What would you ask a potential partner?

[Rhubarb Tart]

Gym and Phone is a luxury! You pay monthly subscription! For instance, samsung galaxy cost 49 pound one off payment and then 36 pound monthly payment for two years. Most gyms have monthly contract. So it is dishonest to say that is not a luxury especially if you can go to park for run and push up instead of gym and have simple pay as go phone.. Only mentioned this because most brother here run to term 'low maintenance'. I am giving food for thought.

Yes, marriage is compromise but it tends to be woman that sacrifice the most.

[CosmicPathos]

It might be his money but it would make a Hypocrite if expect his wife not to work and live simple life whilst he is high maintenance, himself. If you expect your wife to be low maintenance, you should be expected to live the same. Plus, this is just mean and selfish.
Once you get married, it isn't just your money any more.

If the wife can maintain high maintenance from her own money, I dont have a problem and dont expect her to be low maintenance, just dont ask money from me!! In such case, she can work and make her money if she wants to! but then it would be 50-50 for running the house, feeding the kids, as it is done in majority of marriages in North America.

[GuestFellow]

^ Sounds practicable. I'm sure you would help her out if she runs into financial difficulties.

If I had a fiancee/wife, I would have bought her loads of gifts... :/ Well actually, the gift would be the money and she can spend it on whatever she wants. I wouldn't want her to work.

[GuestFellow]

Gym and Phone is a luxury! You pay monthly subscription! For instance, samsung galaxy cost 49 pound one off payment and then 36 pound monthly payment for two years. Most gyms have monthly contract. So it is dishonest to say that is not a luxury especially if you can go to park for run and push up instead of gym and have simple pay as go phone.. Only mentioned this because most brother here run to term 'low maintenance'. I am giving food for thought.

Yes, marriage is compromise but it tends to be woman that sacrifice the most.

I agree. Going to gym and these phones are luxury. Most people cannot afford this due to low wages. Those that do purchase these items will likely fall into financial difficulties if they continue this spending pattern.

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[CosmicPathos]

^ Sounds practicable. I'm sure you would help her out if she runs into financial difficulties.

Id' sure try to help her out with necessities if she is in financial trouble. But if shes in financial trouble and still wants to go out with girl friends every other day for food, sorry use your own money.

[CosmicPathos]

Going to gym and these phones are luxury

what the?

Gym is not a luxury. it is a necessity for healthy living. Cardio training + strength training = healthiest way to live one's limited life and healthiest way to make the best out of the flesh we are born in.

['Abd-al Latif]

I'm not arguing with anyone here but a phone has become a necessity. Phones have evolved to become essential items in some businesses and in some cases general daily use. Calling it anything less then that would really apply to someone who is largely disconnected with today's world. Maybe school children can live without it but it will become very difficult for adults.

Gym again is not a luxury and a monthly subscription does not count as excessive spending. I can have a monthly subscription for a magazine that costs me £2.99 a month, is this luxury? Definitely not. Good health is praised in Islam and the benefits of a healthy lifestyle are all too evident. Do you really encourage giving up good health for a pot belly?

I know of brothers who have monthly phone contracts, go the gym, pay a fair share of bills and still have enough money left over to pay for their brother's wedding. And being close friends with such people I can tell you that they are on an average income.

Gym is a luxury for the one who lives in extreme financial conditions. For the rest of the people it's cheap but largely effective way of staying healthy.

[GuestFellow]

what the?

Gym is not a luxury. it is a necessity for healthy living. Cardio training + strength training = healthiest way to live one's limited life and healthiest way to make the best out of the flesh we are born in.

Asslamu Aliakum,

Ah you don't need to go gym to exercise. You can always jog, do push ups, skip and so on. I know many people that cannot afford to go to the gym because it is expensive.

[Hulk]

Just get some resistant bands and train at home with wifey ;D

[GuestFellow]

I'm not arguing with anyone here but a phone has become a necessity. Phones have evolved to become essential items in some businesses and in some cases general daily use. Calling it anything less then that would really apply to someone who is largely disconnected with today's world. Maybe school children can live without it but it will become very difficult for adults.

Asslamu Aliakum,

Smartphone are luxury items. I have met many clients who are struggling to meet the bills and would consider these items luxury. I assume your referring to a basic mobile phone that range between £50 to £100.

