaab is compulsory. Those who deem it to be, hold the upper hand greatly - if you just look at the scholars backing them up. Not just an opinion sister, its a consensus.
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shahrazad
08-14-2008, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by Janaan
Be careful that you don't slip into the Qur'an-only heresy. Allah (swt) did not just throw the book down and say "Memorize this, you'll have a test on it all next Friday." No, He revealed it over a 23 year period to the Prophet Muhammad (saws) who was our teacher. This teacher taught us how to best apply this book, and we find his lessons in the hadith. The female sahaba covered their hair because that is what the Prophet (saws) taught them.

The path of Allah (swt) has been well trodden by millions over the last 14 centuries. Why not walk that path first before you go off to places that are less well known?
you're right, I have been focusing on the Qur'an maybe a little too much... it's just that I read a few things claiming that there are some hadith that are not to be trusted, the chains of transmission too weak. I figured the Qur'an is protected by Allah and will never be distorted... so I've been relying on that. but of course there are some truths in the hadith...I will have to look into it more...
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shahrazad
08-14-2008, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by SixTen
Here is where you are kind of wrong. It isn't just any interpretation. For, if we practiced Islam selectivly on interpretations - disregarding its authority, accuracy or integrity - then everyone will have a very different Islam to everyone else.

Hence, you must go for the more authentic, interpretations. Infact, you have chosen to follow a very very very minute minority, the interpretation is seen as void by all past respectable scholars. You have disregarded interpretations, of those who are seen as the best muslims to exist - but took the interpretation of average Joe.

When you do this, you can get interpretations to permit homosexuality - fornication - freemixing and so fourth. This isn't hypothetical, it exists today.

So in the end, on this issue itself, I have to give my stance that, you have taken a wrong interpretation. It contradicts all reliable and authentic interpretations and ignores the sunnah.

I am not going to, bother you if you wear it or not, or judge you on the issue. But, whether you choose to wear it or not - thats 1 thing - but you should not take a very innaccurate, unauthentic interpretation - then deem that covering head is not islamic - because your opinion, which holds no water, says so. If that makes sense?

Kind of like, if a muslim wants to be gay, its none of my business. But, its only a problem, when the guy starts going around telling people Islam accepts homosexuality - based on dodgy interpretations by X and Y.

I understand, maybe you are not ready to wear the hijaab, but it isn't the smartest thing to start to get into a debate with muslims if hijaab is compulsory. Those who deem it to be, hold the upper hand greatly - if you just look at the scholars backing them up. Not just an opinion sister, its a consensus.
hold the phone!! I never said I had chosen to agree with the interpretation of those who say hijab doesn't involve covering the head. I was just drawing attention to the fact that there are different opinions on the matter. I think I've emphasised that I'm a newbie to Islam, still trying to understand all the reasoning behind this practice, and just looking for some input.

everything is interpretation, isn't it? what you call authentic interpretation may be different to the next person's idea of authentic interpretation. and no, I have not chosen to agree with any interpretation of any average Joe (although the people I mentioned were not average Joes...). you see their interpretations as wrong, that is fine. that is YOUR opinion and belief, shared by many, and no one was trying to take it away from you. I am not even taking sides, I may end up agreeing with you, but currently I am undecided on the matter.

I am not debating anything. like I said in my earlier post, I really didn't intend for this to become an argument about interpretation of the Qur'an. I just brought up these alternative points of view so that I could get some alternative answers to my question "why do Muslim women wear headcoverings?"...ie. rather than just "because Allah tells us to", sisters could explain to me their personal experiences of how wearing it gave them more faith or strength and how that came about....

the aggression in your reply has upset me. if you had read my posts more carefully, you'd see that I'm not trying to defend any particular point of view, nor to debate anything, let alone to say that wearing hijab is un-Islamic... I thought I made it clear that I was looking for any personal reasons sisters may have for covering their heads, it was not some kind of attack on those who do, I apologise if it came across like that :(
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SixTen
08-15-2008, 10:24 AM
My post, was trying to be as far away from being offensive/aggressive - sorry if it came out that way. I hoped it went better with you, as I did state I am neither having a go at you for not wearing it, nor am I judging you negativly not for.

However, I cannot accept that wearing hijaab is JUST an opinion, it is a great consensus of opinions of too many great muslims - that your opinion is very weak in comparison. No matter what you or I think, will not change this fact.

Its a bit like, even though I may prefer - that their is no stoning to death in Islam - I cannot just take X and Y's opinion (you can find people who say stoning is not in Islam), which I find more adhering to my morale, and then ignore all the stronger evidence for it - even though I find it hard to take the concept as to why people have to be stoned to death. Do you understand what I am saying sister?

I may also wish that their was tolerance to homosexuals, or I myself may not agree say that woman have to be fully covered - but it still is wrong - if I was to take an opinion which would fit my morale - You have to go for that which has most evidence.


Basically, what I am saying is - stay away from opiniating on rulings based on your own morale - base it on authenticity. Do you know, just how many important muslims of the past you have to disregard to keep your view?

In short, do you have evidence that your view is stronger than that of the consensus? If not, why stick to it. That is the reason, sisters wear it - they see it as a command from God. Whether they feel secure, or otherwise - is irrelevant on the issue of wearing. Even if they hated to wear it, was uncomfortable, etc, they would still be required to wear it under their belief.

Hope that clears things up.
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julie sarri
08-15-2008, 11:01 AM
:sl: I am a revert and i really love wearing the hijab i wear the khimar which is long and doesn't need to be pined in place i prefer it because it covers more of me i read up on islam for about 6 months maybe more before reverting i researchd all the hadiths i could fine on hijab most of them have been mentioned already and they all strong good hadiths the Quran the sunnah and the hadiths all work together and back each other up.the longer you study islam you will learn which compilers of hadiths are good i always like bukhari or Muslim but thats just me i found the more my Eemaan became stronger i felt the need to wear the khimar the women at the time of the prophet i.e his wives did cover and they were very righteous and Allah [swt] was pleased with there fore i like to copy there ways so insha'Allah Allah may be pleased with me also
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Nawal89
08-15-2008, 11:33 AM
Sis please take your time with hijab inshaAllah. I mentioned already before in another thread, hijab comes with Iman.

I wear my hijab because I believe thats What Allah commanded the believing women to do. Allah sent down the verse of hijab, and the sahaabiyyat, who had the best understanding of Islam, covered their heads.

May Allah guide you and Bless you sis. Ameen.
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