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Mikayeel
09-15-2008, 09:00 PM
:sl:

Is the cultural barrier between muslims ever going to be broken? Or is this barrier made to last forever?

Stuff like when i walk into a pakistani mosque, people look at me nd say what are u in the right place? Well obvsly they dnt say that, but i can just see it in their eyes. Will we ever see a bengali marry a nigerian muslim? Can a white revert find a wife without they hustle or being rejected by the demanding arabs.

Will we ever see islam as one nation, a nation in which a mosque will be full of different coloured people just like this;



Something like we see in mekkah! When people go for Haij. "And mankind is naught but a single nation."
Holy Quran 2:213


So what do u guys think, will his barrier ever be broken? So far i see no signs :( (ok mayb very little ones :p)



:w: :D
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Re.TiReD
09-15-2008, 09:03 PM
:salamext:

You know what bro...I'm gunna be optimistic on this one...

Although prejudices may be deeply embedded in the psyche...I do think there will come a day when you'll see a Bangali bro marrying a Nigerian sis with ease.

Where you'll see an Asian family asking for the hand of a revert sis.

But maybe I'm being too optimistic? We can only hope...

WassalamuAlaykum
Reply

Hamayun
09-15-2008, 09:10 PM
It is happening. I can speak for myself. My family accepted my French wife who is a revert with open arms.

Its happening everywhere and Inshallah Muslims around the world will realise we are children of Adam and Eve.

Peace.
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crayon
09-15-2008, 09:13 PM
I don't believe culture will ever be eradicated, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Yes, we are a single nation, but Allah also says:

"O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware." (49:13)

What needs to happen is for us to learn to accept each other for our different cultures, traditions, etc, and for us to learn to get along. If muslims can't properly get along amongst themselves, how do we expect to get along with non muslims, who differ from us to an even greater extent?

Sighh. It'll happen someday, though, inshallah... The only thing we can do until then is work on ourselves, and BE the change instead of waiting for everyone else. "Allah does not change a people's lot unless they change what is in their hearts." (13:11)
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Re.TiReD
09-15-2008, 09:15 PM
Masha'Allah at above. And masha'Allah at how some people are prepared to be that change. Its true that the culture itself cannot and will not be eradicated since different cultures in and of themselves can be rich and beautiful. Its the barriers that need to be broken.
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Mikayeel
09-15-2008, 09:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun
It is happening. I can speak for myself. My family accepted my French wife who is a revert with open arms.

Its happening everywhere and Inshallah Muslims around the world will realise we are children of Adam and Eve.

Peace.
:sl:

Nice speech crayon :)

Uhm it might be happening on such a small scale that its unnoticeable, i mean it should happen to the ummah as a whole.
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Re.TiReD
09-15-2008, 09:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by raOnar
:sl:

Nice speech crayon :)

Uhm it might be happening on such a small scale that its unnoticeable, i mean it should happen to the ummah as a whole.
:wasalamex

but bro....we cant expect change overnight.

Slowly but surely does the trick insha'Allah :)
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Mikayeel
09-15-2008, 09:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JσℓιєFℓєυя
:salamext:

You know what bro...I'm gunna be optimistic on this one...

Although prejudices may be deeply embedded in the psyche...I do think there will come a day when you'll see a Bangali bro marrying a Nigerian sis with ease.

Where you'll see an Asian family asking for the hand of a revert sis.

But maybe I'm being too optimistic? We can only hope...

WassalamuAlaykum
:sl:

Ye unfortunately thats the way i see it aswell :(, it needs a miracle to change the current situations.
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Hamayun
09-15-2008, 09:25 PM
Everything starts off small. Gandhi was only 1 man but managed to make history using peace as his weapon.

There is no reason why we can't get the ball rolling and maybe make a difference. Thanks to the internet and technology it is so easy to pass on the message.

We all have the ability to do it. All we need is determination.
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barney
09-15-2008, 09:28 PM
Well I suppose I ought to dive in and bring up some talking points.

