Persecution of China's Muslims worse than Tibet!

[islamirama]

Chinese Muslims Too Scared to Talk


The same muttered phrase greets any curious visitor who strays into the mosques and bazaars dotting towns in Xinjiang province in China's remote northwest.



"We don't dare talk," members of the Uighur ethnic minority whisper, coming from prayers or as they head out shopping.




One or two who are braver, or more foolish, glance around to scout for eavesdroppers before complaining about how hard it is to find jobs, educate their children or practice their religion.



Xinjiang is nominally autonomous and ruled by the Uighurs - Muslims with Caucasian features who speak a Turkic language - and other ethnic minorities.



But since Mao's troops seized China in 1949 and took control of the region, Beijing has maintained a firm grip on the levers of power and made Uighurs a minority in their own area by encouraging millions of Han Chinese to settle there.



Any incautious criticism of Chinese rule can land a Uighur in prison, exiled activists say.


Xinjiang strategic



Only formally incorporated into China in 1884, Xinjiang saw a brief period of virtual independence from 1938 when it sought aid from the Soviet Union - giving added impetus to a 150-year fight for an independent East Turkestan homeland.



But the province is strategically vital to Beijing.


It sits on a third of the country's oil and 40% of its coal, accounts for around one-sixth of Chinese territory and gives it a border with several central Asian nations.



Chinese officials say that while tight control is needed to stamp out separatist sentiment and "terrorist ideas" imported from countries such as Afghanistan, the 19-million-strong

population basically lives in harmony.



"Our biggest threat to ethnic relations is Osama bin Ladin and the Taliban," Bai Hua, vice-mayor of the regional capital, Urumqi, told Reuters, waving away suggestions of domestic discontent.


Terrorism fears exploited



But with the last serious violence dating back to the late 1990s - nine died in riots in Yining in 1997 - some say China is exploiting international fears of terrorism.



"China very clearly wants to show the world that it too is a victim of terrorism, to vilify Uighurs' political activities," Dilxat Raxit, the Sweden-based spokesman of the World Uighur Congress, said.



He said after the 11 September 2001 attacks on the United States "the Chinese started arresting Uighurs anywhere and for anything ... they did it outside any legal framework".



Even financial success and government praise are no guarantee of immunity from the region's prisons.




Rebiya Kadeer, an exiled businesswoman, was on a consultative body to China's parliament.



But she was detained in 1999 and charged with providing state secrets to foreign institutions after sending newspaper clippings about separatist groups to her husband in the United States.



A network of informants also sows distrust, Uighurs say.


Riots


In the border town of Horgas, officials said they rely on their whole population to prevent a repeat of the riots.



"Ordinary people are very vigilant. As soon as they discover some kind of problem, they go straight to the government or public security bureau to report it," Jia Yisheng, a senior party official, told visiting journalists.




But experts say that if Uighurs were allowed to control and enjoy their own culture there would be far less support for secession and Beijing's heavy hand might not be necessary.



"Many Uighurs are more moderate, and would be content with a more autonomous state within China," said one Western diplomat.



China believes an ambitious campaign to develop poorer western regions is bringing Xinjiang the kind of prosperity that countries in Central Asia can only envy. Uighurs say the programme offers little for them.



The influx of Han Chinese - often better educated, better connected and with the language skills to tap into government subsidies - makes it hard for Uighurs to compete.



"The Han work a lot, we just pray a lot," said one man filing out of a run-down small-town mosque.


Mosque, education ban

Most Uighurs are also effectively barred from joining the Communist Party - often a route to improvement in poorer areas of China - by a rule that members must be atheist.




Even for those who do not want to join the party, just observing their faith can be difficult, as the government uses religion to target Uighurs, said Nicolas Becquelin at Human Rights Watch in Hong Kong.



"It is Uighur Islam that is targeted.
Through ... control of religion the authorities are trying to quell ethno-nationalist sentiment. Islam is not the real target in this, it is seen as the vehicle for expressing dissent," Becquelin said.



Teaching religion is complicated because children under 18 are banned from attending mosques or receiving religious education, and imams must renew their licence every year and are expected to show patriotism as well as devotion, Becquelin said.



"The mosques look free on the outside," said one nervous shopper. "But on the inside, the pressure is just growing.
"

english.aljazeera.net/archive/2005/11/20084913610174853.html

[nocturnal]

There isn't a whole lot they can do in the present cirucumstances. Im not trying to sound defeatist, but the Uighur rebels i think need to adopt a more pragmatic approach. China is a nation that has since the revolution constructed a huge robust nationalist based sate edifice. It embodies the very ideology, belief systems and consequent policies of the communist party and it's perception of religion at large, not just Islam. So if even the Chinese Catholic Church with it's millions of members is riven and upholds two different disparate approaches to the government, only the one that conforms to state regulations is officially sanctioned by the government.

