Usama bin Ladin - “A Call to Jihad to Halt the Aggression on Gaza”

[Periwinkle18]

Bin Laden: U.S. Decline Fueled Gaza Attack

CBS News: Israel Attacked Because Of America's Fading Dominance, End Of Bush Mandate, Al Qaeda Boss Says

LONDON, Jan. 14, 2009



Al Qaeda boss Osama bin Laden says the decline of America's dominance on the world stage was one of the main factors which prompted Israel to launch its offensive in Gaza.

"The great and swift decline in America's influence is one of the most important motivations for Israelis to wage such a barbaric attack on Gaza, in a bid to try and make use of the last days of (President) Bush's mandate and the neo-conservatives," he says.

The message was delivered in a speech downloaded Wednesday by CBS News from a Web site frequently used to disseminate al Qaeda propaganda. The audio was produced by al Qaeda's media wing, as-Sahab.

It was impossible to confirm the authenticity of the recording, but the voice appeared to be that of the terror group's leader. The audio has not been heard before. The last known audio address from bin Laden was released on May 18, 2008.

The audio, about 22 minutes long, is titled: "A Call for Jihad to Stop the Aggression on Gaza. The message of Sheikh Osama Bin Laden to the Muslim Ummah."

"Israelis are in a rush to get rid of their enemies in Gaza, and replace them with (Palestinian President Mahmoud) Abbas and his administration, in order for him to protect their backs. They thus carried out this horrific butchery before the end of Bush's term in office before the American weakness shows even more."

Its release came on the 19th day of Israel's military campaign in the Gaza Strip targeting Hamas militants, which Palestinian doctors say has left 940 people dead, less than half of whom were combatants.

Bin Laden says Mr. Bush has left President-elect Barack Obama with "two bitter choices," and wonders aloud whether the next American leader will be able to keep up the fight against al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

"Can America keep up the war with us for more decades to come? All reports and analysis indicate that this is not possible. In fact, 75 percent of American people are happy with the departure of the president who got them into wars they could not possibly win."

Bin Laden goes on to say President Bush "drowned" the American people in economic woes and "left his successor a difficult legacy, and left him one of two bitter choices… The worst heritage is when a man inherits a long guerrilla warfare with a persevering, patient enemy - a war that is funded by usury. If he (Obama) withdraws from the war, that would be a military defeat, and if he goes on with it, he'll drown in economic crisis."

The terrorist leader calls for Jihad, saying it is the only way to defeat the "Zionists" and liberate the Gaza Strip.

Bin Laden calls on Muslims worldwide to support the cause, and reissues his plea for donations. "Your duty is to support the Mujahideen with money and men. I have experienced Jihad myself and I know how costly it can be. The Zakat (tithe) of one affluent Muslim merchant is enough to finance all the Jihadi front against our enemies."

Bin Laden said the current global situation offered a good opportunity to purge Muslim countries of Western influence. "Oh, Muslim Ummah (nation), those wars and crisis represent a great opportunity, and wise men would not let it slip away from them. You have a great chance now to overthrow the injustice and the tyranny that has overwhelmed you for decades."

Bin Laden closed his speech by addressing Palestinians in Gaza. "My brothers in Palestine, you have suffered a lot, and your fathers before you, for nine whole decades. Muslims sympathize with you, for what they see and hear. We, the Mujahideen, sympathize with you, too, much more than anyone else… Because the Mujahideen lead the same kind of life that you lead; they are bombed the same way you are bombed, from the same airplanes, they lose their children just like you do."

Also in the address, bin Laden predicts that Mr. Obama will be unable to solve the economic problems facing America.

Quoting Mr. Obama's vice-presidential pick, Joe Biden, bin Laden says, "Here’s Biden, the deputy of the newly elected president, saying: 'The crisis is even worse than we expected, and the entire American economy is in peril.'”

It was the latest attack on Mr. Obama by an al Qaeda figurehead. Bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, accused Mr. Obama of standing behind the "massacre of Gaza" in an audio released earlier this month.

Bin Laden also taunts President Bush over his pledge to abolish terrorism and kill or arrest terrorist leaders - a promise the outgoing American president couldn't keep, according to the al Qaeda chief.

"A group of your sons declared Jihad on that single power, the Hitler of our time," bin Laden said. "We thus broke its horn, struck his fortress and demolished his tower. He thus became enraged and said he would bring the leaders of the Mujahideen, dead or alive, to regain America's stature in the world and set it as an example for everybody."

Source : http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4720357.shtml

[^[AnKaBooT]^]

hmmm bin laden woke up yay i was w8ting for binladen to answer
now i realised that keeping quiet patiently will get u the answer.

[Olive]

Yes... I was wondering where he was.

[Dawud_uk]

Yes... I was wondering where he was.

assalaamu alaykum,

i am assuming he doesnt have a broadband connection and live cameras wherever he is so it was probably recorded a few days ago and then they would need to get the coverage to other brothers to send out.

its not like he can call a press conference and expect the media to turn up in an hour so he can make a statement like a western politician can.

assalaamu alaykum,

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[Umar001]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah O Muslims.

Hope you are well.

I have taken the title Shaykh out of the title since I do not think we refer to Usama Bin Laden as a Shaykh on here, nor do we encourage others to.

Br.al-Habeshi

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:salamext:

Again, I have no intention to debate on the matter. Al-'Ilmu qabla al-qawli wal-'amal (knowledge precedes speech and action). Whoever disagrees, to him his way. However, this is what some of the 'Ulamaa have to say on the condition of Usaama bin Laadin:

فتاوى العلماء في أسامة بن لادن

Here is a translation of some of these fataawa, with their sources.

The Position of the Scholars Regarding Osama Bin Laden



فَسۡـَٔلُوٓاْ أَهۡلَ ٱلذِّڪۡرِ إِن كُنتُمۡ لَا تَعۡلَمُونَ

"...so ask the people of the Reminder [Scholars] if you do not know." [21:7]

wAllaahu A'lam.

[doorster]

wa alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullah wa barakat

:salamext:

Again, I have no intention to debate on the matter. Al-'Ilmu qabla al-qawli wal-'amal (knowledge precedes speech and action). Whoever disagrees, to him his way. However, this is what some of the 'Ulamaa have to say on the condition of Usaama bin Laadin:

فتاوى العلماء في أسامة بن لادن

Here is a translation of some of these fataawa, with their sources.

The Position of the Scholars Regarding Osama Bin Laden



فَسۡـَٔلُوٓاْ أَهۡلَ ٱلذِّڪۡرِ إِن كُنتُمۡ لَا تَعۡلَمُونَ

"...so ask the people of the Reminder [Scholars] if you do not know." [21:7]

wAllaahu A'lam.

^^ QFT

Osama Bin Laden is someone, who is spreading [or is being used to spread] corruption on earth, [he is] following evil and destructive ways

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

one doesnt need to agree with everyone done by osama bin ladin to see how this is a little unfair, because of the rules of the forum then people can criticise him and put up fataawah against him but others couldnt defend him even if they dont agree with everything he does or says or post fataawah from ulema who support his positions for fear or breaking the rules.

as much as this feels wrong, that a brother can be attacked in this way and not defended, i understand the forums strict rules on this so they dont get shut down so have to accept it.

there are however many different positions from the ulema other than that given by the official saudi government scholars and people are free to go look them up and learn for themselves regarding osama bin ladin, the rulers in the muslim lands and what are islams true teachings on jihad.

assalaamu alaykum,

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:salamext:

I would just like to point out that shaykh Muqbil (rahimahullaah) was not an 'official saudi scholar', rather he was Yemeni, and even openly criticised the Saudi Government in the past. Although, he recanted his views, in his last tape - due to the many things he witnessed there over the last year or so of his life. And neither are the Saudi 'Ulamaa 'government' scholars. Yet it is not surprising to see the oolil-'ilm being slandered. But, as the saying goes;

لا يضر السحاب بنبح الكلاب
The clouds are not harmed by the barking of the dogs

[Dawud_uk]

:salamext:

I would just like to point out that shaykh Muqbil (rahimahullaah) was not an 'official saudi scholar', rather he was Yemeni, and even openly criticised the Saudi Government in the past. Although, he recanted his views, in his last tape - due to the many things he witnessed there over the last year or so of his life. And neither are the Saudi 'Ulamaa 'government' scholars. Yet it is not surprising to see the oolil-'ilm being slandered. But, as the saying goes;

لا يضر السحاب بنبح الكلاب
The clouds are not harmed by the barking of the dogs

as i was banned for quite a while for quite a simular discussion i wont be taking part but i thank for the clarification regarding sheikh muqbil.

