format_quote Originally Posted by
Grace Seeker
As a parent I love my children enough to not just correct their behavior but also their attitude. As a spouse it is important to me not just what my spouse does for, but what motivates her to do what she does for me -- is she doing it out obligation, love, or what exactly? As a brother I talk with my siblings about issues of the heart not just surface issues because we truly care for one another.
So, here is my question to Christian and Muslim alike... If this is how we relate to people we truly care about, but we won't deal with the heart issues, the motivation and attitude behind the actions of other individuals does that mean that no matter how much we want to present ourselves to the world as loving people, that we truly don't love others as much as we do ourselves and our own? And if that be the case, then maybe it is in fact our attitude, our motivation, and our heart that needs some work.
In Islam, a good Muslim will want for others what he wants for himself, and I'm sure the same applies to Christianity. However, we must perfect our salat before teaching others, we must pray in the masjid regularly before telling others to pray regularly in the masjid, etc. We must ourselves become strong vessels of faith before guiding others, otherwise it's the blind leading the blind.
But, as a whole, I would agree and say we are not concerned about others enough. In the time of Muhammad (SAW) if a man missed one salat in the masjid, they would go and see if he was OK (maybe he was sick, or something happened to him, etc). How many times does a person miss salat in the masjid today before people check on him? One week, one month? Many times nobody calls at all. It's a problem we must fix in that we have to learn to care about one another as brothers and sisters in a community, not just as individuals.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Grace Seeker
Why limit this to pastor correcting membership? Sense you and I are protestants who claim to believe in "the priesthood of all believers," maybe we should understand that part of the responsibility I have toward my brother/sister in Christ is to speak to their unethical behavior rather than ignore it, saying that it is between them and God. Would not those who follow Islam have some simiilar responsibility toward their brothers and sisters within the faith? Specifically, should not the Christian church stand up to groups like the skinheads, the KKK, and other hate groups, or those who promote hedonism as a basic value in society? And should not Muslims speak out against al-Qaida or the Taliban when they practice things that are not truly parts of Islam and then seek the cover of relgion to justify that which is actually condemned by both and the Qur'an and the Hadith of the Prophet?
It's the job of the Imam to speak out in general against sin in his sermons, and for fellow Muslims to remind each other the perils of sin, but in terms of calling specific people out on sins committed in private, this would not be done in Islam. If a sin is committed in public, however, then Muslims have an obligation to set this person straight.
When I was a Christian, many times sins committted in private were not off-limits at Church. I would attend church and the pastor would call forward the sinners and tell them to ask for Christ's forgiveness. It was very embarassing and humiliating, but you would get many people going up.
I wish Imams would speak out more against the groups that are ruining this religion, like Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations, because this is the ummah's biggest problem. They will often make passing references condemning their actions, but rarely will they devote a whole sermon to it. I think it has to do with either people not fully understanding what Islam has to say in this manner or not wanting to create disunity or create controversy. These should be no excuses. We've had 7 years of living in an environment where our religion is being attacked by terrorists and the media. We as Muslims should know, if nothing else, what our religion truly has to say in regards to terrorism and violence. Sadly, few really do.
There are a few that have spoken against this very strongly (Shabir Ally comes to mind), and I commend them for it, but that is not enough. We need more voices out there denouncing this abomination of Islam.
As far as Christianity is concerned, I'm surprised I don't see too many Christians denouncing the so-called "Prosperity Gospel" preached by the likes of Joel Osteen. I actually was watching a Joel Osteen "sermon" the other day on TV. He didn't mention an scripture once. In fact, this guy could give the exact same speech and bill himself as a motivational speaker. To use God to justify striving after the wealth of the world seems very un-Christian. Didn't Jesus (as) say: you cannot serve both wealth and God?
Christians, what is your take on that last point?
format_quote Originally Posted by
Pygoscelis
The immense taboo in criticizing religious "faith" (Which some call "blasphemy") is a weapon used by the extremist to great effect. Even those of us outside of the religions have been trained to feel it improper to criticize something done in the name of religion for fear of insulting somebody. The extremists know this and use it well. This is a serious problem.
There's a difference between criticizing faith and mocking faith. If someone does something in the name of God and it's not something that religion is representative of, then that person has a right to be criticized, no matter if their Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc. Not enough people stand up to set them straight, but I believe the followers of that faith, and those who don't follow the faith (but are learned in it) have a right to stand up against that person or group who abominates the religion.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Al Habeshi
Please explain this, because I don't understand it. What do you mean when you say 'assured'?
We should understand various things, someone ordained to paradise by God will not lose that place, unless God allows that to be lost.
A Muslim believes in the Promises of Almighty God, and thus you have narrations from the Prophet indicating people going to paradise. But the Muslim generally is scared that he himself will cause himself to loose that place. This concept is the same, a Christian may be saved of course, but not if he is not a true Christian.
The crucial part here is not about being saved as a Muslim/Christian, but are you actually a Muslim/Christian. Let me break it down,
Christian (meaning he is good and all) = Promised paradise.
Muslim (meaning he is good and all) = Promised paradise.
The problem then arises, can we claim to be those two things, i.e. the two above. A Muslim say 'insha'Allah' God willing I am. A Christian may say 'I darn skippy am' yet we know that he may end up leaving Christianity later on (although some say the true Christians wont, even if we agree, noone thinks when he is a Christian 'I am a fake Christian' so he thinks he is true during his Christian time).
So in reality both are in the same boat from an outsider's point of view. Just a point I seem to have.
And of course Allah knows best.
My main point is that we can't be assured of going directly to Heaven except for some very special cicumstances (dying in the cause of Allah, whether it's in prayer, battle, Hajj, etc), and only Allah SWT has the ability to chose whether or not we die in that manner and die with conviction.
Because the afterlife is not black and white for a believer, we are allowed to have our sins expiated through either suffering in the grave, on the Day of Judgment, or in hellfire for a time if we are not pure enough upon our death.
This is contrasted with the Christian's view of heaven and hell; you either go to one or the other forever.
The Muslim believes that as long as he stays true to la ilah ha ilallah (and believes it with conviction), he will eventually attain paradise. We hate to use the words "guaranteed" and "assured" because we always want to have a balance between fearing the wrath of Allah SWT and also knowing he is ever Merciful and Forgiving.