Hindu books from God too?

[Confused0122]

Salam.. I was on islamicboard and found a thread on how Zakir Naik answered a question in a very efficient manner. I clicked on the link and accidently closed the thread and now I can't find it.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGt9c...k-great-answer

If the Hindu scriptures prophesized Muhammad s.a.w., then were the Hindu scriptures also sent by Allah s.w.t? This might be a stupid question..

[جوري]

No!

I really don't know why Dr. Naik chooses to spread da3wa to the Hindus in my personal opinion I think he should stay as far away from them as possible.. whomever seeks the light of Allah swt, s/he shall find it, without all these acrobatics some scholars chose to subscribe to.. what is the point really, in using their scriptures to prove anything? these are people still praying to 'Laskshmi'
and think a poor unfortunate girl who was born fused with a parasitic twin is her re-incarnate.. do we honestly want to use those kinds of books to prove anything?

please give me a break.. I have respect for Dr. Naik, but I don't agree at all with what he is doing as far as Hindus are concerned...


and Allah swt knows best

:w:

[Hamayun]

I agree with sister Skye there. I respect Dr Naik for his knowledge of Islam but I was a bit disappointed to see him trying to find Islamic bits in the hindu scriptures...

[islamirama]

Dr Naik is a medical doctor trying to be Ahmad Deedat.

As for hindu scriptures mentioned anything about Mohammad (pbuh) or Islam is because they are a nation who will come on J-Day and deny their prophet. They like christians, full of polytheism, with only difference is that they went beyond the limits so much that they lost all the real scriptures but bits here n there.

http://www.islam4all.com/the_prophet...hindu_race.htm

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[Confused0122]

Sisters and Brother.
We should appreciate Dr. Zakir Naik and all that he does for his deen. As for staying away from Hindus as much as possible, they're human beings too. What are the Agnostic and Christian brothers going to think if they read this post? We are all siblings in humanity. Anyway, Hindus aren't going to drop their multiple gods all at once and just "believe." They need proof and Dr. Naik is doing whatever he can to bring the truth out and help the people out there. Just like you said, he is a doctor by profession. WE SHOULD APPRECIATE HIM EVEN MORE. He is a doctor and has memorized the Quran, Bible, Vedas and all those other religious scriptures and he cites them from memory! Mashallah! Alhamdulilah that we have a man like that in our Ummah, who does all that is within his control to spread the true deen. A HINDU WOMAN CONVERTED TO ISLAM. It shows that he isn't doing all this in vain after all... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kunkTOp6PwU

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Confused,

I believe in one God the creator of all that is seen and unseen, and when I walk through town I see a part of God’s wonderful creation. I see people who could be atheist, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, all kinds of people created by the same God, the same God hears all our prayers despite all our differences.

Surely we have a duty to care for all of God’s creation, and that comes down to caring for each other despite all our differences.

Religion causes us so many problems, the problem seems to rest on the fact that we cannot prove to each other that God exists. My proof for the existence of God rests on the Bible which you would not recognise.

Beyond a doubt I believe Christianity to be the one true faith, yet I sense this great sincerity of beliefs from people of many other faiths.

I sense in many ways that the same God has given each of us scriptures more for the purpose of striving to change ourselves, to seek justice for all people, to help the poor, to love our neighbours, despite all our differences.

In the spirit of praying for an inner peace that surpasses all understanding, in the spirit of praying for peace on Earth.

Eric

[Confused0122]

Peace be unto you Brother Eric,
I appreciate the fact that you decided to reply to my post. Believe it or not I actually do recognize the Bible.. Despite being born a Muslim, I have looked into other faiths. In the end, I have come back to Islam. I totally agree with all that you mentioned previously. Either way, all religions preach similar messages such as doing good deeds and helping the poor. At the end of the day, each Holy book is a guide which helps keep humans on track, and like you said, it promotes the same great ideas.

[Zamtsa]

I have read a book telling that Hindu was came from Christianity, so it is not weird when we say that only on the Vedas, not on other books of Hindu where we could find quotation about Rasulullah. Here's from his Vcd lecture:

Similarities Between Hinduism and Islam
________________________________________
Similarities Between Hinduism and Islam And Who Is The Son of Vishnuyash?



CHANDOGYA UPANISHAD

6 section 2 verse 1 "Itkam ivitittiam"


YAJUR VEDA

32 verse 3 "Natasia patima asti"


SHVETASHVATARA UPHANISHAD

Chapter 4 verse 19 "Natasia patima asti"

chapter 4 verse 20 "His form can not be seen, no one could see Him by eyes"

Chapter 6 verse 9 "Nacasia kasic, janita nacandipa"


BHAGAVAD GITA

Chapter 7 verse 20 "All those that their intellegence have been stolen by material desires and they worship the demigods"

Chapter 10 verse 3 "He who knows Me as the unbound, the supreme lord of all the worlds"


YAJUR VEDA

ch.40 verse 8 "imageless & pure"

ch.40 verse 9 "Andhatma pravishanti assambhuti mupaste"


RIG VEDA


Book I hymn 164 verse 46 "Itkamsat veprabahuda abhudante"

Book 8 hymn 1 vese 1 "mactaniti san sat"

Book 2 hymn I verse 3

Book 6 hymn 4 verse 16 "yat itke mustihi"

God being called Allah or ilah in book 2 hymn 1 verse 21, book 3 hymn 30 verse 10, book 9 hymn 67 verse 30

The world "Allah" derived from Al ilah means the only God and is one person one God, without lesser God right ?. Different with God, Gods, Goddess.


