Shoe thrower’s story

[islamirama]

Iraq cheers reporter for Bush shoe attack


Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWt3-...layer_embedded

Citizens in Baghdad have ennobled a frogmarched Iraqi reporter for throwing his shoes at lame duck US President George W. Bush.

Iraqi reporter Muntadhar al-Zaidi shocked the world on Sunday by hurling his shoes at the visiting US president, who had come to the war-torn country to say farewell.

Sitting in the third row at a press conference attended by Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, the reporter ‘jumped up’ and shouted “It is the farewell kiss, you dog.”

He then threw his shoes one after the other toward Bush, who was reportedly not hurt. Bush ducked and the first shoe hit the American and Iraqi flags behind the two leaders, while Maliki tried to block the second shoe as it flew toward Bush.

Iraqi security staff ‘frogmarched’ the journalist out.

Iraqi television responded by demanding the immediate release of the al-Baghdadia correspondent and called on authorities to respect the right of the detained in exercising “freedom of expression”.

“Al-Baghdadia television demands that the Iraqi authorities immediately release their stringer Muntadhar al-Zaidi, in line with the democracy and freedom of expression that the American authorities promised the Iraqi people,” reads a statement released by the station.

Baghdad citizens also voiced approval over the stunning act and raked the police over the coals for the arrest.

In Iraqi culture, throwing shoes at someone is a sign of contempt. Iraqis bashed the statue of Saddam with their shoes after US marines toppled it to the ground following the devastating 2003 invasion.

A study conducted by ORB — a well-known British polling agency which has been tracking public opinion in Iraq since 2005 — estimated in September 2007 that 1.2 million Iraqis had been killed in violence-related incidents following the March 2003 invasion of the country.

This is while Human Rights Watch estimates put the number of those killed during a period of twenty years of the reign of deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein at 250,000 to 290,000.

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/1...h-shoe-attack/

[Whatsthepoint]

A study conducted by ORB — a well-known British polling agency which has been tracking public opinion in Iraq since 2005 — estimated in September 2007 that 1.2 million Iraqis had been killed in violence-related incidents following the March 2003 invasion of the country.

That's a high estimate.

[Grace Seeker]

“Al-Baghdadia television demands that the Iraqi authorities immediately release their stringer Muntadhar al-Zaidi, in line with the democracy and freedom of expression that the American authorities promised the Iraqi people,” reads a statement released by the station.

Well, the Amercian version of freedom of expression limits that to peaceful protest, not throwing things at people. Such an act is called an assault, and is a chargable crime, even when no one is actually injured. Of course charges aren't always filed if no one is hurt and the parties agree to go their own seperate ways. But in the case of a person attacking the president (be it a sitting president or former president), such charges are never dismissed.

Now that is in the USA. I suppose we will now see how Iraqi jurisprudence interprets its laws.

In Iraqi culture, throwing shoes at someone is a sign of contempt. Iraqis bashed the statue of Saddam with their shoes after US marines toppled it to the ground following the devastating 2003 invasion.

Makes one wonder what would have happened to someone throwing shoes at Saddam Hussein? You don't have to respond to that question. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, and I don't think it would have included being "frogmarched" out of the room.

[Yanal]

:sl: yes I think we know that now Legendary Story , we also have a video posted by JUNIOUR I think.

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[islamirama]

That's a high estimate.

that's a factless opinion.

[deelaws]

I think the reason why the guy threw the show at bush was to humiliate him, not to kill him. Bush deserved it.

[Whatsthepoint]

that's a factless opinion.

It's not entirely factless. 1,2 million casualties in 4 years is 810 violence related deaths per day. That's a lot, usually days with 150 deaths get banners like the bloodiest day since this and that.
1,2 million people may have died overall, not just in violence-related incidents.

[islamirama]

It's not entirely factless. 1,2 million casualties in 4 years is 810 violence related deaths per day. That's a lot, usually days with 150 deaths get banners like the bloodiest day since this and that.
1,2 million people may have died overall, not just in violence-related incidents.

well your math vs actual reality, hmmm :rollseyes

[Muezzin]

Right, shoes, chaps?

[Whatsthepoint]

well your math vs actual reality, hmmm :rollseyes

Could be the other way around, you vs reality.
I guess will never know..

[-S-]

this is even more crazy!
Egyptian offers daughter to Iraqi shoe-thrower
An Egyptian man said Wednesday he was offering his 20-year-old daughter in marriage to Iraqi journalist Muntazer al-Zaidi, who threw his shoes at U.S. President George W. Bush in Baghdad Sunday,

The daughter, Amal Saad Gumaa, said she agreed with the idea. "This is something that would honour me. I would like to live in Iraq, especially if I were attached to this hero," she told Reuters by telephone.

