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AntiKarateKid
10-07-2008, 02:35 PM
“ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood.[49] „

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science

Apparently it is quoted by a medieval Islamic scholar names Ibn Qayyim who wrote a book comparing Islamic embryology to Galens. This seems to be exactly what Galen says. But I have almost never heard anyone ever cite this hadith, not the people against Islamic embryology,certainly not the people for it either

The problem is, I have seen refutations of this Galen theory. Such as this:
http://www.quranicstudies.com/articl...mbryology.html

The only thing that confuses me is that some of these hadiths are way out there or might even be metaphorical and yet I don't know how to interpret them.

What do you think?
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10-07-2008, 02:40 PM
I think you think too much. Take a chill pill :-\
Reply

AntiKarateKid
10-07-2008, 02:49 PM
haha I probably do but through it I have found amazing things in the Quran and wish to get things such as this out of the way
Reply

Woodrow
10-07-2008, 02:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
“ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood.[49] „

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science

Apparently it is quoted by a medieval Islamic scholar names Ibn Qayyim who wrote a book comparing Islamic embryology to Galens. This seems to be exactly what Galen says. But I have almost never heard anyone ever cite this hadith, not the people against Islamic embryology,certainly not the people for it either

The problem is, I have seen refutations of this Galen theory. Such as this:
http://www.quranicstudies.com/articl...mbryology.html

The only thing that confuses me is that some of these hadiths are way out there or might even be metaphorical and yet I don't know how to interpret them.

What do you think?
The Ahadeeth can be very difficult to understand. This is an area when in doubt seek the advice of a scholar. Alrhough some hadeeth are easily seen to be metaphors, it is probably best not to attempt to interpret any unless you are fluent in Arabic, have access to the actual hadeeth and are well versed in the science of hadeeth.
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10-07-2008, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
haha I probably do but through it I have found amazing things in the Quran and wish to get things such as this out of the way
No I was serious. Too much questioning isn't good for your Imaan.
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truemuslim
10-07-2008, 02:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -

No I was serious. Too much questioning isn't good for your Imaan.
lol sis yeh it is
it how i quit my doubt...well actually i just made more questions from the answers u ppl gaave me, but after all that i finally were able to stop doubt :statisfie :p
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AntiKarateKid
10-07-2008, 02:58 PM
So you guys figure I should just drop it? I assumed that if indeed this was authentic, it would have been quoted ALOT by anti-Islamic people, but apparently it inly is mentioned by a guy named Musallam who wrote a book on trying to compare Quran embryology with galens

Woodrow: You may be right. It seems like when translating into english, even a single word change or synonym changes the complete context of the hadith. I have seen like 3 different scientific explainations and oppositions for some hadiths. Yet the ones in the Quran are clear as day.

Serene: You may be right too, i'm stubborn so I stick to something that I dont understand it often makes me feel in over my head. ANy tips? Stick with the most obvious miracles? LOL, i think I can manage that.
Reply

Hamayun
10-07-2008, 03:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -

No I was serious. Too much questioning isn't good for your Imaan.
My apologies if I am mistaken but doesn't the Quran encourage us to gain as much knowledge as we can?

Once again sorry if I am being silly but I don't think its right to leave questions un-answered :)
Reply

------
10-07-2008, 03:21 PM
:salamext:

^ The shaytaan is the one who makes you question too much. We should stick within our limits, and only question what is necessary.


When the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam told the sahaba that between the blowing of the trumpet there will be forty, they didn't ask 'forty years? forty months? forty days?' No. Dyou know why? Because they knew that knowledge would not benefit them in any way. [I heard this in a lecture, and no, I don't have the source with me right now]


Only gain knowledge of what will benefit you.
Reply

Sami234
11-12-2008, 06:30 PM
As salamou 'aleykom

I read it in the tafsir of Al-Qourtoubi.

I must say that I did not see if it was Sahih, also, it was not reported in the main compilation of hadith.

Also, the imam Ibn Khaldoun said that it is not compulsory to follow the prophet on medical things like that because he may do some errors too.
Reply

Mahir
11-24-2008, 12:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
“ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood.[49] „

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science

Apparently it is quoted by a medieval Islamic scholar names Ibn Qayyim who wrote a book comparing Islamic embryology to Galens. This seems to be exactly what Galen says. But I have almost never heard anyone ever cite this hadith, not the people against Islamic embryology,certainly not the people for it either

The problem is, I have seen refutations of this Galen theory. Such as this:
http://www.quranicstudies.com/articl...mbryology.html

The only thing that confuses me is that some of these hadiths are way out there or might even be metaphorical and yet I don't know how to interpret them.