Gym again is not a luxury and a monthly subscription does not count as excessive spending. I can have a monthly subscription for a magazine that costs me £2.99 a month, is this luxury? Definitely not. Good health is praised in Islam and the benefits of a healthy lifestyle are all too evident. Do you really encourage giving up good health for a pot belly?

No one said for you to have a big belly. You do not need to go gym to be healthy. If you pay towards a mortgage, bill, taxes, insurance, food, travel, clothes, pension and so on, you will realise all this adds up. Most people struggle with basic necessities now due to the financial crisis. Some even rely on food stamps and this is increasingly common.

Gym is a luxury for the one who lives in extreme financial conditions. For the rest of the people it's cheap but largely effective way of staying healthy.

Id' sure try to help her out with necessities if she is in financial trouble. But if shes in financial trouble and still wants to go out with girl friends every other day for food, sorry use your own money.

I would still use the money (if I have any) to keep her happy.

[GuestFellow]

Just get some resistant bands and train at home with wifey ;D

Both spouses can even have a boxing match...good exercise. :skeleton:

[CosmicPathos]

I would still use the money (if I have any) to keep her happy.

If you cannot keep yourself happy, you cannot keep anyone else happy. Personal happiness comes before others'. As simple as that.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:w:

Hmm interesting. I wouldn't define high maintenance materially but rather as a mindset and personality/character traits. Material possessions are dependent on the capacity of a person and what is considered extravagance for one is not necessarily extravagance for another.

It's a mindset and/or character traits. High-maintenance would be someone who:

0) Requires way toooooo much attention, emotionally needy, or always over dramatizes situations, narcissistic
i) buys significantly more than they need in order to stay up to date with the latest trends. Keyword: significantly
ii) someone who is shallow and material - we all are to an extent, but someone who always wants the latest of everything, someone who wouldn't wear the same clothes twice in a week etc
iii) Someone who isn't chill - always stressing about whether her clothes match perfectly, someone who would expect their man to always be in line with the latest fashion. nothing wrong with a well dressed man, but she shouldn't pester him on whether his socks don't match his shirt collar
iv) someone who takes a few hours to get ready to go to the grocery store - over obsessed with looks. again this is a good quality when it's in moderation
v) who values her needs more than her man's and wants him to succumb to her every wish, expects her man's life to revolve around her, self-centered

To the sisters: Please don't be that girl.

:sl:

If a brother was to ask and expect me to be low maintenance. I would ask what phone he has, whether he attends gym weekly and goes out with his friends to nice restaurant. If his answer is sumsung galaxy three or iPhone 5 plus tablet, does attend gym and goes with his friends. I would run a mile.....


Because he would be a Hypocrite.


And if he was to mention how he is the leader of the household WITHOUT mentioning that he would ask your opinion and consider it. I would run a mile.

:)
I can't believe someone has 99 question. Most of you need more then one meeting.

[CosmicPathos]

To the sisters: Please don't be that girl.

Is it possible to marry a woman who does not want to be loved? If yes, let me know where she lives!

[Cabdullahi]

Is it possible to marry a woman who does not want to be loved? If yes, let me know where she lives!

I'm only in the marriage business for 2 things, to love a woman and to gain half my religion, it's as if they were created to be loved and cherished.

Don't think of them to be the enemy, never have that mindset.

The way of the prophet in terms of dealing with his wives = rational

I dont want to love my wife and she should not expect love = irrational.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Is it possible to marry a woman who does not want to be loved? If yes, let me know where she lives!

Why would anyone even want something like that?

[~Zaria~]

I think sister Rhubarb Tarts point is that if a brother is expecting his wife to live a certain lifestyle, then he too should be living the same.

Perhaps the examples of samsung galaxy/ iphone 5/ gym are not the best to use (as there are many people who can afford these items and live simply in all other respects).
One may rightfully argue that we dont need the best mobile phones on the market, but neither are these items haraam in themselves (unless one is incurring debt in order to obtain it).

In the past, ive had 2 'higher-ranged' phones (of which ive lost both through pick-pocketting ; ( ), and i also go to a ladies-gym.
Yet, i live very simply in all other aspects......which is honestly, the best way to live. Alhamdulillah, the less you own, the better life gets : )

Is it possible to marry a woman who does not want to be loved? If yes, let me know where she lives!

One of the most painful things in marriage, has got to be feeling unloved by the other - esp. for a woman.
Women are emotional beings, and while (some) men may not require the loving words and romantic gestures, most women do.