BRAHMA SUTRA

"itkam brahma dati anaste nehna naste kincen" means bhagwan ehihe dusra nehihe, nehihe nehihe sarabi nehihe"



ATHARVA VEDA

Book 20 hymn 58 verse 3 "Demaha ashi"

Rig Veda : song of praises
Yajur Veda: sacrificial formula
Sama Veda: melody
Atharva Veda: magical formula

18 Principles of Upanishad
Smriti (memory) or Dharma Sastra this is less authentic
Itihas (Epics) : Ramayana & Mahabarata
Bhishma Purwa 25-42 (the main idea)

Purana: About Deities that come on this world and the creation of the universe
I say "Allah did not ask Satan to witness the creation of the universe and He just ask his angels to carry some mission from Him"
"Jin were a name for creatures that God created from fire. While angels were all made from light, and they are free beings but created without 'nafsu' and they never transgress God's order and message."

While Devils usually come from Jin, although a lot of human being became Satan, Satan means "adversary of God".

And some people believed that angels are daughters of Allah. Angels are not "gendered creatures"

Jin do procreation. Angels created by Allah, without parents.



ATHARVA VEDA

Book 20 hymn 127 shloka 1-14. in these he was revered as Kuntupsuktas, Narashangsa, Kaurama
Muhammad means man of praise worthy, in English.
In this mantras he was called "a camel riding Mama Rishi" and waswesh Rebb.
No Brahma is allow to ride a camel, in Manusmriti ch.11 verse 102

Book 20 hymn 21 verse 6 : Abhandu. prophet Muhammad was an orphan.


BHAGAVAD PURANA

Parva 3 Khand 3 adhyay 3 Shloka 10-27: about musalaman, he will guide the people, they will eat lawful meat and will not eat pigs, they will circumcised (men and women), they will do ablution, they are not clean by herbs and shrubs but through warfare, they won't grow tail on their hair, they will grow beards.

Khand 1 Adhyay 3 Shloka 25; "A saviour will be born in Vishnuyash house". Vishnuyash has the same meaning with Abdullah (servant of Allah), right ?


KALKI PURANA

Ch.2 verse 4 "In the house of Vishnuyash, will be born Kalki Autar

Ch.2 verse 5 "He will along with his 4 companions". Abu Bakar, Umar, Utsman and Ali.

Ch.2 verse 7 "Will be help by angel in the battle field". Look at QS. (Qur'an Surat) 8:9 (ch.8 verse 9), 3:125

Ch.2 verse "In the house of Vishnuyash, in the womb of Summati Kalki Autar will be born "(Summati has the same meaning with Aminah) Aminah means the faithful one or the peaceful one
Ch.2 verse 15 "Will be born at the first half on month of Madhop". The last prophet was born at 12 Rabiul 'Awwal, right ?



I don't know in what scripture, but In Uttarachika mantra 1500, the words are "A medi wil be given eternal law". The people wrote this cannot understand Ahmad,because there is no word like that in Sanskrit. A medi means "I alone"



Islam : Peace obtained through submitting to the will of Allah (God who we worship).


RIG VEDA

Book 3 hymn 29 verse 4: about "ilaispad," Makkah is called "Darul Aman" means a safe place." Prathvi", and Makkah does lie in the center of the earth, in Middle East.


BHAGAVAD GITA

ch.4 verse 22, about Punarjanam "next life". Scholar of the Vedas said that there are no reincarnation mentioned anywhere at Vedas. So, that the next life means after doomsday


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

[Confused0122]

Jazak Allah brother, hopefully that clears things up for people.

[Amat Allah]

We should appreciate Dr. Zakir Naik and all that he does for his deen. As for staying away from Hindus as much as possible, they're human beings too. What are the Agnostic and Christian brothers going to think if they read this post? We are all siblings in humanity.

so true

[جوري]

Sisters and Brother.
We should appreciate Dr. Zakir Naik and all that he does for his deen. As for staying away from Hindus as much as possible, they're human beings too.

