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fi11222
10-21-2008, 07:00 PM
Hi everyone.

I am a Christian but my Faith has been badly and repeatedly shaken by what I understand to be an undercurrent of Idolatry within Christianity, particularly in the US.

When Sarah Palin was nominated as Republican VP candidate I has this impression most definitely.
Please do not stone me to death. I am posting this link here because I am looking for answers.


For more, please click here.


In order to better formulate what I think the problem is and also to get feedback and hopefully trigger helpful discussion about what I perceive to be the problem, I wrote a couple pages and put them online. I would like to know how they are understood from a muslim perspective. It seems to me that Islam has kept a better memory than Christianity of what we owe God: utmost respect and absolute abhorrence of Idolatry. All comments welcome.



For more, please click here.
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fi11222
10-21-2008, 07:03 PM
Sorry, the above message has been garbled in the publishing process and I canno find the edit button ...
Reply

Hamayun
10-21-2008, 10:43 PM
You are right Brother. Where the Bible has been modified so many times the Quran on the other hand is in its original form.
It has not changed one bit for the last 1400 years.
Reply

north_malaysian
10-22-2008, 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by fi11222
Please do not stone me to death.
We have like 1 gezillions other things to do than stoning people all year round...no worries...:D

P/S: Only Muslim married men who have sex with other women are allowed to be stoned in Islam. And only a handful of Muslim countries are practising this execution.
Reply

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alcurad
10-22-2008, 02:41 AM
I don't like palin and all, but the link you posted is a bit too overboard with the idolatry theme. yes we believe christianity to have been corrupted by pagan traditions, etc but I don't really see the connection when it comes to palin...
Reply

fi11222
10-22-2008, 05:22 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
I don't like palin and all, but the link you posted is a bit too overboard with the idolatry theme. yes we believe christianity to have been corrupted by pagan traditions, etc but I don't really see the connection when it comes to palin...
Did you read the section of the website on ancient deities like Ishtar or Astarte, Venus, etc.?

By the way, I believe there is a connection with Islam there. Ishtar is supposed to be the daughter of Sin, the moon God, in ancient Mesopotamian religion. Sin was always represented with a moon crescent like Allah.

If you assume that Allah had revealed himself to mankind before Muhammad and was known as Sin (or Nannar in Sumerian), you can then see that Ishtar (or Inanna in Sumerian) was a gross corruption of the idea of a monotheistic god. People wanted to worship lust so they invented a "daughter" to blasphemously go with God.

I believe that something similar is going on now within the Republican camp in the US.
Reply

doorster
10-22-2008, 07:10 AM
I believe there is a connection with Islam there. Ishtar is supposed to be the daughter of Sin, the moon God, in ancient Mesopotamian religion. Sin was always represented with a moon crescent like Allah.
hm...:rollseyes^o)
Reply

fi11222
10-22-2008, 07:16 AM
Originally Posted by doorster
hm...:rollseyes^o)
Are you sure you did not misunderstand what I just said ?
Reply

doorster
10-22-2008, 07:22 AM
Originally Posted by fi11222
Are you sure you did not misunderstand what I just said ?
knowing me, it is very likely that I did.

Peace!
Reply

fi11222
10-22-2008, 07:48 AM
Originally Posted by doorster
knowing me, it is very likely that I did.

Peace!
What I am trying to say is that Islam was the solution to this sort of problem in Arabia, Irak and the rest of the Middle East.

Before Muhammad came, the region was up to its neck in the idolatrous worship of Inanna/Ishtar and its various derivatives. After, nothing was left of that.
Reply

doorster
10-22-2008, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by fi11222
What I am trying to say is that Islam was the solution to this sort of problem in Arabia, Irak and the rest of the Middle East.

Before Muhammad came, the region was up to its neck in the idolatrous worship of Inanna/Ishtar and its various derivatives. Afterwards, nothing was left of that.
Thank You! I owe you more than just an apology now!!

Peace!
Reply

barney
10-22-2008, 08:11 AM
Your first link Fi11221221, was simply a mishmash of highly dubious similisms. The best one is Palin on a motorcycle alongside the Hindu Goddess on a tiger.
Yep, thats what Palin thought when she sat astride the Harley. "Hey this shot makes me look just like that Hindu tiger riding Goddess....that will clinch some votes for sure."