Islam accepted/accepts slavery if you veiw some scripture and hadith from certain angles. Literal angles.

Historically, Arabs took their slaves mainly from the African tribes. Yes about 3 million slaves were white, but this was miniscule compared to the African slave populations.
Hence, religion seems to be taking, in some instances, second fiddle to race.
The Quran is written in Arabic, pure and Clear. Other languages are hence inferior since God would not choose an inferior language.

I could wax lyrical on this, but these two points are sufficient at present.
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Re.TiReD
09-15-2008, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
Well I suppose I ought to dive in and bring up some talking points.

Islam accepted/accepts slavery if you veiw some scripture and hadith from certain angles. Literal angles.

Historically, Arabs took their slaves mainly from the African tribes. Yes about 3 million slaves were white, but this was miniscule compared to the African slave populations.
Hence, religion seems to be taking, in some instances, second fiddle to race.
The Quran is written in Arabic, pure and Clear. Other languages are hence inferior since God would not choose an inferior language.

I could wax lyrical on this, but these two points are sufficient at present.
I dont get what point ur trying to make.

Before the advent of Islam in Makkah, yeah its true that taking black slaves was the norm. But we all know of the prophets farewell sermon...Where he said that no Arab enjoys superiority over a non-Arab and vice versa

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
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Hamayun
09-15-2008, 09:31 PM
Barney your posts are always the same old uneducated waffle.

Islam never promoted Slavery. Slavery existed before Islam. If anything Islam recommended freeing slaves and offered a reward in return.

I am still new here but you posts are so repetitive and hardly educational.
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Re.TiReD
09-15-2008, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude™
The point Barney mentions of the Quran being in Arabic... I think that is probably one of the reason some Arabs have this sense of superiority about themselves..
Ahh understood. JazakAllah khayr akhee. It makes sense unfortunately. Dont know how true that is or what our Arab members would think though.
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Hamayun
09-15-2008, 09:41 PM
I agree on the point that some Arabs do feel like they are superior Muslims. Maybe because the Quran being in Arabic also plays a part.
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Ansariyah
09-15-2008, 09:44 PM
I get those weird looks too whenever I visit our desi populated mosque here. I get asked a lot if I am a revert? Which I have to alsways answer no to lol. People somehow have this image of what a muslim should look like, "mostly look like themselves" which is strange to me.

I don't know. But I do feel somewhat uncomfortable going to the mosque. So I don't go so often unless its at fajr when hardly no ones ther.

Oh and everyone salams their own kind usually all desis salam each other n the rest get ignored. When I say salam i get looked at funny..like haah whaad..?:rollseyes. Lol one time As I was going down the stairs I said salam to this lady and she literally stopped and looked me up and down n just walked away.

I do know this old woman (shes desi) shes really old. Sometimes I go with my Dad to the mosque at ffajr n shes usually there at the sisters area, only me n her . I noticed that she's so friendly and sweet. Shes 89years old:D lol she's always kissing me and hugging me:-[. I love her!
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barney
09-15-2008, 09:47 PM
And the prophet kept slaves. It dosnt mention if they are black. It's hard to square "all people are equal" with slave ownership. To Square Slave ownership with "All free people are equal" if you squint through 7th century eyes, is easy.

Sorry if my posts are tedious, but please dont confuse teduim with questions that would rather be avoided. :D
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Hamayun
09-15-2008, 09:52 PM
I think you chose to completely ignore the fact that he married a Slave. What message was he trying to give out by doing that? But I expected you to overlook that... tunnel vision.
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Ansariyah
09-15-2008, 09:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun
I agree on the point that some Arabs do feel like they are superior Muslims. Maybe because the Quran being in Arabic also plays a part.
I think thats a gneralization to say that all Arabs roll in money. Arabs have to work for a living just like you do. There are no free hand outs in the Arab World. You can n I welcome u to criticize the Royals all u like but the same doesn't go for all the civilians. You are actually discriminating n u dont even know it.
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Hamayun
09-15-2008, 09:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yanoorah
I think thats a gneralization to say that all Arabs roll in money. Arabs have to work for a living just like you do. There are no free hand outs in the Arab World. You can n I welcome u to criticize the Royals all u like but the same doesn't go for all the civilians. You are actually discriminating n u dont even know it.
I had a feeling my post would be perceived in that way but I am not allowed to edit :cry:

I didn't mean to generalise hence why I made the word "some" bold. I think I didn't word it right.