Aslaam 3lykoum wr wb
Dear sis..
I do believe that I wrote, I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Naik, I don't agree with his method and I still stand by my opinion.. To begin with, I don't want Islam to even be the subject of comparison which he unfortunately allows it to be when attempting what he does with their 'scriptures'

I have an unfavorable view of Hinduism and I don't believe their book is from God!.. It is a compilation of mythology, fairy tales and perhaps some borrowed excerpts from monotheistic faith.. after all Monotheism was the first faith.. I believe if any of them have a desire to let Ganesh, or Lakshmi or whomever else behind and find the straight path, it would be easy to do so.. we thinking, logical humans who weren't afflicted with diseases of the mind were given the ability to reason ( a gift from Allah swt), whether or not Dr. Naik gives it a nudge.. sometimes opening such a can of worms does more harm than good -- again my personal opinion

waslaam 3lykoum wr wb

[Confused0122]

Wow sister. That's fine it's your opinion. I still think you don't seem to understand that Hindus won't be willing to drop everything for a monotheistic religion. It's like the pagans when Islam came along. THey thought Mohammad s.a.w. was crazy for speaking of one God. How do you expect people to drop all those gods that they've always worshipped for one? What if a group of people came along preaching to you? I don't think you would convert unless they had sufficient proof. Just like that, brother Naik is doing all that he can to give proof to people and try to convert them.. If you think he should forget all that and just sit down and fiddle his thumbs then I'm sorry. we need someone as active as he is to address these issues. It's no wonder that we're not advancing.. Anyway sis, that's your personal opinion, and this is mine =)

[جوري]

Wow sister

waslaam 3lykoum wr wb

. That's fine it's your opinion.

It is indeed how I labeled it!

I still think you don't seem to understand that Hindus won't be willing to drop everything for a monotheistic religion.

In fact I understand it rather well!

It's like the pagans when Islam came along. THey thought Mohammad s.a.w. was crazy for speaking of one God.

indeed, but what was the mechanism by which they converted? Did the early Muslims take pagan scriptures and make stories where none existed?

How do you expect people to drop all those gods that they've always worshipped for one?

The same way many find their way to the straight path.. how did you do it? It isn't a birth right, it is a covenant that each thinking, reasoning individual has to make with Allah swt.

What if a group of people came along preaching to you?

I am not sure I understand what you mean by this?

I don't think you would convert unless they had sufficient proof.

I don't believe the glossiest pages or the best CD's is what converts people, you have to want houda and seek it, no one can force it upon you, least of which by twisting your own book-- does that work for you when others use Islam to make a case for themselves? for instance using suret Ad-Dukhan to make a case of how the Jews are above all? I have seen it done, I found it laughable!

Just like that, brother Naik is doing all that he can to give proof to people and try to convert them..

Again, I appreciate Dr. Naik, but his approach on this matter leaves very little to be desired.. I see what the Hindus out there are doing on the web based solely on his attempts!

If you think he should forget all that and just sit down and fiddle his thumbs then I'm sorry.

I think it is inappropriate for you to assume what it is I am thinking!
Have you read books By. Dr. Mustafa Al-Azami? I think that is a more practical and thorough approach to the subjects at hand and done in a very dignified manner befitting of Islam.. again, I think Dr. Naik is knowledgeable, I just don't like his approach.. I am allowed to hold an opinion without rebuke I hope?

we need someone as active as he is to address these issues. It's no wonder that we're not advancing.. Anyway sis, that's your personal opinion, and this is mine =)

Are we advancing with the efforts of Dr. Naik, in your personal opinion?

waslaam 3lykoum wr wb

[Confused0122]

Salam sister.
I don't mean to argue so I apologize if I came off as that. I know there are other scholars. Each one does what he can to bring others to the truth. That's all I'm acknowledging.

[جوري]

wa3lykoum aslaam wr wb

There is no need to apologize.. I am merely stating my opinion... I am not a holy man nor a scholar.. I am just expressing what it is I find to comport with Islamic teachings and mannerism.
I don't want Islam brought down to a low denominator to be made more approachable to folks who take it and throw it back in our face in the most insolent manner.. we don't need more Muslims, we need better Muslims.. we already stand at 1.8 billion.. none of us can stop what is going on in Gaza for instance.. my own cowardice today inhibited me from making a donation on line lest they halt it from reaching them or give me grief.. Astghfor Allah al3li il3atheem!

waslaam 3lykoum wr wb

[Confused0122]

Wa alaikum as salaam wa rahmatulahi wa barakatuhu,
I totally understand and agree that we don't need more Muslims, but rather better Muslims. I was just saying how each scholar tries his best to draw attention to Islam and educate people about the true message, not the misconceptions that usually represent Islam.. As for wanting people to convert, it's because we have a duty, and that is to make people aware of Islam, the rest lies up to the people and whether or not they want to embrace it. I understand what you are saying.

[themuffinman]

it is possible that they had a prophet from allah but just like the christians and jews they miscontruded his teachings. i mean allah did send down over one hundred thousand prophets and we only know of a few....

[UmmahFollower09]

Salaam to all.

I agree with the sister. What Dr. Zakir naik is doing is commendable and we should all be thankful for that. Like the sister sauid, if we were approached with a new religion that completly contradicts the one we have followed our entire lives..its pretty hard to accept without sufficient proof. It is our duty as Muslims to spread dawah and educate other people about Isam and that is what Dr.zakir naik is doing

Like the sister pointed out, we are all siblings of humanity

Jazakallah khairan

[Hamayun]

What Dr Naik is doing is commendable but we need not re-invent other scriptures to convert people.

I am very skeptical about the Hindu scriptures and do not believe they are related to Islam in any way...