[Periwinkle18]

hmmm bin laden woke up yay i was w8ting for binladen to answer
now i realised that keeping quiet patiently will get u the answer.

i was waiting too.

[Vito]

Thats exactly what I was thinking in regards to why Israel is causing all this destruction over there

[Woodrow]

Let us keep this discussion on topic and not become an excuse to promote aggression. Bin Laden is a news worthy persona and as such it is ok to mention his words that do spark world attention.

But, keep all things in perspective. Do not post links to hate sites of any type. Keep any posting to facts and if something is your opinion state it is your opinion.



In plan English, keep the peace and do not promote aggression or quote things that are clearly words that are intended to promote violence.

[Fishman]

:sl:
Bin Laden makes lots of so-called 'calls to Jihad' though. Whilst it is a bit worrying that he seems to be alive and well, this isn't really unexpected.
:w:

[Woodrow]

Bin Laden brings up a good point in his statement.

Al Qaeda boss Osama bin Laden says the decline of America's dominance on the world stage was one of the main factors which prompted Israel to launch its offensive in Gaza.

"The great and swift decline in America's influence is one of the most important motivations for Israelis to wage such a barbaric attack on Gaza, in a bid to try and make use of the last days of (President) Bush's mandate and the neo-conservatives," he says.

To those that do not understand the role of a President in the USA, it does seem that the ideal time for any nation to make a move is during the change of Presidents. It isn't quite that simple. However, I can understand why many would believe that to be true and it does seem logical that Olmert would grab this particular time to go on the aggressive.

[doorster]

Bin Laden brings up a good point in his statement.

"The great and swift decline in America's influence is one of the most important motivations for Israelis to wage such a barbaric attack on Gaza, in a bid to try and make use of the last days of (President) Bush's mandate and the neo-conservatives," he says.

To those that do not understand the role of a President in the USA, it does seem that the ideal time for any nation to make a move is during the change of Presidents. It isn't quite that simple. However, I can understand why many would believe that to be true and it does seem logical that Olmert would grab this particular time to go on the aggressive.

I'm afraid you making rather too hasty a judgement. Obama can't really say much at present without being seen to be stepping on the toes of the outgoing administration. Pretty much whatever he might say would look bad in that context and might well compromise diplomatic activity he is not - yet - aware of or party to.

If you want a more hopeful sign, I suspect one reason for the timing of the Israeli action was precisely to get it done before Obama takes office.

déjà vu

[sur]

Osama is FAKE. Even if he's real he is reason behind thousands of Afghanis murdered by americans.
He is CIA agent.
Before 911 he was treated in american hospital in UAE.
Then he was safely escorted into afghanistan to help with 911 scam.

Wake up ppl living in ur dreams. Look at bigger picture.

[IslamicRevival]

The more you provoke these guys the more likely theres going to be a repeat of 9/11

[Daffodil]

I saw a clip of bush being interviewed about his last few weeks/days as president and they were talking about sheikh Osama. The interviewer was asking him how he still hasnt found Bin Laden and how does he feel about it etc. The look on Bush's face was priceless. He looked so enraged and was saying, We will find him, dead or alive, we will find him. He looked defeated.

Subhanallah, they plan and Allah swt plans and he is the best of planners. They still havent found him. May Allah swt preserve him and be the leading cause of victory to the Muslims globally ameen. (I am not condoning terrorism, neither am I promoting it. Bush is the terrorist, not the freedom fighters)

[Trumble]

The look on Bush's face was priceless. He looked so enraged and was saying, We will find him, dead or alive, we will find him. He looked defeated.

Your hero murdered 2,700 innocent people on Bush's patch.. what did you expect his reaction to be?

[IslamicRevival]

Your hero murdered 2,700 innocent people on Bush's patch.. what did you expect his reaction to be?

As if Bush gives 2hoots about "people"

How many people did he massacre In Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine (by sending weapons to israel and giving them the go ahead)?

The world is full of Bin Ladens because of Bush And America

[IslamicRevival]

Unbelievable isn't it?

Some people these days...:raging:

[sur]

.....May Allah swt preserve him and be the leading cause of victory to the Muslims globally ameen.

WOW... person whose stubernness caused death of hundreds of thousands of innocent muslims (Afghanis & later Iraqis)... & u r praying for him!!!!!. May be u r not condoning terrorism as u said , BUT u r definitely asking GOD to bless a person who could have saved muslim from dying by surrendering himself.


Warning of images which may disturb viewer.
























He refused to surrender & now we have:-

By praying for his preservation, u r asking for more such pictures , i guess..

[Trumble]

Let's stay on topic. Daffodil's sig includes the plea "Bring back the Taliban". It should be painfully obvious even to her that the one person most directly responsible for them needing 'bringing back' was bin Laden. Far from a masterpiece of planning, 9/11 was one of the grossest miscalculations in history as it led directly to the fall of the Taliban and the deaths of many more thousands of innocents. The American reaction was, it seems, totally predictable to everybody but the great 'master planner' himself.

[Vito]

Yea I saw a clip of the interview when he was asked about bin laden. I think that was with larry king no?

[NobleMuslimUK]

We can call Osama sheikh as its a term used for someone old and not only a scholar.
By the way this is all coming from the zionazi media so its all a fake.
Bush was just a puppet in all this, he said as he was told and he got paid end of story.
9/11 was an inside job theres umpty number of documentaries on this and hollywood movies depicting this fact how these inside jobs are carried and what motives are behind them.
The taliban were very ignorant of many islamic facts, they were bringing about a cultural islam about, e.g not allowing girls to get an education, forcing weak muslims into things they wudnt normally do such as no watching of tv and no listening to music, asking women to be covered in burqas that are head to toe, opening doors for other illicit activities and also forcing men to grow a beard, things a muslim should do voluntarily.
Alhamdulillah Allah swt is dealing with these opressors, America is hit the worst with a recession Alhamdulillah soon shud be a 3rd world country Inshallah.

[Daffodil]

Sur. You think that the kuffar hate Islam because of Sheikh Osaama?

Do you seriously think Muslims will be able to live peacefull if this one man surrenders?

[Triumphant]

Your hero murdered 2,700 innocent people on Bush's patch.. what did you expect his reaction to be?

No he didn't 9/11 was an inside job. Our own usa government commited 9/11 not Muslims. I recommend you Google operation false flag.

[Trumble]

No he didn't 9/11 was an inside job. Our own usa government commited 9/11 not Muslims. I recommend you Google operation false flag.

Sorry, for me that particular conspiracy theory is right up there with little gray men at Area 51 and Elvis still being alive. It's a fairy story that had lost any credibility (not that it ever had much) by the third time OBL actually confessed. Or was it the fourth.. :rollseyes

[S1aveofA11ah]

No, I merely suggested a reason for his reaction that really should have been obvious. I suggest you, and others, read rather more carefully.

Let's stay on topic. Daffodil's sig includes the plea "Bring back the Taliban". It should be painfully obvious even to her that the one person most directly responsible for them needing 'bringing back' was bin Laden. Far from a masterpiece of planning, 9/11 was one of the grossest miscalculations in history as it led directly to the fall of the Taliban and the deaths of many more thousands of innocents. The American reaction was, it seems, totally predictable to everybody but the great 'master planner' himself.

Lots of them have died but they have not died out...

[Daffodil]

Lots of them have died but they have not died out...

If thats the case they wouldnt be kicking so much kuffar butt hence why theyre sending the troops from Iraq to afghanistan. Theyll still whimp out and give in eventually. Kafir infidel- "Oh no, my soldier buddy hurt his toe, right thats it lets leave this compound and go back to base to try and muster up some courage"

[S1aveofA11ah]

If thats the case they wouldnt be kicking so much kuffar butt hence why theyre sending the troops from Iraq to afghanistan. Theyll still whimp out and give in eventually. Kafir infidel- "Oh no, my soldier buddy hurt his toe, right thats it lets leave this compound and go back to base to try and muster up some courage"

Sorry are you refuting my point?

