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INsearch
10-23-2008, 05:16 PM
ok lets see If I can site this correctly. (Qur'an 2:9)9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

this has worried me :( I struggle with doubt all my life and this seems to have put more fear in my heart! how do I tell if I am deceiving myself or not? especially if you cant realize it? why go to Hell-fire if you do not realize that you are deceiving yourself?
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 06:50 PM
:bump1: (cuz I want people to see it :( )
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 07:32 PM
I really want to perform Shahada (correct spelling?) But I just cant unless I can get some advice on this:cry:
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 07:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
ok lets see If I can site this correctly. (Qur'an 2:9)9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

this has worried me :( I struggle with doubt all my life and this seems to have put more fear in my heart! how do I tell if I am deceiving myself or not? especially if you cant realize it? why go to Hell-fire if you do not realize that you are deceiving yourself?
Heres an interpretation of the verse from one of the great islamic scholars of the past, hopefully it will make it more clear for you :)



* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn



{ يُخَادِعُونَ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلاَّ أَنْفُسَهُم وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ }

They would deceive God and the believers, by manifesting the opposite of the unbelief they hide, so that they can avoid His rulings in this world; and only themselves they deceive (yukhādi‘ūn), for the evil consequences of their deception will rebound upon them, as they are disgraced in this world when God makes known to His Prophet what they are hiding, and they will be punished in the Hereafter; and they are not aware, and they do not know that they are actually deceiving themselves (mukhāda‘a [although a third verbal form, from khāda‘a] actually denotes a one-way action, such as [when one says] ‘āqabtu al-lissa, ‘I punished the thief’ [using the third verbal form ‘āqaba]; the mention of ‘God’ in [this statement] is for [rhetorical] effect; a variant reading [for wa-mā yukhādi‘ūna] has wa-mā yakhda‘ūna).
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Zahida
10-23-2008, 07:33 PM
:sl: Tricky........ But for me "decieving myself" means knowing that i am doing something that is wrong, justifying for it and then to carry on doing it......:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 07:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
I really want to perform Shahada (correct spelling?) But I just cant unless I can get some advice on this:cry:
forgive me for taking so long, i have just come on-line.


If that verse doesnt clarify the matter then please continue to question, i havent hardly any knowledge but i'll try inshaAllaah.


again apologies for the delay
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 07:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mz
Heres an interpretation of the verse from one of the great islamic scholars of the past, hopefully it will make it more clear for you :)



* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn



{ يُخَادِعُونَ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلاَّ أَنْفُسَهُم وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ }

They would deceive God and the believers, by manifesting the opposite of the unbelief they hide, so that they can avoid His rulings in this world; and only themselves they deceive (yukhādi‘ūn), for the evil consequences of their deception will rebound upon them, as they are disgraced in this world when God makes known to His Prophet what they are hiding, and they will be punished in the Hereafter; and they are not aware, and they do not know that they are actually deceiving themselves (mukhāda‘a [although a third verbal form, from khāda‘a] actually denotes a one-way action, such as [when one says] ‘āqabtu al-lissa, ‘I punished the thief’ [using the third verbal form ‘āqaba]; the mention of ‘God’ in [this statement] is for [rhetorical] effect; a variant reading [for wa-mā yukhādi‘ūna] has wa-mā yakhda‘ūna).
So.... this is more like... someone who says they are muslim so they can deceive Allah but in the end they just condemn their selves?
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
So.... this is more like... someone who says they are muslim so they can deceive Allah but in the end they just condemn their selves?
yes thats how it appears to me but just to make sure i checked out another interpretation :p

Ibn Abbas is a direct companion of the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam:

* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
Recite Verse

{ يُخَادِعُونَ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلاَّ أَنْفُسَهُم وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ }

(They try to deceive Allah) contravene against Him and denying Him in secret. It is also said that this means that they were so daring with Allah to the extent that they thought they had deceived Him; (and those who believe), Abu Bakr and all the Companions of Muhammad Allah bless him and give him peace; (and they deceive) lie to (none save themselves; but they perceive not), they do not know that Allah informs His Prophet about that which lies secret in their hearts.

Yep so it seems your right, it appears to be speaking of the hypocrites :)
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 07:43 PM
So I would hope then that this verse has nothing to do with people who are troubled by doubt and such in their life (like me?) Cuz sometimes I seriously doubt whether I believe or not :( but thats the thing right? you will NEVER know 100% that Allah exists but you got to trust what Allah says and not bother yourself about the logic behind it?
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
So I would hope then that this verse has nothing to do with people who are troubled by doubt and such in their life (like me?) Cuz sometimes I seriously doubt whether I believe or not :( but thats the thing right? you will NEVER know 100% that Allah exists but you got to trust what Allah says and not bother yourself about the logic behind it?
doubts are from shaytan (satan). The logic is extremely clear, no man will say that something can come from nothing. dwindling over issues will obviously lead to doubts, certainty will come from trusting and practising the teachings of Allah.

