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Keltoi
08-21-2008, 03:56 PM
I wasn't sure where to pose this question, so I chose comparative religion.

This is a question about faith and politics. American Christians see the issue of abortion as a primary concern. Evangelicals, in general, will not vote for a candidate who voices support for abortion rights. It usually takes precedence over other political issues.

My question is this: What is the Islamic stance on abortion? How important is the issue to Muslims politically? Theoretically, when the average Muslim steps into a voting booth, how important is the issue on deciding which candidate to vote for?
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Amadeus85
08-21-2008, 11:41 PM
Interesting post Keltoi.
Its true that in christian world, true christians dont vote for those who support legalizing abortion or legalizing homosexual relationships. Evangelical christians in USA are active in pro life movements and catholics bishops say not to vote on those who support anti christian things. John Kerry was even threatened not to get comunion for his abortion stance.
Meanwhile muslims especially in Europe are somehow forced to vote on those who support abortion (as well as homo marriages). Muslims in old continent vote mostly for those who arent harsh on immigration and multiculturalism, which is ussually Left. the right doesnt support legalizing abortion, but they are in same time more critical to immigration, and even called as islamophobes. Thats why muslims ussually vote for "lesser evil", like they did in last London elections, choosing massivly Ken Livingstone, gay and lesbian enthusiast and feminist supporter.
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Serving Islam
08-22-2008, 05:10 AM
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Originally Posted by Keltoi

My question is this: What is the Islamic stance on abortion? How important is the issue to Muslims politically? Theoretically, when the average Muslim steps into a voting booth, how important is the issue on deciding which candidate to vote for?
abortion is not allowed in Islam unless it is a matter of rape and incest, and if the pregnancy would threaten the life of the mother. other than the above mentioned cases, abortion is not permitted in Islam. Allah said:

Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin Qur'an 17:31

I hope this answers your question.

Salam
Serving Islam.
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Keltoi
08-22-2008, 09:40 AM
Originally Posted by Serving Islam
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.



abortion is not allowed in Islam unless it is a matter of rape and incest, and if the pregnancy would threaten the life of the mother. other than the above mentioned cases, abortion is not permitted in Islam. Allah said:

Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin Qur'an 17:31

I hope this answers your question.

Salam
Serving Islam.
So how important is the issue on a political level? Would you vote for a candidate who supported abortion rights?
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Pk_#2
08-22-2008, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
So how important is the issue on a political level? Would you vote for a candidate who supported abortion rights?
Wow, I didn't think that far, but then again I don't vote. :skeleton: :BeRightBack:
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Keltoi
08-22-2008, 10:00 AM
Originally Posted by Da'watul-Allaah
Wow, I didn't think that far, but then again I don't vote. :skeleton: :BeRightBack:
Do you not vote because you are too young or because you simply choose not to vote?

I know many Muslims choose not to vote.
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Pk_#2
08-22-2008, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Do you not vote because you are too young or because you simply choose not to vote?

I know many Muslims choose not to vote.
I choose to vote and then something comes up...:-[ Why don't they vote?

Hmm... :thumbs_up
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Keltoi
08-22-2008, 10:13 AM
Originally Posted by Da'watul-Allaah
I choose to vote and then something comes up...:-[ Why don't they vote?

Hmm... :thumbs_up
Yeah, I've been known to miss a few votes for the same reason.
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Pygoscelis
08-22-2008, 02:19 PM
Related question: Where in the bible does it forbid abortion? I know it says "thou shalt not murder" but is there anything more specific to abortion?
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Keltoi
08-23-2008, 04:02 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Related question: Where in the bible does it forbid abortion? I know it says "thou shalt not murder" but is there anything more specific to abortion?
Obviously abortion has always existed in one form or another, usually done by herbal means in the ancient world. While the Bible does not directly make use of the term "abortion" or the practice of killing an unborn child, there is enough information in the Bible to understand abortion is not God's will.

(Jeremiah 1:4-5) “Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying: ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you"

(Isaiah 49:1) “Listen, O coastlands, to me, and take heed, you peoples from afar! The Lord has called me from the womb; from the matrix of my mother He has made mention of my name”

These verses and others, from a Christian point of view, clearly show that human life, even while in development in the womb, is sacred.
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Serving Islam
08-23-2008, 04:17 AM
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Originally Posted by Keltoi
These verses and others, from a Christian point of view, clearly show that human life, even while in development in the womb, is sacred.
How about the life of the mother? Isn’t sacred too? So why should we not abort a fetus that has not come to life yet and let the mother die who could produce more children in the future??? I mean who gives the right to the mother to kill herself to save a child while her entire life is not belongs to her???

