Are we allowed to say this?

[innocent]

Can we ask Allah to forgive us for the sake of the prophets. I've heard that in islamic songs.
What does it actually mean-for the sake of the prophets?

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

It is when one says: "O Allah! I ask you alone by Your noble Prophet!". There is a valid difference of opinion amongst the scholars regarding this since it does not contain shirk. Realize that this tawassul involves directly invoking Allah and is directed towards Him alone, by the right (sake) of His creation. It does not involve calling upon anyone other than Allah.

So you should ask the scholars you trust and go accordingly.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
^just been searching the forums recently and came across this thread...akhee could you expand on that...do you have a daleel, etc... cos i always thought that was forbidden...

[Snowflake]

"O Allah! I ask you alone by Your noble Prophet!".

I've never heard it put like this before. Translating crudely, my mum's version would be something like, "O Allah for the sake of your beloved Prophet, blah blah."

I too, do not see any element of shirk there, except I don't consider it necessary either. Invoking Allah by these words stems from the belief that Allah is more likely to grant our prayers if we asked him to do it for the sake of His beloved Prophet. But isn't that saying, Allah is less merciful otherwise? Or is it a case of, as Allah says.. "I am as you think Me to be." Allahu alim, I'd like to see both sides of scholarly opinions too.

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[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:
^just been searching the forums recently and came across this thread...akhee could you expand on that...do you have a daleel, etc... cos i always thought that was forbidden...

:w:

There's a difference of opinion about it, and at the least it's an innovated tawassul, but it doesn't contain shirk since Allaah alone is being called upon and to Him alone the Dua' is being directed towards. Read this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/tawheed-...assul-etc.html

In particular, this post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/691710-post7.html

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:

In particular, this post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/691710-post7.html

from the post

Bida’i tawassul is, as al-‘Allama Hasan al-Shatti al-Dimashqi al-Hanbali says while commenting on Matalib Ulin-Nuha, quoting Ibn ‘al-Imad al-Hanbali: ‘Tawassul through the righteous is for one to say: O Allah! I make tawassul to you through your Prophet Muhammad SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam, or someone else, that you fulfil my need’

It must mean by becuse if not, it brings a whole new meaning to it.

anyways I’m a bit confused between making Tawassul though the prophet (sallalahu aleyhi wa sallam), and by him...

To clarify what was said, the difference is that through him would involve directly asking him and that is forbidden/shirk because he is dead and it is forbidden to ask of the dead? Right?

But in this case there is a valid opinion because your merely asking by him to Allah...so there is actually no asking of other than Allah and there is no asking of the dead?

Is that right?

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

from the post

It must mean by becuse if not, it brings a whole new meaning to it.

anyways I’m a bit confused between making Tawassul though the prophet (sallalahu aleyhi wa sallam), and by him...

:w:

I think 'through' and 'by' in the context here are interchangeable, because if you notice, the one who the dua' is being directed to and made to is Allaah, no one else.

‘Tawassul through the righteous is for one to say: O Allah! I make tawassul to you through your Prophet Muhammad SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam, or someone else, that you fulfill my need’

To clarify what was said, the difference is that through him would involve directly asking him and that is forbidden/shirk because he is dead and it is forbidden to ask of the dead? Right?

In other contexts, I would say yes. If you're dua' is something like, 'O Prophet salalahu alayhi wa sallam or someone else, I make Tawassul through you so please ask Allaah to grant me such and such'.

Notice here that the one being called upon in the dua' is other than Allaah, and you're making the one called upon an intercessor between yourself and Allaah - therein lies the problem.

The former was a dua' directed directly to Allaah without any intermediaries. It's like you going to a king and saying, for your love of your son, give me this. The one being asked is the king, and the son is not taking the place of an intermediary. Wallaahu 'alam.

But in this case there is a valid opinion because your merely asking by him to Allah...so there is actually no asking of other than Allah and there is no asking of the dead?

Is that right?

Exactly. The dua' is being made to Allaah alone.