As such, the Muslims must try to retain a certain degree of autonomy, especially in religious and cultural affairs, but careful not to fall foul of the authoritarian officials who will not hesitate to resort to brute force and savagery to quell unrest.

[doorster]

There isn't a whole lot they can do in the present cirucumstances. Im not trying to sound defeatist, but the Uighur rebels i think need to adopt a more pragmatic approach. China is a nation that has since the revolution constructed a huge robust nationalist based sate edifice. It embodies the very ideology, belief systems and consequent policies of the communist party and it's perception of religion at large, not just Islam. So if even the Chinese Catholic Church with it's millions of members is riven and upholds two different disparate approaches to the government, only the one that conforms to state regulations is officially sanctioned by the government.

As such, the Muslims must try to retain a certain degree of autonomy, especially in religious and cultural affairs, but be careful not to fall foul of the authoritarian officials who will not hesitate to resort to brute force and savagery to quell unrest.

:sl:
Thank you!
:thumbs_up
:w:

[islamirama]

The 'Hanification' of Xinjiang Published

Asia Times - Greater China - Aug 19, 2008
By Peter Navarro

While Tibet has played the role of China's "rock star" to human-rights activists around the world, China's Xinjiang province has been treated more like an unwanted stepchild. One reason is that Tibet has a true rock star in the exiled Dalai Lama. Another reason is that the strife in Xinjiang involves Muslim ethnic minorities with alleged ties to the most hated man in the Western world - Osama bin Laden. All of this, however, is simply unfair because what is happening in Xinjiang in terms of human-rights violations may be even worse than the Tibetan repression.

Xinjiang is China's largest province geographically but, with its extremes of heat and cold and desert climate, it is also one of its most sparsely populated. This province was formally annexed to the Manchu Qing Empire as early as 1759 but, for all practical purposes, it remained under the control of provincial warlords until the ascendancy of the Communist Party in 1949. That was when one of the most interesting, and possibly most ruthless historical events was ever perpetrated - one that allowed China to bring Xinjiang under its iron-fist control.

During the immediate post-World War II period, Xinjiang was controlled by Stalin and the Soviet-backed East Turkistan Republic. Reluctant to support a nationalist Muslim regime on the border of the then-Soviet Central Asian republics, Stalin brokered what appeared to be a peaceful accommodation between the Muslim leaders of East Turkistan and Mao Zedong's government. However, the plane carrying the East Turkistan leadership to Beijing to negotiate the peace agreement mysteriously - and all too conveniently - crashed and killed all aboard. In the ensuing leadership vacuum, Mao's forces stepped in and assumed control of Xinjiang, an "autonomous province" in name only.

From an agricultural point of view, much of Xinjiang is a virtual dustbowl in no small part because of overgrazing, deforestation, overplowing, and the failed efforts of the central government to turn grasslands into farmland. However, beneath Xinjiang's dusty soil and mountainous steppes lies buried 40% of China's coal reserves. Equally abundant and far more precious to the central government are oil and natural gas deposits that total the equivalent of about 30 billion tons of oil and represent one-fourth to one-third of China's total petroleum reserves.

Xinjiang is not just one of China's best bets for energy resources. Bordering eight countries in Central Asia and the Russian Federation, Xinjiang also has important strategic value. Central Asia can serve as a transshipment area for Middle East oil should war ever break out over Taiwan or China's various claims for oil reserves in the South China Seas. Central Asia republics such as Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan also have large petroleum reserves of their own that can help lessen China's Middle East oil dependence. For these reasons, China is building a vast network of modern infrastructure that includes railways, roads, and pipelines linking Xinjiang eastward to China's petroleum-thirsty industrial heartland and west and north to Central Asia and Russia.

In Xinjiang, the majority of the population consists of a Muslim Turkic people called the Uyghurs. These Uyghurs face some of the harshest and most repressive measures in the world under the jackboots of Chinese communism - arguably even more oppressive than what the Tibetans face. Any independent religious activity can be equated to a "breach of state security", activists are regularly arrested and tortured, and despite its sparse population, Xinjiang's ethnic groups suffer more executions for state security crimes than any other province.

Tragically, repression in Xinjiang has only intensified in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States. The Chinese government seized on this attack on American soil as a golden opportunity to cut a very clever deal with the US. China would support the US's "war on terror" if the United States would agree that the separatist activities of the Uyghurs represented not simply an indigenous rebellion against autocratic rule but rather a legitimate terrorist threat with ties to al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden. As part of its deal with America, China now defines a terrorist in Xinjiang as anyone who thinks "separatist thoughts", and Xinjiang's jails are crowded with such pseudo-terrorists.

