How old is planet earth

[barrio79]

There is much debate on this.
If you're going off of the Bible, it's believed to be about seven to ten thousand years old.
If you go off of evolution, they say between two to four billion years.
Science degree

Scientists find world's oldest rocks
From correspondents in Washington
September 26, 2008 08:43am
Article from: Agence France-Presse
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THE oldest rocks on Earth have been discovered in Canada, offering scientists a glimpse at the origins of the planet.
The rocks, found in a belt of ancient bedrock in Quebec, are estimated to be 4.28 billion years old.
The find pushes back the age of the most ancient discovered remnants of the Earth's crust by 300 million years.
In-depth: More science and nature news
"Our discovery (...) opens the door to further unlock the secrets of the Earth's beginnings,'' said Jonathan O'Neil, lead author of the study and a geologist at McGill University in Montreal, who collected and analysed the rocks.
"Geologists now have a new playground to explore how and when life began, what the atmosphere may have looked like, and when the first continent formed,'' said Dr O'Neil.
The rocks also suggest that continents formed very early in the Earth's history, said Richard Carlson at the Carnegie Institution in Washington, co-author of the study, to be published in the September 26 edition of the journal Science.
Estimates of the rocks' age were made using isotopic dating, a technique which can only be used to date rocks roughly 4.1 billion years old or older.
This is the first time the technique has been used to date terrestrial rocks, because nothing else this old has ever been discovered on Earth.
The specimens were found in an area known as the Nuvvuagittuq greenstone belt, along the eastern shore of Hudson Bay in northern Quebec, a region recognised in 2001 as being a potential site for finding ancient rocks.

[doorster]

its so confusing with same topics over and over again

try your luck @ http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...age-earth.html

[barney]

It has been done to death. Islam dosnt specifically say that the geneologys of the bible are correct and so, now the earth has been proved to be billions of years old and mankind up to 150,000 years old, this dosnt contradict islam.

The question thats really raised by the age of the earth is why did Allah wait 147,000 years before sending messengers?

[islamirama]

It has been done to death. Islam dosnt specifically say that the geneologys of the bible are correct and so, now the earth has been proved to be billions of years old and mankind up to 150,000 years old, this dosnt contradict islam.

The question thats really raised by the age of the earth is why did Allah wait 147,000 years before sending messengers?

You have been on this forum long enough to know (maybe) that humans weren't the first creatures on the earth. You're right that Islam doesn't specifically says how old earth is or what not. Allah gave it command to Be and gave it time it needed to Be. Long before humans came along, the species of jinns had existed. And we don't know how long they have existed, but we say pretty long especially since their life span is measured not in decades (like ours) but rather in centuries.

As to why Allah waited that long to send the Messengers. All that is guess work and speculative as to how old earth is or how long ago we came, but the very first man Adam was also the very first Prophet. Allah wouldn't just drop Adam and Eve off without giving them guidance. And rest of the Prophets and Messengers came when Allah thought it best to send them.

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[YusufNoor]

It has been done to death. Islam dosnt specifically say that the geneologys of the bible are correct and so, now the earth has been proved to be billions of years old and mankind up to 150,000 years old, this dosnt contradict islam.

The question thats really raised by the age of the earth is why did Allah wait 147,000 years before sending messengers?

Peace Barney,

you haven't laid the foundation for your last statement.

the Qur'an says:

[16.36] And certainly We raised in every nation an apostle saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan. So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due; therefore travel in the land, then see what was the.end of the rejecters.

[22.34] And to every nation We appointed acts of devotion that they may mention the name of Allah on what He has given them of the cattle quadrupeds; so your God is One God, therefore to Him should you submit, and give good news to the humble,

EVERY Nation got a warner! you imply different...

:w:

[جوري]

The message is sent on folks of reason, not animals.. not gorillas, not your uncle erectus-- they are simply not held accountable, anymore than a dog in this day and age is held accountable.....

[barney]

Thanks for the answers.

I suppose it goes back to my earlier thread, "was Adam a cavemen".
Assuming that all the nations got a warner/messenger, then the Inuits (eskimo's) and the Aztecs and Native Americans also got their warners too.
I wonder what happened to them. Clearly the ancesteral spirits and the animal gods have little that equates with Islam, so whoever these messengers were with those nations, their message diddnt take hold.