Everyone has a different level of faith, some believe stronger then others, the strongest one will persevere best, have most patience and display most wisdom in hard situations... also.. faith fluctuates, at times its extremely high and then at times it might go low. Its why we ask Allah to guide us so many times a day, we're constantly asking for guidance fearing we might be mislead at any time.


Allah certainly exists, the problem is... how strongly are you capable of understanding it.


When Allah wills good for a person, he gives them understanding of the religion (an authentic saying of the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam).

And the better you understand it... the more certain you become of Allahs existence !
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 07:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mz
doubts are from shaytan (satan). The logic is extremely clear, no man will say that something can come from nothing. dwindling over issues will obviously lead to doubts, certainty will come from trusting and practising the teachings of Allah.

Everyone has a different level of faith, some believe stronger then others, the strongest one will persevere best, have most patience and display most wisdom in hard situations... also.. faith fluctuates, at times its extremely high and then at times it might go low. Its why we ask Allah to guide us so many times a day, we're constantly asking for guidance fearing we might be mislead at any time.


Allah certainly exists, the problem is... how strongly are you capable of understanding it.


When Allah wills good for a person, he gives them understanding of the religion (an authentic saying of the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam).

And the better you understand it... the more certain you become of Allahs existence !
I am certain of Allah's existence :) ....... hmm now their it goes!! the second I say that I start question myself as to whether that is my own valid belief? uhhgggggggg!!!:enough!::enough!: I heard from a nice Jewish fellow that if you struggle with doubt and worry about things of that nature then you obviously believe! is this a true statement?
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 07:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
I am certain of Allah's existence :) ....... hmm now their it goes!! the second I say that I start question myself as to whether that is my own valid belief? uhhgggggggg!!!:enough!::enough!: I heard from a nice Jewish fellow that if you struggle with doubt and worry about things of that nature then you obviously believe! is this a true statement?
sounds like a wise jew :p


see theres a story, a companion of the prophet (sallallahi alaihi wasallaam) once approached him and was extremely worried and in grief. He said he has such thoughts that he would rather fall out of the sky then express them! the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam asked if its to do with faith and when the companion replied in the affirmative the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam said that every believer has these doubts, satan comes to the believers after winning over the disbelievers. There is a level you can reach where such doubts wont bother you, but you need an extremely good understanding and you need to obey Allah and fear him greatly.


i hope you take your shahada soon, you can enter any mosque and take it.

you can say it here too if you want because to me... you sound like a true believer :)
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 08:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mz
sounds like a wise jew :p


see theres a story, a companion of the prophet (sallallahi alaihi wasallaam) once approached him and was extremely worried and in grief. He said he has such thoughts that he would rather fall out of the sky then express them! the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam asked if its to do with faith and when the companion replied in the affirmative the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam said that every believer has these doubts, satan comes to the believers after winning over the disbelievers. There is a level you can reach where such doubts wont bother you, but you need an extremely good understanding and you need to obey Allah and fear him greatly.


i hope you take your shahada soon, you can enter any mosque and take it.

you can say it here too if you want because to me... you sound like a true believer :)
that.... just... gave.. me some super awesome peace :) thank you so much for sharing that with! me! just the idea that doubt is a sign of satan attacking a believer.. wow thank you so much:D ahhh the Shahada :) I am feeling ready :) but one proble imsad their are no mosques in my state (I think) or at least... their are no Mosques near where I live.
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 08:06 PM
lol may Allah guide us both :) ^ oh i see, well if you want we're always online for you :D well not always, i might hav to be offline inabit :-[
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 08:08 PM
Thank you :)
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 08:09 PM
sorry for the double post but I got a quick question since this place gets the quickest responses! do you say the Shahada in Arabic? in English or both? also out loud or silent?
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 08:12 PM
^ you can say it in arabic out loud.


let me youtube it for you so you can hear it and repeat with it :p :





:D



EDIT: sry was a bad link, looking for another one :-[
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 08:16 PM
on a completely unrelated note:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HC34OQ...eature=related

^ mike tyson declares shahada in english :uuh: lol



and ... this will warm your heart :) :

Media Tags are no longer supported



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WyapD4jFljg
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Hamayun
10-23-2008, 08:42 PM
Subhan Allah Brother.

Seems like Allah has chosen to guide you. I am so happy.

I went through the same doubts as you at one point. But the more I searched, the more I asked Allah to help me understand, the stronger my eeman became.

The Shaytan whispers to you to make you doubt. But the moment your head touches the floor in prayer they will disappear.

