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ShalomAll
10-11-2008, 11:31 AM
Hey guys, I have come on to these forums to find out about Islam, So if you can please answer these few questions:

1. Heaven and Hell, Does one need Allah in there lifes to go to heaven because I think in the Koran it sais that Allah sent the Christian Scriptures and also why saves someone from Hell is it Faith or Works?

2. Denominations, Shiite, Sunni, I dont know how to phrase this question but ill try: Witch Muslim denomination is based on the teaching of the Koran?

3. To convert does one need to attend any ceremony or anything to approve the conversion?

4. Isreal, Who's land is it?

5. Jesus, What are you positions on Him?

6. Movies and Video games is one entitled to play watch Violent Movies/video Games?

Thanks for you time I hope to learn about Islam so if you could give me the basic teaching I would appreciate it.

Thanks.
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Grace Seeker
10-11-2008, 08:13 PM
Shalom, Shalom. Glad to have you here. Welcome, you are not the only Christian here, there are a few of us that have been around for long enough to know that these are questions that come up repeatedly. Some assume a few things about Islam that the Muslim brothers and sisters will probably want to correct you on before even answering the questions. And because different people have different styles in answering questions, I expect you will get a variety of different responses. I encourage you to try to listen, debate happens easily and doesn't always help us get the answers we were searching for.

I'm going to let those who are Muslim speak for themselves, but I think I can get you a head start on your second question. You can't compare the differences in Sunni and Shiite to the differences between Lutherans and Presbyterians. Thus the concept of denominations isn't really present in Islam the same way that it is within Protestant Christianity. It is anchored more in the history of political authority within the Ummah than in theology. Both would say that they are based on the teachings of the Qur'an and both would recognize that to be true of the other. I think that this board is largely Sunni (though perhaps someone can correct me on that if I am wrong), but either way people try to resist being drawn into disagreements between sects. It's written right into the board's offical use guidelines.



You may also find some of your questions already asked and answered in this thread: Things in Islam I'm curious about
Reply

MustafaMc
10-11-2008, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by ShalomAll
1. Heaven and Hell, Does one need Allah in there lifes to go to heaven because I think in the Koran it sais that Allah sent the Christian Scriptures and also why saves someone from Hell is it Faith or Works?
We have no concept of having Allah inhabiting our lives, but rather that we submit our lives to Him as demonstrated by following the example of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him, or saaws). Judgment Day and the determination of one's place in the Hereafter rests solely with Allah. The Qur'an promises Gardens of Paradise for those who believe in the Oneness of God and do good deeds such as prayer, fasting, charity, kindness to parents, etc. Prophet Muhammad (saaws) was sent as a Messenger to all mankind to teach them proper belief and to demonstrate how to worship God (Allah) and how best to live our lives. We Muslims strive to pattern our lives after the example of Muhammad (saaws).
2. Denominations, Shiite, Sunni, I dont know how to phrase this question but ill try: Witch Muslim denomination is based on the teaching of the Koran?
The Sunni and Shia are the 2 main categories of Muslims, but as GraceSeeker indicated the differences are more political than religious. To promote unity among Muslims, discussions about these differences on this forum are strongly discouraged.
3. To convert does one need to attend any ceremony or anything to approve the conversion?
First one must be taught the basics of the Islamic faith and if he/she believes that these articles of faith are true and he/she agrees to follow the example of Prophet Muhammad (saaws), then to become a Muslim one must state, "Ashadu an la ilaha illallah, wa ashadu anna Muhammadan rasul'Allah" which means "I bear witness that there is no god but One God and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God". Thereafter the person strives to adhere to the Sunnah or traditions of Muhammad, for example in praying 5 times a day in a prescribed manner.
4. Isreal, Who's land is it?
It is Allah's land.
5. Jesus, What are you positions on Him?
That he was a highly respected Servant, Prophet, and Messenger of Allah. That he was the son of the virgin Mary without a human father. That Allah said, "Be" and he was miraculously created in the womb of Mary along the same lines that Allah created Adam from clay. That it is disbelief in the Oneness of Allah to say that Jesus (as) was the "Son of God". That he did not die upon the cross, but rather was raised to Heaven without dying. That he will return to rule the earth near the end of time.
6. Movies and Video games is one entitled to play watch Violent Movies/video Games?
I have no opinion on this.
Reply

