Law in Islamic world - and its affects on outsiders

[barrio79]

.I have copied a newspaper report of an Australian woman being mistreated by her husband and by Islamic law in Saudi Arabia , how can Shariah and /or Islamic law be defended and promoted when these terrible examples are so prevalent.and the unfairness to females so self evident .One would have thought that any muslims lucky enough to escape to a 1st World country would be glad to be shot of such a legal system and embrace a modern humane legal system .

FRom. NEWS >COM >AU ....
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...16-421,00.html
Woman faces arrest for exposing her face
By Miles Kemp
September 20, 2008 02:34am ( Article from: Send this article: Print Email )
AN Adelaide woman trapped in Saudi Arabia says she has been threatened with arrest for exposing her face to a male neighbour in front of her children.
Almost two months after the Foreign Affairs Department said it could not ensure the Australian citizen got out of the country with her four children, she says it has now refused her sanctuary in the consulate and she expects to be arrested today.
The mother of four, who cannot be named because she fears for her safety, contacted The Advertiser from Riyadh yesterday and said Saudi police had threatened to arrest her.
"I am in a very difficult situation here and I have been told now I am going to be arrested because I exposed my face in front of a male neighbour," she said.

The family stays trapped in Saudi Arabia because the woman's ex-husband, also an Australian citizen, has taken their passports and applied for custody in a Saudi court following an acrimonious divorce.
After publicity in July, DFAT agreed to issue passports to the woman and her children on the condition Saudi authorities gave her an exit visa.
The woman said she had also been denied protective shelter in the Australian consulate, despite being the successful applicant for a job there.
In a written statement, a DFAT spokesman said the consulate could not be used to shelter Australians from the local laws.
He said one of the woman's children had been issued an Australian passport but not the other three.
"Australian consular staff at the Australian Embassy in Riyadh will continue to meet the woman's consular needs to the maximum extent possible," the statement said.
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[جوري]

pls.. I am having such an incredibly difficult time believing this nonsense considering all those women in Mecca (the house of God) with exposed faces praying about while there are men in the same place.. Perhaps the aussie did more than expose her face to the neighbor? that is, if there is actual truth in that article.. and I have lived in Saudi Arabia for four years..our neighbors were lebanese and christian, they loved it!


otherwise, be advised that Saudi Arabia isn't implementing shari'a law, for starters and should be obvious to the naked eye, Sharia'a doesn't run on a monarchy system and if you'd read a little, that would have been your first tip off..

as for us women.. what can I say, we must really love being all meek and feeble so we convert to Islam at a ratio of 5:1

cheers

[north_malaysian]

I've seen CNN's Inside Middle East where Hala Gorani went unveil in a mall in Jeddah...she said that non-Saudis are allowed to be hijabless..

[جوري]

The building where I lived in KSA had a swimming pool, the foreign women would literally push the men and children out, take off their 3abayas and swim in their bikinis.. the building had an atrium and people could basically look out the window at the swimming pool and its inhabitants, they didn't give a d a m n..

It is ridiculous.. when they write such articles I know they aim it at a western audience, they think the rest of us bucolic country oafs just waiting for their valiant knights to save us perhaps even take us into the 21st century.. they sicken me.. honestly, all the crap they spew on the net and the news, and God forbid you there is a voice of dissent..
perhaps someone should interview the hubby and other parties see why her divorce was so 'acrimonious'

Here is 'democracy'.. freedom ONLY to express western sentiment!

:w:

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[barney]

How long ago since you were in Saudi PA?
Is it possible that Saudi has areas that are more "liberal" than others. If you head into Rural Rutland with a satanic T-shirt, you would get a negative response. The same shirt in Leeds wouldnt cause a second glance.
Same with the USA. Head to the bible belt with a Richard dawkins mask on and see how long you last.

Perhaps this lady is in a more religious area?
Perhaps its because she is Western? Remember the "Mohammed" teddy bear farce?
Or mayby your right. She's making the whole thing up and shes simply an anti islamic madwoman trying to slur Islam, and none of it actually happened?

[جوري]

How long ago since you were in Saudi PA?
Is it possible that Saudi has areas that are more "liberal" than others. If you head into Rural Rutland with a satanic T-shirt, you would get a negative response. The same shirt in Leeds wouldnt cause a second glance.
Same with the USA. Head to the bible belt with a Richard dawkins mask on and see how long you last.

