What is this "personal God" idea that I hear about and is it different in the Quran?

[AntiKarateKid]

Another topic inspired by one of our local Christian posters. I have heard on more than one occasion, this statement of " a personal relationship" with God.

I as a Muslim believe that I have a personal relationship with God and know what he is like through he 99 names and more so as far as I can see, the only difference between Christians and Muslims in this regard is that Christians assert that "God suffered for us".

How is that at all necessary for God to be in contact with his own creation?

Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated!

[------]

:salamext:

Christians assert that "God suffered for us".

No they don't. They assert 'God sacrificed his son for our sins'

[Keltoi]

Another topic inspired by one of our local Christian posters. I have heard on more than one occasion, this statement of " a personal relationship" with God.

I as a Muslim believe that I have a personal relationship with God and know what he is like through he 99 names and more so as far as I can see, the only difference between Christians and Muslims in this regard is that Christians assert that "God suffered for us".

How is that at all necessary for God to be in contact with his own creation?

Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated!

When Christians speak of a personal relationship with God they are referring to many things, but primarily it is about a "new birth".

2 Cor. 5:17-18a "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ. . ."

This personal relationship is about recieving our new nature with God, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7)


This new relationship is all about communication with God. It is also about sincerity of the heart. Without sincerity of the heart that communication is fruitless. So a personal relationship with God is crucial, not just an option or an emotion. For a Christian, if you have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and live a life of sincerity and good fruit, that personal relationship is always there.

Hope that helps.

[MustafaMc]

:salamext:



No they don't. They assert 'God sacrificed his son for our sins'

...but they also say that Jesus (as) wasn't really the "son" of God, but rather fully God in human flesh. Hence, God died on the cross for their sins. At least that was how I saw it when I was a Christian.

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[AntiKarateKid]

When Christians speak of a personal relationship with God they are referring to many things, but primarily it is about a "new birth".

2 Cor. 5:17-18a "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ. . ."

This personal relationship is about recieving our new nature with God, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7)


This new relationship is all about communication with God. It is also about sincerity of the heart. Without sincerity of the heart that communication is fruitless. So a personal relationship with God is crucial, not just an option or an emotion. For a Christian, if you have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and live a life of sincerity and good fruit, that personal relationship is always there.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the info! I am curious about this idea of "renewing" the Holy ghost who is a part of the trinity right? that means he is part of God so why are we renewing God? Do our sins drive God out of us?

[Keltoi]

Thanks for the info! I am curious about this idea of "renewing" the Holy ghost who is a part of the trinity right? that means he is part of God so why are we renewing God? Do our sins drive God out of us?

Our sin does not drive God out of us, but original sin, which I understand is not a Muslim belief, harmed our standing before God. It developed our "sin nature", so to speak, and means human beings do not "deserve" Heaven or eternal life. Human beings were reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. When this task was accomplished the Holy Spirit was returned to us, renewed in us.

[MustafaMc]

Human beings were reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. When this task was accomplished the Holy Spirit was returned to us, renewed in us.

So was the Holy Spirit dwelling within Adam at the same time that God walked and talked with him in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8-12) before the fall?

[AntiKarateKid]

Our sin does not drive God out of us, but original sin, which I understand is not a Muslim belief, harmed our standing before God. It developed our "sin nature", so to speak, and means human beings do not "deserve" Heaven or eternal life. Human beings were reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. When this task was accomplished the Holy Spirit was returned to us, renewed in us.

I'm not sure I understand. "Original sin" developed our sinning nature correct? Adam and eve int he beginning did not have original sin yet they still sinned. How does that work?

[Keltoi]

So was the Holy Spirit dwelling within Adam at the same time that God walked and talked with him in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8-12) before the fall?

The Holy Spirit was certainly with him. I'm not sure the term indwell is appropriate since Adam is told to have a deep communion with God. It is even mentioned that God "walked" with Adam on many occassions. I would say the Holy Spirit was with Adam, as I would believe it to be a better description.

[Keltoi]

I'm not sure I understand. "Original sin" developed our sinning nature correct? Adam and eve int he beginning did not have original sin yet they still sinned. How does that work?

Adam and Eve were responsible for the stain of original sin because God gave them everything they could have wanted, yet they still disobeyed Him. That was the first sin and the cause of the taint of sin in mankind.