Although China's iron-fisted repression in Xinjiang borders on the unbearable, what sticks most in the Uyghur craw is the ongoing "Hanification" of Xinjiang. As a matter of policy, for decades the Chinese government has sought to pacify Xinjiang by importing large portions of its Han population from other, primarily poor areas - and even by exporting young Uyghur women of child-bearing age out of the region.
Consider this chilling passage from Reuters:

China's government is forcibly moving young women of the ethnic Uyghur minority from their homes in Xinjiang to factories in eastern China, a Uyghur activist told the US Congress on Wednesday. Rebiya Kadeer, jailed for more than five years for championing the rights of the Muslim Uyghurs before being sent into exile in the United States, called for US help in stopping a program she said had already removed more than 240,000 people, mostly women, from Xinjiang. The women face harsh treatment with 12-hour work days and often see wages withheld for months ... Many suspect that the Chinese government policy is to get them to marry majority Han Chinese in China's cities while resettling Han in traditional Uyghur lands ..

Today, as a result of these policies, the Han population is rising at a rate twice as fast as that of the Uyghur population. Rather than being pacified or tamed by the growing Han population, the Uyghurs are simply becoming more and more radicalized. There is a very bitter and dangerous irony in this ethnic strife reported in the Economist:

Whereas the Uyghurs historically have been "among the world's most liberal and pro-Western Muslims, fundamentalist Islam is gaining sway among young Uyghur men. Today, Uyghurs report that small-scale clashes break out nearly every day between Chinese and Uyghurs in Xinjiang's western cities.

It is unlikely that a full-blown guerrilla movement will emerge in Xinjiang to engage Chinese forces in an Algerian- or Vietnamese-style revolt. The populace is simply too small, and Chinese security forces are too big and powerful. However, in an age of "suitcase" nuclear bombs and biological terrorist weapons, China is increasingly exposed to attacks from Uyghur separatists at soft target points such as the Three Gorges Dam or any one of its teeming cities. Indeed, as we have seen in a series of recent attacks, Uyghur separatists are showing an increasing ability to strike at Chinese targets.

The question ultimately for this conflict - and the fate of the Uyghur people - is how this conflict will be judged by world opinion. Will the Uyghurs be seen as a ruthlessly oppressed people being gradually exterminated through the policy of Hanification? Or will the taint of a Bin Laden connection prevent the same kind of world outrage that we now witness over Tibet? It is an open question - and one that the Chinese government itself could deftly sidestep if it simply began to treat its autonomous regions as truly autonomous.

Peter Navarro is a professor at the Merage School of Business at the University of California-Irvine, a CNBC contributor, and author of The Coming China Wars (FT Press). www.peternavarro.com.
Copyright 2008 Asia Times Online

http://www.uhrp.org/articles/1335/1/The-Hanification-of-Xinjiang-/index.html

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[nocturnal]

I don't think Beijing really cares much about the opinion of the international community. Look at all the issues such as human rights, dissent, political reform, provincial autonomy, etc. None of these issues, despite repeated entreaties from western powers and senior officials in major international institutions like the UN, EU, World Bank etc, they will remain intransigent.

National sovereignty is a sacrosanct tenet of the modern chinese psyche. It wouldn't have been so dangerously manifested if impetuous western demonstratos new better than to sabotage the olympic torch relay for example. This just inflamed Chinese nationalism, and essentially spawned a breed of new generation hardliners keen to assert their identity, their country, and as they see it, with both Tibet and Xinjiang being inalienable parts of it.

We need consistent, concerted, international diplomatic pressure. This is the only way to get the Chinese to yield. Bellicose statements and impassioned rhetoric will only alienate China from fully integrating into the structures and processes of the international system. (which i agree, needs to be emancipated from American hegemony too).

[barney]

It's not just the Muslims! Nobody can speak out in China, its ummm...like a communist Country??

The Christians are all bugged and tapped and imprisoned and tortured etc etc.

Atheists, Bhuddists, Agnostics Muslims, anyone. If you speak against the state there is the reckoning.

[nocturnal]

It's not just the Muslims! Nobody can speak out in China, its ummm...like a communist Country??

The Christians are all bugged and tapped and imprisoned and tortured etc etc.

Atheists, Bhuddists, Agnostics Muslims, anyone. If you speak against the state there is the reckoning.

I know pal, im not disputing that. Im just saying that the recourse people resort to often is ill-concieved and not thought out carefully. When you're dealing with a regime as repressive as the Chinese Communist Party, you have to be ready to face imminent incarceration. Either that or give up secessionist ambitions.

[barney]

Just to point out as well, China is NOT an Atheist Country. It's a country that has made the Party the Religion.
It has scripture, hymns, a deity, places of worship, symbology religious schools, clergy and matras and dogma.
It's managed to make a religion out of ideology, like the Nazis or Juche.