Perhaps this lady is in a more religious area?
Perhaps its because she is Western? Remember the "Mohammed" teddy bear farce?
Or mayby your right. She's making the whole thing up and shes simply an anti islamic madwoman trying to slur Islam, and none of it actually happened?

been a while actually, I was a little girl at the time.. I was amused by the whole thing, given my home country was nothing like KSA, but I digress-- you are right some areas are less strict than others.. I lived in Riyadh and that was generally considered to be the strictest, when I went to see my aunt in jeddah after she had, had my cousin, I was surprised indeed by women at the beach without hijab etc eating gyros on the plage, unaccompanied by men and laughing away.. I thought it was odd the 'americans' had to kick the men out and turn off the light to go swimming, in Riyadh, but they did it.. in Jeddah, they didn't need to kick anyone out, or turn off any lights.. so there is indeed disparity between the cities, but I can't imagine them being stricter than Riyadh.. they were ludicrous at times with their matwa3een forcing people to go pray, my dad had to bail a christian guy from jail once because he didn't offer prayer...but that has nothing to do with Islam, and I really can't imagine someone going through all this for not wearing a face veil..

believe me when my dad left us there for 6 months while he had to go on a diplomatic leave, he left a Saudi guardian to oversee our affairs until we left the country, they are not the monsters folks paint them to be.. I dare even say, they were some of the nicest people I had encountered..
.. our neighbor upstairs were saudis and contrary to popular belief they were poor and struggling to make ends meet, the wife worked as a seamstress, but had a quiet dignity about her, that is she never begged or solicited the way they do in other 'Muslim countries' in fact she used to offer people free samples of her work in special occasions, hoping someone would ask her to sew their garments . and when it was Eid time, she had food bags for everyone in the building...

so I am not going to sit here and agree with an article clearely one sided, when I have actually lived amongst these people and know them to be different from the group of effete indulgent and morally decayed bunch they are often portrayed as being..

If you think you are going to visit a country and everyone will be nice to you, or everyone is going to be wicked, pathetic and backwards, they I truly pity you.. people are people the world over.. and there are always two sides to every story.. so far I have heard just one.. and it seems a little odd.. my mom, my two aunts, my grandmother, my sister paraded around with their face uncovered for years in KSA and I in my little short dresses and it didn't cause an international upheaval..

you tell me whom should I believe?

cheers

[barney]

No Idea. Ive never been KSA. I have been to Kuwait, but diddnt really get to mix since it was all confined to camp stuff. The city looked amazing as we flew in though.

All I know of it is what i see on the news.
I recall though how much my country has changed since i was a kid.
I used to be able to run about the countryside aged 7, the police would clip you round the head if you got into trouble, people made fun of gays and Drugs were something the doctor prescribed you.
Societys change amazingly in such a short time.
Perhaps KSA is still the land you knew, perhaps its a Wabbithabbit totalitarian nightmare where women get beaten for showing their faces.

I accept you knew the country as it was. Neither of us can say what it is today. Perhaps a KSA resident can tell us if they feel free enough to speak.

[crayon]

I've lived in Saudi Arabia twice, for a year in 99, and now, been there since 04.

In those few years it has changed immensely.
First off, Saudi in 99. When you went out, you had to wear an abaya, cover your hair, and in many places, cover your face. Religious policemen were everywhere, very strict, tell women to cover if they're not, make sure all shops close during prayer time, etc.

Nowadays, religious policemen are much rarer to come across. In my 3 years there I've only seen one twice. All women are required to wear an abaya, but covering the hair or face are 2 rules that are no longer enforced. So wherever you go, there are non muslim (or even muslim) women that do not cover their hair, let alone their face. And this is in Riyadh, which is way stricter than Jeddah, or Dammam, or Khobar. This story could have taken place somewhere else, where covering is the norm.. There are quite a few very small traditional cities that I guess are more reserved. The article mentions Riyadh though, so I'm not sure if that's the case here.

In any case, I find it extremely hard to believe this story.
Plus, most westerners (and many non saudis) live in compounds, like Skye described, where saudi rules don't even apply. So you've got free mixing, women uncovered, dances and parties, drinking (though not officially recognized); it's a bit of suburbian america in the middle of the desert. Most, and by most I mean like 95% of westerners live in compounds like these, but I guess this woman could be of the minority that doesn't.

Barrio- This is not shariah, don't be stupid, thanks.:)

[barney]

Thats great info Crayon. Nothing like a first hand account to tell it like it is.

Its good to hear that things are more relaxed now. What do you attribute that to?

The other strange thing is why do Westerners live in compounds? Are they like pets!? :D

[crayon]

Westerners live in compounds so that they can live in an environment like they do in their home countries. Like I said, besides the weather, living in a compound is like living in the US/Canada/the UK. But it's actually even better.

