Your Opinion on Israel

[Ro4Unity]

My dear brothers and sisters - regardless your religion,

Israel is always -and has always been- a very sensitive topic, now more than ever. It is especially an emotional topic since it is related to religion.

I am very curious to hear what your opinion is about Israel, and what the best solution would be according to you.

Do you think Israel has the right to exist (If yes, in what form?) Would you agree with the existence of Israel if the UN resolutions are respected and no new settlements are made? If you don't want a Jewish state at all, do you think the Jews should be able to stay where they are? or should they go 'back'? or should they have a special place within palestine?

I believe in 2 possible options:
- 2 new sovereign countries which are respected by both sides, a Jewish Israel and a state of Palestine, according to the 1948 border resolution.
- 1 new secular state of Palestine in which Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze and Atheists can live together, and maybe with special administrative areas meant for certain groups (I prefer this one)

I am aware that there might be a lot anger due to the recent Israeli attacks, but nonetheless I hope you can give me your honest answer.
:thankyou:

[IslamicRevival]

Ya Allah,may you bless your believers, your men,women and children.

May you make them stronger in light of the incoming aggression,stronger in terms of faith and strongest in duration of faith.

Ya Allah,may you bless your believers; your men,women and children.

May you instill fear into the hearts of every Israeli,of every Zionist and of every nonbeliever whom goes against your words.

May your wrath come upon the Zionists of Israel whom take your name in vain and use it to spread mischief upon the earth.

Allah,you are closer to us than our jugular vein; you are closer to our men than any iota,than any fragment on this earth.

May they place their faith in you and may their weaponry cause the people of Israel to fall to their knees in fear.

Torment those who kill and murder our people,Oh Allah.

Torment them until the air they have stolen from our children is ripped from their throats.

Oh Allah,push their tanks into the seas and let the earth swallow their military into the depths of the earth.

Oh Allah give us patience,give us patience in a time where we are indeed being tried.

Oh Allah,you are the most merciful - have mercy on our people.

Oh Allah,Ya Allah - You are the greatest and to you we return.

Allahu Akbar,Allahu Akbar.

Oh Ya Allah - you are the greatest.

[AntiKarateKid]

I think there is a very simple answer to this.

1. Israel is against the Torah because the vast majority of Jews (except Messianics which arent even mainstream) believe that they are an exiled people who can only establish a state when their mosiach comes. They rejected Jesus long ago so they missed the boat on that. So in essence they are still exiled and forbidden, according to the Torah and prominent Rabbis throughout history, to establish Israel.

2. So if they dont have a religious reason, what else? The concept of a Jewish nation??? The Jews in ISrael are largely from Europe who have absolutely no common descent with the arab Jews who lived in the land for millenia.

So, they cant claim Israel on religious grounds, or racial grounds, so what is there? Nothing. They should dismantle the state and live side by side with the other INDIGENOUS people of the land. They have done this for centuries and it worked out fine.


Simply it should not exist. The real question is, how to dismantle it.

[Whatsthepoint]

It shouldn't have been created in the first place but since it's managed to hold on over 60 years I think it should be allowed to go on and defend itself if necessary.
Resistance is completely legitimate however for the time being futile and unwise.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[The_Prince]

my opinion, Israel has no right to exist, they must be destroyed.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

You are right the prince..Israel has zero right to exist. InshaAllah with the help of Allah(SWT) he will give us victory over them. Israel will be defeated and they will run and hide as the prophecy said.

[AntiKarateKid]

It shouldn't have been created in the first place but since it's managed to hold on over 60 years I think it should be allowed to go on and defend itself if necessary.
Resistance is completely legitimate however for the time being futile and unwise.

Your logic makes no sense. Would you let a robber get away with theft if he managed to hold on to the stolen goods for 60 years??? That idea is laughable.

[Ro4Unity]

my opinion, Israel has no right to exist, they must be destroyed.

What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

[Intisar]

What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

Like br. AntiKaratekid said, they are not indigenous to the land, they literally pushed out of all the Palestinians who are the real inhabitants. And they are still killing them by the hundreds to this day. Some of them migrated from their homelands, because they believed that Israel is a jewish state and that should be their home. The real question should be, what about the Palestinians?

Why must the zionists always play the victim?

[Ro4Unity]

Like br. AntiKaratekid said, they are not indigenous to the land, they literally pushed out of all the Palestinians who are the real inhabitants. And they are still killing them by the hundreds to this day. Some of them migrated from their homelands, because they believed that Israel is a jewish state and that should be their home. The real question should be, what about the Palestinians?

Why must the zionists always play the victim?

Zionist Extremism is not to be justified in any way. But please don't forget that there are victims on both sides. Most Jews are born in Israel instead of abroad. Some Jews originate from countries where they aren't allowed/safe today (think of Iran, Iraq, etc.) Some jews are only jews by name and are actually atheist. To make a long story short: Many 'Israeli's' are in Israel because they know nothing better than being there as in their homeland. They can't help that they are born there.

Would it be acceptable for you if Israel ceases to exist and becomes palestine, and the jewish people stay?

[Trumble]

I believe in 2 possible options:
- 2 new sovereign countries which are respected by both sides, a Jewish Israel and a state of Palestine, according to the 1948 border resolution.
- 1 new secular state of Palestine in which Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze and Atheists can live together, and maybe with special administrative areas meant for certain groups (I prefer this one)

The first option, although using the pre 1967 borders rather than the 1948 ones. On grounds of practicality if nothing else, the second could never be made to work except in the imagination.

Your logic makes no sense. Would you let a robber get away with theft if he managed to hold on to the stolen goods for 60 years??? That idea is laughable.

The only thing laughable is your metaphor. Israel has every 'right' to exist, because the people who live in it, indigenous or not (and most were born there and so are), want it to. Amazingly enough, just about every nation state on the planet exists for much the same reason.

[Ro4Unity]

The only thing laughable is your metaphor. Israel has every 'right' to exist, because the people who live in it, indigenous or not (and most were born there and so are), want it to. Amazingly enough, just about every nation state on the planet exists for much the same reason.

This the same way I think... We are all born somewhere, and we are all humans. It is not right to hold all Jewish citizens responsible for the attacks. It is equally unfair as blaming all germans for the holocaust or all muslims for 9/11.

Imagine this: There is an illegitimate muslim state somewhere, stolen from other people, and you are born amongst the "oppressors". How would you feel to be kicked out of there to a strange country you don't know of?

:sl:

[AntiKarateKid]

What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

They should learn their lesson and stop being racial supremacists. A one state solution will be in place then that grants equality.

[Ro4Unity]

They should learn their lesson and stop being racial supremacists. A one state solution will be in place then that grants equality.

I think that'd be fair enough.

[AntiKarateKid]

The first option, although using the pre 1967 borders rather than the 1948 ones. On grounds of practicality if nothing else, the second could never be made to work except in the imagination.



The only thing laughable is your metaphor. Israel has every 'right' to exist, because the people who live in it, indigenous or not (and most were born there and so are), want it to. Amazingly enough, just about every nation state on the planet exists for much the same reason.

Trumble trumble trumble, tomorow I will forcibly kick you out of your house. After that, if you so much as raise your voice, I will blow you back to the stone age. Seem fair? You and Israel do.

Your "defense" of israel turns a blind eye to the holes in its argument to exist. They have to religious basis, no ethnic basis ( most of the population emigrated to there), and you should stop hissing and spitting and realize that.

[Keltoi]

At this point Israel as much right to exist as any other country in the region. From Israel's perspective, the challenges to its right to exist are exactly why violence is necessary.

[AntiKarateKid]

At this point Israel as much right to exist as any other country in the region. From Israel's perspective, the challenges to its right to exist are exactly why violence is necessary.

And why is that? Does time make anything more moral? A kidnapped child is no more the child of the kidnapper whether 1 year has passed or 100. It is still stolen.

[Keltoi]

And why is that? Does time make anything more moral? A kidnapped child is no more the child of the kidnapper whether 1 year has passed or 100. It is still stolen.

The Israelis could also state that the land was stolen from them in the past. Any statement of who is "right or wrong" in this conflict on the basis of land ownership is faulty. It depends entirely on one's point of view.

In any case, Israel isn't going anywhere. Facing that reality is the first step towards peace.

[Ro4Unity]

And why is that? Does time make anything more moral? A kidnapped child is no more the child of the kidnapper whether 1 year has passed or 100. It is still stolen.

AntiKarateKid, I have two question for you.
1) You'd opt for an independent Palestinian state, how do you think this must be acheived?
2) Do you think the occupation of Palestine by Israel is worse than the occupation of Western-Sahara by Morocco, in which also many Saharwis have been killed and forced to flee, a huge fence/wall has been built on the border, etc.?

[Chuck]

Why such a big issue over land?

[Intisar]

Zionist Extremism is not to be justified in any way. But please don't forget that there are victims on both sides. Most Jews are born in Israel instead of abroad. Some Jews originate from countries where they aren't allowed/safe today (think of Iran, Iraq, etc.) Some jews are only jews by name and are actually atheist. To make a long story short: Many 'Israeli's' are in Israel because they know nothing better than being there as in their homeland. They can't help that they are born there.

Would it be acceptable for you if Israel ceases to exist and becomes palestine, and the jewish people stay?

Excuse me, it is not their ancestral homeland. They went there, from other countries, to build a land over an already existing one. What about the Palestinians?

The fact of the matter is, it is not their ancestral homeland, they came over and destroyed people's livelihoods. It would be one thing if they lived peacefully, side by side, but it's obvious that Israel doesn't want that. For God's sake they named it ''Israel'', and to them Palestine does not exist.

[Ro4Unity]

Excuse me, it is not their ancestral homeland. They went there, from other countries, to build a land over an already existing one. What about the Palestinians?

The fact of the matter is, it is not their ancestral homeland, they came over and destroyed people's livelihoods. It would be one thing if they lived peacefully, side by side, but it's obvious that Israel doesn't want that. For God's sake they named it ''Israel'', and to them Palestine does not exist.

Yes but you can't "group" people by their ancestry, it is about individuals. Every one is on it's own.

[themuffinman]

i think the problem at hand isnt isreal. its the muslim governed countries in the world. first we need to get rid of the current muslim "leaders"....err i mean lapdogs, from the saudi monarchy right down to the seculararist pakistani government ad establish a caliphate, then and only then can we erradicate isreal..

[IslamicRevival]

The solution to this whole problem would be for Israel to be wiped off the map.

There should be no such thing as "Israel"

This slaughter that is taking place RIGHT NOW is just sickening and makes my blood boil.

If only someone like George Galloway was In power! This man would make sure Palestine would be free of these terrorists Israeli thugs!

The situation which is going on now is Man V Machine!!

Palestinians being the defenceless "MAN" and the Israelis being the "MACHINES" With thier state of the art weapons!

Cowards Israel! If you want a war fight without the weapons! Fight without the fighter jets! Fight MAN TO MAN and Hamas will Destroy you!

[The_Prince]

What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

the good ole americans can help them out by assimilating them into the US, although i dont think Americans would like that, but hey, its not the Palestinians problem.

[The_Prince]

Why such a big issue over land?

because that land belongs to people, where they lived, made their living, and they were then kicked out, such as my grandparents, so dont talk nonsense saying whats the use of land? my father was born in a camp, and had to live with 7 siblings in a small one room house, sleeping on the floor, all because his parents were kicked out of their land and main home back in Palestine, and this is one of many millions. thanks to Allah my father worked very hard and has his own company now and can afford whatever he wishes, yet millions of others arent in this situation, and still live in the worst conditions due to their land being stolen from them.

when your land and home is stolen, and you see your familly greatly suffering then you will realize what it means and perhaps you wont make such a stupid comment again.

lastly, the prophet Muhammad himself taught that a Muslim can make JIHAD for his land that has been unjustly taken, so who the hell are you to come saying whats the use of land?

so whats the use of land? its my land, my father has never been able to see his own land, and his parents were kicked out illegally, thats the issue.

[Trumble]

Trumble trumble trumble, tomorow I will forcibly kick you out of your house. After that, if you so much as raise your voice, I will blow you back to the stone age. Seem fair? You and Israel do.

Your "defense" of israel turns a blind eye to the holes in its argument to exist. They have to religious basis, no ethnic basis ( most of the population emigrated to there), and you should stop hissing and spitting and realize that.

The reality you seem unwilling to face is that most of those who were kicked out of the 'house' are now dead, and that most of those now occupying it were born there. In the case of the majority of Jewish Israeli citizens it was their parents or grandparents who emigrated there, not those citizens themselves. As I said, other than the fact that the number of generations involved is different (and in many cases, not very different) exactly the same is true every other nation state.

[Ro4Unity]

The solution to this whole problem would be for Israel to be wiped off the map.

There should be no such thing as "Israel"

This slaughter that is taking place RIGHT NOW is just sickening and makes my blood boil.

If only someone like George Galloway was In power! This man would make sure Palestine would be free of these terrorists Israeli thugs!

The situation which is going on now is Man V Machine!!

Palestinians being the defenceless "MAN" and the Israelis being the "MACHINES" With thier state of the art weapons!

Cowards Israel! If you want a war fight without the weapons! Fight without the fighter jets! Fight MAN TO MAN and Hamas will Destroy you!

Well, please keep it peacefull will ya?

The only solution people.

What Israel does is not to be justified at all!! I agree 1000 times with that.
But killing people will never lead you to success, it never did. It never will.
Israel will not lead to victory with these bombs, neither will the palestinians succeed through violence.:cry: Think Ghandi:peace:

[themuffinman]

we are not followers of ghandi, our religion does not teach us to "suffer" peacefully. it teaches us to rise up and stop opression and use force if necessary, yes we do have peace only when we are truley free

[AntiKarateKid]

AntiKarateKid, I have two question for you.
1) You'd opt for an independent Palestinian state, how do you think this must be acheived?
2) Do you think the occupation of Palestine by Israel is worse than the occupation of Western-Sahara by Morocco, in which also many Saharwis have been killed and forced to flee, a huge fence/wall has been built on the border, etc.?

1. I am talking about what is moral solution. A feasible solution is an entirely different question. I am just talking about what is right and wrong.

2. Sorry I am not familiar with that situation so I dont think I can really comment. But injustice is injustice first of all. By Israel using religion to legitimize its claim, it brings the conflict to a higher level because many jews dont agree.

[Ro4Unity]

we are not followers of ghandi, our religion does not teach us to "suffer" peacefully. it teaches us to rise up and stop opression and use force if necessary, yes we do have peace only when we are truley free

I respect your religion, but I was just pointing out that violence has never been successful.. at last. Btw, don't forget that your religion emphasises peace towards other peaceful people, and 80% of the Israelis are peaceful.

[AntiKarateKid]

The reality you seem unwilling to face is that most of those who were kicked out of the 'house' are now dead, and that most of those now occupying it were born there. In the case of the majority of Jewish Israeli citizens it was their parents or grandparents who emigrated there, not those citizens themselves. As I said, other than the fact that the number of generations involved is different (and in many cases, not very different) exactly the same is true every other nation state.

IF they arent there illegally, only their parents, THen those who are born there should make a one state solution with the OTHER people who were born there or whos families were forced out so they could live there.

[S_87]

israel should be wiped off the map...no peace with them/ no two state solution. May Allah destroy Israel and send terror onto them and give them what they deserve.

[AntiKarateKid]

I respect your religion, but I was just pointing out that violence has never been successful.. at last. Btw, don't forget that your religion emphasises peace towards other peaceful people, and 80% of the Israelis are peaceful.

