Christianity dying out?

[Argamemnon]

I'm interested in Christianity in different continents. Christianity is slowly dying out in Europe, I think we can all agree on this. But what about the US and other regions and continents of the world?

[Hamayun]

I have lived in England 10 years and I do not know a single Christian.... All the English people I know are Atheists and the only time they mention Christianity is to make fun of it :(

Even the Churches seem a bit deserted and the only people who seem to go there are African-British people.

It is sad!

[Whatsthepoint]

I believe it's growing in South America and Africa and I guess Hispanics contribute to the growth in the US.

[Amadeus85]

I'm interested in Christianity in different continents. Christianity is slowly dying out in Europe, I think we can all agree on this. But what about the US and other regions and continents of the world?

In Europe the ethnic europeans dont have many children, with every generation there are fewer and fewer europeans. That may bring the view that the religion of our forefathers, christianity, is disapearing as well from this continent. I dont think that religions can be judged by popularity height. You have Miley Cirus who sells best, and you also have King Crimson or Rush, who sell much worse. But the quantity of their music is clear.

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[Argamemnon]

In Europe the ethnic europeans dont have many children, with every generation there are fewer and fewer europeans.

I don't think that's the main reason. The main reason (in Europe) is that most people are atheist. In some countries the number of atheists is around 70-80% I believe. You are regarded as a weirdo if you believe in God here...

[Ashjan95]

asalaam alkum

in liverpool there are christain people that go to the church mainly sudays and i no alot of christains but half of them that used to go to the chruch hardly do anymore how sad is it.......

[Fishman]

In Europe the ethnic europeans dont have many children, with every generation there are fewer and fewer europeans. That may bring the view that the religion of our forefathers, christianity, is disapearing as well from this continent. I dont think that religions can be judged by popularity height. You have Miley Cirus who sells best, and you also have King Crimson or Rush, who sell much worse. But the quantity of their music is clear.

:sl:
'Ethnic Europeans' still hold the vast majority in Europe. Yet the vast majority of ethnic Europeans are not Christian, especially in Western Europe.
:w:

[Whatsthepoint]

:sl:
'Ethnic Europeans' still hold the vast majority in Europe. Yet the vast majority of ethnic Europeans are not Christian, especially in Western Europe.
:w:

That's the price of secularism and economic development.
It's the same in Eastern Europe, except the the most likely cause there is communism. With the exception of Poland and Croatia, most countries there have a high number of non-believers.
It's not only Christians that are affected by these factors. It's Muslims too. Countries like Albania, Bosnia, Kazakhstan etc too have a significant amount of irreligious citizens and of course, Muslims in Western Europe are secular too, a lot of them don't go to mosques or become atheists, however the family and social pressure they face is much stronger compared to Christians, so less actually leave their religion.

[Amadeus85]

I don't think that's the main reason. The main reason (in Europe) is that most people are atheist. In some countries the number of atheists is around 70-80% I believe. You are regarded as a weirdo if you believe in God here...

In Europe, about 75% of people are christians. Not all of them go to church, not all of them agree with christian morality, but they identify themselves with this religion. There are very very few european coutries where atheists are majority. I know one, Chech republic.

[Fishman]

That's the price of secularism and economic development.
It's the same in Eastern Europe, except the the most likely cause there is communism. With the exception of Poland and Croatia, most countries there have a high number of non-believers.
It's not only Christians that are affected by these factors. It's Muslims too. Countries like Albania, Bosnia, Kazakhstan etc too have a significant amount of irreligious citizens and of course, Muslims in Western Europe are secular too, a lot of them don't go to mosques or become atheists, however the family and social pressure they face is much stronger compared to Christians, so less actually leave their religion.

:sl:
Yeah, Communism would be a big factor too, not just in Eastern Europe though, but in those Muslim countries you listed as well. Albania even touted itself as 'the world's only atheist state'. Kazakhstan was settled by Russians quite a bit as well.
:w:

[Banu_Hashim]

A lot of my friends would say they've been brought up Christian, but really they have no belief in Christianity or God.

[Fishman]

A lot of my friends would say they've been brought up Christian, but really they have no belief in Christianity or God.

:sl:
When our family did the census (2001, before I was Muslim), we just put down 'C of E', despite being completely atheist.
:w:

[glo]

That's the price of secularism and economic development.
It's the same in Eastern Europe, except the the most likely cause there is communism. With the exception of Poland and Croatia, most countries there have a high number of non-believers.
It's not only Christians that are affected by these factors. It's Muslims too. Countries like Albania, Bosnia, Kazakhstan etc too have a significant amount of irreligious citizens and of course, Muslims in Western Europe are secular too, a lot of them don't go to mosques or become atheists, however the family and social pressure they face is much stronger compared to Christians, so less actually leave their religion.