[mkh4JC]

So was the Holy Spirit dwelling within Adam at the same time that God walked and talked with him in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8-12) before the fall?

I think the Holy Spirit did indeed dwell within Adam and Eve before the fall. When they disobeyed God and ate of the forbidden fruit, God withdrew his presence away from them and their eyes were opened, and they understood the difference between good and evil, and then too they became capable of sinning. Not only that, Jesus is called in the Bible the Last Adam, and he had the Holy Spirit. So obviously God was living inside of them.

[MustafaMc]

It is even mentioned that God "walked" with Adam on many occassions. I would say the Holy Spirit was with Adam, as I would believe it to be a better description.

Which person of the Trinity walked with Adam? I assume that it was the Father because the Son had not been born yet (with prior existence as "the Word" of God) and I never heard of the Holy Spirit walking. If it was the Father, then the Father and the Holy Spirit must have been at the same place at the same time in order for the Holy Spirit to be with Adam while the Father walked with him. Did Adam have any consciousness of the Son of God while he was in the Garden of Eden, or did he too have an incomplete understanding of God that was only fully manifested with the birth, life, and death of Jesus (as)?

[MustafaMc]

I think the Holy Spirit did indeed dwell within Adam and Eve before the fall. When they disobeyed God and ate of the forbidden fruit, God withdrew his presence away from them and their eyes were opened, and they understood the difference between good and evil, and then too they became capable of sinning. Not only that, Jesus is called in the Bible the Last Adam, and he had the Holy Spirit. So obviously God was living inside of them.

If God was living inside of them up to the point of when they ate the forbidden fruit, why did Adam and Eve feel the need to go and hide from God when they heard Him walking in the Garden. He would have already known of their sin of disobedience and wouldn't ask if they had eaten of the fruit (Genesis 3:11).

Furthermore what about Genesis 3:22-23? It seems as though the God of the OT was afraid that Adam was going to be His rival (astighfir'Allah) by eating the Tree of Life as being the reason that Adam was cast out of the Garden, not as we suppose as punishment for his disobedience.:?

[barney]

Personal God means the beief that God is interested in you as an individual and is watching, loving, dealing out justice and communicating, through "answered prayers" Dreams and "showing,(blessing/gifting)" the person with a certain verse or scripture.

It's the beleif that when you get sacked or get a raise, that it is God stepping in and "testing" you or "punishment" or "rewarding" you for your own perceived triumphs and "sins"

[Keltoi]

Which person of the Trinity walked with Adam? I assume that it was the Father because the Son had not been born yet (with prior existence as "the Word" of God) and I never heard of the Holy Spirit walking. If it was the Father, then the Father and the Holy Spirit must have been at the same place at the same time in order for the Holy Spirit to be with Adam while the Father walked with him. Did Adam have any consciousness of the Son of God while he was in the Garden of Eden, or did he too have an incomplete understanding of God that was only fully manifested with the birth, life, and death of Jesus (as)?

Of course the Persons of the Trinity can be in the same place at the same time. It is described on the day of Pentecost.

As for whether Adam knew the Son of God, I assume you are referring to fleshly body of Jesus Christ. No, he did not meet Jesus Christ as His body had not been formed on earth. However, as Christ comes from the Father and is of the same substance, it would stand to reason that by knowing God Adam also knew the Son. Adam knew God. It is a good question and not one easily answered by a literal verse which describes such an understanding.

[Keltoi]

If God was living inside of them up to the point of when they ate the forbidden fruit, why did Adam and Eve feel the need to go and hide from God when they heard Him walking in the Garden. He would have already known of their sin of disobedience and wouldn't ask if they had eaten of the fruit (Genesis 3:11).

A better question would be, didn't God already know they would disobey Him? My answer would be yes.

As for why Adam and Eve were hiding...it is because they were now in sin and knew shame. It might not have been logical for them to assume they could hide from God, but it is a very human reaction to shame.

Furthermore what about Genesis 3:22-23? It seems as though the God of the OT was afraid that Adam was going to be His rival (astighfir'Allah) by eating the Tree of Life as being the reason that Adam was cast out of the Garden, not as we suppose as punishment for his disobedience.:?

No, God was speaking about their knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden because of their disobedience.