Being peaceful but refusing to give back land is passive aggression. Nevertheless, a peaceful solution is top priority but i fear violence is inevitable. You should see the youtube videos of the israeli children and women abusing the Palestinians and aid workers

[Chuck]

i will make a dua tonight for you, that Allah takes your home away from you, your familly, your loved ones, and all your livelyhood and theirs is taken away as a result, inshallah it happens so then you can feel the answer to your own silly Q.

I've already left my land and my family for my religion then Allah gave me better. Anyway, I didn't want to hurt your feelings with my question, better prayer is that Allah give you your land back, even better, Allah give you what is better, as Allah knows best.

Salam

[Chuck]

lastly, the prophet Muhammad himself taught that a Muslim can make JIHAD for his land that has been unjustly taken, so who the hell are you to come saying whats the use of land?

Imo, it is not as simple. First, Prophet (pbuh) migrated to a land where they could practice Islam safely, made a state, and focused on resolving social and educational issues. Not to mention, treat of hudaibiya was not the favorite decision taken by prophet (pbuh), many people were not happy with that treaty, but they Allah revealed what they think is defeat is a victory and Allah knows best.

[Banu_Hashim]

Make peace with Israel after they wipe out a significant proportion of the population of Gaza? Not too sure about that.

[Intisar]

Yes but you can't "group" people by their ancestry, it is about individuals. Every one is on it's own.

So why let them destroy people's livelihoods, you still haven't answered that question for me. :rolleyes:

Israel does not belong to them, they are not indigenous to that land, as much as they make it seem that way. They should be expelled from there, and the land should be given back to Palestine as it was before.

That's my opinion on Israel. :smile:

[Trumble]

Make peace with Israel after they wipe out a significant proportion of the population of Gaza? Not too sure about that.

It has to end somewhere. If there is no peace it is inevitable than an even larger proportion of the population of Gaza, and many more elsewhere, will be 'wiped out' as well.

Israel does not belong to them, they are not indigenous to that land, as much as they make it seem that way. They should be expelled from there, and the land should be given back to Palestine as it was before.

Most of them are indigenous, they were born there. That's why it 'seems' that way.

[Intisar]

It has to end somewhere. If there is no peace it is inevitable than an even larger proportion of the population of Gaza, and many more elsewhere, will be 'wiped out' as well.

Maybe it could stop when the zionists decide to stop killing people in Gaza by the hundreds, perhaps? I love how you play the devil's advocate, very cheeky. :rolleyes:

Israel broke the ceasefire, built settlements in areas that do not belong to them, and as I said a million times in this thread destroyed people's livelihoods. Pretty simple really.

[IslamicRevival]

The terrorists are using cluster bombs right NOW in an airstrike which can cause cancer!

This is just a disgrace! Just a disgrace!!

MUSLIM UMMAH WAKE UP!! STOP THESE ANIMALS! I LIVE IN HOPE!

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I think there is a very simple answer to this.

1. Israel is against the Torah because the vast majority of Jews (except Messianics which arent even mainstream) believe that they are an exiled people who can only establish a state when their mosiach comes. They rejected Jesus long ago so they missed the boat on that. So in essence they are still exiled and forbidden, according to the Torah and prominent Rabbis throughout history, to establish Israel.

i heard that the reason why the Israelis (or maybe it was the Americans) are at war with Palestine, is because some religious doctrine (again, i cant remember which one) orders some temple to be built on palestine..
is this what you mean?

israel should be wiped off the map...no peace with them/ no two state solution. May Allah destroy Israel and send terror onto them and give them what they deserve.

ditto!

[justahumane]

we are not followers of ghandi, our religion does not teach us to "suffer" peacefully. it teaches us to rise up and stop opression and use force if necessary, yes we do have peace only when we are truley free

Brother indeed Ur religion teaches U to fight the opperssors, but muslims have been violating the teachings of their religion for a long long time. ALLAH's command holds no value to muslims today. (Pl note I m talking about majority of muslims and not about all) . Surely this is the reason that why ALLAH has not been granting victory to them.

Now for the sake of millions of innocent lives, what is the big deal if these guys cant violate yet another principal of Islam and seek a peacefull solution? Only the thugs of Hamas will emerge as losers than.

So, will hawks here turn doves now for the sake of those innocent palestinian children, women, and for others? After all they are ur brother and sisters in Islam. When I can feel their sorrrow and pain after being a kafir, why cant U muslims?

[Thinker]

my opinion, Israel has no right to exist, they must be destroyed.

I believe Hamas hold the same view and I think that's what is exacerbating the current situation!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

israel is a state of pure oppression.

i want to see it go down and by the will of Allah it will

i also want to see anyone who supports it go down, and by the will of Allah they will

[Thinker]

As a complete outsider with no affiliation to either Palestinians or Jews they appear to be one and the same people. They look the same, many of their customs are the same and they share much of their history. From where I stand, Palestinians look like Jews who converted to Islam. So on that basis I believe they have equal rights to live in the land which was previously Canaan. In fact (niaive as it may sound) I believe they should unite and form one country and call it Canaan. I just can’t see how you can have a viable country where one part of the country is a small strip of land (Gaza) separated from the other.

[Woodrow]

Israel was the result of racial hatred gone wrong in 1947. At the end of WW2 Palestine was occupied by Great Britain. The Europeans were very prejudiced against the Jews and Great Britain gave them Palestine to get them out of Europe.

This racial hatred has turned the current population of Israelis into vindictive people, doing the same things that were done to them.

[S_87]

Brother indeed Ur religion teaches U to fight the opperssors, but muslims have been violating the teachings of their religion for a long long time. ALLAH's command holds no value to muslims today. (Pl note I m talking about majority of muslims and not about all) . Surely this is the reason that why ALLAH has not been granting victory to them.

Now for the sake of millions of innocent lives, what is the big deal if these guys cant violate yet another principal of Islam and seek a peacefull solution? Only the thugs of Hamas will emerge as losers than.

So, will hawks here turn doves now for the sake of those innocent palestinian children, women, and for others? After all they are ur brother and sisters in Islam. When I can feel their sorrrow and pain after being a kafir, why cant U muslims?

Hamas are NOT thugs!
you have no idea what you are talking about.
infact please elaborate on your first paragraph and teach us islam...

[Whatsthepoint]

Your logic makes no sense. Would you let a robber get away with theft if he managed to hold on to the stolen goods for 60 years??? That idea is laughable.

Seeing how trying to get their land back resulted in even more land loss, I would thing they'd give up by now or at least wait to devise a more feasible plan. Apart from that, Palis have been using dubious means to aquire land, which lost them a lot of credibility and transferred it on Israel.

[Whatsthepoint]

i heard that the reason why the Israelis (or maybe it was the Americans) are at war with Palestine, is because some religious doctrine (again, i cant remember which one) orders some temple to be built on palestine.

In order for the messiah to come back the temple has to be rebuilt. Palestinians won't give up the mosque naturally.
The reality is that nobody wants to build the temple, only an insignificant religious minority does.
Zionism was a secular movement, its founder was an atheist.

[Woodrow]

As a complete outsider with no affiliation to either Palestinians or Jews they appear to be one and the same people. They look the same, many of their customs are the same and they share much of their history. From where I stand, Palestinians look like Jews who converted to Islam. So on that basis I believe they have equal rights to live in the land which was previously Canaan. In fact (niaive as it may sound) I believe they should unite and form one country and call it Canaan. I just can’t see how you can have a viable country where one part of the country is a small strip of land (Gaza) separated from the other.

To a very large extent that is true. However the occupiers of Israel were not of the semitic people. The majority are descended from European, Russian and American converts. The Palestinian Jews were just as much victimized as the Muslims are. Palestinian Jews have all but vanished from Israel. Most sought refuge in MUSLIM countries. There is even a large population in Iran, who refuse to return to Israel as long as the atheistic Zionists control Israel.

[Whatsthepoint]

Several prominent Nazis supported Jewish immigration to Palestine.

[crayon]

Several prominent Nazis supported Jewish immigration to Palestine.

Well of course they would, what better way to ethnically cleanse a country than to ship all the people to someplace else? Much less of a hassle than attempting to kill them all...

[al Amaanah]

my opinion, Israel has no right to exist, they must be destroyed.

same. Allahomma dammir a3daa adeen wa a3daa al muslimeen.

:w:

[Nablus]

Israel is a cancer in the Islamic world so the solution is to uprooted (treating this dangerous disease surgically ) .

israel is the source of terror not only in Palestine but also in all of the world (international zionism) .Muslims will vanish it from the political map.

[Keltoi]

Israel is a cancer in the Islamic world so the solution is to uprooted (treating this dangerous disease surgically ) .

israel is the source of terror not only in Palestine but also in all of the world (international zionism) .Muslims will vanish it from the political map.

Exactly what was said in 1967. Guess who got bigger?

[AntiKarateKid]

Brother indeed Ur religion teaches U to fight the opperssors, but muslims have been violating the teachings of their religion for a long long time. ALLAH's command holds no value to muslims today. (Pl note I m talking about majority of muslims and not about all) . Surely this is the reason that why ALLAH has not been granting victory to them.

Now for the sake of millions of innocent lives, what is the big deal if these guys cant violate yet another principal of Islam and seek a peacefull solution? Only the thugs of Hamas will emerge as losers than.

So, will hawks here turn doves now for the sake of those innocent palestinian children, women, and for others? After all they are ur brother and sisters in Islam. When I can feel their sorrrow and pain after being a kafir, why cant U muslims?

1. Are you kidding? Though many Muslims dont follow Islam the way they should, there are far far more true Muslims taht you are making it out to be.

2. Violate another principle of Islam and seek peace? Which are we violating to seek peace? The Israeli government does not want peace and will not stop until all the land is theirs. In the face of genocide you expect these people to be humiliated and roll over for Israel?

Peace will NOT do anything. HAve you seen the Jewish settlers constantly stealing more land outside their borders while the government protects them? A man has a right to protect his home and if stolen, regain it.

3. You ask why "cant we feel sorrow"???? You're post is extremely self exalting, foolish, and vain. Have you not seen all the Muslims rallying to support the Palestinians even on this forum? Have you not seen us denounce Israel and vow to end it's terrorism? Have you not seen us cring at the atrocities there?

You are being vain and it shows. You cannot understand what it could feel like to lose your home and be called a thug for trying to regain it. Then after numerous "peace accords" have been reached, the opposition breaks the treaties and continually eats your land and demolishes homes.


You in fact do not understand the situation and are better off not getting involved. Peace is good when both sides adhere to it. Israel, with its racist ideology, will not adhere to it.

Ironically this coming from a Hindu whos chief country, India, has fought several wars over land with Pakistan! :rolleyes:^o):ooh:

[Ansariyah]

There is No Solution until Isreal is Dissolved n an Islamic government is in place!

NOT A SECULAR PALESTINIAN GOVT!!

An Islamic Government, which adheres to the Qur'an n Sunnah.

until then there is no solution.

as for now a decent start would be for Israel to completely withdraw from Gaza, and end the siege and open up the borders for aid, medicine, food, for an improvement to the economy. For the purpose of humanity!

If Hamas ever decides to recognize Israel as a legitimate state as the Palestinian Authority and Abbas have, then they are the same as the Zionists.

But, insha'Allah, they will not do that.

[سلثتحعرين!]

Iisrael is in Americas back pocket! why cant they all go there??? They will need America for protection because When Iran does step in Israel will get peppered!!!!

[Woodrow]

Iisrael is in Americas back pocket! why cant they all go there??? They will need America for protection because When Iran does step in Israel will get peppered!!!!

It is more like America is in Israels back pocket. I think we made a mistake in 1947 and now try to hide the mistake by covering it with money. If we wanted to help the Jews we should have brought them from Europe to America instead of giving them Palestinian land.

Don't try to stay awake waiting for Iran to come to the aid of Palestine. While most Iranians are very good people, I do not see much support for the Arab world coming from the Iranian Government. While the Government is anti-Israel I do not find them to be pro-Palestinian or pro-anything Arabic.

[سلثتحعرين!]

Maby not but they could supply Hezbollah with weapons. They are already supplying afghanistan and iraq with weapons

[Keltoi]

Hezbullah doesn't want any part of this.

[Woodrow]

Maby not but they could supply Hezbollah with weapons. They are already supplying afghanistan and iraq with weapons

Memories are short. Do you not remember when Iran was trying to invade Iraq?

Iran still has eyes on getting the Iraq oil fields. Iran also wants the oil trade with China, to get that lucrative contract it needs Afghanistan to build a pipline to deliver oil to China. Iran has no use for Palestine, except as a show when it is convenient to express hatred of Israel.

Yes they are supplying Iraq and Iran with weapons, enough to keep the USA in both countries and bring further devastation. Once the USA leaves it will be a very easy step for Iran to just walk in.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

It is more like America is in Israels back pocket.

Don't try to stay awake waiting for Iran to come to the aid of Palestine. While most Iranians are very good people, I do not see much support for the Arab world coming from the Iranian Government. While the Government is anti-Israel I do not find them to be pro-Palestinian or pro-anything Arabic.

agreed! i don't think any Muslim whether in gaza or otherwise should hold their breaths and expect iran (i.e a non sunni government) to aid them. if the Muslims dont have the upperhand with their allies, their is nothing to stop their allies from turning on them. which means the Muslims are going to be used as pawns, and have their blood and properties at stake.

[Thinker]

agreed! i don't think any Muslim whether in gaza or otherwise should hold their breaths and expect iran (i.e a non sunni government) to aid them. if the Muslims dont have the upperhand with their allies, their is nothing to stop their allies from turning on them. which means the Muslims are going to be used as pawns, and have their blood and properties at stake.

"Muslims used as pawns" . . . . Indeed, Hamas are puppets for Iran and Hezbola are puppets for Syria. Iran and Syria both have agendas of their own and use Hamas and Hezbola to serve their agenda. The question is - why do the leaders of Hamas and Hezbola do their bidding at such cost to the ordinary people?

[aamirsaab]

"Muslims used as pawns" . . . . Indeed, Hamas are puppets for Iran and Hezbola are puppets for Syria. Iran and Syria both have agendas of their own and use Hamas and Hezbola to serve their agenda. The question is - why do the leaders of Hamas and Hezbola do their bidding at such cost to the ordinary people?

2 reasons:
1) Desperation moves against an actual terrorist organisation.
2) They day they stop is the day Palestine no longer exists.

[Banu_Hashim]

This is a comment from a user on a BBC News forum.

" In the West Bank there are no rockets launched against Israel and yet we have Palestinians killed, arrested, their homes demolished on a daily and weekly basis. We have this thing happening in the West Bank but not complaining, no moaning. Hamas is doing this complaining, doing this resistance. Israel has never seeked peace and never will do so the resistance will always be there.

Chadli, Slough "

[Fishman]

:sl:
My opinion on Israel is that Jews need a home state for them to be safe from persecution in, as shown by WWII. This state should have been calved out of Germany, but since this has not happened and it has been calved out of the middle east, then this is where the state should be now.

But just because they have only one state doesn't mean they can go around blowing everybody up in the name of security. They must make concessions too if they expect the Arabs to have peace with them.
:w:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ what do you mean have a state? they should only be guests in palestine. Just the way im a guest in London.

get it? they have no right to it, to any bit of the land!

[Keltoi]

^ what do you mean have a state? they should only be guests in palestine. Just the way im a guest in London.

get it? they have no right to it, to any bit of the land!

Were you born in the U.K.? If so you are not a "guest".

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Were you born in the U.K.? If so you are not a "guest".

born in it or not, i wouldnt try take it over or evict its people.