First off, compounds are very expensive, but usually expats are given housing allowances to cover the costs. So a compound is basically a bunch of houses (could be from 10 to a couple hundred, depending on the size of it). Sometimes they come fully furnished, other times not. The compound usually has facilities for the people that live there, they include things like: gyms, swimming pools, restaurants, day cares, hair salons, small supermarkets, rec rooms, bowling alleys, pool tables, sports halls (for sports like basketball, volleyball, etc), libraries, movie theatres, and all sorts of other stuff. Bigger compounds usually organize things like bazaars, BBQ's, dances, parties. So if you're an expat, living in KSA, with your company paying for your housing, living in a compound is a pretty great perk.

As for why things are more relaxed nowadays, I have no clue.. Could be the different rulers of the countries having different opinions on what is best? I've heard the new-ish king is very more relaxed in terms of religion. But besides that guess, I don't know.

[جوري]

I recommend everyone get this book
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man

will tell you exactly what the foreigners are doing in Saudi Arabia and other oil rich Arab countries.. in order to misappropriate money from Saudis on phony companies and incomplete projects... the same bankrupt morals that have lead in large part to their economic demise here in the U.S....
Sob7an Allah.. it really reminds me of the verse in suret AL Baqra

'When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only want to make peace!" 2.11


:w:

[barrio79]

Thanks for all the enlightening response , but no one has yet offered up any help to the Australian Women in distress in Saudi as we sp;eak...

[جوري]

No Idea. Ive never been KSA. I have been to Kuwait, but diddnt really get to mix since it was all confined to camp stuff. The city looked amazing as we flew in though.

All I know of it is what i see on the news.
I recall though how much my country has changed since i was a kid.
I used to be able to run about the countryside aged 7, the police would clip you round the head if you got into trouble, people made fun of gays and Drugs were something the doctor prescribed you.
Societys change amazingly in such a short time.
Perhaps KSA is still the land you knew, perhaps its a Wabbithabbit totalitarian nightmare where women get beaten for showing their faces.

I accept you knew the country as it was. Neither of us can say what it is today. Perhaps a KSA resident can tell us if they feel free enough to speak.

It wasn't 'eons' ago that I was in KSA, most likely since they have become more liberal...
the other comment I'll make about your own neck of the woods, is that homosexuality wasn't merely an act to be 'made fun' of, it was punishable by imprisonment...

cheers

[جوري]

Thanks for all the enlightening response , but no one has yet offered up any help to the Australian Women in distress in Saudi as we sp;eak...

You seem most concerned, touched by her condition, and to know more about it, than the rest of us.. why aren't you offering her your help? or what would you like the forum members to do?-- hilarious!

[Malaikah]

I too find this article VERY hard to believe. Either way, even if it IS true (which I highly doubt), she broke the law knowingly (presumably) and should therefore take responsibility for her actions.

[barney]

the other comment I'll make about your own neck of the woods, is that homosexuality wasn't merely an act to be 'made fun' of, it was punishable by imprisonment...

cheers

Thats true about 80 years ago. Then we threw off lots of Religious based laws. We only threw Blasphemy out this year!
Amazing how long it takes for reason to filter into a society when the Church opposes it.

[S_87]

every so often theres a story from saudi taken totally out of proportion so people can rant about how horrible it is there :rolleyes:
oh-and use the W word

[barrio79]

“You seem most concerned, touched by her condition, and to know more about it, than the rest of us.. why aren't you offering her your help? or what would you like the forum members to do?-- hilarious!”

“I too find this article VERY hard to believe. Either way, even if it IS true (which I highly doubt), she broke the law knowingly (presumably) and should therefore take responsibility for her actions.”


Compassion compassion where is the compassion no one seems to have any compassion for the women and her children , some think it is hilarious and some think it is her fault , so if you can't do the time don't do the crime as the old lags would say say. Some think the story is untrue , when it is a report copied from a respectable newspaper.


Unfortunately for the women concerned it is neither hilarious or untrue but these minor details do not seem to have struck a cord with any of our dear readers ..

[جوري]

I guess it is in the same ball park or, man imprisoned for wearing long pants in Greenwich village -- It is a little absurd and unrealistic at best -- I have no idea what you define as a 'credible newspaper' but we're all fed up really with the so-called credibility of western newspapers.. it seems non-existing at best, especially when it comes with anything to do with Islam...

I think it is great you are sympathizing and I am sure the whole of Australia is along with you, toward those barbaric Muslims-- what more would you like?

[Al-Zaara]

Actually, barrio, I find these news very sad. There are so many bad things in the world happening, it makes you feel kind of empty when you read things like this so often. Everywhere you hear the most horrible and terrifying news, it's becoming part of our daily lives.