What do you think?

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh

Dear brother, it is very good that you ask questions to erase your doubts )Or confusions) some may say "Don't ask to much" but when you give them a hadith when Muhammad(saw) said that a day will be like 40 years, the Sahaba asked "should we pray 5 times that day?", these are things a human want to get clarified, there is nothing prohibited to ask except dumb things, and what you have asked isn't dumb!

As for your question, I have a Hadith searcher, I only have to type in some words and I will get the hadith in question, I did that, and didn't find the hadith!

Believe me, 18 000 hadiths and this hadith you quoted is NOT there!

It is probably a Weak hadith, thats probably why Muslim and Bukhari didnt include it....May Allah be pleased with them!

The Anti Muslims will give you weak hadiths to "Debunk" Islam, they are too desperate, you can not prove Islam wrong through a weak hadith, if indeed a weak hadith goes against Science, I am 100% sure allmost ALL Muslims would reject the hadith!

The point to note here, they have, and ALLWAYS will show us weak hadiths and bad interpretations of the Qur'an, I have gone through these alot, I have spent nights and days looking for answers and ALHAMDULILLAh I have found my answers, when Allah wants you to understand, YOU WILL understand!

Allah said "I will not change the condition of a man until he changes his heart" something like that (Not completly sure about the wording)

As for the other hadith they quoted in the same article (In Wiki) here is the response:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/a_..._by_islamtoday

Brother, don't worry, Qur'an is the biggest miracle on our earth today, but the Kafiroon will allways deny it and say "Aah come on you see what you want to see" as if 1,6 billion people are blind!

Dont let them shake your faith in Allah, please contact me if you have any questions, I will debunk them all, May Allah bless you dear brother! ameen

Feel free to visit:

www.55a.net
www.answering-Christianity.com
www.Muslim-Responses.com
www.youtube.com/user/easyonetwothree
:D
Reply

Follower
11-24-2008, 01:00 PM
If I were a muslim I wouldn't try to understand or accept any hadith they are no more then a story written by man about a man.
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Mahir
11-24-2008, 01:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
If I were a muslim I wouldn't try to understand or accept any hadith they are no more then a story written by man about a man.
Thats you, I accept the hadiths, but there are off course lies within the Hadiths, but these are pretty much easy to spot!

The Qur'an is free from lies, and it is not the speech of man, thats why no Arab man has been able to make a single chapter like the Qur'an!

The hadiths, well, there are pretty many attributed lies, but ive explained that the lies are easy to spot!

May Allah guide you closer to Islam :) Peace
Reply

Confused0122
11-24-2008, 10:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
“ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood.[49] „

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science

Apparently it is quoted by a medieval Islamic scholar names Ibn Qayyim who wrote a book comparing Islamic embryology to Galens. This seems to be exactly what Galen says. But I have almost never heard anyone ever cite this hadith, not the people against Islamic embryology,certainly not the people for it either

The problem is, I have seen refutations of this Galen theory. Such as this:
http://www.quranicstudies.com/articl...mbryology.html

The only thing that confuses me is that some of these hadiths are way out there or might even be metaphorical and yet I don't know how to interpret them.

What do you think?
Salam.
I would really stay away from wikipedia because any ordinary person such as yourself or I can edit articles and write whatever we wish to.. As to those types of hadiths, if you can find them in the books to make sure that it isnt fabricated, then I would ask a scholar.. You can visit some fatwas sites such as islamicity.com but they really don't respond because they're busy or you just might not have th eopportunity to ask because of time differences.. Otherwise, I wouldn't let that get in the way of my faith because there are certain hadiths which don't make sense to us. For example, it has been said that there will be a time when men will find out about the affairs of their homes from their hips.. Looking at that one would think.. What? come again? lol.. this can be interpreted as people having cellular phones as a resuilt of technology and being able to speak to family and find out about what's going on from day to day.. Anyway, I hope this helped somehow.. Wa alaikum as salam.
Reply

YusufNoor
11-25-2008, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
If I were a muslim I wouldn't try to understand or accept any hadith they are no more then a story written by man about a man.
that's a pretty good description on the "current" gospels!

dontcha think?