That brings up "Why".
Allahs message took hold with the Arabs of 630AD, and this was i'm sure you would agree his will.
The obvious conclusion is that despite sending the messenger, it was not his will for the other nations to listen to these messengers, or indeed make any note of them.

[جوري]

Thanks for the answers.

I suppose it goes back to my earlier thread, "was Adam a cavemen".
Assuming that all the nations got a warner/messenger, then the Inuits (eskimo's) and the Aztecs and Native Americans also got their warners too.
I wonder what happened to them. Clearly the ancesteral spirits and the animal gods have little that equates with Islam, so whoever these messengers were with those nations, their message diddnt take hold.

That brings up "Why".
Allahs message took hold with the Arabs of 630AD, and this was i'm sure you would agree his will.
The obvious conclusion is that despite sending the messenger, it was not his will for the other nations to listen to these messengers, or indeed make any note of them.

Why are you so concerned with the fate of other nations? or What Adam was? Also have you gone to every house hold through out all the ages and conducted a survey on what it is they worshiped overtly or covertly to draw your usual inane conclusions to happily share your observations with the rest of us?

Each person should be concerned with his/her own deeds.. I suggest you busy yourself with yours, you know death could be just one breath away.. I am not sure your platitudes or your acid humor will be of any value, on the day or recompense!

[barney]

I have a sense of humour? News to me!

Why am I concerned?
I'm not concerned, i'm interested.
I would have thought a lot of muslims are interested too. You can certainly burrow into concern about your own deeds, but this dosnt nesseccerily exclude concern for others deeds. As a doctor, you relish finding out new infomation. Why not in theology too?

[جوري]

I believe the operative word here is 'new'?
the answers are obvious to me, and have already been addressed in the Quran itself.. the question isn't one of interest, rather confidence in the answers!


Now.. It is also my belief that tonight is layelat al'qadr.. and would rather spend whatever is left of the evening repeating the benefits of the day, than arguing bromides..


cheers

[doorster]

Thanks for the answers.

I suppose it goes back to my earlier thread, "was Adam a cavemen".
Assuming that all the nations got a warner/messenger, then the Inuits (eskimo's) and the Aztecs and Native Americans also got their warners too.
I wonder what happened to them. Clearly the ancesteral spirits and the animal gods have little that equates with Islam, so whoever these messengers were with those nations, their message diddnt take hold.

That brings up "Why".
Allahs message took hold with the Arabs of 630AD, and this was i'm sure you would agree his will.
The obvious conclusion is that despite sending the messenger, it was not his will for the other nations to listen to these messengers, or indeed make any note of them.

that is all trolling nonsense innay? if you do not mind me saying so

Assuming that all the nations got a Warner/messenger, then the Inuits (eskimo's) and the Aztecs and Native Americans also got their warners too.
I wonder what happened to them. Clearly the ancestral spirits and the animal gods have little that equates with Islam, so whoever these messengers were with those nations, their message diddnt take hold.

Arabs are all and the only Muslims?? really? ooh I must be an arab and never even knew it nor do the rest of non-Arab Muslims

chinese whispers: A game for several players in which a phrase is whispered by each person in turn to their neighbour, the phrase often being unwittingly misunderstood as it is transferred, to humorous effect by the time it reaches the last person and is compared with the original phrase; Anything resembling this ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Chinese whispers

given enough time man can distort/deviate/change/evolve anything into something else.

what is the point in messing around with distant past? where only response can be guesswork (which no doubt amuses you) and wastes forum resources as well as everyone's time.

if man can change Hazrat Eesa (Christ) to a god why cant the ones before him meet the same fate over time?

Has God really abandoned Native Americans?? you mean none of them are able to go back to Religion of Hazraat Aadam, Nuh. Ibrahim, Musa, Eesa and the last Prophet of Islaam(may Peace be upon them all)?

[abdunnur]

It is interesting and hard question, but not so important for us like is so important for unmuslims. First man ( Adem a.s.) was not in -stone age. When he come to Earth he did not discovered fire, writting, etc...He came to planet, and was teached about names of all things. Today, there is 2 kind of archeologyis: 1 prefer Darwin, other prefer creationism. All proof about evolution is failed. We are not of monkey. Old of Earth? It is interesting, but if it was important, Muhammed a.s. was informed us about it. He did not.

