Assisted suicide

[glo]

I beleive tonight a TV programme showed "ground-breaking footage of a British resident dying at a Swiss euthanasia clinic".
This has led to much debate and controversy.

Although suicide is no longer a crime in England and Wales, aiding and abetting suicide is a criminal offence punishable by up to 14 years in prison.
This forces people, who are terminally ill and in fear of dying painfully, but who are unable due to physical disability to take their own lives to go to Switzerland - the only country where it is legal to assist non-residents in taking their own lives.

Many faith groups are amongst those who speak out against assisted suicide.
I too, believe that life is God-given and should not be taken by anybody.
However, having read some of the accounts I wonder how easy I would find it to stand by and watch a loved one die slowly and painfully, and to deny their wish to shorten their lives and their suffering ... :cry:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5319381.ece
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...e-1060055.html

[Keltoi]

It's a difficult question for sure. It's easy for someone in good health to state that ending one's life due to suffering is wrong.

Personally, I'm sort of back and forth on this issue. I can see the point of view on both sides. The Christian in me says that ending life, no matter what the justification, is a sinful act. On that basis I would have to agree with those who are opposed to assisted suicide. That being said, I do have empathy and compassion for those who are suffering unspeakable pain and just want it to end. It is a very difficult moral and ethical question.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Euthanasia is haram under Islamic rulings. The beeb has got some info on the matter: click meh

...However, having read some of the accounts I wonder how easy I would find it to stand by and watch a loved one die slowly and painfully, and to deny their wish to shorten their lives and their suffering ...

I know what you mean, I'd feel very, very uncomfortable in that situation and wouldn't want it wished on anyone. But, it is in these crucial times that faith lends a helping hand.

It is not an easy thing to do and I have no ill-fealings to anyone who agrees with euthanasia - it's completely understandable and if I weren't religious, I probably would be for it. But that's the beauty of religion - it teaches you to control your emotions even in such pscyhologically challenging tribulations.

Btw, I have not and do not intend to watch this (or any other) program showing assisted suicide.

[glo]

It's a difficult question for sure. It's easy for someone in good health to state that ending one's life due to suffering is wrong.

Personally, I'm sort of back and forth on this issue. I can see the point of view on both sides. The Christian in me says that ending life, no matter what the justification, is a sinful act. On that basis I would have to agree with those who are opposed to assisted suicide. That being said, I do have empathy and compassion for those who are suffering unspeakable pain and just want it to end. It is a very difficult moral and ethical question.

Your post discribes my own ethical struggle on this topic very well, Keltoi.

My husband, who does not follow any religion, is very clear that if he ever reached such a level of suffering, he would want to look to assisted suicide as his solution. I am his wife, and I sometimes wonder how I would deal with it ...
I pray that God never put me to the test with regards to this!

:sl:
Euthanasia is haram under Islamic rulings. The beeb has got some info on the matter: click meh

I thought it would be. Thank you for the link.

I know what you mean, I'd feel very, very uncomfortable in that situation and wouldn't want it wished on anyone. But, it is in these crucial times that faith lends a helping hand.

It is not an easy thing to do and I have no ill-fealings to anyone who agrees with euthanasia - it's completely understandable and if I weren't religious, I probably would be for it. But that's the beauty of religion - it teaches you to control your emotions even in such pscyhologically challenging tribulations.

How would you feel if the person dying was not religious him/herself?
Would you be more inclined to agree with them? Or less?

Btw, I have not and do not intend to watch this (or any other) program showing assisted suicide.

Same here. I have not watched the programme, nor do I want to ...

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[glo]

Here is the account of Michael Wenham, a man who also suffers with motor neurone disease, but who is determined not to shorten his own life.
Granted, he is not yet in the final stages, as Craig Ewert was, but here are his words anyway.

They are taken from his book 'My Donkey Body':
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...e-1061348.html

[Danah]

good question glo
I have asked this question before in another forum, and I got different results. many people there were okay with ending their life or their people life to stop there suffering, some other were valuing their life and prefer to not give up but keep trying any other solutions to save their life

I think this topic will be viewed differently from different people according to their beliefs.
for me, I think that any suffering the human being might go through whether it is minor or serious is a sign for purifying his sins before his death. Yeah, it is hard to see our beloved people suffering in front of our eyes while we are standing doing nothing to them. But at the end, who we are to decide ending the life of someone whom we did not grant life at the first place?
I think the one that grant the life is the only one who can take it, us people are responsible to protect this life and sustain it to not expose it to any danger

[aamirsaab]

...
How would you feel if the person dying was not religious him/herself?
Would you be more inclined to agree with them? Or less?...

That'd be too tough of a situation. I'd want to agree with them but my religion says not to. I would definitely be conflicted all the way through: end a loved one's suffering or continue it. And it's not something you can weigh up either - it's not a case of they live happily or they die i.e you can save them. It's a case of they live in pain for a while longer and die or they die now.