[doorster]

"theyre sending the troops from Iraq to afghanistan" not because their toe is hurting but because there is a bigger prize waiting to be collected over the border.

[Trumble]

Lots of them have died but they have not died out...

Quite true. But my point is not that they have 'died out' nor whether they may be "kicking kuffar butt" or otherwise. It is that, were it not for OBLs monumental misjudgement, they would still be in power and UC/coalition troops would never have gone to Afghanistan.

[Keltoi]

With Obama you can expect an end to the Iraq distraction and a focus on Afghanistan.

[Triumphant]

Sorry, for me that particular conspiracy theory is right up there with little gray men at Area 51 and Elvis still being alive. It's a fairy story that had lost any credibility (not that it ever had much) by the third time OBL actually confessed. Or was it the fourth.. :rollseyes

You will never get it. So keep on being a Kafir.

[sur]

Sur. You think that the kuffar hate Islam because of Sheikh Osaama?

Do you seriously think Muslims will be able to live peacefull if this one man surrenders?

No i don't think so, BUT i won't pray for this man.

Because if he is "for real" then he is reason behind muslims dying & if he's NOT what ppl think he is & is just a puppet playing in hands of our enemies then again he's partner with them. So in any case i won't pray for such a person. I pray he be caught dead or alive so that america would loose at least one excuse to kill muslims.

[doorster]

No i don't think so, BUT i won't pray for this man.

Because if he is "for real" then he is reason behind Muslims dying & if he's NOT what ppl think he is & is just a puppet playing in hands of our enemies then again he's partner with them. So in any case i won't pray for such a person. I pray he be caught dead or alive so that would loose at least one excuse to kill Muslims.

unless they have him safely tucked away somewhere ready to come out when there is a need for him. can you imagine that in the age when Americans can observe a mouse in its hole from eye in the sky, they keep missing him?

[Keltoi]

unless they have him safely tucked away somewhere ready to come out when there is a need for him. can you imagine that in the age when Americans can observe a mouse in its hole from eye in the sky, they keep missing him?

You have to know where to look first. Plus, I doubt he comes out in the open much, and when he does I doubt he looks like Bin Laden.

[^[AnKaBooT]^]

Sur. You think that the kuffar hate Islam because of Sheikh Osaama?

Do you seriously think Muslims will be able to live peacefull if this one man surrenders?

:sl:
VERRY TRUE
:w:

Peace be upon those who follow the right guidance.

[Q8sobieski]

I did not see the interview with George Bush but I have seen him interviewed many times. Of course he wanted to capture OBL. OBL was responsible for almost 3000 people being killed on 9-11 (despite what Triumphant says) and the vast majority of them were innocent people (only the Pentagon was a legitimate target under the Rules of Land Warfare). I am sure that Bush regrets not capturing OBL. Bush's job is to protect Americans! FIRST AND FOREMOST and we should give him credit for doing that. There have been no attacks on US soil since 9-11 whereas there have been horrible attacks in London, Madrid, Moscow, Beslan, Bali, and Saudi Arabia. And further attacks in the US, UK, Germany, Spain, and Canada have all been thwarted. I think, in a few years, people will look back fondly on "W".

If thats the case they wouldnt be kicking so much kuffar butt hence why theyre sending the troops from Iraq to afghanistan. Theyll still whimp out and give in eventually. Kafir infidel- "Oh no, my soldier buddy hurt his toe, right thats it lets leave this compound and go back to base to try and muster up some courage"

As another poster mentioned, "the real prize is over the border."

Furthermore, Daffodil, let me ask you: By continually fighting with NATO forces in Afghanistan, the Mujahideen draw their own civilians into the crossfire (some say this is a deliberate tactic) causing hundreds of civilian deaths in order to kill 1 or 2 kafr soldiers. Is this the sort of courage that you applaud? As of today, 981 kufr soldiers have died (combat-related) in Afghanistan since October 2001 (combat-related). Is this the noble Jihad that you want to see?

[aamirsaab]

I did not see the interview with George Bush but I have seen him interviewed many times. Of course he wanted to capture OBL. OBL was responsible for almost 3000 people being killed on 9-11 (despite what Triumphant says) and the vast majority of them were innocent people (only the Pentagon was a legitimate target under the Rules of Land Warfare). I am sure that Bush regrets not capturing OBL. Bush's job is to protect Americans! FIRST AND FOREMOST and we should give him credit for doing that. There have been no attacks on US soil since 9-11 whereas there have been horrible attacks in London, Madrid, Moscow, Beslan, Bali, and Saudi Arabia. And further attacks in the US, UK, Germany, Spain, and Canada have all been thwarted. I think, in a few years, people will look back fondly on "W".

8 years in afghanistan, 5 in Iraq? Is that what is neccessary for peace for one country? Don't you think that is a little sad and depressing that the only way for your country to have no arabs attacking it is by bombing two seperate arab countries into submission (one of which is comprised of sodding cavemen?)

Only things Bush will be remembered for are pointless deaths (that could have been avoided!), failing to capture OBL (how many videos has he sent to america?), Lying about WMD in Iraq and a size 10 aimed at his head.

What I will give him credit for though is his uncanny ability to manipulate emotion (albeit the easiest one: fear) on such a large scale (large enough to cause over ten times as many deaths as 9-11!).

Bravo, Bush - you good ol' genocidal maniac!

[Dawud_uk]

:sl:

getting back to the original post, is there any muslim that doubts the call to jihad in palestine being genuine and valid?

:sl:

[IslamicRevival]

:sl:

getting back to the original post, is there any muslim that doubts the call to jihad in palestine being genuine and valid?

:sl:

100% Valid in my opinion.

The Israeli terrorists have oppressed the Palestinians for far too long and its time to free them.

[AntiKarateKid]

I see it as valid. I would gladly go there and help treat people if I was a doctor.

As for a physical jihad... I am not so sure that fighting Israeli troops would be in the best interest of the people. It seems like for every 1 you kill, they kill 100 of yours. Is it worth it over land?

I may be wrong though.



On the topic though, I find it odd that Osama is calling for a jihad when his actions have made life harder for so many Muslims around the globe.


We are in a jihad already. A jihad to undo the damage to Islam that Osama has done.

[IslamicRevival]

I see it as valid. I would gladly go there and help treat people if I was a doctor.

As for a physical jihad... I am not so sure that fighting Israeli troops would be in the best interest of the people. It seems like for every 1 you kill, they kill 100 of yours. Is it worth it over land?

I may be wrong though.



On the topic though, I find it odd that Osama is calling for a jihad when his actions have made life harder for so many Muslims around the globe.


We are in a jihad already. A jihad to undo the damage to Islam that Osama has done.

I don't think we can blame it ALL on bin laden.

If someone provokes you... you are going to react.

America and the Zionist controlled media are to blame for the damage done.

[NobleMuslimUK]

Anti karate kid we are in a jihad(struggle) to undo the damage to islam this ummah has done as a whole by deviating from quran and sunnah its got nothing to do with Osama. The kuffar are just doing these things by coming out with this propaganda to get ignorant muslims emotional into doing something stupid or bringing out more draconian laws to make life difficult for muslims.

[AntiKarateKid]

I don't think we can blame it ALL on bin laden.

If someone provokes you... you are going to react.

America and the Zionist controlled media are to blame for the damage done.

There are proper ways of reaction. We shouldn't let our anger blind our judgment. The Prophet and his companions were provoked but they did not go around butchering both the oppressors and innocent.

Even the worst zionist or "evil" American is a possible convert. Remember the Quraish and how even the most vile of them became the greatest Muslims.

[Dawud_uk]

There are proper ways of reaction. We shouldn't let our anger blind our judgment. The Prophet and his companions were provoked but they did not go around butchering both the oppressors and innocent.

Even the worst zionist or "evil" American is a possible convert. Remember the Quraish and how even the most vile of them became the greatest Muslims.

it would perhaps help your education to see how the jews were judged after the battle of the trench and if you looked at the example of the siege engines used in the conquest of taif.

[AntiKarateKid]

it would perhaps help your education to see how the jews were judged after the battle of the trench and if you looked at the example of the siege engines used in the conquest of taif.

I'm half asleep brother, could you tell me?

[Dawud_uk]

I'm half asleep brother, could you tell me?

not without possibly getting banned, strange as that is given this is an islamic forum.