_ALI_
10-12-2008, 01:32 PM
Salam
1. Heaven and Hell, Does one need Allah in there lifes to go to heaven
By having Allah in their life, you mean obeying the commandments of Allah then yes, we need to obey Allah to go to heaven. But by having Allah, you mean having the mercy of Allah then the answer is also yes. We require the mercy of Allah to go to heaven.
Sahih Muslim Book 39, Number 6760:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: None amongst you would attain salvation purely because of his deeds. A person said: Allah's Messenger, even you also. Thereupon he said: Yes. Not even I, but that Allah wraps me in Mercy, but you should act with moderation.
because I think in the Koran it sais that Allah sent the Christian Scriptures
Quran says that Torah was revealed to Moses and Injeel (translated gospel) was revealed to Jesus. But according to Islam, the present Bible is not the word of God since Muslims, along with many Christian historians, believe that Bible is unauthentic.
and also why saves someone from Hell is it Faith or Works?
When it comes to salvation, Quran says
103.001 وَالْعَصْرِ
103.001 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
103.002 إِنَّ الإنْسَانَ لَفِي خُسْرٍ
103.002 Verily Man is in loss,
103.003 إِلا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالصَّبْرِ
103.003 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
Al-Qur'an, 103.001-003 (Al-Asr [The Declining Day, Eventide, The Epoch])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
So salvation requires 4 conditions. 1)Having faith, 2)doing righteous deeds 3)Calling others towards the right path 4)preaching patience
In addition, as explained in the Hadith quoted above, we also require mercy of Allah.
2. Denominations, Shiite, Sunni, I dont know how to phrase this question but ill try: Witch Muslim denomination is based on the teaching of the Koran?
The basics of Islam are the same. When it comes to the fundamentals, Sunni and Shiite have no difference. I also agree that the differences are more political than religious. Though I personally agree with the Sunni point of view, I still don't like to be labelled as a Sunni. The label of Muslim is just fine. I'm sure many Shiite have the same opinion. Also, division in Islam is strictly prohibited.

006.159 إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا لَسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُمْ بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْعَلُونَ
006.159 As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
Al-Qur'an, 006.159 (Al-Anaam [Cattle, Livestock])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
3. To convert does one need to attend any ceremony or anything to approve the conversion?
To convert you only require to recite the "Shahadah" as given by MustafaMC
4. Isreal, Who's land is it?
That is more of a political question, not religious. The Quran never told Muslims that Israel must be under your rule. However, Quran tells us to fight those who drive us out of our homes, but fighting is always the last resort. Practically, Muslims don't approve that we should drive all the Jews out of Israel. We only point out that the Jews from Europe came and occupied Muslim land forcefully. But their complete expulsion is not an idea given by Muslims since even the Prime Minister of Palestine (belonging to Hamas) said that "Hamas would modify its rejection of Israel if there is a negotiated agreement that Palestinians can approve (as specified in the Camp David Accords)".(Palestine Peace not Apartheid pg.213 written by Jimmy Carter)
5. Jesus, What are you positions on Him?
Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of Allah. He miraculously, without any male intervention. He could speak as a child and gave life to the dead, healed people and did many miracles with God's permission. Like all prophets, we respect him so much that in arabic, we don't call him Jesus or Issa. We say Hazrat Issa Alaih Salam, meaning revered Jesus may peace be upon him.
But we also say that he was neither killed nor was he crucified. He was raised up alive by Allah and he will come back to this Earth to rule it.
6. Movies and Video games is one entitled to play watch Violent Movies/video Games?
I personally don't play video games but I don't have enough knowledge in Islam to say that they are wrong.
Peace
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ShalomAll
10-12-2008, 07:05 PM
Thanks alot ALI, MustaMafc and GraceSeeker. I apreciate you help in increasing my knowledge thanks so much.
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ShalomAll
10-12-2008, 07:18 PM
One more thing as a Christian I could feel the loveof God in my heart, I felt like I knew him, is this the same for Muslims? Do you feel like you know Allah does he give you inner peace? Thanks
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yasin ibn Ahmad
10-12-2008, 07:32 PM
Shalom to Shalom all