[barney]

that is all trolling nonsense innay? if you do not mind me saying so

No, i dont mind, thats fine.

Arabs are all and the only Muslims?? really? ooh I must be an arab and never even knew it nor do the rest of non-Arab Muslims

....... you mean none of them are able to go back to Religion of Hazraat Aadam, Nuh. Ibrahim, Musa, Eesa and the last Prophet of Islaam(may Peace be upon them all)?

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying the only muslims are Arab, but the only muslims today are those who are following the message spread by various means originally by the arabs.
This dosnt answer who were the other messengers, or even if their is any proof (non Quranic) that they existed, or what happened to them.
Perhaps its an area that muslims dont feel the need to investigate?
I would have thought that this must have been investigated at some point by the Islamic Scholars as many other areas of islams influence have been.
Theres quite a lively debate at the moment, recently on radio, about how English law is decended from Islamic law via the Templar's. If thats a subject for muslim investigation, surely finding out about the other messengers Allah sent to all nations is more so?

[جوري]

I think when you question, it is to gain not only knowledge on the matter, but that it is also useful for you. And that is why most disciplines have a continuing education and demand that you always be current.

When you question about law, jurisprudence, inheritance, messengers etc, it is true it will benefit you in your after life for having lived righteously but it is also meant to serve your existence here on earth.

Knowledge of some remote people on some remote island, has no impact whatsoever on anyone, for even if they were 'monotheists' their fate ultimately lies with God.. or do we simply want to appease ourselves of their fate?

Already in the Quran Allah swt states

59] Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its centre a Messenger, rehearsing to them Our Signs: nor are We going to destroy a population except when its members practise iniquity.

and although I can't find the verse this moment

No one is punished unless they were given the message whom the people refused in favor of their old customs...

So even if I am to go by the neglected remote population..
they simply won't be held accountable.. Many people will be raised on intent and their actual trials will begin on the day of judgment..

But our trials start from now.. which again brings me to the point.. we should all worry about our own backside before worrying about the population of Āina Haina Hawaii which contrary to popular belief doesn't mean hind's land to its discoverer.


cheers

[barney]

I think when you question, it is to gain not only knowledge on the matter, but that it is also useful for you. And that is why most disciplines have a continuing education and demand that you always be current.

.....Knowledge of some remote people on some remote island, has no impact whatsoever on anyone, for even if they were 'monotheists' their fate ultimately lies with God..

Not all knowlage gained will be useful. The CERN scientists dont know that they will find anything. Theyre trying and spending decades and trillions of dollars because its a mountain to climb. You are aware how drugs are discovered? How countless inventions and laws of scince are found by simply seeking knowlage for knowlages sake?

However finding the other messengers Allah stated he has sent would be of use.
It would open up new areas of history, confirm the quran thus acting as a base for Islam to be adopted in all nations.
Christians Jews and Juche-adherents alike would be amazed at gods perfect message being found , identical to the Quran, tens of thousands of years before mohammed was even born. The world would unite under the banner of islam and the House of Islam would be complete.

There are thousands of nations/tribes, if each got a messenger then some remains of these thousands of message's all identical to that revealed to mohammed and uncorrupted by the jews may be found yes?

[جوري]

Not all knowlage gained will be useful. The CERN scientists dont know that they will find anything. Theyre trying and spending decades and trillions of dollars because its a mountain to climb.

However finding the other messengers Allah stated he has sent would be of use.
It would open up new areas of history, confirm the quran thus acting as a base for Islam to be adopted in all nations.
Christians Jews and Juche-adherents alike would be amazed at gods perfect message being found , identical to the Quran, tens of thousands of years before mohammed was even born. The world would unite under the banner of islam and the House of Islam would be complete.

There are thousands of nations/tribes, if each got a messenger then some remains of these thousands of message's all identical to that revealed to mohammed and uncorrupted by the jews may be found yes?

I always enjoy the additives and the preservatives you inject into your post, it makes me want to stop reading further.. and wonder in amazement at how your mind functions

You need to define yourself the difference between a messenger and a prophet before we proceed, as I so hate wasting my time while in the midst of another thread, which I hope is of use to people.

