PDA

View Full Version : Beating your wife



Thinker
08-17-2008, 01:01 PM
Hi,

I have copied and pasted a posting below from another thread which was agreed to be off-topic in that thread.

I was in response to a posting from a man about beating his wife.

The below quotes appear to suggest that the Qur'an supports the suggestion that husbands are allowed to beat their wives.

Please tell me this is not true?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Here is some information from IslamQA

Quote:
With regard to hitting one’s wife, this is not the first choice of ways to discipline her. First of all one should exhort and advise her. If that does not work, then (the husband) should forsake her in bed [i.e., not have conjugal relations with her]. If that does not work, then he may hit her, but not severely, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning);

“As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great” [al-Nisaa’ 4:34].

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you are those who are the best to their wives, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

Quote:
If a woman rebels against her husband and disobeys his commands, then he should follow this method of admonishing her, forsaking her in bed and hitting her. Hitting is subject to the condition that it should not be harsh or cause injury. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: this means that it should not cause pain.

‘Ata’ said: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, what is the kind of hitting that is not harsh? He said, Hitting with a siwaak and the like. [A siwaak is a small stick or twig used for cleaning the teeth - Translator]

The purpose behind this is not to hurt or humiliate the woman, rather it is intended to make her realize that she has transgressed against her husband’s rights, and that her husband has the right to set her straight and discipline her.


Taken from >
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=41199&ln=eng
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=3347&ln=eng
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Abdu-l-Majeed
08-17-2008, 01:03 PM
Is the word "to beat up" a good word for what is quoted below?

‘Ata’ said: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, what is the kind of hitting that is not harsh? He said, Hitting with a siwaak and the like. [A siwaak is a small stick or twig used for cleaning the teeth - Translator]
Reply

qassy!
08-17-2008, 01:11 PM
This is wrong. How can people beat up there wifes? Touch your wife in this country, and you will never see your kids again!

EDIT: I highly doubt, that in the Quran it says your allowed to :)
Reply

Abdu-l-Majeed
08-17-2008, 01:20 PM
My dear brother in Islam qassy,

The Qur'an did allow the husband to make his wife realize that she did something wrong. but, may Allah have mercy upon you, we see that it is the last resort. They first talk to each, try to find a solution, then he forsakes the bed, and something in a range of a siwak hit is the last resort. Have you ever had a siwak in your hand?
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Thinker
08-17-2008, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by Abdu-l-Majeed
Is the word "to beat up" a good word for what is quoted below?
The man in question was asking how many times he should 'beat' his wife with a stick!
Reply

qassy!
08-17-2008, 01:25 PM
Im sorry but I dont understand what siwak is, I googled it and it says its a miswak yes? That's just a wooden stick.

now

Every website, I have visited has its own interpretation of the Quran, and I am not going to give examples of as it would cause an argument.

Just because one souce says you can beat your wife, doesnt mean its allowed, because like i said every website has its own interpretation.

If your wife isint listing to u, I dont think you should take the eduacted apprrach and not beat her, because beating somone doesnt make them listen to you, it just maks them scared of you
Reply

Thinker
08-17-2008, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by Abdu-l-Majeed
My dear brother in Islam qassy,

The Qur'an did allow the husband to make his wife realize that she did something wrong. but, may Allah have mercy upon you, we see that it is the last resort. They first talk to each, try to find a solution, then he forsakes the bed, and something in a range of a siwak hit is the last resort. Have you ever had a siwak in your hand?

Does the Qur'an allow a wife to beat her husband when he does something wrong?
Reply

qassy!
08-17-2008, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Does the Qur'an allow a wife to beat her husband when he does something wrong?
Very good question, or your children or can you beat up the cook at the restaurant who gave you wife food poisoning ? All my life everyone has told me Islam is a calm, simple and violent free religion.
Reply

Abdu-l-Majeed
08-17-2008, 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
The man in question was asking how many times he should 'beat' his wife with a stick!
The man in question obviously isn't a learned person.

Im sorry but I dont understand what siwak is, I googled it and it says its a miswak yes? That's just a wooden stick.

now

Every website, I have visited has its own interpretation of the Quran, and I am not going to give examples of as it would cause an argument.