[Snowflake]

I heard hindus are the deviants of Prophet Nuh's time. Allahu alim. Since every prophet reminded his people of the coming of the Prophet and Hindu scriptures have been written over thousands of years, that may be how Muhammad (saw) came to be mentioned in their books. (Hinduism isn't the source of one doctrine one but many beliefs - its source unknown.)

As for Dr. Zakir Naik, he brilliantly uses hindu/other books to refute their own corrupted and contradictory beliefs. This in turn illuminates the beauty, clarity and wisdom of Qur'anic teachings hence leading thousands of people to accept Islam as the Truth - the faultless Word of God. The man has Allah's blessings, MashaAllah!

[Muslim Woman]

I agree with sister Skye there. I respect Dr Naik for his knowledge of Islam but I was a bit disappointed to see him trying to find Islamic bits in the hindu scriptures...

with due respect , I beg to differ. Allah sent Prophets to all nations . So , surely someone came in to India ? I heard Dr. Zakir's lecture . He very nicely showed the similariities between Islam , Hinduism , Christianity etc. All holy books teach that God is one. It's the human being who are taking other deities besides Allah.

Also , it's our duty to spread the messages of Islam . As an Indian , Zakir's duty is to give the dawah to his Hindu neighbours. His debate with a Hindu leader Sri Sri Ravi Sankar was excellent .


If in future , India become a Muslim majority country , surely Zakir will deserve much credit :statisfie

[UmmahFollower09]

with due respect , I beg to differ. Allah sent Prophets to all nations . So , surely someone came in to India ? I heard Dr. Zakir's lecture . He very nicely showed the similariities between Islam , Hinduism , Christianity etc. All holy books teach that God is one. It's the human being who are taking other deities besides Allah.

Also , it's our duty to spread the messages of Islam . As an Indian , Zakir's duty is to give the dawah to his Hindu neighbours. His debate with a Hindu leader Sri Sri Ravi Sankar was excellent .


If in future , India become a Muslim majority country , surely Zakir will deserve much credit :statisfie

Well said sister =]

[Amat Allah]

Bismellah wa Tawakalna Ala Allah...
all praise and Glory be to Allah...

And remember he is a scholar and he has a well knowledge of Quraan sunnah and Allah`s religion rullings...

who r we to judge ???

saying lies to the others to make them embrace Islam is haraam and I think Dr Zakir allready knew haraam from halaal and he would never do this...

it is never acceptable in Islam to try to accomplish some good by doing something haram (forbidden). It is never, ever possible to spread Islam by lying or using deceptive practices.

when scholars want to talk about something in Deen they never say it but after lot of studies and revisions based on The Quraan and Sunnah...

"O you who believe, fear Allah and keep your duty to Him and always speak the truth."
Quran [33:69]

"Whoever attributes to me something that I did not say, let him reserve his seat in the Hellfire."
- prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.


and yes forgot to say...


Allah says:

[107] And We have sent you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) not but as a mercy for the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)."

surat Al Anbiyaa

[28] And We have not sent you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most of men know not."

Surat Saba`a

so hindo jewish christian jini human whatever Islam is the religion of mercy and Islam is for everyone and everything even animals and plants...

may Allah guide us all musilms and non muslims to the right path Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen

and Allah knows the best ...

[Umar001]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

What I find amazing is that no one has posted any good reasons for him to stop.The following were kind of advanced:

1. Why preach to hindus who believe such and such is God...

Well you preach to mankind as a whole beacuse giving da'wah is important. Moreover, we give da'wah to Christians who thought God can be 100% God and 100% man. Moreover, what is the difference between these guys and the pagan arabs who took dates as Gods and then ate them when they were hungry? Did that stop the Prophet, salla Allah 'alayhi wa salam?

2. Should not try twist scripture to make islam fit in there.

I agree with that in any case, whether Hindu or Christian scripture, the question is, is Zakir Naik doing that? I do not know, mainly because I don't have knowledge of the scripture, but I do believe he does not intend to.

As for whether he is trying to be someone he is not, it is important to have role models from the good Muslims.

As for the original question then Allah knows best what was sent to Allah, it may be not sent by Allah but that some people collected older stories together and some truth got into there, somewhat like the Gospels in the Bible nowdays but in a much older way.

Some of the books which Allah has revealed are known by name, some are not but they are known by general terms Allah knows best if in Islam we can believe the likes as above, but we do believe in whatever God has sent down.

And Allah knows best.

Br.al-Habeshi

[Amat Allah]

what is the difference between these guys and the pagan arabs who took dates as Gods and then ate them when they were hungry? Did that stop the Prophet, salla Allah 'alayhi wa salam?

true

[جوري]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

What I find amazing is that no one has posted any good reasons for him to stop.The following were kind of advanced:

And Allah knows best.

