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Re.TiReD
12-21-2008, 11:22 PM
AssalamuAlaykum

Since my other attempt to spark a discussion didnt work, here's another.

I'm too sleepy to make it sound coherent :-[
So...in my 19 years of living I have seen...

Those with British born parents are less likely to fall into the wrong crowd, less likely to get caught up with social networks and rubbish like that....whilst those with parents from back home and a limited understanding of the English language, will be more likely to get caught up.

My theory is so ridiculous I want a response :D

I'm not even guna say why I think that coz atm TJ is spamming my fone :exhausted

WassalamuAlaykum
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Banu_Hashim
12-21-2008, 11:28 PM
Lol, why are all these controversial threads started by you eh? :p

I think to a certain extent this is true. I think also it depends on the area in which you live. In the area where my mum teaches in an independent full time Islamic School, there are quite a few somali families who you could say have a limited understanding of english. Therefore, the parents can't relate to their kids properly in this society, which could theoretically lead to them falling in with the 'wrong crowds'. But I'm not sure if kids of British born parents are any better/worse. My parents arn't british born. My mum grew up in america... and my dad came to the UK when he was 20 to study from India... so I guess you could say I'm an anomaly. :D

Hmmm....
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Mysterious Uk
12-21-2008, 11:31 PM
well my dad has been living here since he was 13 yrs old so he is more british than anything and ma mum came wen she was 18/20 or summit. Ma siblings and i are 'good' kids but that has nothing 2 do with him being in this country 4 ages it's cos of the way ma parents are and how they raised us. If u have parents that u can talk and raise u 2 understand wat is acceptable and that; then ur bound 2 grow up not getting into the wrong crowd and stuff.
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Banu_Hashim
12-21-2008, 11:35 PM
^^ Yep. It's how you're raised. If your parents have good morals and ethics... then that should shape the person you end up to be. Whether you're parents are British born or not is irrelevant I think. In fact, people i know who's parents are from 'back home' are more respectful than others because they have the traditional respect taught to them by their parents.

EDIT: I read your original post wrong. I thought you wrote kids of British Born parents are less likely to get caught up with the wrong crowd, rather than social networks. Sorry!
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qassy!
12-21-2008, 11:47 PM
I think your wrong. Maybe when it comes down to social networking sites. When it comes down to going out, they'll let you more then non-british born parents!
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S_87
12-21-2008, 11:50 PM
none of my parents are brit born :hiding:

i dont know about your theory but i do remember back in high school those whos parents were not brit born and had limited english understanding got away with a lot because their parents didnt understand alot
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qassy!
12-21-2008, 11:53 PM
^^ on top of that they cant speak English therefore people back in my high school where struggling with studies.
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Ummu Sufyaan
12-22-2008, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud
AssalamuAlaykum

Since my other attempt to spark a discussion didnt work, here's another.

I'm too sleepy to make it sound coherent :-[
So...in my 19 years of living I have seen...

Those with British born parents are less likely to fall into the wrong crowd, less likely to get caught up with social networks and rubbish like that....whilst those with parents from back home and a limited understanding of the English language, will be more likely to get caught up.

My theory is so ridiculous I want a response :D

I'm not even guna say why I think that coz atm TJ is spamming my fone :exhausted

WassalamuAlaykum
i havnt noticed such thing...i wonder why :mmokay: :p
buuut, i don't think its got anything to do with where the rents are from and all..its all about whether or not you raise your kids based on the fear of Allah...

but having said that i think the parents influence may affect the kiddies cos some parents worry about their reputation and how they look like among others---> some parents think that its a shame to be religious :rollseyes so if thats the case, then maybe thier kids will fall into the wrong crowd, etc cos itll look bad (i.e affect the parents reputation) if the kiddies were religious and hung out with the right crowd...i hope that makes sense :exhausted :-[ :p
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noorseeker
12-22-2008, 09:45 AM
It all depends on the parents nowadays. I think british born parents know the flow, they understand whats kids go through, so they may give them a bit of freedom.

