Woman wearing veil told to leave Italian museum

[islamirama]

These people should be told leave when they show up half-naked in our lands.


Woman wearing veil told to leave Italian museum

By Philip Pullella
Wed Aug 27


The head of one of Venice's most prestigious museums apologized on Wednesday to a Muslim woman asked to leave the building by a guard because she was wearing a veil over her face.

The episode, which has kindled controversy in the Italian media and arguments between centre-left and centre-right politicians, occurred on Sunday in Venice's Ca' Rezzonico museum, which houses 18th-century Venetian art.

"I'm sorry for what happened and if she ever wants to return to our museum, she will be more than welcome," director Filippo Pedrocco told Reuters by telephone from Venice.

The woman, visiting the museum with her husband and children, had cleared security when she entered the building.

When she reached the second floor, a room guard told her she must remove her "niqab," which leaves only the eyes visible, or leave.
"The room guard was over-zealous. He should not have done it. She already passed security and his only duty was to guarantee the safety of the artwork in his room," Pedrocco said.

The woman was believed to have been a member of a well-off family visiting Venice from Saudi Arabia or a Gulf state.

She refused to take off the veil and left the building, which faces Venice's Grand Canal and houses works by such 18th century Venetian masters as Giandomenico Tiepolo.

Italian anti-terrorism laws dating from the 1970s ban the wearing of face coverings in public but they are rarely enforced in cases of Islamic veils.
Italian media reported that the guard, who Pedrocco said worked part-time and was employed by an outside security firm, would be disciplined and risked being fired.

However, the guard, whose name was not disclosed, was hailed as a hero by some in the Veneto region, where there has been tension between long-time residents and Islamic immigrants.

Senator Roberto Castelli, a member of the anti-immigrant Northern League, asked the justice minister to make sure the guard was not disciplined or sacked "for doing his duty and making sure the law was respected."
Giancarlo Gentilini, deputy mayor of the city of Treviso north of Venice, said the guard should be "given an award and not punished."


(Editing by Andrew Dobbie)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080827/od_nm/italy_veil_odd_dc_1

[The_Prince]

:) yet were so tolerant and let them walk half naked in most of our countries, what a shame, its time we force all of them to wear hijabs like in Saudia and Iran.

[AhlaamBella]

:) yet were so tolerant and let them walk half naked in most of our countries, what a shame, its time we force all of them to wear hijabs like in Saudia and Iran.

I agree with the first part ofyour statement. But forcing someone to wear Hijab isn't the answer education is. If people understand why we wear Hijab they are more likely to accept it :)

[The_Prince]

I agree with the first part ofyour statement. But forcing someone to wear Hijab isn't the answer education is. If people understand why we wear Hijab they are more likely to accept it :)

i agree with you, but you know its nice to start being abit rough and forcing none-Muslims to comply with our ways, even if they dont agree with it.

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[AhlaamBella]

You can't make good Da'wah that way :)

[Tornado]

But she passed through security safely so obviously not a threat like anyone else there. I wonder why they did that then.

[crayon]

But she passed through security safely so obviously not a threat like anyone else there. I wonder why they did that then.

I guess the guard was just too trigger happy with the little responsibility he had.. The reactions of the rest of the community aren't too positive though...

[AntiKarateKid]

i agree with you, but you know its nice to start being abit rough and forcing none-Muslims to comply with our ways, even if they dont agree with it.

I'm afraid that's not the way the Prophet went about it.

And, it is by the mercy of Allah that you were gentle with them (O beloved Prophet), for if you had been stern and fierce of heart they would have dispersed from around about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult with them upon the conduct of affairs. And when you are resolved, then put your trust in Allah. Surely, Allah loves those who trust.

[qassy!]

NO NO NO NO
Don't apologize, she shouldn't be covering her face in the first place.
Flipping hell, what dont there women cover there face understand about security? Cover your head that fine but not the face.

[AhlaamBella]

NO NO NO NO
Don't apologize, she shouldn't be covering her face in the first place.
Flipping hell, what dont there women cover there face understand about security? Cover your head that fine but not the face.

