Homosexuality

[ATR]

If anyone has asked this before, I apologize. I am new and, if you have read my intro, this is one of the things that bothers me about Islam.

Homosexuality.

I myself am not gay but I want to know why we see it as such a bad thing.

Firstly God made people homosexual. They did not ask for this. I mean, truly, do you think many of these people would put themselves through some of them pain they must endure, because they want to????

People say homosexuaity is disgusting but I submit that this is our upbringing that makes us thing so. To us, raised in the idea that it is man and woman we are not used to seeing people of the same gender, but then in a way, even hetrosexual sex can appear disgusting.

Is it right to deny people the right to be loved and to love? Is it right to force on people a change that goes against how they were created and how they are? Is it right to belittle and make them feel like they are freaks or have problems?

Gene Robinson is a bishop of the Episcopal church. He is a good man, admired by many in his parishes. He is in a monogamous relationship with one man. I know other people who are gay and do not deserve the treatment of the things we say about them.

How can I be expected to condone a faith that will send people I care about to Hell for something they did not choose? How can I hate someone or pity someone again for something they have no control over?

We expect them to change or to be celebate? Is that truly right of us? It has been shown that no one can really stop being gay and why celebacy? Why deny them the chance to be loved?

And why deny them rights? so many of the rights they are denied have nothing to do with them being gay. The only thing being gay should affect is who a person dates, not if they can serve in the military or a job or whatever.

The reason homosexuaity was condemned in the past was because it was fruitless, no children came from it. But in this day and age population and a risk of extinction of the human race, at least through lack of breeding is clearly not a problem!!! In fact some might say we are breeding too fast!

[Ushae]

Homosexuality is a choice, not a something you're born with. BY your logic paedophiles are born that way too right ? It's a combination of the environment you grow up in and the choices you make, just like taking up a faith is a choice ultimately. They do have a choice. Just like a husband who decides to have sex outside of marriage, it's a choice. Desire. Lust. Get it ? There's a stark difference between what you want to do, and what you need to do. See where I'm going here ?

As regards homosexuals being condemned in Islam. I simply have no idea what the rules are here. What does your friend go through to 'feel' like he's being outcasted ? From my experience, homosexuals have a propensity to be sensetive to certain issues sometimes fruitlessly, when there is no issue at all. Homosexuals have many rights protecting them in todays day and age, just like women do (at least in the West). If anything it's the men that are on the firing line lol !

There's almost no medical evidence stating that it is something people are born with (except very rare cases). Factually, ask yourself why a man would be attracted to another man ? The correct answer would be because his testosterone levels (dominant in men) are remarkably low and his oestrogen levels (dominant in women) are significantly higher. If this was the case, then it would be understandable why they don't find other women attractive and men more so. Find me a significant case study and I'll be convinced there is an underlying change (notice how I don't say problem, because I don't believe there is a defect to begin with). Why do you think there are husbands out there that have 1,2 even 3 kids and suddenly decide they're gay ? It's a choice no matter how you look at it. There are homosexual men out there who pumped (muscularly) and are gay, what is their reason for being gay ? I can assure you it certainly isn't a deficiency in testosterone ^^. My point is it's a choice, not a natural born change. That argument is bogus.

I'll take a wild guess here and assume you're female and have a homosexual friend that has been discriminated against.

I'm not knocking homosexuals at all, I don't really mind them at all. I only ever knew one, and he had the most attrocious mannerism and attitude I have ever encountered, however I don't judge the actions of the few to be the majority.

Personally I think Allah made a system, Males and Females for a reason. To procreate, companionship etc they go together harmoniously both emotionally and physically (obviously :D). If gay's want to be gay, so be it.

Tip : Don't bring a pro-gay topic up in an Islamic Forum buddy, you're asking to get flamed (no offense, just being realistic) go somewhere you'll get an emotional opinion you want to hear.

[papa_smurf]

God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!!:rollseyes

[The_Prince]

homosexuality is against nature:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJjYALoZJtA

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Mikayeel]

God doesn't make people gay. Maybe it’s not a choice they make to become one, but it’s definitely not gods fault. I have never seen a baby being gay.

How can heterosexual appear disgusting: S? If it does then we are all doomed!?