But you see kids and parents sitting together watching bollywood movies together, where there is no haya.


The good thing is british born parents who are practising , will make sure their kids grow up praying and that. and know about islam

whereas we wont encouraged to know about islam, apart from learning arabic
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Banu_Hashim
12-22-2008, 09:55 AM
Originally Posted by nightstar
But you see kids and parents sitting together watching bollywood movies together, where there is no haya.
Lol, I havn't really come across people (muslims) sitting down with their parents and doing this.


Originally Posted by nightstar
The good thing is british born parents who are practising , will make sure their kids grow up praying and that. and know about islam
Yes, I think this is true, to an extent.

Originally Posted by nightstar
whereas we wont encouraged to know about islam, apart from learning arabic
A little bit of a generalisation. My mum was born in India... but grew up in the US. She taught me from a very young age about Islam. The basics things you need to know. By the age of four, I knew how to pray, make wudhu, knew about the prophets, and read Qur'an. She was the catalyst for my interest in Islam.

So individually we're all different.

:D
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unknown_JJ
12-22-2008, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud
AssalamuAlaykum

I'm not even guna say why I think that coz atm TJ is spamming my fone :exhausted

WassalamuAlaykum


Yu said I could bump Yr stuff, so I decided to bump the texts too =D

Great idea?

Those with British born parents are less likely to fall into the wrong crowd, less likely to get caught up with social networks and rubbish like that....whilst those with parents from back home and a limited understanding of the English language, will be more likely to get caught up.
Not true..Well not entirely true..

Momma: Oi whose this guy Yr talking to on msn, it is a guy isn't it?

Me:
Argh! Ma! that's piNkie, she's a girl :-[ Yu hurt her feelings now, imsad

Momma: Dhur gadha! Go wash the dishes!!

Me: Dhurro!



BUMP!
Reply

Muezzin
12-22-2008, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud
AssalamuAlaykum

Since my other attempt to spark a discussion didnt work, here's another.

I'm too sleepy to make it sound coherent :-[
So...in my 19 years of living I have seen...

Those with British born parents are less likely to fall into the wrong crowd,
It's the kids who choose their friends, rather than their parents. But, things like the school location, parents' attitude etc, will all influence the 'pool' of people from which the children will choose friends.

less likely to get caught up with social networks and rubbish like that...
If you're talking about things like Facebook, that's not a strong argument. Everyone is on that thing, regardless of their parentage.

whilst those with parents from back home and a limited understanding of the English language, will be more likely to get caught up.
Good parenting is good parenting, despite language barriers.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
12-22-2008, 02:05 PM
There's less whites than non-whites in prisons, I think.
More whites than non-whites suffer from drug dependencies (that's a guess).
Whites are more likely to hold a degree than non-whites (guess).
etc.
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unknown_JJ
12-22-2008, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
There's less whites than non-whites in prisons, I think.
More whites than non-whites suffer from drug dependencies (that's a guess).
Whites are more likely to hold a degree than non-whites (guess).
etc.

Why are we talking about whites and Non-whites now?

Let's talk about British people and Non-British people,

Not all British people are white you know, please tell me you knew that.. :X
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Whatsthepoint
12-22-2008, 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by unknown_JJ
Why are we talking about whites and Non-whites now?

Let's talk about British people and Non-British people,

Not all British people are white you know, please tell me you knew that.. :X
Sorry, I thought it said European and non-European descent.
Well, I guess you can replace whites with British and non-whites with non-British and it won't make too much difference.
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Re.TiReD
12-22-2008, 05:16 PM
AssalamuAlaykum

I make the thread without thinking really but since we have replies, lets go!

What I meant is that I've grown up with friends who were wild and truly rebellious...they did what they wanted and their parents didnt know about a single thing they were doing. They couldnt speak English and life for them it seemed was spent 100% in the house. They had the internet but it was the 'thing'....if elders dont know anything about the PC or what their children can get up to on it, then yeh it's not their fault what the kids do...but it is more likely that children will 'explore' the different things on there.