Her father, Saad Gumaa, said he had called Dergham, Zaidi's brother, to tell him of the offer. "I find nothing more valuable than my daughter to offer to him, and I am prepared to provide her with everything needed for marriage," he added.

Zaidi's gesture has struck a chord across the Arab world, where President Bush is widely despised for invading Iraq in 2003 and for his support for Israel.

Amal is a student in the media faculty at Minya University in central Egypt.

Zaidi's response to the proposal was not immediately clear.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081217/...sh_bride_odd_1

[mustafaisb]

:sl: This is maybe be slightly off topic, but for the select few here who've called the Iraqi man's actions ignobe should take some time off to read this. http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/ Read the Dec 17-08 entry Prostitution vs. war crimes: The real moral offense :w:

[K.Venugopal]

That a shoe thrower should become a hero of the Islamic world indicates the paucity of true heroes.

[north_malaysian]

you can throw shoes via superpoke application on facebook now... it's very popular...:D

i think that guy got the status as a hero... all over the Muslim/Arab world.

[islamirama]

Shoe-thrower inspires Bush-bashing Web game

DUBAI (Reuters) – A shoe-throwing incident at an Iraqi news conference with George W. Bush has inspired an Internet game where the player hurls footwear at a moving target of the U.S. president.

The game, which has been circulated by email, gives players 30 seconds to try to hit Bush with a brown shoe as many times as possible, with the score appearing in the top left hand corner of the screen.

Players are greeted with the command: "OBJECTIVE: Hit President Bush in the face with your shoes! Do it!"

On-target shots are met with a message of congratulations: "Shoes have successfully hit President Bush in his face. Well done!"

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki can be seen peeping over a lectern next to Bush in the mock-up of the now-infamous joint news briefing Sunday when an Iraqi journalist hurled his shoes at the president who ordered the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Television reporter Muntazer al-Zaidi became an instant sensation in the Arab world, where throwing shoes at someone is considered to be the ultimate insult.

Zaidi, who admitted his action in court Tuesday, remains in custody pending an investigation by the judge. He could be sent for trial under a clause in Iraq's penal code that punishes anyone who tries to murder Iraqi or foreign presidents.

Zaidi's family says he harbored deep anger against Bush, blaming him for the tens of thousands of Iraqis who died after the U.S.-led invasion unleashed a wave of sectarian and insurgent violence that has only now begun to die down.

Many ordinary Arabs opposed the U.S.-led invasion and blame Bush for the violence that followed.

The game appears on the site www.sockandawe.com -- a pun on "shock and awe," the term used by U.S. military officials to describe the initial air assault on Baghdad in 2003.

In the game, Bush turns purple and his face takes on a flummoxed look when the shoe strikes the target.

(Writing by Lin Noueihed, editing by Mark Trevelyan)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081217/od_nm/us_bush_game_odd_1

[north_malaysian]

thanks for the link islamirama..

managed to get 6 points...

Country

1.United States
2.France
3.Australia
4.United Arab Emirates
5.Saudi Arabia
6.Turkey
7.Egypt
8.United Kingdom
9.Germany
10.Pakistan
11.Lebanon
12.Belgium
13.Poland
14.Jordan
15.Morocco
16.Canada
17.Netherlands
18.Kuwait
19.Switzerland
20.Japan
21.India
22.Spain
23.Tunisia
24.Italy
25.Venezuela

updated every 15 mins

[Tony]

That's a high estimate.

then what ? 1 person is too many

[Tony]

utmost respect to the shoe thrower, Bush needs a shoeing, preferably while someone is still wearing them. He is a mass murderer and should be held to account

[north_malaysian]

what's so harmful with throwing shoes,,, it just like throwing rotten tomatoes or eggs

p/s: I've scored 11 points in that Bush-shoeing game... my friend got 16 points

[Snowflake]

The guys is a hero for lobbing his shoes at Bush. He actually did what many just felt like doing. :bravo:

[nocturnal]

Those shoes missing Bush are about as close as anyone is ever likely to get to holding him accountable for his crimes. Bush should be indicted in the ICC along with the leadership of Israel just as Richard Falk suggested for perpetrating crimes against humanity and gross violation of international law and human rights.

He likes to berate the likes of Mugabe, Castro, Chavez, when he himself is the biggest threat to international peace and stability.

[Whatsthepoint]

then what ? 1 person is too many

I beg your pardon?

[Follower]

I'm not sure how accurate this site is:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Civilian deaths at Includes both roadside bomb killings by radical Islamists and result of US bombing killings.