You have to understand why people don't react too fiercly about this, there are thousands killed somewhere in the world and when one person's situation is made a tragedy while those thousands have become only statistics, it makes you just shake your head.

I feel really sorry for the lady, I doubt the source and details are 100% accurate, but it is obvious she must be going through a very hard time. Yet again, she is more blessed than other women around the world, facing similiar problems, if not worse. I really hope she'll get through it and won't have to suffer any much longer.

[boriqee]

pls.. I am having such an incredibly difficult time believing this nonsense considering all those women in Mecca (the house of God) with exposed faces praying about while there are men in the same place.. Perhaps the aussie did more than expose her face to the neighbor? that is, if there is actual truth in that article.. and I have lived in Saudi Arabia for four years..our neighbors were lebanese and christian, they loved it!


otherwise, be advised that Saudi Arabia isn't implementing shari'a law, for starters and should be obvious to the naked eye, Sharia'a doesn't run on a monarchy system and if you'd read a little, that would have been your first tip off..

as for us women.. what can I say, we must really love being all meek and feeble so we convert to Islam at a ratio of 5:1

cheers

everything you said is agreed, but if the shriah is negated by a people on the premise of being a monarch, then all of the khulafaa whom the ummah has attested to their being khulafa of islam are non shar'i, all of them outisdie fo the khulfa rashideen. that means the umayyads, abbasi, and uthmaani khulafa are kufr systems in oppositon to shariah on the mere basis of it being a monarchy.

secondly, this is a major misconception in Islam. there is no textual basis AT ALL that monarchy is not a part of Islam. Infact the only textual reality that speaks on the subject is actually affirming it.

the prophet alaihi salatu wa salaam said

"there will be rightly guided caliphs and that will remin for about 30 (years), and then there wil be kingships (i.e. monarcy) and that will remain for however long Allah wishes for it to remain, and then there will be tyrant rulers, and that will remain for whoever long Allah wishes for it to remain, and then there will be rightly guided rulers"

This is the only textual source that even speaks about monarchism, and as it is evidently demonstrated, it does disapprove of it, it just merely mentions that the this reality (of monarchism) will definately occur in our ummah. Of coursethe preferred state is the state of the khulafa ar-rashidoon.

salamu alaikum

[جوري]

everything you said is agreed, but if the shriah is negated by a people on the premise of being a monarch, then all of the khulafaa whom the ummah has attested to their being khulafa of islam are non shar'i, all of them outisdie fo the khulfa rashideen. that means the umayyads, abbasi, and uthmaani khulafa are kufr systems in oppositon to shariah on the mere basis of it being a monarchy.

secondly, this is a major misconception in Islam. there is no textual basis AT ALL that monarchy is not a part of Islam. Infact the only textual reality that speaks on the subject is actually affirming it.

the prophet alaihi salatu wa salaam said

"there will be rightly guided caliphs and that will remin for about 30 (years), and then there wil be kingships (i.e. monarcy) and that will remain for however long Allah wishes for it to remain, and then there will be tyrant rulers, and that will remain for whoever long Allah wishes for it to remain, and then there will be rightly guided rulers"

This is the only textual source that even speaks about monarchism, and as it is evidently demonstrated, it does disapprove of it, it just merely mentions that the this reality (of monarchism) will definately occur in our ummah. Of coursethe preferred state is the state of the khulafa ar-rashidoon.

salamu alaikum

:sl: akhi

I don't think I understand what you were trying to convey to me in your post?
There are many un-islamic things that occur in Saudi Arabia -- need not be mentioned.
I don't from observation believe they are following shari3a-- only in some aspects where it pleases them..
and indeed a monarchy will occur in the umma as mentioned in hadith, as well as other tyrannical totalitarian rule.. we can only hope to establish a khilafah rashida.. but only Allah swt knows of when we are deserving of that system!

:w:

[doorster]

in other words these Saudi playboy rulers are our khulaifah

brilliant deduction!
next someone will come along and tell us that this "lovely pious" family had no hand in demise of Usmani khilafat either

or that they do not squander country's wealth on fake contracts (to receive kickbacks)

or instead of having their own defence industries they don't hire mercenaries for its defence (mostly against its own population)

[جوري]

Thats true about 80 years ago. Then we threw off lots of Religious based laws. We only threw Blasphemy out this year!
Amazing how long it takes for reason to filter into a society when the Church opposes it.

actually it was true from the 1880s until the early 1970s...
http://books.google.com/books?id=4bx...um=1&ct=result

there is no 'reason' in deviance.. your society is simply wishy washy and subject to the whims of queers -- my personal fav though has always been how long the west enjoyed being 'civilized' oh, thirty years or less if at all? yet have the temerity to dictate to others how their laws are backwards and uncivilized..

give me a break mac!