I don’t have the right to do anything to anyone; they can do what ever they want. The way I see it they do have problems. Since you mentioned god, i always look at the mechanism god created. A women and a male get together. They can have sex in a way which is perfectly suitable for both parties. The whole mechanism behind is very well created. But if we look at two males for example, there isn’t an obvious way for them to uhm do their business. They have to figure a way.... and it’s a somewhat disturbing one, a painful one! U can't say its natures way, because there isn't a clear mechanism that works for two males. So u see them buying all types of oils and nasty stuff to make it work. Had there not been oil, and god knows what they use, then it would be a much painful experience and I guess less people would practise it.

[جوري]

There is a good 12 threads on homosexuality on this forum, why not use the search feature to read all that has been already discussed in lieu or rehashing old topics?

btw-- Christianity doesn't approve of homosexuality either -- and as far as I know the bible is a done deal? and not subject to amending

Question: "What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Is homosexuality a sin?"

Answer: The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for then to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.

However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

http://www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-Bible.html

You'll forgive me-- but I have my doubts you were born a Muslim-- you seem like a full fledged Evangelist -- we come across them every so often assuming all sort of guises....

If you were in fact born Muslim-- and have spent your life learning Christianity, I suggest you simply embrace it and NOT guilt others into doing all they can to keep you from crossing over.. I think research requires books and scholars, not a public blog..

all the best..

[FatimaAsSideqah]

Greetings.

Homosexuality is particularly considered in Islam as an utterly odious and heinous crime. The whole tribe of the Prophet Lot (A.S.), which was engaged in this crime, was destroyed by Allah Taala through an exemplary punishment, whose ominous signs are still visible in the south of the Dead See. Qur'an narrated the story more than once. In the Islamic jurisprudence the punishment of the homosexuals (both persons) is harsher than the fornicator. All the religions including Judaism and Christianity could neither permit nor tolerate a crime that Allah Taala Himself described as having no parallel in the human history and being the most heinous in nature.

[Amadeus85]

God made people homosexuals? So He also made people pedophiles? I dont really think so. Many people who are gays had some troubles with personality or were sexually expolited by adults.
The normal behaviour is when man feels desire to woman. Other cases are abnormal.
This is one thing. But on the other hand gays should have all rights as other citizens with the excpetions of getting married and adopting kids. Its a normal thing, even ancient Greeks(who sometimes practiced homosexuality) seen the family only as relationship between one man and one woman.
What is doing now by the gay activist and thei lobby is a simple post marxist based false ideology, similar as radical ecology which states that -"its ok to kill humans to save animals".
I also have no idea how people who support gay marriages dare to ban poligamy. What moral right have people supporting gay marriages to ban let say - relationship between adult 40 yr old man and a 13 year old girl who agrees to be in such relationship. If we break taboo of traditional family who gonna make some sane borders of our failure human desires n ideologies. And at the end, what other sexual minorities will be made free from the opressive societies by the children of nowadays gay activists in future.

[SixTen]

Scientifically, it can be argued, that men may have been born to desire men at a later life.

But then, men are to desire women, a lot of times alcohol, pork, drugs - and other stuff.

In the end, you will not be punished for homosexual thoughts or desires - only if you act upon them - just as if you act upon sex before marriage - intake of drugs or alcohol etc etc. Allah knows, you may be born with it just as a test, as you could if you had any other kind of characteristic from birth.

You can be tested in many ways, I mean, he could have made you poor - which could make you unthankful or steal without need. He could have made you rich and you may have forgot about Allah altogether and went into haram. Allah could have made you beutiful and you could be exposed to things which he has forbidden which you may have not experienced if you was not beutiful. So many things, all can easily be seen as tests.

[UmmSqueakster]

The church you are so interested in is currently in the midst of a potential schism over homosexuality. It's not as clear cut as you portray it. Sure, there's a gay bishop, but most of the church is po-ed about it

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...819101,00.html




On a general topic, Allah (swt) tests us.

21:35 Every human being is bound to taste death; and We test you [all] through the bad and the good [things of life] by way of trial: and unto Us you all must return.

And He gives us the capacity to pass these tests

2:286 God does not burden any human being with more than he is well able to bear: in his favour shall be whatever good he does, and against him whatever evil he does. O our Sustainer! Take us not to task if we forget or unwittingly do wrong! "O our Sustainer! Lay not upon us a burden such as Thou didst lay upon those who lived before us! [278] O our Sustainer! Make us not bear burdens which we have no strength to bear! "And efface Thou our sins, and grant us forgiveness, and bestow Thy mercy upon us! Thou art our Lord Supreme: succour us, then, against people who deny the truth!"


Homosexual urges are a test. Heterosexual urges are a test. Poverty is a test. Wealth is a test. Sickness is a test. Health is a test. We examine the Qur'an and the life of the best example, the Prophet Muhammad (saws), to see the best way to pass these tests.