Discrimination exists everywhere. Even between Muslims from the same Country etc.

My apologies for not making myself clear.
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Ansariyah
09-15-2008, 10:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun
I had a feeling my post would be perceived in that way but I am not allowed to edit :cry:

I didn't mean to generalise hence why I made the word "some" bold. I think I didn't word it right.

Discrimination exists everywhere. Even between Muslims from the same Country etc.

My apologies for not making myself clear.
Don't be sad. No need to Apologize, it's alright. I'm sorry if u really cried.
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Re.TiReD
09-15-2008, 10:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yanoorah
I think thats a gneralization to say that all Arabs roll in money. Arabs have to work for a living just like you do. There are no free hand outs in the Arab World. You can n I welcome u to criticize the Royals all u like but the same doesn't go for all the civilians. You are actually discriminating n u dont even know it.
Agreed sis.

Anyway I think the Arab issue is one...But the different cultures out there are manyyy. You'll never get every single barrier broken. Sad but true.
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chacha_jalebi
09-15-2008, 10:09 PM
well :D

i know a pakistani who has married a jamaican brother!

i know a iranian who married a algerian!

and personally :embarrass :p

so inshallah if we can stand in the mosques, eat and drink together, then we should be able to inter marry, but some people prefer to stick to their cultures, which is fine, as long as you marry someone for deen innaaay
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Re.TiReD
09-15-2008, 10:11 PM
Masha'Allah ^^

I made a thread much like this in the gender rooms.

Sometimes its the family that holds a person back. It may sound mean to say this but I think that by the time us lot are grandparents (and the older generation at present are no longer with us) things will have changed insha'Allah.
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chacha_jalebi
09-15-2008, 10:15 PM
^

also before we marry we always think omg i wan my kids to speak panjabi or whatever, if i marry a white person, my kids wont learn the lingo or summin .... WHO CARES:p

and also we may fear what our family think and all that,

there is nothin wrong with marryin someone from your own community, but obviously if you find someone from a different crew or race, and their deen is better, marry them innay!
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Re.TiReD
09-15-2008, 10:19 PM
At the language point, it may sound trivial to some but its true isnt it bro.

I mean forget that, imagine marrying into a family where the inlaws want the D-I-L to learn their language...Fine I know many would do it out of love...I personally would take on a whole new language, but for it to be a requirement and a basis for rejection....Hmm
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------
09-16-2008, 03:35 PM
So what do u guys think, will this barrier ever be broken?
Nope
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------
09-16-2008, 03:42 PM
I aint discriminating, I would rather my kids speak my own language @ raONAR modness

format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
and also we may fear what our family think and all that,

there is nothin wrong with marryin someone from your own community, but obviously if you find someone from a different crew or race, and their deen is better, marry them innay!
errr communication problems, culture problems, too much complication. I would rather marry into my own community
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Soulja Girl
09-16-2008, 03:46 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
Nope
^Sad but true... *sigh* imsad I wish we could just live in peace & harmony... :cry:

:w:
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Mikayeel
09-16-2008, 03:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
I aint discriminating, I would rather my kids speak my own language @ raONAR modness



errr communication problems, culture problems, too much complication. I would rather marry into my own community
I respect u wanting ur kids to speak ur own language, but what i dnt respect is u saying that u dnt want dem 'gora kids'. For the simple fact that we have white converts in this forum(and whats wrong with white kids?).... and secondly its foreign language and not everyone understands it. So i will not continue into this, Allahuma inu ana Saim!!