[Amadeus85]

actually it was true from the 1880s until the early 1970s...
http://books.google.com/books?id=4bx...um=1&ct=result

there is no 'reason' in deviance.. your society is simply wishy washy and subject to the whims of queers -- my personal fav though has always been how long the west enjoyed being 'civilized' oh, thirty years or less if at all? yet have the temerity to dictate to others how their laws are backwards and uncivilized..

give me a break mac!

The democracy that we have nowadays in western Europe lasts at least since 1918. Equality under law, free elections, freedom of thoughts, the right to own personal property.
The peasants got personal freedom and land owning during the XIX century. Since 1848-49 most european countries had parliaments, at least in each states.
It was all preluded by hundred years of european history, which has mistakes and tyranny and no one doubts it. The difference is that democracy could have chance to begin here, not in other places of the world.
Living in London, New York or Paris it is easy to criticize democracy, while we all benefit from it. The critics just dont sound honestly.
As for the homosexual marriages, in my opinion, it is a sign that democracy makes mistakes.

[Musaafirah]

.I have copied a newspaper report of an Australian woman being mistreated by her husband and by Islamic law in Saudi Arabia , how can Shariah and /or Islamic law be defended and promoted when these terrible examples are so prevalent.and the unfairness to females so self evident .One would have thought that any muslims lucky enough to escape to a 1st World country would be glad to be shot of such a legal system and embrace a modern humane legal system .

FRom. NEWS >COM >AU ....
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...16-421,00.html
Woman faces arrest for exposing her face
By Miles Kemp
September 20, 2008 02:34am ( Article from: Send this article: Print Email )
AN Adelaide woman trapped in Saudi Arabia says she has been threatened with arrest for exposing her face to a male neighbour in front of her children.
Almost two months after the Foreign Affairs Department said it could not ensure the Australian citizen got out of the country with her four children, she says it has now refused her sanctuary in the consulate and she expects to be arrested today.
The mother of four, who cannot be named because she fears for her safety, contacted The Advertiser from Riyadh yesterday and said Saudi police had threatened to arrest her.
"I am in a very difficult situation here and I have been told now I am going to be arrested because I exposed my face in front of a male neighbour," she said.

The family stays trapped in Saudi Arabia because the woman's ex-husband, also an Australian citizen, has taken their passports and applied for custody in a Saudi court following an acrimonious divorce.
After publicity in July, DFAT agreed to issue passports to the woman and her children on the condition Saudi authorities gave her an exit visa.
The woman said she had also been denied protective shelter in the Australian consulate, despite being the successful applicant for a job there.
In a written statement, a DFAT spokesman said the consulate could not be used to shelter Australians from the local laws.
He said one of the woman's children had been issued an Australian passport but not the other three.
"Australian consular staff at the Australian Embassy in Riyadh will continue to meet the woman's consular needs to the maximum extent possible," the statement said.
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You make it sound like we've all 'escaped' from a backward country or something. What about all the Muslims who believe in a true Islamic state who've been bought up in this so called 'First world country' because they're fed up with the justice system and what not..
Also, you're implying that Saudi Arabia has a truly Islamic State? Who are you kidding?
Is this article actually true though?
Kindly cite other sources if that's the case.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

In all fairness, the situation this person is in has more to do with the DFAT than Saudi's laws (so I think your title is rather misleading!). Though, I should say that I personally disagree with the interpretation of a lot of saudi's islamic laws (partly because they lack common sense!)

Also, I find this following statement very insulting:

..Compassion compassion where is the compassion no one seems to have any compassion for the women and her children , some think it is hilarious and some think it is her fault , so if you can't do the time don't do the crime as the old lags would say say.

Honestly, do you realise what goes on in this world? How am I suppose worry about her when I am worrying about people who are being slaughtered all over the world?! Let me examplify and simplify it for you: Person A is bleeding all over after having being brutalised and raped. Person B has gone through a divorce....who needs compassion? Person A!

It's a matter of priorities; yes this person got screwed over by a system - so have a lot of people. But, she is alive and well - unfortunately there are plenty of people in this world who are far from that status - my compassion (and thus my aid) comes to those people first.

[barrio79]

[QUOTE=aamirsaab;1009075]:sl:

In all fairness, the situation this person is in has more to do with the DFAT than Saudi's laws (so I think your title is rather misleading!). Though, I should say that I personally disagree with the interpretation of a lot of saudi's islamic laws (partly because they lack common sense!)

Also, I find this following statement very insulting:
uote:
..Compassion compassion where is the compassion no one seems to have any compassion for the women and her children , some think it is hilarious and some think it is her fault , so if you can't do the time don't do the crime as the old lags would say .