[Musaafirah]

My opinion. Israel shouldn't have taken over Palestine. Of all the land in the world, why did they feel the need to evict the inhabitants of Palestine. It makes me sad and angry at what they're doing now. What angers me even more is where Jewish people are migrating to Israel to live there, even though their family weren't even born there, whilst so many Palestinians are being killed.
Demonstrations don't seem to be working though. Though, apparently they're stopping the attacks for 3 hours. Source

[MO783]

:sl:

As much as I hate them we cant just kill them all, I think a seperate state for Palestine should be created

[S_87]

:sl:

As much as I hate them we cant just kill them all, I think a seperate state for Palestine should be created

where exactly?
if someone took ur land would ya graciously share it in half?

[Keltoi]

where exactly?
if someone took ur land would ya graciously share it in half?

Gracious has nothing to do with it. It is either constant death, mainly Palestinians, or a two-state solution.

[root]

The land was promised to the Jews, the land was protected by the jews the land should be for the jews.

[aamirsaab]

The land was promised to the Jews, the land was protected by the jews the land should be for the jews.

Is that justification for bombing gaza or any other strip of land that isn't currently under Israeli rule?

Two-state solution won't work anyway. Israeli government wants all of Palestine.

[S_87]

Gracious has nothing to do with it. It is either constant death, mainly Palestinians, or a two-state solution.

whos gonna have al aqsa?

[Civilsed]

The land was promised to the Jews, the land was protected by the jews the land should be for the jews.

The Land was promised to the jews by God, but had conditions attached. The jews did not adhere to the conditions therefore as promised they were exhiled. This is why "REAL jews" are against the state of Israel.

This land is Palestinian land that was stolen by Zionist 60 years ago. The Zionist were looking at Argentina and some African countries first, until deciding to go for Palestine using the fact that is WAS promised to the jews.

By playing a semitic card the zionist got support from "so called Jews" and Christian groups.

[Woodrow]

The land was promised to the Jews, the land was protected by the jews the land should be for the jews.

Assuming that to be true. Are the Zionist the same people called Jews in the Jewish and Christian scriptures??

If memory serves me both the Jews and Christians believe that the Jews will not have a homeland until after rebuilding of the Temple. The temple has not been rebuilt.

Conclusion:

Either the Bible is wrong on that point or the Zionists are not Jews.

[Woodrow]

The Land was promised to the jews by God, but had conditions attached. The jews did not adhere to the conditions therefore as promised they were exhiled. This is why "REAL jews" are against the state of Israel.

This land is Palestinian land that was stolen by Zionist 60 years ago. The Zionist were looking at Argentina and some African countries first, until deciding to go for Palestine using the fact that is WAS promised to the jews.

By playing a semitic card the zionist got support from "so called Jews" and Christian groups.

Very true. In fact the Zionist movement has/had more support from Extremist, fundamentalist Christians than from Jews.

Zionism is not a Jewish movement, it is a political anti-religious movement. Zionism is not only the enemy of Islam, it is also the enemy of Christianity and Judaism.

It was hatred of Jews by prejudiced people that promoted the formation of Israel, not concepts of love or fair play. If the western world had loved the Jews, they would have taken them into their lands as guests, not force them into a land where they were not welcome.

Israel has to be the worse experiment ever conducted and it is time to see it failed and if left to continue will only become a threat to all of mankind.

[Keltoi]

whos gonna have al aqsa?

There will have to be some concession on the issue of Jerusalem. Israel has stated no such concession on Jerusalem will be made, but outside pressure could change their minds. Jerusalem might be split in half, but that is a big might.

[Keltoi]

Very true. In fact the Zionist movement has/had more support from Extremist, fundamentalist Christians than from Jews.

Zionism is not a Jewish movement, it is a political anti-religious movement. Zionism is not only the enemy of Islam, it is also the enemy of Christianity and Judaism.

It was hatred of Jews by prejudiced people that promoted the formation of Israel, not concepts of love or fair play. If the western world had loved the Jews, they would have taken them into their lands as guests, not force them into a land where they were not welcome.

Israel has to be the worse experiment ever conducted and it is time to see it failed and if left to continue will only become a threat to all of mankind.

That isn't exactly true, although there is some truth in it. A return to Israel was a popular idea among many Jews, and Zionism was popular among many Jews, not just secular ones. Harry Truman was pressured to support the formation of Israel by a strong Jewish lobby, in large part due to the oppression they suffered at the hands of Germans, but also because a return to Israel was quite popular by Jews of all stripes.

[root]

The Land was promised to the jews by God, but had conditions attached. The jews did not adhere to the conditions therefore as promised they were exhiled. This is why "REAL jews" are against the state of Israel..

I am not talking about a religous promise. I am talking about the promise that the Old British Empire made to the Jews in return for the help they gave the Old British Empire & the Arabs.

Remember, Turkey occupied & controlled the land. That sham that was called the Arab revolt (Where most Arab countries formed) was nothing more than a fragment of story telling made up by the British and Arabs to deny France the right to Jordan.

This land is Palestinian land that was stolen by Zionist 60 years ago. The Zionist were looking at Argentina and some African countries first, until deciding to go for Palestine using the fact that is WAS promised to the jews.

It was not under the control of the Arabs, it never was a Palestinian state and it never has been. You cannot steal something that does not exist.

By playing a semitic card the zionist got support from "so called Jews" and Christian groups.

No, the Arabs sat around doing nothing when the British moved by force to remove the Jews allowing the Old British Empire to do the Arab dirty work, only the Old British Empire failed to remove the jews, and failed in creating the Pan-Arab super state that they wanted to create

This is the kind of nonsense Arabs seem to favour, since they don't even agree on a set version:

1. Arabs were the original inhabitants and rulers.The Canaanites were Arab, the philistines were Arabs the Amorites were Arabs. The Jews ruled only briefly for some 8 years in the days of David & Solomon

OR

2. Jews are not the descendents of the ancient jews.

"The principle of nationality requires their (The Turks) dis-possesion. Nor is their any indigenous civilisation in Palestine that can take the place of the Turkish except the Jews who...... have given everything it has ever had of value to the worl."

Qoute by Herbert Sidebotham in England & Palestine. London, 1918 p174
http://www.unige.ch/cyberdocuments/t...hehM/these.pdf

Go look for yourself

[Thinker]

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim in 2000 matched historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinian Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan.

...more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. . . . . . they found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...estral_origins

[Civilsed]

[QUOTE=root;1076346]I am not talking about a religous promise. I am talking about the promise that the Old British Empire made to the Jews in return for the help they gave the Old British Empire & the Arabs.

Palestine was not The British empire's to give. Its like The U.S giving UK to France? nonsence.

The point Forgotten is that the Zionist's killed many British troops in Palestine through yes suidice bombings. The British empire then withdrew realising the mess created.

Your point even adds to the aguement that Israel has no rights to Palestine.

[Fishman]

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim in 2000 matched historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinian Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan.

...more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. . . . . . they found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...estral_origins

:sl:
Lots of supposed 'Arabs' aren't really Arabs at all, their cultures were just Arabised.
:w:

[Civilsed]

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim in 2000 matched historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinian Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan.

...more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. . . . . . they found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...estral_origins

The Jews are Arabs, The only difference is Religion/Culture. They use the Anti semitism card towards arabs which is a joke as arabs in the region are all Semites. So perhaps the arabs can start using the anti semitic card haha:D

[IslamicRevival]

Israel have reportedly agreed a truce.

Interesting the zionist have also withdrawn their tanks from Southern Gaza!

VICTORY TO HAMAS! VICTORY TO PALESTINE! Allah Hu Akbar!

These murderers know they are LOSING hence the "Truce Agreement" And "Withdrwal Of Tanks"

Hamas has destroyed Israel with home made rockets and by the help of Allah swt!

THIS IS THE POWER OF ALLAH SWT! :cry:

InshAllah Hezbollah Will Hammer The Final Fail In The Coffin And Finish Them Off!!

ALLAH IS THE GREATEST!! ALLAH IS THE GREATEST!! ALLAH HU AKBAR!! :cry:

[Woodrow]

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim in 2000 matched historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinian Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan.

...more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. . . . . . they found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...estral_origins

No need to leave out and trim you quote. Let us look at more from your source:

Mixed ancestry

Palestinians, like most other Arabic-speakers today commonly called Arabs, are said to combine ancestries from those who have come to settle their respective regions throughout history and the pre-existing ancient inhabitants; a matter on which genetic evidence described below has begun to shed some light.[63]

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:

"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine..."[64]

Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, explains:

"Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Jebusites, Canaanites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabateans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and European crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and Mongols, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."[65]

Kermit Zarley writes that "the early ancestors of some of today's Palestinians are no doubt the Canaanites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Idumaeans, Nabateans and Samaritans. In later periods, their intermarriage with conquering peoples, such as Greeks, Romans, Arabians and Turks, merely added to the genetic mix in Palestine."[66] Much of the local Palestinian population in Nablus, for example, is believed to be descended from Samaritans who converted to Islam.[67] Even today, certain Nabulsi family names including Muslimani, Yaish, and Shakshir among others, are associated with Samaritan ancestry.[67]

DNA and genetic studies
Palestinian coffee house in Jerusalem, c. 1858
Palestinian children in Nazareth

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim in 2000 matched historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[70][71] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously Christianized and later largely Islamized, then both ultimately becoming culturally Arabized.[72] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifically, it reaffirmed that Palestinian "Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan." Geneticist Michael Hammer praised "the study for 'focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinian populations.'" [73] The study proposes that:

...More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years...found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.[74]

While both the Palestinians and the world's distinct Jewish populations have mixed with invading and host populations respectively, Oppenheim's team found "that Jews have mixed more with other populations, which makes sense because they were more likely to leave the Levant.".[75]

In genetic genealogy studies, Palestinians and Negev Bedouins have the highest rates of Haplogroup J1 (Y-DNA) among all populations tested (62.5%).[76] Semitic populations, including Jews, usually possess an excess of J1 Y chromosomes compared to other populations harboring Y-haplogroup J.[77][78][79][80][81][82][83] The haplogroup J1, associated with marker M267, originates south of the Levant and was first disseminated from there into Ethiopia and Europe in Neolithic times. In Jewish populations J1 has a rate of around 15%, with haplogroup J2 (M172) (of eight sub-Haplogroups) being almost twice as common as J1 among Jews (<29%). J1 is most common in the southern Levant, as well as Syria, Iraq, Algeria, and Arabia, and drops sharply at the border of non-semitic areas like Turkey and Iran. A second diffusion of the J1 marker took place in the seventh century CE when Arabians brought it from Arabia to North Africa.[79]

Seems like this shows that the ancestors of todays Palestinians were there for a very long time and were not newcomers who arrived after Jews. Seems like the Palestinians are the most genetically semitic of the semitic people. The Jews are quite well mixed with other people and have less occurrence of the semitic geneitic marker haplogroup J1, associated with marker M267,

I believe you have just shown that Palestinians were there long before the Zionist Israelis.

[Whatsthepoint]

There will have to be some concession on the issue of Jerusalem. Israel has stated no such concession on Jerusalem will be made, but outside pressure could change their minds. Jerusalem might be split in half, but that is a big might.

It wasn't such a big might 10 years ago.

[Woodrow]

Israel have reportedly agreed a truce.

Interesting the zionist have also withdrawn their tanks from Southern Gaza!

VICTORY TO HAMAS! VICTORY TO PALESTINE! Allah Hu Akbar!

These murderers know they are LOSING hence the "Truce Agreement" And "Withdrwal Of Tanks"

Hamas has destroyed Israel with home made rockets and by the help of Allah swt!

THIS IS THE POWER OF ALLAH SWT! :cry:

InshAllah Hezbollah Will Hammer The Final Fail In The Coffin And Finish Them Off!!

ALLAH IS THE GREATEST!! ALLAH IS THE GREATEST!! ALLAH HU AKBAR!! :cry:

I do not think this is because of Hamas and rockets. That method has a 60+ year history of failure.

I think this is the result of the truth being shown by the bodies of innocent children.

The Zionists have learned to use Hamas and the rockets for their purpose and use it to spread lies about Islam and keep the truth about Zionism hidden.

Unintentionaly Hamas was/is the supporting reason for the protection of Israel. That was lost with the pictures of those babies and the truth has won.

We may be more correct to say:

Truth has destroyed Israel with visual proof and by the help of Allah swt!

THIS IS THE POWER OF ALLAH SWT!

InshAllah the Truth Will Hammer The Final Nail In The Coffin And Finish Them Off!!

ALLAH IS THE GREATEST!! ALLAH IS THE GREATEST!! ALLAH HU AKBAR!!

[Bittersteel]

I have been mildly interested by the recent comments of the Israeli president.He said they don't care about the public image of Israel;they are more interested in 'defending' their citizens.

hamas is to blame to a certain and quite an extent but the Israelis.....excessive... too extreme as the Saudi fatwa police.after such actions who in the Muslim world will sympathize with the Israelis??

note I said Israelis not Jews.

I don't think things will be fixed if the Israelis or the Hamas don't make concessions.They both have to at the same time.
Until that it's one big circle of hatred and violence.

[root]

Civilsed: Palestine was not The British empire's to give. Its like The U.S giving UK to France? nonsence.

Your quite right, when the Old British Empire created the fake story of the "Arab Revolt" British soldiers would fight against the Turks and stop outside a city, where orchestrated like a west end play, Arab's would march into the city and declare it part of Arab land under Arab rule. Such methods were employed in a British/Arab fake Arab Revolt to prevent france who held a claim on Jordan, In 1918 a proposal was accepted by the British Government from Osmold Walrond that would allow the Old British Empire to hand territory over to the Arabs. In Cairo it stated to the Arab Puppets in it's back pocket, any areas not yet conquered "complete and sovereign independance of any Arab area emancipated from Turkish control by the actions of the Arabs themselves"

"Wherever the British Army captured a town or reduced a fortress to rubble which was to be given to the Arabs, it would halt until the Arabs could enter and capture be credited to them"

This is how the Arab league of nations were born, it was an Old British Empire quest to control a Pan-Arab super state, and deny France any spoils of war and deny France a claim on Syria.

Two unforseen problems arose,

1. The British tried to hood-wink the Australians not to enter Damascus and sent the Australians ahead to "cut off" the Turkish Retreat (nudge nudge, wink wink). The Australian commander "Brigadier Wilson" finding that he could not cut them off without entering the city, therefore went in and so it was the Australians that Damascus was indeed surrendered.

Later, Bristish Forces went into Damascus to quell an uprising against the planned installation of Faisal. It was put down in bloody fighting that the Arabs did not participate in, a Sheriffian administration was installed by the British and a story was made up about how the Arabs had captured Damascus.

2. From this "scramble" to claim territory by "Right of conquest" Palestine was excluded, no such effort was made by the Arabs on either side of the Jordan, coming as it did a year after the Balfour Decleration on the Jewish National Home in Palestine, this shows Arabs felt no urge to oppose or obstruct the Jewish homeland. Palestine was hence placed under British Administration on the request of the league of Nations.......

Civilsed: The point Forgotten is that the Zionist's killed many British troops in Palestine through yes suidice bombings. The British empire then withdrew realising the mess created.

Your right, the Arabs had two choices. The British did not want a Jewish state, though it made a promise to the Jews to recognise independence in the SAME WAY it recognised Arab independence, the Arabs could have chosen to join the jews against British Administration or even helped the British crush the jews. The Arabs chose a third option, they did nothing. The British statistics at that time showed ans Arab population of 1,200,000 and estimated 100,000 Arabs of fighting age. The total number of Palestinian fighters numbered 4,000. The Jews 650,000 to protect Palestine, The Arabs were not that bothered about defending Palestinia where as the Jews thought with blood over every aquare inch losing as much as one and a half times as much in dead as the Arabs who thought.