89,892 – 98,151

[Follower]

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/incidents/page1

This is a very sad page actually listing names and incidents- makes it much more personnal.

[Whatsthepoint]

I'm not sure how accurate this site is:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Civilian deaths at Includes both roadside bomb killings by radical Islamists and result of US bombing killings.

89,892 – 98,151

Thats more like it.

[islamirama]

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/incidents/page1

This is a very sad page actually listing names and incidents- makes it much more personnal.

yea i'm gona believe that! 7 years of murdering and only that much?

I highly doubt the accuracy of your site....

Iraqi toll lowballed by tens of thousands

The number of Iraqis killed, however, is much harder to pin down, and that uncertainty is perhaps reflected in Americans’ tendency to lowball the Iraqi death toll by tens of thousands.

Iraqi civilian deaths are estimated at more than 54,000 and could be much higher; some unofficial estimates range into the hundreds of thousands. The U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq reports more than 34,000 deaths in 2006 alone.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17310383/

The number is shocking and sobering.

It is at least 10 times greater than most estimates cited in the US media, yet it is based on a scientific study of violent Iraqi deaths caused by the U.S.-led invasion of March 2003.

The estimate that over a million Iraqis have died received independent confirmation from a prestigious British polling agency in September 2007. Opinion Research Business estimated that 1.2 million Iraqis have been killed violently since the US-led invasion.


This devastating human toll demands greater recognition. It eclipses the Rwandan genocide and our leaders are directly responsible. Little wonder they do not publicly cite it

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html

[Grace Seeker]

you can throw shoes via superpoke application on facebook now... it's very popular...:D

i think that guy got the status as a hero... all over the Muslim/Arab world.

If Bush should have shoes thrown at him for what he has done, then why not Saddam Hussein before him or Osama BinLaden or the people who assassinated Benazir Bhutto or the terrorist in Mumbai?

Or, especially because so many here in this thread are upset over the tragic number of Iraqi civilians deaths in the last 5 years since the US invaded, why not those suicide bombers who have been the biggest killers of civilians in Iraq, even more than the USA has. Not trying to justify the actions of the USA, or say that I don't understand the hatred for Bush, but pointing out that many of these deaths would never have occured if those who strapped bombs to themselves would have just been true practioners of Islam to begin with.

then what ? 1 person is too many

See, I agree with this. And I'm supposing that if you really do as well, then you will want not just Bush, but ALL those who have been responsible, to be held to account.

[islamirama]

If Bush should have shoes thrown at him for what he has done, then why not Saddam Hussein before him or Osama BinLaden or the people who assassinated Benazir Bhutto or the terrorist in Mumbai?

Or, especially because so many here in this thread are upset over the tragic number of Iraqi civilians deaths in the last 5 years since the US invaded, why not those suicide bombers who have been the biggest killers of civilians in Iraq, even more than the USA has. Not trying to justify the actions of the USA, or say that I don't understand the hatred for Bush, but pointing out that many of these deaths would never have occured if those who strapped bombs to themselves would have just been true practioners of Islam to begin with.
.

So typical of westerners to justify their war criminals and always turn the topic around to blame a handful of suicide bombers. Who is doing carpet bombing? who is walking in broad day light carrying guns and breaking into houses? Who is the committing war crimes, waged an illegal war, and what not. What happend in mumbai was a terrorist attack and thats it, what is going on in Iraq is a invasion/occupation, a holocaust of iraqis by western troops. You are trying to justify it regardless of how you defending it. You can't compare a destruction of a nation and holocaust of thier people to the examples you are giving. There is a difference between a pick pocket thief and a whole organized ruthless murdering syndicate. As for your remarks...

many of these deaths would never have occured if those who strapped bombs to themselves ....

The invasion and occupation of Iraq was based on LIES of WMD, where are the WMD? I didn't hear anyone saying we are going to iraq because of suicide bombers, however did you arrive at that conclusion?

Like I said, most kuffars here always try to turn the table around and come back to a few suicide bombers and Muslims being the "terrorists" and "we wouldn't be there if they don't do this or that", face the realiy kuffars, who is committing the bigger crime here?

[Keltoi]

So typical of westerners to justify their war criminals and always turn the topic around to blame a handful of suicide bombers.

A handful? Please

Who is doing carpet bombing? who is walking in broad day light carrying guns and breaking into houses? Who is the committing war crimes, waged an illegal war, and what not. What happend in mumbai was a terrorist attack and thats it, what is going on in Iraq is a invasion/occupation, a holocaust of iraqis by western troops. You are trying to justify it regardless of how you defending it. You can't compare a destruction of a nation and holocaust of thier people to the examples you are giving. There is a difference between a pick pocket thief and a whole organized ruthless murdering syndicate.