I dont like Palin, I'm English and so havnt a say in weather she wins or not. I think she's pretty neocon and we could do with more stable hands at the helm right now.
She also has the asthetic qualities of a moose, and on that alone, if I was American, I'd vote against her.
Reply

fi11222
10-22-2008, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
Thank You! I owe you more than just an apology now!!

Peace!
Thank you doorster for the noble gesture. Go bless you.
Reply

fi11222
10-22-2008, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Your first link Fi11221221, was simply a mishmash of highly dubious similisms. The best one is Palin on a motorcycle alongside the Hindu Goddess on a tiger. Yep, thats what Palin thought when she sat astride the Harley. "Hey this shot makes me look just like that Hindu tiger riding Goddess....that will clinch some votes for sure."
Before you reach a conclusion on what I posted I think you should read the whole site and not just the section on Palin.

The other sections give more detail information on the similarities I think there are between Palin and an ancient Goddess:

- This section regarding the ancient history of Ishtar and its derivatives.
- This section about what the Bible has to say about Idolatry
- This section about the modern Idolatry of female beauty.
- This section about the girl-with-guns archetype.

Have you read these four sections in detail ?
Reply

Chuck
10-22-2008, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by fi11222
Did you read the section of the website on ancient deities like Ishtar or Astarte, Venus, etc.?

By the way, I believe there is a connection with Islam there. Ishtar is supposed to be the daughter of Sin, the moon God, in ancient Mesopotamian religion. Sin was always represented with a moon crescent like Allah.

If you assume that Allah had revealed himself to mankind before Muhammad and was known as Sin (or Nannar in Sumerian), you can then see that Ishtar (or Inanna in Sumerian) was a gross corruption of the idea of a monotheistic god. People wanted to worship lust so they invented a "daughter" to blasphemously go with God.

I believe that something similar is going on now within the Republican camp in the US.
I would recommend first you learn about Islam properly before you make a comment about it. If there is no good introductory course on Islam available near by you then Sunni Path web site has good for online courses.
Reply

doorster
10-22-2008, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
I would recommend first you learn about Islam properly before you make a comment about it. If there is no good introductory course on Islam available near by you then Sunni Path web site has good for online courses.
If I had a choice between LI and Sunni path to learn Islam from I'll choose LI



Brief illustrated Guide to understanding Islam
Reply

Chuck
10-22-2008, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
If I had a choice between LI and Sunni path to learn Islam from I'll choose LI



Sunnipath has proper online courses. LI website is good but it doesn't follow course structure. But sure he can learn from people here and LI main website along with courses on Islam if he wants to take courses. I would recommend taking a course because learning on forums and website is not same as taking a class.
Reply

doorster
10-22-2008, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Sunnipath has proper online courses. LI website is good but it doesn't follow course structure. But sure he can learn from people here and LI main website along with courses on Islam if he wants to take courses. I would recommend taking a course because learning on forums and website is not same as taking a class.
I did not mean it like that: I meant that if I had a choice between remaining relatively ignorant and taking a course from them at sunni path, I'll choose LI because for most part LI is a non-sectarian site and does NOT actively teach a version of ****ism

3 sites are on top of my hate-list (joint number one)

1) Alkauther academy
1) islamqa
1) sunni path

among my most favourite are
1) islamonline.net
2) islam tomorrow
3) almaghrib
3) LI

:w:
Reply

Chuck
10-22-2008, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
I did not mean it like that: I meant that if I had a choice between remaining relatively ignorant and taking a course from them at sunni path, I'll choose LI because for most part LI is a non-sectarian site and does NOT actively teach a version of ****ism
:w:
Well, sunni path has good teachers and I know few who have taken their courses from sunni path, and they said their courses were good and better than forums and reading articles. Non-online classes are better as their is personal interaction with the teacher. Online class rooms not the same, but still better then discussions on forums. Their 'understanding of Islam' course does NOT actively teach any sectarian version.
Reply

barney
10-22-2008, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by fi11222
Before you reach a conclusion on what I posted I think you should read the whole site and not just the section on Palin.

The other sections give more detail information on the similarities I think there are between Palin and an ancient Goddess:

- This section regarding the ancient history of Ishtar and its derivatives.
- This section about what the Bible has to say about Idolatry
- This section about the modern Idolatry of female beauty.
- This section about the girl-with-guns archetype.

Have you read these four sections in detail ?
Yes, and I took my tinfoil hat off, and it was still a mishmash of fantastical insanity. Palin is holding a gun. She holds a gun because she will get the NRA vote. She has no idea that it is a M16A3/1 that fires 5.56mmX45mm,semirimmed rounds. Its a black gun that will get her votes.