Do you mean to say that abortion in all cases is prohibited in Christianity?

Salam
Serving Islam.
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Keltoi
08-23-2008, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Serving Islam
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.



How about the life of the mother? Isn’t sacred too? So why should we not abort a fetus that has not come to life yet and let the mother die who could produce more children in the future??? I mean who gives the right to the mother to kill herself to save a child while her entire life is not belongs to her???

Do you mean to say that abortion in all cases is prohibited in Christianity?

Salam
Serving Islam.
All life is sacred. Your scenario about a mother's life being in danger if the pregnancy is carried through is one of those difficult ethical questions. Personally I believe the procedure of abortion should be an option in that situation. The primary concern for Christians, and I would hope Muslims as well, is the use of abortion as a form of birth control. The termination of unwanted pregnancy. Threats to the life of the mother make up a very small percentage of abortion cases. I don't think many Christians would blame the mother in those situations for choosing abortion over death.
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Whatsthepoint
08-23-2008, 06:21 PM
Keltoi, do protestants condone contraception?
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DAWUD_adnan
08-23-2008, 06:22 PM
Abortion is wrong. A life is a life. There's plenty of people that can't have kids, that would do anything to be blessed with a child.
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Tornado
08-23-2008, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by DAWUD_adnan
Abortion is wrong. A life is a life. There's plenty of people that can't have kids, that would do anything to be blessed with a child.
Refer to post #3 of this thread.
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Keltoi
08-23-2008, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Keltoi, do protestants condone contraception?
Most Protestant denominations don't have a major concern with family planning. Meaning methods to prevent fertilization. The Catholic Church rejects birth control by any method of course. The issue for Protestants is what happens to the fetus(which to a Christian IS a child) after fertilization.
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bewildred
08-23-2008, 06:30 PM
To answer Keltoi's question, I don't think that there are Islamic AND laïc countries. Since they use the Chari'aa in their ruling, abortion is considered as illegal and anyone who practises this act is susceptible to be punished by the law.
Since abortion is the result of some taboos such as zinah, adultery and incest, it's very rare to hear leaders give opinions about it.
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AntiKarateKid
08-23-2008, 11:29 PM
Timeout, see heres the problem with the Muslims answering so quickly on this thread.

I read a completely different answer than simply it is not allowed. There is a specific timetable for when it is allowed i believe. A point is mentioned int he Quran where the child gets it soul, before that it is permissible, after that is murder. There are other rules regarding this as it isnt so simple, this is simply off the top of my head.

So please, if you would like to know about abortion in Islam, please seek out scholars opinions and NOT random people on a forum. This is assuming your search is serious.
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Keltoi
08-24-2008, 05:00 AM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Timeout, see heres the problem with the Muslims answering so quickly on this thread.

I read a completely different answer than simply it is not allowed. There is a specific timetable for when it is allowed i believe. A point is mentioned int he Quran where the child gets it soul, before that it is permissible, after that is murder. There are other rules regarding this as it isnt so simple, this is simply off the top of my head.

So please, if you would like to know about abortion in Islam, please seek out scholars opinions and NOT random people on a forum. This is assuming your search is serious.
I wasn't so much looking for a religious ruling. I was more interested in individual Muslim perspectives on the issue, how important the issue is for them, and what if any impact it has on their political choices.
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AntiKarateKid
08-24-2008, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I wasn't so much looking for a religious ruling. I was more interested in individual Muslim perspectives on the issue, how important the issue is for them, and what if any impact it has on their political choices.
Keep in mind that individuals here may be speaking without knowledge of their religion. What matters is what the religion we believe in says, not our own opinions because they are subject to error and bias. God gives us truth, we follow it.

I may think today that during prayer we should be allowed to talk and joke etc but tomorrow when I read the words of scholars who have proof that Allah has forbidden such a thing from the Quran/hadith, i abandon it. Take what you hear here about Islam with a grain of salt until you see its proof.
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Keltoi
08-24-2008, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Keep in mind that individuals here may be speaking without knowledge of their religion. What matters is what the religion we believe in says, not our own opinions because they are subject to error and bias. God gives us truth, we follow it.