[doorster]

Just to point out as well, China is NOT an Atheist Country. It's a country that has made the Party the Religion.
It has scripture, hymns, a deity, places of worship, symbology religious schools, clergy and matras and dogma.
It's managed to make a religion out of ideology, like the Nazis or Juche.

Nazism was not a religion of Germany, but a form of Christianity was!

Chinese are NOT like Nazis
Nazis murdered other people while Chinese were murdered by other people.
The exact opposites
Nazis were trying to take over and create a world in their own image while chines were trying to stay alive

NOTE: I think If Chinese were specially anti Muslim, Pakistan would have died more than 30 years ago after being abandoned by every one (with exception of Turkey and (pre-Lahnatullah era) Iran if I remember correctly)

[barney]

Nazism was not a religion of Germany, but a form of Christianity was!

Chinese are NOT like Nazis
Nazis murdered other people while Chinese were murdered by other people.
The exact opposites
Nazis were trying to take over and create a world in their own image while chines were trying to stay alive

NOTE: If Chinese were specially anti Muslim, Pakistan would have died more than 30 years ago after being abandoned by every one (maybe with exception of Turkey and (pre-Lahnatullah era) Iran)

Well Hitler was catholic, had backing from the Pope and the "greater german god" mixed christianity with the paganism of Wotan.

As for the chinese being murdered by other people, you might like to google something along the lines of Mao Zedong and find out how many chinese this god-man killed. (Clue its higher than 5 million and less than Eighty)

[north_malaysian]

Yes...the Uyghurs were persecuted by China... but how about the 9,000,000 Huis?

[nocturnal]

I don't believe the Nazis were trying to alter the world in their own image. They were interested in subjugating the world, imposing their hegemony, and using coercive measures, forcing conquered peoples and territories to conform to Nazi policies. Shaping the world in their image is what the Soviet Union did through organizations such as Comintern. The Chinese also adopted the same strategy under Mao and his sucessors, in terms of international interference and the propagation of Chinese Communism.

I suppose you can aruge that the Nazis were more strident and fervent in their desire for what Hitelr called "lebensraum", and hence the expansionist policies.

[Trumble]

I don't believe the Nazis were trying to alter the world in their own image. They were interested in subjugating the world, imposing their hegemony, and using coercive measures, forcing conquered peoples and territories to conform to Nazi policies.

I don't think there's any evidence that their territorial ambition stretched much further than recovering traditionally 'German ' territorities in Europe and sweeping up further land in eastern Europe to provide 'lebensraum'. Such a nation had it been established would have been a dominant economic power anyway, at least in Europe. I don't think 'the world' was ever on the agenda; there was certainly no desire to fight France and Britain let alone the USSR and United States.. although arguably Hitler believed war with the USSR was an ideological inevitability. He rather anticipated, at least prior to 1940, that Britain France and the USA would be on his side in such a conflict.

[doorster]

only on LI one can find historians of such high calibre!

there was me, believing in my ignorance that he was going to replace us, the sub species of humans with his lab bred master race.

now all I need to learn is how Libyan deserts got moved out of Europe and dumped in North Africa, or were those there all along and Rommel went there just to borrow a can of oil for his tank?

[Trumble]

now all I need to learn is how Libyan deserts got moved out of Europe and dumped in North Africa, or were those there all along and Rommel went there just to borrow a can of oil for his tank?

The Desert War was the result of British and Italian colonialism rather than German expansionism. On the outbreak of war the British attached the Italians in Libya, then the Italians attacked the British in Egypt. When it became apparent his Italian allies were losing big-time Hitler sent Rommel and the Afrika Korps to bail them out. Subsequently neither side could afford to abandon North Africa as it was too important in the context of controlling the Mediterranean.

Enough history for today... we are straying woefully off what is a very serious and sad topic, I think.

[Amadeus85]

Still many muslims see China as friend of the muslim world.

[north_malaysian]

Still many muslims see China as friend of the muslim world.

There are thousands of Huis in Malaysia and they say good thing about China....i think the Hui community is the bridge of a friendly friendship between China and the Muslim world.

[The Khan]

The Hui community is not mistreated, nor are the other small Muslim minorities. It is only the Uyghurs who suffer due to the underground separatist movement.

[north_malaysian]

The Hui community is not mistreated, nor are the other small Muslim minorities. It is only the Uyghurs who suffer due to the underground separatist movement.

So, Islam is not the reason for the persecution...

[alcurad]

rather it is in part, for Islam is not just praying five times and fasting.

[The Khan]

The Chinese government wishes to control all religions, and will not stop at it. Islam is no exception.

So, Islam is not the reason for the persecution...