[AntiKarateKid]

not without possibly getting banned, strange as that is given this is an islamic forum.

Wait so you disagree with me?

[AntiKarateKid]

The Kaa'ba is worth more than one Muslim. It is a symbol to all mankind. Keeping that is worth dying for.

[Dawud_uk]

Wait so you disagree with me?

:sl:

i dont agree 100% with sheikh osama but i dont disagree 100% either, it is not a black and white issue and investigating the seige of taif and what was done with the jews after the battle of the trench will give you some extra insight into why this is not a black and white issue.

:sl:

[IceQueen~]

Something ineteresting about bin Laden: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...osamatape.html

And as for the blood of a Muslim being more precious than the Ka'bah- that was quoted by Sh. Tawfique Chowdhury. I'm not sure who he quoted though- whether it was a companion or a scholar.

[Qingu]

I saw a clip of bush being interviewed about his last few weeks/days as president and they were talking about sheikh Osama. The interviewer was asking him how he still hasnt found Bin Laden and how does he feel about it etc. The look on Bush's face was priceless. He looked so enraged and was saying, We will find him, dead or alive, we will find him. He looked defeated.

Subhanallah, they plan and Allah swt plans and he is the best of planners. They still havent found him. May Allah swt preserve him and be the leading cause of victory to the Muslims globally ameen. (I am not condoning terrorism, neither am I promoting it. Bush is the terrorist, not the freedom fighters)

Does crashing planes into buildings and killing 3,000 people count as terrorism? Because bin Laden supports that, and here you are supporting bin Laden.

Or are you one of those people who thinks 9/11 is a giant Jewish conspiracy or something?

It is interesting, as always, to come here and see so many Muslims openly declare support for bin Laden and al-Qaeda and other violent fanatics, while the moderators and admins look on with the occasional mild rebuke.

[Qingu]

100% Valid in my opinion.

The Israeli terrorists have oppressed the Palestinians for far too long and its time to free them.

And how on earth would a violent jihad free them?

I'd like an earnest answer, please. Osama bin Laden is calling for a violent jihad against Israeli interests. He wants Muslims to go fight Israelis and blow themselves up to kill Jews and Americans. What possible reason do you have for thinking this strategy would help the Palestinians at all?

Has violently attacking Israel (or America) ever worked to benefit the Palestinians, or Muslims in general?

[Qingu]

There are proper ways of reaction. We shouldn't let our anger blind our judgment. The Prophet and his companions were provoked but they did not go around butchering both the oppressors and innocent.

Even the worst zionist or "evil" American is a possible convert. Remember the Quraish and how even the most vile of them became the greatest Muslims.

AntiKarateKid, you know I've disagreed with you a lot on here. But not about this. I don't think it matters if you are a Muslim, Christian, or atheist to see that you are right here, because it's this simple:

Violence will not help Palestinians free themselves from occupation. It has never helped. It never will help.

Every time a suicide bomber following orders from bin Laden's jihad blows himself up to kill Israelis, Israel is just going to be more inclined to elect right-wing scumbags and respond with even more disproportionate violence.

Al-Qaeda flew planes into the World Trade Center and killed 3,000 people. Did this act of jihad help Muslims out at all? No—it provoked America. It gave Bush and the neocons an excuse to go to war, and otherwise peaceful Americans were so pissed off that they let him go to war for no reason. Violence begets violence.

If Islam is truly a religion of forgiveness and mercy, then I'm surprised there aren't more Muslims like AntiKarateKid on here, who reject violent revenge and holy wars for peaceful reconciliation.

[IceQueen~]

^What do you suggest Qingu? What do you think will be the best way to free the Palestinians from Isreal's terrorrism?

It's easy to say what NOT to do but what SHOULD be done?

[Keltoi]

^What do you suggest Qingu? What do you think will be the best way to free the Palestinians from Isreal's terrorrism?

It's easy to say what NOT to do but what SHOULD be done?

Just ponder for a second. Take what you believe about God, what you understand of God's Will, and apply it to the situation. Is violence the answer? Is it doing good things for the Palestinian people?

If one believes Israel to be at fault and responsible for the violence, is the answer to respond with like actions? If God is to have mercy on Palestinians, will that occur as a result of Hamas acting like Israelis? Does God view the death of an innocent Palestinian to be more important than the death of an innocent Jew?

What is the solution? Well, we know what isn't a solution, and that is violence. Violence creates violence.

[Ayesha Rana]

Sorry, for me that particular conspiracy theory is right up there with little gray men at Area 51 and Elvis still being alive. It's a fairy story that had lost any credibility (not that it ever had much) by the third time OBL actually confessed. Or was it the fourth.. :rollseyes

Well lets seee now, Who said he confessed? Oh yeah the 3rd video tape with the so-called Osama looking like he's put on about 50kg in a week and laughing very uncharacteristically and confessing to that which he denied in the other two tapes. And praising the two terrorists who did the hijacking, only what's this? He gets their names wrong. lol that was a fake video bro. Don't u look stuff up before you believe everything the Media tells you?

Your hero murdered 2,700 innocent people on Bush's patch.. what did you expect his reaction to be?

Your hero didn't do that. Have you watched 'The Great Illusion?'

And how many innocent muslims has Bush murdered? And what do u expect the Ummah's response to be?

If thats the case they wouldnt be kicking so much kuffar butt hence why theyre sending the troops from Iraq to afghanistan. Theyll still whimp out and give in eventually. Kafir infidel- "Oh no, my soldier buddy hurt his toe, right thats it lets leave this compound and go back to base to try and muster up some courage"

Hahahaha!

Sorry are you refuting my point?

Nope she isn't and neither am i lol!

No i don't think so, BUT i won't pray for this man.

Because if he is "for real" then he is reason behind muslims dying & if he's NOT what ppl think he is & is just a puppet playing in hands of our enemies then again he's partner with them. So in any case i won't pray for such a person. I pray he be caught dead or alive so that america would loose at least one excuse to kill muslims.

Sorry i can't help being disgusted here. Why should we let the American's get our brother? They will kill Muslims regardless so why should we hand over one man trying to please our enemy who is acting like a spoilt brat killing everybody because he can't get his 'sweetie' or the oil wells that Sheikh Osama refused them.

:sl:

getting back to the original post, is there any muslim that doubts the call to jihad in palestine being genuine and valid?

:sl:

I don't, where are our brothers?

Does crashing planes into buildings and killing 3,000 people count as terrorism? Because bin Laden supports that, and here you are supporting bin Laden.

Or are you one of those people who thinks 9/11 is a giant Jewish conspiracy or something?

It is interesting, as always, to come here and see so many Muslims openly declare support for bin Laden and al-Qaeda and other violent fanatics, while the moderators and admins look on with the occasional mild rebuke.

What's wrong with being one of those people?:)

I know the solution keltoi. It's Jihad

And Jihad means to struggle so don't start hiding under the table

[wth1257]

:sl:

getting back to the original post, is there any muslim that doubts the call to jihad in palestine being genuine and valid?

:sl:

Setting aside the question if such a call would be a good idea my question would be where in the world does Osama Bin Laden get the authority to make such a call? He is neither a Caliph nor even a religious scholar.

[wth1257]

Well lets seee now, Who said he confessed? Oh yeah the 3rd video tape with the so-called Osama looking like he's put on about 50kg in a week and laughing very uncharacteristically and confessing to that which he denied in the other two tapes. And praising the two terrorists who did the hijacking, only what's this? He gets their names wrong. lol that was a fake video bro. Don't u look stuff up before you believe everything the Media tells you?

Isin't it odd that the CIA would do such a horrid job of imitating him? I mean they have people who have dedicated their lives to studying this man yet they apparently, with all their billions of dollars and analysts could not pull off an even almost close imitation.

Sorry i can't help being disgusted here. Why should we let the American's get our brother? They will kill Muslims regardless so why should we hand over one man trying to please our enemy who is acting like a spoilt brat killing everybody because he can't get his 'sweetie' or the oil wells that Sheikh Osama refused them.