If you can't even deal with the reality that the majority of civilian deaths in Iraq were caused by Muslims then there is no point taking anything else you say seriously.

The invasion and occupation of Iraq was based on LIES of WMD, where are the WMD? I didn't hear anyone saying we are going to iraq because of suicide bombers, however did you arrive at that conclusion?

I don't remember him saying anything about the war being about suicide bombers. He pointed out a reality, which is suicide bombers killing more civilians than the U.S. military by a large amount. The U.S. still bears responsibility for breaking down the Iraqi status quo which allowed that carnage to take place.

Like I said, most kuffars here always try to turn the table around and come back to a few suicide bombers and Muslims being the "terrorists" and "we wouldn't be there if they don't do this or that", face the realiy kuffars, who is committing the bigger crime here?

I think a suicide bomber walking into a crowded market, wedding, funeral, etc and detonating a bomb filled with nails and high explosive to be a fairly big crime. The intent is much more diabolical. That being said, it is a crime that so many civilians were killed due to this war, regardless of the culprits.

[Grace Seeker]

I don't remember him saying anything about the war being about suicide bombers. He pointed out a reality, which is suicide bombers killing more civilians than the U.S. military by a large amount. The U.S. still bears responsibility for breaking down the Iraqi status quo which allowed that carnage to take place.

Exactly. The USA is in no position to say that what it did was right. I didn't think so in 2002 as events were leading up to the war. I didn't think so in March of 2003 as it began. And I don't think so now. But I don't see how the USA's wrong doing in any way excuses the actions of the citizenry who compounded the tragedy that was already occurring as the result of a foreign invader, by beginning to target themselves. How ridiculous of an act!! And to blame the US (or anyone else) for what resident Muslims did to one another is to refuse to look in the mirror, just as you accuse the US of doing.

Throwing a shoe at the president of the country who invaded you as a statement of disgust seems a rather inocuous act compared to the self-destruction inflicted by not a handful but hundreds of Iraqis who killed hundreds of thousands of their own. These acts more than anything else, especially since you are right there were not WMDs, are what has kept the USA in Iraq for as long they have stayed.

The whole thing is a gross example of two wrongs not making a right. And for either party to claim that they are not so bad because someone else is doing wrong things as well is to show the utter depravity of mankind as whole. Even though there are precipitary events, one does not, cannot excuse the other.

[Amadeus85]

If Bush should have shoes thrown at him for what he has done, then why not Saddam Hussein before him or Osama BinLaden or the people who assassinated Benazir Bhutto or the terrorist in Mumbai?

.

Thats a good point. I wonder how many of those Bush-throwners aimed Osama ben Laden et consortes. I guess, very few.

[Tony]

I beg your pardon?

Granted

[The_Prince]

Exactly. The USA is in no position to say that what it did was right. I didn't think so in 2002 as events were leading up to the war. I didn't think so in March of 2003 as it began. And I don't think so now. But I don't see how the USA's wrong doing in any way excuses the actions of the citizenry who compounded the tragedy that was already occurring as the result of a foreign invader, by beginning to target themselves. How ridiculous of an act!! And to blame the US (or anyone else) for what resident Muslims did to one another is to refuse to look in the mirror, just as you accuse the US of doing.

Throwing a shoe at the president of the country who invaded you as a statement of disgust seems a rather inocuous act compared to the self-destruction inflicted by not a handful but hundreds of Iraqis who killed hundreds of thousands of their own. These acts more than anything else, especially since you are right there were not WMDs, are what has kept the USA in Iraq for as long they have stayed.

The whole thing is a gross example of two wrongs not making a right. And for either party to claim that they are not so bad because someone else is doing wrong things as well is to show the utter depravity of mankind as whole. Even though there are precipitary events, one does not, cannot excuse the other.

lol westerners like you just make me laugh, incase you didnt realize, it was you smart westeners who allowed all hell to break loose in Iraq, did you forget that? you went into a country, removed the goverment, army, police, and all institutions for law and order, which then leaves a massive hole for power to be filled in, and you didnt expect dozens of millitias and sects to fight and kill each other for this power grab which you caused in the first place?

you are the cause of all the chaos in Iraq, ALL OF IT, suicide bombers, roadside boms, you are the head of all this, why? because once gung ho cowboys went in, all of this was unleashed in Iraq, and this is why the Iraqi threw his shoes at Bush, not only for invading his country, but being the catalyst that led to a civil war, and full of bloodshed, so get your facts straight plz.

look at new orleans, just a few days with no law and all hell broke loose, now imagine that in a country like Iraq, with full of millitias and groups wanting power, and you dont expect inner battles and struggles? who in this blue world are you trying to kid?

now run along, enjoy your christmas, stand around the fire, sing your songs, and be happy that you and your familly are smiling and having a good time over the blood and bodies of thousands of Iraqis.