The Goddess stuff is simply batasscrazy fruitloopy nutjob laalaagaagaa evidently false rantings of the insane. I advise you to stay well clear of it for your own sanity.
Reply

جوري
10-23-2008, 06:38 AM
Quickly browsed here, and forgive me for my brevity ..

the 'moon/crescent moon' symbol came with the ottomans, has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam or God.. actually has a few anecdotal stories, one which was the invention of croissants, I read somewhere it was a way to vex Muslims by eating their Symbol.. well they can eat or stick it on toilet stalls the world over for all we care..
a Crescent moon doesn't symbolize Islam nor was it used at all during the time of the prophet or the empires that followed, until the last one (ottomans)

and Allah knows best
Reply

Malaikah
10-23-2008, 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by doorster
3 sites are on top of my hate-list (joint number one)

1) Alkauther academy
1) islamqa
1) sunni path
Umm... you do know that islamqa and sunnipath preach very different things, right?:?
Reply

doorster
10-23-2008, 07:16 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Umm... you do know that islamqa and sunnipath preach very different things, right?:?
Yes, I do know.

:w:
Reply

barney
10-24-2008, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
Quickly browsed here, and forgive me for my brevity ..

the 'moon/crescent moon' symbol came with the ottomans, has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam or God.. actually has a few anecdotal stories, one which was the invention of croissants, I read somewhere it was a way to vex Muslims by eating their Symbol.. well they can eat or stick it on toilet stalls the world over for all we care..
a Crescent moon doesn't symbolize Islam nor was it used at all during the time of the prophet or the empires that followed, until the last one (ottomans)

and Allah knows best
It's an ancient arabic pagan symbol used to denote Tanit and other Godesses and gods of the pre-islamic era. It was a Sassinian symbol of power.

I wont venture into how it became attached.
Reply

جوري
10-24-2008, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by barney
It's an ancient arabic pagan symbol used to denote Tanit and other Godesses and gods of the pre-islamic era.

I wont venture into how it became attached.
that is as irrelevant as an egyptian Ankh *key of life* is to the cross...
fact that the crescent moon wasn't adopted as a symbol until the Ottomans!
and where as the cross semblance to the Ankh or not has some weighty value to any christian, the crescent moon means nothing to any Muslim...
Reply

barney
10-24-2008, 08:21 PM
Well nope, the early Caliphs had it as a symbol. Political rather than religious, although somewhere the mix of politics and theocracy blended it in. The Ottomans started actually putting it on Mosques.

The Ankh has a loop at the top as i recall, but I would imagine that since it represents life that the symbol may well have travelled and got caught up with christianity. Jesus was executed on a stake, not a cross.
When creating a religion, always...thats always....buy into as many of the surrounding religions and cultures. It makes the transition easier.
Reply

جوري
10-24-2008, 08:26 PM
that is not true, early caliphs didn't have it as a symbol!
and would love for you to make the connection between that symbol and theology? especially using the Quran!

your dates are off by centuries.. Would really love to make you right as I know the whole marrow of your personal beliefs rests on it.. But again *annoying buzzer* you are wrong

you may read of the Ottomans and their symbol here on your very favorite source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

when making connections, try to make the end, come as close as possible to the beginning, so we are not left as usual with your posts to fill in massive gaps!

all the best
Reply

جوري
10-24-2008, 08:36 PM
this should take care of your 'history knowledge or lack thereof' once and for all

Name of Questioner
Abdulraheem - Palestine

Title
Islam and the Moon God

Date
11/Sep/2008

Question
A non-Muslim asked me this question on YouTube and I would like a specific and detailed response to the topic at hand, jazakumullah.


Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of pagan moon worship. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. Hubal was a moon god. Muslims confess that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kabah about 400 years before Muhammad. This in fact is the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world.



Topic
Islamic Creed

Name of Counselor
Shahul Hameed



Answer


Salam, Abdul Raheem.


Thank you for your question.

Some non-Muslims have been bending over backwards to denigrate Islam in hatever way possible. Their attempt to attribute a pagan origin to Islam is a part of their whole scheme of maligning Islam by any means. To this end, they have claimed that the idol Hubal worshipped by the ancient pagans of Arabia was the same as 'the Allah of Muslims'.

As a matter of fact, we have very little record of the pre-Islamic religion in Arabia. Whatever we know comes to us through isolated statements of Greek writers, poetical compilations of the old poets, and the few anecdotes and traditions embedded in later Islamic literature. Some information may also be gathered from polemical allusions in the Quran.