:thumbs_up
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Zamtsa
12-26-2008, 08:17 PM
That Hadits is not Shahih, check whether there is a Mudallis in the isnad or whether it is Munqathi' or Maqthu' or Mu'dhal, or maybe there is a weak memory narator in there or there is a contradictory between the Rawi with more trustworthy narrator on the same Hadits.

May Allahu Ta'ala add your spirit in Islam.


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh.
Reply

AntiKarateKid
01-18-2009, 07:44 AM
Brothers and sisters, one of the biggest reasons I know that this is not even sahih is because, if that were true, why arent the kuffars flaunting it in our faces?

I have read many debates about Islam and science and not once, not even a single time, has this hadith even been brought up by the kuffars.
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Al-Zaara
01-25-2009, 04:10 PM
^ To me, that seems quite a weak point. I wouldn't go and use it as one of the reasons it isn't sahih. Do the scholars use such a reason to say what is sahih and what not? No. Have you asked an scholar regarding this, or simply continued researching by yourself?
Reply

Confused0122
01-26-2009, 05:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
“ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood.[49] „

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science

Apparently it is quoted by a medieval Islamic scholar names Ibn Qayyim who wrote a book comparing Islamic embryology to Galens. This seems to be exactly what Galen says. But I have almost never heard anyone ever cite this hadith, not the people against Islamic embryology,certainly not the people for it either

The problem is, I have seen refutations of this Galen theory. Such as this:
http://www.quranicstudies.com/articl...mbryology.html

The only thing that confuses me is that some of these hadiths are way out there or might even be metaphorical and yet I don't know how to interpret them.

What do you think?
Salam bro..
I suggest you don't worry about it.. That "hadith" was quoted from a book, according to the footnotes on the link u provided. The only hadith I've found similar tothat is the following: Book 003, Number 0613:
It is reported on the authority of 'A'isha that a woman came to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and inquired: Should a woman wash herself when she sees a sexual dream and sees (the marks) of liquid? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Yes. 'A'isha said to her: May your hand be covered with dust and injured. She narrated: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Leave her alone. In what way does the child resemble her but for the fact that when the genes contributed by woman prevail upon those of man, the child resembles the maternal family, and when the genes of man prevail upon those of woman the child resembles the paternal family.

This, however, mentions nothing about the woman's "semen" lol. Just disregard it.. If I find out what the aforementioned means, I'll be sure to post it up.
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Confused0122
01-26-2009, 05:06 AM
wikipedia's not even reliable... lol
Reply

Confused0122
01-26-2009, 05:26 AM
Okay, I just found a hadith (sahih) that's similar to what the brother posted:
Book 003, Number 0608:
Anas b. Malik reported that Umm Sulaim narrated it that she asked the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) about a woman who sees in a dream what a man sees (sexual dream). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon bi m) said: In case a woman sees that, she must take a bath. Umm Sulaim said: I was bashful on account of that and said: Does it happen? Upon this the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Yes (it does happen), otherwise how can (a child) resemble her? Man's discharge (i. e. sperm) is thick and white and the discharge of woman is thin and yellow; so the resemblance comes from the one whose genes prevail or dominate.

I don't know what it means but inshallah (hopefully) I'll get an answer from a scholar and I'll post it up.
Reply

- Qatada -
01-29-2009, 07:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Confused0122
Okay, I just found a hadith (sahih) that's similar to what the brother posted:
Book 003, Number 0608:
Anas b. Malik reported that Umm Sulaim narrated it that she asked the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) about a woman who sees in a dream what a man sees (sexual dream). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon bi m) said: In case a woman sees that, she must take a bath. Umm Sulaim said: I was bashful on account of that and said: Does it happen? Upon this the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Yes (it does happen), otherwise how can (a child) resemble her? Man's discharge (i. e. sperm) is thick and white and the discharge of woman is thin and yellow; so the resemblance comes from the one whose genes prevail or dominate.

I don't know what it means but inshallah (hopefully) I'll get an answer from a scholar and I'll post it up.

:salamext:


Question: I came across a statement in the Sunnah wherein the Prophet (peace be upon him) says: “Yes indeed. A man’s fluid is thick and white and a women’s fluid is thin and yellow. Whichever of the two ejaculates first will be the one the child would resemble.” Does a woman does actually ejaculate? And isn’t resemblance based on genetic make-up and not on which partner ejaculates first?