It actually depends on the individual too and how you've been brought up - true. But even though you've been brought up in the best way....a little bitta freedom can ruin a person. Coz on the flipside...I know people who were taught the best manners, taught about halal and haram and that they shouldnt listen to music etc....but because they felt as though they had less freedom (them teenage years are hell) they did everything 'wrong' outside of the home.

The ones who are British born though, if they have taqwa then I feel the kids will be less likely to fall into wrongdoing as they'll be taught right from wrong but then kinda....'moderated' at home too...

I made the initial statement because there's a huge difference between me and my friends. Mums in particular play a great role (Dads dont count coz I dont see mine often as I'd like - too busy) but ... yah...

WassalamuAlaykum
Reply

Banu_Hashim
12-22-2008, 05:22 PM
^^.. Yeah... basically what I was trying to say but didn't put as eloquently.
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Muezzin
12-22-2008, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud
AssalamuAlaykum

I make the thread without thinking really but since we have replies, lets go!

What I meant is that I've grown up with friends who were wild and truly rebellious...they did what they wanted and their parents didnt know about a single thing they were doing. They couldnt speak English and life for them it seemed was spent 100% in the house.
Even if the parents speak English fluently, kids can (and do) still behave as you describe. They simply lie.

They had the internet but it was the 'thing'....if elders dont know anything about the PC or what their children can get up to on it, then yeh it's not their fault what the kids do...but it is more likely that children will 'explore' the different things on there.
Parents' level of tech-savvy has nothing to do with their country of origin, and everything to do with the fact that Net-capable home computers are still relatively recent. The 'Internet Generation' encompasses people who came of age in the late 90's and the present.

So the problem of children 'exploring' on the Internet is one for all parents relatively unfamiliar with it, wherever they happen to have been born.

It actually depends on the individual too and how you've been brought up - true. But even though you've been brought up in the best way....a little bitta freedom can ruin a person. Coz on the flipside...I know people who were taught the best manners, taught about halal and haram and that they shouldnt listen to music etc....but because they felt as though they had less freedom (them teenage years are hell) they did everything 'wrong' outside of the home.
That's teenage rebellion. Everyone rebels to some degree, but not everyone breaks the laws of their religion - at least not those who take it seriously to begin with.

The ones who are British born though, if they have taqwa then I feel the kids will be less likely to fall into wrongdoing as they'll be taught right from wrong but then kinda....'moderated' at home too...
Why do you say that?

I made the initial statement because there's a huge difference between me and my friends. Mums in particular play a great role (Dads dont count coz I dont see mine often as I'd like - too busy) but ... yah...

WassalamuAlaykum
I still think really excellent parenting transcends all this.
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Re.TiReD
12-22-2008, 05:37 PM
Hmm, what I mean is that even if my mum didnt use the internet as a child, she'd have used it now....heck sometimes I cant even get into my MSN coz she's talking to her sis on it. I think those from the subcontinent would not try as much to educate themselves when it comes to this new and improved way of living...mobile phones, internet etc etc

Why do you say that?
What part exactly?
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Muezzin
12-22-2008, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud
Hmm, what I mean is that even if my mum didnt use the internet as a child, she'd have used it now....heck sometimes I cant even get into my MSN coz she's talking to her sis on it. I think those from the subcontinent would not try as much to educate themselves when it comes to this new and improved way of living...mobile phones, internet etc etc
I see.

What part exactly?
The ones who are British born though, if they have taqwa then I feel the kids will be less likely to fall into wrongdoing as they'll be taught right from wrong but then kinda....'moderated' at home too...
You seem to feel that the children of British born parents with taqwa will be less likely to do wrong as they will be taught morals and 'moderated' at home.

Implicitly, you seem to feel that the children of non-British-born parents will be more likely to do wrong, as they will not be taught morals or moderated at home.

What makes you say this?
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Woodrow
12-22-2008, 05:45 PM
I do not have British Parents and did not grow up in the UK.