I do feel great empathy for those who are in or who have loved ones in such positions and I must repeate that I bare no ill-feelings to those who take that option - it's probably the most difficult decision anyone has to make, joint only with saving conjoined twins.

[Muezzin]

I beleive tonight a TV programme showed "ground-breaking footage of a British resident dying at a Swiss euthanasia clinic".
This has led to much debate and controversy.

And sky-high ratings, presumably.

I hadn't heard of this documentary until the news splurged it all over yesterday. But that's just me.

The controversial footage of the moment of death is most likely on YouTube for all to view.

[Yanal]

Whoa that's sad but hear this my English teacher told he a story of a man named Mark Lepine who went in a university and shot 14 women just because he was a feminist (= being a person who Denys that females can work) and so was his dad who abused him after he killed those women he commuted Sucide with a letter.
Open Question about Sucide?
Why do people write letters when some innocent can get caught because the letter can say anything for instance if my friend commits it and he hates a teacher he could blame her.

[glo]

I came across this article whilst browsing, on a website called "Care, not Killing", which promotes palliative care and opposes euthanasia and assisted suicide:

Major religions are strongly opposed to assisted dying
All major religions are strongly opposed to both euthanasia and assisted suicide. In the week before the House of Lords debate on 10 October 2005, nine major UK faith leaders (representing the six world faiths of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism) wrote an open letter to every member of the House of Lords and the House of Commons arguing strongly against any change in the law. The letter was almost entirely ignored by the media, but was referred to several times in the House of Lords debate.

http://www.carenotkilling.org.uk/

[KAding]

Personally I am very strongly in favor of each persons right to end their life gracefully and without suffering when they are terminally ill. This is something I am quite passionate about. The mere idea that when I am suffering a terrible, painful and deadly illness, an opponent to euthanasia wags his finger at me tells me I need to suffer, simply because his God tells him so. It would simply infuriate me. What angers me even more is their claim that they are doing the "right" thing, that suffering (or rather letting others suffer) is the moral thing to do. To me the only complexity in this matter here is how to deal with children and mental illnesses in combination with assisted suicide.

Like I said, I'm passionate about this subject ;).

[Whatsthepoint]

I'm a strong proponent of euthanasia.
It does bother me though that a Swiss clinic is making hundreds of thousands, probably millions, from it.

[Muezzin]

Personally I am very strongly in favor of each persons right to end their life gracefully and without suffering when they are terminally ill. This is something I am quite passionate about. The mere idea that when I am suffering a terrible, painful and deadly illness, an opponent to euthanasia wags his finger at me tells me I need to suffer, simply because his God tells him so. It would simply infuriate me. What angers me even more is their claim that they are doing the "right" thing, that suffering (or rather letting others suffer) is the moral thing to do. To me the only complexity in this matter here is how to deal with children and mental illnesses in combination with assisted suicide.

Like I said, I'm passionate about this subject ;).

What if they don't want you to suffer so much as pump you full of painkillers?

That's my somewhat pragmatic/boneheaded view on the whole thing.

I say boneheaded because I'm not sure whether painkillers are always appropriate.

[Argamemnon]

If I were an atheist I would support it.. but then, if I were an atheist, I would go kill myself now instead of posting my opinion on this and wasting time. Alhamdullilah I'm not a disbeliever.. I know that after sufering comes ease, if not in this life, definitely in the Hereafter inshaAllah...

[KAding]

What if they don't want you to suffer so much as pump you full of painkillers?

That's my somewhat pragmatic/boneheaded view on the whole thing.

I say boneheaded because I'm not sure whether painkillers are always appropriate.

I absolutely agree. If possible this should be preferred. Critical words are "if possible". But an individual should always have the choice, based on personal preference and effectiveness of either treatment.

In general my position would be as follows: Don't want to use euthanasia? Fine, then don't. But don't force others to go through unbearable suffering to please your sensitivities, religious or otherwise.

[Faith.]

I read about this in the newspaper...and I literally had tears in my eyes
It's so sad how some people nowadays think commiting suicide is going to solve all their problems.

[Leyla73]

My mom told me about it, and she says she felt soo bad while she was watching it, especailly the end when he drinks the poison or something... Omg...
it's true, that you should not decide whether you die or not, Allah should decide when he wants you to leave this world. But from another side, i feel soo sorry for the people who live thanks to a MACHINE that makes them breath and know that without they'd just die...

So actually, from one side, they were meant to die, if not that machine that makes them live. So in this case, we can say that Allah wanted to take this person, but some people didn't let it happen...

Reeeally confusing anyways

[aamirsaab]

...
In general my position would be as follows: Don't want to use euthanasia? Fine, then don't. But don't force others to go through unbearable suffering to please your sensitivities, religious or otherwise.