Well yes I personally feel like I am very close to God.That is so I try my best to obey His rules.I took every chances to search for His message to humankind.Finally I found Kuran as His last message.Now I feel very peacefull inside
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MustafaMc
10-12-2008, 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by ShalomAll
One more thing as a Christian I could feel the loveof God in my heart, I felt like I knew him, is this the same for Muslims? Do you feel like you know Allah does he give you inner peace? Thanks
For myself, I don't feel Allah in my heart and neither do I feel like I know Him beyond what He has revealed to us in the Qur'an. Allah's Majesty and Glory are simply beyond my extremely limited capacity to comprehend.

This is a distinct difference from when I was a Christian as the birth, life and death of Jesus (as) was very tangible. Since I believed then that Jesus (as) was God (may Allah forgive me), I could feel the love of that Divine Being who would sacrifice Himself for me even though I was yet a sinner. As a Christian, I had a menal image of God hanging on the cross and suffering for my own personal redemption from sin.

My experience is quite different as a Muslim. Although I pray to Allah 5 times a day, I now have absolutely no mental image or picture in my mind of what Allah looks like. Occasionally, I perform my salah as if I am standing in Allah's presence and I do indeed have a very emotional experience, but much more often than not the best that I achieve is an awareness that Allah sees me although I don't see Him.
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ShalomAll
10-12-2008, 08:48 PM
Ok thanks guys
Reply

coddles76
10-13-2008, 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by ShalomAll
One more thing as a Christian I could feel the loveof God in my heart, I felt like I knew him, is this the same for Muslims? Do you feel like you know Allah does he give you inner peace? Thanks
Salam,

Mustafa and Ali have summed things up pretty well on previous questions but I thought I'd just pass on the words of Allah SWT to the above question....

Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Aali Imran 3:31)

And of mankind are some who take (for worship) others besides Allah as rivals (to Allah). They love them as they love Allah. But those who believe, love Allah more (than anything else).(Al-Baqarah 2:165)

This is the Book (the Qur'an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]. (Al-Baqarah 2:2)
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MustafaMc
10-13-2008, 02:23 AM
One thing that Brother coddles76's post brought to my mind is that my Islamic experience for me is less emotional than was my Christian experience. The quotes from the Qur'an show that the extent we love Allah is reflected in how closely we follow what He has ordained or prescribed for us as demonstrated by Prophet Muhammad (saaws). Likewise, the extent that we fear the Punishment of Allah is reflected in our struggles to abstain from what He has forbidden. In other words, Islam governs my entire life as opposed to giving me some "warm, fuzzy feelings" of intimate connection with God.
Reply

Woodrow
10-13-2008, 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by ShalomAll
Hey guys, I have come on to these forums to find out about Islam, So if you can please answer these few questions:
1. Heaven and Hell, Does one need Allah in there lifes to go to heaven because I think in the Koran it sais that Allah sent the Christian Scriptures and also why saves someone from Hell is it Faith or Works?
I will make this brief and say it is just my opinion, astagfirullah

I believe the only way I can get to heaven is through the mercy and forgiveness of God(swt) I can not earn it I can only ask forgiveness and show my desire to repent for my sins and future sins is by doing my best to submit to the will of God(swt)

There is but one God(swt) no matter what name you call Him. The same Allaah(swt) sent his message to all people and for all times.The message was the same be it sent to Muslim, Christian, Jew or Sabian. We all recognise the prophets(PBUT) Just slightly different pronunciation of the names.