It is also referring to life and death. Because Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they were stricken with sin and the knowledge of good and evil. If Adam would have eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived forever. God knew it was best to die in sin than live forever with separation from Him.

[MustafaMc]

A better question would be, didn't God already know they would disobey Him? My answer would be yes.

I would agree with that.

As for why Adam and Eve were hiding...it is because they were now in sin and knew shame. It might not have been logical for them to assume they could hide from God, but it is a very human reaction to shame.

Yes, it is natural to "hide one's face" from the guilt of shame.

No, God was speaking about their knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden because of their disobedience.

...but in Genesis 3:5 Satan said "you will be like God, knowing good from evil" and then this is corraborated by Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

It is also referring to life and death. Because Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they were stricken with sin and the knowledge of good and evil. If Adam would have eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived forever. God knew it was best to die in sin than live forever with separation from Him.

That is logical, but I don't see it supported by the OT.

[MustafaMc]

As for whether Adam knew the Son of God, I assume you are referring to fleshly body of Jesus Christ. No, he did not meet Jesus Christ as His body had not been formed on earth. However, as Christ comes from the Father and is of the same substance, it would stand to reason that by knowing God Adam also knew the Son. Adam knew God.

...but the God that Adam had a personal relationship with in the Garden of Eden was not the same as the one that you have a relationship with. Adam had absolutely no concept of God dying on the cross in order to cleanse him of his sins; whereas, you do. Would not your experience of God be qualitatively different and quantitatively greater than that of Adam? I speak from the sense of enormous gratitude and love that I had felt as a Christian that God would sacrifice Himself on the cross for lowly me.

[Fazl Ahmad]

A personal relationship with God is what every Muslim should strive for, through prayer and pleasing Him with righteous actions. Salat is the best means to achieve nearness to Allah, because when you are praying you are presenting yourself to Allah and beseeching Him to answer you.

Christians often speak of God "residing" in them or God being inside them, which sometime Muslims confuse and take literally. However, what they really mean is that God is not inside their body, but is working through them, i.e. He is guiding people toward Himself through a person. Christians and Muslims have very different terminology which is part of the reason for misunderstanding betweent he two religions.

[Keltoi]

I would agree with that.Yes, it is natural to "hide one's face" from the guilt of shame....but in Genesis 3:5 Satan said "you will be like God, knowing good from evil" and then this is corraborated by Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Well, it is still referring to the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were sheltered from the reality of sin in the Garden. When they fell into temptation that innocence was taken from them. It wasn't a matter of Adam or Eve becoming "gods", it was about the loss of that perfect fellowship with God.

All Adam and Eve had to do to exist forever in perfect harmony with God was to avoid the knowledge of good and evil, meaning the Tree of Knowledge. One simple request: "Do not eat the fruit." That proved too much for them, and their curiosity brought death, pain, suffering, sorrow, etc into the world.

[Keltoi]

...but the God that Adam had a personal relationship with in the Garden of Eden was not the same as the one that you have a relationship with. Adam had absolutely no concept of God dying on the cross in order to cleanse him of his sins; whereas, you do. Would not your experience of God be qualitatively different and quantitatively greater than that of Adam? I speak from the sense of enormous gratitude and love that I had felt as a Christian that God would sacrifice Himself on the cross for lowly me.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "not the same God", because we believe it to be the exact same God. True, Adam could not have known his sin in the Garden would stain all mankind or that the Son of God would accomplish atonement. However, he is said to have had a deep communion with God, probably much deeper than any man or woman since.

[Keltoi]

A personal relationship with God is what every Muslim should strive for, through prayer and pleasing Him with righteous actions. Salat is the best means to achieve nearness to Allah, because when you are praying you are presenting yourself to Allah and beseeching Him to answer you.

Christians often speak of God "residing" in them or God being inside them, which sometime Muslims confuse and take literally. However, what they really mean is that God is not inside their body, but is working through them, i.e. He is guiding people toward Himself through a person. Christians and Muslims have very different terminology which is part of the reason for misunderstanding betweent he two religions.

I agree. Good post.

[MustafaMc]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "not the same God", because we believe it to be the exact same God.

Yes, of course it is the same God as there is only One, but Adam's concept and experience of God did not include Him being born of a woman to die on the cross for his sins. If I may presume, the focus of your concept of God as a Christian is that very critical issue as illustrated by I Cor. 15:3-4, at least I know it was for me.