Where are the books that John the Baptist, Enoch, Solomon Luqman, Saleh etc etc etc brought? Books and their tenets are reserved for when people are mature enough to handle them.. mostly everything was of oral tradition. All one needed to do was point his people to the oneness of God over all else .. and you'll find amongst ancient Egypt, before the Torah one Pharaoh who worshiped neither sun nor moon nor cats but the one God for instance Akhnaton.
Maybe he was an odd ball, for all intensive purposes he was... others like him I am sure sprang everywhere only to be met with the usual mockery and ridicule as is mentioned in sura number 23...

No it is really not a big deep mystery.. If I were you and this genuinely sparked my interest, I'd research ancient people, and see who in their midst was an atheist, who was a monotheist and who worshiped the spirit in the rocks instead of bugging me about it..

cheers

[barney]

I always enjoy the additives and the preservatives you inject into your post, it makes me want to stop reading further.. and wonder in amazement at how your mind functions

You need to define yourself the difference between a messenger and a prophet before we proceed, as I so hate wasting my time while in the midst of another thread, which I hope is of use to people.

Where are the books that John the Baptist, Enoch, Solomon Luqman, Saleh etc etc etc brought? Books and their tenets are reserved for when people are mature enough to handle them.. mostly everything was of oral tradition. All one needed to do was point his people to the oneness of God over all else .. and you'll find amongst ancient Egypt, before the Torah one Pharaoh who worshiped neither sun nor moon nor cats but the one God for instance Akhnaton.
Maybe he was an odd ball, for all intensive purposes he was... others like him I am sure sprang everywhere only to be met with the usual mockery and ridicule as is mentioned in sura number 23...

No it is really not a big deep mystery.. If I were you and this genuinely sparked my interest, I'd research ancient people, and see who in their midst was an atheist, who was a monotheist and who worshiped the spirit in the rocks instead of bugging me about it..

cheers

I have no idea how my mind works either. It just keeps spitting out random ideas,I cant stop it even by applying liberal quantities of alchohol.

Johns book and many others were discovered in a tomb, they are known as the gnostic Gosples or the Lost Gosples. Thomas, Mary and many others wrote gospels. They were destroyed by the thousand by the church as heresy.

The idea of one god has floated with the idea of many for millenia as you know.
Polytheism has been blotted out, mostly violently, by monotheism.
There were few atheists per-se in ancient times. Lets face it, if you diddnt beleive in the sheep god or whoever, you got your head chopped off. times move on eh?
In times of ignorance it's perhaps natural to look at the big glowy ball in the sky and call it god, or the raging sea and call that god.

I'm certainly not "bugging" you personally about it. Simply put me on /ignore, only takes a few seconds.

So would you agree that if Allah sent all nations a prophet or a messenger then the Quran was given to other people? Perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago?
JONAH19) Men were once a community of one faith; but they differed (and followed different ways). Had it not been for the word proclaimed by your Lord before, their differences would have been resolved.

[barney]

, it makes me want to stop reading further.. and wonder in amazement at how your mind functions

JONAH 100) Are you going to compel the people to believe except by God’s dispensation? He puts doubt in (the minds of) those who do not think.

That should clear it up :)

[جوري]

I have no idea how my mind works either. It just keeps spitting out random ideas,I cant stop it even by applying liberal quantities of alchohol.

I rather think it is the liberal amount of alcohol that permits your random confabulations.. I really wouldn't call those ideas as the great majority are a nonsequitur.

Johns book and many others were discovered in a tomb, they are known as the gnostic Gosples or the Lost Gosples. Thomas, Mary and many others wrote gospels. They were destroyed by the thousand by the church as heresy.

Who knows maybe he had a book, maybe he didn't.. it certainly is of no great concern either way.. the whole reason for God to send books, is because what preceded went missing or corrupted.. what matters if what impact that had on John and thos that believed in what he brought. who in fact still exist today in some parts of Iraq, called Mandeans/ Sabeans .. they too are considered people of the book.. as well mentioned in surat al-baqara --chapter II in the Quran you are very well versed in and familiar with :D

The idea of one god has floated with the idea of many for millenia as you know.

I know you enjoy the rhetorical device given your condition.. yes!

Polytheism has been blotted out, mostly violently, by monotheism.

eh.. you can rally for their cause, if that aggrieves you!