But whatever be the true nature of the pre-Islamic paganism, the one thing we know for certain is that it was Islam that dealt a death blow to it. Islam was able to wipe out from Arabia all traces of idolatry and pagan practices.

It must be clear to any sensible person that no religion has conducted such a relentless campaign against idolatry and paganism as Islam. And yet the missionary wants to depict Hubal as "the Lord of the Kabah". They allege that the crescent moon became a Muslim symbol because of its connection to "Hubal the Moon God".

According to Philip Hitti, the author of the well-known History of the Arabs, Hubal was a Moabite god known as Baal brought into Arabia:

The tradition in Ibn Hisham, which makes 'Amr ibn-Luhayy the importer of this idol from Moab or Mesopotamia, may have a kernel of truth in so far as it retains a memory of the Aramaic origin of the deity.At the conquest of Makkah by Muhammad, Hubal shared the lot of the other idols and was destroyed. (Quoted by Mohamad Elfie Nieshaem Juferi in his article on "Hubal in the Worship of Pre-Islamic Arab Consciousness" from Philip Hitti, History of the Arabs, p. 100, last accessed Sept. 1, 2008)

This means that a tribal god like Hubal could never have been elevated to the status of the One and Only Creator of the whole universe, Allah; but a god worshipped by the Moabites and later by the Quraish in Makkah. One may also note Hitti's statement that Hubal was destroyed once for all with the other idols at the conquest of Makkah.

It is noteworthy that the name Allah can be understood to be the same as Elah or Alah of the Hebrew Bible. The word for God in Genesis 1:1 is elohim, which is essentially a plural form of a more basic root-Hebrew word for God, eloh.

Furthermore, the Arabic translation of the Jewish Bible uses the name "Allah" to refer to God. Here is the transliteration of Genesis 1:1:

" Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawat wa al-Ard . . ." ( = In the beginning God (Allahu) created the heavens and the earth.) (Abu Iman Abd ar-Rahmn Robert Squires, The word "Allah in the Arabic Bible, last accessed Sept. 1, 2008)

The foregoing means that Allah is the One and Only God worshipped by the followers of Abraham, Moses and other Old Testament prophets.

It is true that a few Muslim countries — mostly non-Arab — have the crescent moon on their flags. But this has nothing to do with Islam. Indeed, the star and crescent symbol are very ancient, dating back to early Sumerian civilization. And long after the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) the Ottomans adopted the crescent and the star into their battle standard; though it had nothing to do with Islam.

It should be noted that the twin sources of Islam — the Quran and the Sunnah — do not mention such a symbol; and the flag of the Prophet was a black and white one inscribed with "Nasrun min Allah," "With the help of Allah."

Since the Ottoman times, there has been the public perception that the star and crescent is a symbol of Islam and Muslims, and so it came to be used in decorative arts and Saracen architecture, jewelry, and so on. Hence, they can be seen on the top of mosque buildings in countries like India and Pakistan.

It should be emphasized that Islamic scholars do not approve of the use of the crescent moon and star or any such figure as a "symbol" of Islam. Islam has never adopted any symbol, and so there is no sense in Muslims adopting any such icon.

It was possible that the crescent was on top of the Kabah some 400 years before the Prophet, though there is no record except some people's dubious claim; but the question is whether the Prophet allowed its use; and the answer is emphatically, no.

Remember that the first thing the Prophet did on re-entering Makkah after the Hijrah (the Prophet's migration to Madiah), was to break all the idols in the Kabah, including that of Hubal.

We have indeed no evidence to say that Hubal was a moon god either.

Islam as taught by Prophet Muhammad has been consistently and strongly opposed to the use of all sorts of idols, icons and symbols that may lead the believers away from the worship of the One and Only God.

I hope this answers your question. Please keep in touch.

Salam.

Useful Links:

Is Crescent Moon Symbol of Islam?



The Founder of Allah?



Allah in Pre-Islamic History



God… or Allah?


http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1217798706064

and for further reading simply follow the links...
Reply

The Khan
10-24-2008, 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by fi11222
Did you read the section of the website on ancient deities like Ishtar or Astarte, Venus, etc.?

By the way, I believe there is a connection with Islam there. Ishtar is supposed to be the daughter of Sin, the moon God, in ancient Mesopotamian religion. Sin was always represented with a moon crescent like Allah.