To love and be loved is such a beautiful part of life - why would you want to deny yourself and someone else this amazing feeling?

If one does not experience love within a marriage, then where should he/ she expect to find it?

The purpose of marriage is to Love..... (apart from other things).

Its not a business contract - a contract just between 2 minds.
Marriage is a contract between 2 hearts and souls.

[CosmicPathos]

I'm only in the marriage business for 2 things, to love a woman and to gain half my religion, it's as if they were created to be loved and cherished.

To love a woman or women? You fo real brah, you changed?

Did Prophet pbuh, whose example you so quickly machine gunned us with, equally loved his wives? You did not live with Prophet, do not claim to know what was in his heart.

[CosmicPathos]

Why would anyone even want something like that?

I was joking btw.

But even if someone wanted that, I do not see much wrong with it. Some people are not good at loving nor do they want to be loved. They just want some biological needs met in a way prescribed by God. What do you say about them? Dont say fasting.

[CosmicPathos]

The purpose of marriage is to Love..... (apart from other things).

"if it is true that there are as many minds as there are men, then there are as many kinds of love as there are hearts." --Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina.

We dont even know if love between two spouses means same thing to both or not and it should not as love means different things to different hearts. I wouldnt base any relationship solely on such an undefined feeling thence. Nor should any Muslim brother/sister.

[Periwinkle18]

Hmm Duno if we're allowed to I mite ask wht they're dng for Allah n wht they like n dislike. N how they came closer to Allah. Well I guess u get to knw a person once u start living with them.

I would just want someone who would help me b a good muslimah.

[CosmicPathos]

I would just want someone who would help me b a good muslimah.

Sis, I advise you to not think like that. If you cannot make yourself good, no one else can or will, even if its your spouse, they'll actually might become disinterested if you cannot remain independent and self-reliant. No one will fix your problems, only you can.

Moreover, Allah did not make us incomplete so that we need help from others to become good. Find the spark within, make yourself good with sweat, blood and everything will be yours.

[~Zaria~]

"if it is true that there are as many minds as there are men, then there are as many kinds of love as there are hearts." --Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina.

We dont even know if love between two spouses means same thing to both or not and it should not as love means different things to different hearts. I wouldnt base any relationship solely on such an undefined feeling thence. Nor should any Muslim brother/sister.

This is true - what one person expects in love, may not be the same as the other.

In general terms though, I think many women want to feel loved in a marriage - through sweet words, honest admiration, acts of romance (letters, poems, flowers)......anything that sends the message that: 'You're special to me, and I dearly love you!'

^ Im this type of person - often lost in day-dreams and a die-hard romantic at heart ; /
And for women like me, not experiencing these acts of love, can take the spark out of a marriage, and leaves the broken-hearted person wondering what is wrong with her.

Love is not the only ingredient in a marriage, but it is certainly an important one.
(A foundation that is strong in love (as well as deen), makes the hurdles that one will face in a marriage that much easier to bear......for there is always something beautiful to go back to, despite the challenges that all marriages will have.)

Which is why we should always include in our duaas, that Allah blesses us with not only a righteous spouse......but a compatible one as well.

Considering that a marriage is meant to last a life-time, it makes a difference if both parties are on a similiar emotional wave-length.

[Cabdullahi]

To love a woman or women? You fo real brah, you changed?

Did Prophet pbuh, whose example you so quickly machine gunned us with, equally loved his wives? You did not live with Prophet, do not claim to know what was in his heart.

I didnt change, we were given the ability to offer and exhibit love by Allah so why should we suppress and hold it back.

It doesnt make us unmanly.

As long as you stay away from gold diggers, i'm-going-to-make-your-life-hell-by-being-loud-and-fiesty sisters or the 'lets order takeway everyday...can we play some xbox...can i wear your tracksuit bottoms....lets arm wrestle...can i use your deodorant...can i use your beard trimmer i just need to handle these fine hairs before they develop into a mullah omar beard.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Sis, I advise you to not think like that. If you cannot make yourself good, no one else can or will, even if its your spouse, they'll actually might become disinterested if you cannot remain independent and self-reliant. No one will fix your problems, only you can.

Moreover, Allah did not make us incomplete so that we need help from others to become good. Find the spark within, make yourself good with sweat, blood and everything will be yours.

good sincere advise but I think the sis just meant someone will help rather then make it difficult (IE a hubby who is a dayyuf ie has no jelousy towards his wife - will destroy a marriage)

its good to want a partner who will make practising islam easier.