Not really. It's mainly about ethnicity. For example, when the Hui and a majority of the Miao tribes revolted against the Manchu Qing dynasty, 12 million Hui (there are 9 million today) were exterminated, as well as 5 million Miao (12 million existing today). The Miao are mainly Shamanist and Buddhist, with a few Christians. If you have noticed, prior to the advent of the Maoists, the Chinese were highly tolerant when it came to religion. Most are syncretic.

Of course, The Maoists don't want any new religions such as Falun Gong popping up. Erasing religions was impossible during the cultural movement, so they've decided to prevent new religions which might be a threat. Falun Gong is considered a threat due to their adherents allegience to Mr Lee rather than the state. The atheist government will do whatever it takes to discourage and control religion.

[north_malaysian]

The Chinese government wishes to control all religions, and will not stop at it. Islam is no exception.



Not really. It's mainly about ethnicity. For example, when the Hui and a majority of the Miao tribes revolted against the Manchu Qing dynasty, 12 million Hui (there are 9 million today) were exterminated, as well as 5 million Miao (12 million existing today). The Miao are mainly Shamanist and Buddhist, with a few Christians. If you have noticed, prior to the advent of the Maoists, the Chinese were highly tolerant when it came to religion. Most are syncretic.

Of course, The Maoists don't want any new religions such as Falun Gong popping up. Erasing religions was impossible during the cultural movement, so they've decided to prevent new religions which might be a threat. Falun Gong is considered a threat due to their adherents allegience to Mr Lee rather than the state. The atheist government will do whatever it takes to discourage and control religion.

I think, for the Communist government....as long as the religious group doesnt cause a threat to the government...it's ok....

I've heard that the Catholics are not allowed to have Pope as their leaders, because the Pope is not a Chinese, let alone the leader of China's Communist Party.... Thus there is Chinese Catholicism there replacing the actual church...

[The Khan]

Well, the disagreement is over the appointment of the archbishop. The Maoists have appointed one who's loyal to them, while the Pope has appointed one who's loyal to him.

[Trumble]

Of course, The Maoists don't want any new religions such as Falun Gong popping up. Erasing religions was impossible during the cultural movement, so they've decided to prevent new religions which might be a threat. Falun Gong is considered a threat due to their adherents allegience to Mr Lee rather than the state. The atheist government will do whatever it takes to discourage and control religion.

That's a pretty good assessment, although I suspect Mao would be turning in his grave to hear the present regime described as 'Maoist'!

I'm not sure the 'atheist' part is really that relevant, though. It's just a matter of restricting who has any sort of control, direct or indirect, over the people. As you point out, they don't have to ban religion if they can control it; indeed the latter is the more effective option. Hence the 'official' fake Panchen Lama (and no doubt Dalai Lama once the present one dies), 'official' fake archbishop, and so on. It's a farce, but the rest of the world is too worried about upsetting the Chinese to do anything about it.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
So, realistically speaking, is there anything we can do to stop this?

[The Khan]

:wasalamex

Jihad!

It's China you're dealing with. What else can you do?

[barney]

:wasalamex

Jihad!

It's China you're dealing with. What else can you do?

And yet you are facing a regime that
1) Has Nukes. Lots of Nukes
2) Will happily massacre millions of their OWN people. At the drop of a hat.
Think of this as hyperbole if you wish. Its historical fact. The graves are there, the people who lived through this are alive. Talk to them if you doubt it.
China, put simply will turn any and all islamic countries who it even thinks of as a threat to it into a large pool of melted irradiated glass at the first oppotunity.
The leadership is neither sane, logical or restrained. Push them with a "Jihad" and threaten their soverigty and they will respond with stupid amounts of overkill. China is not America who will wring hands at every mistaken death and crawl about abasing itself at its faults.
Its a utterly different kettle of fish. Millions upon millions of martyers await a misunderstanding of China.

[The Khan]

I wasn't being serious.

I'm sure half or one century from now China will undergo a major revolution. Maybe even longer. But it will occur, it's inevitable.

We got hammered by China during our war with them during the early 60's, btw.

[north_malaysian]

send lots of Muslim missionaries to China.... :D

[The Khan]

Haha, lol, good idea Akhee :D

[alcurad]

won't work that much, most 'foreign' religions have been absorbed and made into culture...

[islamirama]

:sl:
So, realistically speaking, is there anything we can do to stop this?

:w:

Best thing to do would be to give it as much media coverage as possible, by putting everything under the microscope and on the tv will make the world more aware and china unpopular. It may not make them change their stance but it sure will not help their image and thus maybe make them think a bit about how they should go about it.

[Amadeus85]

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout

[Chuck]

Just to point out as well, China is NOT an Atheist Country. It's a country that has made the Party the Religion.
It has scripture, hymns, a deity, places of worship, symbology religious schools, clergy and matras and dogma.
It's managed to make a religion out of ideology, like the Nazis or Juche.

Well China is officially atheist.