Br.al-Habeshi

:sl:

I suppose because there is NO GOOD REASON for him to stop?.. I believe, if folks would stop to read all that was written, they'd see the objection is to using their scriptures as a prelude to Islam.. and I myself have used the example often used by Jews to justify their occupation using suret Ad dukhan specifically:

وَلَقَدْ نَجَّيْنَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ الْمُهِينِ {30}

[Pickthal 44:30] And We delivered the Children of Israel from the shameful doom;

مِن فِرْعَوْنَ إِنَّهُ كَانَ عَالِيًا مِّنَ الْمُسْرِفِينَ {31}

[Pickthal 44:31] (We delivered them) from Pharaoh. Lo! he was a tyrant of the wanton ones.

وَلَقَدِ اخْتَرْنَاهُمْ عَلَى عِلْمٍ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ {32}

[Pickthal 44:32] And We chose them, purposely, above (all) creatures.

I have seen it done in Jewish compositions, how 'even the Quran chose them above all' How they are entitled to Palestine-- I am sure in their own mind they believe it to be true, why else would they do it?

Do you personally understand this verse to mean what Jews construe?

That is basically what is wrong with using other people's scriptures to make a point for yours.

He should in my humble opinion refute their book based on what is in it, not with how it compares to Islamic theology.

Hinduism as per dictionary: A body of religious and philosophical beliefs and cultural practices native to India and based on a caste system; it is characterized by a belief in reincarnation, by a belief in a supreme being of many forms and natures, by the view that opposing theories are aspects of one eternal truth, and by a desire for liberation from earthly evils.


Does the above sound remotely close to Islam?



Anyhow, I am done with this.. It is strange to me, when you express a different point of view to be met with so much rebuke and too many adjectives added to suppose a meaning not at all expressed in my writing.


:w:

[Umar001]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

:sl:

I suppose because there is NO GOOD REASON for him to stop?.. I believe, if folks would stop to read all that was written, they'd see the objection is to using their scriptures as a prelude to Islam..

Wa 'Alaykum Salam Wa Rahamtullahi Wa Barakatuh Sister,

Well it appears that you had more than one thing to say, in the first post you mentioned that

I really don't know why Dr. Naik chooses to spread da3wa to the Hindus in my personal opinion I think he should stay as far away from them as possible..

That point there is what I was speaking about, now in your later posts you mention another point, i.e.

I do believe that I wrote, I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Naik, I don't agree with his method and I still stand by my opinion...

So I was just against the general point of not making da'wah to Hindus, whilst the second point about the method he uses, I didn't touch on that at all, it's a different point altogether.

So I guess we are now in agreement if you think there is NO GOOD REASON for him to stop as opposed to staying away from Hindus in terms of da'wah.

We only disagree as to how it should be done I guess. So I am glad we have overcome that step, *smiles*

Hinduism as per dictionary: A body of religious and philosophical beliefs and cultural practices native to India and based on a caste system; it is characterized by a belief in reincarnation, by a belief in a supreme being of many forms and natures, by the view that opposing theories are aspects of one eternal truth, and by a desire for liberation from earthly evils.


Does the above sound remotely close to Islam?

I don't get what point at all it makes. Does the idea of a God who is three but then also one, who turned in to a human being and came from a woman who then had to die and be killed by his creation in order to be able to forgive sound similar to Islam? Nope. But I still would point out the similarities and the differences.

If I find that a religion says worship one God, I may be inclined to point that out to the followers before I show differences.

Anyhow we are in agreement, and the thread was only about whether the Hindu books were from Allaah. Sorry Original Poster for getting carried away in your thread.

Br.al-Habeshi

[Confused0122]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,



Wa 'Alaykum Salam Wa Rahamtullahi Wa Barakatuh Sister,

Well it appears that you had more than one thing to say, in the first post you mentioned that

That point there is what I was speaking about, now in your later posts you mention another point, i.e.

So I was just against the general point of not making da'wah to Hindus, whilst the second point about the method he uses, I didn't touch on that at all, it's a different point altogether.

So I guess we are now in agreement if you think there is NO GOOD REASON for him to stop as opposed to staying away from Hindus in terms of da'wah.

We only disagree as to how it should be done I guess. So I am glad we have overcome that step, *smiles*



I don't get what point at all it makes. Does the idea of a God who is three but then also one, who turned in to a human being and came from a woman who then had to die and be killed by his creation in order to be able to forgive sound similar to Islam? Nope. But I still would point out the similarities and the differences.

If I find that a religion says worship one God, I may be inclined to point that out to the followers before I show differences.

Anyhow we are in agreement, and the thread was only about whether the Hindu books were from Allaah. Sorry Original Poster for getting carried away in your thread.

Br.al-Habeshi

Jazak Allah brother.. and it's alright =)

[جوري]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,[/B]

Wa 'Alaykum Salam Wa Rahamtullahi Wa Barakatuh Sister,

wa3lykoum aslaam wr wb

Well it appears that you had more than one thing to say, in the first post you mentioned that

It would help indeed if you'd quote the entire sentence, which ends with
whomever seeks the light of Allah swt, s/he shall find it, without all these acrobatics some scholars chose to subscribe to

That point there is what I was speaking about, now in your later posts you mention another point, i.e.

Indeed I have maintained that I have respect for the man though I don't agree with his methods!

