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crayon
10-29-2008, 05:00 PM
CAIRO // While the Quran permits a husband physically to discipline his wife should she disobey him, a recent wave of rulings by Islamic scholars are encouraging women to fight back.

This week, Sheikh Abdel Hamid Al Atrash, who heads the committee for fatwas, or religious edicts, at Al Azhar University in Cairo, Sunni Islam’s highest institute, ruled that women are entitled to use violence to defend themselves from abusive husbands.

“A wife has the legitimate right to hit her husband in order to defend herself,” the independent daily Al Masry Al Youm quoted Sheikh Atrash as saying on Monday. “Everyone has the right to defend themselves, whether they are a man or a woman … because all human beings are equal before God.”

Sheikh Atrash’s fatwa comes on the heels of similar rulings by religious leaders in Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

Last week, Saudi Sheikh Abdel Mohsen Al Abyakan was quoted by Shams, a Saudi newspaper, urging women to resort to “the same kind of violence” their husbands use against them, whether it be with a leather strap or a wire cable. (:-\)

Sheikh Abyakan confirmed his views on a popular Muslim website.

“The wife can use force in self-defence to counter her husband’s violence,” he told IslamOnline.net. “If the husband hits her she can hit him back and if he tries to kill her she can kill him in self-defence if this is the only way to save her life.”

A prominent Turkish Islamic scholar, Fethullah Gülen, recently went one step further, advising women to learn martial arts to defend themselves against domestic violence.

“I wish women would take karate, taekwondo or judo courses,” Mr Gülen told the Turkish daily Zaman. “If he hits once, she should hit him twice.”

Mr Gülen said the Prophet Mohammed and his companions never beat their wives. “It is a violent act to beat one’s wife,” he said, adding that victims of domestic violence should seek divorce.

Many Egyptian women were encouraged by the rulings, viewing them as a source of empowerment in a country where, according to Amnesty International, 35 per cent of women killed each year die as a result of domestic violence.

“I agree that the woman should have the right to defend herself and use it if she can, not just be at the receiving end of her husband,” said Zeinab el Sayed, a grandmother in her 70s.


But the rulings have not been universally welcomed and conservative Islamic clerics were quick to express condemnation.

These fatwas contradict the Quran on how to deal with marital problems and transforms the house into a jungle where it is survival of the fittest,” said Youssef el Badri, a radical Islamic scholar. (lol)

“Is this is how they are trying to fight the so-called male-dominated society, with women dominating society? We should be advising men to treat their wives well instead of inciting wives to beat their husbands and become like the western societies, God forbid.”


Many feel that the recent rulings contradict what is laid out in the Quran, considered by Muslims to be the literal word of God.

“I wonder what’s the secret behind these fatwas that favour women at the expense of men, which we’ve never heard of since the advent of Islam,” said Ahmad Mahmoud, 30, at a coffee shop in the Cairo suburb of Heliopolis. “Men increasingly are becoming inferior to women.”

Even some women’s rights groups were critical of the rulings, saying they encourage violence.

“These fatwas are a call for chaos,” said Azza Soliman, the director of the Centre for Legal Assistance to Egyptian Women. “Shame on those religious scholars for sanctioning violence between the spouses. This undermines the very basis of marriage as set by God on amicability and mercy, and undermines the rule of law as it increases and reinforces the value of violence in society as a whole.”
Religious rulings sanctioning the woman’s use of violence in self-defence have been issued before.

Last year, Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, a prominent Lebanese Shiite scholar, issued a fatwa on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women supporting the woman’s right to defend herself against any act of violence.
The fatwa reaffirms the right of women to defend themselves, both at the workplace and at home, and states that Islam forbids men from exercising any form of violence against women.

Physical violence in which women are beaten proves that these men are weak, for only the weak are in need of unjust violence,” Mr Fadlallah said at the time.
source-http://www.thenational.ae/article/20...123266633/1002

Your thoughts?
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Pk_#2
10-29-2008, 06:40 PM
Mr Gülen told the Turkish daily Zaman. “If he hits once, she should hit him twice.”

Goovy's brother, Gooly!

Yesh I like that, go girl wak him on da head wiv a iron!
Reply

Güven
10-29-2008, 06:43 PM
Why would you wanna fight with your wife or husband , then why tha HECK did you marry in the first place!

and pk.... stop it!! lol

:w:
Reply

truemuslim
10-29-2008, 06:45 PM
Lol u wanna fight take it to isreal wit real opponites not ur wife/husband!
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جوري
10-29-2008, 06:47 PM
Al Azhar has become a joke, all around really.. what a shame...
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Pk_#2
10-29-2008, 06:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
Why would you wanna fight with your wife or husband , then why tha HECK did you marry in the first place!

and pk.... stop it!! lol

:w:
;D Can't help it, you're so easy to annoy =P

Peace out Goovz.
Reply

Güven
10-29-2008, 06:52 PM
A prominent Turkish Islamic scholar, Fethullah Gülen, recently went one step further, advising women to learn martial arts to defend themselves against domestic violence.