You can check for yourself, the report of the Iraqi Government Comission enquired into the cause of the defeat to discover that the Arabs had no affinity to palestinia and simply moved into Jordan, Syria or Lebanon where as the Jews thought hard and brave to protect their home!!!!!

Hebrew Translation in "Behind the Curtain Tel Aviv 1954

[Civilsed]

Just got this thought i'd Share

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lzFT2MPzlv4

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
My opinion on Israel is that Jews need a home state for them to be safe from persecution in, as shown by WWII. This state should have been calved out of Germany, but since this has not happened and it has been calved out of the middle east, then this is where the state should be now.

what a load of hogwash!
would you sit and allow someone to invade your home, and in the end just give it up to them ^o) i hardly think!


go say what you just did to the face of a Palestinian and i guarantee you would walk away needing the ICU!!!

Gracious has nothing to do with it. It is either constant death, mainly Palestinians, or a two-state solution.

says who! don't even think for a second that just because there have been 700 Palestinian deaths during the last two weeks, then they'll stop fighting. they'll fight for their religion, country and freedom...even if it means sacrificing their lives.


and @ two-state solution... if you let them settle for that, if you let them settle for whats not rightfully theirs, they're just gonna come back even hungrier for more!

The land was promised to the Jews, the land was protected by the jews the land should be for the jews.

you wish!

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim in 2000 matched historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinian Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan.

...more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. . . . . . they found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...estral_origins

*googles Ariella Oppenheim* ahh, now why aren't i surprised. shes an Israeli :rolleyes:

[shuraimfan4lyf]

yes you right ramlah..Islam will prevail until day of Judgment.. Islam is Protected by the the-mighty,the-most powerful, al-qawi Allah(SWT). No matter how many muslims they kill,they will not reach their goal of finishing Islam first,and bring one shaitanic religion to the world. It will never happen inshaAllah..

Sura Al-Kafiroon

109.001 Say : O ye that reject Faith!

109.002 I worship not that which ye worship,

109.003 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.004 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

109.005 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.006 To you be your Way, and to me mine.

[Ishbah]

Complicated questions and I cannot answer them individually, rather instead in my opinion, my reply is a combined one.

Yes the Jewish people of what is now known as Israel have the right to live in peace, security and fairness. So do the people of Palestinian ethnicity.

A two state solution will never work in my opinion. Israel will never give back the territories that it took illegally from the Palestinian people. The Palestinians will never stop trying to get it back. Having a 2 state solution will only increase aggravation with each side blaming the other.

The way I see it, the only thing that will have a chance of working is a single state solution, where Jews and Muslims and anyone else who lives there have the right to live wherever they choose in the land that is now known as Israel (including West Bank and Gaza). Where they have equal rights, where each person is represented in Government, where people who have been driven from land historically owned by their families are compensated. Equal rights to travel freely, equal water rights, equal spending per capita on schools, hospitals etc (although I suspect that to get them up to a good standard, schools, hospitals etc, in Palestinian areas will need much higher funding for a good few years). Both sides should be made to demilitarise, with UN policing it if needed. A neutral party needs to oversee this, certainly not the US, and not a middle eastern country either.

The country as a whole should be known as it historically was; Caanan. That way neither side can accuse the other of getting the upper hand.

While ever the Palestinian people are oppressed, forced to live in poverty and slums, anger will fester and they will strike out at those who force them to live this way. While ever this goes on, Israel will exert its right to defend itself and will force more and more stringent conditions on Gaza and the West Bank which only increase suffering and hostility.

Surely too many people have died already?

My dear brothers and sisters - regardless your religion,

Israel is always -and has always been- a very sensitive topic, now more than ever. It is especially an emotional topic since it is related to religion.

I am very curious to hear what your opinion is about Israel, and what the best solution would be according to you.

Do you think Israel has the right to exist (If yes, in what form?) Would you agree with the existence of Israel if the UN resolutions are respected and no new settlements are made? If you don't want a Jewish state at all, do you think the Jews should be able to stay where they are? or should they go 'back'? or should they have a special place within palestine?

I believe in 2 possible options:
- 2 new sovereign countries which are respected by both sides, a Jewish Israel and a state of Palestine, according to the 1948 border resolution.
- 1 new secular state of Palestine in which Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze and Atheists can live together, and maybe with special administrative areas meant for certain groups (I prefer this one)

I am aware that there might be a lot anger due to the recent Israeli attacks, but nonetheless I hope you can give me your honest answer.
:thankyou:

[Trumble]

Unintentionaly Hamas was/is the supporting reason for the protection of Israel. That was lost with the pictures of those babies and the truth has won.

We may be more correct to say:

Truth has destroyed Israel with visual proof and by the help of Allah swt!

Or not. I'm very surprised to see such niavete from you, Woodrow. The Israelis are doing what they usually do; as much as they can before pressure from the international community (and, believe it or not, that is considerable, if not always obvious) starts to catch up with them and forces them to stop. As they haven't got beyond 'principles' yet (which as far as I'm aware Hamas haven't even agreed to) they aren't planning on stopping for a while.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Complicated questions and I cannot answer them individually, rather instead in my opinion, my reply is a combined one.

Yes the Jewish people of what is now known as Israel have the right to live in peace, security and fairness. So do the people of Palestinian ethnicity.

well they can go and find their peace and security somewhere else...they aint gonna get peace and securoty by disruoting peace and secuty...

A two state solution will never work in my opinion. Israel will never give back the territories that it took illegally from the Palestinian people. The Palestinians will never stop trying to get it back. Having a 2 state solution will only increase aggravation with each side blaming the other.

The way I see it, the only thing that will have a chance of working is a single state solution, where Jews and Muslims and anyone else who lives there have the right to live wherever they choose in the land that is now known as Israel (including West Bank and Gaza).

do you think that the Palestinian people would want to live side by side by the ones who tried to destroy them, kill their people, take their properties, and the list goes on. do you seriously really believe that<---serious question.
and why the heck should they want it!

Where they have equal rights, where each person is represented in Government, where people who have been driven from land historically owned by their families are compensated. Equal rights to travel freely, equal water rights, equal spending per capita on schools, hospitals etc (although I suspect that to get them up to a good standard, schools, hospitals etc, in Palestinian areas will need much higher funding for a good few years). Both sides should be made to demilitarise, with UN policing it if needed.

nope, i disagree :) the only government that should be ruling over is a Muslim one. the UN can do whatever they want, as far as i care...but a Muslim government has to govern, well...the Muslims. you cant trust a non-muslim to run the affairs of a Muslim nation.
This is problem with us Muslims. or loyalty doesn't lie with Allah/with the shariah. we need to be independent (as a nation) of people. We have or own shariah, or own laws and rules that govern us. i dont see why we need to seek the help of the non-Muslim government, and put the one that Allah chose for us to the side :(

The country as a whole should be known as it historically was; Caanan. That way neither side can accuse the other of getting the upper hand.

Palestine belongs to the Palestinians. even if there was to exist a two state solution (god forbid), the Palestinian ought to have more right in ruling over it.

While ever the Palestinian people are oppressed, forced to live in poverty and slums, anger will fester and they will strike out at those who force them to live this way. While ever this goes on, Israel will exert its right to defend itself and will force more and more stringent conditions on Gaza and the West Bank which only increase suffering and hostility.

Surely too many people have died already?

the Palestinians wont (and have every right not to) give up and its about time someone stood to Israel.
it doesn't matter how many people die (not that i like seeing Muslims dying), but if its a choice between sitting down and letting Israel "run the joint," or standing up to Israel and risk being killed (which it always has been and will be), then its best to stand up to the enemy---> they fight for the sake of Allah, That surely isn't a wasted effort.

[Woodrow]

Or not. I'm very surprised to see such niavete from you, Woodrow. The Israelis are doing what they usually do; as much as they can before pressure from the international community (and, believe it or not, that is considerable, if not always obvious) starts to catch up with them and forces them to stop. As they haven't got beyond 'principles' yet (which as far as I'm aware Hamas haven't even agreed to) they aren't planning on stopping for a while.

Maybe it is naive and simply wishful thinking on my part. But, from I have seen recently, this has produced the largest world wide out cry against Israel since Israel was formed.

right now I think the only thing that would change that, would be an aggressive act by either Hamas or Hezbullah. Let, the events of Gaza speak for themselves and it will mean a loss of support for Israel. without world support Israel will not last.

I have no animosity against the Jewish people. I see them as our cousins, misguided but still our cousins. It is the Zionist movement I see as evil and the formation of Israel as having been a great error.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

The best law in a muslim country should be the Islamic law(Shariah). InshaAllah it will come, may Allah(SWT) bring back the khilafa as soon as possible,without that law, there will be unjustice and oppression everywhere.

[root]

The Arabs of Ramleh gave us an amusing incident yesterday which reflects their attitude towards us. A large batch of Turkish prisoners were being marched through the village, but they were not preceded by their british Guard. The Arabs, thinking this was the return of the Turkish army, turned out in force, yelling with delight and flying the Turkish flag.

Middle East Diary Page 7

The words Syria and Syrian are foriegn terms. Unless he had learnt English or french, the inhabitant of these parts has no words to describe all his country...... "Sham" is Arabic for the town of Damascus, An allepine always calls himself an Alepine, A beyrouti always calls himself a Beyrouti, and so down to the smallest villages, this verbal poverty indicates a political condition. There is no national feeling.

Secret despatches, pp. 77-78

(P.S The word "Sham" as described in the English Dictionary:

noun, adjective, verb, shammed, shamming.
–noun 1. something that is not what it purports to be; a spurious imitation; fraud or hoax.
2. a person who shams; shammer.
3. a cover or the like for giving a thing a different outward appearance: a pillow sham.
–adjective 4. pretended; counterfeit; feigned: sham attacks; a sham Gothic façade.
5. designed, made, or used as a sham.
–verb (used with object) 6. to produce an imitation of.
7. to assume the appearance of; pretend to have: to sham illness.
–verb (used without object) 8. to make a false show of something; pretend.

This word originates to the British & Arab history in the making of the "Shambolic Arab revolt)!!!!!!!!

The Emir Faisal I, Son of Hussien, Sherif of Mecca who initiated the Arab revolt (The Sham), briefly King of Syria (Syria nbeing given to him by the British) and later King of Iraq (Again given to him by the British) signed a treaty with Dr Chaim Weizmann in Feb 1919. In this treaty they outlined the relations between "The Arab states and Palestine" there was no mention of mutual recognition

As an Arab state was to arise as promised (by the British), it was equally promised (by the british) of a Palestine Jewish state.

Before signing the 1919 treaty Emir Faisal told Reuters agency:

"The Arabs are not jealuos of Zionist Jews and intend to give them fair play. and the Zionist jews have assured the nationalist Arabs on their intention to see that they too have fair play in their repective area."

London Times, December 12, 1918

What was the Zionist area, please someone tell me!

"The Arab State & Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab & Jewish duly accredited agents shall establish and maintain in the respective territories.

In the Establishment of the constitution & Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the Bristish Governments (Balfour) decleration of 2nd November 1917. All necessary measures shall be undertaken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land"

Signed as a bonding agreement to the Balfour treaty in Arabic by Emir Faisal.

[Q8sobieski]

Israel also belongs to the nearly 10 million Arab Christians chased out by the Muslims since the Ottoman times and now reside in North America, South America, and some in Australia. It was the Muslims from al-Hijaz who stole the land from the Aramaic-speaking Christians!

[Güven]

Israel also belongs to the nearly 10 million Arab Christians chased out by the Muslims since the Ottoman times and now reside in North America, South America, and some in Australia. It was the Muslims from al-Hijaz who stole the land from the Aramaic-speaking Christians!

Do you remember when the jews were banned from europe?
do you also remember who took them refuge ?

[Amadeus85]

Israel seems to be one of the most right wing nations in the modern world. Recently minister Cipi Livni mentioned that in future the Israeli Arabs might be somehow removed from the only jewish Israel. That is accepted by I guess at least half of israeli Jews. Similar sentence made in european country (e.g- voices about expelling non catholics from Italy) would be crushed as fascist and many of the attackers would be Jews.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Israel also belongs to the nearly 10 million Arab Christians chased out by the Muslims since the Ottoman times and now reside in North America, South America, and some in Australia. It was the Muslims from al-Hijaz who stole the land from the Aramaic-speaking Christians!

its quite clear from your posts on this forum as well as others, your hatred towards Islam and Muslims. Hence, why you think your comment and others similar to it should be taken into account is quite beyond me!!

[Suomipoika]

What can I say, Israel has the right to defend itself, and eventho there was supposed to be ceasefire there wasnt even a single month last year when Israel wasnt bombed from Gaza. I feel that if Palestinians/Hamas had just stopped all the attacks towards Israel none of this would be happening.

I find that all the pure hate, propaganda, hypocricy towards Israel, in which so many expect they should during ceasefire accept semi-constant attacks against their civilian population has made me rather supportive towards Israel. They arent perfect, but they clearly are the wronged party, well, in my opinion.

No one marched for peace in October when Israel was attacked. No one protested in September when Israel was attacked. No one was particularly bothered when in August... ah, you get the point.

[Banu_Hashim]

What can I say, Israel has the right to defend itself, and eventho there was supposed to be ceasefire there wasnt even a single month last year when Israel wasnt bombed from Gaza. I feel that if Palestinians/Hamas had just stopped all the attacks towards Israel none of this would be happening.

I find that all the pure hate, propaganda, hypocricy towards Israel, in which so many expect they should during ceasefire accept semi-constant attacks against their civilian population has made me rather supportive towards Israel. They arent perfect, but they clearly are the wronged party, well, in my opinion.

No one marched for peace in October when Israel was attacked. No one protested in September when Israel was attacked. No one was particularly bothered when in August... ah, you get the point.

Yeah but Palestine has the right to defend it's self from the constant oppression faced by Israel. Israel controls their lives, and makes their lives miserable. Do they not have the right to defend this?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

What can I say, Israel has the right to defend itself, and eventho there was supposed to be ceasefire there wasnt even a single month last year when Israel wasnt bombed from Gaza. I feel that if Palestinians/Hamas had just stopped all the attacks towards Israel none of this would be happening.

I find that all the pure hate, propaganda, hypocricy towards Israel, in which so many expect they should during ceasefire accept semi-constant attacks against their civilian population has made me rather supportive towards Israel. They arent perfect, but they clearly are the wronged party, well, in my opinion.

No one marched for peace in October when Israel was attacked. No one protested in September when Israel was attacked. No one was particularly bothered when in August... ah, you get the point.

for almost you mentioned, everything simply put: because they shouldn't be there :$

[Civilsed]

NORWEGIAN TRAIN DRIVERS STRIKE FOR GAZA
>
> The Norwegian Locomotive Drivers Union has shown what trade
> unions in Britain should be doing now: taking action in
> support of the Palestinians in Gaza.
>
> On Thursday 8 January all trains in the whole of Norway, and
> all trams and subways in Oslo, stood still for two minutes in
> protest against the Israeli invasion. The union issued the
> following information for passengers:
>
> Because of the situation in the Gaza Strip, the Locomotive
> Drivers Union in Norway has decided to demonstrate our
> solidarity with the Palestinian people. This will be organised
> by adding two more minutes of stoppage at the station. The
> same action applies to all passenger trains in Norway
> simultaneously. We demand the immediate withdrawal of all
> Israeli troops from the Palestinian territory. Thank you for
> your understanding.