My sister has been married to a very good religious man mashAllah for 2 years now, and she strongly states that islam is far easier to follow now then before marriage.

[جوري]

This is true - what one person expects in love, may not be the same as the other.

In general terms though, I think many women want to feel loved in a marriage - through sweet words, honest admiration, acts of romance (letters, poems, flowers)......anything that sends the message that: 'You're special to me, and I dearly love you!'

^ Im this type of person - often lost in day-dreams and a die-hard romantic at heart ; /
.

there was a case a couple of years ago and it only made the news because the girl's father is an orthopedist, she fell Ill with ca. and had to undergo some surgery don't remember all the details other than the surgeon was incompetent, botched her operation then tried to cover up his mistakes, her husband while she lay dying with no working equipment or suction would take her vomit in his mouth and spit it so she wouldn't aspirate- she died eventually but that to me is love. You can and always will be romanced and bought flowers when you're a vision in the prime of your life - the secret I think is when things stink badly and the person doesn't dump you with the first opportunity.

[Cabdullahi]

There's nothing like vomit juice!

[جوري]

Vomit isn't the punch line ya عبد الله this thread idealizes the institution to a cartoonish like state.
When my uncle lay dying his wife of 20+ years and three kids didn't want to go to his room because they thought he was contagious- It's an interesting contrast IMHO anyway love exists in the small everyday details not in the nice gestures when the times are good!

:w:

[Re.TiReD]

...can we play some xbox...can i wear your tracksuit bottoms....lets arm wrestle...

^ I don't see anything wrong with any of the above, is it just me?

I've been thinking about the 'ideal' husband all morning actually, and I've realised that I thought I knew what I was looking for before I got married, but in reality I didn't. It was only after marriage that I had moments where I thought, ok I wasn't looking for that but I am so glad it's there, alhamdulillah. Does that even make sense? I've forgotten how to express myself on forums :skeleton:

[Re.TiReD]

In reply to a previous post

I don’t know how you’d find these things out by meeting only once or twice and most people probably never will until they get married but that’s the beauty of it:

• A real man, your protector, somebody you feel safe with, but at the same time gentle enough to appreciate a woman’s sensitive nature and not brand her too ‘emotionally needy’
• Streetwise and smart (so many things fall under this I’m not going to bother elaborating)
• Somebody who realises his duty towards his parents as well as his duty towards you. Strives to give both their rights as opposed to expecting his wife to somehow fit in to the household and way life was before marriage. Some things need to change.
• Somebody you can have fun with and enjoy life with, whether that means arm wrestling, having races or travelling the world.
• Reasonable, patient, understanding, cool-tempered...All the qualities basically required to take care of a woman :D
• Humility and simplicity, qualities that I personally adore. No overtaking desire to have the best of the best, flash car, latest phones. Even if you can afford it I prefer somebody grounded, somebody easygoing who doesn’t give money too much priority.
• Somebody appreciative of his wife’s efforts around the house but able to do the simple things himself if need be, e.g. wash a plate.
• And last but not least, a man who does his utmost to ensure that he marries a woman who knows her husband’s rights upon her as much as she demands her rights off of him :D :p

Note how Deen hasn’t come into yet, that requires a section of its own.

[Periwinkle18]

good sincere advise but I think the sis just meant someone will help rather then make it difficult (IE a hubby who is a dayyuf ie has no jelousy towards his wife - will destroy a marriage)

its good to want a partner who will make practising islam easier.

exactly jazakAllah khayr akhi :)

Moreover, Allah did not make us incomplete so that we need help from others to become good. Find the spark within, make yourself good with sweat, blood and everything will be yours.

hmm i like this part jazakAllah, buh everyones not perfect i guess sometimes u do need help frm others cuz sometimes ppl r good at things u arnt n u cn learn alot frm them.

[Alpha Dude]

Vomit isn't the punch line ya عبد الله this thread idealizes the institution to a cartoonish like state.
When my uncle lay dying his wife of 20+ years and three kids didn't want to go to his room because they thought he was contagious- It's an interesting contrast IMHO anyway love exists in the small everyday details not in the nice gestures when the times are good!

:w:

Good post and good anecdote.

[Alpha Dude]

I suppose in light of the above, one question could be 'would you suck the vomit out of my mouth to ensure my survival, if it came down to it?'.