If a sister wishes to cover her face, encourage her :) May Allah reward her for her efforts, Ameen

[qassy!]

If a sister wishes to cover her face, encourage her :) May Allah reward her for her efforts, Ameen

no in meckka its not allowed. WHy should i/we accept it? Its such a big issue in the UK, seriously i mean its not required in Islamic, you mento cover your head yeah? so why do the face, it really annoys me

[AhlaamBella]

seriously i mean its not required in Islamic,

Actually difference of opinion bro :) It makes sense to cover the face but in today's society it is very very very hard. I admire sisters who do so

[S_87]

NO NO NO NO
Don't apologize, she shouldn't be covering her face in the first place.
Flipping hell, what dont there women cover there face understand about security? Cover your head that fine but not the face.

how nice of you

and whats wrong with covering the face

and if it annoys you then thats too bad. Whether you like it or not it does have islamic relevance, at the least it is mustahab and most its waajib.
So whilst you may not personally like it dont you dare degrade those women who choose to wear it.

[qassy!]

how nice of you

and whats wrong with covering the face

and if it annoys you then thats too bad. Whether you like it or not it does have islamic relevance, at the least it is mustahab and most its waajib.
So whilst you may not personally like it dont you dare degrade those women who choose to wear it.

No its not isalmic, because its mekka its not allowed. Their just making a bad name for muslims.

[qassy!]

Actually difference of opinion bro :) It makes sense to cover the face but in today's society it is very very very hard. I admire sisters who do so

Well lets just say in ur opion u fink its isalmic, then why isint it alloowed in mekka?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

qassy! been fatwa shopping? find anything nice?

[qassy!]

qassy! been fatwa shopping? find anything nice?

err whats fatwa shopping?

[AhlaamBella]

Well lets just say in ur opion u fink its isalmic, then why isint it alloowed in mekka?

What on Earth are you talking about? All the sisters working in Masjid Al-Haraam wear Niqaab :)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

err whats fatwa shopping?

getting the opinions of apologetics to dismiss an established view

in this case the clearly approved view of niqaab


not a single madhaab or true imaam will dismiss the niqaab.

hence u fatwa shopping from minors

[S_87]

No its not isalmic, because its mekka its not allowed. Their just making a bad name for muslims.

in Makkah if you dont wear it youll have people telling you to wear it so try another one :rolleyes:

You can even get in trouble with the religious police for not wearing it. You may even get women coming to you and telling you to cover your face.

Do you mean in Ihraam by any chance ????

[AhlaamBella]

Do you mean in Ihraam by any chance ????

I think he does :)

[qassy!]

i dont what the Ihrram is but its to do with the covering the face, my dad went he said its not allowed, and i seen in the pictures on the internet none of the women are wearing it

getting the opinions of apologetics to dismiss an established view

in this case the clearly approved view of niqaab


not a single madhaab or true imaam will dismiss the niqaab.

hence u fatwa shopping from minors

bruv, if its not allowed in meckka why where it? Why not just where the head scarf instead? it makes people thnk of islam better and make people feal safer.

It really anoys me some women cant argue when they are asked to shown there face in airport secuirty.

[AhlaamBella]

i dont what the Ihrram is but its to do with the covering the face, my dad went he said its not allowed, and i seen in the pictures on the internet none of the women are wearing it

Brother, you're referring to when a sister is on Hajj. You're in a state of Ihraam Then you don't cover the face :). After you come out of Ihraam you shower, cut hair, nails etc :)

[S_87]

what are you talking about mr?
Even non muslims in the west know the majority of women in saudi seem to cover their face by law.
When you see pics of women there its not unusual to see something like this

if thats not covering the face, i dont know what is

[S_87]

It really anoys me some women cant argue when they are asked to shown there face in airport secuirty.

and this doesnt make sense.
Airport security are most co-operative with women in the niqab and have no problem if a woman shows to another woman. women in niqab-and i cant speak for all- but for the most part have no problem with this.

Infact i would applaud the airport security here in the UK for their respect to veiled women

[qassy!]