[mkh4JC]

Yes, of course it is the same God as there is only One, but Adam's concept and experience of God did not include Him being born of a woman to die on the cross for his sins. If I may presume, the focus of your concept of God as a Christian is that very critical issue as illustrated by I Cor. 15:3-4, at least I know it was for me.

You could make the argument that they did know. Adam and Eve still were given the concept of blood sacrifice as illustrated by Cain and Abel's offerings to God, and they knew that the seed of the women would crush the head of the serpent, as God told them after their fall, so they had some idea as to what God would do. They knew the Savior would come from a woman, and they knew what he would do would be related to blood sacrifice.

[barney]

Well, it is still referring to the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were sheltered from the reality of sin in the Garden. .

Heya Kelt.

Do I understand you mean that sin existed in the garden, and perhaps they were already sinning,(by being naked). The sin only became punishable when they were no longer living in ignorance?

So Gods initial Plan for Humanity was for them to live in ignorance and therefore to all intent, without sin. They only mucked it up by getting clever.

If so, shouldnt we all be trying to get back to being ignorant again, if that was what god wanted?

[Keltoi]

Heya Kelt.

Do I understand you mean that sin existed in the garden, and perhaps they were already sinning,(by being naked). The sin only became punishable when they were no longer living in ignorance?

The sin was disobeying God. It had nothing to do with being ignorant, unless you mean ignorance of sin.

So Gods initial Plan for Humanity was for them to live in ignorance and therefore to all intent, without sin. They only mucked it up by getting clever.

Clever? I wouldn't call it clever. They refused to heed God's command to them and were tempted into sin. Perhaps the Serpent convinced them that they were being "clever", but when they did not obey God and ate of the tree of Knowledge, a world of sin, pain, suffering and death was unleashed upon the world. Perhaps in this instance ignorance was bliss.

If so, shouldnt we all be trying to get back to being ignorant again, if that was what god wanted?

How would we become ignorant of sin now? The world is now drenched with it. There is no going back.

[barney]

Cheers for the response.
I was heading along the route that it was by eating the fruit of the tree of knowlage that they became knowlageable, and therefore could see that they had sinned.

Unleashing a world of pain suffering and death does seem a bit harsh for scrumping apples, but it was probably a favorite tree.
I often think of the verses around the Tower of Babel. Yahweh saying "Cripes! Theyre going to be up here with us (whoever "Us" are in monotheism).
Gods do tend to be packed out with jelousy and fear of mankind progressing.Apples of knowlage and towers that reach heaven.

[Uthman]

Hi barney,

(whoever "Us" are in monotheism).

It may be the Majestic Plural. At least that is what is used in the Qur'an when Allah says us and we.

Regards

[Keltoi]

Cheers for the response.
I was heading along the route that it was by eating the fruit of the tree of knowlage that they became knowlageable, and therefore could see that they had sinned.

Unleashing a world of pain suffering and death does seem a bit harsh for scrumping apples, but it was probably a favorite tree.
I often think of the verses around the Tower of Babel. Yahweh saying "Cripes! Theyre going to be up here with us (whoever "Us" are in monotheism).
Gods do tend to be packed out with jelousy and fear of mankind progressing.Apples of knowlage and towers that reach heaven.

It wasn't that Adam and Eve were supposed to be stupid until they ate of the tree of knowledge, but that they were exposed to the reality of good and evil. Hence Paradise was lost.

As for scrumping apples...I think you are missing the point entirely. The point is that Adam and Eve ignored God's command to them and fell into temptation. However, as I have mentioned in a discussion with Mustafa, it would stand to reason that God already knew Adam and Eve would fall into temptation. The question would then be for what purpose did He allow it to happen? By reading Genesis it appears that God obviously had a plan for humankind, and the test between good and evil was fundamental to it.