You can guage a person's true character.

[Muezzin]

If you cannot keep yourself happy, you cannot keep anyone else happy. Personal happiness comes before others'. As simple as that.

A good husband and father is happy when his wife and children are happy*. That will and ability to provide, that responsibility, is what makes a man.

*Note: 'happy' does not mean 'spoilt'. More like 'content' or 'stable'

[جوري]

I suppose in light of the above, one question could be 'would you suck the vomit out of my mouth to ensure my survival, if it came down to it?'.

You can guage a person's true character.

I wouldn't chisel that on a stone tablet but it sounds reasonable at this hour...:) I always loved that line.
One time as a med student I saw this guy ask the doctor if his wife will lose bladder and bowel function because he 'wasn't dealing with none of that' that he'd check her into a home- she had the saddest look on her face. Their son was there too - 'twas both humiliating for her and sad but in his defense he looked like he needed help getting up from a chair himself!

P.s I asked a potential that once in light of that story and he said he would except I watered it down a little not to totally gross him out- he seemed genuine & thoughtful when he replied - there are a few good guys out there!

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I was joking btw.

But even if someone wanted that, I do not see much wrong with it. Some people are not good at loving nor do they want to be loved. They just want some biological needs met in a way prescribed by God. What do you say about them? Dont say fasting.

I don't see it as wrong either per se- people want different things. But I'm just curious cuz Ive never heard of a woman like that.

As for those who want some bio needs met rightfully - no idea. I'm sure everyone deep down really just wants to be loved. It's a human need, even if it's not masked or deep down.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Hmm Duno if we're allowed to I mite ask wht they're dng for Allah n wht they like n dislike. N how they came closer to Allah. Well I guess u get to knw a person once u start living with them.

I would just want someone who would help me b a good muslimah.

^Yup - same thing but for guys. Both help each other grow and become better people - religiously/socially/etc - by challenging each other to improve for each other.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

In reply to a previous post

I don’t know how you’d find these things out by meeting only once or twice and most people probably never will until they get married but that’s the beauty of it:

• A real man, your protector, somebody you feel safe with, but at the same time gentle enough to appreciate a woman’s sensitive nature and not brand her too ‘emotionally needy’

I have a feeling the 'emotionally needy' is passively directed at me since I used the same words earlier - but to clarify - most of my points in that post were examples of characteristics in their extremity - in moderation, they're great. So having emotional needs is fine and even cute and both sides have them - but it's a problem and very draining on a man when a girl has emotional issues - like always creating drama, always turning small issues and into full scale problems etc.

Note how Deen hasn’t come into yet, that requires a section of its own.

Can you elaborate on that as well?

In my list I kept 'focus on Islam' second but i left 'student of knowledge' last because i felt the former is important and the latter isnt in terms of a marriage. What would you say for the other way around, ie for men?

[Cabdullahi]

would you suck the vomit out of my mouth.

No!



...

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I was joking btw.

They just want some biological needs met in a way prescribed by God. What do you say about them? Dont say fasting.

I think they should get married as that's the only way and work to love their wives. i) it's a struggle in essence like any other for some people, like lowering the gaze ii) women will appreciate the fact that you're trying to love her and be awesome to her WAY more than your results. men tend to focus on results but for women, it's all about emotion and the thought that makes them feel special and loved.

Case in point, look at the differences in my post and Flawed's post about what men look for in marriage vs women. You'll notice that her points are overwhelming leaning towards emotional needs and mine as a guy are more physical and goal oriented - and less about how they make me 'feel'. Nothing wrong with either because they complement each other.

Flawed's post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/family-society/134275141-what-would-you-ask-potential-partner-11.html#post1548487
Mine:
http://www.islamicboard.com/family-s...ml#post1547700

It's interesting because going back to the absolute basics - it's a circle. A guy helps a girl fulfill her emotional needs (her main goal), she responds by helping him fulfill his physical needs (his main goal). He likes that, so he goes and fulfills her emotional needs some more to have his physical needs filled. It's a win/win situation.

It's kind of simplistic putting it that way - there are a lot of other factors involved, but I think that does sum it up.

[CosmicPathos]

anyone can buy flowers and chocolate box ... I really dont see it as a sign of "love." And I've said, who knows what love is. It is all about needs. Men's biological needs and that of having some close friend in life, and women's emotional needs as well as biological which enforce her emotional needs. If the paragon of love, the so called "motherly love," is okay with aborting fetuses and own babies, I've lost faith that anything called "love" exists, except that to one's Lord. Even in that love we are not sure if our Lord loves us back or not. (I digress).