So I was just against the general point of not making da'wah to Hindus, whilst the second point about the method he uses, I didn't touch on that at all, it's a different point altogether.

he shouldn't give dua3wa if the end result is a thousand islamphobic website by Hindus refuting what he is doing further go on to Insult Islam, Muslims, the prophet and Allah swt.. I need not bring them to this website for you, you merely need to search the web or youtube on the related subject to find out exactly what it is I am talking about!

So I guess we are now in agreement if you think there is NO GOOD REASON for him to stop as opposed to staying away from Hindus in terms of da'wah.

I think he should broach the matter completely differently, he needs to regroup and really think of the end result.. I'd love to see some numbers of how many Hindus converted after seeing the light of how their scriptures 'prophecized' the coming of Mohammed (p)-- at the end of the day, that is what it really comes down to!

We only disagree as to how it should be done I guess. So I am glad we have overcome that step, *smiles*

So you think what he is doing is ok?

I don't get what point at all it makes. Does the idea of a God who is three but then also one, who turned in to a human being and came from a woman who then had to die and be killed by his creation in order to be able to forgive sound similar to Islam? Nope. But I still would point out the similarities and the differences.

Another method that could potentially come and bite one in the @$$.. how many times have you seen Muslims use 'Mohammed mentioned in other scriptures' and what did the Christians comes and do with it? to be frank with you, the bible is its own biggest contradictions.. there really is no point in forcing folks to see something in their books they refuse to, but there is a huge advantage in showing them how erroneous their beliefs based on their own books.. again in my humble opinion!

If I find that a religion says worship one God, I may be inclined to point that out to the followers before I show differences.

Does 'a belief in a supreme being of many forms and natures' allude to 'one God'? again in my humble opinion NO!
Hinduism is wrought with nonsense, any which can possibly make for fertile grounds for a good theological debate.. I don't AT ALL agree with making Islam and object of similarity or comparison with Hinduism, the very thought makes me extremely angry, If I didn't know for a fact his intentions are good, I'd be very upset with him questioning what he hopes to gain with this mockery!

Anyhow we are in agreement, and the thread was only about whether the Hindu books were from Allaah. Sorry Original Poster for getting carried away in your thread.

Br.al-Habeshi

Indeed on some points but not all.. I believe I gave my reply as per regard to original Q... No Hindu epic tales aren't from God, no point in looking there for something that doesn't exist.. If it did, I am sure Hindus would be the first ones pointing it out..

waslaam 3lykoum wr wb :thankyou:

[Umar001]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

Since the topic is finished I thought I'd reply sister Confused.

wa3lykoum aslaam wr wb

It would help indeed if you'd quote the entire sentence, which ends with
whomever seeks the light of Allah swt, s/he shall find it, without all these acrobatics some scholars chose to subscribe to

Even if I add that to the part I quoted it still the same:

I really don't know why Dr. Naik chooses to spread da3wa to the Hindus in my personal opinion I think he should stay as far away from them as possible.. whomever seeks the light of Allah swt, s/he shall find it, without all these acrobatics some scholars chose to subscribe to..

It is still saying he should not give da'wah, and the reason being, whoever seeks the light of Allah swt will find it. That is not a reason for not giving da'wah. If Allah did not use people people to give me da'wah then I wonder whether I would be a Muslim. The way I am understanding that statement is like saying, don't go working, whatever is written as provision will be for you, I am hoping you didn't mean it like that.

he shouldn't give dua3wa if the end result is a thousand islamphobic website by Hindus refuting what he is doing further go on to Insult Islam, Muslims, the prophet and Allah swt.. I need not bring them to this website for you, you merely need to search the web or youtube on the related subject to find out exactly what it is I am talking about!

Again I don't understand how possibly this is a point, maybe you mean he shouldn't give dua3wa in that way... But giving da'wah should be done, are we gonna stop calling people to Islam because some Kuffar are going to curse Allah?

As for the statistics, I think more people are impressed and have greater confidence in Islam due to Zakir Naik than the people who dislike him.

So you think what he is doing is ok?

Do I think giving da'wah by showing similarities and differences is ok? It depends on the time, audience, etc, but I don't see why it would not be. I don't study him so I don't know every detail of his debates/dialogues, thus I am not really here saying Zakir Naik is this or that, I am just saying that I was suprised at the statements made.

Another method that could potentially come and bite one in the @$$.. how many times have you seen Muslims use 'Mohammed mentioned in other scriptures' and what did the Christians comes and do with it? to be frank with you, the bible is its own biggest contradictions.. there really is no point in forcing folks to see something in their books they refuse to, but there is a huge advantage in showing them how erroneous their beliefs based on their own books.. again in my humble opinion!

To be honest with you sister, I have seen people talk about Miracles of the Qur'an which in the end they looked silly. This doesn't make me think the topic is wrong, only that the speaker needs more knowledge.

It depends on the person, I was interested to find the claims that Muhammad was spoken of in the Bible as a Christian.

Does 'a belief in a supreme being of many forms and natures' allude to 'one God'? again in my humble opinion NO!
Hinduism is wrought with nonsense, any which can possibly make for fertile grounds for a good theological debate.. I don't AT ALL agree with making Islam and object of similarity or comparison with Hinduism, the very thought makes me extremely angry, If I didn't know for a fact his intentions are good, I'd be very upset with him questioning what he hopes to gain with this mockery!