2. Denominations, Shiite, Sunni, I dont know how to phrase this question but ill try: Witch Muslim denomination is based on the teaching of the Koran?
A Shiite, Sunni, Salafi, Sufi etc are each just as much Muslim as any other Muslim. There are no denominations in Islam, but a few of us get a bit ruffled over political and national differences.

3. To convert does one need to attend any ceremony or anything to approve the conversion?
One need only say the Shadah with sincerity and knowledge of what it means. No witnesses, contracts, signature, ceremony required. It is between the individual and God(swt).

I takes a few seconds to become a Muslim, but a lifetime to be one.

4. Isreal, Who's land is it?
God's(swt) Allaah(swt) alone owns and is the supreme Maliki of this place we call earth.

5. Jesus, What are you positions on Him?
I love Him deeply for leading me to Islam. He is one of the most loved of all the Prophets(PBUH) and I Thank Allaah(swt) for letting me read the words of Jesus(as) (Eesa). If I had not been a Christian, it is possible I never would have submitted to the will of Allaah(swt).

6. Movies and Video games is one entitled to play watch Violent Movies/video Games?
Again I will only express my opinion. Seeing as how Islam requires us to be non-aggressive, I shun such things and do not permit them for my Grand Children.

Thanks for you time I hope to learn about Islam so if you could give me the basic teaching I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

As I would say if I was still living in Texas,
Nada es mas piquito
, and also welcome to the forum.
Reply

The Khan
10-13-2008, 04:14 AM
Originally Posted by ShalomAll
Hey guys, I have come on to these forums to find out about Islam, So if you can please answer these few questions:

1. Heaven and Hell, Does one need Allah in there lifes to go to heaven because I think in the Koran it sais that Allah sent the Christian Scriptures and also why saves someone from Hell is it Faith or Works?
Depends on your Eeman (faith). Allah (swt) forgives whomever he pleases.

2. Denominations, Shiite, Sunni, I dont know how to phrase this question but ill try: Witch Muslim denomination is based on the teaching of the Koran?
Differences are purely political, hardly religious. There are further differences regarding jurisprudence within these denominations. For example, the Sunni are divided into the following schools of thought or "Madhabs": Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi, and Maliki. Shi'a have the following Madhabs: Ithna Ashari, commonly known as the Twelver, Ismaili, commonly known as the Sevener, and Zaidi, commonly known as the Fiver. There are also other sects such as the Druze, Alevi, and Alawites who claim to be Shi'a, however, the mainstream Shi'a as well as Sunni regret this, some going to the extent of declaring them as non-Muslims.

The Differences between the Sunni and Shi'a lies with the caliphate. The Sunni believe in election of the caliph by the Shura (a bit like a parliament), while the Shi'a believe that the post must be inherited by a member of the Ahl ul-Bayt (family of the prophet), ie, a decendent of Hazrath Ali, the cousin of the prophet (SAW). The Shi'a are further split by the belief in inheritance - the Twelver and Sevener split over who should be the 7th Imam (the Imams are their "Wali" or guardians, the Twelver and Sevener believe that they divinely inherit this right, while the Fiver reject this), and the Fiver believe that ibn Zayd should have been the 5th Imam. The Twelver believe that the twelfth Imam, al-Mahdi, went to heaven and will return on the day of judgement, while the Nizari Sevener still have the Imamate till this day, Aga Khan IV being the current Imam.

Personally, I have taken a different view. I believe that Muhammed (SAW) recommended Ali to the post of caliph, but did not put any compulsion. I have also accepted many Shi'a views, particularly the teachings of Ja'far al-Sadiq (6th Imam for the Twelver and 5th for the Sevener). I don't consider myself as adhering to any particular madhab. I follow Islam according to what I learn on my own.