There were few atheists per-se in ancient times. Lets face it, if you diddnt beleive in the sheep god or whoever, you got your head chopped off. times move on eh?

Not true.. in the Quran you've read plenty and very familiar with as our friend Glo in her recent Q.. you must have come across many a folks who believed in nothing!

In times of ignorance it's perhaps natural to look at the big glowy ball in the sky and call it god, or the raging sea and call that god.

Indeed that is what Abraham thought, and questioned, well what happens when the sun sets, and what happens when the wind brings down mountains, and rain washes out crops, and what happens when a shooting star nearly misses the neighboring village -- he too was the only monotheist in a village who literally took him to the fire for his solo belief in the one God.. Hence he was thought of as an Island, and the father of monotheism, and Allah swt took him for a friend!

I'm certainly not "bugging" you personally about it. Simply put me on /ignore, only takes a few seconds.

ah but by nature I enjoy excising, cauterizing, and ablating things.. that is really what keeps me coming!

So would you agree that if Allah sent all nations a prophet or a messenger then the Quran was given to other people? Perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago?

How do you figure?

JONAH19) Men were once a community of one faith; but they differed (and followed different ways). Had it not been for the word proclaimed by your Lord before, their differences would have been resolved.

Truly I have no idea what point you want to assert with this?
are you promoting homogeneity by way say of no religion? a la mode of xedong/Hoxha/Lenin,Sar/ and Sung I1? because no religion had it right?

cheers

[جوري]

JONAH 100) Are you going to compel the people to believe except by God’s dispensation? He puts doubt in (the minds of) those who do not think.

That should clear it up :)

Actually it really doesn't -- not the first nor the second time I am afraid :hmm: ..

Now if you'll excuse me, I have three other diagnostics in infectious disease that I need to add to my other thread...

cheers

[barney]

Who knows maybe he had a book, maybe he didn't.. it certainly is of no great concern either way.. the whole reason for God to send books, is because what preceded went missing or corrupted.. what matters if what impact that had on John and thos that believed in what he brought. who in fact still exist today in some parts of Iraq, called Mandeans/ Sabeans .. they too are considered people of the book.. as well mentioned in surat al-baqara --chapter II in the Quran you are very well versed in and familiar with :D!

So the only way to show if Johns book was "real" would be if it was exactly the same as the quran? Lets take a single god. Ra for instance off the top of my head. plenty of pre-abrahamites worshipped Ra as their only god. Thats however not a sign that the beleifs of Ra's followers were inspired let alone revealed to the egyptians by Allah, (and they just got the name wrong),. Ra had his own story, his own legends his own dogma etc etc. None of which was in any real way similar to Islam.
We can take two things from this. Either:
1) The Egyptians were given the message and they corrupted it, by basically throwing everything out and making up new stories that had nothing to do with Gods real message.
2) Ra was a made-up God with nothing to do with Islam. The egypians were not sent a messanger, or they were sent a messenger and his message was discarded/wiped out by the followers of Ra and all the other Gods, Seth/Horus etc.

So it is possible that there are equivelent messages, written into ancient Navaho writings or legends.They may or may not have been corrupted.

I know you enjoy the rhetorical device given your condition.. yes!

Yup, floats my boat.:)

eh.. you can rally for their cause, if that aggrieves you!

Oh I do. I'm all for rallying against intolerance and pointless bloodshed as I'm sure you are.

Not true.. in the Quran you've read plenty and very familiar with as our friend Glo in her recent Q.. you must have come across many a folks who believed in nothing!

Nope.There are Polytheists and unbeleivers in scriptures. The unbeleivers are people who dont beleive in Yahweh or allah. Theyre not unbeleivers in any god.
Some ancient atheists did exist but generally it was a good idea to go through the motions of beleif in fear of the backlash.

Indeed that is what Abraham thought, and questioned, well what happens when the sun sets, and what happens when the wind brings down mountains, and rain washes out crops, and what happens when a shooting star nearly misses the neighboring village -- he too was the only monotheist in a village who literally took him to the fire for his solo belief in the one God.. Hence he was thought of as an Island, and the father of monotheism, and Allah swt took him for a friend!