Answered by Sheikh Sulaymân al-`Îsâ, professor at al-Imâm University in Riyadh

This is an important question requiring a detailed answer.

The first part of the question regards whether a woman releases a fluid during sexual intercourse the same as a man does. We say if the hadîth is authentic, then it is true and it should be accepted. The hadîth you have mentioned is related in Sahîh Muslim and is of undoubted authenticity.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) states in the hadîth that women has a fluid that is thin and yellow.

Allah says about his Prophet (peace be upon him): “Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire, it is no less than inspiration sent down to him” [Sûrah al-Najm: 3-4]

This issue was discussed by Dr. Muhammad `Ali al-Bârr in his book Human Creation between Medicine and the Qur’an under the heading “Does the woman release a fluid” (page 149).

He writes:
This had been a matter of disagreement. Sheikh al-Fakhr al-Râzî in his wonderful book, al-Mabâhith al-Mashriqiyyah, mentions that Aristotle denied that women have a fluid. Then Galen, the prominent Greek doctor strongly criticized Aristotle for that and proved that women have a fluid that differs in its nature from the fluid of men. It does not come out as an ejaculation but flows on the member and is a white moisture.

Al-Râzî then mentions that Umm Sulaym came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allah, Allah does not shy from the truth. Must a woman have a bath if she has has a sexual release while sleeping?”

He replied: “Yes, if she sees the fluid.” [Sahîh Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim]

The release of fluid from woman’s vagina is something natural. It takes place during sexual intercourse or while sleeping. It is obligatory for her to have a bath thereafter. During sexual intercourse the woman’s fluid mixes with the man’s.
Dr. al-Bârr continues:
The woman releases two types of fluid. The first is a sticky fluid that flows inside her vagina and has nothing to do with the creation of the fetus. The second is a liquid that is released at a single occasion from the Graafian follicle in the ovary when the follicle is full of a yellow liquid.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “The man’s fluid is white and woman’s is yellow.”
Turning our attention to the child resembling one of its parents, this is also confirmed by the prophetic hadîth. The child may sometimes resemble his father, his mother, one of his uncles, his grandparents, or he may closely resemble none of them.

Dr. Muhammad al-Bârr, in the same book (page 164) writes:
In brief, the factors governing the child’s resembling one parent, grandparent, or even coming with new attributes that do not belong to any of his relatives – like what happened at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) when al-Farâzî’s wife gave birth to a black baby while none of their relatives were black – is a very complicated matter. Genetics plays a very complicated role. Some of these genes follow the Mendelian model with respect to dominant and recessive genes and others do not.

Even those genes that submit to such laws might at times not act in accordance with those laws. The gene may or may not be fully expressed.

Modern medicine is still ignorant of many of the determining factors that bring about how much a child will resemble either of its parents. Until now, we do not know the role that may be played by the release of one fluid before the other in how the child will resemble one of his parents. Until and unless this is decisively determined in the future, we have no other choice but to simply believe what our Prophet (peace be upon him) said. He does not say anything except the truth.

In fact, this should encourage medical scholars to investigate these matters and discover new things.
I have given you the answer of Dr. Muhammad al-Bârr, because this is an important issue and I found his answer to be sufficient.

We have to believe in what Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) tell us. We are certain of the fact that Allah says: “Of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you.” [Sûrah al-Isrâ’: 85]

And Allah knows best.

http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=31
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Caller الداعي
02-01-2009, 05:56 AM
salams! guys the main thing is that we turned 2 the learnd scholars in these matters alive ones that is nt computers ..if this is a hadeeth then it wil have a source frm where it was taken...
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Caller الداعي
02-01-2009, 06:01 AM
..now only if we knw the origins of the hadith can we giv a verdict on it...who qouted the hadith ? context ? what was commentd on it? etc. there r many questions which have 2 be fuly considrd and researchd...
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Caller الداعي
02-01-2009, 07:18 PM
..this is known as the art of takhreej of hadith and is studied in many places and requires a high degree of background knowledge in hadith and usool hadith...so its not just checking weather its in bukhari or not or weather it comes up in the table of results on a search or not...
remember bro the deen is a trust and we r responsible for what we say and do so if we here some thing like this and r unsure weather it is a hadith or not then we should turn to the learned scholars and seek their help just as Allah commands from us!!!
and an important point which is that the info. we get from the net is mostly incorrect and no research has been done to check the authenticity of sites and articles except for a few!
Reply

corner
02-21-2009, 08:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
“ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood.[49] „