With all due respect you don't know much about American politics. The best thing that ever happened for the neocons was September 11th. I doubt any of them are glad it happened but politically it gave them a blank check. It also gave a blank check for Putin to step up his atrocities in Chechnya, China against their Muslim population, Israel against the Palestinians etc. Osama Bin Laden did not just murder 3,000 innocent people, Muslim amongst them, he also put the left in America way back and set the conditions for much of the horrible suffering we see in the Islamic world from Iraq and Palestine all the way to Chechnya and Uzbekistan. Now every authoritarian despot in a Muslim land can use the "war on terror" as justifications for all sorts of human rights abuses.

What's wrong with being one of those people?:)

Your free to believe anything you want, but the content of this belief is on par with bigfoot and the tooth fairy.

[wth1257]

If Islam is truly a religion of forgiveness and mercy, then I'm surprised there aren't more Muslims like AntiKarateKid on here, who reject violent revenge and holy wars for peaceful reconciliation.

The logic of that deduction breaks down pretty quickly with all due respect.

[I<3Bush]

[QUOTE=wth1257;1085348]Isin't it odd that the CIA would do such a horrid job of imitating him? I mean they have people who have dedicated their lives to studying this man yet they apparently, with all their billions of dollars and analysts could not pull off an even almost close imitation.
QUOTE]

Eh.. Their human, they make mistakes. Just look at 9/11

[Ayesha Rana]

Setting aside the question if such a call would be a good idea my question would be where in the world does Osama Bin Laden get the authority to make such a call? He is neither a Caliph nor even a religious scholar.

And who are you to question his authority? You're neither a muslim nor do you have enough knowledge of Islam and the situation to question what he does.

Isin't it odd that the CIA would do such a horrid job of imitating him? I mean they have people who have dedicated their lives to studying this man yet they apparently, with all their billions of dollars and analysts could not pull off an even almost close imitation.

Yes very odd, daft aren't they?
And u'd think with all their cleverness they would have changed the date that flashes up on the screen of the documentary that was released about 9/11. According to the date, they filmed that documentary 2 days before the event even took place:)

Your free to believe anything you want, but the content of this belief is on par with bigfoot and the tooth fairy.

of course i am free to believe what i want, i'm not brainwashed by the media and it's okay bro if you really want to believe in big foot and the tooth fairy, i won't tell:)

[wth1257]

And who are you to question his authority
You're neither a muslim nor do you have enough knowledge of Islam and the situation to question what he does.

I don't think I ever claimed to be a Muslim or an expert on Islam nor did I imply my disapproval of his call caried any religious weight whatsoever. I was under the impression in traditional Islamic law that not just any individual has the authority to call jihad. I think it is perfectly fair to ask what authority he has to call a jihad.

Yes very odd, daft aren't they?

I don't know, I've never been invited to visit them in Virginia:cry:

And u'd think with all their cleverness they would have changed the date that flashes up on the screen of the documentary that was released about 9/11. According to the date, they filmed that documentary 2 days before the event even took place:)

I don't know what you are talking about sorry.

of course i am free to believe what i want, i'm not brainwashed by the media and it's okay bro if you really want to believe in big foot and the tooth fairy, i won't tell:)

:D

Looking back at my last post I see it came off a lot more combative than I intended so I am sorry about that.

[Qingu]

^What do you suggest Qingu? What do you think will be the best way to free the Palestinians from Isreal's terrorrism?

It's easy to say what NOT to do but what SHOULD be done?

Here is what I would like to see from all sides:

Palestinians: Nonviolent resistance to Israeli aggression. It worked for blacks in America. It worked for Indians against the British. It can work for the Palestinians against the Israelis.

I say this purely for a practical reason: Arabs have lost every war they fought against Israel for the past 60 years. There is no possible military situation in which the Palestinians, or even Muslim states worldwide, could fight Israel to an advantage. If a kid picked a fight with a giant bully on a playground, you'd call him stupid. If a kid constantly picked fights with this bully and then acted surprised when the bully constantly beats him up, you'd call the kid a lunatic.

They lost the war. Israel is bigger. They fought for their chunk of land, and now they have it. It was immoral, but it was 60 years ago. The reality of the situation is that the Israelis are not going to leave, so a two-state solution is the only solution.

(On nuclear weapons: Even if Pakistan or Iran dropped one on Israel, what then? Would that free the Palestinians? No, it would kill a lot of them, and then Israel would obviously respond in kind with their nukes, probably disproportionately, killing millions more Muslims.)

Many Palestinians are already practicing nonviolent resistance, and a lot of the world feels sympathy and support for them. But that support evaporates pretty quick when the democratically elected government of Hamas launches rockets into Israeli cities.

Israel: nonviolent resistance. (I doubt any Israelis are reading this forum, but if you are, here's what I think you should do.) If Hamas launches rockets against your cities, ignore them. Have the courage to be peaceful instead of vengeful.

Treat them like unfortunate weather. Most Israelis want peace. Most Israelis want a two-state rule of Palestine. For 60 years, Israelis have responded to suicide bombings and rocket strikes with more violence against the Palestinians. It hasn't worked. Palestinians hate Israel more than ever, and killing hundreds of their children and families is not going to scare them into obedience, it's going to radicalize even more of them into violent extremists.

There was recently an NYT article about the conflict and they interviewed some Israelis. The Israelis basically said their war on gaza was intended to be violent "madness" to terrorize the Gazans. An Israeli ex-general was quoted as saying he understands exactly why Hamas uses suicide bombings and other "terrorist" attacks—because that's exactly what Israel is doing to the Gazans. It is obvious to most civilized people that, regardless of who "started" this conflict, Israel is acting immorally.

That is why I think Israel, too, should practice nonviolent resistance against Palestinian aggression. Nonviolent resistance does not have to be limited to the weak and oppressed. It is obvious that Hamas' rocket attacks are intended to provoke Israel to some extent. So don't take the bait. When Israel counterattacks, it always makes it worse.

America: stop supporting Israel. Stop giving them billions of dollars in aid. Use our clout with NATO and the UN to put an international peacekeeping force in Gaza, ideally with soldiers from Islamic countries as well. Even if both Israelis and Palestinian governments refrain from violent aggression, there will always be insane Israeli settlers and Salafi-style jihadists who just want to kill each other, peace be ****ed. The purpose of the international peacekeeping force would be to stop such rogue elements, but also to deter the Israeli and Palestinian governments from responding to rogue elements if they are not stopped.

Also: none of these things is a precondition for the other. Palestinians shouldn't wait for Israelis to become doves to give up violence. Israelis shouldn't wait for Hamas to stop firing rockets to treat the Palestinians like human beings. And America shouldn't wait for the "terrorists" to submit or whatever to join the rest of the world's consensus that something drastic needs to be done here to end violence from both sides.

[sister herb]

:sl:

Al-Qaeda is last thing what Palestinians need! They better to stay away and kill they enemies in somewhere else.

:raging:

[wth1257]

:sl:

Al-Qaeda is last thing what Palestinians need! They better to stay away and kill they enemies in somewhere else.

:raging:

Anywhere Al-Quaida goes their activities eclipse the legitimate grievances of the people imsad

[Qingu]

What's wrong with being one of those people?:)

Okay, Ayesha. If I understand you, you think that al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11. I am presuming you think Bush did it in cooperation with the evil zionist conspiracy or whatever. However, I'm curious:

• Are you glad 9/11 happened?

• If it was proven that Osama bin Laden was behind 9/11, would it change your opinion of him?

• You clearly think everything "the media" tells us about al-Qaeda is false. So what do we know about al-Qaeda? You seem to support them, so I'm curious to see what kind of group you think they are in the first place.

[Qingu]

Ayesha, I have another question for you as well.

Right now I'm looking at the following page from al-Jazeera:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/am...236327280.html

Here is what it says:

Osama bin Laden has eulogised one of the September 11 hijackers in a new video released on the sixth anniversary of the attacks in the United States.

The al-Qaeda leader is seen in a still image on the video in which he gives a commentary praising Walid al-Shehri, one of the 19 hijackers who carried out the 2001 attacks.

Al-Shehri, who was aboard American Airlines flight 11, the first jet to crash into the World Trade Centre in New York in 2001, is also seen on the tape.

IntelCenter, a US-based organisation that monitors radical websites, said it had a copy of the video which lasts 47 minutes.

The authenticity of the tape, which does not have moving images of bin Laden, could not be verified.

The video begins with a photograph of bin Laden in front of a brown backdrop.