When s*** hits the fan, only then the true character comes out.

If you deep inside keep on trying to make your wife "pleased," she never will be. If you become too dependent on her approval, she might even start looking elsewhere. Sure, listening to her twice a week and saying some romanchic words here and that would keep her around, but dont make it your goal of life. Such guys comes across as sissy and wife-pets. And in the end if she leaves, it is YOU who will get hurt. Same applies to sisters as well. We have to be very cautious of where we lower our guards.

[CosmicPathos]

That will and ability to provide, that responsibility, is what makes a man.

We are in 21st century and we still do not know what makes a man. I disagree with your limited definition of a "man." What you are saying is that the man who does not want to provide and hence does not get married, is not really a man. How ridiculous! Some men are destined by Allah to not get married, who are you to call them any less of being "men."

The will and ability to provide, that makes him appear as a "real man" to a woman, but not to reality. Everyone has different perceptions based on what they need. Of course a woman only produces one precious egg every month, she wants to make sure the person who fertilizes it is going to value it. It is opposite with the male, who produces wasteful number of sperms, so it is natural for men to have babies and move on with life and not pay as much attention to them as the mother does.

[Muezzin]

We are in 21st century and we still do not know what makes a man. I disagree with your limited definition of a "man." What you are saying is that the man who does not want to provide and hence does not get married, is not really a man.How ridiculous! Some men are destined by Allah to not get married, who are you to call them any less of being "men."

That's a strawman argument because you're putting words into my mouth, yet I can see where you're coming from. You agree that men are traditionally 'hunter-gatherers', correct? Does it not follow that (generally speaking) a mature human male's impulse is to provide for his loved ones?

The will and ability to provide, that makes him appear as a "real man" to a woman, but not to reality.

Reality is irrelevant when discussing love for one's family, for better or worse.

Everyone has different perceptions based on what they need. Of course a woman only produces one precious egg every month, she wants to make sure the person who fertilizes it is going to value it. It is opposite with the male, who produces wasteful number of sperms, so it is natural for men to have babies and move on with life and not pay as much attention to them as the mother does.

A good father cares for his family. That's all.

[CosmicPathos]

A good father cares for his family. That's all.

That's what the people who are needy and will want to be cared for will want to define a "good father" as. Hardly a universal rule one should stick to in order to be "good."

That's a strawman argument because you're putting words into my mouth, yet I can see where you're coming from. You agree that men are traditionally 'hunter-gatherers', correct? Does it not follow that (generally speaking) a mature human male's impulse is to provide for his loved ones?

Not a strawman. It followed from your argument, did not it. If the ability to gives makes one a real men, then the opposite must be true? The one who does not give must not be a real man. Correct me if it does not logically follow your argument.

Hunterer-gatherer role was to hunt and feed himself, then his family, and then his tribe/clan. But those who did not hunt, were they less of men? They broke off from the tradition, and I think that is a good thing, to rebel against traditions requires bravery and lunacy.

[Muezzin]

That's what the people who want to be cared will want to define a "good father" as.

What is your definiton of a good father?

Not a strawman. It followed from your argument, did not it. If the ability to gives makes one a real men, then the opposite must be true? The one who does not give must not be a real man. Correct me if it does not logically follow your argument.

I see. I should have phrased it more accurately. A good father and husband must be responsibile and provide for his family, and put their needs above his own (from my personal point of view). It's a lot like how I view a good leader come to think of it.

Hunterer-gatherer role was to hunt and feed himself, then his family, and then his tribe/clan. But those who did not hunt, were they less of men?

Those that did not hunt must have done something to justify having a mate and offspring. Those that did not hunt surely cared and provided for the same?

[Endymion]

Interesting thread.But im thinking if asking questions can give you the right idea of the person :hmm:

[CosmicPathos]

Those that did not hunt must have done something to justify having a mate and offspring.

Not necessarily. I guess just the process of mating justifies having a mate. Perhaps at least in those olden times?

['Abd-al Latif]

Phones and gym = luxury? Now I've heard everything. :heated:

[CosmicPathos]

What is your definiton of a good father?

I dont have one. Good and bad is subjective to circumstances.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

honestly guys its whats inside that matters most and no amount of questions can let us see that.


thats why recomendations and istikhara is so important.