I agree with much you say, Whatsthepoint.

Because our society has become so secularised there are less external pressures on people to adhere to the 'Christian way of life'. People aren't expected anymore to go to church, have a church wedding, raise their children in a Christian way etc.
So people have more freedom to choose - and many choose to seek fulfillment and meaning elsewhere.

However, what I do see is that those people who do go to church, do pray, do live in a way which follows Christ, seem to do so with real conviction and real desire.
Those who wish to follow Christ remain Christians, those who don't do not have to pretend to be Christians any longer.

That's not such a bad thing.
After all, what is the point in following a religion you don't believe in, just for the sake of pretending and feeling accepted by others?
Most believers in God would agree that our relationship with God is what matters.
If you believe in God, then you also believe that God cannot be fooled or cheated.
If you don't believe in God, then it won't matter to you anyway ...

My prayer is for people to start seeking and searching God. The rest is up to Him.

Peace :)

[Banu_Hashim]

:sl:
When our family did the census (2001, before I was Muslim), we just put down 'C of E', despite being completely atheist.
:w:

Yeah... but historically the Church of England is more political than religious isn't it? With Henry VIII's wish to have autonomy over his marital affairs etc...

[Argamemnon]

It's not only Christians that are affected by these factors. It's Muslims too. Countries like Albania, Bosnia, Kazakhstan etc too have a significant amount of irreligious citizens and of course.

It saddens me to say that a part of the younger generation of Turks in Turkey are becoming increasingly non-religious as well (or just "culturally Muslim")... but there are also a lot of very pious young people. Turkey is a very strange country, it doesn't even seem like one country. We even have a gay pride parade in Istanbul and as a religious person I was very shocked to hear this.

[glo]

It saddens me to say that a part of the younger generation of Turks in Turkey are becoming increasingly non-religious as well (or just "culturally Muslim")... but of course there are also a lot of very pious young people.

I often hear Christians and Muslims argue about which religion is 'bigger' (in terms of numbers).

That always strikes me as pointless.
Perhaps quality (i.e. how seriously people take their faith) matters more than quantity (i.e. how many people proclaim to follow a certain religion on paper).

What do you think?

[Fishman]

Yeah... but historically the Church of England is more political than religious isn't it? With Henry VIII's wish to have autonomy over his marital affairs etc...

:sl:
Church of England is a branch of Protestantism, which was founded as a religious reform movement. The Protestants believed that the Pope was a bad thing, and thought that the king or Head of State should also be the Head of Church in his country. Since Henry VIII didn't want the Pope bossing around his marriages, he converted to Protestantism and set himself up as the head of the Church of England.
Today it isn't really a political issue anymore though, since Henry lived hundreds of years ago. Church of England, despite it's dubious origins, is considered a valid Church.
:w:

[Banu_Hashim]

It saddens me to say that a part of the younger generation of Turks in Turkey are becoming increasingly non-religious as well (or just "culturally Muslim")... but there are also a lot of very pious young people. Turkey is a very strange country, it doesn't even seem like one country. We even have a gay pride parade in Istanbul and as a religious person I was very shocked to learn this.

I think this has emerged with Turkey's new "European" look. They want to be seen in par with any other European country; freedom of speech, equal opportunities etc... But at the same time, they have almost lost the true essence of what it means to be an Islamic country. How it's a privilege to be an Islamic country, to be able to enforce the fair and just laws laid down for us by Rasullulah (saws). You have some of the most beautiful Islamic architecture in Turkey, yet the spirit of the history of these buildings, our own history as Musilms, is being forgotten over time.

[Banu_Hashim]

:sl:
Church of England is a branch of Protestantism, which was founded as a religious reform movement. The Protestants believed that the Pope was a bad thing, and thought that the king or Head of State should also be the Head of Church in his country. Since Henry VIII didn't want the Pope bossing around his marriages, he converted to Protestantism and set himself up as the head of the Church of England.
Today it isn't really a political issue anymore though, since Henry lived hundreds of years ago. Church of England, despite it's dubious origins, is considered a valid Church.
:w:

Yeah true. I didn't mean today... Of course today it is considered a branch of Christianity. :)

[Banu_Hashim]

I often hear Christians and Muslims argue about which religion is 'bigger' (in terms of numbers).

That always strikes me as pointless.
Perhaps quality (i.e. how seriously people take their faith) matters more than quantity (i.e. how many people proclaim to follow a certain religion on paper).

What do you think?

I agree. I think the seriousness in which you take your faith is far more important, than sheer numbers of people.

[Argamemnon]

In Europe, about 75% of people are christians. Not all of them go to church, not all of them agree with christian morality, but they identify themselves with this religion. There are very very few european coutries where atheists are majority. I know one, Chech republic.