In a voiceover, he is heard saying: "This talk of mine consists of some reflections on the will of a young man who personally penetrated the most extreme degrees of danger and is a rarity among men: one of the 19 champions, may Allah have mercy on them all."

Al-Shehri asserts in the tape that the US will suffer the same fate as the former Soviet Union and praises the losses the United States suffered in Somalia in the late 1990s.

"We shall come at you from your front and back, your right and left," he says.

"As for our own fortune, it is not in this world. And we are not competing with you for this world, because it does not equal in Allah's eyes the wing of a mosquito."

In an earlier tape released on Friday, bin Laden had mocked the US as "weak" and threatened to escalate the war in Iraq.

News of the latest video emerged before the US was to hold ceremonies to remember the dead from New York's Twin Towers, the US defence department headquarters in Washington and a hijacked jet that crashed into a field in Pennsylvania.

I bolded the parts where al-Jazeera explicitly says 9/11 was perpetrated by al-Qaeda hijackers and quotes Osama bin Laden calling them "champions."

Another article by al-Jazeera, clearly identifying one of the hijackers on 9/11 as a mujahadeen threatening jihad against America, and quoting bin Laden praising him posthumously:

http://english.aljazeera.net/archive...746318218.html

My question for you: is al-Jazeera also part of this vast Jewish conspiracy that you're talking about?

[I<3Bush]

So whats up with these videos? Its like tupac coming out with a new album every year

[Ninth_Scribe]

^What do you suggest? What do you think will be the best way to free the Palestinians from Isreal's terrorrism?

Perhaps they should bind themselves together. This is what I did on behalf of Iraq, Afghanistan and most recently, Pakistan. I asked Allah to bind the lands. It's a very ancient prayer ~ and it was the only way I could think of to stop the fighting. That way, what ever is destroyed there, is also destroyed here... a farm for a farm, a city for a city, a soul for a soul. Hey, it worked for Moses :)

So, let the arm stab the leg with it's own spear because it thinks it's different ~ both will feel the pain!

The Ninth Scribe

[sur]

what???? I don't get ur point. I NEVER mentioned "Kabah"...!!!!!


I said, life of innocent muslims are much more precious than one "osama".
He should be caught dead or alive.... I repeat. or better he should surrender himself, which seems rare possibility keeping in mind that he is most probably DEAD already as admitted by Pakistani ex-prime minister Baynazeer Bhutto.

Watch video...
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

"...omer sheikh the man who murdered osama bin laden..."

[Ayesha Rana]

I don't think I ever claimed to be a Muslim or an expert on Islam nor did I imply my disapproval of his call caried any religious weight whatsoever. I was under the impression in traditional Islamic law that not just any individual has the authority to call jihad. I think it is perfectly fair to ask what authority he has to call a jihad.

Okay point taken lol there is nothing wrong with him declaring Jihad.

I don't know, I've never been invited to visit them in Virginia:cry:

Me neither

I don't know what you are talking about sorry.

There is a video, well actually there are a few but the one that is most eye openning is 'In Plain Sight' with all hard proof included.

Here watch it please... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87651203625811

Looking back at my last post I see it came off a lot more combative than I intended so I am sorry about that.

Okay and im sorry for taking it that way.

Okay, Ayesha. If I understand you, you think that al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11. I am presuming you think Bush did it in cooperation with the evil zionist conspiracy or whatever.

I do not think Osama bin Laden is responsible.

• Are you glad 9/11 happened?

No i'm not.

• You clearly think everything "the media" tells us about al-Qaeda is false. So what do we know about al-Qaeda? You seem to support them, so I'm curious to see what kind of group you think they are in the first place.

Everything? I can't say that. Did I say i support them? We have been lied to concerning them, yes, but i didn't say what i though of them.

Let's clarify a few misconceptions you may have. I get the impression that you think i am narrow minded or that you are trying to see if i am.
Okay, if i agree to something that Bin Laden suggests, it's because i think it's correct. He just happened to be the one to say it. And if i agreed to something that he said we should do, it would be because i thought that particular action was the right thing to do and would please God, not bin Laden.
I don't paint pictures of people and hope they live up to my expectations because i'm afraid i'd have a good many dissapointments.
In the end, I'm going to be answerable to God for my actions not bin Ladens.
But i still believe with sound proof that he is innocent and it is my duty if i can to defend him.

• If it was proven that Osama bin Laden was behind 9/11, would it change your opinion of him?

Opinion of him? Why should it change my opinion of him? Tell me, what opinion have i formed of him? He is just a human like you and me.
If someone accused you of something you hadn't done and it was in my power to, i would defend you also and if it was your family being murdered and innocent children starved and killed, i'd despise the action regardless of who you are because one should 'stand up for what is right even if they stand alone.' That's my duty and if i don't do my duty i will be answerable to it on the Day of Judgment. How would i fare if you sued me on that day? And if you don't believe in God or Ressurection then i'm sorry to say this is where our differences lie.

Oh and wth1257 i know more about American politics than you think.

I know 3000 people died. I'm sorry for them all. Many of them were muslims, but 2 wrongs don't make a right and the killing of innocents cannot be justified. If American civillians are killed it gives no excuse of Bush to kill civillians elsewhere.
That's alot like me slapping your little brother because you slapped mine. Though as you know, i do not think that Usama was behind 9/11 which is hat makes it all so unfair...Like for me to slap my own little brother and then put the blame on you just so i can slap yours.


(No worries, i've nothing against you or ur imaginary little brother.)

Ayesha, I have another question for you as well.

Right now I'm looking at the following page from al-Jazeera:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/am...236327280.html

Here is what it says:



I bolded the parts where al-Jazeera explicitly says 9/11 was perpetrated by al-Qaeda hijackers and quotes Osama bin Laden calling them "champions."

Another article by al-Jazeera, clearly identifying one of the hijackers on 9/11 as a mujahadeen threatening jihad against America, and quoting bin Laden praising him posthumously:

http://english.aljazeera.net/archive...746318218.html

My question for you: is al-Jazeera also part of this vast Jewish conspiracy that you're talking about?

I'll comment if i get to see that tape. There were fake videos released.

[YusufNoor]

Okay point taken lol there is nothing wrong with him declaring Jihad.
Me neither


There is a video, well actually there are a few but the one that is most eye openning is 'In Plain Sight' with all hard proof included.

Here watch it please... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87651203625811

I do not think Osama bin Laden is responsible.

In the end, I'm going to be answerable to God for my actions not bin Ladens.
But i still believe with sound proof that he is innocent and it is my duty if i can to defend him.


Opinion of him? Why should it change my opinion of him? Tell me, what opinion have i formed of him? He is just a human like you and me.
If someone accused you of something you hadn't done and it was in my power to, i would defend you also and if it was your family being murdered and innocent children starved and killed, i'd despise the action regardless of who you are because one should 'stand up for what is right even if they stand alone.' That's my duty and if i don't do my duty i will be answerable to it on the Day of Judgment. How would i fare if you sued me on that day? And if you don't believe in God or Ressurection then i'm sorry to say this is where our differences lie.

Oh and wth1257 i know more about American politics than you think.

I know 3000 people died. I'm sorry for them all. Many of them were muslims, but 2 wrongs don't make a right and the killing of innocents cannot be justified. If American civillians are killed it gives no excuse of Bush to kill civillians elsewhere.
That's alot like me slapping your little brother because you slapped mine. Though as you know, i do not think that Usama was behind 9/11 which is hat makes it all so unfair...Like for me to slap my own little brother and then put the blame on you just so i can slap yours.

I'll comment if i get to see that tape. There were fake videos released.

:sl:

here's the latest video, Zero An Investigation into 9/11:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...90368603788739

and here's one Sister Skye was quoting from the other day 9/11 Missing Links ( The best kept secret of 9/11 is the Israeli connection):

http://www.911missinglinks.com/

some consider this one the best, (9/11 Mysteries Part 1 The Demolitions):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...71955308136871

and here's one on the 7/7 train bombings in London that sheds the appropriate light on the subject, 7/7 Ripple Effect:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...95263359807776

and here are 2 sights where you can get copies of these movies on dvd for a dollar:

http://onedollardvdproject.com/DVD-new/Order.html
^^Ron charges for shipping and sells in orders of 3, so you have ones to give away

http://www.v911t.org/21_DVDs_Truth.php

Alfons doesn't charge for shipping [in the USA] but they take longer than Ron's to arrive.


oh yeah, and Osama's FBI page, CLEARLY showing that he IS NOT WANTED for 9/11!:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

:w:

[Qingu]

Ayesha (and others on here), I don't see why you need to watch any videos. Al-Jazeera says 9/11 was the work of Al-Qaeda hijackers. You can read this in the links I provided.