[*Hana*]

You say God knew Adam and Eve would sin. So doesn't it seem cruel and unjust that He would create them to sin and then punish them for doing exactly as He created and ordained?? Actually, not only them, but the entire world for generations to come when none of us had the option to prevent it?? :hmm:

Hana

[Keltoi]

You say God knew Adam and Eve would sin. So doesn't it seem cruel and unjust that He would create them to sin and then punish them for doing exactly as He created and ordained?? Actually, not only them, but the entire world for generations to come when none of us had the option to prevent it?? :hmm:

Hana

Well, if God didn't know what would happen that would sort of cause problems with His omnipotence would it not? Keep in mind this is simply my belief and not something that is necessarily taught in Sunday school. If you take the OT and the NT as a larger whole it would seem obvious that there was a divine plan in place.

As for whether it is just or not, I think that depends upon your outlook. From a Christian standpoint, God wants to have eternal fellowship with us. However, He doesn't simply want "yes" people, or mindless flesh and blood that exist without free will of their own. God had knowledge of good and evil, and perhaps to achieve that eternal fellowship with His creation, that creation must also have knowledge of good and evil. Through free-will, we must choose good over evil. Then perhaps we can hope to be worthy of that fellowship.

Again, that is simply my personal belief after years of reading Genesis in the context of the Bible as a whole. I know many other Christians take this view as well, but I'm not sure its exactly scriptural. Some questions remain unanswered.

[barney]

Kelt. I would have to say that yahweh/jesus certainly does want Yes people.
Anyone who slightly disagrees with his commands, man woman, child or unborn human featus is cast into indescribable torment forever and ever. For infinity.

Try to prop up a falling ark of the covenant without express instructions? Sentance Death.
Get a little ticked off at Mum? sentance Death by stoning by the whole city.
Laugh at a prophet? Death by Bears.
Take a census when God tells you to? Death for 70000 people and your own child.

One of the main take home messages of Christianity and Judism is , do-not-ever-question-god. Why? because you will die. Now or in the "hereafter".

Jesus/Yahweh and indeed Allah cannot ever be described as needing "yes men". Allah is aloof from all human concerns, we exist on his whim. Were we to rebel we would surely be destroyed?

[Keltoi]

Kelt. I would have to say that yahweh/jesus certainly does want Yes people.
Anyone who slightly disagrees with his commands, man woman, child or unborn human featus is cast into indescribable torment forever and ever. For infinity.

Try to prop up a falling ark of the covenant without express instructions? Sentance Death.
Get a little ticked off at Mum? sentance Death by stoning by the whole city.
Laugh at a prophet? Death by Bears.
Take a census when God tells you to? Death for 70000 people and your own child.

One of the main take home messages of Christianity and Judism is , do-not-ever-question-god. Why? because you will die. Now or in the "hereafter".

Jesus/Yahweh and indeed Allah cannot ever be described as needing "yes men". Allah is aloof from all human concerns, we exist on his whim. Were we to rebel we would surely be destroyed?

Each time a person commits a sin they are rebelling against God. Yes, if God simply wished to destroy all of us He could certainly do that.

As for the main "take home message" of Christianity, it is salvation through Jesus Christ. True, one is not encouraged to question God by any stretch of the imagination, but that is not the "take home message" of Christianity.

[Follower]

GOD gave Adam and Eve and all of us a freewill. To either follow His Law or not. Come to Him or stray away from Him. Adam and Eve chose not to just like so many of us today!!

[barney]

Isnt a personal relationship based on a two way conversation. I cant have a personal relationship with my cup of coffee or my shoes, and my personal relationship with my pint of beer although more fullfilling isnt quite a personal relationship.

Since the only communication is outgoing hope, could someone explain how the personal relationship works?

[mkh4JC]

Isnt a personal relationship based on a two way conversation. I cant have a personal relationship with my cup of coffee or my shoes, and my personal relationship with my pint of beer although more fullfilling isnt quite a personal relationship.

Since the only communication is outgoing hope, could someone explain how the personal relationship works?

Well, God through the Holy Spirit has ways of communicating with you. It's very hard to explain to someone who is not initiated. Like I could give some examples. I'm a baby in Christ, so I don't know everything, but certain times when I'm trying to explain something here on this site from a Christian perspective the Holy Spirit will step in and caution me against things that I have written. Not with a voice mind you, but he has his ways of communicating with you as a Christian.

Or like, just the other day, I was checking out the Beatles page on Wikipedia, because they are about to license their music to be used in a videogame, and I was just curious about them as a group. Well at the outset I just felt very weird, or agitated. The best way to describe it I guess is to say that I was grieving the Holy Spirit, and he was communicating this to me. But I continued to read, and then I got to the controversy section and read what John Lennon said about Christianity. So those are just some examples, and there's other ways that God can communicate with you, but perhaps if you can't consider something like this to be a possibility then there's no need to share any of the others.