Whoah! What about Adam? Wasnt he the first Monotheist? Are we saying here that Humans spread from the middle east all over the world! Are we also saying that only by looking at the shooting stars "missing" a village etc that Abraham decided that there was one God? God sent him angels, thats kinda hard to argue with.

ah but by nature I enjoy excising, cauterizing, and ablating things.. that is really what keeps me coming!

Well great. We are all happy. If you enjoy circling my posts like a hungry vulture then stop moaning about something you enjoy doing!:D
Islam has been followed for 1400 years by billions of Muslims, I hardly think a middleaged fat bald and mostly drunken Yorkshireman is going to debunk anything.

How do you figure?

Bah. basically repeating myself.
The Quran says all nations were sent a messenger. The quran is the word of god, gods perfect, so it has to be true. Hence messengers were sent.
So why dont they show up anywhere in any Writing/legends/stories/sagas/cave paintings/you-tube vids. Why does the Quran only reference things that appear in the Jewish Torah and Christian writings of 150AD

Truly I have no idea what point you want to assert with this?
are you promoting homogeneity by way say of no religion? a la mode of xedong/Hoxha/Lenin,Sar/ and Sung I1? because no religion had it right?

cheers

All people were of one faith. That faith was Islam. So they had to learn islam from someone/thing. They differed about the faith. If it hadnt been for the word god sent before, their differences would have been resolved.

To be honest this brings up about 30 new questions for me, all of them horribly convoluted! Before i start diving in, i think I'd better get a muslim perspective on what this verse is Supposed to mean!

[islamirama]

:offtopic::offtopic::offtopic:

[barney]

Yeah i suppose it is completly off topic, so when comparative religion opens up again, i'll start a new thread.
Any chance all this can be shifted to such a thread cos i think both me and sky have come up with some interesting stuff?

[جوري]

So the only way to show if Johns book was "real" would be if it was exactly the same as the quran? Lets take a single god. Ra for instance off the top of my head. plenty of pre-abrahamites worshipped Ra as their only god. Thats however not a sign that the beleifs of Ra's followers were inspired let alone revealed to the egyptians by Allah, (and they just got the name wrong),. Ra had his own story, his own legends his own dogma etc etc. None of which was in any real way similar to Islam.
We can take two things from this. Either:

To wrap it up and cut the crap, because this is indeed a waste on the most holy night of the entire month, tell me why would it be like the Quran?

قُل لَّوْ كَانَ الْبَحْرُ مِدَادًا لِّكَلِمَاتِ رَبِّي لَنَفِدَ الْبَحْرُ قَبْلَ أَن تَنفَدَ كَلِمَاتُ رَبِّي وَلَوْ جِئْنَا بِمِثْلِهِ مَدَدًا {109}

[Pickthal 18:109] Say: Though the sea became ink for the Words of my Lord, verily the sea would be used up before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even though We brought the like thereof to help.

So again, perhaps you need to explain to me why other books have to be exactly like the Quran?

1) The Egyptians were given the message and they corrupted it, by basically throwing everything out and making up new stories that had nothing to do with Gods real message.
2) Ra was a made-up God with nothing to do with Islam. The egypians were not sent a messanger, or they were sent a messenger and his message was discarded/wiped out by the followers of Ra and all the other Gods, Seth/Horus etc.

Ra was the sun King.. I have no reason to believe the Egyptians were given a book, just persons who peaks by divine inspiration of the one God, and I have given an example of a monotheist pharaoh pre Moses!
Eventually, there was Moses, There was also Joseph who had no books but had prophetic dreams and spoke of the same God.. I mention him over his father because he was given a very high status in Egypt!

So it is possible that there are equivelent messages, written into ancient Navaho writings or legends.They may or may not have been corrupted.

I really have no idea where you are going with this? Considering the Quotes given to you earlier.. Anyone not given a message will not be punished as per Quran.. I don't know what the Navajos were given pre Mohammed PBUH.. I don't believe the world was as isolated as you'd like to believe.. Ancient Egyptians were in America way before Columbus took credit for it!

Yup, floats my boat.:)

Apparently you float alot of people's boats.. just not your wife's? :D

Oh I do. I'm all for rallying against intolerance and pointless bloodshed as I'm sure you are.

Personally, I lust for blood sports..