:w:
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Güven
09-16-2008, 03:54 PM
Thats a diffucult question but I wouldnt matter Who I Marry In my deen But Indeed It would Be difficult with Communications But Not with My culture I think

:w:
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------
09-16-2008, 03:55 PM
:salamext:

--- I meant I want my kids to at least understand their culture, and by that they have to learnt their language. By 'dem gora kids' I meant I don't want them to only speak english because then they will forget about their culture...

---
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Re.TiReD
09-16-2008, 03:58 PM
SubhanAllah. Anti Saaim-ah

We all are actually.

May Allah (swt) guide us all. Ameen.

WassalamuAlaykum
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------
09-16-2008, 03:58 PM
care to translate?
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chacha_jalebi
09-16-2008, 04:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
:salamext:

--- I meant I want my kids to at least understand their culture, and by that they have to learnt their language. By 'dem gora kids' I meant I don't want them to only speak english because then they will forget about their culture...

---
now now, everyone smile like dissssh :D

if the culture is islamic, then thats fine but me personally speakin i think my culture bein a pakistanian is mashed up, its not islamic at all!

and i agree with you on the point of not forgettin roots and that, but for mee as long as the kids dont forget they muslims its all goood

and gora kid :( i was called that by them street uncles, until they didnt know i was one of them:(
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Re.TiReD
09-16-2008, 04:02 PM
I think I said b4, some people may be part of a rich heritage and culture and they may not want to overcome any barriers, may want to stay as they are.

Also, knowing who you are is important I guess.
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chacha_jalebi
09-16-2008, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
care to translate?
its what i said before to you lol

innee saa imun innee saa imun!

meanin im fastin, im fastin
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Mikayeel
09-16-2008, 04:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
:salamext:

--- I meant I want my kids to at least understand their culture, and by that they have to learnt their language. By 'dem gora kids' I meant I don't want them to only speak english because then they will forget about their culture...

---
Okok i will grow up :)

Am sorry, do remember am still a trainee mod (so bare with me)

:w:
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Mikayeel
09-16-2008, 04:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JσℓιєFℓєυя
I think I said b4, some people may be part of a rich heritage and culture and they may not want to overcome any barriers, may want to stay as they are.

Also, knowing who you are is important I guess.
:sl:

Yep thats well said :) However i see sometimes that people take pride on where they are from, instead of taking pride on their deen. :)

Its the same in sudan, a guy from southwest sudan proposed to my cousin(we are from the north) and my aunty simply rejected him because of his darker skin colour and the place in sudan he was from. While he was an engineer and was in top condition regarding his religion.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-16-2008, 04:54 PM
:sl:

Personally, I would love to marry out of my culture and race. If I lived in a place where polygamy was normal, I'd have the most multicultured family ever. :D
From what I've seen, inter-racial marriages takes alot of patience and there has to be compromising on each side's part more than a regular same culture marriage. I think to marry out of one's culture, you need a spouse who gets you & your culture, and knows Islam well enough to seperate the two and vice-versa. Then, you and your spouse can build a proper Islamic family & seperate the culture and include only the culture that is Islamically acceptable.
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crayon
09-16-2008, 05:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad
:sl:

Personally, I would love to marry out of my culture and race. If I lived in a place where polygamy was normal, I'd have the most multicultured family ever. :D
From what I've seen, inter-racial marriages takes alot of patience and there has to be compromising on each side's part more than a regular same culture marriage. I think to marry out of one's culture, you need a spouse who gets you & your culture, and knows Islam well enough to seperate the two and vice-versa. Then, you and your spouse can build a proper Islamic family & seperate the culture and include only the culture that is Islamically acceptable.
Everything you just said I completely agree with. Couldn't have said it any better.
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noorseeker
09-16-2008, 05:31 PM
If we all stayed in our lands and werent born in the west . we wouldnt have really got in contact with other races.

