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openmind
01-14-2009, 04:05 PM
Were members of Hamas launching missiles into Israel from Gaza? It is said that this had been occurring on a regular basis for over a year.

This article appeared at the end of the truce:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042601010.html
Reply

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Trumble
01-14-2009, 07:08 PM
Sorry, but what are you suggesting they lied about?

I've read that article and I'm no clearer. It says that over 800 rockets were fired in the ten months up to 26 April 2007 (the date of the article). Are you saying that isn't true?
Reply

Najm
01-14-2009, 07:11 PM
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

I didnt check the article, but the answer is a YES, yes they are criminals, yes they are liars etc

They will be brought to justice

FiAmaaniAllah

Reply

IslamicRevival
01-14-2009, 07:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Sorry, but what are you suggesting they lied about?

I've read that article and I'm no clearer. It says that over 800 rockets were fired in the ten months up to 26 April 2007 (the date of the article). Are you saying that isn't true?
I suppose your going to deny this aswell?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JEAeDMH7ULA

Israel are criminals, Liars, Thugs, Filth and Every bad name there is
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sister herb
01-14-2009, 07:35 PM
:sl:

At that time (2007) between zionist occupiers and Hamas had truce what was one-sided (Hamas kept calm during 5 months but zionists continued killing and kidnapping Palestinians both in the West Bank and Gaza). After several attacks by zionists against Palestinians, Hamas decided to end it and started its attacks again.

The group, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, said the attacks were in revenge for recent killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces.

A spokesman for Hamas's armed wing, Abu Ubeida, said: "There is no truce between us and the occupation, the occupation destroyed the truce from the moment it started, we did not trust the intentions of the occupation from the beginning."
(24 April 2007 by BBC)
So, that situation was just similar than at end of the year 2008. One-side truce, what zionists broked from its beginning but blamed that Palestinians broke it, not them.

As zionist occupiers love to say:

"Until now we have shown restraint. But today there is no other option than a military operation."

The only legitimate option for Israel is to end the occupation and withdraw behind its 1967 border, as required under international law and UN resolutiosn. Israel has been killing Palestinians at the rate of 8 to 1 since 2000, and children at the rate of nearly 12 to 1 (B’Tselem figures). This is somebody’s idea of restraint?

Do they lie? In common all the time, like now when they say they are not targeting civilians in Gaza - and most of they victims are just civilians.

:raging:

If they have launched 800 rockets thats nice - hopely they would launched 8000!
Reply

Mr. Sandman
01-14-2009, 07:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
I suppose your going to deny this aswell?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JEAeDMH7ULA

Israel are criminals, Liars, Thugs, Filth and Every bad name there is
Why did the video cut off like that?
Reply

doorster
01-14-2009, 08:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Sorry, but what are you suggesting they lied about?

I've read that article and I'm no clearer. It says that over 800 rockets were fired in the ten months up to 26 April 2007 (the date of the article). Are you saying that isn't true?
I think he is saying: why did they not retaliate at the outset? what is so different after the 800th rocket, why were 799 treated as differently?

ceasefire could have been/was broken by the first same as the 800th and all those in between.

there is more to the situation than meets the eye, methinks!
Reply

Trumble
01-14-2009, 09:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
I suppose your going to deny this aswell?
I'm not 'denying' anything. I'm just asking the OP what his point is. Can you tell me?

Hamas kept calm during 5 months
According to the article they fired 230 rockets into Israel while 'keeping calm'. I fail to see why Israeli action should constitute a breach of the ceasefire while that did not.

I think he is saying: why did they not retaliate at the outset? what is so different after the 800th rocket, why were 799 treated as differently?
Maybe. You could argue on the basis on exactly the same information that the Israelis were being extremely patient in 'giving peace a chance'. I still don't see any suggestion that rockets were not, in fact, fired.
Reply

Najm
01-14-2009, 09:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
I'm not 'denying' anything. I'm just asking the OP what his point is. Can you tell me?



According to the article they fired 230 rockets into Israel while 'keeping calm'. I fail to see why Israeli action should constitute a breach of the ceasefire while that did not.



Maybe. You could argue on the basis on exactly the same information that the Israelis were being extremely patient in 'giving peace a chance'. I still don't see any suggestion that rockets were not, in fact, fired.

Peace....

Clearly no-ones read the other threads!!

There was no rockets fired for 4 months in a row during the truce... POST NUMBER 129... http://www.islamicboard.com/news-gaz...6369-gaza.html

Media Tags are no longer supported


People there are so many other threads out there!! All discussing the same thing. Take a read at all these threads first!!! Or ill just have to copy and paste the same arguments over and over again!!!