[The_Prince]

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
If Bush should have shoes thrown at him for what he has done, then why not Saddam Hussein before him or Osama BinLaden or the people who assassinated Benazir Bhutto or the terrorist in Mumbai?

are you trying to be funny? i dont know....are you referring to the same Saddam Hussein that was hanged?????? are you referring to the same mumbai attackers whom Muslims refuse to burry? are you referring to the same Bin Laden who is hiding somehwere in a cave? how in the world are Muslims going to throw shoes, let alone mangos at Osama Bin Laden when he doesnt go around making public talks infront of journalists!

as for Bhutto, who killed her? no one knows yet, so who are we going to throw our shoes at when we dont even know who killed her.

so plz stop talking nonsense.

[Grace Seeker]

are you trying to be funny? i dont know....are you referring to the same Saddam Hussein that was hanged?????? are you referring to the same mumbai attackers whom Muslims refuse to burry? are you referring to the same Bin Laden who is hiding somehwere in a cave? how in the world are Muslims going to throw shoes, let alone mangos at Osama Bin Laden when he doesnt go around making public talks infront of journalists!

as for Bhutto, who killed her? no one knows yet, so who are we going to throw our shoes at when we dont even know who killed her.

so plz stop talking nonsense.

It's not nonsense. Us westerners, as you like to make the reference, are told over and over agian about how Islam is a religion of peace. We're told that people weren't dancing in the streets over the attack on the World Trade Center, that it was celebration over a soccer match. Right! Like I believe that.:rolleyes:

But call you on your cheering on of this behavior, and you come right back to trying to put the blame someplace else. So, the question is in all seriousness. If Bush was so bad, and I'm not saying that he isn't, that it is appropriate to treat him this way. Then exactly how, in the cultural context of Iraq, should Saddam Hussein have been treated? I never saw anyone throw shoes at him, not while he was living. That someone can do it with Bush, and knows that the reprecussions will be not mean a firing squad or hanging tells me that there is indeed more freedom in Iraq than before. Now, if Bush is to blame for all of the bad, then maybe he should get credit for that little bit of good as well.

As for what I expected when we went into Iraq, actually I did expect the turmoil and chaos that followed. Indeed did you not read where I said that the USA's action precipitated what followed? As I have repeatedly said in this very thread, and posted in other forums at the time it was happening, that is one, and not the only one, of the reasons that I was always against it. But here is the thing, we in the US were horrified at the way some of the folks in New Orleans behaved. And we are similarly horrified at the way some in the White House and in Iraq have beheaved. You seem to accept, even excuse, these behaviors in Iraq.

I would say that those in New Orleans who committed those crimes were not acting like Christians, even if they claimed they were. Will you say that those in Iraq who have committed the crimes they have were not acting like Muslims? Or do you think that such behavior, murdering your own neighbors who supposedly are of the same Islamic faith as you, is justified because a foreign power has invaded and disrupted the country?

[The_Prince]

It's not nonsense. Us westerners as you like to make the reference, are told over and over agian about how Islam is a religion of peace. We're told that people weren't dancing in the streets over the attack on the World Trade Center, that it was celebration over a soccer match. Right! Like I believe that.:rolleyes:

But call you on your cheering on of this behavior, and you come right back to trying to put the blame someplace else. So, the question is in all seriousness. If Bush was so bad, and I'm not saying that he isn't, that it is appropriate to treat him this way. Then exactly how, in the culture context of Iraq, should Saddam Hussein have been treated? I never saw anyone throw shoes at him, not while he was living. That someone can do it with Bush, and knows that the reprecussions will be not mean a firing squad or hanging tells me that there is indeed more freedom in Iraq than before. Now, if Bush is to blame for all of the bad, then maybe he should get credit for that little bit of good as well.

As for what I expected when we went into Iraq, actually I did expect the turmoil and chaos that followed. Indeed did you not read where I said that the USA's action precipitated what followed. As I have repeatedly said in this very thread, and posted in other forums at the time it was happening, that is one, and not the only one, of the reasons that I was always against it. But here is the thing, we in the US were horrified at the way some of the folks in New Orleans behaved. And we are similarly horrified at the way some in the White House and in Iraq have beheaved. You seem to accept, even excuse, these behaviors in Iraq.