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science

Apparently it is quoted by a medieval Islamic scholar names Ibn Qayyim who wrote a book comparing Islamic embryology to Galens. This seems to be exactly what Galen says. But I have almost never heard anyone ever cite this hadith, not the people against Islamic embryology,certainly not the people for it either

The problem is, I have seen refutations of this Galen theory. Such as this:
http://www.quranicstudies.com/articl...mbryology.html

The only thing that confuses me is that some of these hadiths are way out there or might even be metaphorical and yet I don't know how to interpret them.

What do you think?
Haha ya Akhi dont worry, I have seen all of those debates regarding science, and the kuffar allways lose, I also refute their articles, they bring very very weak points, and the most funny thing is that their own Pagan Bible has billions of worse things in it!

anyway, to continue, here is a beautiful article about this yellow semen that the woman has inside of herself:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

DOMINANT CHARACTER AND GENDERING HADITHS

The Magnificent Qur'an refers to the fact that creation does not proceed except from a "mingling" - the combination of both the sperm and the ovum:

{We created man from a drop of mingled fluid (nutfatin amshajin) to test him; so We make him hearing, knowing}
(Sura "Time" also titled "Man" 76:2)

This combination is the new fetus. How is gender finally decided? What are the determining factors that cause the father's X chromosome rather than his Y chromosome - or vice-versa - to finally fuse with the mother's X chromosome, resulting in a girl or a boy?

"The ovaries are homologous with the testes in the male" (Gray's Anatomy). The male seminal fluid is thick and whitish while the ovary secretes and discharges a thin yellowish substance called corpus luteum or "golden- yellow body." 1,400 years ago the Prophet Muhammad MHMD - upon him and his house blessings and peace - mentioned both.

Further, he revealed that when the father's fluid - gamete, chromosomes and genes - prevails upon the mother's, the child will take after the father; but if the mother's fluid - gamete, chromosomes and genes - prevails, the child will take after the mother.

Imam Muslim narrated in his Sahih from Anas ibn Malik:

Umm Sulaym [Anas' mother] said that she once asked the Prophet about a woman that sees, upon waking up, [traces of an emission of fluid] just as a man can. The Prophet MHMD replied, "When a woman sees this, let her wash from head to toe." Umm Sulaym said that she felt shy to ask such a thing and added, "Can such a thing truly take place?" The Godsent Prophet said MHMD - upon him blessings and peace: "Yes, it can. Where else does [parental] resemblance originate [in the child]? Indeed, the fluid of the man is thick and white while the fluid of the woman is thin and yellow. Whichever of the two surpasses (`ala) or precedes (sabaqa) the other, dictates resemblance."

Another narration has the "prevailing fluid" determine sex rather than resemblance. Muslim narrates from Thawban:

While I was standing beside the Prophet MHMD, one of the rabbis of the Jews came [...] then said: "I have come to ask you about something no one on earth would know except a Prophet [...]. I have come to ask you about the child." The Prophet said: "The fluid of the man is white and that of the woman yellow. When they unite and the male fluid prevails upon the female fluid, their child is male (adhkaraa) by Divine permission. When the female fluid prevails upon the male fluid, their child is female (aanathaa) by Divine permission." The Jew said: "What you said is true; you are truly a Prophet!" He turned and went away. The Messenger of Allah said: "This man just asked me about things of which I had no knowledge whatever until Allah had that knowledge brought to me!"

The above hadith can be interpreted to mean that the mother's fluid somehow draws the X-carrying sperm into the egg cell and blocks the Y-carrying one. However, it is an observable fact that in the majority of cases a child mostly resembles the parent of the opposite sex. More than this, the hadith of `A'isha on marital selection stated that "women give birth to [boys] the likes of their brothers and [girls] the likes of their sisters." It is possible, therefore, to surmise two other explanations:

(i) The "male" and "female" fluids mentioned in the second hadith are not parent-differentiated as in the first but rather both refer to the father's sperm in the sense that the male-chromosome-bearing part of the sperm is thick and white at the microscopic level while the female-chromosome-bearing part of the same sperm is thin and yellow.