“I wish women would take karate, taekwondo or judo courses,” Mr Gülen told the Turkish daily Zaman. “If he hits once, she should hit him twice.”

I dont agree with this....
if she hits twice then the man will hit thrice and then the wife four times and keep going till they are both death....

Maybe the men should take anger management courses :X


:w:
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جوري
10-29-2008, 07:01 PM
doesn't anyone else beside me find it odd? people are promoting violence back and forth instead of good relations? Sob7an Allah.. I remember reading something in the Quran about
'mawada, and ra7ma' aka companionship and mercy.. was that imagined? do the scholars read a different Quran and follow a different sunna than the rest of us?

I am so disappointed.. sob7an Allah.. gives one so much to look forward to in a marriage!
Reply

Al-Zaara
10-29-2008, 07:01 PM
Thoughts? Splendid news.
Everyone has the right to defend themselves, whether they are a man or a woman … because all human beings are equal before God.”
It surprises me many Muslims aren't aware of this.

“I wish women would take karate, taekwondo or judo courses,” Mr Gülen told the Turkish daily Zaman. “If he hits once, she should hit him twice.”

Mr Gülen said the Prophet Mohammed and his companions never beat their wives. “It is a violent act to beat one’s wife,” he said, adding that victims of domestic violence should seek divorce.
Exactly.
These fatwas contradict the Quran on how to deal with marital problems and transforms the house into a jungle where it is survival of the fittest,” said Youssef el Badri, a radical Islamic scholar.
Oh now "it contradicts the Qur'an" argument comes in handy huh. Those men do not even follow the Qur'an regarding this in the first place.

It is her right to defend herself, he has no right to hit her. It shouldn't be the man survives best, or woman, that's why it may become a fight of the fittest. It's the beater's own fault.

“Is this is how they are trying to fight the so-called male-dominated society, with women dominating society? We should be advising men to treat their wives well instead of inciting wives to beat their husbands and become like the western societies, God forbid.”
So called? It pretty much is.

Advice is all good, but how to deal with situations that already are that far? With giving legal options, of course.

They should ask experts in psychology and domestic-violence, what can be done. People like that do not take advice just like that if you recite to them, they need real treatment. And few go to those treatments, for several reasons, cultural especially.

“I wonder what’s the secret behind these fatwas that favour women at the expense of men, which we’ve never heard of since the advent of Islam,” said Ahmad Mahmoud, 30, at a coffee shop in the Cairo suburb of Heliopolis. “Men increasingly are becoming inferior to women.”
And what about the fatwas that favour men at the expense of women? Gimme a break. Women have for a long time been inferior to men, this is just an anti-reaction to that. People should become more open to finding a balance, but 'cause it's so bad, extremes come out.

“These fatwas are a call for chaos,”
At some point, yes, I do agree. Ideally there wouldn't be any violence. Yet for some reason many men do not get what is said or written to them, they do it anyways. They need treatments, and 'cause there are men who beat their wives as a dog, she can beat him back, for he is the dog.

Making a woman feel she can't fight against her husband when he uses violence against her, is wrong and then only getting advice to "talk with your husband, love each other, respect him" from the imam nearby, isn't gonna help. She has to defend herself, 'cause quite often it happens that talk is cheap.

Last year, Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, a prominent Lebanese Shiite scholar, issued a fatwa on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women supporting the woman’s right to defend herself against any act of violence.
The fatwa reaffirms the right of women to defend themselves, both at the workplace and at home, and states that Islam forbids men from exercising any form of violence against women.
Excellent.
Reply

Questfortruth
10-29-2008, 07:05 PM
Instead, of telling the women to use violence to stop violence. Why don't these really smart scholars preach for a violence free soceity?
Reply

Ansariyah
10-29-2008, 07:11 PM
So many men want to beat up women, someone shud tie all these cowards up to a tree, and let the women take control.... have their way with them!
Reply

Muezzin
10-29-2008, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
Instead, of telling the women to use violence to stop violence. Why don't these really smart scholars preach for a violence free soceity?
I was about to say:

'How about nobody hits anybody'.
Reply

Anette
10-29-2008, 08:13 PM
More violance is never an answer. I believe in elimination of violence against women is a better way. In every society.

Physical violence in which women are beaten proves that these men are weak, for only the weak are in need of unjust violence.
I agree.
Reply

doorster
10-29-2008, 08:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon

Your thoughts?
an attempt at restoring balance and justice at last!