Nope.There are Polytheists and unbeleivers in scriptures. The unbeleivers are people who dont beleive in Yahweh or allah. Theyre not unbeleivers in any god.
Some ancient atheists did exist but generally it was a good idea to go through the motions of beleif in fear of the backlash.

Really.. why do you suppose folks ask these sort of questions as per Quran

وَلَئِنْ أَطَعْتُم بَشَرًا مِثْلَكُمْ إِنَّكُمْ إِذًا لَّخَاسِرُونَ {34}

[Pickthal 23:34] If ye were to obey a mortal like yourselves, then, lo! ye surely would be losers.

أَيَعِدُكُمْ أَنَّكُمْ إِذَا مِتُّمْ وَكُنتُمْ تُرَابًا وَعِظَامًا أَنَّكُم مُّخْرَجُونَ {35}

[Pickthal 23:35] Doth he promise you that you, when ye are dead and have become dust and bones, will (again) be brought forth?

هَيْهَاتَ هَيْهَاتَ لِمَا تُوعَدُونَ {36}
[Pickthal 23:36] Begone, begone, with that which ye are promised!

إِنْ هِيَ إِلَّا حَيَاتُنَا الدُّنْيَا نَمُوتُ وَنَحْيَا وَمَا نَحْنُ بِمَبْعُوثِينَ {37}

[Pickthal 23:37] There is naught but our life of the world; we die and we live, and we shall not be raised (again).


Sounds to me like folks who don't believe Ra, or Odin or shaka zulu is going to put them back together again, once they are dead there were no Gods waiting.. what do you think, oh one who has read the Quran?

Whoah! What about Adam? Wasnt he the first Monotheist? Are we saying here that Humans spread from the middle east all over the world! Are we also saying that only by looking at the shooting stars "missing" a village etc that Abraham decided that there was one God? God sent him angels, thats kinda hard to argue with.

There were no other monotheists around the time of Abraham, so he is indeed considered the first of his kind for his time.. we don't know how far back Adam lived, could have been eons before him and Abraham..
just like prophet Mohamed PBUh was the first amongst his people who worshipped manat, Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza in lieu the one God, further though they detested women, Manat was a female goddess!
so he too is considered a first amongst his people!

Well great. We are all happy. If you enjoy circling my posts like a hungry vulture then stop moaning about something you enjoy doing!:D
Islam has been followed for 1400 years by billions of Muslims, I hardly think a middleaged fat bald and mostly drunken Yorkshireman is going to debunk anything.

I know you like to lick your wounds and shelter your own ego by believing your non-questions are something of substance. But you are inept least considering your self-professed knowledge of Islam and the QUran. And I do enjoy making a spectacle of you on occasion especially when you decide to go quoting wiki articles without understanding the content of what your quote :D

Bah. basically repeating myself.
The Quran says all nations were sent a messenger. The quran is the word of god, gods perfect, so it has to be true. Hence messengers were sent.
So why dont they show up anywhere in any Writing/legends/stories/sagas/cave paintings/you-tube vids. Why does the Quran only reference things that appear in the Jewish Torah and Christian writings of 150AD

Quran doesn't reference things only in Judeo/Christian beliefs why just a paragraph ago I referenced you to Manat, and the rest.. .. but this time I insist you read the Quran which you've practically mustered.. amongst other things you'll find reference to gods not mentioned in preceding books

أَفَرَأَيْتُمُ اللَّاتَ وَالْعُزَّى {19}

[Pickthal 53:19] Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza

وَمَنَاةَ الثَّالِثَةَ الْأُخْرَى {20}

[Pickthal 53:20] And Manat, the third, the other?

أَلَكُمُ الذَّكَرُ وَلَهُ الْأُنثَى {21}

[Pickthal 53:21] Are yours the males and His the females?

تِلْكَ إِذًا قِسْمَةٌ ضِيزَى {22}

[Pickthal 53:22] That indeed were an unfair division!

إِنْ هِيَ إِلَّا أَسْمَاء سَمَّيْتُمُوهَا أَنتُمْ وَآبَاؤُكُم مَّا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ بِهَا مِن سُلْطَانٍ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَمَا تَهْوَى الْأَنفُسُ وَلَقَدْ جَاءهُم مِّن رَّبِّهِمُ الْهُدَى {23}

[Pickthal 53:23] They are but names which ye have named, ye and your fathers, for which Allah hath revealed no warrant. They follow but a guess and that which (they) themselves desire. And now the guidance from their Lord hath come unto them.