[The Khan]

Webster's definition of religion:

Re*li"gion\ (r[-e]*l[i^]j"[u^]n), n. [F., from L. religio; cf. religens pious, revering the gods, Gr. 'ale`gein to heed, have a care. Cf. Neglect.]
1. The outward act or form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a god or of gods having power over their destiny, to whom obedience, service, and honor are due; the feeling or expression of human love, fear, or awe of some superhuman and overruling power, whether by profession of belief, by observance of rites and ceremonies, or by the conduct of life; a system of faith and worship; a manifestation of piety; as, ethical religions; monotheistic religions; natural religion; revealed religion; the religion of the Jews; the religion of idol worshipers.
An orderly life so far as others are able to observe us is now and then produced by prudential motives or by dint of habit; but without seriousness there can be no religious principle at the bottom, no course of conduct from religious motives; in a word, there can be no religion. --Paley.
Religion [was] not, as too often now, used as equivalent for godliness; but . . . it expressed the outer form and embodiment which the inward spirit of a true or a false devotion assumed. --Trench.
Religions, by which are meant the modes of divine worship proper to different tribes, nations, or communities, and based on the belief held in common by the members of them severally. . . . There is no living religion without something like a doctrine. On the other hand, a doctrine, however elaborate, does not constitute a religion. --C. P. Tiele (Encyc. Brit.).
Religion . . . means the conscious relation between man and God, and the expression of that relation in human conduct. --J. K["o]stlin (Schaff-Herzog Encyc.)
After the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. --Acts xxvi. 5.
The image of a brute, adorned With gay religions full of pomp and gold. --Milton.
2. Specifically, conformity in faith and life to the precepts inculcated in the Bible, respecting the conduct of life and duty toward God and man; the Christian faith and practice.
Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. --Washington.
Religion will attend you . . . as a pleasant and useful companion in every proper place, and every temperate occupation of life. --Buckminster.
3. (R. C. Ch.) A monastic or religious order subject to a regulated mode of life; the religious state; as, to enter religion. --Trench.
A good man was there of religion. --Chaucer.
4. Strictness of fidelity in conforming to any practice, as if it were an enjoined rule of conduct. [R.]
Those parts of pleading which in ancient times might perhaps be material, but at this time are become only mere styles and forms, are still continued with much religion. --Sir M. Hale.
Note: Religion, as distinguished from theology, is subjective, designating the feelings and acts of men which relate to God; while theology is objective, and denotes those ideas which man entertains respecting the God whom he worships, especially his systematized views of God. As distinguished from morality, religion denotes the influences and motives to human duty which are found in the character and will of God, while morality describes the duties to man, to which true religion always influences. As distinguished from piety, religion is a high sense of moral obligation and spirit of reverence or worship which affect the heart of man with respect to the Deity, while piety, which first expressed the feelings of a child toward a parent, is used for that filial sentiment of veneration and love which we owe to the Father of all. As distinguished from sanctity, religion is the means by which sanctity is achieved, sanctity denoting primarily that purity of heart and life which results from habitual communion with God, and a sense of his continual presence.
Natural religion, a religion based upon the evidences of a God and his qualities, which is supplied by natural phenomena. See Natural theology, under Natural.
Religion of humanity, a name sometimes given to a religion founded upon positivism as a philosophical basis.
Revealed religion, that which is based upon direct communication of God's will to mankind; especially, the Christian religion, based on the revelations recorded in the Old and New Testaments.

[north_malaysian]

Well China is officially atheist.

is it..? I thought only one nation ever declared itself as an official atheist nation on earth - Albania. And now Albania is no longer officially Atheistic.

I've seen documentary about Chinese New Year on the Discovery Channel last nite... people in Beijing went to the oldest Taoist temple in tens of thousands... Mao Tse Tung's cultural revolution could never defeat the religions...

[Gator]

Just FYI since it pertained to the topic. Link to full article is below.

Wary of Islam, China Tightens a Vise of Rules

A People’s Liberation Army political poster in a town in Xinjiang, China, a region largely inhabited by Uighurs, an ethnic group uneasy with the government’s rule.


By EDWARD WONG
Published: October 18, 2008

KHOTAN, China — The grand mosque that draws thousands of Muslims each week in this oasis town has all the usual trappings of piety: dusty wool carpets on which to kneel in prayer, a row of turbans and skullcaps for men without headwear, a wall niche facing the holy city of Mecca in the Arabian desert.

Khotan’s mosque draws thousands of Muslims each week. In Kashgar, Uighurs prepared to break their daily fast during Ramadan last month.
But large signs posted by the front door list edicts that are more Communist Party decrees than Koranic doctrines.

The imam’s sermon at Friday Prayer must run no longer than a half-hour, the rules say. Prayer in public areas outside the mosque is forbidden. Residents of Khotan are not allowed to worship at mosques outside of town.