Interesting:w:

[Whatsthepoint]

Israel seems to be one of the most right wing nations in the modern world. Recently minister Cipi Livni mentioned that in future the Israeli Arabs might be somehow removed from the only jewish Israel. That is accepted by I guess at least half of israeli Jews. Similar sentence made in european country (e.g- voices about expelling non catholics from Italy) would be crushed as fascist and many of the attackers would be Jews.

They're right wing as far as the Israeli Palestinian conflict is concerned, otherwise Israel is a fairly liberal state.

[crayon]

NORWEGIAN TRAIN DRIVERS STRIKE FOR GAZA
>
> The Norwegian Locomotive Drivers Union has shown what trade
> unions in Britain should be doing now: taking action in
> support of the Palestinians in Gaza.
>
> On Thursday 8 January all trains in the whole of Norway, and
> all trams and subways in Oslo, stood still for two minutes in
> protest against the Israeli invasion. The union issued the
> following information for passengers:
>
> Because of the situation in the Gaza Strip, the Locomotive
> Drivers Union in Norway has decided to demonstrate our
> solidarity with the Palestinian people. This will be organised
> by adding two more minutes of stoppage at the station. The
> same action applies to all passenger trains in Norway
> simultaneously. We demand the immediate withdrawal of all
> Israeli troops from the Palestinian territory. Thank you for
> your understanding.

Interesting:w:

Ooh yes, thank you for posting this! I heard about this on the news the day it happened and tried to look for a source online, but couldn't seem to find one for some reason.
I salute those men and women.:peace:

[Whatsthepoint]

Apart from the Palestinian issue, my opinion of Israel is quite positive. It's a free, successful, open, fairly liberal, economically sustainable society. It has issues, like any country in the world, but otherwise it's ok.

[Woodrow]

Apart from the Palestinian issue, my opinion of Israel is quite positive. It's a free, successful, open, fairly liberal, economically sustainable society. It has issues, like any country in the world, but otherwise it's ok.

Sort of like my saying

"Apart from my poor playing ability I was an excellent basketball player."

One apparently small condition, changes the entire concept and purpose of any issue.

[Whatsthepoint]

Sort of like my saying

"Apart from my poor playing ability I was an excellent basketball player."

One apparently small condition, changes the entire concept and purpose of any issue.

I did italic it..:-[

[Keltoi]

So if the Palestinians were given their own state and international economic aid the calls for the destruction of Israel would cease? I somehow doubt that. That being said, I sincerely hope that whatever peace plan manages to stop this violence will be the start of a lasting peace.

[Vito]

So if the Palestinians were given their own state and international economic aid the calls for the destruction of Israel would cease? I somehow doubt that. That being said, I sincerely hope that whatever peace plan manages to stop this violence will be the start of a lasting peace.

As long as zionists are around, there will always be some kind of corruption or destruction going on. A separate state won't fix that.

[Woodrow]

So if the Palestinians were given their own state and international economic aid the calls for the destruction of Israel would cease? I somehow doubt that. That being said, I sincerely hope that whatever peace plan manages to stop this violence will be the start of a lasting peace.

Sadly, I do not see how there will be any significant end to the desire of the Destruction of Israel until there has been several generations of Peace.

Collective memories seem to live forever.

Perhaps the only solution is a very strong third party taking control of both sides and forcing peace upon all. Not the USA or any European nation, let China have it and become the world's new bad guy.

[بنــuaeــت]

Broken home

And orphaned children

Missing children and women

The men died

But I

Whatever you do

You will never surrender

Allah is with us

اشهد ان لا الله الى الله وان محمد رسول الله

اللهم انصرنا على القوم الكافرين

يارحمن ياغفور ياذا الجلال و الاكرام

[Fishman]

Not the USA or any European nation, let China have it and become the world's new bad guy.

:sl:
Or Fishman! And I will add Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Cyprus, Greece, Egypt, Italy and just about every other state in the general area as well! Long live New Rome... :Evil:
:w:

[Ummu Sufyaan]

The Arabs of Ramleh gave us an amusing incident yesterday which reflects their attitude towards us. A large batch of Turkish prisoners were being marched through the village, but they were not preceded by their british Guard. The Arabs, thinking this was the return of the Turkish army, turned out in force, yelling with delight and flying the Turkish flag.

Middle East Diary Page 7

The words Syria and Syrian are foriegn terms. Unless he had learnt English or french, the inhabitant of these parts has no words to describe all his country...... "Sham" is Arabic for the town of Damascus, An allepine always calls himself an Alepine, A beyrouti always calls himself a Beyrouti, and so down to the smallest villages, this verbal poverty indicates a political condition. There is no national feeling.

Secret despatches, pp. 77-78

(P.S The word "Sham" as described in the English Dictionary:

noun, adjective, verb, shammed, shamming.
–noun 1. something that is not what it purports to be; a spurious imitation; fraud or hoax.
2. a person who shams; shammer.
3. a cover or the like for giving a thing a different outward appearance: a pillow sham.
–adjective 4. pretended; counterfeit; feigned: sham attacks; a sham Gothic façade.
5. designed, made, or used as a sham.
–verb (used with object) 6. to produce an imitation of.
7. to assume the appearance of; pretend to have: to sham illness.
–verb (used without object) 8. to make a false show of something; pretend.

This word originates to the British & Arab history in the making of the "Shambolic Arab revolt)!!!!!!!!

The Emir Faisal I, Son of Hussien, Sherif of Mecca who initiated the Arab revolt (The Sham), briefly King of Syria (Syria nbeing given to him by the British) and later King of Iraq (Again given to him by the British) signed a treaty with Dr Chaim Weizmann in Feb 1919. In this treaty they outlined the relations between "The Arab states and Palestine" there was no mention of mutual recognition

As an Arab state was to arise as promised (by the British), it was equally promised (by the british) of a Palestine Jewish state.

Before signing the 1919 treaty Emir Faisal told Reuters agency:

"The Arabs are not jealuos of Zionist Jews and intend to give them fair play. and the Zionist jews have assured the nationalist Arabs on their intention to see that they too have fair play in their repective area."

London Times, December 12, 1918

What was the Zionist area, please someone tell me!

"The Arab State & Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab & Jewish duly accredited agents shall establish and maintain in the respective territories.

In the Establishment of the constitution & Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the Bristish Governments (Balfour) decleration of 2nd November 1917. All necessary measures shall be undertaken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land"

Signed as a bonding agreement to the Balfour treaty in Arabic by Emir Faisal.

i dont get the point of this quite frankly.

what a bunch of hypocrisy! i mean you turn around and speak of this "pro Zionist state," from the Arabs, yet turn around and forget that the orthodox Jews agree that Israel shouldn’t exist. oh please!

and secondly (if it even is true) Just because some Arab said something, doesn’t make it legitimate! that comment goes IF even the emirs words aren’t taken out of contexts, is the usual habit of the enemies of Islam!

oh and lastly, it’s the Arab revolt. You’ve just stuck “shambolic words” to support your idiotic claims!

type in “shambolic Arab revolt” in Google, and come back and tell me what the results are :rolleyes:

hence, i conclude: the only thing that is a sham around here, are your pathetic attempts of justifying a Jewish/Zionist state. :rollseyes
*tut*

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Collective memories seem to live forever.

LOL. Collective memories are very short lived. In fact, if
we would keep track of all the traumas we went through
we would never be able to bare it.

the only solution is a very strong third party taking control of both sides and forcing peace upon all. Not the USA or any European nation, let China have it and become the world's new bad guy.

That's a good idea - but the only third party I can think of is the people themselves taking control of the bureaucratic systems on both sides - which in the end of the day this is what's making the problem to begin with.

Israel, America, Palestinian Authority, Hamas - these are not people - these are systems, bureaucratic systems. Until people won't learn to control their systems - the world will have no peace.

We must stop making accountant counts on who did this to that and when - this is bureaucracy - we must rehabilitate ourselves from this thing - and start solving these types of problems - this of course assuming that
we do indeed want to solve them - which is possible.

The real problem today is that 90% of the people make a living out of bureaucracy and 70% of bureaucracy is about making war with other people and making other people miserable - therefore making war against bureaucracy, or at least suggesting to turn to a more mature view of it, is a direct threat (or at least seems to be a direct threat) to almost everybody around - thus - having peace is simply scary for most people - add to it the fact that most people who are in position of power are generally weak - and hence easy to scare - and you get a hang of why the situation is the way it is.

Thus - it has to be a collective decision of everybody to solve the conflicts - and not to wait for a miracle - as the conflicts are directly related to everybody.

[marwen]

oh ! a sleeping topic is waked up again !

When it comes to Israel my opinion is clear : Israel was a mistake and they should not keep the mistake living more longer. Israel should not exist because it's a lie, so it should leave the middle east asap. That's the fair solution (not the cowardly solution).
When a property is agressed and stolen, then it will be foolish to speak about PEACE. Peace cannot exist until the human rights are preserved.
Israel government should get out. And israeli-jewish people should leave as well, but can stay under the original Palestinian gvmt, until they find a new destination : like they have come, they should go.
One day muslims will have enough power and determination to make this true. In the meanwhile, Israel can enjoy its stay.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

oh ! a sleeping topic is waked up again !

When it comes to Israel my opinion is clear : Israel was a mistake and they should not keep the mistake living more longer. Israel should not exist because it's a lie, so it should leave the middle east asap. That's the fair solution (not the cowardly solution).
When a property is agressed and stolen, then it will be foolish to speak about PEACE. Peace cannot exist until the human rights are preserved.
Israel government should get out. And israeli-jewish people should leave as well, but can stay under the original Palestinian gvmt, until they find a new destination : like they have come, they should go.
One day muslims will have enough power and determination to make this true. In the meanwhile, Israel can enjoy its stay.

Nothing that happens is a mistake.

[marwen]

Nothing that happens is a mistake.

yes, but when jews founded Israel they know it's wrong. So it's a jewish mistake. But from the big picture, it's qadaru Allah, that has to happen. People can do wrong things, without denying the Qadha2 and Qadar.
When someone killed a person (without reason), it is a mistake of that person. But universally, it was qadaru Allah. But that person should be punished because it has the option to not do the mistake.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

yes, but when jews founded Israel they know it's wrong. So it's a jewish mistake. But from the big picture, it's qadaru Allah, that has to happen. People can do wrong things, without denying the Qadha2 and Qadar.
When someone killed a person (without reason), it is a mistake of that person. But universally, it was qadaru Allah. But that person should be punished because it has the option to not do the mistake.

The people who live there today were born there and hardly know that they are wrong.

How can you solve this problem without hurting innocent people?

In my view we have to see it as qadaru and as an opportunity for Muslims all over the world to unite over this painful problem and solve it - if one thinks of it in these term one can even view it as a very important and meaningful qadaru in Islam and showing its true power - which is belief.

[marwen]

The people who live there today were born there and hardly know that they are wrong.

How can you solve this problem without hurting innocent people?

I understand what you mean Gabriel, but I'm not sure if you can call them innocent people, they know what's going on and they don't try to correct the situation.

In my view we have to see it as qadaru and as an opportunity for Muslims all over the world to unite over this painful problem and solve it - if one thinks of it in these term one can even view it as a very important and meaningful qadaru in Islam and showing its true power - which is belief.

I agree with you considering this as qadar and an opportunity to unify muslims. But that's said, we should not see our muslim brothers killed, and muslim lands stolen and stay without making effort to retrieve our rights, that makes us a bunch of fearful people who can't defend their right, and so we will be punished by Allah if we don't act.

[Pygoscelis]

Israel should not have been created, and it was a very stupid and obvious error. All of the conflict that followed should have been obvious. But now that Israel is there, and so well entrenched, with nuclear weapons to boot, it isn't going anywhere and those who wish it would are living a fantasy. Now that some generations have passed an most Israelis were born there (correct me if thats wrong) I also don't think displacing those who now live in Israel would fix anything anyway, but only make things worse (you'd have 2 groups of displaced people).

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Israel should not have been created, and it was a very stupid and obvious error. All of the conflict that followed should have been obvious. But now that Israel is there, and so well entrenched, with nuclear weapons to boot, it isn't going anywhere and those who wish it would are living a fantasy. Now that some generations have passed an most Israelis were born there (correct me if thats wrong) I also don't think displacing those who now live in Israel would fix anything anyway, but only make things worse (you'd have 2 groups of displaced people).

Its very easy to speak about events involving million of people from all around the world as mistakes. Most people canno't even solve the mistakes in their own private lives - so passing criticism on events on such big scales without proposing a solution seems to me at best useless.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I understand what you mean Gabriel, but I'm not sure if you can call them innocent people, they know what's going on and they don't try to correct the situation.

I do not think they are all innocent - some of them are actively engaged in horrible things and some of them give their active or silent consent to these things. But as in any society - this is just a part of it. It's like defusing a bomb - one has to be very careful not to pull the wrong wire because otherwise we would hurt people and this is the worst.

One has to find a solution which would be fair for everybody.

agree with you considering this as qadar and an opportunity to unify muslims. But that's said, we should not see our muslim brothers killed, and muslim lands stolen and stay without making effort to retrieve our rights, that makes us a bunch of fearful people who can't defend their right, and so we will be punished by Allah if we don't act.

No, of course not! But we should go against it in efficient ways. Otherwise we would be stuck in an endless cycle of bloodshed.

[Woodrow]

What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

Total population of Israel is approximately 7,503,800 inhabitants as of December 2009. 75.4% of them were Jewish (about 5,660,700 individuals), Not that big of a population especially when you consider nearly an equal number live in the USA a large percentage in the New York area. Only about 8% of the total Jewish population of Israel are Haredi (Orthodox Jews). Do not recognize the occupation by the 92% that call themselves Jews but do not follow Judaism and that will only leave about 400,000 to send back to New York. The 92% atheists who are calling them selves Jews can live in Palestine as Dhimmi as long as they behave and follow Sharia.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Total population of Israel is approximately 7,503,800 inhabitants as of December 2009. 75.4% of them were Jewish (about 5,660,700 individuals), Not that big of a population especially when you consider nearly an equal number live in the USA a large percentage in the New York area. Only about 8% of the total Jewish population of Israel are Haredi (Orthodox Jews). Do not recognize the occupation by the 92% that call themselves Jews but do not follow Judaism and that will only leave about 400,000 to send back to New York. The 92% atheists who are calling them selves Jews can live in Palestine as Dhimmi as long as they behave and follow Sharia.

Ahhm. Actually - I think that you are throwing out the wrong group. The Orthodox are rather the ones who should stay in and the non-believers should be out - for the simple reason that the Orthodox Jews are much closer to Muslims than non-believers (even that they are a bigger group).

[Woodrow]

Ahhm. Actually - I think that you are throwing out the wrong group. The Orthodox are rather the ones who should stay in and the non-believers should be out - for the simple reason that the Orthodox Jews are much closer to Muslims than non-believers (even that they are a bigger group).

I was kind of enjoying the thought of the Zionists living as dhimmi under a Palestinian Government, Palestinians that have been persecuted for 60 years.

But, you are correct. History has shown that Muslims and Orthodox Jews can live side by side in Peace.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I was kind of enjoying the thought of the Zionists living as dhimmi under a Palestinian Government, Palestinians that have been persecuted for 60 years.

Why? Just worthless headache. Zionists are by definition non-believers and this is a headache as these people are usually very confused and make a lot of problems :)

About Muslims and Orthodox Jews - In history, if one looks genuinely, one sees that when the differences where not systematically highlighted - they were not very big. However, the orthodox Jews do have their problems.