Brother, you're referring to when a sister is on Hajj. You're in a state of Ihraam Then you don't cover the face :). After you come out of Ihraam you shower, cut hair, nails etc :)

i guess im taking about Ihrram, the point im trying to make is. Already islamic has so much bad press, terrorism etc etc

When your on the train covering thr face your making people think wrong about islam

when your in the shop, you can understand there concern when they say take the face thing off for CCTV

I mean we need to teach people abot Islam and change their views not make then think wrong

and this doesnt make sense.
Airport security are most co-operative with women in the niqab and have no problem if a woman shows to another woman. women in niqab-and i cant speak for all- but for the most part have no problem with this.

Infact i would applaud the airport security here in the UK for their respect to veiled women

No they do, but why not quickly flash your face to who ever it is? Heathrow do what you said, but the point im trying to make is above.

[Güven]

It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: “The riders used to pass by us when we were with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in ihraam. When they came near, each of us would lower her jilbaab from her head over her face, and when they passed by we would uncover (our faces).”

Narrated by Abu Dawood, 1833; Ahmad, 24067


They are not allowed to cover their faces If they are in the ihraam(hajj)
but outside if a non mahram can see her, than she can cover her face aswell
thats what I heard :)

[qassy!]

I

They are not allowed to cover their faces If they are in the ihraam(hajj)
but outside if a non mahram can see her, than she can cover her face aswell
thats what I heard :)

jazaakalah somone cleared tht up

[AhlaamBella]

i guess im taking about Ihrram, the point im trying to make is. Already islamic has so much bad press, terrorism etc etc

When your on the train covering thr face your making people think wrong about islam

when your in the shop, you can understand there concern when they say take the face thing off for CCTV

I mean we need to teach people abot Islam and change their views not make then think wrong

I understand what you're saying. That's why I said it is so difficult to wear niqaab in this society

[crayon]

i guess im taking about Ihrram, the point im trying to make is. Already islamic has so much bad press, terrorism etc etc

When your on the train covering thr face your making people think wrong about islam

when your in the shop, you can understand there concern when they say take the face thing off for CCTV

I mean we need to teach people abot Islam and change their views not make then think wrong



No they do, but why not quickly flash your face to who ever it is? Heathrow do what you said, but the point im trying to make is above.

With your reasoning, should all women remove their headscarfs altogether? Should men shave their beards? Should we all change our names to less muslim sounding ones, perhaps into "Tom" or "Nicole"?

[qassy!]

With your reasoning, should all women remove their headscarfs altogether? Should men shave their beards? Should we all change our names to less muslim sounding ones, perhaps into "Tom" or "Nicole"?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Headscarff is fine, peope accpect that and people respect people who can do that, beareds are fine, no names are not fine. My point is is SECUIRTY and i thought you would understand that if you dont im not going to discuss any further

[S_87]

i guess im taking about Ihrram, the point im trying to make is. Already islamic has so much bad press, terrorism etc etc

When your on the train covering thr face your making people think wrong about islam

when your in the shop, you can understand there concern when they say take the face thing off for CCTV

I mean we need to teach people abot Islam and change their views not make then think wrong

so we have to educate them that veiled women are not threat. we dont remove who we are and what we believe in, we teach the people with wisdom and kindness.

No they do, but why not quickly flash your face to who ever it is? Heathrow do what you said, but the point im trying to make is above.

yes muslim women DO quickly flash their faces... infact whenever i have travelled the men themselves have always told me before i even get to them, that theres a woman show her if you want :) or, dont worry you dont have to remove it.
So people like you worrying about all this is slightly annoying because let me tell you, wearing the niqab is not easy, its not something a woman 'does for fun' so as a brother maybe you could read up on the niqab and at the least respect those who choose to wear it, infact respect those who wear the minimum of hijab because its not always easy

[doorster]

In Pakistan many a terrorist has gone about his murderous missions disguised as a veiled woman (Recently one terror leader even tried to escape an army siege of his den using that ruse but it was not his lucky day).

[AhlaamBella]

In Pakistan many a terrorist has gone about his murderous missions disguised as a veiled woman

And many terrorists are killing innocent people and calling themselves muslim. Shall we all stop being muslim?