Just because one souce says you can beat your wife, doesnt mean its allowed, because like i said every website has its own interpretation.

If your wife isint listing to u, I dont think you should take the eduacted apprrach and not beat her, because beating somone doesnt make them listen to you, it just maks them scared of you
My dear akhi,

A siwak or miswak is a small wooden stick which can be used for cleaning your teeth. You can throw a bunch of it at someone, it wouldn't hurt. Obviously, the matter isn't about using force and making someone realize something by force.
Reply

The_Prince
08-17-2008, 01:47 PM
do people read what they want to see? i dont know. maybe some of you need eye glasses. the source that is quoted says nothing about beating your wife up. the source says you can hit her, hitting is not beating. and they clearly say the hit shouldnt cause her HARM OR INJURY, no bruising. it must be done lightly at best with a siwak stick which is small and doesnt even hurt. this ruling comes from the prophet Muhammad himself.

so plz if your quoting something read what they actually say, dont read what you want them to say and then twist what theyre actually saying.

where in the source you quoted does it say a man can beat his wife up, slap her, punch her, and etc etc. where????? oh wait it doesnt! go get eye glasses.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
08-17-2008, 01:54 PM
So can a woman hit her husband when he's done something wrong?
Reply

qassy!
08-17-2008, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
do people read what they want to see? i dont know. maybe some of you need eye glasses. the source that is quoted says nothing about beating your wife up. the source says you can hit her, hitting is not beating. and they clearly say the hit shouldnt cause her HARM OR INJURY, no bruising. it must be done lightly at best with a siwak stick which is small and doesnt even hurt. this ruling comes from the prophet Muhammad himself.

so plz if your quoting something read what they actually say, dont read what you want them to say and then twist what theyre actually saying.

where in the source you quoted does it say a man can beat his wife up, slap her, punch her, and etc etc. where????? oh wait it doesnt! go get eye glasses.

Thank you for your sarcasm, and I know what the source is saying.
Reply

Abdu-l-Majeed
08-17-2008, 01:57 PM
@ The Prince:

You're right, akhi. We should know that the Islam Q&A stuff doesn't change the wording of the question, and that's why the word "beat" stays there.

@ Whatsthepoint:

Allah knows best, I'd ask: do a man and a woman understand a hit equally?
Reply

Whatsthepoint
08-17-2008, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Abdu-l-Majeed
Allah knows best, I'd ask: do a man and a woman understand a hit equally?
Depends on every individual.
Reply

qassy!
08-17-2008, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by Abdu-l-Majeed
Allah knows best, I'd ask: do a man and a woman understand a hit equally?
What makes you think any of the them understand a hit? Hitting someone doesn't necessarily make them understand, but it will make them scared of you. Its like saying, when my sister gets married of and I found out the husband has been "hiting" her just because she doesnt do the things he saying. The husband would die the next day. Your wife is not your slave
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
08-17-2008, 02:08 PM
:sl:

Old topic, discussed on this forum many times before. Please refer to the following:

http://www.islamicboard.com/6693-post2.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...e-beating.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/589979-post79.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/590471-post86.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/591600-post98.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/592106-post101.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/592835-post105.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/593004-post108.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/593014-post110.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/593828-post134.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/593855-post135.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/594657-post147.html
Reply

Thinker
08-17-2008, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
the source says you can hit her, hitting is not beating.
I am sure my wife will be much relieved to know that I am only allowed to hit her, not beat her!!! Amazing, absolutely amazing!!!
Reply

Abdu-l-Majeed
08-17-2008, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
I am sure my wife will be much relieved to know that I am only allowed to hit her, not beat her!!! Amazing, absolutely amazing!!!
So you hit your wife that hard? Al hamdu lillah, Islam isn't like that.

If you want to discuss this matter in the light of Islam, understand as Islam defines it, not as you define it, OK? ;)
Reply

youngsister
08-17-2008, 02:33 PM
:sl:
Hitting your wife to make her realise that she is wrong?
LoL Thats the worst thing you can do once you raise your hand say goodbye to your marriage, thats the worst thing you can ever do and in Islam *wife beating* aint allowed. Common sense..:w:
Reply

Abdu-l-Majeed
08-17-2008, 02:37 PM
:wasalamex

My respected sister,

where does it say one has to beat his wife?