[Supreme]

My thoughts on the matter? I'm neither a Zionist or an anti Zionist. When I go to the Holy Land in the next few years, I won't mind whether the head of state prays to Allah or Jehovah. I won't care whether the citizens look to the Torah or the Quran for guidance.

Don't get me wrong, what the Israelis have done in the past is wrong- but then, every nation has an ugly history. Every nation has skeletons in the closet on how it came into existence. The British should not have let the Israelis have the land. The British should have kept it how it was- British. The Palestinians and Jews in the Holy Land should still be taking orders from the non-Jews and non-Arabs in London, and there would peace and prosperity.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

My thoughts on the matter? I'm neither a Zionist or an anti Zionist. When I go to the Holy Land in the next few years, I won't mind whether the head of state prays to Allah or Jehovah. I won't care whether the citizens look to the Torah or the Quran for guidance.

Don't get me wrong, what the Israelis have done in the past is wrong- but then, every nation has an ugly history. Every nation has skelentons in the closet on how it came into existence. The British should not have let the Israelis have the land. The British should have kept it was- British. The Palestinians and Jews in the Holy Land would still be taking orders from the non-Jews and non-Arabs at Whitehall, and there would peace and prosperity.

1. The real question which makes this story complicated is not how you pray but - if you pray.

2. Judaism is a religion.

3. Israel is a nation.

The confusion between (2) and (3) leads to a very unhealthy situation for everybody. Some people (not only in a specific geographic domain) think that they can make some petty profit from sustaining this confusion - this is
a weird idea.

[Pygoscelis]

Its very easy to speak about events involving million of people from all around the world as mistakes. Most people canno't even solve the mistakes in their own private lives - so passing criticism on events on such big scales without proposing a solution seems to me at best useless.

You would not like my solution.

[nousername]

I have a disappointed, sadened opinion of them that they are creating/created an apartheid state and for the country that has I quote "the most moral army " they sure have a way to show their morality by using white phosphorous, denying aid ships coming to Gaza, etc.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

You would not like my solution.

How do you know? :)

What's your solution?

(I would like any solution that solves this problem in a fair way)

[tango92]

well get them out the same way they got in, however that may be.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

well get them out the same way they got in, however that may be.

That's a bad idea - since you do not approve what they have done - so why going over the same
mistakes again?

[Darth Ultor]

Israel has every right to exist and should be allowed to defend their land. The expansion into Gaza and the West Bank is just disgusting, but Israel itself has the right to exist.

[tango92]

im saying get them out of gaza and scatter them through yonder western countries. i couldnt care less about the people of the west.

and why does israel have the right to exist? because jews share a skin colour?

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

im saying get them out of gaza and scatter them through yonder western countries. i couldnt care less about the people of the west.

and why does israel have the right to exist? because jews share a skin colour?

Well - It seems to be Allh's will.

Everything has a right to exist simply because it exists as this is Allah's will.

The real thing is to know how to avoid hurt and being hurt by the different things
in Allah's world.

In fact - the only thing in the world which should not exist at all is the concept of
non-believing - if we would solve this problem all other problems would just be
solved by themselves.

[tango92]

a rapist doesnt have the right to rape simply because he can.

sure jews have a right to live, but not a right to murder innocents for some land. the only way israel can exist is by bloody wrs, hence it does not have the right to exist.

[Darth Ultor]

Here's a wonderful idea that both Palestinian and Israeli leaders should consider: Diplomacy. Ever heard of it? It's when two opposing sides talk out their problems and try to come to a solution. I'm tired of all this Palestinians are innocent and the Israelis are bad and vice versa.The Palestinian militants are behaving with utmost dishonor, and are in violation of the Quran. Don't get me wrong, the incidents where Israelis target unarmed civilians is just as bad. Palestinians could've had a state in 2000, but Arafat didn't want it.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Here's a wonderful idea that both Palestinian and Israeli leaders should consider: Diplomacy. Ever heard of it? It's when two opposing sides talk out their problems and try to come to a solution. I'm tired of all this Palestinians are innocent and the Israelis are bad and vice versa.The Palestinian militants are behaving with utmost dishonor, and are in violation of the Quran. Don't get me wrong, the incidents where Israelis target unarmed civilians is just as bad. Palestinians could've had a state in 2000, but Arafat didn't want it.

True.

But secular diplomacy would never solve this problem which is religious.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

a rapist doesnt have the right to rape simply because he can.

True. This is why is said that we should avoid being hurt and hurting others.

[Darth Ultor]

It's not really religious, but political. Except for Jerusalem, which can be shared. There Islam and Judaism and Christians have holy sites.

[Darth Ultor]

By the way, are non-Muslims allowed to visit Masjid al-Aqsa?

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

It's not really religious, but political. Except for Jerusalem, which can be shared. There Islam and Judaism and Christians have holy sites.

Well - that is exactly the point.

If the question of Jerusalem would be solved the rest of the problem would be solved.

The reason it is not solved is because the Israeli's refuse to deal with this question in
religious terms and this leads to the whole suffering for everybody.

[Darth Ultor]

Dear God, if we both put down our weapons and come to a solution, we could have one of the greatest states in the world. It's not like Muslims and Jews can't co-exist. There was the Ottoman Empire, Muslim Spain, and we get along just fine in secular countries, so why not in our own lands?

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Dear God, if we both put down our weapons and come to a solution, we could have one of the greatest states in the world. It's not like Muslims and Jews can't co-exist. There was the Ottoman Empire, Muslim Spain, and we get along just fine in secular countries, so why not in our own lands?

Because the Israeli government is stubborn and does not want to fulfill its duty which is quite simple and easy to follow.

There has been many voices through out the years which have suggested to them very good resolutions which would lead to prosperity for all - just like you said, an option of having one of the greatest states ever which would lead to abundance for everyone.

However, they are stubborn and confused and never want to listen.

[Darth Ultor]

Hamas has to put down their weapons too and start being willing to listen.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Hamas has to put down their weapons too and start being willing to listen.

Hamas does not have any weapons. Hamas has a few pipes. Even these pipes it gets from sources which care in no way about what is done in the middle east. In short - the problem is not Hamas - the problem is chronic immaturity.

[Darth Ultor]

Amen to that, as long as you mean both sides.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

:hmm: The state of Israel can never be challenged or destroyed until the day the Islamic Khilafah is established. My views on the current state of Israel is that it should be the way it is and may defend it until the hour comes, but I hope it should put an end to the murderous attacks on innocent Palestinians. However we become complacent by commenting that there should be no new settlements, Israel should stop illegal attacks etc.

This is what I think! anyone can comment on my views :p

[shuraimfan4lyf]

The problem is Israel, and ONLY Israel. They need they pack their bags and get the heck out of Shams. Before the whooping starts and they will hide behind trees. I heard that they started to plant those trees that wont speak against them near day of Judgement.

[Dagless]

Palestinians could've had a state in 2000, but Arafat didn't want it.

This is a joke. Please do some reading or look at previous threads to educate yourself on what was offered and concessions made. Israel is plainly the aggressor and the one not willing to compromise. This is not my opinion but a fact. Look at every attempt at peace and negotiation, and from where it came.

[Mohamed_Sadiq]

My opinion on Israel is:
Non-existing state, thats populated by the cursed Jews that refused Allah (swt) commands. At the moment they are murderers and deserve harsh punishment. But they won't suceed with what they want, as Islam will overshadow them one day. Basically Israel is nothing in my eyes.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

And yes Indeed, they disobeyed commands of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala through Prophet Musa Alayhi As-salam, not once but many times. That is why the La'nah of Allah is upon them. Our Sheikh was just giving a lecture about that on Monday.

[Mohamed_Sadiq]

Yeh, The Jews have so much arrogance. They think they know everything. They know about Islam more than the other non-muslims yet they are distant and would never convert. What a bunch of lunatics.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Amen to that, as long as you mean both sides.

These are the two sides

- mature people.

- immature people.

The immature people should become mature and then we would have
peace. There are two ways to become mature

- pain
- giving up immature ego.

Hopefully it would be the second way and not the first (sad experience teaches
us that it is not what usually happens)

By the way if you notice - maturing usually means loosing ego. For instance a parent
has much less ego than a child.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

The problem is Israel, and ONLY Israel. They need they pack their bags and get the heck out of Shams. Before the whooping starts and they will hide behind trees. I heard that they started to plant those trees that wont speak against them near day of Judgement.

This cannot be.

There is never a one sided problem. You are just making things too simple and an over simplified
solution can never hold.

There has to be a solution which is fair for everybody - otherwise it would not be a solution.

[Dagless]

There is never a one sided problem. You are just making things too simple and an over simplified
solution can never hold.

It depends on the goal. Currently the goal from Israel and the US is not to have peace. Therefore it is a one sided problem.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

It depends on the goal. Currently the goal from Israel and the US is not to have peace. Therefore it is a one sided problem.

So, with all due respect - who asks them?

Peace is the ultimate interest of 99% of the people on this planet.

Putting aside all sorts of unimportant bureaucratic considerations.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

So, with all due respect - who asks them?

Peace is the ultimate interest of 99% of the people on this planet.

Putting aside all sorts of unimportant bureaucratic considerations.

I am not too sure about the "99%"..probably only 10-20% of Israeli people want peace. The rest want to finish the people of Ghazza by destorying their homes and preventing supplies to enter the city.

[Dagless]

So, with all due respect - who asks them?

The Palestinians.
The Arabs.
The UN.
The world.

Peace is the ultimate interest of 99% of the people on this planet.

Lots of answers:

1) Peace where you live is in interest of 99% of the planet. Having instability over which you have control in other areas can be an advantage.
2) To achieve peace, Israel would have to agree to the rights of the Palestinians and lose land.
3) Israel is slowly expanding and killing off Palestinians anyway, maybe they figure they'll just carry on... its not like anyone is stopping them.

Putting aside all sorts of unimportant bureaucratic considerations

If by "unimportant bureaucratic considerations" you mean the rights of the Palestinians then no.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

The Palestinians.
The Arabs.
The UN.
The world.



Lots of answers:

1) Peace where you live is in interest of 99% of the planet. Having instability over which you have control in other areas can be an advantage.
2) To achieve peace, Israel would have to agree to the rights of the Palestinians and lose land.
3) Israel is slowly expanding and killing off Palestinians anyway, maybe they figure they'll just carry on... its not like anyone is stopping them.



If by "bureaucratic considerations" you mean the rights of the Palestinians then no.

You took it to places which are very far away from what I meant.

1. The rights of the Palestinian people should be on the top of the list of things to be
considered as it goes under the category of - fairness.

2. By bureaucratic considerations I mean the fact that currently it is neither you
are me or any of us here who make the calls but rather other people - these people
are bureaucrats (all of them) and are driven by bureaucratic considerations which
have no human applications - and this is the main reason why we are in this situation
to begin with.

3. Israel is not a person - it is a state - we are doing a huge mistake by speaking of
it as a person - it is simply a bureaucratic organization.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I am not too sure about the "99%"..probably only 10-20% of Israeli people want peace. The rest want to finish the people of Ghazza by destorying their homes and preventing supplies to enter the city.

Everybody wants peace for himself and to protect himself and the people he cares for. This is on the top of the list for most people I know.

The problem begins when people think that my peace and your peace cannot come together.

The only way to understand that this is not true is by maturing and understanding how to solve conflicts.

This is more than possible - in fact there is no other way.

[Dagless]

2. By bureaucratic considerations I mean the fact that currently it is neither you
are me or any of us here who make the calls but rather other people - these people
are bureaucrats (all of them) and are driven by bureaucratic considerations which
have no human applications - and this is the main reason why we are in this situation
to begin with.

Both governments were voted in democratically.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Both governments were voted in democratically.

So? Democracy is by definition a bureaucratic concept and voting is a bureaucratic process.

The conflict we are speaking about can be described as follows:

A religious conflict which turned into a bureaucratic confusion which has implication on human lives.

Thus human beings have to take hold of the bureaucratic systems and solve the religious conflicts - this
is the only way out.

I say that the conflict is religious is because the only reason why Palestinians and Israeli's do not qualify
as the same people (and thus could all live under the same state whatever its name would be) - is because
the first group is Muslim and a bit of Christian and the second is secular and a bit of Jewish.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

Everybody wants peace for himself and to protect himself and the people he cares for. This is on the top of the list for most people I know.

The problem begins when people think that my peace and your peace cannot come together.

The only way to understand that this is not true is by maturing and understanding how to solve conflicts.

This is more than possible - in fact there is no other way.

The confict can be solved easily if Israel sticks to what they say, but are you saying that Israel and Palestinians have to share land? The land which was stolen from the Muslims by using violence, rape and all sorts of disgusting methods the media hides(only for Israel). The land which contains Masjid Al Aqsa, and is mentioned in Quran. The land which recently just became holy to the so called jews. The land which was once dear to the Muslims who fled to other Countries.

The land which is supposed to Look like

but instead it looks like

[marwen]

Ok guys, lets forget the diplomacy bla bla, and keep it simple : What on earth make Israel a ligitimate state ? =>
1) religion ? no (a big LIE)
2) history ? no (a bigger L I E !)
3) Power ? yes

Today, it's all about power. You have power then you are respected and you are beyond the law : you are the law ! Examples :
The USA !
CHINA !
RUSSIA !
They don't respect the low, they make the law !

Another emerging example : Iran. Why is the world hesitating on how to deal with Iran ? It's because Iran seems to have nuclear weapons. Why we didn't see the USA hesitating before invading Iraq ? the same reason : Iraq has no power.

Today the whole world is thinking that way. Israel is the most "powerful" State in the Middle East, so no need for legal reasons for Isreal : the military power is the most convincing.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

The confict can be solved easily if Israel sticks to what they say, but are you saying that Israel and Palestinians have to share land? The land which was stolen from the Muslims by using violence, rape and all sorts of disgusting methods the media hides(only for Israel). The land which contains Masjid Al Aqsa, and is mentioned in Quran. The land which recently just became holy to the so called jews. The land which was once dear to the Muslims who fled to other Countries.

The land which is supposed to Look like

but instead it looks like

Well. What you say is not correct.

Israel has been first mentioned in the Bible and wether we like it or not.

The reason it belongs to the Muslims is because that after the the Prophet came and
gave the final revelation.

Thus - in order for the Jews to be truly deserving to the land - they have to embrace
the Prophet and Islam.

But this solves the problem I think.

[Dagless]

So? Democracy is by definition a bureaucratic concept and voting is a bureaucratic process.

The conflict we are speaking about can be described as follows:

A religious conflict which turned into a bureaucratic confusion which has implication on human lives.

Thus human beings have to take hold of the bureaucratic systems and solve the religious conflicts - this
is the only way out.

The government is expressing the views of the majority. Whether the conflict is religious or not doesn't matter, they still need a voice. How can each human alone solve the conflict? It can only be done as a group.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Ok guys, lets forget the diplomacy bla bla, and keep it simple : What on earth make Israel a ligitimate state ? =>
1) religion ? no (a big LIE)
2) history ? no (a bigger L I E !)
3) Power ? yes

Today, it's all about power. You have power then you are respected and you are beyond the low : you are the low ! Examples :
The USA !
CHINA !
RUSSIA !
They don't respect the low, they make the low !

Another emerging example : Iran. Why is the world hesitating on how to deal with Iran ? It's because Iran seems to have nuclear weapons. Why we didn't see the USA hesitating before invading Iraq ? the same reason : Iraq has no power.

Today the whole world is thinking that way. Israel is the most "powerful" State in the Middle East, so no need for legal reasons for Isreal : the military power is the most convincing.

This is not the Islamic point of view.

The islamic point of view is that

Things are legitimate if Allah wants them to be legitimate.