:w:
More violance is never an answer. I believe in elimination of violence against women is a better way. In every society.
yes! but in the meantime what should the woman (at receiving end do?
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islamirama
10-30-2008, 03:21 AM
A while back there was a wild animal loose in canada. This beast was rapist and anti-islam. He would target only women in hijab and rape them. After several sisters were raped, the community was on high alert and self-defense program was initated to teach the sisters to defend themselves. Next time this animal attacked, the sister kicked his butt and he was handed over to the authorities. A side result of his was the domest voilent husbands started telling their wives "lets talk this over" compared to the usual beating they resorted to.

Violence begets violence only. It is bad idea to encourage the wives to do the same. It sure is a quick way for the husband to divorce her and be rid of her than to work on the marriage to improve. Scholars need to educate the society on proper marraige rather then look at short cuts of fighting back. At the sametime, women need to learn self-defense for outside as well as inside the house if they ever get stuck with an abusive man.
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Al-Zaara
10-30-2008, 05:07 AM
In the example above given, they learned self-defense, physical self-defense and kicked him. Wasn't that "violence"? That's what the fatwa wants to say, you can kick the butt if you have to. You shouldn't feel ashamed or think he can win you in the court, 'cause the Law is on his side.

Everytime I read about fatawa reagarding marriage I always see how they encourage talking and compassion. And when trouble it is always said to talk things out etc. It's all rosey and sweet, I'm glad some take up the serious issues in the society. Some of you obviously don't understand wife/husband-beaters. It's not in their hearts, it's in their heads the problem lies. They need help from the outside, if you talk once and all seems good, he/she slaps you again another time, for it doesn't go away if it has continued a while already, just by you, the victim, the waeker party, to talk to him.

I completely agree violence is not good generally, but honestly, I can't imagine it becoming a habit of beating each other. When you hit back, both realize something is really wrong and people will re-evaluate their relationships. Some would consider divorce, but it's not like they shouldn't consider it. They seriously should.

As doorster so well asked:

but in the meantime what should the woman (at receiving end do?
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
10-30-2008, 07:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
a) he hasn't back up his fatwa with evidence. the discipline mentioned comes with conditions/limits. what the heck is this...this 'displine' isnt intended with violence to begin with, so why encourage the fight back...

b) why dosnt she just get the heck outta a violent marriage (not that im blaming her)..and stop wasting time with this idiot?!

c) isnt it (this fatwa) just encouraging violence between the spouses. why dont they just get a mediator to help them sort out thier mariage or end it. simple. :confused:

EDIT: and why should i take my knowledge from a shiite scholar :/

doesn't anyone else beside me find it odd? people are promoting violence back and forth instead of good relations? Sob7an Allah.. I remember reading something in the Quran about
'mawada, and ra7ma' aka companionship and mercy.. was that imagined? do the scholars read a different Quran and follow a different sunna than the rest of us?
nope, i agree...:D well said!
Reply

barney
10-30-2008, 08:46 AM
Wives are told to obay the husband. How are they obaying if they are punching him out?
(Unless the husband commands them to punch him out!)

Also, If the husband as a final resort, after admonishment and banishing from the bed is forced, and i do mean forced, to take a feather or a toothbrush and lightly / gently in a loving way with no hate... tap the shoulder of the ungrateful and disobediant wife as a final and prescribed punishment.....

....Wont the lady quoting this fatwa- then breaking his nose in response- lessen the effect of the miswik tap?
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Al-Zaara
10-30-2008, 05:13 PM
^ Just in case someone misunderstands, that's sarcasm.

b) why dosnt she just get the heck outta a violent marriage (not that im blaming her)..and stop wasting time with this idiot?!
It's almost better you are ignorant about the matter, rather than being in such a relationship and knowing first-hand... If you talk with those who have gone through it, or read about them, you'd get a broader picture. It isn't that easy to just leave, for many it has consequences following them everywhere, it's so sad subhanAllah.

EDIT: and why should i take my knowledge from a shiite scholar :/
But you aren't. That's the Sunni side, the Shia scholar was just an extra-info at the end of the article, they did a similiar ruling last year it stated.
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Zahida
10-30-2008, 06:11 PM
:sl: Lol!!!!!!!!:w:
format_quote Originally Posted by Yanoorah
So many men want to beat up women, someone shud tie all these cowards up to a tree, and let the women take control.... have their way with them!
Reply

Zahida
10-30-2008, 06:15 PM
:sl: I like that......... If your not married then InshAllah one day you will make a very good husband and if you are married i respect you and your wife is a lucky woman!!!!!( But don't forget that to recieve diamonds you have to be a diamond.):w::bump1:
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
Why would you wanna fight with your wife or husband , then why tha HECK did you marry in the first place!

and pk.... stop it!! lol

:w:
Reply

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