[S_87]

In Pakistan many a terrorist has gone about his murderous missions disguised as a veiled woman (Recently one terror leader even tried to escape an army siege of his den using that ruse but it was not his lucky day).

whats your point? :)
Are all veiled women to be banned for their actions?

[qassy!]

No but veil is used to make islam look bad, why not just show ur face and where head scarf why do u need 2 go that extra?
By do that your

Making islaam look bad

which is already bad enough

but you cant educate about viel, because its not always used for the good,we all know about this part

[doorster]

Are you people the official censors of this site now? none but you are allowed to make an observation?

whats your point?

Point is clear enough (for those who want to understand it).

[qassy!]

Are you people the official censors of this site now? none but you are allowed to make an observation?

what???

[S_87]

No but veil is used to make islam look bad, why not just show ur face and where head scarf why do u need 2 go that extra?
By do that your

Making islaam look bad

which is already bad enough

but you cant educate about viel, because its not always used for the good,we all know about this part

you missed the point.
Some people deem the veil WAAJIB.in other words obligatory. Should they take off something they deem obligatory?
Should they give up what they believe in?

Islam is NOT made to look bad by veiled women. Most of us get about our business doing nothing. If you are talking about extremists that come in the news then did you look at them? the majority of them are wearing western clothes, and its them that give islam a bad name.

Everything can be used for good and bad. Should we ban everything?

why dont you at least read up on the veil then comment?

[S_87]

Are you people the official censors of this site now? none but you are allowed to make an observation?

Point is clear enough (for those who want to understand it).

oh i understand it, but its irrelevant dont you think?

a few men dressing up ...

[qassy!]

oh i understand it, but its irrelevant dont you think?

a few men dressing up ...

If you want to be stubborn be, if you dont want to understand it dont.

[doorster]

If you want to be stubborn be, if you dont want to understand it dont.

oi I don't need you answering for me!

Edit:

Errors Of Those Who Make The Face Veil Obligatory

[qassy!]

oi I don't need you answering for me!

the point i made she still understand it so its hacked me off

[AhlaamBella]

Ok brothers and sisters all calm down. Allah knows best. Please stop being so angry.

[qassy!]

Ok brothers and sisters all calm down. Allah knows best. Please stop being so angry.

thank you for saying that. Indeed Allah KNows best.

['Abd al-Baari]

:sl:

Ok brothers and sisters all calm down. Allah knows best. Please stop being so angry.

JazakAllah Khayr sis. Please keep this in mind guys. Ramadhaan is round the corner, let us all try to approach it in the best way possible, and refrain from getting into heated discussions. JazakAllah Khayr.

:w:

[S_87]

If you want to be stubborn be, if you dont want to understand it dont.

if theres anyone thats not understanding its you.
Whilst you may not personally like or support it, it doesnt mean that it has no place in islam.
For example i personally think it has a V high place in islam (wajib) however i accept and respect that this is not the opinion of everyone and would never think of looking down on a muslim woman that is not veiled because that is her choice.
In other words i accept her difference of opinion and support her. I dont ridicule her (which is what you come across as doing to veiled women)

[Fishman]

:sl:
If the veil is haram because it is haram in the state of Ihram, then that would make wearing a topi, cutting the nails and slaughtering animals haram too.

And if it is haram because it makes Muslims look bad, does that mean that Halal slaughter is haram too? Many people in the west think that halal slaughter is inhumane.
:w:

[Keltoi]

There was a very good point made, which is the reality of security. In the West in particular, those who hide their faces are thought to be hiding intention. Obviously the majority of women who wear veils aren't plotting some attack, but when a security person sees an individual with a hidden face it will obviously raise his or her interest. For Muslims living in a Western country, there are certain instances when a hidden face is going to cause problems for you.

[islamirama]

No but veil is used to make islam look bad, why not just show ur face and where head scarf why do u need 2 go that extra?
By do that your

Making islaam look bad

which is already bad enough

but you cant educate about viel, because its not always used for the good,we all know about this part

Excuse me? kuffars are making Islam bad by giving NEGATIVE media image of Islam. This has been stated by many Muslim and non_Muslim leaders about the western media. Even UN told the kuffars of Britian to start treating their Muslims better.