(ii) The narrator(s) of the second narration might have made a mistake in the wordings "their child is male" and "their child is female" which should read, instead, "their child takes after the male line" and "their child takes after the female line" respectively. If so, the second hadith is in substance a repetition of the first. Allah knows best.

The latter alternative is the strongest in light of al-Bukhari's variant version of Thawban's hadith from Anas ibn Malik, identifying the rabbi as `Abd Allah ibn Salam:

News of the coming of the Prophet to Madina reached `Abd Allah ibn Salam. He went to see him and ask him questions: "I want to ask you of three things which none but Prophets know. What is the first of the conditions of the last Hour? What is the first meal the people of Paradise eat? Why does a child resemble his father or mother?" The Prophet MHMD said: ... The first of the conditions of the last Hour is a fire that will gather them from East to West. The first meal the people of Paradise eat is whales' sweetbreads. As for the child, then if the man's fluid precedes that of the woman, he draws the child to him; if hers, she draws the child to her." He said: "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that you are the Messenger of Allah."

-------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this helped!
Reply

YusufNoor
04-13-2009, 01:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by submitmj
Salaam

If you want to know whether to follow Hadith or Sunnah, the Quran should answer that for you. However, if you are still torn on whether to follow them or not here is a video that will likely answer your question once and for all. It is a real eye opener.
Peace
you DO realize that accepting Rashad Khalifa as a messenger is an act of Kuffar?
Reply

corner
04-13-2009, 02:17 PM
None of those verses prove that the Qur'aan is the only thing to follow, this is just your wish!

Who said that the Ahadeeth do not contain lies? Of course they do, but we know which are lies and which Ahadeeth are not lies, namely Bukhaaree and Muslim are the most truthful. We have other sources but they also contain weak Ahadeeth and even lies! so your quotes doesnt prove anything and it doesnt teach us anything new that we dont know, and we know that Muhammed (pbuh) had enemies, again, your quote doesnt prove anything!

Please, folks, compare RASHAD KHALIFAS translation of the meaning of the Qur'an, with Yusuf 'Ali or anybody else:

6:112. Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone.

6:113. To such (deceit) let the hearts of those incline, who have no faith in the hereafter: let them delight in it, and let them earn from it what they may.

6:114. Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

Rashad Khalifa INTENTIONALLY wrote "Source of Law" to make it seem as if the Qur'an is the only law and everything else is fake!

The Qur'an is FULLY explained, read this verse and you will understand:

59:7 "...and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil)"

O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination [Nisa:59]

And remember that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and Al-Hikmah. Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things [Ahzaab:34]

AL-HIKMAH which means "Wisdom" = THE SUNNAH, this is according to Ibn 'Abbas(Ra) and Ibn KAtheer amongst others!

"And treat not the Verses of Allah as a jest, but remember Allah's Favours on you (i.e. Islam), and that which He has sent down to you of the Book and Al-Hikmah, whereby He instructs you. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything [al-Baqarah:231]

1. we recite Al-Hikmah
2. Allaah has sent it down, not that he SendS, he said SENT
3. Allaah instructs us through the Hikmah
4. The Qur'an says that Muhammed (Saw) FORBIDS and ALLOWES
5. The Qur'an orders us to Obey Muhammed(saw) I.e. his sunnah!

OF COURSE THE QUR'AN IS FULLY EXPLAINED!! THE SUNNAH IS POINTED TO IN IT!
Reply

corner
04-13-2009, 02:20 PM
And secondly, everything that came from Muhammed (Religiously) was from Allaah, including the Sunnah!
Reply

aamirsaab
04-13-2009, 03:30 PM
:sl:

''Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

[Qur'ân 7:157]

That should clear up all this talk about not following hadith/sunnah etc.
Reply

Imam
04-14-2009, 08:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
“ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood.[49] „

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science


What do you think?