[Cabdullahi]

those who didn't hunt were laughed at by all the fertile women.

[CosmicPathos]

those who didn't hunt were laughed at by all the fertile women.

haha. You are true to some extent. The alpha male who got to mate with different fertile women did need to have some presence and reputation in society as a brave/awesome man so the women could know such a man exists.

and think about it, we could be progeny of one such alpha male from 50,000 years ago who impregnated one such woman. Scary eh.

[Muezzin]

That's what the people who are needy and will want to be cared for will want to define a "good father" as.

So a man who cares for his family is 'needy and will want to be cared for', and by implication is therefore somehow lacking in masculinity. Um, okay. I'm guessing I've misunderstood your point.

Hardly a universal rule one should stick to in order to be "good."

Not caring for family = also 'good'?

I really don't follow.

I dont have one. Good and bad is subjective to circumstances.

Okay. What's a 'model' father for you, then? How would you prefer people act towards their spouse and offspring? I'm just trying to get an idea here.

Not necessarily. I guess just the process of mating justifies having a mate. Perhaps at least in those olden times?

For good or bad, times appear to have changed.

and think about it, we could be progeny of one such alpha male from 50,000 years ago who impregnated one such woman. Scary eh.

Though on the bright side, we may have inherited some of those 'alpha male' (hate that term, it tends to be used to justify butthead behaviour) genes. You too could slay a mammoth!

[CosmicPathos]

For good or bad, times appear to have changed.

Sure. But the underlying genes, desires, needs, remain the same. I dont believe in time-dependent acts.

Okay. What's a 'model' father for you, then? How would you prefer people act towards their spouse and offspring? I'm just trying to get an idea here.

Why do we need to have a "model" father? Cant we just have a father and that's it? Is not just having/knowing someone from whom we came forth enough?

[Muezzin]

Sure. But the underlying genes, desires, needs, remain the same. I dont believe in time-dependent acts.

Do you believe in the institution of marriage?

Why do we need to have a "model" father? Cant we just have a father and that's it? Is not just having/knowing someone from whom we came forth enough?

In a word, no. That's not enough. Children need father figures to look up to, not just as a progenitor but as a role model. It's crucial for their development. Children from broken homes tend to seek surrogate fathers out for this reason.

[CosmicPathos]

Do you believe in the institution of marriage?

Islamically, I do and I wish institution of marriage was strong and pure. Realistically, I am not sure if institution of marriage is needed at all. Majority of humans seem to get whatever they need without it. Men have always kept "mistresses" aside their marriage. Women have always kept lovers outside of marriage. All since time immemorial.

In a word, no. That's not enough. Children need father figures to look up to, not just as a progenitor but as a role model. It's crucial for their development. Children from broken homes tend to seek surrogate fathers out for this reason.

Prophet pbuh grew up without a father. And we believe him to be a role model. So I do not know how valid your statement is.

[White Rose]

Why do we need to have a "model" father? Cant we just have a father and that's it? Is not just having/knowing someone from whom we came forth enough?

My goodness akhi, this deeply saddens me. Why do we compare our Prophet to us people? He was guided divinely...but are we guided divinely? We need to have a good mother and a father to be a role model for us. Not everyone is born and grows up to be automatically good. We need guidance or else we can go on the wrong path.

[Muezzin]

Islamically, I do and I wish institution of marriage was strong and pure. Realistically, I am not sure if institution of marriage is needed at all. Majority of humans seem to get whatever they need without it. Men have always kept "mistresses" aside their marriage. Women have always kept lovers outside of marriage. All since time immemorial.

I see where you're coming from. However, by that logic, realistically, we don't need laws either, because people will always steal and murder. It doesn't mean everyone will always break those laws, nor does it mean we give up hope in justice and stop seeking it.

Prophet pbuh grew up without a father. And we believe him to be a role model. So I do not know how valid your statement is.

The father of the Prophet pbuh passed away. The Prophet pbuh himself is a role model as a father.

Neither of the above was a deadbeat dad who sowed his oats and got the heck out of there. The deadbeat dad is the kind of father I would never wish on anyone, and which I think is an objective example of 'bad' parenting.

[Cabdullahi]

Islamically, I do and I wish institution of marriage was strong and pure. Realistically, I am not sure if institution of marriage is needed at all. Majority of humans seem to get whatever they need without it. Men have always kept "mistresses" aside their marriage. Women have always kept lovers outside of marriage. All since time immemorial.