I think we should finish this thread as everyone wants to reply, but the topic has already been discussed as I see.
Reply

Thinker
08-17-2008, 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Abdu-l-Majeed
:wasalamex
I think we should finish this thread as everyone wants to reply, but the topic has already been discussed as I see.
I am sure that everything has already been discussed in which case we might as well not discuss anythingh further as it's already been discussed!!

I am a new member to this forum and I am reading through old topics getting myself up to date. I am interested in Islam but I want to know whether it has answers to all the questions particularly the hard questions. To say it shouldn't be discussed because it's already been discussed or as someone else said (something to the effect) if I am interested go away and read all the other posts to me smacks of trying to 'brush something under the carpet.' I have consistently said that I am here to learn and am careful to treat everybody with respect and to not offend anybody. I am reading all the back posts but I must also be able to ask questions when I come across something which poses a question.
Reply

جوري
08-17-2008, 02:52 PM
courtsey of br. Noname

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...tml#post711125


| Home Page | Email | LIVE Broadcasts | Order Tapes, Videos & CDs | EZ-Islam |
| Free Quran |
Author:
Br. Estes

RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"


Question:
Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)

Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.

Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.

Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.

Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.

Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.




Transliteration
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.)
Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."

And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."

As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.

Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.

The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.

However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this makes it clear to her that he is most serious and this not a joke. Again, if she comes around then he is to let it go and not bother her about it. Finally, if she still insists on such lewdness and bad conduct, he is to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms that they are going to be heading for separation or even divorce unless she comes back to proper behavior. Again, if she complies, then he should not bring it up and return to the bed with her.
And of course, this is all in an effort to translate one short but powerful phrase from Arabic to English. The sources are quoted herein and there may be other interpretations but the only acceptable ones are those based on the teachings of the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
And as always, Allahu 'Alim (Allah is the Knower)

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.
34.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The understanding now is that some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

Now we can properly understand that Almighty God has commanded the men to provide for the women and allow them to keep all of their wealth, inheritance and income without demanding anything from them for support and maintenance. Additionally, if she should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she would cease this lewdness. If she should continue in this indecency, then he should no longer share the bed with her, and this would continue for a period of time. Finally, if she would repent then he would take up sharing the bed with her again.

And Allah is All Knowing of the meanings.
Reply

Abdu-l-Majeed
08-17-2008, 02:53 PM
Then please, if you are to learn, please start from the foundations of Islam. Don't you think that's more logic?
Reply

Danah
08-17-2008, 02:54 PM
I can see that there is still a big argument about beating and hitting
just to clarify things to everyone here

this is a zoomed in picture of the tool of HITTING ................



it is in the size of your tooth Brush and this tool is used for cleaning tooth as well
now you will realized whether it is beating or hitting
Reply

crayon
08-17-2008, 02:56 PM
No, ask as many questions as you want! It's just that so often the same topics are discussed over and over again and it just gets tiresome in the end. We give you the links to read.. If they answer your questions, great. If you still have questions about the matter or anything you've read, then please, ask away!:)

peace
Reply

جوري
08-17-2008, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by SAYA
I can see that there is still a big argument about beating and hitting
just to clarify things to everyone here

this is a zoomed picture of the tool of HITTING ................

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2...e191465vq7.jpg

it is in the size of your tooth Brush and this tool is used for cleaning tooth as well
now you will realized whether it is beating or hitting
shouldn't hit the wife at all--One shouldn't even with a small instrument humiliate their spouse.. we should live by the example of prophet Mohammed SAW.. he never struck any of his wives, even with a tool this small!

:w:
Reply

aamirsaab
08-17-2008, 03:03 PM
:sl:
Thread closed.

Issue has sufficienly been dealth with; links to existing threads have been given as well as a mulitude of answers to the question raised by the original poster.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-12-2012, 03:54 AM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-24-2009, 03:44 AM
  3. Replies: 53
    Last Post: 08-23-2009, 11:56 AM
  4. Replies: 174
    Last Post: 11-17-2007, 03:46 AM
  5. Replies: 27
    Last Post: 11-14-2007, 01:44 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!