Of course, there's another denomination - the Ibadi. They initially supported Ali's caliphate, but later rejected it. They are mainly found in Oman, although small communities also exist in Libya, Algeria, Zanzibar, and the Sinai peninsula.

Thus, all these differenes are mainly politcal, and also regarding interpretation of Sharia to a slight extent. There is no single denomination which is correct or wrong. We're all Muslims.

3. To convert does one need to attend any ceremony or anything to approve the conversion?
Nope, only reciting the Shahadah once is necessary.

4. Isreal, Who's land is it?
Allah (SWT), as is everything created by him, including us.

5. Jesus, What are you positions on Him?
He was a most noble prophet and servant of Allah (SWT). He was born of a virgin without a father. He wasn't crucified, but ascended into heaven, an imposter being put in his place. He shall return to rule the world prior to the day of judgement.

6. Movies and Video games is one entitled to play watch Violent Movies/video Games?
I personally love playing violent games and watching war films. I don't know of any Islamic ruling regarding this.
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SixTen
10-13-2008, 09:05 AM
^

Good post, however I wish to clarify to points.

1) It is based on both work and faith. The christian belief is not compatible, even though it was once revealed by Allah, for if it was, Islam would not have been given.

2) Their are actually, a lot of religious differences imho, from the different sects, not just political ones. The differences are very great that, groups often get takfirs, or several group doing so to eachother.
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The Khan
10-13-2008, 10:33 AM
Thanks ^^;

Imho, these minor differences are irrelevant. The Shi'a pray thrice a day, combining Dhuhr - Asr and Maghrib - Isha, recite the Qunut during the second Rakah, prostrate on a natural surface, do not join their hands (like the Maliki sunni) etc. "Ashadun Aliyun Waliyullah" (i bear witness that Ali is the vice regent of Allah) is added in the adhan, although there's no compulsion. Karbala and Najaf are added as holy cities. The day of Ashura is a day of mourning for Hazrath Husayn. And , of course, the most controversial difference, the cursing of the sahaba.

The Ibadi reject the reciting of the Qunut entirely, criticise Ali for his code of conduct while fighting Muawiya, but do not curse him or anyone else. They don't recite any dua after al-Fatiha during the 1st and 2nd raka'h of fardh prayer for Dhuhr and Asr. etc.

Of course, within the Sunni, there are also minor differences regarding method of Salah and Sharia.

Either way you look at it, all these differences are minor, and it doesn't matter in the long run. How you decide to follow Islam is between you and Allah (SWT).

[Al-Qur’an 6:159]
As for those who divide
Their religion and break up
Into sects, thou hast
No part in them in the least:
Their affair is with Allah:
He will in the end
Tell them the truth
Of all that they did."
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SixTen
10-13-2008, 10:56 AM
Not all differences are minor brother. Not all, but some shia'ahs do believe in an incomplete Qur'an. Most, also, believe in infallible scholars. Infact, their is a whole pool of differences of beliefs, which cannot be regarded as minor. Their are sufi's, who believe in reincarnation for example.

What about the muslims who claim that Abu Bakr(ra) Umar (ra) are traitors/apostates? Sure this is political but, is it minor? Far from it. But then, it can also have religious background to it, in terms of what the Prophet (saw) related to these people. Going further, did Allah make Prophet (saw), have as his most trusted companions, traitors?

I have only given a very few examples of the extreme differences that exist, and hence, we cannot ignore that their is indeed a lot of major differences. More commonly, even among sunni's, just one of many examples, are of Allah's nature - which means it goes to the heart of aqeedah itself.