Again, I don't think that Zakir Naik is saying Islam and the Hindu Scriptures are similar in that. Rather, from what I recall of one of his lectures on this, he spoke about there being nothing like God, a statement taken from Hindu scriptures. Now, I cannot object to that statement. I don't think he has stated that Hinduism is NOW the same as Islam, otherwise there would be no need to give da'wah.

But just like to study with Christianity, looking at what Jesus might have said etc, he may like to do that with the Hindu Scriptures, and show possible references to the true God and Muhammad after having taken away the rubbish, just like I don't think a Father who rests and gets refreshed is anything like Allah, yet I do think that the Jews had an original scripture which they changed, and if I can find evidence for that then I will show them that.

I really don't see a problem with that.

Br.al-Habeshi

[doorster]

I really don't know why Dr. Naik chooses to spread da3wa to the Hindus in my personal opinion I think he should stay as far away from them as possible.. whomever seeks the light of Allah swt, s/he shall find it, without all these acrobatics some scholars chose to subscribe to..

I do not think he is really allowed to, I remember one of his venues in Chenai, India where Brothers Estes, Philips and Imaam Dr. Jafar Idris were guest speakers. After their speeches and Q & A session, a Western non-Muslim man wanted to say shahadat and almost caused himself to be arrested, and eventually became a Muslim upon his return to his home country.

He, like Ahmad Deedat -- who was managed like a prize fighter -- has caused much resentment and insults to Islam during many of his lectures.

after you humiliate people and their forefathers by proving them stupid, you alienate them and cause them to retaliate. Real life is NOT like an internet forum (where one can only get rid of a problem poster by exposing his lies) In real life you change people by making them like you and Islam by showing what is good about you and your religion and scripture.

No matter what prophesy he and Deedat saw about Hazrat Muhammad the Last Nabi and Rasul in kafir or any other Mushrik book. makes no difference to its believer for he already has a different understanding of it.

So Stop using kafir books to prove truth of Islam, Quraan and Saheeh Sunnat is Enough

I like much of his written work but hate his verbal wrestling matches (which no doubt wow the entertainment starved crowds but only manage to sicken me!)
:w:

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

If you believe it is ok for Dr. Naik to give Da’wah, then it also makes it ok for Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and all others to do the same. The bottom line is we are all out trying to change other people, but seem to overlook the greater need to change ourselves.

I like the saying spread the Gospels, but only use words as a last resort. This means people should recognise your faith through your actions in your daily life.

I have heard Dr Naik speak a number of times and he is certainly very clever. However I feel many of you here on this forum put across Islam in a greater way than Dr. Naik, simply by saying how Islam influences and changes your own lives.

In the spirit of praying to one God,

Eric

[tbm2000]

What is the idealogical difference between Christianity and Islam?

[doorster]

What is the idealogical difference between Christianity and Islam?

hello,

I think first and foremost is oneness of The God. We believe in one single none shape shifting, self-sufficient deity, outside of his creation, whereas (to my understanding) my Christian Brethren have 3 in 1, and he can be born of a woman,can die, can feel pain, get confused and feel hunger etc.

:peace:
112:1. say: He is The God, the one and Only;
112:2. The God, the Eternal, Absolute; ("Allâh-us-Samad (the Self-Sufficient master, whom All creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
112:3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
112:4. and there is none like unto Him.

[tbm2000]

Ok. But what does that mean as far as the interpretation of God's word?

[doorster]

Ok. But what does that mean as far as the interpretation of God's word?

I do not know how to answer that because:
There is not enough info in the above sentence for me to see where you stand nor are there enough posts by you to enable me to form a picture in my head.

anyhow, what is The God's word for me is outright blasphemy in Christianity and vice versa

:peace:

[tbm2000]

I am asking how does the the oneness as opposed to the 3 in 1 affect message of God. As far as I know Christian believe in one true God

[doorster]

I am asking how does the the oneness as opposed to the 3 in 1 affect message of God. As far as I know Christian believe in one true God

okay! fair enough, I'll have to wait for Br. Woodrow to come online, then I shall, The God willing, formulate an answer with his help.

:peace:

[tbm2000]

Thank you. I just am very uninformed about the differences.

[doorster]

You are most welcome!

5:48"And We have sent down to you the Book (Quran) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it , and guarding it In safety: . So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ."

http://islamawakened.com/Quran/5/48/

[جوري]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,



Even if I add that to the part I quoted it still the same:

I really don't know why Dr. Naik chooses to spread da3wa to the Hindus in my personal opinion I think he should stay as far away from them as possible.. whomever seeks the light of Allah swt, s/he shall find it, without all these acrobatics some scholars chose to subscribe to..

It is still saying he should not give da'wah, and the reason being, whoever seeks the light of Allah swt will find it. That is not a reason for not giving da'wah. If Allah did not use people people to give me da'wah then I wonder whether I would be a Muslim. The way I am understanding that statement is like saying, don't go working, whatever is written as provision will be for you, I am hoping you didn't mean it like that.