If you assume that Allah had revealed himself to mankind before Muhammad and was known as Sin (or Nannar in Sumerian), you can then see that Ishtar (or Inanna in Sumerian) was a gross corruption of the idea of a monotheistic god. People wanted to worship lust so they invented a "daughter" to blasphemously go with God.

I believe that something similar is going on now within the Republican camp in the US.
Actually, that's a common misconception. When the Ottoman Turks captured Constantinople in the 12th century, they found lots of crescent-star symbols everywhere and adopted it as a sign of good luck. Ever since, it has become popular in Islamic circles.

The history behind the symbol is so -

The chief deity of Byzantium (previous name of Constantinople) was the Goddess of the Hunt (forgot name, sorry ><), and her symbol was the crescent. Later on, after the Christianisation of Byzantium, the star of the virgin Mary was added.

It has nothing to do with al-Uzza, al-Manat, Hubal, etc. Absolutely nothing.

EDIT

Oops, my bad, I didn't read Okhee Skye Ephémérine's post. :(
Reply

czgibson
10-24-2008, 11:17 PM
Greetings,

Well, Sarah Palin has been in the public eye for what feels like a matter of nanoseconds and already the conspiracy theorists are busy writing reams of *you fill in the blank right here*.

Remarkable.

Peace
Reply

barney
10-25-2008, 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
this should take care of your 'history knowledge or lack thereof' once and for all

Name of Questioner
Abdulraheem - Palestine

Title
Islam and the Moon God

Date
11/Sep/2008

Question
A non-Muslim asked me this question on YouTube and I would like a specific and detailed response to the topic at hand, jazakumullah.


Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of pagan moon worship. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. Hubal was a moon god. Muslims confess that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kabah about 400 years before Muhammad. This in fact is the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world.



Topic
Islamic Creed

Name of Counselor
Shahul Hameed



Answer


Salam, Abdul Raheem.


Thank you for your question.

Some non-Muslims have been bending over backwards to denigrate Islam in hatever way possible. Their attempt to attribute a pagan origin to Islam is a part of their whole scheme of maligning Islam by any means. To this end, they have claimed that the idol Hubal worshipped by the ancient pagans of Arabia was the same as 'the Allah of Muslims'.

As a matter of fact, we have very little record of the pre-Islamic religion in Arabia. Whatever we know comes to us through isolated statements of Greek writers, poetical compilations of the old poets, and the few anecdotes and traditions embedded in later Islamic literature. Some information may also be gathered from polemical allusions in the Quran.

But whatever be the true nature of the pre-Islamic paganism, the one thing we know for certain is that it was Islam that dealt a death blow to it. Islam was able to wipe out from Arabia all traces of idolatry and pagan practices.

It must be clear to any sensible person that no religion has conducted such a relentless campaign against idolatry and paganism as Islam. And yet the missionary wants to depict Hubal as "the Lord of the Kabah". They allege that the crescent moon became a Muslim symbol because of its connection to "Hubal the Moon God".

According to Philip Hitti, the author of the well-known History of the Arabs, Hubal was a Moabite god known as Baal brought into Arabia:

The tradition in Ibn Hisham, which makes 'Amr ibn-Luhayy the importer of this idol from Moab or Mesopotamia, may have a kernel of truth in so far as it retains a memory of the Aramaic origin of the deity.At the conquest of Makkah by Muhammad, Hubal shared the lot of the other idols and was destroyed. (Quoted by Mohamad Elfie Nieshaem Juferi in his article on "Hubal in the Worship of Pre-Islamic Arab Consciousness" from Philip Hitti, History of the Arabs, p. 100, last accessed Sept. 1, 2008)

This means that a tribal god like Hubal could never have been elevated to the status of the One and Only Creator of the whole universe, Allah; but a god worshipped by the Moabites and later by the Quraish in Makkah. One may also note Hitti's statement that Hubal was destroyed once for all with the other idols at the conquest of Makkah.

It is noteworthy that the name Allah can be understood to be the same as Elah or Alah of the Hebrew Bible. The word for God in Genesis 1:1 is elohim, which is essentially a plural form of a more basic root-Hebrew word for God, eloh.

Furthermore, the Arabic translation of the Jewish Bible uses the name "Allah" to refer to God. Here is the transliteration of Genesis 1:1:

" Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawat wa al-Ard . . ." ( = In the beginning God (Allahu) created the heavens and the earth.) (Abu Iman Abd ar-Rahmn Robert Squires, The word "Allah in the Arabic Bible, last accessed Sept. 1, 2008)

The foregoing means that Allah is the One and Only God worshipped by the followers of Abraham, Moses and other Old Testament prophets.