So, although their are minor differences between muslims, their are also major ones.
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-13-2008, 11:02 AM
^ you cant be muslim if you believe that about the greatest sahabi's.

because much of islaam is learnt from them, right? so if u dont take from them, you take other then islaam

right?
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SixTen
10-13-2008, 11:08 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ you cant be muslim if you believe that about the greatest sahabi's.

because much of islaam is learnt from them, right? so if u dont take from them, you take other then islaam

right?
They did not disregard everyone, they do associate with those who were with Ali (ra), for example, they do take from Ibn Abbas (ra), just as one example of many. It is that they seperated from Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar (ra) and their associates. As you know, at the time of the appointment of caliphate, their was disagreements at first, and their was a seperation as to who where with Ali (ra) and those for others. So, it is that group who was with Ali(ra) they take from, including basis of where they take hadiths etc.

For this reason (as with many), many respectable scholars did not deem the shia's kaafir.
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The Khan
10-13-2008, 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by SixTen
Not all differences are minor brother. Not all, but some shia'ahs do believe in an incomplete Qur'an.
Akhee, this is a lie created by Sunni to set hate upon the Shi'a. It has no basis. Another lie is that the Shi'a have two additional verses in their copies of the Qur'an. They have the same Hafs Qur'an which Sunni do.

Another lie my maulvi used to tell my family was that the Shi'a themselves killed Hazrath Husayn. Another lie is that they spit in food while sending it to us during Ramadhan.

The Shi'a also say such things against the Sunni. This hatred is spread by our Imams. I wish they would stop acting like priests.

Most, also, believe in infallible scholars. Infact, their is a whole pool of differences of beliefs, which cannot be regarded as minor. Their are sufi's, who believe in reincarnation for example.
Very few Sufi orders are affiliated with the Shi'a. In fact, the Shi'a were much more reluctant to accept Sufism rather than the Sunnis.

What about the muslims who claim that Abu Bakr(ra) Umar (ra) are traitors/apostates? Sure this is political but, is it minor? Far from it. But then, it can also have religious background to it, in terms of what the Prophet (saw) related to these people. Going further, did Allah make Prophet (saw), have as his most trusted companions, traitors?
Well, politics of that time. I personally have no view, apart from them being excellent caliphs.

I have only given a very few examples of the extreme differences that exist, and hence, we cannot ignore that their is indeed a lot of major differences. More commonly, even among sunni's, just one of many examples, are of Allah's nature - which means it goes to the heart of aqeedah itself.
These differences are minor in nature. The prophet (SAW) would sometimes pray with his hands joined, or sometimes not, would recite the Qunoot when in fear, would combine Dhuhr - Asr and Maghrib - Isha while travelling, etc. It does not affect Salah in the long run. Allah (SWT) looks at the Niyat of his worshipers.

So, although their are minor differences between muslims, their are also major ones.
Depends on ones view. I personally have no qualms about praying in a Sunni, Shi'a, or Ibadi Jamaat. We all believe that Allah (SWT) is one, and that Muhammed (SAW) is his messenger.

Originally Posted by SixTen
They did not disregard everyone, they do associate with those who were with Ali (ra), for example, they do take from Ibn Abbas (ra), just as one example of many. It is that they seperated from Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar (ra) and their associates. As you know, at the time of the appointment of caliphate, their was disagreements at first, and their was a seperation as to who where with Ali (ra) and those for others. So, it is that group who was with Ali(ra) they take from, including basis of where they take hadiths etc.

For this reason (as with many), many respectable scholars did not deem the shia's kaafir.
Yes, true. However, I believe that one must not use the Hadeeth for imposing laws and such. The Qur'an must be the one and only source. The Hadeeth must be used for personal reference only, so that a Muslim can decide on his own which Hadeeth is correct or not. The Hadeeth are very controversial.
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SixTen
10-13-2008, 11:25 AM
Akhee, this is a lie created by Sunni to set hate upon the Shi'a. It has no basis. Another lie is that the Shi'a have two additional verses in their copies of the Qur'an. They have the same Hafs Qur'an which Sunni do.