I may think today that during prayer we should be allowed to talk and joke etc but tomorrow when I read the words of scholars who have proof that Allah has forbidden such a thing from the Quran/hadith, i abandon it. Take what you hear here about Islam with a grain of salt until you see its proof.
Fair enough, but obviously each individual will have their own reactions and opinions on the matter. I'm interested in the average Muslim's gut reaction to the issue of abortion. Yes, that reaction will be largely based on their religious faith, but I know plenty of athiests that are against abortion on ethical and moral grounds.
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Serving Islam
08-24-2008, 11:47 PM
Bismillah: Assalamo ALikum.

Originally Posted by Keltoi
All life is sacred. Your scenario about a mother's life being in danger if the pregnancy is carried through is one of those difficult ethical questions. Personally I believe the procedure of abortion should be an option in that situation. The primary concern for Christians, and I would hope Muslims as well, is the use of abortion as a form of birth control. The termination of unwanted pregnancy. Threats to the life of the mother make up a very small percentage of abortion cases. I don't think many Christians would blame the mother in those situations for choosing abortion over death.
Islam agrees with you on this subject.

Salam
Serving Islam
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Serving Islam
08-25-2008, 02:25 AM
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

How about rape and incest, do Christians support abortion in these cases?

Salam
Serving Islam
Reply

Keltoi
08-25-2008, 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by Serving Islam
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

How about rape and incest, do Christians support abortion in these cases?

Salam
Serving Islam
I don't think it is a matter of "supporting" abortion in any particular circumstance, but cases of incest and rape, saving the life of a mother, etc are scenarios where ending a pregnancy can also be a moral or ethical option. Again, it is the practice of abortion as birth control that most Christians would object to.
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جوري
08-25-2008, 04:51 AM
This toopic has been answered before.. the answer is in chapter 2 suret Al-Baqara

وَالْوَالِدَاتُ يُرْضِعْنَ أَوْلاَدَهُنَّ حَوْلَيْنِ كَامِلَيْنِ لِمَنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُتِمَّ الرَّضَاعَةَ وَعلَى الْمَوْلُودِ لَهُ رِزْقُهُنَّ وَكِسْوَتُهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ لاَ تُكَلَّفُ نَفْسٌ إِلاَّ وُسْعَهَا لاَ تُضَآرَّ وَالِدَةٌ بِوَلَدِهَا وَلاَ مَوْلُودٌ لَّهُ بِوَلَدِهِ وَعَلَى الْوَارِثِ مِثْلُ ذَلِكَ فَإِنْ أَرَادَا فِصَالاً عَن تَرَاضٍ مِّنْهُمَا وَتَشَاوُرٍ فَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِمَا وَإِنْ أَرَدتُّمْ أَن تَسْتَرْضِعُواْ أَوْلاَدَكُمْ فَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذَا سَلَّمْتُم مَّا آتَيْتُم بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ {233}
[Pickthal 2:233] Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; (that is) for those who wish to complete the suckling. The duty of feeding and clothing nursing mothers in a seemly manner is upon the father of the child. No-one should be charged beyond his capacity. A mother should not be made to suffer because of her child, nor should he to whom the child is born (be made to suffer) because of his child. And on the (father's) heir is incumbent the like of that (which was incumbent on the father). If they desire to wean the child by mutual consent and (after) consultation, it is no sin for them; and if ye wish to give your children out to nurse, it is no sin for you, provide that ye pay what is due from you in kindness. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is Seer of what ye do.



This addresses extreme cases of illness or rape.. And Allah knows best.. I have seen this in a fatwa before but I can't be bothered to search for it now!

:w:
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Ibn Al Athar
09-01-2008, 05:53 AM
She is asking because for christians abortion and gay rights are a major issue. Most of the evangelical-christian fundamentalists will vote for somone based on their 'moral values' alone.

I think she wants to know how abortion and gay right issues effect how muslims vote.
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Fazl Ahmad
09-01-2008, 08:12 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
My question is this: What is the Islamic stance on abortion? How important is the issue to Muslims politically? Theoretically, when the average Muslim steps into a voting booth, how important is the issue on deciding which candidate to vote for?
Muslims are not allowed to "vote", because democracy is against the precepts of Islam. Legislation is the perogative of Allah alone.