The above comment was not meant to be insulting but rather a reinforcement of a catchcry that is common to most of the religions of the world ...

[جوري]

as the old lags would say .

The above comment was not meant to be insulting but rather a reinforcement of a catchcry that is common to most of the religions of the world ...

Perhaps the Atheist approach as you suggest is best, by way of lenin/xedong/Hoxa/Saloth sar/Sung I1
million slaughtered en masse without batting an eye lash!

cheers

[barrio79]

Perhaps the Atheist approach as you suggest is best, by way of lenin/xedong/Hoxa/Saloth sar/Sung I1
million slaughtered en masse without batting an eye lash!

cheers

who mentioned atheism; i was talking about the compassion as practiced by the worlds religions

[Malaikah]

Compassion does not equate with letting people off the hook when they break the law.

[جوري]

who mentioned atheism; i was talking about the compassion as practiced by the worlds religions

what is the alternative to world religion in your book?

[aamirsaab]

....

The above comment was not meant to be insulting but rather a reinforcement of a catchcry that is common to most of the religions of the world ...

I don't understand what you mean. Are you somehow insinuating muslims (or rather, theists) are not showing compassion to this person? Of course we show compassion (we're human beings - not bloody ewoks from the planet endor!) - it's just that when compared to people (our muslim brothers and sisters no less!) who are being killed/raped/brutalised etc, this particular woman's situation is pretty well off, all things considered!

And forgive me if this post sounds cold, but quite frankly there are far greater examples of where compassion is needed and am baffled as to why you chose to pick on a divorce case....maybe its because you don't like Islam and want to somehow find and enlighten us all with a hypocritical teaching of Islam, which then proves to be ironic (after someone refutes you) since you fail to understand basic Islamic principles but decide to jump into ''hot topics'' such as sharia law!

Judging by your initial post and some before it, I do believe you fit the aformentioned category (you know, your run of the mill anti-islamic crusader bent on spreading the truth that Islam bites....). In which case, please gather a basic understanding of Islam before you run your mouth off about how bad it is or how it is disrespectful etc etc. You are on an Islamic resource site, afterall - It'd be terribly ironic if you were to leave here without having gained any information about the religion!

[Uthman]

Now now...let's remember to follow our prophet's example in dealing with other people with the best of manners Insha'Allah. :)

[doorster]

Now now...let's remember to follow our prophet's example in dealing with other people with the best of manners Insha'Allah. :)

you can go and apologise to a new one at http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...6-islamic.html

two men got killed at hands of hindu police and a man is here to tell you that their janazah is unislamic because hindus labelled them as terrorists who died in a "shoot-out"

P.S
It is not uncommon for any suspect (of petty crimes or terrorism) who dies in police custody to be taken out then re-"Killed" in "shoot-out"

[Uthman]

:sl: doorster,

Akhee I didn't really understand the meaning of your post, but I apologise for any offence that I may have caused.

:w:

[doorster]

:sl: doorster,

Akhee I didn't really understand the meaning of your post, but I apologise for any offence that I may have caused.

:w:

Wa alaikum Salaam

I am sorry for the confusion, but I was frustrated with thread starter and was glad that members were being firm with him, but when you came up with "

Now now...let's remember to follow our prophet's example in dealing with other people

I thought here we go again, i.e no matter what rubbish allegations trolls come up with, there is a hardcore of members (some LIStaff too) who constantly apologise and waste time on them, 2 or 3 nazis have been here for years and they are still treated as if they have just come to seek clarification of some sort

:w:

[crayon]

Oh, just to add, the title of the thread is misleading, because even if this had been islamic law, this woman is not an "outsider". She is a resident of this country and by living there she is agreeing to uphold its laws, no matter how ridiculous or pointless she may see them as.

[barrio79]

Oh, just to add, the title of the thread is misleading, because even if this had been islamic law, this woman is not an "outsider". She is a resident of this country and by living there she is agreeing to uphold its laws, no matter how ridiculous or pointless she may see them as.

There are a few people around the world who wish others would have obeyed the laws of the country that they were in at the time of some of the weird happenings of recent years; like leaving the trains alone in London or Madrid , or the odd building in Pakistan or New york...

aahh compassion compassion if only their mothers had time to teach them compassion for their fellow man

[جوري]

what we know from the mystery article
1-arrest for exposing her face to a male neighbour in front of her children. ( from what we know and those of us who have lived there, women go with their face uncovered at all times) unless they choose to be niqabis
2-refused her sanctuary in the consulate and she expects to be arrested today( I assume that, it is the consulate of her own mother land that refused her) which is another oddity indeed
3-threatened to arrest her ( seems immanent but never actually takes place)
4- woman's ex-husband, also an Australian citizen, has taken their passports and applied for custody in a Saudi court following an acrimonious divorce. ( details of divorce and why its acrimonious from HER FELLOW AUSTRLIAN and HUSBAND) seem to be withheld.