.. furthermore there are cave carvings of expulsion from Eden that pre-date Judaism, as I have personally attended a lecture on it, at the Walters, will look it up for you when I have the time..
other than that, of fate of other nations is a question you should address to the Christians and Jews.. ask them of the fate of all those non-Israelite, as well the fate of those who refuse to worship the man Jesus who was in fact also sent to the lost sheep of Bani Israel-- perhaps Their God doesn't care for the rest of humanity, but that isn't what Islam teaches!

All people were of one faith. That faith was Islam. So they had to learn islam from someone/thing. They differed about the faith. If it hadnt been for the word god sent before, their differences would have been resolved.

2:213. Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.


as per the QUran you read and purposefully misapprehend!

To be honest this brings up about 30 new questions for me, all of them horribly convoluted! Before i start diving in, i think I'd better get a muslim perspective on what this verse is Supposed to mean!

Great...try to make the beginning match the end as much as possible with your next set, I hate sorting through heaps of junk especially in the best night of Ramadan

cheers

[ummzayd]

Thanks for the answers.

I suppose it goes back to my earlier thread, "was Adam a cavemen".
Assuming that all the nations got a warner/messenger, then the Inuits (eskimo's) and the Aztecs and Native Americans also got their warners too.
I wonder what happened to them. Clearly the ancesteral spirits and the animal gods have little that equates with Islam, so whoever these messengers were with those nations, their message diddnt take hold.

That brings up "Why".
Allahs message took hold with the Arabs of 630AD, and this was i'm sure you would agree his will.
The obvious conclusion is that despite sending the messenger, it was not his will for the other nations to listen to these messengers, or indeed make any note of them.

I know this is off topic but I couldn't help replying. I think in native American culture there are indeed vestiges of a belief in One God, and a pious lifestyle in which the Islamic spirit can be discerned. Whenever I have read about native Americans (I mean written by themselves) and their beliefs the similarity with Islamic beliefs about God struck me quite forcefully. Here's a conversion story where the lady explains a little about what she as a native american was brought up to believe.

http://www.theamerican-----------/tam...muslims_story/

And just to keep my message on topic I will say that the Qur'an, which came to set the record straight after the previous scriptures had been corrupted, did not say that the earth was only a few thousand years old, so it's no big deal for Muslims if science says the earth is billions of years old. We don't have to tie ourselves in knots to reconcile science and our scripture. Time within this universe is a creation of God so what is a few billion years to Him?

Peace

[جوري]

Baraka Allah feeki ukhty.. pls if you are up for qyam elyel make du3a for me..

Jazaki Allah khyran

:w:

[Malaikah]

I suppose it goes back to my earlier thread, "was Adam a cavemen".
Assuming that all the nations got a warner/messenger, then the Inuits (eskimo's) and the Aztecs and Native Americans also got their warners too.
I wonder what happened to them. Clearly the ancesteral spirits and the animal gods have little that equates with Islam, so whoever these messengers were with those nations, their message diddnt take hold.

Nothing new. You've read the Quran, I believe, right? If so, you should already know that there is nothing new about Messengers being rejected by their people.

There are thousands of nations/tribes, if each got a messenger then some remains of these thousands of message's all identical to that revealed to mohammed and uncorrupted by the jews may be found yes?

It depends on what you mean. You aren't going to find a copy of the Quran - because only Muhammad was given the Quran. We don't share law with the older generations, only beliefs (such as God is One, mankind came from Adam, there is a resurrection, heaven and hell etc). I highly doubt we would be able to find records that old, anyway.

So would you agree that if Allah sent all nations a prophet or a messenger then the Quran was given to other people? Perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago?

Again, a big emphatic, NO! Only Muhammad was given the Quran, some other Messengers were given their own books (which are not the Quran).

So why dont they show up anywhere in any Writing/legends/stories/sagas/cave paintings/you-tube vids. Why does the Quran only reference things that appear in the Jewish Torah and Christian writings of 150AD

That is not true - there are stories in the Quran not mentioned in hte Jewish or Christians texts - such as the stories of the people of 'Ad and Thamud.