Let's look at what mighty wikipedia claims;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe

The chart was not clear when I posted so I have deleted it.

[Fishman]

I think this has emerged with Turkey's new "European" look. They want to be seen in par with any other European country; freedom of speech, equal opportunities etc... But at the same time, they have almost lost the true essence of what it means to be an Islamic country. How it's a privilege to be an Islamic country, to be able to enforce the fair and just laws laid down for us by Rasullulah (saws). You have some of the most beautiful Islamic architecture in Turkey, yet the spirit of the history of these buildings, our own history as Musilms, is being forgotten over time.

:sl:
There is one thing that Ataturk did do for Islam though: he stopped the Saudis from demolishing Masjid-ul-Nabi, allegedly. Can't find any primary sources for this unfortunately.
:w:

[Argamemnon]

I often hear Christians and Muslims argue about which religion is 'bigger' (in terms of numbers).

That always strikes me as pointless.
Perhaps quality (i.e. how seriously people take their faith) matters more than quantity (i.e. how many people proclaim to follow a certain religion on paper).

What do you think?

I would agree with that...

[Argamemnon]

You have some of the most beautiful Islamic architecture in Turkey, yet the spirit of the history of these buildings, our own history as Musilms, is being forgotten over time.

The spirit of Islam is still very strong in Turkey. There are nearly 100,000 mosques, I believe. About 24 million people attend the friday prayers at mosques, that's a huge number...

[Banu_Hashim]

The spirit of Islam is still very strong in Turkey. There are nearly 100,000 mosques, I believe. About 24 million people attend the friday prayers at mosques, that's a huge number...

:sl:

MashAllah. I stand corrected. The extreme secular must be very much in the minority then.

:w:

[Argamemnon]

:sl:

MashAllah. I stand corrected. The extreme secular must be very much in the minority then.

:w:

:sl:

The fanatic ultra-secular are a small but very powerful minority, but there are also religious people who support the foundations of the Turkish Republic, even though they might disagree with the headscarf ban in public buildings. Turkey is a very weird country, even I get confused..

:w:

[Banu_Hashim]

Why did they ban headscarf's anyway? I never understood the reasoning behind it. Doesn't the president's wife wear a headscarf?

[Argamemnon]

^^ maybe we should create a separate thread for that :D

It really is a complicated matter, I couldn't answer in a few sentences. I hope you'll forgive me.

[Banu_Hashim]

^^Haha... fair enough. I see your point bro :D.

[Güven]

Why did they ban headscarf's anyway? I never understood the reasoning behind it. Doesn't the president's wife wear a headscarf?

:salamext:

They are afraid the shariah law will come back and they will lose their secular state ...and the woman who dont wear it are affraid that they will be pressured to wear one.


well like the brother said it is a complicated issue...and not a topic for this thread

[Amadeus85]

I think that we shouldnt trust those who say that Europe's predescination is atheism. Those people who lived in 80's they would never say that the evil ideology of communism will fall apart in next few years. No one can prove that an atheism is some higher level of human history. Our society nowadays isnt better, than it was 50 yearsa go, when most people were practising christians. There is more apathy in the society,more fatalism, nihilism. We can look at the muslim world. 40 years ago, muslim world seemed to be fascinated by socialism,communism,maoism. Now its totaly different. Everything can change into better.

[KAding]

That's the price of secularism and economic development.
It's the same in Eastern Europe, except the the most likely cause there is communism. With the exception of Poland and Croatia, most countries there have a high number of non-believers.
It's not only Christians that are affected by these factors. It's Muslims too. Countries like Albania, Bosnia, Kazakhstan etc too have a significant amount of irreligious citizens and of course, Muslims in Western Europe are secular too, a lot of them don't go to mosques or become atheists, however the family and social pressure they face is much stronger compared to Christians, so less actually leave their religion.

Yeah, I suppose at a certain moment there is a "tipping point" at which social pressure to be non-religious becomes stronger than the age old pressure to be a God-fearing citizen. At that moment the process of secularization accelerates.

On a global scale though, it is clear that believers far far outnumber unbelievers. Even in societies so similar to Europe, such as the US, religion is as strong as ever. Though like others here I do wonder what percentage of people are so-called RINO's, i.e. "Religious in name only".

[Argamemnon]

Even in societies so similar to Europe, such as the US, religion is as strong as ever.

Most people say this, but I seriously doubt that religion is that strong in the US. The world's biggest porn industry is there after all, that should tell us something, lol..

I would be happy if one of our American friends could clarify this issue. Are most Americans as religious as people in the rest of the world think they are? Then what's up with all this materialism, capitalism and hedonism.. how religious is that??