[barney]

Isnt that simply your own hangups over certain things? Instilled by a christian background.

For example, The Beatles are a internationally mega famous band, their use of drugs is known by anyone who has a vague passing knowlage of music. Lennons Imagine is played tens of thousands of times a day. In it he sings Imagine a world with no religion. If your subconciousness dosnt kick in with a christian inspired guilty shiver then you must be pretty broadminded or not serious about faith.

Heres an experimant.
Pauline Mc Lynn
Afan
Michael Travasser
Nicky Smedley

Read these names. The Holy spirit should guide you....without wiki.....:)..... to the name that give you a bit of a shiver.

Give it a shot.

[mkh4JC]

Isnt that simply your own hangups over certain things? Instilled by a christian background.

For example, The Beatles are a internationally mega famous band, their use of drugs is known by anyone who has a vague passing knowlage of music. Lennons Imagine is played tens of thousands of times a day. In it he sings Imagine a world with no religion. If your subconciousness dosnt kick in with a christian inspired guilty shiver then you must be pretty broadminded or not serious about faith.

Heres an experimant.
Pauline Mc Lynn
Afan
Michael Travasser
Nicky Smedley

Read these names. The Holy spirit should guide you....without wiki.....:)..... to the name that give you a bit of a shiver.

Give it a shot.

No, I felt nothing reading those names. And I honestly didn't know much about the Beatles until I visited Wikipedia. I'm an African American male who grew up in Detroit, Michigan, not exactly a great place to learn about and listen to Beatles music.

[barney]

No, I felt nothing reading those names. And I honestly didn't know much about the Beatles until I visited Wikipedia. I'm an African American male who grew up in Detroit, Michigan, not exactly a great place to learn about and listen to Beatles music.

Afan is a Saint from the 500's AD
Nicky Smedly is the actress who plays Laa Laa, the yellow tellytubby who gives joy to millions of Kids
Pauline Mc Lynne, is the actress who plays Mrs doyle, Father Teds house keeper in a series called Father Ted which rips religion to peices
Mike Travasser is a living prophet, the messiah who is currently in US detention for peadophillia.

So with a lack of general knowlage of these people, who are obscure and yet have varying greatness goodness and evil in them, the Holy Spirit diddnt chime in.

We can sign that one off as a "Do not test the lord thy god" optout clause. :)

[mkh4JC]

Afan is a Saint from the 500's AD
Nicky Smedly is the actress who plays Laa Laa, the yellow tellytubby who gives joy to millions of Kids
Pauline Mc Lynne, is the actress who plays Mrs doyle, Father Teds house keeper in a series called Father Ted which rips religion to peices
Mike Travasser is a living prophet, the messiah who is currently in US detention for peadophillia.

So with a lack of general knowlage of these people, who are obscure and yet have varying greatness goodness and evil in them, the Holy Spirit diddnt chime in.

We can sign that one off as a "Do not test the lord thy god" optout clause. :)

Well, you have to consider context. If someone just types the word Satan alongside a list of other names, I don't think I would have grieved the Holy Spirit in that instance. But if I began reading a webpage that describes devil worship, then the Holy Spirit will become grieved and try to shield me from what I am digesting.

[barney]

So you would agree that it's simply your inner conscience rather than a ghostly manifestation of god transmitting his personal displeasure to your wiki browsing directly into your head?

[mkh4JC]

So you would agree that it's simply your inner conscience rather than a ghostly manifestation of god transmitting his personal displeasure to your wiki browsing directly into your head?

No, I don't think I implied that. It's hard to explain to someone not initiated what it feels like to grieve the Holy Spirit. He lives within you as a Christian, not in your head though, in your body. It's not you of your own self becoming agitated (like I said I knew nothing of the Beatles). It's God himself trying to shield you.

[barney]

I could go on matey and ask where in the body! But nahh, it's OK.
Peace to ya.

[Follower]

Lol Barney!! well that was a silly experiment! It would only work if you were going to go into cahoots with one of them. What would it matter if you sensed something about them by just reading their names?