One rule on the wall says that government workers and nonreligious people may not be “forced” to attend services at the mosque — a generous wording of a law that prohibits government workers and Communist Party members from going at all.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/wo...se&oref=slogin

[islamirama]

China Restricts Islam

With prayers banned in public areas, private hajj trips not allowed, teaching of the Noble Qur'an not allowed in private and students and government officials forced to eat during Ramadan, China is enforcing laws and regulations restricting the practice of Islam.

"Of course this makes people angry," Mohammad, a teacher, told The New York Times on Sunday, October 19.

"Excitable people think the government is wrong in what it does. They say that government officials who are Muslims should also be allowed to pray."

In recent week, Chinese authorities have enforced laws restricting the ability of Muslims in the northwestern region of Xinjiang from practicing their faith.

In Khotan, signs posted in front of the grand mosque say the weekly Friday prayer sermon must not extend beyond than a half-hour.

Prayers in public areas outside the mosque is forbidden and residents are banned from worshipping at mosques outside their town.

Under the rules, imams are banned from teaching the Qur'an in private and only official versions of the Qur'an are allowed.

Studying Arabic is only allowed at special government schools.

Government workers are banned from showing the slightest sign of religious devotion.

For example, a Muslim civil servant could be sacked for donning hijab.

Many of the rules have been on the books for years, but local authorities have publicly highlighted them in recent weeks with banners hanged in towns.

They began posting regulations mandating women not to wear hijab and men to shave their beards.

Uighur Muslims are a Turkish-speaking minority of more than eight million in Xinjiang, a northwest vast area that borders Central Asia.

Atheist China recognizes five religions — Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Taoism and Buddhism — and tightly regulates their administration and practice.

Official Hajj


Under the rules, two of Islam's five pillars – the Ramadan fasting and hajj – are strictly controlled.

Students and government workers are compelled to eat during the holy fasting month of Ramadan.

China has also revived a law prohibiting Muslims from arranging their own trips to Saudi Arabia to perform hajj.

Signs painted on mud-brick walls in the winding alleyways of old Kashgar warn against making "illegal" hajj.

"Implement the policy of organized and planned pilgrimage; individual pilgrimage is forbidden," reads a red banner hanging on a large mosque in Urumqi, the regional capital of Xinjiang.

Authorities have also confiscated passports of Uighur Muslims across Xinjiang to force them to join government-run hajj tours rather than their own trips.

Once a person files an application, the authorities do a background check into the family.

If the applicant has children, the children must be old enough to be financially self-sufficient, and the applicant is required to show that he/she has substantial savings in the bank.

To get a passport to go on an official hajj or a business trip, applicants must leave a deposit of nearly $6,000.

Now virtually no Uighurs have passports, though they can apply for them for short trips.

This has made life especially difficult for businessmen who travel to neighboring countries.

Critics say the government is trying to restrict contacts with world Muslims, fearing that could highlight the sufferings of Muslims in Xinjiang and possibly build pressures on China.

Source from http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout

[Fishman]

I wasn't being serious.

I'm sure half or one century from now China will undergo a major revolution. Maybe even longer. But it will occur, it's inevitable.

We got hammered by China during our war with them during the early 60's, btw.

:sl:you're the Khan, you should summon the hordes! Even China can't withstand half a million horse archers pouring over the great wall, as was shown last time...

[Chuck]

is it..? I thought only one nation ever declared itself as an official atheist nation on earth - Albania. And now Albania is no longer officially Atheistic.

I've seen documentary about Chinese New Year on the Discovery Channel last nite... people in Beijing went to the oldest Taoist temple in tens of thousands... Mao Tse Tung's cultural revolution could never defeat the religions...

Albania's declaration was dramatic, but China is officially atheist.

While the People's Republic of China is officially atheist it does allow religion under strict supervision.

http://ch.tudelft.nl/china2006/?page...e_and_religion

[islamirama]

Uighurs fear Islamic practices will disappear under China's rule



Uighur Muslims, who could not study freely Islamic teachings under the China's long-year restrictions, fear Islamic practices will be forgotten and disappear.

"I wanted to study teachings like the Hadith," the man, 25-year-old Muslim, who identified himself only as Hussein, told San Francisco Chronicle, referring to a collection of the Prophet Muhammad's, sayings. "I'm too old now. It makes me sad."

As children, Hussein and millions of other young Uighurs never attended the religious schools known as madrassas or prayed at mosques because of a government ban on Islamic education for those under 18. Since Hussein never learned about religious laws governing marriage and family, he feels unprepared to have children, and he wonders whether future generations will be able to practice their faith before adulthood.

"Maybe in 10 years, there will be no more religion in East Turkistan, said Hussein.