I suffer from chronic depression. Oftentimes suicidal feelings are overwhelming. But I don't give into them, because that isn't what Allah (swt) has allowed for us.

[Danah]

its something goes against the nature that allah create the human with, firstly it against the human desires in the other gender.
secondly, it will eliminate the human reproduction which is one of the universe feature if each homosexual couple decide to adopt children to have what so called a family
and another important issue raised after that, can we imagine the feeling of the child that will be raised having two mothers? or two fathers? just what kind of feeling he will have?

so there is no any benefits behind that in all cases

[Ansariyah]

Well, the thing u said about gays going through alot of pain. Thats not really true cause we all know that gay guys make more money than straight guys. Look at the t.v shows, the commercials, the highest paid hair dressers are gay nd so on. They are living the high life. I wud personally not be surprised if most of these gay guys whom we think are gay are actually straight:rollseyes, they jst doing it for the money!...I am not buying the whole I'm gay stories.

They are not happy, look at those empty eyes. u dont need to be a genius to see it, I see nothing but empty eyes, empty souls. Darkness!

People always go with the hype, someone got killed for being naked *revolution*, lets all be naked. Someone got gay now everyone wants to be gay, give me a break. conformists!

[SixTen]

^
I don't think money = not go through pain :)

[Danah]

Yeah thats right sis Yanoorah, most of them now are trying to follow the fade in being gays or lesbians

[Ansariyah]

^
I don't think money = not go through pain :)

ur right, But I think they choose to be in that pain, so they can get wealthy, and its workin just fine for them.

[SixTen]

I don't think people always choose to be gay. I have heard testimonies from christians and muslims - seeking advice - because they are "gay" and wished they wern't. Heck, even non-religious people somtimes, when they become gay, wish they wern't.

[Ansariyah]

I don't think people always choose to be gay. I have heard testimonies from christians and muslims - seeking advice - because they are "gay" and wished they wern't. Heck, even non-religious people somtimes, when they become gay, wish they wern't.

Allahu Allam sis. All I know is that ALlah created no gays, same way he didnt create alcoholics, You become, cause u choose the path.

If I do everything my nafs tells me, I will surely do some crazy things. Thats why we don't do everything just cause we can.

How did they get gay? that doesn't happen over night. You think, you avoid, & if you want to do it, you will.

[Hamayun]

I don't think people always choose to be gay. I have heard testimonies from christians and muslims - seeking advice - because they are "gay" and wished they wern't. Heck, even non-religious people somtimes, when they become gay, wish they wern't.

I have heard the same about Paedophiles. Some of them wish they could stop the evil thoughts but they can't :)

[SixTen]

Allahu Allam sis. All I know is that ALlah created no gays, same way he didnt create alcoholics, You become, cause u choose the path.

If I do everything my nafs tells me, I will surely do some crazy things. Thats why we don't do everything just cause we can.

How did they get gay? that doesn't happen over night. You think, you avoid, & if you want to do it, you will.

I have seen scientific studies to suggest that you can be naturally gay - you can even find animals which are gay :-\

In the end, its a test imho. Even in religious environments, I heard people who have had homosexual urges.

I have heard the same about Paedophiles. Some of them wish they could stop the evil thoughts but they can't

You are right, definately true. I actually read a testimony of a guy, who has such urges - and is so ashamed and so fourth (although he claimed he never acted upon them). I am sure their are many other strange desires people have too which they did not wish to have.

[Hamayun]

Yup. Everyone has urges of some sort but it shouldn't be made legal to act upon them.

I still think that it would be very traumatic if I had 2 dads rather than a mum and dad. Its just not right....

[Mikayeel]

:sl:

I am going to ATR a day to reply, if he doesnt then this thread will be closed, because most of us here have discussed this alot, if it isnt enough u can fish up one of the older threads.

[ATR]

Okay the big argument seems to be that people choose to be gay. That is actually a very popular myth but it is not true. People not choose to be gay and most of those who are gay don't get any money out of it. I know because I happen to have a gay brother. He had to leave home with next to no money because he would not be accepted. And then there is Bishop Gene Robinson who makes no money from his being gay. His life would be so much easier if he had not been gay. He was happily married. On his consecration as a Bishop he had to wear a bullet proof vest and he gets death threats. In fact this is a common story with gays who marry hoping to either turn off the gay urges, who think if they are with someone of the opposite sex. They often suffer pain and rejection when they come out and face their families and NO money.