The writer erred twice: he wrote
format_quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
Ibn Qayyim also quotes a different hadith from the same collection
As a matter of fact Ibn Qayyim also quotes a different hadith but not from the same collection....it is from Mosnad Ahmed not from Sahih Muslim !!!

fortunately the Arabic source is online

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/T...ook=102&id=215

Arabic:

فقال الإمام أحمد في مسنده حدثنا حسين بن الحسين حدثنا أبو كريب عن عطاء بن السائب عن القاسم بن عبد الرحمن عن أبيه عن عبد الله بن مسعود قال مر يهودي برسول الله وهو يحدث أصحابه فقالت قريش يا يهودي إن هذا يزعم أنه نبي فقال لأسألنه عن شيء لا يعلمه إلا نبي فجاء حتى جلس ثم قال يا محمد مم يخلق الإنسان فقال من كل يخلق من نطفة الرجل ومن نطفة المرأة فأما نطفة الرجل فنطفة غليظة منها العظم والعصب وأما نطفة المرأة فنطفة رقيقة منها اللحم والدم فقام اليهودي فقال هكذا يقول من قبلك


English :

Imam Ahmed wrote in his mosnad , Hussein ben alhussen ,abu kareeb narrated from Ataa ben saeb ,alkasem ben abdulrahman ,ben masood , said once A jew passed by the prophet while talking with his companions ,and quraish said .o Jew this man claim to be a prophet ,he said i will ask him about things only a prophet would know !then he asked from what is created the human ,The prophet answered “ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood,then the Jew said what you said is similar to what other prophets before you said .


How Authentic such hadith?


http://www.dorar.net/enc/hadith/+%D9...D8%B5%D8%A8/+w


الراوي: عبدالله بن مسعود المحدث: أحمد شاكر - المصدر: مسند أحمد - الصفحة أو الرقم:
6/200
خلاصة الدرجة: إسناده ضعيف

the degree of the hadith: weak

The reasons :in its chain of narrators Amer ben Modrek and also Atta ben alsayeb and both rejected by most scholars......

Note: I noted another thing after reflecting the text itself...
It is the language of the hadith itself...who is this Jewish guy and upon what basis The guy claim that (what the prophet said is similar to what other prophets before said too,with regard to human creation).?

there is no Old Testament clue for any prophet ever claims the same!!
more absured is that the guy claims that the answer of such question is only known for prophets !! if so then how he knew the answer ?!!!

This so called hadith is indeed so weak not only in its chain of narrators but its language is incredible too !!

peace.
Reply

corner
04-14-2009, 10:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Imam
The writer erred twice: he wrote


As a matter of fact Ibn Qayyim also quotes a different hadith but not from the same collection....it is from Mosnad Ahmed not from Sahih Muslim !!!

fortunately the Arabic source is online

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/T...ook=102&id=215

Arabic:

فقال الإمام أحمد في مسنده حدثنا حسين بن الحسين حدثنا أبو كريب عن عطاء بن السائب عن القاسم بن عبد الرحمن عن أبيه عن عبد الله بن مسعود قال مر يهودي برسول الله وهو يحدث أصحابه فقالت قريش يا يهودي إن هذا يزعم أنه نبي فقال لأسألنه عن شيء لا يعلمه إلا نبي فجاء حتى جلس ثم قال يا محمد مم يخلق الإنسان فقال من كل يخلق من نطفة الرجل ومن نطفة المرأة فأما نطفة الرجل فنطفة غليظة منها العظم والعصب وأما نطفة المرأة فنطفة رقيقة منها اللحم والدم فقام اليهودي فقال هكذا يقول من قبلك


English :

Imam Ahmed wrote in his mosnad , Hussein ben alhussen ,abu kareeb narrated from Ataa ben saeb ,alkasem ben abdulrahman ,ben masood , said once A jew passed by the prophet while talking with his companions ,and quraish said .o Jew this man claim to be a prophet ,he said i will ask him about things only a prophet would know !then he asked from what is created the human ,The prophet answered “ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood,then the Jew said what you said is similar to what other prophets before you said .


How Authentic such hadith?


http://www.dorar.net/enc/hadith/+%D9...D8%B5%D8%A8/+w


الراوي: عبدالله بن مسعود المحدث: أحمد شاكر - المصدر: مسند أحمد - الصفحة أو الرقم:
6/200
خلاصة الدرجة: إسناده ضعيف

the degree of the hadith: weak

The reasons :in its chain of narrators Amer ben Modrek and also Atta ben alsayeb and both rejected by most scholars......