[KAding]

I think that we shouldnt trust those who say that Europe's predescination is atheism. Those people who lived in 80's they would never say that the evil ideology of communism will fall apart in next few years. No one can prove that an atheism is some higher level of human history. Our society nowadays isnt better, than it was 50 yearsa go, when most people were practising christians. There is more apathy in the society,more fatalism, nihilism. We can look at the muslim world. 40 years ago, muslim world seemed to be fascinated by socialism,communism,maoism. Now its totaly different. Everything can change into better.

True.

In Dutch the have a nice new word "ietsisme", which translates to "somethingism", a belief that there are higher powers out there. At the same time this belief distances itself from traditional religions and their understanding of God. So, from this view, there is something out there, but we just don't know what and how it actually relates to us!

Many belief that is the future of religion in secular societies like Europe. I don't know, it certainly sounds like an improvement over much more political and legislative traditional religions.

[AntiKarateKid]

True.

In Dutch the have a nice new word "ietsisme", which translates to "somethingism", a belief that there are higher powers out there. At the same time this belief distances itself from traditional religions and their understanding of God. So, from this view, there is something out there, but we just don't know what and how it actually relates to us!

Many belief that is the future of religion in secular societies like Europe. I don't know, it certainly sounds like an improvement over much more political and legislative traditional religions.

It, quite frankly, sounds stupid. A useless mix of atheism, distorted religion, and laziness.

THey should get up off their butts and find out what that "something" out there is, religion is serious and not some childish skepticism. Their view is probably worthless in the eyes of Allah who has sent messengers.

As far as legislative religions go, why wouldnt Allah give us a complete set of moral and legal rules? It seems like the complete package but then again, the "somethingists" may disagree about what it means to be a perfect religion.

BTW "Many believe"?? That is news to the billions of Muslims, CHristians and Jews.

It is laughable that they think they could propose a better ideology than that of the Prophets of Allah.

[AntiKarateKid]

Most people say this, but I seriously doubt that religion is that strong in the US. The world's biggest porn industry is there after all, that should tell us something, lol..

I would be happy if one of our American friends could clarify this issue. Are most Americans as religious as people in the rest of the world think they are? Then what's up with all this materialism, capitalism and hedonism.. how religious is that??

American is a country of failed morals. It has more people who consider themselves religious but are corrupt themselves. Europe has corrupt people who acknowlege themselves as atheists.

I see America turning into a den of corrupt religious fanatics and Europe as a bunch of godless fools.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

From where I sit, in the UK, it has seemed for a long time now that Christianity is dying out. Statistics may point to the UK being a country with a Christian majority, but many are "Religious in name only", as KAding mentioned. Religious statistics should also never be trusted as a general rule, of course.

There are, of course, many Christians still around, and Christian charity groups such as the Salvation Army and CAFOD are still well-respected in the UK for the work they do.

For some reason, (and it might be interesting to discuss why), overt displays of religious belief seem to be less common in Britain than in other countries. Tony Blair could only openly convert to Catholicism after he'd relinquished the post of Prime Minister, for instance.

In my school, a boy started refusing to go to lessons because he wanted to pray for ten hours a day; the head brought round the school counsellor and had several psychiatrists ready to come and see him. He was an intelligent, sincere person, and he wasn't just being lazy. He was at a Christian school, and felt that was the best way to express the faith he'd been taught. You can make your own judgement, but I think the head's reaction shows something about the way "excessive" religious belief is viewed in Britain.

Abandoned churches can be found all over Britain. There simply aren't enough worshippers to fill their pews. Some have been turned into nightclubs, restaurants or theatres. Many are just left to decay because no-one can afford to maintain them. It's a sad state of affairs for anyone who cares about architecture or national heritage.

These are just a few thoughts about the state of Christianity in the UK, and I hope they are of some use in the discussion here.

In an attempt to sum up:

In Britain, there are many Christians, and there are many non-Christians; there are Christians who don't shout about it, and there are "Christians" who actually don't believe in god; it's also worth pointing out that there are also a lot of perfectly sincere Christians in many nations who know next to nothing about the contents of the Bible, and any perceived "decline" in Christianity could have something to do with that.

Peace

[Banu_Hashim]

Er... he prayed for 10 hours a day?!..

Christians don't have compulsory prayer do they?

[mkh4JC]

Most people say this, but I seriously doubt that religion is that strong in the US. The world's biggest porn industry is there after all, that should tell us something, lol..

I would be happy if one of our American friends could clarify this issue. Are most Americans as religious as people in the rest of the world think they are? Then what's up with all this materialism, capitalism and hedonism.. how religious is that??