Homosexuality was greatly frowned upon in the past because no children came from it. But this is a time period when there was always a high risk of the human race going extinct. For example, during the 1st century AD, women had to have at least 5 children each to keep the population stable. Clearly this is not a factor today.

As for homosexuals have uncontrollable urges or such. We seem to focus so much on sex crimes commited by gays and tend to forget far more are committed by heterosexuals. It is just so much more scandalous when it happens to be a gay man. We look at gays as uncontrollable, full of lust and desire, sleeping with anyone they can when in fact many of them have monogamous relations with one person.

As for God created man and woman. Here is a thought. Did God not factor in overpopulation. This is something else on my mind. We always use the excuse of procreation in condeming gays. No children come of it. Man and woman. It is almost as if God created us with our own timer to self destruction. We continue to breed at this rate we are seriosly at risk. People have kids with no thought just God created man and woman, sex is for procreation.

Yes, yes yes! I was born a Muslim! What do you want? A letter from a priest that says I have not been nor have ever been baptized? I was born a Muslim, briefly considered atheism in college, settled on agnosticism for a while and only briefly study Christianity for the last few months, not my entire life! And even when I initially started to study Christianity it was far from being for conversion! In fact the idea that I MIGHT be considering it terrifies me. Islam is a part of who I am, my family are all Muslim. It was curiosity. When I did not understand some things I stopped by an Episcopal church, I did not even know what Episcopal meant at the time. Now and then I stop by to talk to a priest there, who has done or said nothing to try and convert me. He has been kinder and more willing to answer my questions about his faith than most Muslims have been even though I am not a member of his faith and he has nothing to gain from me.

[Mikayeel]

People dont nessecarly choose to be gay. Althought some do and u can't deny it. The reason they are gay is something i think no one can explain, not even the person him self. But that doesnt give him the right to act on his desires, just like a person who claims to have desires for animals does not have to act upon these desires.

[UmmSqueakster]

I never said the urges were uncontrollable. Allah (swt) gives us the power to overcome the burdens on us, if we dig deep and rely on Him. I have urges to kill myself, but I don't act on them. That doesn't make the urges go away, I just learn to control them.

[brotherinfaith]

if you were born as a muslim and you talk about gays in such defending way i am really sorry for you.we are not here to tell god when he can create and when he can't and even if there is no children homosexuality is still a crime and if you read the coran you will find that god detroyed the people lut because they commited that crime and god's laws in this life never change.god says about man '' he sat and example for us and he forgot about his creation '' as god created you and gave you all you have he can create billions of people like you who will disbelieve and still give them all what they need that's why he is our god

[Malaikah]

we are not here to tell god when he can create and when he can't

:sl:

SubhanAllah! Excellent point - Allah alone is the true legislator, what He says goes, even if we can't make sense of it! We are in no position to tell God what is right and what is wrong!:thumbs_up

[ATR]

So basically it is blind faith that it is wrong.

Did not God give us eyes to see and minds to think? To see that the world has changed, that the reasons against Homosexuality are not valid? Did he not give us minds to consider so many things that can be changed because the world has changed? Did he not give us the ability to reason or is it simply we must follow blindly and our ability to think and wonder for ourselves is in fact a curse as it leads to doubt and uncertainty?

['Abd-al Latif]

Allah (god) says:

"And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: 'Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)'"

[al-A’raaf 7:80-81]

EDIT:

May I also add, there is no nation who recieved a punishment that was worse then the punishment of people of Lot i.e. those who committed sodomy.

[ATR]

You didn't even answer any of my arguments! All you do is quote the story of Lut and tell me God said it was wrong so it must be wrong. This is blind faith. Does not Islam encourage thinking? You don't even adress my arguments!

[ATR]

if you were born as a muslim and you talk about gays in such defending way i am really sorry for you.we are not here to tell god when he can create and when he can't and even if there is no children homosexuality is still a crime and if you read the coran you will find that god detroyed the people lut because they commited that crime and god's laws in this life never change.god says about man '' he sat and example for us and he forgot about his creation '' as god created you and gave you all you have he can create billions of people like you who will disbelieve and still give them all what they need that's why he is our god

See here. Not one of my points is raised. You simply say God said so, God destroyed Lot. I thought this was one of the things we looked down on the Christians for! That they take things blindly, that they are told not to ask questions! Am I wrong for wanting to know why? I am doing what is encouraged by Islam and you condemn me for it!