Another lie my maulvi used to tell my family was that the Shi'a themselves killed Hazrath Husayn. Another lie is that they spit in food while sending it to us during Ramadhan.

The Shi'a also say such things against the Sunni. This hatred is spread by our Imams. I wish they would stop acting like priests.
Actually, I was discussing with 2 shi'as, one believed this to be true, the other did not. I know that sunnis create alot of lies, but trust me on that, I do know some shias and they don't all believe the same thing (it is why I carefully picked the word some shi'as for this example). You can visit shia forums, yourself, look at shia sources and ask them for an explanation, I do not get shia information from non-shia sources. I am also not anti-shia!

Very few Sufi orders are affiliated with the Shi'a. In fact, the Shi'a were much more reluctant to accept Sufism rather than the Sunnis.
I wasn't linking the sufis with shias, I was just bringing in a fresh example.
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The Khan
10-13-2008, 11:44 AM
I see. To be fair, the Sunni also have differences regarding the Qur'an. The Maliki use the Warsh version, which the remaining Sunni use the Hafs version. While the differences are minor, only regarding a few vowels and consonants here and there, they do exist. I just recalled, the Shi'a view within a few is based on a controversial hadith by Hazrath Aisha about a goat eating a leaf on which one of the last suras was written a few days after the prophet's (SAW) death. I can't recall the hadith, as far as I know, the Shi'a have most definitely rejected all of Hazrath Aisha's hadiths. There's also another source, plus Uthman's burning of non-standardized Qur'ans (one of these was discovered in 1974, the scrolls of San'a, it is the oldest Qur'an discovered till date). However, yes, most Shi'a refute this allegation that they believe the Qur'an is corrupt or incomplete, simply based on the view that the other Sahaba had no qualms about Uthman's compilation. On the other hand, Ali's compilation was controversial.
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SixTen
10-13-2008, 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by The Khan
I see. To be fair, the Sunni also have differences regarding the Qur'an. The Maliki use the Warsh version, which the remaining Sunni use the Hafs version. While the differences are minor, only regarding a few vowels and consonants here and there, they do exist. I just recalled, the Shi'a view within a few is based on a controversial hadith by Hazrath Aisha about a goat eating a leaf on which one of the last suras was written a few days after the prophet's (SAW) death. I can't recall the hadith, as far as I know, the Shi'a have most definitely rejected all of Hazrath Aisha's hadiths. There's also another source, plus Uthman's burning of non-standardized Qur'ans (one of these was discovered in 1974, the scrolls of San'a, it is the oldest Qur'an discovered till date). However, yes, most Shi'a refute this allegation that they believe the Qur'an is corrupt or incomplete, simply based on the view that the other Sahaba had no qualms about Uthman's compilation. On the other hand, Ali's compilation was controversial.

I agree, infact, I have stated some MAJOR differences amongst the sunnis, regarding aqeedah (the one example I gave regarding Allahs attributes). My post in no way, was criticising shias alone, but sunnis too.

Their is a strong belief that, the Qur'an is complete in the sense it is fate, but believe that Imam Mehdi(ra) will bring the full Qur'an. Again, not all shias believe this, but their is no denying that their are shias who believe that some of the companions of the prophet had tampered with the Qur'an (with reasons regarding political, i.e. some shias claim Ali (ra) rightful caliphate was confirmed by the Quran, but the sunnis had removed it for their own political gain). So, you will naturally get a mix of beliefs. Some may be more moderate, some extreme, some minority opinon some majority.
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The Khan
10-13-2008, 11:47 AM
Yes Akhee, you're right.

[Al-Qur’an 6:159]
As for those who divide
Their religion and break up
Into sects, thou hast
No part in them in the least:
Their affair is with Allah:
He will in the end
Tell them the truth
Of all that they did."
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Woodrow
10-13-2008, 02:49 PM
This thread is becoming very sectarian. Sectarian discussions are not allowed.

:threadclo:
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