This question can really arise in the western world, dont get me wrong but isnt it in the west that you can find so many mother tongues in one city, thats what i love about U.K . you get to meet so many different people.

if we stayed in our own countries we would have remained ignorant of other races,at least in this country we have a chance to mix.


This thing will not be a problem for our childrens generation, because parents nowadays talk english to their kids, so the language barrier is gone
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Z-Blade
09-16-2008, 05:32 PM
:sl:,

format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
Sighh. It'll happen someday, though, inshallah... The only thing we can do until then is work on ourselves, and BE the change instead of waiting for everyone else. "Allah does not change a people's lot unless they change what is in their hearts." (13:11)
Hmmm, haha indeed ukhti :O, jazakillahu khair...

Wassalam.
Reply

Sahabiyaat
09-16-2008, 05:43 PM
being optimistsic, is just one way of lying, and trying to live the utopia that will never be.:rollseyes

so im am not going to give false hope, so ill say, Never, ...not for a longggggg tym, thats if a miricale happens from Allah, otherwise never.

And pakistanis or whatever accepting their sons french wives is not an indication of breaking cultural barriers:rollseyes, mothers will do anything, and i mean anything to ensure the happiness of their sons.

A real indication of progress would be if the people in my community would stop shunning a poor pakistani woman for marrying a black revert, of which the whole family are very practising (Allah knows best), much more than the ppl who talk about them.

Ah well....its a sorry situation really, that we cant even interact let alone accept our fellow muslims, and thats the one thing thats meant to unite us!
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S_87
09-16-2008, 06:23 PM
by marrying someone out of ones own culture, it doesnt mean their kids will not grow up to learn atleast one mother tongue.
i personally still know a lot of my culture even though i dont know or communicate much in the language. This is the same for a few of my cousins who cant communicate in the language at all.
i personally dont intend teaching my kids the language (not that i could) but what i mean is anyway, so long as they can speak a couple of languages that fine.