Things have power if Allah wishes them to have power.

At the end of the day all power is a manifestation of his power.

military power is the most convincing.

Thus, believers have to find the way to make belief more convincing than military
physical inferior power.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

The government is expressing the views of the majority. Whether the conflict is religious or not doesn't matter, they still need a voice. How can each human alone solve the conflict? It can only be done as a group.

The majority is not in position to lead.

Either people govern themselves and lead themselves by themselves.

Or either people are governed by Allah and have religious guidance that helps
them live in peace in Allah's world.

It must be done in a group. There has been many process like this through out history
in which groups changed the situations in their area.

[Dagless]

The majority is not in position to lead.

Either people govern themselves and lead themselves by themselves.

Or either people are governed by Allah and have religious guidance that helps
them live in peace in Allah's world.

It must be done in a group. There has been many process like this through out history
in which groups changed the situations in their area.

Groups need leadership. Those leaders speak for the people. Give me one example of where this is not the case.

[Supreme]

Ok guys, lets forget the diplomacy bla bla, and keep it simple : What on earth make Israel a ligitimate state ? =>
1) religion ? no (a big LIE)
2) history ? no (a bigger L I E !)
3) Power ? yes

Today, it's all about power. You have power then you are respected and you are beyond the low : you are the low ! Examples :
The USA !
CHINA !
RUSSIA !
They don't respect the low, they make the low !

Another emerging example : Iran. Why is the world hesitating on how to deal with Iran ? It's because Iran seems to have nuclear weapons. Why we didn't see the USA hesitating before invading Iraq ? the same reason : Iraq has no power.

Today the whole world is thinking that way. Israel is the most "powerful" State in the Middle East, so no need for legal reasons for Isreal : the military power is the most convincing.

How does one become a legitimate state? If you do not accept Israel as a legitimate state, then why on Earth should you accept the USA, China, Sudan, France, Iran, Australia, New Zealand, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Northern Cyprus, Russia, India, Myanmar or Morocco as legitimate? Do you accept those countries are illegitimate?

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Groups need leadership. Those leaders speak for the people. Give me one example of where this is not the case.

Israel. America. Palestinians.

All these people have no leadership actually.

What we call leadership leads the systems not the people.

It leads the hospitals, military, schools, universities and transfers money
and work power to them.

But it has nothing to do with the people. The government is just a bureaucratic
organization which seems to have people working for it. These are the people
we call Prime Minister and President - they are not leaders of any sorts.

And if anything - they do not lead people.

[Dagless]

Israel. America. Palestinians.

All these people have no leadership actually.

What we call leadership leads the systems not the people.

It leads the hospitals, military, schools, universities and transfers money
and work power to them.

But it has nothing to do with the people. The government is just a bureaucratic
organization which seems to have people working for it. These are the people
we call Prime Minister and President - they are not leaders of any sorts.

And if anything - they do not lead people.

Sorry but what you're saying doesn't make sense. Israel and Palestine both have governments which were voted in by the majority. They both get high approval ratings, which means what they do is backed by the majority.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Sorry but what you're saying doesn't make sense. Israel and Palestine both have governments which were voted in by the majority. They both get high approval ratings, which means what they do is backed by the majority.

No it does not.

Let's say I come to you and ask you "what do you want to eat? Non coked beans or dry potato coverings?"

If I would push you to the wall you would choose one of them.

But do you really want to eat any of this? Probably not - but you do not have any other option.

It would also not be fair if I would say that you like non-cocked beans because it was not really
your choice.

In short - we give people too much credit. Countries usually consist of a few million people - while most people cannot even make the right choices about their own lives - so asking for them to decide about the life of others is a weird idea.

[A-Believer-25]

There is no Israel. They stole the land from the Palestinians and are killing palestinians all the time, then they cover it from the media.

[Woodrow]

In virtually every war there have been people making a profit. Wars continue because somebody is making money over the conflict. Remove the profit and the war ends. We can begin by examining some Supporters of the Zion government. We can also examine the motives of some who manage to supply and smuggle munitions and products for making munitions into Gaza. Not everybody who is aiding Hamas, is doing so because they love Muslims.

In the past the weapon of choice for Hamas was the Katyusha rocket. We know these were originally supplied by Russians, some Russian smugglers made a few dollars off these. Newer ones are now being made elsewhere and continue to find their way into the hands of Palestinians. The Katyusha is an interesting weapon. It is designed for short time usage only for disorienting the enemy while a major assault is being staged. To be effective for it's purpose hundreds of them have to be fired rapidly. By themselves they are almost a useless weapon, very inaccurate, short range and unpredictable. There attraction is they are visible, make a lot of noise and look like they are dangerous. The reality is one or 2 fired alone is not much more effective than a fire cracker. If you could select the weapon you hope an enemy would shoot at you that is a good choice.

Just for example:

Eight hurt as record number of rockets hits northern Israel
Haaretz reporter among the wounded as 140 Katyushas rain down; residential buildings hit in Acre, Kiryat Shmona.
By Haaretz Staff and Agencies



Hezbollah fired a record 140 Katyusha rockets at targets in northern Israel on Sunday, wounding at least eight people, including a Haaretz correspondent.

Seven of the wounded sustained light injuries. The wounds of Haaretz reporter Yuval Azoulay were described as moderate. He was evacuated to Sieff hospital in Safed.

SOURCE

Hardly a weapon to supply somebody with if you expect or want them to win a battle. Only use for them is the supplier is making money off of them.

Come to think of it looking at all of the assaults by Palestinians, there have been more Palestinians killed or injured by them than any other group. Something is wrong with this picture.

Why does it continue? Somebody is making a profit off of Palestinians seeking freedom.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

In virtually every war there have been people making a profit. Wars continue because somebody is making money over the conflict. Remove the profit and the war ends. We can begin by examining some Supporters of the Zion government. We can also examine the motives of some who manage to supply and smuggle munitions and products for making munitions into Gaza. Not everybody who is aiding Hamas, is doing so because they love Muslims.

In the past the weapon of choice for Hamas was the Katyusha rocket. We know these were originally supplied by Russians, some Russian smugglers made a few dollars off these. Newer ones are now being made elsewhere and continue to find their way into the hands of Palestinians. The Katyusha is an interesting weapon. It is designed for short time usage only for disorienting the enemy while a major assault is being staged. To be effective for it's purpose hundreds of them have to be fired rapidly. By themselves they are almost a useless weapon, very inaccurate, short range and unpredictable. There attraction is they are visible, make a lot of noise and look like they are dangerous. The reality is one or 2 fired alone is not much more effective than a fire cracker. If you could select the weapon you hope an enemy would shoot at you that is a good choice.

Just for example:

SOURCE

Hardly a weapon to supply somebody with if you expect or want them to win a battle. Only use for them is the supplier is making money off of them.

Come to think of it looking at all of the assaults by Palestinians, there have been more Palestinians killed or injured by them than any other group. Something is wrong with this picture.

Why does it continue? Somebody is making a profit off of Palestinians seeking freedom.

And who is this somebody and why is he behaving like such a pig?

Also - why do we not go against him - if he is truly the source?

[shuraimfan4lyf]

Why does it continue? Somebody is making a profit off of Palestinians seeking freedom.

Akhee are you referring to Hamas as "somebody"..can you please elaborate?

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Akhee are you referring to Hamas as "somebody"..can you please elaborate?

No. Wodroo said that somebody is making a profit out of this conflict and this is the only reason
why it keeps existing.

Then I said - let us find who this somebody is - or make a list of all these people and think of how
to solve the problem with them.

There are two options actually

1. The list amounts to two or five people at most - this makes things very simple.

2. The list amounts to millions of people all over the world - this is scenario is
somewhat more complicated.

[Mohamed_Sadiq]

Its these weak arab government that help the Israelis trust me, the only way they help their Palestinians brothers and sisters is by giving them money only, but no political support so hows that can give Palestian freedom when their own brothers and sisters aren't helping them. I can't stand these weak arab government like egypt and Saudi arabia they are just puppets for the western countries.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Its these weak arab government that help the Israelis trust me, the only way they help their Palestinians brothers and sisters is by giving them money only, but no political support so hows that can give Palestian freedom when their own brothers and sisters aren't helping them. I can't stand these weak arab government like egypt and Saudi arabia they are just puppets for the western countries.

This might be. But no matter how strong or weak these governments would be - they would never solve the one most important issue - the issue of Jerusalem as this is an issue which has nothing to do with power but rather
with religion. Without following the laws of Allah completely this issue would never be solved.

[Mohamed_Sadiq]

This might be. But no matter how strong or weak these governments would be - they would never solve the one most important issue - the issue of Jerusalem as this is an issue which has nothing to do with power but rather
with religion. Without following the laws of Allah completely this issue would never be solved.

The situation regarding jerusalem and palestian will not be solved until all the Muslims become united as there is no unity between Muslims countries at the moment as all their governments are being used by the westerns.

[Woodrow]

And who is this somebody and why is he behaving like such a pig?

Also - why do we not go against him - if he is truly the source?

The who is difficult to identify because it most likely is not a single entity, but rather separate greedy groups. some are stock holders in munition factories, some will be unsuspecting pawns who are being used. Others may be well planned bureaucrats lining their own pockets. If we are to give him a name it would be GREED and he will be found in the faces of greedy people who have no concern for the source of their wealth he crawls on his belly over the land of every nation. To kill this monster his source of money must end. Bring an end to the war profit and the war will end.

I do not know how to end it, I only know that each of us must not be a source of income for this monster.

[Supreme]

The situation regarding jerusalem and palestian will not be solved until all the Muslims become united and their is no unity between Muslims countries as all their governments are being used by the westerns.

I've never fully understood this. What magical solution do you propose that all the Muslim countries, if they came together in this future unity, initiate?

[Mohamed_Sadiq]

I've never fully understood this. What magical solution do you propose that all the Muslim countries, if they came together in this future unity, initiate?

As usual the non-muslims fear the unity of Islam, I wonder why.

I am talking about the Unity between the muslim government and the muslim population, the population are the voice not the government. If some muslims government stoped being puppets for the western world then Palestian would be liberated long time ago from these jewish invaders.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

I've never fully understood this. What magical solution do you propose that all the Muslim countries, if they came together in this future unity, initiate?

Truly! This, your Ummah [Sharia or religion (Islamic Monotheism)] is one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me (Alone). Surat Al-Anbiya 21:92

It initiates that Muslims are supposed to be one Nation, and if a enemy hurts one person, the whole Ummah should be hurt and defend that one person.

[Supreme]

As usual the non-muslims fear the unity of Islam, I wonder why.

I am talking about the Unity between the muslim government and the muslim population, the population are the voice not the government. If some muslims government stoped being puppets for the western world then Palestian would be liberated long time ago from these jewish invaders.

Wait... what? What are you talking about? I'm asking you what you think would actually happen with Israel if there was some future Islamic state.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

Wait... what? What are you talking about? I'm asking you what you think would actually happen with Israel if there was some future Islamic state.

What WILL happen is this,inshaAllah:

It was also narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said. “The Jews will fight you and you will prevail over them until a rock will say, “O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me, (come and) kill him.”’” (narrated by Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi, who said, this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth).

And it was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The Dajjaal will come down to this pond at Marriqanaat (a valley near Madeenah), and most of those who go out to follow him will be women, such that a man will go back to his wife, mother, daughter, sister or (paternal) aunt and will tie them up lest they go out to join him. Then Allaah will grant the Muslims victory over him, and they will kill him and his party, until a Jew will hide beneath a tree or a rock, and the tree or rock will say, ‘Here a Jew beneath me, (come and) kill him.’” (Narrated by Ahmad in his Musnad). This was also narrated by Ibn Maajah from Abu Umaamah al-Baahili from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) concerning the Dajjaal.

And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 3/91

[questioner8]

As a complete outsider with no affiliation to either Palestinians or Jews they appear to be one and the same people. They look the same, many of their customs are the same and they share much of their history. From where I stand, Palestinians look like Jews who converted to Islam. So on that basis I believe they have equal rights to live in the land which was previously Canaan. In fact (niaive as it may sound) I believe they should unite and form one country and call it Canaan. I just can’t see how you can have a viable country where one part of the country is a small strip of land (Gaza) separated from the other.

Where in the koran is it written that Palestine is only for muslims?
There is also, no mention of Jerusalem in the koran!

[Supreme]

Where in the koran is it written that Palestine is only for muslims?
There is also, no mention of Jerusalem in the koran!

The Farthest Mosque (al Aqsa, Temple, mount Zion, etc) is mentioned in the Quran and is in Jerusalem

It was also narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said. “The Jews will fight you and you will prevail over them until a rock will say, “O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me, (come and) kill him.”’” (narrated by Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi, who said, this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth).

And it was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The Dajjaal will come down to this pond at Marriqanaat (a valley near Madeenah), and most of those who go out to follow him will be women, such that a man will go back to his wife, mother, daughter, sister or (paternal) aunt and will tie them up lest they go out to join him. Then Allaah will grant the Muslims victory over him, and they will kill him and his party, until a Jew will hide beneath a tree or a rock, and the tree or rock will say, ‘Here a Jew beneath me, (come and) kill him.’” (Narrated by Ahmad in his Musnad). This was also narrated by Ibn Maajah from Abu Umaamah al-Baahili from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) concerning the Dajjaal.

And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 3/91

Thank you for this (I of course, respectfully reject any Hadith with regards to the future. I was merely asking for an Islamic point of view).

[shuraimfan4lyf]

The Farthest Mosque (al Aqsa, Temple, mount Zion, etc) is mentioned in the Quran and is in Jerusalem




Thank you for this (I of course, respectfully reject any Hadith with regards to the future. I was merely asking for an Islamic point of view).

I know you will reject that, but since you asked what will happen if a Khilafa is to be reformed, and the answer was that. And you are welcome.

[Woodrow]

Where in the koran is it written that Palestine is only for muslims?
There is also, no mention of Jerusalem in the koran!

Who said Palestine is only for Muslims? Palestinians have been and continue to be a Nationality and not a religion. There are Muslim Palestinians, Jewish Palestinians, Christian Palestinians etc. Palestine should be for Palestinians not Zionist invaders.

Perhaps you can not find it in the Qur'an because you do not read Arabic or Hebrew. Al-Quds is the shortened Arabic name for Jerusalem derived from Bayt al-Muqaddas and it is virtually identical to the actual Hebrew name for Jerusalem which is Beit Ha-Mikdash. Actually Jerusalem is not mentioned in the English translation of the Qur'an and it need not be. It is mentioned in the Ahadeeth. To fully understand Islam you need to also have some knowledge of the Ahadeeth. While the Qu'ran is the Word of Allaah(swt) the Ahadeeth give us the guides as to how the Qu'ran was followed and what is to be followed by Muslims. Al-Quds came under Muslim rule in 638 AD to which which time it had been under Christian rule for nearly 400 years and Jews were forbidden to enter it until after Islamic rule was established. Orthodox Jews will not enter it as they believe a Jew is not to return to Beit Ha-Mikdash until the building of the 3rd temple. It is also the point from which Muhammad(PBUH) ascended to Heaven during "The Night Journey" This is mentioned in the Qu'ran in Surat: Al-Isra,It says Muhammad's(PBUH) Night Journey began at the Furthest Mosque, Muhammad(PBUH) in the Hadeeth tells us the furthest Mosque where he Ascended to heaven from is al-Aqsa in Al-Quds.

[Pygoscelis]

How do you know? :)

What's your solution?

(I would like any solution that solves this problem in a fair way)

My solution is to give them a common threat to band them together. I am sick of both Israel and Palestine. I would tell them that they have X years to make peace and get along or we destroy them both.