Statements like those only show the ignorance one has of Islam and it's teachings. If veil is used to make Islam look bad then i guess the wives of the Prophet (saws) - the mothers of the believers and the muslim women of the first 3 generations (the best people of the ummah) made Islam look bad also? especially since Islam was new in their time as well as it is in kuffar society for us Muslims. They were ghuraaba among the pagans and we are the ghuraba among the kuffars, and glad tidings have been given to the ghurabas.

So bro how about you read up on Islam, niqaab, and islamic history before making such ignorant remarks.

-------

Note to Mods: I think we should close done world affairs for the ramadan inshallah.

[doorster]

Errors Of Those Who Make The Face Veil Obligatory

an edited transliteration of a summary of arr--Radd al--Mufhiim
by Shaykh Nasiruddeen al--Allbaanee
((pages 5--20 of the introduction of
his book ""Jilbaab al--Marr’’ah al--Muslimah"",,
3rd edition,, 1996,, all--Maktabah al--Islaamiyah))

[al Amaanah]

No but veil is used to make islam look bad, why not just show ur face and where head scarf why do u need 2 go that extra?
By do that your

Making islaam look bad

which is already bad enough

but you cant educate about viel, because its not always used for the good,we all know about this part

make islaam look bad? u need to be taught urself akh. u said it urself, and sis amani Allah ya7fadhha said it, at the least mustahab and at the most waajib, either way EXTRA IS GOOD. hadaana Allah, this ummah is so weak.

:w:

[qassy!]

Excuse me? kuffars are making Islam bad by giving NEGATIVE media image of Islam. This has been stated by many Muslim and non_Muslim leaders about the western media. Even UN told the kuffars of Britian to start treating their Muslims better.

Statements like those only show the ignorance one has of Islam and it's teachings. If veil is used to make Islam look bad then i guess the wives of the Prophet (saws) - the mothers of the believers and the muslim women of the first 3 generations (the best people of the ummah) made Islam look bad also? especially since Islam was new in their time as well as it is in kuffar society for us Muslims. They were ghuraaba among the pagans and we are the ghuraba among the kuffars, and glad tidings have been given to the ghurabas.

So bro how about you read up on Islam, niqaab, and islamic history before making such ignorant remarks.

-------

Note to Mods: I think we should close done world affairs for the ramadan inshallah.

Your making it sound like im saying wearing the veil is bad. Im not. Im trying to get the point across, is that people wearing veils put a threat to people in western countries even in the UK.

People are scared of their lives because of the terrorism business, I know Islam has nothing to do with terrorism, but we need to teach this. We need to show Islam is a nice religion and not bad. We need to do this by not wearing viels, and making the community around us happier. Can you blame leaders like George Bush for hating Islam? THink of it, you run a country and so called "Muslims" start blowing the place up.

If you where uneducated in islam and a christians started 2 cause terrorism, and they say "in the name of jesus" and blew up the train what would you think>?

WHy not wear a headscarff instead?
Stat to show people Islam is a nice religon?
It will not only make it better for us, but being muslim in a western country will also make it easier for our children.

Why cover your face when you walk into shops? You need to show your face on CCTV, just because there muslim women wearing veils doesnt mean there a better muslim then me or you does it? So why not show your face for secuity

EDIT: And no it shouldnt, we are having a debate / discussion.

make islaam look bad? u need to be taught urself akh. u said it urself, and sis amani Allah ya7fadhha said it, at the least mustahab and at the most waajib, either way EXTRA IS GOOD. hadaana Allah, this ummah is so weak.

:w:

and sister i dont think you should be judging people.

[al Amaanah]

judging people? what, is this ummah strong? masha Allah.

im outta here insha Allah,

:w:

[Muezzin]

Okey-dokey. The thread has become seriously derailed. It's not about the veil in general, but just about this particular news story.

Since all discussion of that news story seems to have been exhausted, I'm going to close this thread.

Discussion about the veil in general belongs in topics such as these:

Niqab

The Niqab - An Obligation or Not?

Niqab [is it compulsory?]