Well, living where I live (Detroit, Michigan) and from my understanding, most people today (even in the U.S.) only say they are or they think they are Christian, when in reality they don't have an ounce of Jesus. I wouldn't hesitate at all also to say that there are whole churches throughout this nation with crooked pastors, leading people astray, as Jesus put it, 'the blind leading the blind.'

I can't tell you--for instance--the amount of times I have met someone who confessed to me that they were Christian and the next thing that comes out of their mouth is a dirty joke or a swear word. In truth, if you are truly Christian and someone comes into your life and they confess that they too are Christian, it doesn't take very long for you to confirm the truth of the matter.

Having said all that, Christianity (ie Biblical Christianity) is not going to fade away, as the Bible says that Christ's truth endureth to all generations.

[Aqeel Ahmed]

I'm interested in Christianity in different continents. Christianity is slowly dying out in Europe, I think we can all agree on this. But what about the US and other regions and continents of the world?

:sl: Yes I live in Canada and the places I go have around 20-30 people Christians out of 100. You can say that in Canada it has decreased about 30%.

I have lived in England 10 years and I do not know a single Christian.... All the English people I know are Atheists and the only time they mention Christianity is to make fun of it :(

If my brain is working and I still have my history studies , in UK they usually all live in a single area.

In Europe, about 75% of people are christians. Not all of them go to church, not all of them agree with christian morality, but they identify themselves with this religion. There are very very few european coutries where atheists are majority. I know one, Chech republic.

Yes Today is Christmas, I think it is anyway. And the renters of the down part of the house are not going to church even though they are Christians because of the snow.
Aqeel.
:wl:

[wth1257]

:sl:
When our family did the census (2001, before I was Muslim), we just put down 'C of E', despite being completely atheist.
:w:

Church of England?

[Aqeel Ahmed]

:sl:
No it is not a church it is a procedure aquiring and recording members of a given population which could be any religion, race , belief or even colour. Aqeel :sl:

[wth1257]

:sl:
No it is not a church it is a procedure aquiring and recording members of a given population which could be any religion, race , belief or even colour. Aqeel :sl:

I'm sorry?

[Aqeel Ahmed]

:sl:
Here's a simple version with my own words: it basically is a system that records , people of a specific religion, race or belief.
:sl:

[Trumble]

I think that we shouldnt trust those who say that Europe's predescination is atheism.

I would agree with that. In my experience many more 'believe' in some sort of God, or are agnostic rather than atheist, than was the case twenty years ago. What is falling away is belief as presented by traditional Christian doctrines, and associated practice. Europe is actually ripe for and would be very receptive to a 'new' theism of some sort. I'm not sure if Islam might fill that gap or not. I suspect 'not' in general terms, although it might for not inconsiderable numbers.

[Pygoscelis]

I believe that the death, or transformation if you prefer, of religion in the west is in a large part the result of democracy and technology. Multiculturalism, modernity, science, all work against traditional black and white dogmatic religion and pushes us towards more all encompassing, liberal religious views. Thats what I think anyway. When people are faced with more cultures and philosophies and are less insular I think individuality and coming up with your own views rather than adopting those of your parents or community becomes more common, and the more people do that the even more varied the marketplace of ideas becomes. I think this is also why many hardcore sects like quakers etc keep to themselves.

[Grace Seeker]

Most people say this, but I seriously doubt that religion is that strong in the US. The world's biggest porn industry is there after all, that should tell us something, lol..

I would be happy if one of our American friends could clarify this issue. Are most Americans as religious as people in the rest of the world think they are? Then what's up with all this materialism, capitalism and hedonism.. how religious is that??

More than four out of five adults (83%) pray during a typical week.

In terms of raw numbers, on any given Sunday you will 141,000,000 American in church. Many people think that sports and movies dominate American culture, but this figure is many times over the total of all the people you would find at attending every pro sports game, all of the college and high school sports, and every movied at every theater from the entire week. So, while it doesn't get the press of these other aspects of our daily life, religion still dominates our culture much more than it is given credit for. But honesty requires me to say that a large number of those attending are little more than pew warmers.


The United States is anything but a united state with regard to the practice of religion. Nearly 90% of people say that they believe in God. And over half of the people still report to surveyers that they attended church last week. But most pastors will tell you that what they are used to seeing is about 1/4 to 1/3 of the membership in church on any given Sunday.

Attendance is best in the south and at it's worst in the northeast and Pacific northwest.


George Barna is always doing surveys of the religion life in America and he provides some intersting numbers:

In 2000, it was reported 70 percent of Americans experienced and expressed their faith through their local church, 5 percent through alternative faith-based communities, 5 percent through their families, and 20 percent through media, arts and culture.

