Originally Posted by doorster
Do you know the Arabic term for asceticism? It is called zuhd,
and it was practiced by our salaf
, many of them wrote books on this very same subject.
Just because you believe a certain sect falls into extremes in this concept, doesn't mean that the concept itself is alien to Islaam! If you look at the books where our scholars describe other scholars, you'll notice that the term zahid
is used over and over - because indeed our scholars were ascetic, i.e. they were zahid.
Now the problem here isn't with the term itself, its with the actual definition which I think you've misunderstood. The Prophet (salalahu alayhi wa sallam) himself commanded us to observe zuhd
Abu Al-'Abbas, Sahl ibn Sa'd As-Sa'idi said that a man came to the Messenger of Allah (salalahu alayhi wa sallam) and then said, "O Messenger of Allah (salalahu alayhi wa sallam)! Inform me of a (good) deed that if I performed it, Allaah will love me and the people will love me."
"Practice Az-Zuhd (modesty in the way of life is lived) in the Dunya (the life of this world), and Allah (swt) will love you; and practice Az-Zuhd (disinterest) in what people own (or have, or possess), and the people will love you."
Ibn Majah, and refer to Sahih Al-Jami'
Do you know that Imaam Muslim has a book in his Sahih which he entitled: 'Kitab Al-Zuhd wa Al-Raqa'iq'
Zuhd is not abstaining from the halal
, it is abstaining from the haraam
while still enjoying the halal. It doesn't mean you cannot be rich, because many Companions themselves were rich and many scholars after them. It simply means disliking the Dunya in preference for the Hereafter, not falling in love with this life to the extent that we forget about the Hereafter. It is keeping the life of the Dunya in our hands and the Aakhirah in our hearts. It is balance in living the life of this world and avoiding extremism in abandoning it and extremism is running after it. If you wish, I can bring you many statements from the salaf
about condemnation of the life of this world.
Please understand that everything isn't black and white, there are shades of gray in between.
In my version of "truth" all halal pursuits are part of Ibaadat e Allah. I am not a person who dedicates his life to pursuit of contemplative ideals and practices extreme self-denial or self-mortification for religious reasons.
Zuhd does not entail the underlined portion from your post.
Even if I had been, It would not give me a right to cast aspersions on motives of a huge number of people
(who was it that told me in Saudi thread; not to judge many based on my perception of what I might think is evil of few?)
Akhi, if you believe yourself to be more righteous and more knowledgeable of the religion than our Salaf, then really, there is nothing more I can say to you.
are you now seriously wanting me to believe that wealth creators amongst us are not being judged and vilified based on such texts?
Please show me where I've stated this or rather where the Imaam stated this?
or that the man was a Seer of people's intentions/circumstances 1200 years in to the future?
Did he state this?
I do not think that all of us have oil wells oozing out of our front yard nor are all of us living on grants from Al-Saud to be able to spread the ideal of some mythical form of Islam
Don't let your blind hate and bias against Saudi dictate your perspectives on matters of the religion. Extremism leads to destruction on all sides of the playing field.
Please bring me proof that there is no Zuhd in Islaam.
I do not want to get tangled up in an argument that I know I am bound to loose suffice it to say that there is no asceticism in Islam
I want statements from the Prophet (salalahu alayhi wa sallam), his Companions, and the Tabieen.
The rigorous austere practices which cause torture to human body are strictly prohibited.
Whoever told you that this is zuhd
(asceticism) was clearly misinformed. Zuhd
and torturing oneself are like black and white, complete opposites.
Wealth creation is no sin for Muslim except according to those who are serving our oppressors and want to keep us in "our place"
I fail to see the logic here.
(I think that) another one of his "gems" was wanting to stop children from laughing:rollseyes
... man passed by a boy on the street while he was laughing, so he said to him: My son, have you passed the bridge over Hell?
The boy said: No.
The man said: Has it been made clear to you whether you will end up in Paradise or in Hell?
The boy said: No.
The man said: So what is all of this laughter for?
So, the boy was never seen laughing after that moment....
1) Akhi, firstly, loose that arrogant attitude. If you don't understand something, then ask because perhaps there are others who can explain the context
to you, which you are so obviously lacking.
2) The context: Look at the time this was said in. This was a time when Islaam was at it's peak - scholarship was high and the people themselves were of a much higher level of zuhd
than what we are at today. It is not suprising that an Imaam from the Salaf would remind a child to remember the aakhihrah. And really, it is even more important to remind the youth of the aakhirah today than at that time because of high level of fitnah
in today's world.
3) Look at the effect a reminder of the Aakhirah had upon the youth. Today we hear it everyday, yet our own hearts are too hardened for the reminder to have any effect. Yet a youth of that time had hearts that are softer than ours. He took the aakhirah seriously (in the context of his time). And in contrast today, you're making fun of them?! (with your use of smileys and arrogant language).
I believe the reminder will benefit whoever wants to benefit, and the mockers - they will continue to mock.
so now is it safe to conclude that laughing is another impermissible thing?:cry:
I didn't reach that conclusion, nor have I heard of anyone else reaching that conclusion until now except you.
I bet you that if we all started following his teachings, we'll all end up looking as if we've just buried our mothers, every moment of our life and fall even further behind than the miserable state we are in currently
Sure our state today isn't good - but believe me when I tell you that there were times in Islamic history when compared to them, our lives would be the likes of royalty. Change doesn't come about with changing the rulers - because the rulers are only a reflection of the people they govern. Indeed in the past when the Khawarij tried to kill Uthman (ra), Ali (ra), Mu'awiyah (ra) they too believed that everything would be solved by replacing the rulers. It didn't work then, it won't work now and do you know what happened? They were given worse rulers like al-Hajjaj. Change comes from the grassroots up, not from the treetop down. Once we, the people rectify ourselves, change is inevitable.