Can you spot what is wrong here? It isn't missing compassion.. it is missing details from the article.. unless of course 'exposing her face' is a hypocorism for something else?.. which would probably explain a lot..
like why she is to be arrested for a ridiculous act?
why her consulate won't grant her sanctuary?
why her husband is taking custody of the kids?
and why their divorce is acrimonious?..

that is how you should approach an article, so you can keep your wits about you, and not be subject to the emotional delivery of every Tom, Dick and Harry.. although I am personally partial to the speech of Tom

cheers

[barrio79]

what is the alternative to world religion in your book?

there are thousands of religions throughout the world and one is free to choose any of them ; but i was trying to say that most of them have an element of compassion for the less fortunate as part of their belief system.

..
# Christianity: 2.1 billion
# Islam: 1.5 billion
# Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
# Hinduism: 900 million
# Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
# Buddhism: 376 million
# primal-indigenous: 300 million
# African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
# Sikhism: 23 million
# Juche: 19 million
# Spiritism: 15 million
# Judaism: 14 million
# Baha'i: 7 million
# Jainism: 4.2 million
# Shinto: 4 million
# Cao Dai: 4 million
# Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
# Tenrikyo: 2 million
# Neo-Paganism: 1 million
# Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
# Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
# Scientology: 500 thousand

[doorster]

There are a few people around the world who wish others would have obeyed the laws of the country that they were in at the time of some of the weird happenings of recent years; like leaving the trains alone in London or Madrid , or the odd building in Pakistan or New york...

aahh compassion compassion if only their mothers had time to teach them compassion for their fellow man

Ah! I wonder if these students of shaikh google, still have any doubts about your intentions here (i.e anyone Muslim does wrong or is accused of doing wrong the whole of Islaam should be punished)

I bet you are enjoying yourself

Peace!

refutations forum was supposed to be closed for the duration of Ramzaan but they, ever so graciously, allow you to turn general chat in to one

[Hamayun]

Barrio you seem to be on a Crusade where you ignore everything we say except what suits your agenda.

Your mind is made up and you are not willing to listen...

"Compassion.. compassion" Of course what happened was terrible (if there is any truth behind it) but what do you want us to do??? Or better still what have you done to help her? :?

Or are you here to get an apology from all Muslims for the Ignorance of some random person/persons in some corner of the world? :?:?:?

Think before you make accusations. You seem to have no knowledge of Islam and its teachings so please refrain from making ridiculous accusations.

[جوري]

there are thousands of religions throughout the world and one is free to choose any of them ; but i was trying to say that most of them have an element of compassion for the less fortunate as part of their belief system.

..
# Christianity: 2.1 billion
# Islam: 1.5 billion
# Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
# Hinduism: 900 million
# Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
# Buddhism: 376 million
# primal-indigenous: 300 million
# African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
# Sikhism: 23 million
# Juche: 19 million
# Spiritism: 15 million
# Judaism: 14 million
# Baha'i: 7 million
# Jainism: 4.2 million
# Shinto: 4 million
# Cao Dai: 4 million
# Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
# Tenrikyo: 2 million
# Neo-Paganism: 1 million
# Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
# Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
# Scientology: 500 thousand

fascinating indeed except this was your earlier quote

The above comment was not meant to be insulting but rather a reinforcement of a catchcry that is common to most of the religions of the world ...

what am I to deduce? that you are able to search on google for world religions, where just a few posts ago, even if memory fails you, you were complaining of the 'catchcry' which is common amongst them?
Even if your hippocampus fails you, you can use your mighty googling finger to scroll back to what you wrote earlier .. no?

cheers

[جوري]

Ah! I wonder if these students of shaikh google, still have any doubts about your intentions here (i.e anyone Muslim does wrong or is accused of doing wrong the whole of Islaam should be punished)

I bet you are enjoying yourself

Peace!

refutations forum was supposed to be closed for the duration of Ramzaan but they, ever so graciously, allow you to turn general chat in to one

:sl:
sadly he isn't even skilled at what he does, I'd have respect for a proponent with some common sense... but missing here and dwindling even still with each of his successive posts..

:w:

[Malaikah]

aahh compassion compassion if only their mothers had time to teach them compassion for their fellow man

And obviously no one ever taught you how to be objective. :blind:

[barrio79]

Amongst my posts I said :-
“1.The above comment was not meant to be insulting but rather a reinforcement of a catchcry that is common to most of the religions of the world ...”