[mohammed_alim]

i think u shud shud do sum research of ur own, all ur answers r out there. there is 100's of islamic books to read on this topic and if u dnt find ur answer there, just simply look in the quran. my opinion is gay n lesbians n all dat stuff is 100% haram. y? because its common sence. its tells us in tha quran our proof is there! wat more proof do we need u cant have it both ways. theres a rite path n a wrong path to everything. oh man!!! its so hard to explain things wat am thinkin in my head is more clearer than what am puttin in words if dat makes sence. bt yeh if sumthin is haram n it tells us in the quran dat its haram then its haram y shud we question it. use ur head

[Ushae]

See here. Not one of my points is raised. You simply say God said so, God destroyed Lot. I thought this was one of the things we looked down on the Christians for! That they take things blindly, that they are told not to ask questions! Am I wrong for wanting to know why? I am doing what is encouraged by Islam and you condemn me for it!

I'm sorry for your brother, sounds liek he has gone through a rough time. Mind if I ask how he came about turning to homosexuality ?

Nobody here is condemning you lol, like I said before you obviously didn't read my post, you've made a bold step into these forums accusing muslims of being ignorant when you yourself are ignorant to our faith lol! I like to call this irony, try to keep an open mind. Someone has already quoted what happened to 'Lut', so I don't understand where your confusion is, please expand on this maybe I can addess it for you.

What exactly do you desire, that the quaran be changed to accommodate gay muslims ? It wouldn't be Allah's law then would it ? It would be our law ? Yes Islam does encourage diverse thinking, exploration etc but ask yourself what does that entail ? I'm quite sure it doesn't include sexuality as that's a given, but addresses intellectual avenues such as science, law, politics etc.

Your argument seems very linear. Procreation isn't the only reason a woman exists. To be blunt, a woman's purpose/role FAR outweighs a gay partners. Companionship, Love, Stability, Comfort and the list goes on.

Honestly, I find this post useless because it pales in comparison to the atrocious treatment other caste's, religions and nations suffer. People are being killed in mass for their faith, skin colour and lineage and you're worried about an extreme niche of people who think they have it bad becuase 1 or 2 people look the other way ? Realise this, you care about your friend and brother...you couldn't care any less about anyone else outside of your social circle. That is the difference between a homosexual and muslim. It is our faith and duty to give to the poor, Zakat, support one another and bring true world peace. What have homosexual's done to contribute to the world ?
Exactly.

Usman

[SixTen]

So basically it is blind faith that it is wrong.

Did not God give us eyes to see and minds to think? To see that the world has changed, that the reasons against Homosexuality are not valid? Did he not give us minds to consider so many things that can be changed because the world has changed? Did he not give us the ability to reason or is it simply we must follow blindly and our ability to think and wonder for ourselves is in fact a curse as it leads to doubt and uncertainty?

God ordered you to follow his commands. He said don't do homosexual acts. He didn't ask you to argue with him.

And, no, Muslims don't criticise christians for obeying Gods order, but they believe they disobeyed God's order by rejecting the Qur'an.

You seem confused on the matter of Islam, and religions as a whole.

[The Khan]

ATR, what I've realised is that Allah (SWT) has given us all some kind of challenge. I personally consider homosexuality as a neurobiological disorder.

I have Asperger syndrome. That is my gift as well as my curse. 20-25% of the world's population has some kind of neurobiological disorder, mental disorder, or mental illness. The rest has some kind of physical disorder. Most people don't realise that they have this problem or that. How you overcome it is the challenge. Homosexuality is a challenge for some.

Problem is, most people don't question their own faith and follow all norms blindly. I question everything. I came to this conclusion.

Peace.

[Playwright]

Life isn't really fair to some.

When i first felt something for a person of the same sex as me, i denied it. It came back stronger. I ignored it again.Ive now come to terms with the fact that its not going away

[Liberty]

God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!!:rollseyes

Oh that overused phrase!!
Any other boys names that rhyme with eve cos Steve's getting old lol.

Anyway my best friend is gay & he's Christian.
It is a constant struggle & I support him completely.
Love the sinner, hate the sin!
& anyway, we all sin, let's not be biased against certain ones.
I'll let God be the judge.

[Liberty]

Life isn't really fair to some.

When i first felt something for a person of the same sex as me, i denied it. It came back stronger. I ignored it again.Ive now come to terms with the fact that its not going away

=) Take it day by day bro & remember you're not alone in this fight.
Also being gay is not a disease, there is no prescibed cure, it is hard work and not a walk in the park. I really dislike people degrading gays >.<
It's similar to discrimination against blacks in 1960s US.