I'm not asking if you believe al-Qaeda was behind 9/11 (obviously you don't). I'm asking if you believe Al-Jazeera is lying to you—because Al-Jazeera says they were.

Is Al-Jazeera part of the Zionist media conspiracy? Please answer the question directly.

[Qingu]

One more thing, just to be as clear as possible:

I know 3000 people died. I'm sorry for them all. Many of them were muslims, but 2 wrongs don't make a right and the killing of innocents cannot be justified. If American civillians are killed it gives no excuse of Bush to kill civillians elsewhere.
That's alot like me slapping your little brother because you slapped mine. Though as you know, i do not think that Usama was behind 9/11 which is hat makes it all so unfair...Like for me to slap my own little brother and then put the blame on you just so i can slap yours.

I agree. Two wrongs do not make a right. Bush's wars are moral atrocities. And I think I speak for wth as well, since he has elsewhere commented how much he dislikes Bush.

So I'm not sure why you brought this up. Neither of us have ever expressed any support for Americans killing civilians. The fact that Bush has immorally killed civilians has absolutely nothing to do with the debate we are having, which is whether or not Osama bin Laden is actually responsible for 9/11.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume that all Americans support Bush's policies. That's just as unfair as assuming all Muslims are terrorists.

[Ayesha Rana]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume that all Americans support Bush's policies. That's just as unfair as assuming all Muslims are terrorists.

Hey of course it's unfair, i didn't even know that u were American (if u mentioned it somewhere it must have slipped my notice) and I never thought you supported Bush. I meant that whether or not Usama bin Laden did 9/11, Bush had no excuse to retaliate like that. But yeah u already know that so no point in me saying it again was there?

And yes back to Al Jazeerah. What makes you think i believe anything they have to say just because it's from them? I don't know if they are part of the zionist watsy conspiracy and i wouldn't believe them blindly either way. I think they are mistaken and if they are i'm not gonna make their mistakes-or at least i'll try not to. Besides that's the English channel. The arabic hannel is the original so i'd expect it to be more authentic and if it isn't too bad for them, it makes no difference to me i'm not an Al Jazeeraite.

There have i answered ur question?

[Qingu]

And yes back to Al Jazeerah. What makes you think i believe anything they have to say just because it's from them? I don't know if they are part of the zionist watsy conspiracy and i wouldn't believe them blindly either way. I think they are mistaken and if they are i'm not gonna make their mistakes-or at least i'll try not to. Besides that's the English channel. The arabic hannel is the original so i'd expect it to be more authentic and if it isn't too bad for them, it makes no difference to me i'm not an Al Jazeeraite.

There have i answered ur question?

Yes, thank you. I have another one:

How do you determine whether a news source is believable or not? What exactly is your criteria?

I'm curious because I'd like to know why you trust the sources that claim bin Laden and al-Qaeda are the scapegoats of a massive conspiracy. Why do you believe these sources about bin Laden, but not Al-Jazeera?

(Also, if you know Arabic, then please feel free to find similar articles about bin Laden on their Arabic site. I'm interested to see how much the content differs. I would check, but unfortunately I don't know Arabic.)

[Ayesha Rana]

Yes, thank you. I have another one:

How do you determine whether a news source is believable or not? What exactly is your criteria?

I'm curious because I'd like to know why you trust the sources that claim bin Laden and al-Qaeda are the scapegoats of a massive conspiracy. Why do you believe these sources about bin Laden, but not Al-Jazeera?

(Also, if you know Arabic, then please feel free to find similar articles about bin Laden on their Arabic site. I'm interested to see how much the content differs. I would check, but unfortunately I don't know Arabic.)

I don't believe any Media at all. News is like putty in their hands. They chip it and mould it into whatever shape they like to make their story and expect us to believe it.

Now i think you've asked enough questions, i'm tired of trying to stress that i won't believe what i haven't got evidence for whoever has said it, my turn to make a request.

Watch this link please and then tell me what you think.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...71955308136871

And don't just ignore it please. Watch it all the way through with an open mind. I read your article.:)

[Qingu]

Ayesha,

Your video is one hour and thirty minutes long and I honestly do not have time to watch it in the immediate future. However, it looks like a pretty standard "9/11 truther" video, and I'm already familiar with these claims. (I'm assuming the video basically restates the argument of this organization—feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

They've been debunked in a number of places, but here's one you should familiarize yourself with:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...w/1227842.html

As you can see, a lot of the claims are just illogical, others are based on poor evidence. Again, feel free to let me know if the video covers something not addressed in this website (preferably with a time in the video so I can review it later) and I'll be glad to respond in more detail.

Now, Ayesha, you say you don't believe "any media at all." Does that include the 9/11 truther movement? You seem to believe them. But why? Why do you believe 9/11 truthers, and not Al Jazeera? Again, I'm just confused as to how you decide what to believe and what not to believe, because it seems incredibly inconsistent and arbitrary.

For example, you posted the 9/11 truther video in a thread about bin Laden. The 9/11 truthers claim (quoting from their website, I'm assuming this is restated in the video) that "The most important Osama Bin Ladin video (Nov. 2001), in which he supposedly confesses to masterminding 9/11, appears to be a fake. In any event, the State Department''s translation of it is fraudulent." Ayesha, why do you believe them, and not the media and state department's assessment of the video? What logic did you use to make this decision?

This is why I have trouble taking conspiracy theorists like yourself seriously. Conspiracy theorists often talk about how we can't trust the media—but then they just blindly trust any source that seems to support their version of the story. You don't apply your skepticism to your own story.

In fact, the entire purpose of your conspiracy theory is not to explain what actually happened on 9/11 with available evidence. You have no idea what happened. You just "know" it couldn't have been bin Laden (because he's a Muslim and Muslims can do no wrong) and that it was a Zionist plot (because the Zionists and the CIA are always scheming behind the scenes to start wars with Muslims). You seem to start from this assumption and work from there, trusting any source that agrees with you and ignoring any source that doesn't. Thus, for you, a random internet video from the 9/11 truth movement is a trustworthy source, while Al Jazeera is part of the Zionist conspiracy.

If you've used another kind of thought process to determine which sources you trust, then please let me know. I'm all ears.

[sur]

This is what i said:-

......america would loose at least one excuse to kill muslims.

So far all muslim killings revolve around "Osama". You mentioned iraq, it was also attacked because Saddam was allegedly helping al-qaida, again run by osama(as they say). So osama is being used as basis of all killings.

oh and look what I found:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2IIn_U...-murdered.html

this was not the only proof he might be dead. Search & u'll find documentries mentioning how sick he was long ago with renal failure. I have seen patients with renal failure, they can't live for this much time that too in conditions like of afghanistan, hiding & on the run......
his heart was enlarged
he had diabetes
he had renal problems
& just before 9-11 he was treated at American Military hospital.... amazing.


also look at his videos, person in videos is a fake & doesn't match with real pics of him taken a while back.
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?h...ke&hl=en&emb=0

[Dawud_uk]

This is what i said:-

So far all muslim killings revolve around "Osama". You mentioned iraq, it was also attacked because Saddam was allegedly helping al-qaida, again run by osama(as they say). So osama is being used as basis of all killings.


this was not the only proof he might be dead. Search & u'll find documentries mentioning how sick he was long ago with renal failure. I have seen patients with renal failure, they can't live for this much time that too in conditions like of afghanistan, hiding & on the run......
his heart was enlarged
he had diabetes
he had renal problems
& just before 9-11 he was treated at American Military hospital.... amazing.


also look at his videos, person in videos is a fake & doesn't match with real pics of him taken a while back.
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?h...ke&hl=en&emb=0

:sl: sur,

in islam we dont just kill a person because it would be convinient and as you and other say deny an excuse for the kuffar to attack us.

:sl:

[I<3Bush]

Why is it that the U.S still hasn't released all the captured footage relating to the 9/11 events? Thats if they haven't destroyed them already.