All you have to do is put your head to the floor with 100% honesty and ask Allah to show you the way. I promise you that you will not be disappointed Insha'Allah.
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mz
on a completely unrelated note:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HC34OQ...eature=related

^ mike tyson declares shahada in english :uuh: lol



and ... this will warm your heart :) :

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WyapD4jFljg


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WyapD4jFljg
had me close to tears right their :)
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 08:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun
Subhan Allah Brother.

Seems like Allah has chosen to guide you. I am so happy.

I went through the same doubts as you at one point. But the more I searched, the more I asked Allah to help me understand, the stronger my eeman became.

The Shaytan whispers to you to make you doubt. But the moment your head touches the floor in prayer they will disappear.

All you have to do is put your head to the floor with 100% honesty and ask Allah to show you the way. I promise you that you will not be disappointed Insha'Allah.
I must bow in order to take the Shahada? cuz I am about to take it in like... hopefully the next ten minutes :) I will be using that vid to repeat after that guy :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 08:47 PM
nope, theres no need to bow :)


you just need to repeat the shahadah with your mouth and accept it from the bottom of your heart.


may Allah accept it and guide us all :)
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 08:49 PM
ok thats good :) I am feeling ready :) to accept the path of the one true God Allah!! tho I have so much more to learn after this ! like prayer.
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 08:53 PM
^ its ok bro!

im online 9-5 whilst im at work :p ! so i'll be here for you!


and you can learn things step at a time, i just wish you had a few muslims to socialise with/ineract with.


if only i was in vermont :heated:
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Hamayun
10-23-2008, 08:53 PM
Sorry to confuse you Brother. You only bow down when performing prayer.

Subhan Allah Brother. I wish I could be there to witness your Shahada.

May Allah reward you in this world and the next.
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Güven
10-23-2008, 08:53 PM
MashaAllah ! thats great to hear :ooh:

May Allah Accept your Shahadah!
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AnonymousPoster
10-23-2008, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mz
on a completely unrelated note:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HC34OQ...eature=related

^ mike tyson declares shahada in english :uuh: lol



and ... this will warm your heart :) :

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WyapD4jFljg


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WyapD4jFljg
Ohh I havn't seen Ty for ages! Luton have fresh SG's now Lol. Refugees.. :mmokay:

Is he tekin shahadah. SubhanAllaah.
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 08:57 PM
Ash-hadu an laa ilaaha ill-Allah, wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan Rasool-ullah!!!!

I have done it!!! I feel happy :) but also just like.... "wow its done...... now what do i do lol" my heart was raising haha :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2008, 08:59 PM
Subhanallah!! This calls for another thread :d !!!
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 09:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mz
Subhanallah!! This calls for another thread :d !!!
Like what?:D
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Hamayun
10-23-2008, 09:01 PM
Takbeer!!!

Welcome to the family Brother. If there is anything I can help with all you have to do is ask.

You have just embarked on the most amazing and wonderful journey of your life :)

Peace

:w:
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AnonymousPoster
10-23-2008, 09:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
Ash-hadu an laa ilaaha ill-Allah, wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan Rasool-ullah!!!!

I have done it!!! I feel happy :) but also just like.... "wow its done...... now what do i do lol" my heart was raising haha :)
Woah *Goosebumps*

Everyone make hijrah (migrate) to Mz thread!
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 09:26 PM
HAMZA81
A person who has previously believed in Judaism or Christianity has to add: "And I bear witness that Jesus is the servant of Allah, His Messenger, and His word which He gave to Mary, and a spirit from Him
that used to be my previous religion.... but i did not say those things... does that make my Shahada invalid?
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AnonymousPoster
10-23-2008, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
Thank you :)
You're welcome =D


Oh him..imsad

Mz he said thank you to you.
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 09:34 PM
lol no I mean thank you to all of you :) you guys are awesome :)

My question above still stands tho. :D
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Hamayun
10-23-2008, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
HAMZA81


that used to be my previous religion.... but i did not say those things... does that make my Shahada invalid?
Brother, Allah can hear your intentions. If it is in your heart then he already knows :)

Allah knows best :)
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AnonymousPoster
10-23-2008, 09:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
lol no I mean thank you to all of you :) you guys are awesome :)

My question above still stands tho. :D
If you watch Tyrones shahadah, your witnesses (when you say the sahadah in the Masjid) will ask you questions, if you say you're an Ex Christian they will make sure you say those words,

If you look at the link Mz gave, he said something like and I testify that Abraham, Jesus, etc are the prophets of God, God does not have a son. (something like that)
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 09:43 PM
ok thanks guys... but my Shahada is still valid? lol thats good to here :)
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Hamayun
10-23-2008, 09:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch
ok thanks guys... but my Shahada is still valid? lol thats good to here :)
Yes as long as you bear witness that Allah does not bear childnren and all Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the other prophets were messengers of Allah.