There is racism within every community, it just depends how people deal with the racism. Some people use the fact that they are of a superior race (supposedly) against others, whilst others see the racism that may be within them as evil (which it is)
And every culture has its racist people, its not only arabs or pakistanis or english people...
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truemuslim
09-16-2008, 06:25 PM
Yeh, Well i mayyyyyyy agree with the culture thing serene said buut.... if they about culture then they quit being racists, ya know? Like an arab can't refuse a white convert because he's white, because thats old timen racist ! But if you refused because you want your kids to be 100% arab then yeh worreva do it then. People are usually refusing because the whole white thing. of course.
And i think the barrier may be broken, very slowly it is, i see Philipienes (however u spell it) with irani, i see white, with paki, i see saudi with suri (syrian) i see suri with omani, i see all types of people, everyone is startin to chill and take the anti racist pill (:? :p ) ya kno in yemen sometimes they refuse because the person is from a different city. lololol. i see that everywhere in every country but its starten to all get together now. Oh btw, you do kno that you can agree what u kids will learn, as in language, or do what we did, since i were raised by arab parents in the usa i learned english and arabic at the same time without noticing, by the time im 5 i talk better english then them :) it aint that hard, and mix up cultures to make a better living cmon it aint bad at all. btw i dont fink u wanna get ur kids sayin things like " madre! il a dit in ana ma3arifsh a talk sowa! aqibi this garçon moyen" thats arabic english and spanish, english from wher the child is born, arabic from one parent and spanish from the other. so jus settle before or u gonna get a new language on earth that u need 50 translators for!:D
Maybe we jus need a kwl gangsta person to give them martin luthor king speeches, eh? "I had a dream last night that i were walkin and got shot--oops wrong dream.. i had -- i HAVE a dream that one night...i mean one day, colored people, with different cultures and mixed skin colors, and white people with different cultures and different skin colors, can one day get used to each other and have kwl looking kids, happily living, with no racism, and no...(thinks of something that rhyme wit ism) barriers in our cultural triangular prism! I have a dream, that one dayyy, black and white converts can mix together like chocolate vanilla sundae, I have a dream, that one daay, saudi and syrian can marry with no arguing about whats for dinner, i have a dream that one day sudani and lebenoni can marry without complaining about what men will wear on ther heads! I HAVE A DREAM, YOUR DREAM, OUR DREAM, LETS CALL THE GENIE TO GRANT US OUR WISHHHH!!!! AMEN BRUVA!" then everyone shouts amen bla bla bla. i would be great in giving a speech eh? i make em up as i go, thats how i got elected for class president but dropped out coz its laaame! coz my speeches ownnn. :) :)
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Güven
09-16-2008, 06:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Yeh, Well i mayyyyyyy agree with the culture thing serene said buut.... if they about culture then they quit being racists, ya know? Like an arab can't refuse a white convert because he's white, because thats old timen racist ! But if you refused because you want your kids to be 100% arab then yeh worreva do it then. People are usually refusing because the whole white thing. of course.
And i think the barrier may be broken, very slowly it is, i see Philipienes (however u spell it) with irani, i see white, with paki, i see saudi with suri (syrian) i see suri with omani, i see all types of people, everyone is startin to chill and take the anti racist pill (:? :p ) ya kno in yemen sometimes they refuse because the person is from a different city. lololol. i see that everywhere in every country but its starten to all get together now. Oh btw, you do kno that you can agree what u kids will learn, as in language, or do what we did, since i were raised by arab parents in the usa i learned english and arabic at the same time without noticing, by the time im 5 i talk better english then them :) it aint that hard, and mix up cultures to make a better living cmon it aint bad at all
Maybe we jus need a kwl gangsta person to give them martin luthor king speeches, eh? "I had a dream last night that i were walkin and got shot--oops wrong dream.. i had -- i HAVE a dream that one night...i mean one day, colored people, with different cultures and mixed skin colors, and white people with different cultures and different skin colors, can one day get used to each other and have kwl looking kids, happily living, with no racism, and no...(thinks of something that rhyme wit ism) barriers in our cultural triangular prism! I have a dream, that one dayyy, black and white converts can mix together like chocolate vanilla sundae, I have a dream, that one daay, saudi and syrian can marry with no arguing about whats for dinner, i have a dream that one day sudani and lebenoni can marry without complaining about what men will wear on ther heads! I HAVE A DREAM, YOUR DREAM, OUR DREAM, LETS CALL THE JINNI TO GRANT US OUR WISHHHH!!!! AMEN BRUVA!" then everyone shouts amen bla bla bla. i would be great in giving a speech eh? i make em up as i go, thats how i got elected for class president but dropped out coz its laaame! coz my speeches ownnn. :) :)
Oke that Was Actualy Quite Funny But Whats This? a JINNI to grant our wish ?? :-\

Why Not ask our Almighty Lord To change this ? :)

:wasalamex
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truemuslim
09-16-2008, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
Oke that Was Actualy Quite Funny But Whats This? a JINNI to grant our wish ?? :-\

Why Not ask our Almighty Lord To change this ? :)

:wasalamex
lool i meant genie, however u spell it. lol. tis wat martin says to grant wish. i jus copyin dem speechmakers buh we all kno i own all speech peoples wit my tiight gansta horrible english grammar speeches :D
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Ansariyah
09-16-2008, 09:41 PM
Why use the term Gori or Goraa, whatever it is we know that it's a belittling term that pakistanis/desis use against whites.:rollseyes
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truemuslim
09-16-2008, 09:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yanoorah
Why use the term Gori or Goraa, whatever it is we know that it's a belittling term that pakistanis/desis use against whites.:rollseyes
so thats what it means?? hmm.. in google i got some movie and businesses...:D
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chacha_jalebi
09-16-2008, 09:52 PM
this thread has served its purpose

dont i sound posh :embarrass

want it re opened, give us a ring on Li studio line, thats 0208 999,

:threadclo
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