“2.there are thousands of religions throughout the world and one is free to choose any of them ; but i was trying to say that most of them have an element of compassion for the less fortunate as part of their belief system.”

These two comments are not mutually exclusive but rather they are both positive comments on the fact that the majority religions have compassion listed high on their lists of dogma, which I thought was a good thing. Whereas a lot of responders seemed to be saying that wasting compassion on a women who seems to have committed a misdemeanor is a gross waste of oxygen and I thought that was unusual. Also the reason I only listed a short list of umbrella religious groupings was the fact that to list each and every religion known to man would have taken considerable space and be a monumental task seeing that there are so many many thouasands

But I can handle the sledging..

[جوري]

Amongst my posts I said :-
“1.The above comment was not meant to be insulting but rather a reinforcement of a catchcry that is common to most of the religions of the world ...”

“2.there are thousands of religions throughout the world and one is free to choose any of them ; but i was trying to say that most of them have an element of compassion for the less fortunate as part of their belief system.”

These two comments are not mutually exclusive but rather they are both positive comments on the fact that the majority religions have compassion listed high on their lists of dogma, which I thought was a good thing. Whereas a lot of responders seemed to be saying that wasting compassion on a women who seems to have committed a misdemeanor is a gross waste of oxygen and I thought that was unusual. Also the reason I only listed a short list of umbrella religious groupings was the fact that to list each and every religion known to man would have taken considerable space and be a monumental task seeing that there are so many many thouasands

But I can handle the sledging..

the statements in fact contradict each other.. anyone with elementary level understanding of English can decipher what was meant by your first, and the watering it down by the latter..
be that as it may, listing religions, whether monumental or minuscule, doesn't address each individual dogma.. it just tallies up the count.. it would be more appropriate, say you were trying to establish a study on world dominant religion vs. those falling out of favor. Not whether or not they demand compassion as a basic tenet.

And lastly.. the responses here don't echo whether or not we lack compassion, rather echo incredulity.. There are many unanswered questions which we have posed you on the previous page

for instant why she is being arrested for such a minor offense? or rather I should say repeatedly threatened of arrest with it never actually taking place
2-why her husband is divorcing her, when he if any of us at all should be her champion considering he is also a fellow aussie?
3- certainly not the least of this bunch but another biggie, why their divorce is so acrimonious that he is seeking custody of the kids?..

the story dear member is clearly one sided-- who knows maybe she really is a poor woman being divorced, losing her kids and threatened with arrest for having an exposed face.. if you believe that to be absolute truth, I have a stack of three dollar bills here I'd love to sell you


cheers

[bewildred]

Right from the very topic starter, I knew how the thread would evolve. Comments like that of the Darrio were kinda predictible. So many questions raised and lesser answers given. Islam is LIFE. If one doesn't live it, how can one understand it? To those who jump on easy conclusions, I say "Hey guys, slow down. The Islamic law is fairness and justice in itself. Don't judge upon your own criteria. Never extrapolate it from its context. Open up your mind and accept the fact that you might be wrong."

[barney]

Well I'm a firm beleiver in abiding by the countrys laws that your in at the time.
Perhaps the lady if she did venture out with her hair exposed should petition through Saudi Arabias many resident christian pressure groups to get the King to change the laws specifically for christians, in a similar way that Islamic law courts are opening up in the UK? Quite a simple matter I'm sure.

[جوري]

indeed, except the alleged offense here is exposure of her face

here is a pic of non-saudi women in Saudi Arabia..
**gasps** sandals and face exposure-- and the nerve to pose for picture in a mall in broad day light.. and adorn themselves with a smile? when arrest should be imminent

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...n%26ie%3DUTF-8

[جوري]

and what have we here? no head cover too?

[barrio79]

the statements in fact contradict each other.. anyone with elementary level understanding of English can decipher what was meant by your first, and the watering it down by the latter

i guess we will just have to agree that we have different understanding of the english language perhaps my english teacher was not up to the mark..

[barrio79]

Noun

Singular
catchcry


for those who distrust google here is one definition therefrom...

catchcry (plural catchcries)

1. A slogan, particularly one intended for mass repetition.

[جوري]

Yeah.. except it wasn't the single noun oh learned one, but the statement as a whole..

care to defend your original article now that we've all learned how picture can speak a thousand words?

Perhaps the liberal civilized west can do what it does best and silence any voice of dissent that disagrees with its non-existing values.. starting with the spectacle that is 'freedom of speech', or rather I should say freedom to parrot one type of speech!

cheers