Percentage of adults nationwide who have attended a church service in the past seven days not including a special event such as a wedding or a funeral. 2004-43%
2002-43%
2001-42%
2000-40%
1997-43%
1996-37%
1992-47%
1991-49%

47% of American adults attend church in a typical weekend, not including a special event such as a wedding or a funeral.

62% of Republicans attended church in a typical weekend compared to 47% of Democrats. (2006)

Nationally, four out of every ten adults is a born again Christian**. But there is a wide range of incidence levels related to the location of born again adults. For instance, the market with the largest percentage of its adults classified as born again -- by a large margin -- is Jackson, Mississippi, where 83% of adults meet the criteria. There are ten markets in which at least six out of every ten adults are born again -- and each of them is located in the South.

(**You need to know what Barna means by a "born again Christian". This is someone who self-identifies as having had a life changing experience with Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal savior. But they don't necessarily have to live that out, and there are also persons who would call themselves Christian that don't like to use the term "born again".)

There were also six out of the 86 markets studied that had fewer than 25% of the adult public satisfying the born again standard. The lowest of those were Boston (21%), Providence (21%) and New York (22%). Of the six lowest-ranked markets, five are in the Northeast.

The market with the greatest number of individuals who are born again was, once again, the City of Angels (Los Angeles) with 3.6 million born again believers in the metro area.

Just 3 of the nation's 25 largest metropolitan areas have a born again majority. However, 15 of the 27 mid-sized markets (adult population of a half-million up to one million) have a born again majority.

Adults are most likely to claim they have a responsibility to share their religious beliefs with other people if they live in Birmingham, Alabama. That perspective is least common in Providence and Green Bay.

Believing that God is "the all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe who still rules it today" is most common in Tulsa. It is least predominant in Boston and San Francisco.

One out of every six residents of Massachusetts, Connecticut and Washington are atheist or agnostic – nearly double the national average. Atheists and agnostics are hardest to locate in Louisiana and Missouri.

In the last four years, there has been a rise in the proportion of adults who read the Bible.

Christians spend seven times as much time on entertainment as they do on spiritual activities.

Although 2/3 of all teenagers say they know all the basic teachings... of the Christian faith, 2/3 reject the existence of Satan, 3/5 reject the existence of the Holy Spirit, and 1/2 believe that Jesus sinned.

Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks just sixth among the 21 life goals tested, trailing such desires as 'living a comfortable lifestyle.'

A minority of born again adults (44%) and an even smaller proportion of born again teenagers (9%) are certain of the existence of absolute moral truth.

Of the ten moral behaviors evaluated, a majority of Americans believed that each of three activities were 'morally acceptable.' Those included gambling (61%), co-habitation (60%), and sexual fantasies (59%). Nearly half of the adult population felt that two other behaviors were morally acceptable: having an abortion (45%) and having a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex other than their spouse (42%). About one-third of the population gave the stamp of approval to pornography (38%), profanity (36%), drunkenness (35%) and homosexual sex (30%). The activity that garnered the least support was using non-prescription drugs (17%). ...Less than one out of every ten evangelical Christians maintained that adultery, gay sex, pornography, profanity, drunkenness and abortion are morally acceptable."


More than half of those who attend a Christian church (56%) say that they are absolutely committed to the Christian faith, and another 33% say that they are moderately committed. (2007)
Commitment to the Christian faith changes considerably with age. Of those who attend church, only 32% of Mosaics say they are absolutely committed to the Christian faith, compared to 48% of Busters, 61% of Boomers and 68% of Elders. (2006)


There has been a 92% increase in the number of unchurched Americans in the last thirteen years. In 1991 there were 39 million unchurched Americans compared with 75 million currently. (2004)

More than three out of five (62%) unchurched adults consider themselves to be Christian. (2006)

8% of the population are evangelicals (2007) Of the five faith segments (evangelicals, non-evangelical born again Christians, notional Christians, adherents of non-Christian faiths, and atheists/agnostics), evangelicals were the most likely to do each of the following:

• discuss spiritual matters with other people.
• volunteer at a church or non-profit organization.
• discuss political matters with other people.
• discuss moral issues and conditions with others.
• stop watching a television program because of its values or viewpoints.
• go out of their way to encourage or compliment someone.

[Argamemnon]

^^ Thank you Grace Seeker. I would never have imagined that so many people attended church in the US, what a contrast with many nations in Europe....

[Zico]

:sl:
There is one thing that Ataturk did do for Islam though: he stopped the Saudis from demolishing Masjid-ul-Nabi, allegedly. Can't find any primary sources for this unfortunately.
:w:

Definetly NOT true.

[Fishman]

Definetly NOT true.

:sl:
Nope. No primary sources doesn't mean no secondary ones. Apparently it was on some kind of TV program recently, but not one in our country.