I would say that those in New Orleans who committed those crimes were not acting like Christians, even if they claimed they were. Will you say that those in Iraq who have committed the crimes they have were not acting like Muslims? Or do you think that such behavior, murdering your own neighbors who supposedly are of the same Islamic faith as you, is justified because a foreign power has invaded and disrupted your country?

Saddam was hanged, unlike you, you will allow Bush and all his people to get away with their crimes and war, which says it all. on top of that you label the soldiers, the murderous soldiers who are causing the carnage, as being heroes, so give us a break, we are supposed to believe you? that you are a people of a peace and love? now i must admit that thats funny, as i said, go sing ur christmas songs, thinking ur all civilized, and while u do this all, ur doing it over the blood and resources of other people.

[Grace Seeker]

Saddam was hanged, unlike you, you will allow Bush and all his people to get away with their crimes and war, which says it all. on top of that you label the soldiers, the murderous soldiers who are causing the carnage, as being heroes, so give us a break, we are supposed to believe you? that you are a people of a peace and love? now i must admit that thats funny, as i said, go sing ur christmas songs, thinking ur all civilized, and while u do this all, ur doing it over the blood and resources of other people.

And if the government of Iraq wanted, they have the legal authority to bring charges against President Bush. Thus far, they have not chosen to do so. But as for the carnage you speak of, again, much more of that has been done by civilians on civilians than all of the deaths caused by the armies of both sides combined. And those soldiers that have participated in things like murders, rape, and extortion should be tried for those crimes as well. You will find no protection given by me to individuals who commit such crimes, even should they be wearing the uniform of my own country or claim to be adherents of my faith. Are you willing to say the same thing?

[Whatsthepoint]

And if the government of Iraq wanted, they have the legal authority to bring charges against President Bush.

Saz the did.. Would you hand him over to them or protect him as your citizen?

[Follower]

LOL!! If someone had thrown a shoe at Saddam when he was alive, that person would have been killed!!

The shoe throwing is in sorts an example of the right of free speech!! It is because of the freedoms brought by the coalition.

With freedom comes responsibility! How can anyone expect the Iraqi to understand freedom and the responsibility that comes with it? They have been living under a dictator.

If the Iraqis understood they would not have stolen from and ransacked their museums that are meant for all people to enjoy.

The Iraqis really need some civic classes!!

[Keltoi]

Saz the did.. Would you hand him over to them or protect him as your citizen?

There aren't many Americans that would support or allow a foreign body to charge and convict a sitting or past president.

Having said that, if Americans were being dominated by a murderous regime and lacked the power to end that tyranny they would surely take the initiative and charge that regime when its power over them was gone. That is what occurred with Saddam, who was charged and executed by an Iraqi court of law.

[malayloveislam]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullah,

That is not the Westerners who should be blamed 100%, but we Muslim ourselves had dragged ourselves into today's current situation. This had happened since the fall of Ottomania Caliphate where Muslim Arabs had been rioting over Muslim Turks Caliphate and began emphasizing on Arab nationalism rather than Islam as the religion that brought us from different nations together. That nationalism thinking of course had been promoted by Western World for their colonialism benefit. We kill each other and quarreling too due to different sects while we should all agree that Allah is the Only One and we accept Muhammad as His last messenger.

Also Muslim Kingdoms in Andalusia, after 800 years of Golden Age Islam had contributed toward Europe, had been intoxicated in luxurious life after their forefathers had been striving to establish Muslim Community in Western Europe. Look at how the Muslim leaders co-operate with their non-Muslim Awliyaa, what had happened when we had left the teaching of Allah in avoiding non-Muslim Awliyaa?

I do not want to find faults in non-Muslim Westerners, not all of them are with bad agendas I do understand. We Muslims in Asia and Africa had experienced being colonized by Western World since 15th C. Began with Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, and English. Muslims never colonize Western World in the true meaning, not all of the Western community in Balkan had been Islamisized by Muslim Ottoman Caliphate when they entered Eastern Europe as the fact that Filipinos had been largely Christianized by Roman Catholic Spanish Conquistadors. Even Muslims in Spain had suffered Inquisition by Papal authority after Ferdinand and Isabelle had gained power even more worse than what had been experienced by Protestants if they refused to leave their motherland and their religion.

Muslims in my country who had no bloody history with Western Christians as we are previously of Hindu-Buddhism faith before peacefully accepting Islam too had experienced mal treatment in 1915 colonial period. Example, local Muslim leader who's called as Tuk Janggut had been prosecuted by British brutally just because he and other Muslim folks refused to pay non-reasonable tax imposed by British on their ancestors inherited land. Worse, British had humiliated his corpse and hanging his dead body upside down until it is rotten and being paraded everywhere in Town. There is no media to spread the news and propaganda like CNN at that time. Today international medias had been conquered by CNN and BBC. I do not support extremism but it seems like there is no fair justification.