[Trumble]

Why is it that the U.S still hasn't released all the captured footage relating to the 9/11 events? Thats if they haven't destroyed them already.

That's an argument they could never win. No matter how much footage is released, or not, there always be claims that some was destroyed, or remains hidden in some secret warehouse (next to Ark of the Covenant, maybe?:D) somewhere, that can never be disproved.. how do you show something doesn't or didn't exist? Such claims are the life-blood of conspiracy theories.

[Qingu]

Why is it that the U.S still hasn't released all the captured footage relating to the 9/11 events? Thats if they haven't destroyed them already.

Why don't YOU release the 9/11 footage that YOU have?

Obviously, the fact that you are not releasing the footage that you've collected means you are part of a conspiracy to hide the truth about 9/11. And go ahead and try to deny it—that's exactly what a Zionist conspirator would say!

[I<3Bush]

That's an argument they could never win. No matter how much footage is released, or not, there always be claims that some was destroyed, or remains hidden in some secret warehouse (next to Ark of the Covenant, maybe?:D) somewhere, that can never be disproved.. how do you show something doesn't or didn't exist? Such claims are the life-blood of conspiracy theories.

As far as I'm concerned, there were only 2 videos of the of the pentagon explosion that were released, both showing just an explosion. I find it pretty hard that there were only 2 videos out there the whole time.

Why don't YOU release the 9/11 footage that YOU have?

Obviously, the fact that you are not releasing the footage that you've collected means you are part of a conspiracy to hide the truth about 9/11. And go ahead and try to deny it—that's exactly what a Zionist conspirator would say!

Which footage are you referring to?

[Dawud_uk]

As far as I'm concerned, there were only 2 videos of the of the pentagon explosion that were released, both showing just an explosion. I find it pretty hard that there were only 2 videos out there the whole time.



Which footage are you referring to?

A-HA! see denial, definately a new world order member here.

[muslimapoclyptc]

Bin Laden: U.S. Decline Fueled Gaza Attack

CBS News: Israel Attacked Because Of America's Fading Dominance, End Of Bush Mandate, Al Qaeda Boss Says

LONDON, Jan. 14, 2009



Al Qaeda boss Osama bin Laden says the decline of America's dominance on the world stage was one of the main factors which prompted Israel to launch its offensive in Gaza.

"The great and swift decline in America's influence is one of the most important motivations for Israelis to wage such a barbaric attack on Gaza, in a bid to try and make use of the last days of (President) Bush's mandate and the neo-conservatives," he says.

The message was delivered in a speech downloaded Wednesday by CBS News from a Web site frequently used to disseminate al Qaeda propaganda. The audio was produced by al Qaeda's media wing, as-Sahab.

It was impossible to confirm the authenticity of the recording, but the voice appeared to be that of the terror group's leader. The audio has not been heard before. The last known audio address from bin Laden was released on May 18, 2008.

The audio, about 22 minutes long, is titled: "A Call for Jihad to Stop the Aggression on Gaza. The message of Sheikh Osama Bin Laden to the Muslim Ummah."

"Israelis are in a rush to get rid of their enemies in Gaza, and replace them with (Palestinian President Mahmoud) Abbas and his administration, in order for him to protect their backs. They thus carried out this horrific butchery before the end of Bush's term in office before the American weakness shows even more."

Its release came on the 19th day of Israel's military campaign in the Gaza Strip targeting Hamas militants, which Palestinian doctors say has left 940 people dead, less than half of whom were combatants.

Bin Laden says Mr. Bush has left President-elect Barack Obama with "two bitter choices," and wonders aloud whether the next American leader will be able to keep up the fight against al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

"Can America keep up the war with us for more decades to come? All reports and analysis indicate that this is not possible. In fact, 75 percent of American people are happy with the departure of the president who got them into wars they could not possibly win."

Bin Laden goes on to say President Bush "drowned" the American people in economic woes and "left his successor a difficult legacy, and left him one of two bitter choices… The worst heritage is when a man inherits a long guerrilla warfare with a persevering, patient enemy - a war that is funded by usury. If he (Obama) withdraws from the war, that would be a military defeat, and if he goes on with it, he'll drown in economic crisis."

The terrorist leader calls for Jihad, saying it is the only way to defeat the "Zionists" and liberate the Gaza Strip.

Bin Laden calls on Muslims worldwide to support the cause, and reissues his plea for donations. "Your duty is to support the Mujahideen with money and men. I have experienced Jihad myself and I know how costly it can be. The Zakat (tithe) of one affluent Muslim merchant is enough to finance all the Jihadi front against our enemies."

Bin Laden said the current global situation offered a good opportunity to purge Muslim countries of Western influence. "Oh, Muslim Ummah (nation), those wars and crisis represent a great opportunity, and wise men would not let it slip away from them. You have a great chance now to overthrow the injustice and the tyranny that has overwhelmed you for decades."

Bin Laden closed his speech by addressing Palestinians in Gaza. "My brothers in Palestine, you have suffered a lot, and your fathers before you, for nine whole decades. Muslims sympathize with you, for what they see and hear. We, the Mujahideen, sympathize with you, too, much more than anyone else… Because the Mujahideen lead the same kind of life that you lead; they are bombed the same way you are bombed, from the same airplanes, they lose their children just like you do."

Also in the address, bin Laden predicts that Mr. Obama will be unable to solve the economic problems facing America.

Quoting Mr. Obama's vice-presidential pick, Joe Biden, bin Laden says, "Here’s Biden, the deputy of the newly elected president, saying: 'The crisis is even worse than we expected, and the entire American economy is in peril.'”

It was the latest attack on Mr. Obama by an al Qaeda figurehead. Bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, accused Mr. Obama of standing behind the "massacre of Gaza" in an audio released earlier this month.

Bin Laden also taunts President Bush over his pledge to abolish terrorism and kill or arrest terrorist leaders - a promise the outgoing American president couldn't keep, according to the al Qaeda chief.

"A group of your sons declared Jihad on that single power, the Hitler of our time," bin Laden said. "We thus broke its horn, struck his fortress and demolished his tower. He thus became enraged and said he would bring the leaders of the Mujahideen, dead or alive, to regain America's stature in the world and set it as an example for everybody."

Source : http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4720357.shtml

The problem with this, is that Osama bin Laden is dead, and has been dead since December, 2001.

[Qingu]

Which footage are you referring to?

You know perfectly well! The footage that YOU have of George Bush personally blowing up the Twin Towers! The fact that your'e denying it obviously means you're just in on the conspiracy!

PROVE THAT YOU'RE NOT!

Wait a minute ... "I heart Bush"? That's your name?

PROVE THAT YOU'RE NOT REALLY GEORGE W. BUSH!!!

[I<3Bush]

You know perfectly well! The footage that YOU have of George Bush personally blowing up the Twin Towers! The fact that your'e denying it obviously means you're just in on the conspiracy!

PROVE THAT YOU'RE NOT!

Wait a minute ... "I heart Bush"? That's your name?

PROVE THAT YOU'RE NOT REALLY GEORGE W. BUSH!!!

Xanax?

[Grace Seeker]

As if Bush gives 2hoots about "people"

How many people did he massacre In Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine (by sending weapons to israel and giving them the go ahead)?

Didn't you read what Bin Laden said? He said that it was because Bush and America was weak that Israel became aggressive. It isn't because it was Israel was given the go ahead, but because Bush wasn't in a strong enough position to say STOP!.

[Grace Seeker]

9/11 was an inside job theres umpty number of documentaries on this and hollywood movies depicting this fact how these inside jobs are carried and what motives are behind them.

I always find such views as the above terribly curious. Bin Laden has on more than one occassion confessed to having planned the attack. And here we see him alluding to it again:

"A group of your sons declared Jihad on that single power, the Hitler of our time," bin Laden said. "We thus broke its horn, struck his fortress and demolished his tower. He thus became enraged and said he would bring the leaders of the Mujahideen, dead or alive, to regain America's stature in the world and set it as an example for everybody."

Source : http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4720357.shtml

And yet, there are many who refuse to believe him, and want to believe that it was something that America did to itself. The credulity of such an idea is staggering.

[Muezzin]

This thread has been up for one week. It was originally about Osama Bin Laden and Gaza.

It's mutated into a conspiracy theory thread about 9-11.

I'm locking it.