According to this naff forum, he said this:

I've learned in pain that Hz Muhammed's grave will be demolished. You can not touch this sacred trust. If I hear even one of its stone is damaged I will send away my army.

:w:

[Zico]

:sl:
Nope. No primary sources doesn't mean no secondary ones. Apparently it was on some kind of TV program recently, but not one in our country.

According to this naff forum, he said this:


:w:

:sl:

Hmmm interesting...I've got to ask my Saudi friends if this is true. Thank you for that link bro :)

:w:

[YusufNoor]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

this statement:

In terms of raw numbers, on any given Sunday you will 141,000,000 American in church

CANNOT BE CORRECT!

the current popluation of the US is estimated at:

303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)

according to:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/us.html

so the unfounded claim is that ON ANY SUNDAY 46.41% of the US is in church!

I would never have imagined that so many people attended church in the US, what a contrast with many nations in Europe....

your imagination WAS correct!

here's one reason why that claim is false:

How Many Americans Really Attend Church Each Week?
30 comments | Permalink

How many Americans go to church regularly?

If you listen to the answers provided by major opinion research firms, the answer usually hovers around 40%. (National Opinion Research Center: 38%; Institute for Social Research’s World Values: 44%; Barna: 41%; National Election Studies: 40%; Gallup: 41%.)

But in recent years this consensus has been challenged. It seems that it’s more accurate to say that 40% of Americans claim to attend church regularly.

see that?

the article continues:

In 1998, sociologist Stanley Presser at the University of Michigan—whose “research focuses on questionnaire design and testing, the accuracy of survey responses, and ethical issues stemming from the use of human subjects”—co-authored a study entitled: “Data Collection Mode and Social Desirability Bias in Self-Reported Religious Attendance,” American Sociological Review, v. 63 (1998): 137-145 (with L. Stinson). Comparing diaries with actual attendance, they made the estimate that the actual percentage of Americans attending church from the mid-1960’s to the 90’s was about 26%.

One of the problem comes in how the question is asked in a poll. Different questions yield different results. For example, in a survey you might ask, “What did you do last weekend?” listing for the person a number of possible activities, including church-going. This will yield a very different response than if you asked, “Did you attend church last Sunday?”

One factor is that people often answer according to what they think someone like them wants or ought to do. So people tend to overreport on the number of sexual partners they’ve had and how much money they give to charity, and tend to underreport on illegal drug use and the like. Hence, church attendance is often inflated.

going on:

In 1998 C. Kirk Hadaway and P.L. Marler published an article in the Christian Century entitled, Did You Really Go To Church This Week? Behind the Poll Data where they examine many of these factors. The authors focused on individual counties in the US and Canada, surveying actual church/synagogue attendance and comparing it with random surveys they were conducting. They found that actual church attendance was about half the rate indicated by national public opinion polls. Their estimate for US actual church attendance is around 20%.

Dave Olson, director of church planting for the Evangelical Covenant Church, surveying only Christian churches (i.e., evangelical, mainline, and Catholic) has come up with a similar number. The percentage of Americans regularly attending church is 18.7%.

this says almost 1 in 5, still too high!

but the article adds:

Olson has collected his findings in an eye-opening slide-show entitled Twelve Surprising Facts about the US Church. The 12 points cannot be copied and pasted, so I’ve reprinted them below, along with links to his charts and maps.

1. The percentage of people that attend a Christian church each weekend is far below what pollsters report. (US percentage of population in worship on any given weekend in 2000)
2. The percentage of people attending a Christian church each weekend decreased significantly from 1990-2000. (US worship attendance in 1990 and 2000 by percentage of population)
3. Christian church attendance is between 1 ½ and 2 times higher in the South and the Midwest than it is in the West and the Northeast. (Percentage of population attending a Christian church on any given weekend in 2000)
4. Only one state [Hawaii] saw an increase in the percentage attending church from 1990-2000. [California, Connecticut, Georgia, and Washington were close to keeping up with population growth.] (Increase or decline in percentage of population attending a Christian church on any given weekend 1990–2000)
5. The percentage that attends church on any given weekend is declining in over two thirds of the counties in the United States. [Among the states with the highest percentages of declining counties were Minnesota, Wisconsin, and South Carolina.] (US counties: Increase or decline in percentage of population attending a Christian church on any given weekend 1990–2000)
6. Evangelicals, mainliners, and Catholics are strongest in very different regions of the country. (maps for Evangelicals, mainliners, and Catholics)
7. Churches with 50–299 people in attendance are shrinking, while the smallest churches and larger churches are growing. (Decadal growth rate of churches by size category)
8. Established churches, from 40–180 years old, on average decline in attendance. (Yearly attendance growth of existing churches by decade started)
9. The increase in the number of churches is about one eighth of what is needed to keep up with population growth. (Net increase in number of churches in the US between 1990 and 2000)
10. The church-planting rate has been declining throughout the history of our country. (Churches started per 1 million residents)
11. Existing churches are plateauing and new church growth provides less than half of the growth necessary to keep up with population growth. (Attendance growth percentage of Protestant churches 1990–2000)
12. If the present trends continue, the percentage of the population that attends church in 2050 will be almost half of what it is today. (Projected percentage of population attending church on any given weekend)

source:

http://theologica.blogspot.com/2005/...ly-attend.html

now if you look further down the page, you will see this comment:

I really do attend church (a very progressive Presbyterian congregation) every Sunday...or nearly every Sunday and I'd agree with these findings based on my limited view of the situation and our churches' empty pews.

The press blew this one way out of proportion with the whole "moral values" kerfluffle after the election. Fer instance in my workgroup of 20 people in the Norther Virginia area, I am the only regular churchgoer.

The evangelicals may have a little power right now, but they ain't a majority, no matter how loudly James Dobson brays. Lets pray that the midterms in 2006 reflect this.

and why we can't know:

Church attendance studies by Presser and Stinson:

It gets worse.

Sociologist Stanley Presser of the University of Maryland and research assistant Linda Stinson of the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics completed a study of notes in personal diaries. These time-use diaries were maintained for social scientific research projects in the mid-1960s, 1970s and 1990s. Those participating in the projects were asked to keep track of their activities. The 1992-1994 diaries, for example, were used by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to determine exposure of the participants to harmful substances in the environment.

Presser and Stinson found that many Americans were not at church when they claimed to be. Their best estimates are that the percentage of adults who actually attended religious services during the previous weekend dropped from 42% in 1965 to 26% in 1994.

Presser said:

"We asked people, tell us everything you did in the last 24 hours so we can know what chemicals you might have been exposed to. If somebody went to church, they ought to tell us, but if they didn't go, they shouldn't manufacture it. We didn't do what most polls of religious belief do, and ask, 'Did you go to church in the last seven days?,' which some might interpret as being asked whether they were good people and good Christians." 13

The Washington Post reported that the analysis

"reveals a discrepancy between the diaries and the polls, and suggests that many Americans have been misreporting how they spend their Sunday mornings, inflating estimates of church attendance by perhaps as much as a third." 14

American Atheists commented:

"The researchers also found that the percentage of Americans who lie about their attendance is increasing. Presser and Stinson described the 16-point drop off in church attendance 'really very striking'..." 14

If this study by Presser and Stinson is accurate, it would indicate a substantial drop in actual church attendance from the mid 1960s to the mid 1990s. Since the reported attendance has remained stuck at the magical 40% figure for decades, one might conclude that the rate of exaggeration of church attendance is increasing. Also, it would appear that polls are to be mistrusted. Nobody really knows what the percentage attendance is. To obtain accurate data, pollsters will have to abandon the comfortable task of polling opinion by phone and camp out in church, synagogue, and mosque parking lots so that they can count noses.

an amusing aside:

Hadaway, Marler, and Chaves repeated their Ohio study in Oxford Country in southern Ontario, Canada. Most polls show that 20% of the adult population say that they go to church weekly. Again, half were lying, as only about 10% actually attend church weekly.

if this statement

The percentage of Americans regularly attending church is 18.7%.

read:

The percentage of Christians regularly attending church is 18.7%.

i would still claim it was too high!

here's another quote:

There is also a 2005 article which only Scott Thumma and Randy Travis and David Olson seem to have noticed: it strengthens the argument of the 1993 article that church attendance may be below 22% of the population.

source:

http://www.andyrowell.net/andy_rowel...-weigh-in.html

22% in 1993 and most of these sites claim that the % is falling...

i've been living in the US for 50 years and the number of Christians that i know who attend church every week is ZERO!

you might be able to make those overinflated claims for XMAS or Easter!

:w:

[Grace Seeker]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

this statement:



CANNOT BE CORRECT!

the current popluation of the US is estimated at:

303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)

according to:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/us.html

so the unfounded claim is that ON ANY SUNDAY 46.41% of the US is in church!

I'm actually glad you called me on that. I was trying to quote some stats from a website that I was unable to cut and paste and inadvertently left out the word "claim". I think you will note that later I showed my own skepticism of some of those numbers, my experience is closer to 25-30% of people attend church on any given Sunday. But it is true more people attend church than sporting events, even though sports does seem like our national religion.

your imagination WAS correct!

With regard to US church attedance vs. European church attendance, though the rate is going down in the USA, I understand it is still higher than the abismally low rates that are present in most European countries. Christianity is actually on the increase in parts of Latin America and Asia and exploding in Africa.