I think every post I have written thus far is replete with what I meant, even if I didn't explain it repeatedly prior to your chosen quote? I don't think he should give them da3wa, I think he is going about it all wrong! (Yes-My opinion)

Again I don't understand how possibly this is a point, maybe you mean he shouldn't give dua3wa in that way... But giving da'wah should be done, are we gonna stop calling people to Islam because some Kuffar are going to curse Allah?

Though I don't have the hadith handy, indeed, you shouldn't put yourself in a situation by which allowing kuffar to make Allah swt an object of their degradation!

As for the statistics, I think more people are impressed and have greater confidence in Islam due to Zakir Naik than the people who dislike him.

And with all due respect, thought isn't a number.. you'll obviously encounter positive things, given your own point of view and what you see. I don't know personally the numbers to speak with like bravado.. I am curious, as to whether it is worth it, hundreds of insulting websites and sketches on youtube. It was a genuine question!

Do I think giving da'wah by showing similarities and differences is ok? It depends on the time, audience, etc, but I don't see why it would not be. I don't study him so I don't know every detail of his debates/dialogues, thus I am not really here saying Zakir Naik is this or that, I am just saying that I was suprised at the statements made.

Sometimes other people's opinions are surprising indeed.. I don't know why that elicits such a gore like reaction, not from your personally but in general -- I am not going to change my point of view, because the town's folks came after me in a tight net and forgo reason!

To be honest with you sister, I have seen people talk about Miracles of the Qur'an which in the end they looked silly. This doesn't make me think the topic is wrong, only that the speaker needs more knowledge.

I do agree with you there, and I can see why they behave as they do, but in the process, the Quran is its own testament, not forged understanding of pagan text!

It depends on the person, I was interested to find the claims that Muhammad was spoken of in the Bible as a Christian.

and was that genuinely what made you convert? irregardless of the subject matter of our topic?

Again, I don't think that Zakir Naik is saying Islam and the Hindu Scriptures are similar in that. Rather, from what I recall of one of his lectures on this, he spoke about there being nothing like God, a statement taken from Hindu scriptures. Now, I cannot object to that statement. I don't think he has stated that Hinduism is NOW the same as Islam, otherwise there would be no need to give da'wah.

My understanding of the few quotes written
1- finding similarities between Islam and Hinduism
2-Predictions of the prophet Mohamed in Hindu text

if that is not the case then my humble apologies..
I don't have a favorable opinion of Hinduism (I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR THAT) and I don't want it to be made subject of comparison with Islam.
forgive me, but folks who bathe in cow dung as religious ceremony to me seems at best a diametrical opposite of what Islam is on the most basic level.

But just like to study with Christianity, looking at what Jesus might have said etc, he may like to do that with the Hindu Scriptures, and show possible references to the true God and Muhammad after having taken away the rubbish, just like I don't think a Father who rests and gets refreshed is anything like Allah, yet I do think that the Jews had an original scripture which they changed, and if I can find evidence for that then I will show them that.

Even still, at least if you look at Judeo/Christian scriptures, there is some remnant of 'kutub samawaya' as they are indeed people of the book. Not the case with Hinduism.. else why are they not mentioned too as 'people of the book?'

I really don't see a problem with that.

Br.al-Habeshi

Jazaka Allah khyran
:w:

[BlackMamba]

Well about the whole finding similarities argument, the Quran tells us to do it when giving Da'wah in surah Ali-Imran.
Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah. that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah.s Will). (3:64)

Zakir Naik ALWAYS quotes this ayah to tell the audience why he is giving da'wah that way. He is coming to common terms.

[doorster]

Well about the whole finding similarities argument, the Quran tells us to do it when giving Da'wah in surah Ali-Imran.
Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah. that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah.s Will). (3:64)

Zakir Naik ALWAYS quotes this ayah to tell the audience why he is giving da'wah that way. He is coming to common terms.

who is defined as people of the book? mushriks? okay thanks that is news to me

I always understood it as follows:
3: 64. Say (to Jews and Christians, O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture: come to a word that is just between us and you, that we Worship none but The (one) God, and that we associate no partners with him, and that none of us shall take others as lords (e.g. monkeys, cows, calfs, shiva lingum and saints etc.) besides Allâh [The (one) God]. then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."

[Banu_Hashim]

we don't need more Muslims, we need better Muslims

:sl:
Yep, that's the truth of it.
:w:

[BlackMamba]

who is defined as people of the book? mushriks? okay thanks that is news to me

I always understood it as follows:
3: 64. Say (to Jews and Christians, O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture: come to a word that is just between us and you, that we Worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with him, and that none of us shall take others as lords (e.g. monkeys, cows, shiva lingum etc.) besides Allâh. then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."

Okay I agree with you that this ayah a talking about the People of the Book. But why can't the same logic be applied when giving dawah to Hindus. And by the way christians are mushriks they associate partners with Allah. (5:72-73)

[Zamtsa]

Jazak Allah brother, hopefully that clears things up for people.

wa fiikum barakaallah. Na'am.