It is true that a few Muslim countries — mostly non-Arab — have the crescent moon on their flags. But this has nothing to do with Islam. Indeed, the star and crescent symbol are very ancient, dating back to early Sumerian civilization. And long after the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) the Ottomans adopted the crescent and the star into their battle standard; though it had nothing to do with Islam.

It should be noted that the twin sources of Islam — the Quran and the Sunnah — do not mention such a symbol; and the flag of the Prophet was a black and white one inscribed with "Nasrun min Allah," "With the help of Allah."

Since the Ottoman times, there has been the public perception that the star and crescent is a symbol of Islam and Muslims, and so it came to be used in decorative arts and Saracen architecture, jewelry, and so on. Hence, they can be seen on the top of mosque buildings in countries like India and Pakistan.

It should be emphasized that Islamic scholars do not approve of the use of the crescent moon and star or any such figure as a "symbol" of Islam. Islam has never adopted any symbol, and so there is no sense in Muslims adopting any such icon.

It was possible that the crescent was on top of the Kabah some 400 years before the Prophet, though there is no record except some people's dubious claim; but the question is whether the Prophet allowed its use; and the answer is emphatically, no.

Remember that the first thing the Prophet did on re-entering Makkah after the Hijrah (the Prophet's migration to Madiah), was to break all the idols in the Kabah, including that of Hubal.

We have indeed no evidence to say that Hubal was a moon god either.

Islam as taught by Prophet Muhammad has been consistently and strongly opposed to the use of all sorts of idols, icons and symbols that may lead the believers away from the worship of the One and Only God.

I hope this answers your question. Please keep in touch.

Salam.

Useful Links:

Is Crescent Moon Symbol of Islam?



The Founder of Allah?



Allah in Pre-Islamic History



God… or Allah?


http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1217798706064

and for further reading simply follow the links...
Yes yes Skye. I already know all that.

You appear to be labouring under the impression that I am saying that Allah is an adaption of a pagan moon God?

Anythings possible, but the Cresent moon is more of a political symbol. The Sassanids and many other pre and post islamic states had it as a symbol, not of God but of statehood or on banners and flags in battle.
Islamic battle flags were usually plain black or Green,(the prophets favorite colour by all accounts).

So unless you are claiming that the Sassinids, early caliphs and pagan worshippers dont actually exist,(which knowing you, wouldnt surprise me:))
Then I'm afraid you will just have to get off the haughty horse on this one.
Reply

SixTen
10-25-2008, 09:01 AM
Probably one of the worst articles I have read, how they connected things with random things (like, her being on a motorbike, to symbolise that of one of the hindu gods on a tiger?). I got bored after reading a bit of it. A lot of crazy conspiracy-styled propaganda to be honest. And just incase I am accused of it, no I am not a Palin fan, supporter or anything, or even that of the Mccain campaign. I just know rubbish when I see it.
Reply

جوري
10-25-2008, 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Yes yes Skye. I already know all that.

You appear to be labouring under the impression that I am saying that Allah is an adaption of a pagan moon God?

Anythings possible, but the Cresent moon is more of a political symbol. The Sassanids and many other pre and post islamic states had it as a symbol, not of God but of statehood or on banners and flags in battle.
Islamic battle flags were usually plain black or Green,(the prophets favorite colour by all accounts).

So unless you are claiming that the Sassinids, early caliphs and pagan worshippers dont actually exist,(which knowing you, wouldnt surprise me:))
Then I'm afraid you will just have to get off the haughty horse on this one.
DO you have proof from an ISLAMIC source that early caliphs adopted that symbol even for political reasons? The article already defines to you, Allat, Al3oozha, Manat and Hubal were not moon Gods, I would like unadulterated history from those who lived and wrote it, not from the secondary opinion not founded on proof or certainty of folks such as yourself or the ilk of Daniel Pipes, to perpetuate a personal agenda, and pls don't water down your beliefs, only a couple of posts ago you were linking it to both theology and politics!
Sassinids, Savids, anything Persian really has nothing to do with early Muslims, anymore than the Ottoman's many centuries later adopting a pagan symbol for their flag.
You want to believe the prophet and the caliphs walked around with a moon flag, you are entitled to your beliefs, but don't pose it on here as facts!

thanks

All the best
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