See now? You don't like my solution. :)

[shuraimfan4lyf]

My solution is to give them a common threat to band them together. I am sick of both Israel and Palestine. I would tell them that they have X years to make peace and get along or we destroy them both.

See now? You don't like my solution. :)

Who is "we"?? You have atheist army thats preparing for a operation If Palestinian and the Zionist dont negotiate? LOL..

[Woodrow]

My solution is to give them a common threat to band them together. I am sick of both Israel and Palestine. I would tell them that they have X years to make peace and get along or we destroy them both.

See now? You don't like my solution. :)

As much as I dislike your solution, I think I understand your logic behind it. But, it would only work if neither side was willing to die for what it believes. That threat would not strike any fear into the hearts of a Palestinian, death at the hands of a third party is an acceptable alternative to life under oppression.

[Argamemnon]

My solution is to give them a common threat to band them together. I am sick of both Israel and Palestine. I would tell them that they have X years to make peace and get along or we destroy them both.

See now? You don't like my solution. :)

The Palestinians are under occupation and complete Israeli domination. There is nothing they can do to achieve peace as long as Israel doesn't want and enjoys U.S. support.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

Israel bombs Gaza in night raid wounding two seriously
Page last updated at 8:07 GMT, Wednesday, 26 May 2010 9:07 UK

The Israeli air force bombed a target in the north of Gaza and struck tunnels in the south, near the border with Egypt.

Palestinian medical sources told reporters that about 22 people had been injured, two seriously.

The attacks come a day after militants in Gaza fired mortars into Israel.

One of the seriously wounded Palestinians was 15, Palestinian medical sources said.

The Israeli Defense Forces confirmed the attacks in Beit Hanoun, east of Gaza City, and Rafah in the south.

"The tunnels were dug 1km from the security fence and were intended for infiltrating into Israel and executing terror attacks," a spokesman told the news agency Agence France Presse.

The attacks come just hours after a donkey cart carrying dynamite exploded on the border between Gaza and Israel.

The donkey was killed in the explosion, which was aimed at blowing a hole in the security fence.

Militants later fired two mortars into Israel, but there were no reported casualties.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

Barack Obama is to ask the US Congress for an extra $200m in military aid to help Israel get a short-range rocket defence system in place.
The system is designed to shoot down mortars and rockets from Gaza or Southern Lebanon with guided missiles.

The system, called Iron Dome, has gone through testing and installation will start later this year.

According to US State Department figures, direct military aid to Israel was $2.55bn in 2009.
This is set to increase to $3.15bn in 2018.

Easing tensions

A White House spokesman reaffirmed what he called the administration's "unshakeable commitment" to Israel's security - adding that Mr Obama recognised the threat posed by missiles and rockets fired by Hamas and Hezbollah.

Iron Dome was conceived and developed in Israel following the Lebanon war of 2006, during which Hezbollah launched about 4,000 rockets into northern Israel.

Southern Israel has also come under fire, with thousands of rockets and mortars fired by Palestinian militants.

Israel completed tests on the system in January. Officials say the next phase in its development is its integration into the Israeli army.

A BBC correspondent in Washington, Steve Kingstone, says Washington may be acting now to ease the recent tensions in its relations with Israel.

In March a diplomatic row erupted when approval was granted for new homes for Jews in occupied east Jerusalem. The decision came during a visit to the city by the US Vice-President Joe Biden.

The announcement on US funding for Iron Dome coincides with the resumption of indirect talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

[Woodrow]

Barack Obama is to ask the US Congress for an extra $200m in military aid to help Israel get a short-range rocket defence system in place.
The system is designed to shoot down mortars and rockets from Gaza or Southern Lebanon with guided missiles.

The system, called Iron Dome, has gone through testing and installation will start later this year.

According to US State Department figures, direct military aid to Israel was $2.55bn in 2009.
This is set to increase to $3.15bn in 2018.

Easing tensions

A White House spokesman reaffirmed what he called the administration's "unshakeable commitment" to Israel's security - adding that Mr Obama recognised the threat posed by missiles and rockets fired by Hamas and Hezbollah.

Iron Dome was conceived and developed in Israel following the Lebanon war of 2006, during which Hezbollah launched about 4,000 rockets into northern Israel.

Southern Israel has also come under fire, with thousands of rockets and mortars fired by Palestinian militants.

Israel completed tests on the system in January. Officials say the next phase in its development is its integration into the Israeli army.

A BBC correspondent in Washington, Steve Kingstone, says Washington may be acting now to ease the recent tensions in its relations with Israel.

In March a diplomatic row erupted when approval was granted for new homes for Jews in occupied east Jerusalem. The decision came during a visit to the city by the US Vice-President Joe Biden.

The announcement on US funding for Iron Dome coincides with the resumption of indirect talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

Israel is a very expensive puppy to feed. To those who desire to see the USA destroyed. Your dream will probably happen much faster than you imagine. I would not be surprised if it turns out to be Israel that destroys us as soon as it grows big enough to bite the hand that is feeding it. Greedy puppies grow up to be demanding dogs.

[aadil77]

As much as I dislike your solution, I think I understand your logic behind it. But, it would only work if neither side was willing to die for what it believes. That threat would not strike any fear into the hearts of a Palestinian, death at the hands of a third party is an acceptable alternative to life under oppression.

True, I would rather die than live oppressed, constantly degraded, humilated and treated like animals in a cage

[shuraimfan4lyf]

Israel is a very expensive puppy to feed. To those who desire to see the USA destroyed. Your dream will probably happen much faster than you imagine. I would not be surprised if it turns out to be Israel that destroys us as soon as it grows big enough to bite the hand that is feeding it. Greedy puppies grow up to be demanding dogs.

Lol that is really true. But I dont think Israel can do anything without US help, imagine if USA completlely leaves their support and sour their so called pathetic friendship. Israel will run around the world crying like a little beggar looking for money and support. I think USA will eventually stop supporting them, but not anytime soon.

[Woodrow]

Lol that is really true. But I dont think Israel can do anything without US help, imagine if USA completlely leaves their support and sour their so called pathetic friendship. Israel will run around the world crying like a little beggar looking for money and support. I think USA will eventually stop supporting them, but not anytime soon.

Very soon the USA will have no choice. Israel is fast becoming more powerful than the US. We will soon need aid from them if our economy keeps dropping.

srael produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people -- as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the US. Israel with
7 million people attracted $2 billion in venture capital in 2008, as much venture capital that flowed in the United Kingdom with 61 million people, and as much that flowed into Germany and France with 145 million people.


Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

Now in terms of military power we are resonably certain Israel has a minimum of 200 nukes stock piled. What that means is they are the 3rd largest nuclear power in the world. While nukes are basically useless when in the hands of a sane person in the hands of a tyrant that has no qualms for using them, they eliminate the need for a large number of soldiers. One nuke can do more damage than the standing army of most nations. Nearly every country on earth can be destroyed with a single nuke.

Israel is quite powerful and it is stupid that we continue to support them. It is dumb to feed the dog that might kill your chickens.

All we are doing now is feeding them until they are big enough to think they can destroy us. Those rich, power hungry xxxx's should be sending aid to the US instead of expecting us to feed them. I personally know people right here in the USA that have been unemployed for their entire life, have to beg for or find food, have no utilities or health care and the USA government refuses to give them 1 penny in aid. Simply because they are living on the Pine Ridge Reservation.

[Pygoscelis]

Who is "we"?? You have atheist army thats preparing for a operation If Palestinian and the Zionist dont negotiate? LOL..

Yes, we are massing forces in Antarctica. Shh, don't tell anybody. Its a secret.

[Pygoscelis]

As much as I dislike your solution, I think I understand your logic behind it. But, it would only work if neither side was willing to die for what it believes. That threat would not strike any fear into the hearts of a Palestinian, death at the hands of a third party is an acceptable alternative to life under oppression.

Well either way works for me. I'd prefer they make peace in face of the common threat, but I'll accept them both ceasing to be, and then we can have peace in the region. Maybe give the land to Greenland or somebody like that, who'll truly appreciate and share it. ;D

Also keep in mind that Israel would also face this threat of outside extermination. It may prompt them to compromise in favor of the palestinians. The only way Greenland wins is if both sides are prepared to die instead of compromise.

[Woodrow]

Well either way works for me. I'd prefer they make peace in face of the common threat, but I'll accept them both ceasing to be, and then we can have peace in the region. Maybe give the land to Greenland or somebody like that, who'll truly appreciate and share it. ;D

Also keep in mind that Israel would also face this threat of outside extermination. It may prompt them to compromise in favor of the palestinians. The only way Greenland wins is if both sides are prepared to die instead of compromise.

One of my fears is that if Peace does not come to the region your scenario may come true, especially if a loose cannon dictator who doesn't give a hoot about either Muslims or Jews gains nuclear superiority. ie A lunatic gains control of China.

[Pygoscelis]

It could happen but I don't think in China. China is pretty stable (if a bit opressive).

[marwen]

It could happen but I don't think in China. China is pretty stable (if a bit opressive).

Ok Pygo, your solution looks interesting, but who will do it and for what reason. The country which will do it will at least lose part of his military forces to achieve that solution, so what is the outcome of such a war ? Peace ? who cares about peace?

[Woodrow]

It could happen but I don't think in China. China is pretty stable (if a bit opressive).

At the moment China is very stable. Oppressive yes, but not insane. But the door is open for the probability that it is only a matter of time before a egotistical maniac along the lines of Hitler or Stalin will take the reigns of control over a Super power Nation. Not necessarily China, China just came to mind because of their general lack of respect for human rights.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

The situation regarding jerusalem and palestian will not be solved until all the Muslims become united as there is no unity between Muslims countries at the moment as all their governments are being used by the westerns.

This is not exactly true as one has to understand what it is that prevents the Muslims to unite.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

The who is difficult to identify because it most likely is not a single entity, but rather separate greedy groups. some are stock holders in munition factories, some will be unsuspecting pawns who are being used. Others may be well planned bureaucrats lining their own pockets. If we are to give him a name it would be GREED and he will be found in the faces of greedy people who have no concern for the source of their wealth he crawls on his belly over the land of every nation. To kill this monster his source of money must end. Bring an end to the war profit and the war will end.

I do not know how to end it, I only know that each of us must not be a source of income for this monster.

Well. This is indeed a problem - as it makes the solution impractical.

I think that we have a rather problematic view on money which views money as evil.

This makes life too easy for us.

Money is not evil as it is with money that we buy tomatoes and rice in the store.

However, most people get less money than they should - because other people
take more than they should - without deserving it.

It is this people which are the problem. These people are not evil in the classical
sense of the word but are rather mis-educated.

They are miseducated because they have never received religious education.

However, they did not receive religious education because their parents did not give it
to them - and the reason the parents didn't give it to them is because they see religion as
violent.

So - its a loop.

It is up to religious people to take the responsibility and make sure that the next generation or
even this generation would receive a peaceful and complete religious education so that in the
future we could have peace.

Greed, like you say, could only be fought by the community with religion. Strong communities - strong
leadership - strong influence.

[Supreme]

It could happen but I don't think in China. China is pretty stable (if a bit opressive).

Well, China couldn't really take over the region anyway. Not unless the Chinese have a burning desire to see Beijing bathed in thermonuclear radiation.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

At the moment China is very stable. Oppressive yes, but not insane. But the door is open for the probability that it is only a matter of time before a egotistical maniac along the lines of Hitler or Stalin will take the reigns of control over a Super power Nation. Not necessarily China, China just came to mind because of their general lack of respect for human rights.

Hopefully that maniac isnt Ahmadinejad..

[Darth Ultor]

Ahmedinejad is a pawn of the Mullahs.

[IslamicRevival]

Hopefully that maniac isnt Ahmadinejad..

Long live Iran, The Iranians are one of a handful nations who represent us Muslims and stand up for us. Yes the majority are Shia, but put this issue aside and you will find they are a valuable asset to the Muslim Ummah as a whole

[Supreme]

Well either way works for me. I'd prefer they make peace in face of the common threat, but I'll accept them both ceasing to be, and then we can have peace in the region. Maybe give the land to Greenland or somebody like that, who'll truly appreciate and share it. ;D

Also keep in mind that Israel would also face this threat of outside extermination. It may prompt them to compromise in favor of the palestinians. The only way Greenland wins is if both sides are prepared to die instead of compromise.

What does Greenland have to do with it?

It is us British who should rightfully be given the land. We were the last empire there, and there was peace, prosperity and happiness in the land. Greenland just isn't as experience in these things as we British are. I think we pretty good job of you in Canada, what, with keeping the French out.

[Woodrow]

I think we pretty good job of you in Canada, what, with keeping the French out.

Have you ever been to Quebec? Actually I love Quebec, but it is more French than Paris. French, in a way, more like the France of the 1800s

[Supreme]

Have you ever been to Quebec? Actually I love Quebec, but it is more French than Paris. French, in a way, more like the France of the 1800s

Quebec was allowed to keep its language and French roots at the mercy of the British Crown. We kicked the French out of Canada, America, India, and even France on some occasions. Perhaps it's this (understandable) inferiority complex that makes the French nation so intolerant with regards to Islam today.

[Woodrow]

Quebec was allowed to keep its language and French roots at the mercy of the British Crown. We kicked the French out of Canada, America, India, and even France on some occasions. Perhaps it's this (understandable) inferiority complex that makes the French nation so intolerant with regards to Islam today.

But the French are such a funny enemy if you are fighting a war against them. We have been allied with them every since the war of 1812. They sold us a nice piece of land they really didn't own at a very cheap price. Of course with them as allies there have been a few times it eliminated our need to have any enemies.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

I know its a bit off-topic, but French also helped the Confederates in the American Civil War.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

But the French are such a funny enemy if you are fighting a war against them. We have been allied with them every since the war of 1812. They sold us a nice piece of land they really didn't own at a very cheap price. Of course with them as allies there have been a few times it eliminated our need to have any enemies.

Yeah they sold the original Louisiana for like $15 Million, that was big stupid mistake by French and good purchase by USA..

[Woodrow]

I know its a bit off-topic, but French also helped the Confederates in the American Civil War.

True and it did create some friction that still exists in a few States. Now to relate this to Israel. Quite simply the USA never could and still can not afford to "Help" nations on the other side of the world, not only financially but also from a point of knowledge. We often make the error of damaging or destroying the people of other nations in our ill informed decisions on who to help and what help is needed. We never should have tried to take on the role of being the "Big Brother". Our efforts have only resulted in hurting innocent people.

[Woodrow]

Yeah they sold the original Louisiana for like $15 Million, that was big stupid mistake by French and good purchase by USA..

worse yet, it did not belong to the French, it belonged to the Comanche, Kiowa, Cheyenne, Lakotah and many other lawful occupants of the land.

[Pygoscelis]

Ok Pygo, your solution looks interesting, but who will do it and for what reason. The country which will do it will at least lose part of his military forces to achieve that solution, so what is the outcome of such a war ? Peace ? who cares about peace?

Actually there is no need to lose any military forces if we don't wish to discriminate between who there lives and who there doesn't, and if we don't plan to occupy the are afterwards. It can all be done quite remotely.

[Abdul Wahid]

Well well well.

The Zionists up to their old tricks again. Attacking innocent people and killing them. Then trying to justify it.

The biggest terrorists in the world. The Western world will no doubt sweep it under the carpet.

[marwen]

I'm not just using the recent events to make Israel look bad. But I just want to say that's Israel and it's always like that, no surprises.

[Woodrow]

Please post all replies about this sickening attack on the aid ship on this new thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...activists.html