[The_Prince]

LOL!! If someone had thrown a shoe at Saddam when he was alive, that person would have been killed!!

The shoe throwing is in sorts an example of the right of free speech!! It is because of the freedoms brought by the coalition.

With freedom comes responsibility! How can anyone expect the Iraqi to understand freedom and the responsibility that comes with it? They have been living under a dictator.

If the Iraqis understood they would not have stolen from and ransacked their museums that are meant for all people to enjoy.

The Iraqis really need some civic classes!!

who will give Iraqis civic classes? barbarians as yourself?

[Grace Seeker]

who will give Iraqis civic classes? barbarians as yourself?

Well, if the Iraqis would quite acting like they belonged to the millitias and sects you mentioned and started acting like the Muslims they claim to be, then rather than fighting and killing each other, maybe they could be the ones giving civic lessons. But here is the thing, instead of doing that, they are acting as bad or worse than the westerners you so hate. So, like malayloveislam says:

is not the Westerners who should be blamed 100%, but we Muslim ourselves had dragged ourselves into today's current situation

The difference between you and him is that because he sees it, he can also help the Ummah to get out of it. But since you pass all of the blame on to someone else, you will never be able to fix what needs to be fixed. The USA will leave, and either there will be civil war, or another despot. And of course it will again be the westerners fault. The Arabs were fighting each other in sects before Muhammad, and they are still doing it 1300 years after Muhammad. Apparently the culture of shoe throwing and power grabbing is more ingrained than Islam is.

[Malaikah]

Thats a good point. I wonder how many of those Bush-throwners aimed Osama ben Laden et consortes. I guess, very few.

Yeh, because OBL is really giving press-conferences where anyone who hates him can throw shoes at him.:rollseyes And all this time I thought he was in hiding...

[Amadeus85]

Yeh, because OBL is really giving press-conferences where anyone who hates him can throw shoes at him.:rollseyes And all this time I thought he was in hiding...

I was rather talking about that computer games that North Malaysian mentioned. :)

[YusufNoor]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

so, i want to see if i understand this correctly:

the US and it's allies do the following:

bomb the WTC buildings for the 2nd time! along with WTC #7 killing in the neighborhood of 3000 people

evidence:

http://onedollardvdproject.com/DVD-new/Order.html

or google Zeiteist II The Myth of 911 and Zeiteist IIIThe Men Behind The Curtain

9/11 Mysteries & Terror Storm or

google 9/11 Mysteries Part 1 the Demolitions

Loose Change II, TerrorStorm, 911 Eyewitnes, Road to Tyranny

or google Loose Change II and Loose Change the Final cut

David Ray Griffin: 911 and the American Empire

or just google David Ray Griffin and watch them all!

HERE, you can purchase (or just google these) for about $1 [yup ONE American dollar!]:

Loose Change: Final Cut
9/11 The Myth and Reality a Lecture by Dr. David Ray Griffin
LOOSE CHANGE 2ND EDITION
9/11: Blueprint for Truth, Architect Richard Gage dissertation on why the official story cant be true.
A lecture by Webster G. Tarpley.
September 11 Revisited: Were Explosives Used to Bring Down the Buidlings?
9/11 Mysteries

and because the 1st trade center bombing didn't work as planned the Murrah building in OK had to go:
OKC Bombing: The Forerunner to 9/11

and let's not forget that MORE people will die because the Bush administration LIED about the air quality in NYC:
Loose Change: Final Cut
and back from Ron:
Ground Zero Air Quality

i buy from both Ron and Alfons, they can be trusted to fill the orders quickly

AND THERE'S ALSO:
the fact that PNAC preplanned the Bushwars BEFORE he was [S]elected to office:
Oil Smoke and Mirrors
and this website:
http://tvnewslies.org/html/stop_igno...11___pnac.html

THERE IS DISAGREEMENT on how many Iraqi children have died as a result of sanctions BEFORE the war, but between 100,000 and 500,000 are the numbers usually cited:
http://www.cis.org.au/POLICY/winter02/polwin02-2.htm

US ATOMIC WARFARE, yes that's correct over 500,000 tones of depleted uranium have been use in Iraq/Afghanistan:

http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=17544

http://www.willthomasonline.net/will...mic_Bombs.html

WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES:
http://www.thewe.cc/weplanet/news/de...n_balkans.html

this video from Ron has 6 Iraq war docs:
Combo, Iraq War: Six Documentaries

or google:
Beyand Treason

as for the SECTARIAN VIOLENCE, ever heard of British commandos driving around dressed up like Arabs?:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/...f&d=2005-09-19
google it a tad different[British dressed as Arabs] and you get:
http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=w...ice-patrol.txt

http://www.rense.com/general67/cmndo.htm

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread171758/pg1

as for the PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER, you MUST see:

5 DVD Set "Evidence of Revision" is a 5-DVD, 8 about the Kennedy assassination, this is a must see, the most complete documentary on the Kennedy killings. [from Alfons]

or watch it here free:

http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id844.html

and watch these vids from Ron:
Combo: Election Fraud Videos

as for the BUSH FAMILY involvement, watch this:

http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id749.html

or you can order it from Ron as:
Combo: JFK & Son [Ron's copy is better than Alfons']

SO ALL THIS CRAP HAPPENS and there will be some people sitting around celebrating Winter Solstice, happy as pigs in sh*t, and they will be talking about HOW UNCIVILIZED IS THE GUY WHO THREW HIS SHOE????

SUBHANALLAH!!!!!!

you may now return to your regular programming!

:w:

[Follower]

Laughing and crying!! People actually believe in that bomb the WTC buildings theory!?! Someting so laughable coming from something so devastating!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

[unknown_JJ]

An Iraqi journalist who flung shoes at US President George W Bush will go on trial on 31 December, his brother and a judge have said.

Muntadar al-Zaidi is accused of "aggression against a foreign head of state" over the 14 December incident.

The 28-year-old, hailed as a hero by some in the Arab world, could face a jail term if convicted.

His brother says he has been abused in detention and plans to file a legal suit over his injuries.

The journalist hurled the shoes - a grave insult in the Arab world - at Mr Bush as he addressed a news conference in Baghdad, during a surprise one-day visit.

Calling the US president a "dog", he said he was acting for "widows and orphans and all those killed in Iraq".

'Sales spike'

Investigating Judge Dhiya al-Kenani told the AFP news agency that the trial date had been set for the last day of 2008.

"The investigation phase is over and the case has been transferred to the Central Criminal Court," he said.

Aggression against a head of state carries a prison term of between five and 15 years - but media reports said Mr al-Zaidi could eventually face a lesser charge of "attempted aggression".



President Bush ducks as the shoes are thrown during a news conference

The journalist's brother, Uday al-Zaidi, confirmed the court date, but made accusations against the Iraqi authorities of beating and abusing his brother.

His brother had lost a tooth and had burns on his ears, he told the Associated Press news agency after visiting him in detention on Sunday. He was planning to sue, he told the agency.

Mr Kenani rejected the allegations of abuse. The only marks on Mr al-Zaidi's face were bruises, the judge said, and they were small ones received during the arrest, he told AFP.

Mr Bush himself has sought to play down the incident. Last week his spokeswoman said he had "no hard feelings" over the matter.

But it has been gleefully seized upon by anti-Bush protesters around the world - and is reported to have boosted the business of one Turkish shoe-maker.

According to the New York Times, sales at the Istanbul-based Baydan Shoe Company have spiked after it claimed to have made the footwear hurled at Mr Bush.

Ramazan Baydan told the newspaper it was definitely his shoe, and boasted of new orders coming in from across the world.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7795428.stm

imsad

[Sahabiyaat]

oh lord...i never thought this day would come :D,just imagine the pleasure and utter europhia of smacking a shoe in george bush's face......lol. HAHA ...

[Grace Seeker]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

so, i want to see if i understand this correctly:

the US and it's allies do the following:
bomb the WTC buildings for the 2nd time! along with WTC #7 killing in the neighborhood of 3000 people


SO ALL THIS CRAP HAPPENS and there will be some people sitting around celebrating Winter Solstice, happy as pigs in sh*t, and they will be talking about HOW UNCIVILIZED IS THE GUY WHO THREW HIS SHOE????

No, you don't understand this correctly.

What I want to know is why, if he is "to be hailed as a hero in the Arab world", that others didn't stand up previously and become heros for throwing their shoes at Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden or the people who killed Benazir Bhutto or the folks who were part of the Mumbai tragedy, or those who strap bombs to themselves and then walk into supermarkets and blow themselves up taking as many of their neighbors and fellow citizens with them as possible? I suspect it is because the Arab world doesn't see these other people as being as evil (not in the way they do Bush). And then I also pause to wonder what sort of value structure one must have to think that they not evil?

[جوري]

I missed this thread.. this was good..
although admittedly I think Bush should have been stripped of his clothes, had some dogs assail his genitals with his naked pictures plastered on the web, and then hung for Christmas day as saddam was for Eid...

one should implement democracy by living the examples of its presenters after all...

I salute that Iraqi gent..

:w:

[Follower]

LOl! Skye