But I did grow up in Post WW2 USA and it was a time of mass migration. During my school years, the foreign grown kids were the most likely to join gangs. I did not know of any American gangs but nationalistic gangs flourished. there were German gangs, Italian gangs, Spanish gangs, Polish gangs, Japanese gangs, etc.

I suspect it was because of the language differences and kids wanted to be with kids that spoke the same language.
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Re.TiReD
12-22-2008, 05:47 PM
(Bear in mind I'm talking from my experience only, I'm not saying all families are like this, I live in a itsy bitsy town, things may be diff elsewhere)

Not that they wont be taught morals, the moderation was my main part.
Basically the one who doesnt know the dangers will not attempt to protect his/her children from it.

Putting it simply.

You seem to have extracted more from what I said than I have.

WassalamuAlaykum
Reply

Muezzin
12-22-2008, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud
(Bear in mind I'm talking from my experience only, I'm not saying all families are like this, I live in a itsy bitsy town, things may be diff elsewhere)

Not that they wont be taught morals, the moderation was my main part.
Basically the one who doesnt know the dangers will not attempt to protect his/her children from it.

Putting it simply.
Ah.

So either they don't attempt to protect their children out of cultural ignorance, or they overprotect them for the same reason?

You seem to have extracted more from what I said than I have.
My apologies.
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Woodrow
12-22-2008, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud
(Bear in mind I'm talking from my experience only, I'm not saying all families are like this, I live in a itsy bitsy town, things may be diff elsewhere)

Not that they wont be taught morals, the moderation was my main part.
Basically the one who doesnt know the dangers will not attempt to protect his/her children from it.

Putting it simply.

You seem to have extracted more from what I said than I have.

WassalamuAlaykum
True

Basically the one who doesnt know the dangers will not attempt to protect his/her children from it.

Now your theory makes logic and is probably true.
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noorseeker
12-22-2008, 05:55 PM
I wont wrap my kids in cotton wool, inshallah when i have kids.

I,l talk to them straight, like how i do to my nieces, about life issues, why you musnt do certain things, and yeh give them a bit of freedom.

Take them with me to isha prayers in the summer when its like 11pm, that way they can say they stay up late, i used to hate going bed so early.

Round my ends, well lets say its got a bad reputation. I will show my kids , look at these gangs, and drug addicts, and show em not to go down that path.

Most of all have fun with them, i dont wana show em islam is boring. Inshallah
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highway_trekker
12-22-2008, 07:10 PM
I think its down to good parenting skills and that includes awareness of the environment in which your children live.
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Banu_Hashim
12-22-2008, 09:16 PM
Yeah it is down to good parenting, but at the same time if the parents are completely alienated from society, the same society that their kids spend so much of their time in, then that's where you have problems.
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Hamayun
12-22-2008, 09:26 PM
I am British but wasn't born here. My mum is British by birth. I was brought here by my parents 10 years ago.

I grew up in India and never followed Islam. I came to England and found myself drawn to Islam.

Don't know how I fit in this equation :?
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Ummu Sufyaan
12-23-2008, 07:34 AM
wa alykum us-Salaam
@sis amat...oh, i get you now :D
but parents (esp mums) still know what their kiddies are up to even though they arent necessarily fluent with english...right :skeleton: :exhausted

i know it would have been like that for me :p :D
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Sahabiyaat
12-23-2008, 12:11 PM
I feel sorry for my kids.

their not gna be able to get away with anything, cuz mummy knows all the tricks of the trade. :D
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crayon
12-23-2008, 12:44 PM
Since British born parents have gone through the difficulties that young muslims in the UK will experience, they have a better of idea of how to handle them and guide them, whereas parents born outside of the UK are not as aware of the different aspects of British society or how to deal with them in an appropriate manner.

I think that's what Amatul is trying to say?
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Re.TiReD
12-23-2008, 01:44 PM
Uh huh, but I said it in a roundabout 'it's nearly midnight and I'm sleepy' kind of way :-[ JazakAllah khayr
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