If I am wrong someone will correct me but Allah says in the

[Quran: 64: 4] He knows what is in the heavens and the earth, and He knows what you hide and what you manifest; and Allah is Cognizant of what is in the hearts.
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INsearch
10-23-2008, 09:50 PM
Great!! :d
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Woodrow
10-23-2008, 09:58 PM
:sl:

Welcome home Brother. You always were a Muslim. You were born Muslim and was led away. Today you came home.
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INsearch
10-24-2008, 12:03 AM
:D yup!!! I am home! theirs no place like home!!
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alcurad
10-24-2008, 12:58 AM
welcome to the fold:)
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INsearch
10-24-2008, 01:08 AM
Thank you :)

ok the original post in this thread mentioned a verse from the Qur'an well I read a little farther after that verse (feeling trouble when I read it again because of my doubting self) but then I got to this verse still talking about those mentioned in the verse from the original post

"And when they fall in with those who believe, they say: We believe; but when they go apart to their devils they declare: Lo! we are with you; verily we did but mock."

So when it is talking about these people it is talking about people who say one thing but do another? it would be like when at Church i said I was Christian but after Church i was rotten and fowl and did not follow the Christian ways at all..... would I be correct in this?
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Hafswa
10-24-2008, 05:21 AM
This is the most amaizing thread I have read since I joined this forum :cry: (of joy ). The commitment in helping others understand and find the truth is beyond anything I have ever seen or heard in a long time.

MZ... May Allah reward you.

Jumaa Mubarak..
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-24-2008, 10:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by INsearch

So when it is talking about these people it is talking about people who say one thing but do another? it would be like when at Church i said I was Christian but after Church i was rotten and fowl and did not follow the Christian ways at all..... would I be correct in this?
It is talking about the people during the time of the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam who would act like they are with the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam but then go with the polytheists and say "we were just mesing with them"

heres tafsir :D :


Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs


{ وَإِذَا لَقُواْ ٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ قَالُوۤا آمَنَّا وَإِذَا خَلَوْاْ إِلَىٰ شَيَاطِينِهِمْ قَالُوۤاْ إِنَّا مَعَكُمْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُسْتَهْزِئُونَ }

(And when they), i.e. the hypocrites, (fall in with those who believe), i.e. Abu Bakr and his companions, (they say: We believe) deep in our hearts and are genuine in our faith just as you believe deep in your hearts and are genuine in your faith; (but when they go apart to their devils), to their soothsayers and leaders who were five in number, namely, Ka'b Ibn al-Ashraf in Medina, Abu Burdah al-Aslami in Banu Aslam, Ibn al-Sawda' in Historic Syria (al-Sham), 'Abd al-Dar in Juhaynah and 'Awf Ibn 'Amir in Banu 'Amir, (they declare) to their leaders: (Lo! We are with you) we follow your religion in secret; (surely we did but mock) Muhammad (pbuh) and his Companions.



so no bro this doesnt count towards you because you do not BELEIVE in christianity, and you are not jesting about islam! you are sincere :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-24-2008, 10:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hafswa
This is the most amaizing thread I have read since I joined this forum :cry: (of joy ). The commitment in helping others understand and find the truth is beyond anything I have ever seen or heard in a long time.

MZ... May Allah reward you.

Jumaa Mubarak..
inshaAllaah we will rejoice for you one day :)
Reply

INsearch
10-24-2008, 01:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mz
It is talking about the people during the time of the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam who would act like they are with the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam but then go with the polytheists and say "we were just mesing with them"

heres tafsir :D :


Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs


{ وَإِذَا لَقُواْ ٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ قَالُوۤا آمَنَّا وَإِذَا خَلَوْاْ إِلَىٰ شَيَاطِينِهِمْ قَالُوۤاْ إِنَّا مَعَكُمْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُسْتَهْزِئُونَ }

(And when they), i.e. the hypocrites, (fall in with those who believe), i.e. Abu Bakr and his companions, (they say: We believe) deep in our hearts and are genuine in our faith just as you believe deep in your hearts and are genuine in your faith; (but when they go apart to their devils), to their soothsayers and leaders who were five in number, namely, Ka'b Ibn al-Ashraf in Medina, Abu Burdah al-Aslami in Banu Aslam, Ibn al-Sawda' in Historic Syria (al-Sham), 'Abd al-Dar in Juhaynah and 'Awf Ibn 'Amir in Banu 'Amir, (they declare) to their leaders: (Lo! We are with you) we follow your religion in secret; (surely we did but mock) Muhammad (pbuh) and his Companions.



so no bro this doesnt count towards you because you do not BELEIVE in christianity, and you are not jesting about islam! you are sincere :)
Ok thank you very much Brother:D
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