Since the end of the Olympic Games in late August, the Chinese government's pressure on Uighurs has escalated, according to Alim Seytoff, general secretary of the Uighur American Association, based in Washington, D.C.

Uighurs have long complained of restrictions on Islam, which include studying Arabic only at government schools, banning government workers from practicing Islam and barring imams from teaching religion in private.

The rights groups say in some towns, prayer in public places outside the main mosque is forbidden and an imam's sermon is limited to no longer than a half-hour.

At most major towns in East Turkistan, soldiers search cars and scan identity cards at checkpoints ringing the perimeters.

East Turkistan's Communist Party officials have also curtailed Islamic dress and diet. During Ramadan that ended in September, local authorities required some Uighur-owned restaurants to remain open during the day, when Muslims normally fast. Government employees have been told to shave their beards, and police have been ordering women to remove their veils.

"It's virtually martial law there," said Seytoff of the Uighur American Association. "East Turkestan is a police state. As long you're a Uighur, you're a criminal suspect in China."

Dilshat Ri****, spokesman for the Germany-based World Uighur Congress, estimates that close to 700 people have been detained since August.

"People can be arrested anytime or anywhere without warrants or charges. People are panicking," said Ri****. "These strategies will worsen the conflict between Uighurs and the Beijing government."

Some Uighurs say that even though they worry about security, the growing influence of the Han Chinese over the economy poses a larger threat to their livelihood. A hotel employee in Kashgar named Omar said that most Uighurs experience job discrimination on a regular basis.

"Even if a Uighur knows English, Russian and French, and does a good job, a Chinese will still get the position," he said.

The struggle of Uighurs

The Uighurs are a Sunni Muslim ethnic group related to the Turkic peoples of Central Asia.

Nicholas Bequelin, who monitors the province for Human Rights Watch, says that continued Han migration, rapid economic development and authoritarian rule are a long-term strategy to crush Uighur dissent. Han Chinese now comprise more than half of East Turkistan's population of 20 million people.

"This isn't reactive repression. It's a deliberate policy to control, monitor and sterilize Uighur culture so it can't be a vehicle for autonomy," said Bequelin.

Historical records show that the Uyghurs have a history of more than 4000 years. Throughout the history the Uyghurs developed a unique culture and civilization and made remarkable contribution to the civilization of the world.

The Uyghurs embraced Islam in 934, during the reign of Satuk Bughra Khan, the Kharahanid ruler. Since that time on the Islam continuously served Uyghurs as the only religion until today.

After embracing Islam the Uyghurs continued to preserve their cultural dominance in Central Asia. World renowned Uyghur scholars emerged, and Uyghur literature flourished. Among the hundreds of important works surviving from this era are the Kutat-ku Bilik by Yusuf Has Hajip (1069-70), Divan-i Lugat-it Turk by Mahmud Kashgari, and Atabetul Hakayik by Ahmet Yukneki.

East Turkistan was occupied by the communist China in 1949 and its name was changed in 1955. The communist China has been exercising a colonial rule over the East Turkistan since then.

PHOTO CAPTION

This photo shows Muslim Uighurs in the old quarter of Kashgar of narrow alleys and adobe-style homes, in the far flung outpost of the ancient Silk Road in China's far western Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region.

Source: worldbulletin.net

[north_malaysian]

videos about Hui Chinese:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cucJmsaOCwI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnH6kuliNnA
(they also have saint-worshipping culture ...imsad)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvGwR...eature=related

[Fishman]

:sl:
Uighurs actually used to have an empire of their own. It consisted of modern East Turkestan as well as parts of Mongolia.

The Uighur Empire was a central Asian steppe confederation, like most empires that have existed there. However, unlike many of its predecessors, the Uighurs actually started to settle down and build their own cities and culture.

However, steppe confederations were not usually very long-lived, and the Uighur empire was no exception. In the late dark ages, the Kyrgyz tribes (who then lived in central Siberia) sent an army of 80,000 horsemen to attack the Uighurs. They proceeded to burn down the capital and other major cities, leaving Mongolia in chaos again.


The world in the time of the Uighur Empire (Khaganate):

:w:
:w:

[islamirama]

[uniteislam]

I have a visited China and I had no problems. I believe Muslims are treated very well and fairly in China. What you are hearing about is one-group of Muslims in the North West (Xinjiang) who want to separate from China. In the one Province of Xinjiang there are 13 different ethnic groups, most are Muslims (not Uighur's) and they are not complaining about the treatment of Islam in China, just the one ethnic group of Uighur's (who make up the majority of Xinjiang province).

There are many lies about Tibet too, the Dalai Lama is working for and funded by the CIA. I also believe the Uighur leader Rebiya Kadeer from Xinjiang is funded by the CIA, as she was linked to a known terrorist group and the US knew this but allowed her to move to the USA.