It's not always as easy and as simple as that. To assist in a loved one's suicide is not something that can be done on a whim - it affects everyone. Think about it, not everyone wants to or can hold that much responsibility for someone's death - a loved one no less.

And I've said in previous posts, the situation is this:

A) Letting them live in pain for a little while longer and then die naturally
B) Pulling the plug (so to speak), so they die now.

So, the decision for taking away life is in that situation not easy. You aren't holding a gun to the person who has raped your wife and slaughtered your children. You are ''pulling the plug'' on your wife or children.
The decision either way is not always simple.

As far as religion goes, there are two main reasons why euthanasia isn't allowed:
1) For the hereafter - we believe they are suffering now so that they won't have to suffer in the afterlife (islamically speaking anyway).
2) For the family members/friends to have as much time with that person as possible - those last moments are precious for everyone involved.

[Whatsthepoint]

2) For the family members/friends to have as much time with that person as possible - those last moments are precious for everyone involved.

That depends on the disease. Those last moments can be extremely distressful.

[Amadeus85]

I absolutely agree. If possible this should be preferred. Critical words are "if possible". But an individual should always have the choice, based on personal preference and effectiveness of either treatment.

In general my position would be as follows: Don't want to use euthanasia? Fine, then don't. But don't force others to go through unbearable suffering to please your sensitivities, religious or otherwise.

KAding, is it true that in Your country parents can tell the doctors to murder a very ill born child? Im not sure about it, I just heard about it.

[Whatsthepoint]

KAding, is it true that in Your country parents can tell the doctors to murder a very ill born child? Im not sure about it, I just heard about it.

Me too, I think it's called the Grooningen protocol.

[aamirsaab]

That depends on the disease. Those last moments can be extremely distressful.

Indeed they can be, which is why I can understand why people are for euthanasia. In any case I was merely pointing out one of the reasons why Islam is against it as it provides you with some last moments, which I personally feel is very respectful.

I guess it is different for every person though.

[KAding]

KAding, is it true that in Your country parents can tell the doctors to murder a very ill born child? Im not sure about it, I just heard about it.

Officially this isn't allowed, as euthanasia for anyone below 12 is illegal whatever the circumstances. I think, however, that there are unwritten agreements that in these circumstances criminal charges will not be bought.

This is definitely a complex issue though. Is it really the moral thing to do to let a baby, which has just a short time to live in agony, to let it suffer? With animals we have the decency to put it out of its misery, but apparently we don't extend that courtesy to human beings. Note, however, that I am not perse supporting this practice. I'm torn on this issue.

The issue at hand in this thread, however, is euthanasia for adults who are fully capable to make this decision about their own life.

[KAding]

It's not always as easy and as simple as that. To assist in a loved one's suicide is not something that can be done on a whim - it affects everyone. Think about it, not everyone wants to or can hold that much responsibility for someone's death - a loved one no less.

And I've said in previous posts, the situation is this:

A) Letting them live in pain for a little while longer and then die naturally
B) Pulling the plug (so to speak), so they die now.

So, the decision for taking away life is in that situation not easy. You aren't holding a gun to the person who has raped your wife and slaughtered your children. You are ''pulling the plug'' on your wife or children.
The decision either way is not always simple.

There is nothing here I disagree with. If palliative care is a viable option then surely it must be pursued. But when it isn't, the option should be there for any clear-minded, sane and terminally ill adult to make the choice to end their life the way he or she prefers it.

[glo]

Essentially this debate isn't about whether suicide is good or bad.
How we feel about that may depend on our faith, our life experiences and other influences.

Fact is, we all have a choice whether we want to continue living or take our lives.
Many people have suicidal thoughts at some point in their lives, most do not act upon them.

The point of this debate is that those with debilitating, wasting and terminal diseases (those who arguably may have most reason to wish to end their lives) are physically unable to take their lives. They are denied that choice.
The only way they can end their lives is with at least a certain amount of help from others.

With 'assisted suicide' the person in question still has to be able to carry out the act themselves (i.e. drink the poison, switch off the machine)
Actively killing another person, even at their request (i.e. injecting poison, smothering etc) is considered 'euthanasia'.
Legally there is a difference.

[KAding]

With 'assisted suicide' the person in question still has to be able to carry out the act themselves (i.e. drink the poison, switch off the machine)
Actively killing another person, even at their request (i.e. injecting poison, smothering etc) is considered 'euthanasia'.
Legally there is a difference.

Interesting, I did not know that. I always assumed that in English they were just synonyms.

Of course the whole point of euthanasia legislation is to allow a doctor to perform the act, so that it happens smoothly and without a glitch. While the doctor gives the lethal injection, it is with the consent of the patient. The decesion and timing of the death is at the initiative of the patient, so I think calling it "suicide" is a lot more appropriate than calling it "murder" or "manslaughter".