Don't worry about her having a lover on the side, what you can do is make sure that you stay pure, do your job according to Qur'an and sunnah, worry about you and don't let the Coolidge effect get the better of you.

[CosmicPathos]

Neither of the above was a deadbeat dad who sowed his oats and got the heck out of there. The deadbeat dad is the kind of father I would never wish on anyone, and which I think is an objective example of 'bad' parenting.

I think the same way as you do about such mothers or fathers. But reality is always opposite to what we wish or hope for.

[CosmicPathos]

Don't worry about her having a lover on the side, what you can do is make sure that you stay pure, do your job according to Qur'an and sunnah, worry about you and don't let the Coolidge effect get the better of you.

Lol, I am not worried. I am just penning down my observation.

But yes, you are right about that, one should only do everything for God, not for someone else. If someone is wronged, God will avenge for him/her in dunya or aakhira.

[Muezzin]

I think the same way as you do about such fathers. But reality is always opposite to what we wish or hope for.

I'm sure nobody posting here would be that kind of father. I'm sure everybody posting here would do their best to provide for their families and to ensure that they are loved.

[Hulk]

I would ask her.

"Can you keep private matters off of social media sites like Twitter and Facebook?"

I can imagine having wife who would sulk and if I ask her what's wrong she says "nothing" then I log into facebook/twitter and read something like "Is it so hard for people to keep their workdesk neat and tidy?"

I might ask her to delete twitter but I think facebook is a good tool to keep in touch with friends and events.

[جوري]

course a woman only produces one precious egg every month, she wants to make sure the person who fertilizes it is going to value it

Technically she produces thousands every month of which only one makes it, considering the limited supply and all the psychological and physiological effects this has one her, heck to the yes he'd better value it. Hopefully you'll meet someone who will soften rather than sour you on women I don't think you've a favorable view of us at all.

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

Technically she produces thousands every month of which only one makes it, considering the limited supply and all the psychological and physiological effects this has one her, heck to the yes he'd better value it. Hopefully you'll meet someone who will soften rather than sour you on women I don't think you've a favorable view of us at all.

:w:

Sometimes even 2 eggs ovulate at the same time. I was talking about what mostly happens.

For the bold part, you said once our experiences shape how we view things and I agreed with you.

w salam

[GuestFellow]

Phones and gym = luxury? Now I've heard everything. :heated:

I doubt it. :/

Since the financial crisis, many households have been spending less and less. If you have worked in a debt related jobs, you will realise many people struggle to afford these items or services.

[جوري]

For the bold part, you said once our experiences shape how we view things and I agreed with you.

w salam

So you were married before?

[CosmicPathos]

So you were married before?

No.

wsalam

[جوري]

No.

wsalam

Then take it easy in shaa Allah, may Allah swt rectify your affairs.

:w:

[Hulk]

Can't wait to do this

[جوري]

Do what I hazard ask? :skeleton:

[GuestFellow]

Do what I hazard ask? :skeleton:

Let's not encourage him. O_____o

[جوري]

Ahh-- point taken!

[Hulk]

Do what I hazard ask?

Start a family of course!:statisfie
I love kids, they grow up so fast!

[Musaafirah]

In reference to some previous posts, even with bad experiences, one should always live with hope for the future insha'allah and we should never ever let past experiences cloud our future. It would make us all bitter people and you really don't want that to affect your future relationships..
Regardless, once you've established that the potential is what you may be looking for and you feel you can't question the person too much in the meeting.
How do you deal with that situation?
Especially if you don't do the whole twitter/facebook thing and you don't want to question through email ..
This is for when you just feel you can't say anything to the person..Having a mental block or something..

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I worry about my generation and the generation after me.

If we on this forum can agree that our generation is worse then the generation before us, and the generation before us is worse then the one that preceeded them then surely it should be enough to believe in Qadr and do what was done by the pious before us.

If we cant do this then we should cross examine our soul, our nafs, and our imaan and see if there is a fault which will allow the shaytan and this dunya to take over.

may Allah protect us from a marriage which has been touched by shaytan or tainted by the corruption of our nafs.

[Periwinkle18]

^Ameen

[Hiraislam]

I would ask how you will remain with my parents after marriage?

[piXie]

Do you know wat a belan is? :D

[Periwinkle18]

Do you know wat a belan is?

i do ;D