Note: I noted another thing after reflecting the text itself...
It is the language of the hadith itself...who is this Jewish guy and upon what basis The guy claim that (what the prophet said is similar to what other prophets before said too,with regard to human creation).?

there is no Old Testament clue for any prophet ever claims the same!!
more absured is that the guy claims that the answer of such question is only known for prophets !! if so then how he knew the answer ?!!!

This so called hadith is indeed so weak not only in its chain of narrators but its language is incredible too !!

peace.
Ok but there's Saheeh Ahadith about this, so I dont get it, you're trying to say a Weak hadith is weak while we have a simillar hadith in a Saheeh collection :muddlehea
Reply

corner
04-14-2009, 10:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Imam
The writer erred twice: he wrote


As a matter of fact Ibn Qayyim also quotes a different hadith but not from the same collection....it is from Mosnad Ahmed not from Sahih Muslim !!!

fortunately the Arabic source is online

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/T...ook=102&id=215

Arabic:

فقال الإمام أحمد في مسنده حدثنا حسين بن الحسين حدثنا أبو كريب عن عطاء بن السائب عن القاسم بن عبد الرحمن عن أبيه عن عبد الله بن مسعود قال مر يهودي برسول الله وهو يحدث أصحابه فقالت قريش يا يهودي إن هذا يزعم أنه نبي فقال لأسألنه عن شيء لا يعلمه إلا نبي فجاء حتى جلس ثم قال يا محمد مم يخلق الإنسان فقال من كل يخلق من نطفة الرجل ومن نطفة المرأة فأما نطفة الرجل فنطفة غليظة منها العظم والعصب وأما نطفة المرأة فنطفة رقيقة منها اللحم والدم فقام اليهودي فقال هكذا يقول من قبلك


English :

Imam Ahmed wrote in his mosnad , Hussein ben alhussen ,abu kareeb narrated from Ataa ben saeb ,alkasem ben abdulrahman ,ben masood , said once A jew passed by the prophet while talking with his companions ,and quraish said .o Jew this man claim to be a prophet ,he said i will ask him about things only a prophet would know !then he asked from what is created the human ,The prophet answered “ He is created of both, the semen of the man and the semen of the woman. The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood,then the Jew said what you said is similar to what other prophets before you said .


How Authentic such hadith?


http://www.dorar.net/enc/hadith/+%D9...D8%B5%D8%A8/+w


الراوي: عبدالله بن مسعود المحدث: أحمد شاكر - المصدر: مسند أحمد - الصفحة أو الرقم:
6/200
خلاصة الدرجة: إسناده ضعيف

the degree of the hadith: weak

The reasons :in its chain of narrators Amer ben Modrek and also Atta ben alsayeb and both rejected by most scholars......

Note: I noted another thing after reflecting the text itself...
It is the language of the hadith itself...who is this Jewish guy and upon what basis The guy claim that (what the prophet said is similar to what other prophets before said too,with regard to human creation).?

there is no Old Testament clue for any prophet ever claims the same!!
more absured is that the guy claims that the answer of such question is only known for prophets !! if so then how he knew the answer ?!!!

This so called hadith is indeed so weak not only in its chain of narrators but its language is incredible too !!

peace.
Also, about the questioner knowing the answer, I think he must have carried the answers from relatives (Only in his family), Allahu 'Alam, better ask a scholar (Or imam) about this!
Reply

Imam
04-15-2009, 08:32 AM
Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by corner
you're trying to say a Weak hadith is weak :muddlehea

Aren't you satisfied with the scholars' opinions,which I linked,regarding such Hadith?

format_quote Originally Posted by corner
while we have a simillar hadith in a Saheeh collection
first:
where is such similar hadith that mention that The man's semen is thick and forms the bones and the tendons. The woman's semen is fine and forms the flesh and blood ?!

Second : My post is specific,is to show the degree of the hadith which brother Anti-karatekid posted......


format_quote Originally Posted by corner
I think he must have carried the answers from relatives (Only in his family), Allahu 'Alam
If he get the answers from relatives,other Jews ,then his claim (only prophets know the answer )makes no sense.....

anyway I provided the reasons why such Hadith is to be rejected ,as its Isnad is classified as weak by classic Hadith scholars.....


peace
Reply

alcurad
04-15-2009, 02:37 PM
^not to mention, if it defies what we know to be true, then regardless of Ssnad it is rejected.
remember Isnad is simply the chain of narrators, not to mention some people are considered to have narrated both saheeh and weak ahadith.
Reply

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