Abortion is not at all permitted in Islam, only in certain rare circumstances where the mother's life will be in jeopardy if she delivers, or if the baby won't be able to survive due to some deformity. The Quran says very clearly: Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin (Holy Quran 17:31)

Abortion is very evil and selfish act, it is nothing but murder. The fact that is is practiced commonly today is a sign that we are in very bleak times, where there is no respect for human life, and maximum freedom must prevail, even at the cost of the most innocent. This is very disturbing situation. I do not know how anyone, Muslim or Christian, could ever justify abortion.
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Keltoi
09-01-2008, 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by Ibn Al Athar
She is asking because for christians abortion and gay rights are a major issue. Most of the evangelical-christian fundamentalists will vote for somone based on their 'moral values' alone.

I think she wants to know how abortion and gay right issues effect how muslims vote.
I'm not a "she", but you are correct in what I was curious about. :D
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Keltoi
09-01-2008, 09:42 AM
Originally Posted by Fazl Ahmad
Muslims are not allowed to "vote", because democracy is against the precepts of Islam. Legislation is the perogative of Allah alone.

Abortion is not at all permitted in Islam, only in certain rare circumstances where the mother's life will be in jeopardy if she delivers, or if the baby won't be able to survive due to some deformity. The Quran says very clearly: Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin (Holy Quran 17:31)

Abortion is very evil and selfish act, it is nothing but murder. The fact that is is practiced commonly today is a sign that we are in very bleak times, where there is no respect for human life, and maximum freedom must prevail, even at the cost of the most innocent. This is very disturbing situation. I do not know how anyone, Muslim or Christian, could ever justify abortion.
So Muslims in general do not vote? I've heard this before, but I assumed that many Muslims do indeed vote.
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Malaikah
09-01-2008, 10:18 AM
Yes most Muslim do vote because they believe it is permissible (and rightly so).

To answer your question - abortion isn't a big issue in politics where I live. For me personally, I don't look at it based on the persons opinion in ONE issue, but rather holistically.

If it was a choose between someone who was anti-abortion and pro-war, and another person who was anti-war and pro-abortion, I'd go with the pro-abortion guy. Even though they both have their evils, one is considerably less so than the other.

But yes I imagine abortion would be a big issue for me.
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Fazl Ahmad
09-01-2008, 10:45 AM
Islamic ruling on democracy, elections, voting
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Malaikah
09-01-2008, 10:56 AM
There is a difference of opinion on whether it is permissible. Besides, this thread is not about the permissibility of voting.
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Uthman
09-01-2008, 11:06 AM
Originally Posted by Fazl Ahmad
I think you posted in the wrong thread akhee. I think it's this one you wanted:

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ou-muslim.html
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Malaikah
09-01-2008, 11:15 AM
Actually I think he posted what he meant to post.. what does your link have to do with this thread? :?
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Grace Seeker
10-04-2008, 06:35 PM
Judging from the many diverse answers it seems obvious that whatever the "official" stance of Islam (if there even is one) that there are many different interpretations of the right/obligation to vote and of the permissability or lack there of regarding abortions within the practicioners of Islam. (BTW, though not so far reflected in this thread, the same is true in Christian circles.) So, since none hear can speak for the whole of Islam, speaking for yourself, how would you respond to Keltoi's question. If abortion was a major political issue where you live and you could legally vote, would you vote and if so to what degree would the abortion issue influence your vote especially, as Malaikah proposed, in light of other important issues that might also be a part of the election?
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aamirsaab
10-04-2008, 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
... If abortion was a major political issue where you live and you could legally vote, would you vote and if so to what degree would the abortion issue influence your vote especially, as Malaikah proposed, in light of other important issues that might also be a part of the election?
It's difficult really. I mean whilst an abortion ruling/law would influence my vote, so too would any other changes. I'll examplify:

Party 1 manifesto;
Abortion is illegal
Prostitution is legal

Party 2 manifesto
Prostitution is illegal
Rapists have harsher sentences.


Basically, I wouldn't solely vote for one party just because of its views on abortion - I'd base my decision on the full manifesto (though, last time I voted, I didn't have any manifesto to go on, so took an educated guess: liberals FTW! [for the win]).

It's sort of like asking: would having strawberries in your cornetto make you buy a cornetto over any other ice cream product...The answer to that is: well, I do like strawberries, and having them on a cornetto would be really kick ass, but I also like choc ices and 99s (ice cream cones avec le flake), so whilst strawberries would be a factor to consider it wouldn't have 100% weighting on the decision making.
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