Check the discussion going on on the other threads..

http://www.islamicboard.com/news-gaz...on-israel.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/news-gaz...st-israel.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/news-gaz...ire-first.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/news-gaz...ault-gaza.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/news-gaz...continues.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/news-gaz...6369-gaza.html


Simple to put it............. Israel are criminals, violating laws since they came to existence, they are land stealers, they commit murder, they have done genocide for 60 years, they will always be backed by the US vetoing every resolution, they are house breakers, they are life destroyers, they are peace breakers, they are the worst of humans beings, and they will get whats coming to them very soon, they will be burning in hell in the bottomless of pits!!!!!:raging::raging::raging:

Peace...
Reply

doorster
01-14-2009, 09:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

Maybe. You could argue on the basis on exactly the same information that the Israelis were being extremely patient in 'giving peace a chance'. I still don't see any suggestion that rockets were not, in fact, fired.
or may be you could also argue that it is a smokescreen that will cover something bigger

while the retards of "Islamic" world are busy beating their chests, the following scenario might be taking shape:
Out of all the so-called Muslim world, only Pakistan had the potential for standing up against the nefarious designs of the global power-brokers and to resist their hegemony. but now while you are busy distracting the people of the world, the NATO forces are waiting on the western front to move into Pakistan to deprive the country of its nuclear assets while on the eastern border India is ready to stage an action replay of 1971 events and has alerted its armed forces to "intervene in to stop threats to peace of the region" in the aftermath.”
Reply

Trumble
01-14-2009, 10:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Najm
Clearly no-ones read the other threads!!

There was no rockets fired for 4 months in a row during the truce... POST NUMBER 129... http://www.islamicboard.com/news-gaz...6369-gaza.html
Clearly, you haven't bothered to read the article that the OP linked to. It is dated 26 April 2007 and describes events up to that time.


or may be you could also argue that it is a smokescreen that will cover something bigger
You could. I wasn't offering my last as a serious argument, just showing that there are several ways of interpreting the same facts.
Reply

sister herb
01-14-2009, 10:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Clearly, you haven't bothered to read the article that the OP linked to. It is dated 26 April 2007 and describes events up to that time.
:sl:

From end of 2006 to March of 2007 there was just similar truce than what was at 2008. Zionists never kept they promising at 2006 - 2007 but used it for murdering more Palestinians. Just like with this last truce too.

Liers, just only liers both of times.
Reply

Azy
01-15-2009, 11:31 AM
Imagine this was between India and Pakistan. If India fired 230 rockets at civilian targets during a ceasefire, or even just 20 as during the recent ceasefire, would you still consider it a ceasefire?

Disregarding for a second whether Israel were or were not justified in breaking the ceasefire, should Palestine not be held responsible for citizens firing explosive warheads onto foreign soil whenever they feel like it?
Reply

doorster
01-15-2009, 11:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Imagine this was between India and Pakistan. If India fired 230 rockets at civilian targets during a ceasefire, or even just 20 as during the recent ceasefire, would you still consider it a ceasefire?
No need to imagine it, just go visit any of Pakistani border villages and see the state of them and if you are real lucky you might even see one coming for it is a weekly occurrence even more frequent at times
Reply

Azy
01-15-2009, 12:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by doorster
No need to imagine it, just go visit any of Pakistani border villages and see the state of them and if you are real lucky you might even see one coming for it is a weekly occurrence even more frequent at times
Am I to take that as "firing rockets into another country doesn't actually constitute a ceasefire" or what?
Reply

doorster
01-15-2009, 12:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Am I to take that as "firing rockets into another country doesn't actually constitute a ceasefire" or what?
you are being clever again, are you not? I did not say that: "firing rockets into another country doesn't actually constitute a ceasefire [or breaking of it]"

I was just trying to point out your ignorance at the same time as saying that the people here, who are outraged at deaths in Palestine, do not give a toss about deaths in Pakistan or anywhere else for that matter (they are just like you in that respect).

and they are exactly same as you as far as their ignorance [ or they may not be ignorant as you, simply victims or relatives of victims from Palestine] is concerned or perhaps you are not all that ignorant either but are just a troll who enjoys twisting and quoting out of context
Reply

Azy
01-15-2009, 11:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by doorster
you are being clever again, are you not? I did not say that: "firing rockets into another country doesn't actually constitute a ceasefire [or breaking of it]"

I was just trying to point out your ignorance at the same time as saying that the people here, who are outraged at deaths in Palestine, do not give a toss about deaths in Pakistan or anywhere else for that matter (they are just like you in that respect).

and they are exactly same as you as far as their ignorance [ or they may not be ignorant as you, simply victims or relatives of victims from Palestine] is concerned or perhaps you are not all that ignorant either but are just a troll who enjoys twisting and quoting out of context
I'm not sure what you mean by "your ignorance", all I did was ask you a plain and simple question.

My analogy with Pakistan was not intended to make comment on or highlight anything to do with the current situation there, it was merely an analogy to the Palestinian attacks in reverse. I did that because it seems that most here are unable to see the situation from more than one perspective.

As far as deaths in Pakistan or Nigeria or Israel or Peru or anywhere that isn't within 10 minutes of my house, you're right, on a normal day I couldn't give a toss about them and don't give it a second thought unless I come across a thread like this. It's sad when anything bad happens to people but I only have direct control over my own life.
I don't understand what it is you're getting at.. am I supposed to care deeply about the tens of millions of people who die every year who I never even knew existed?

If you feel I have twisted your words why don't you give me a simple answer to the original question and then I can't twist them.
Reply

doorster
01-15-2009, 11:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
I'm not sure what you mean by "your ignorance", all I did was ask you a plain and simple question.

My analogy with Pakistan was not intended to make comment on or highlight anything to do with the current situation there, it was merely an analogy to the Palestinian attacks in reverse. I did that because it seems that most here are unable to see the situation from more than one perspective.

As far as deaths in Pakistan or Nigeria or Israel or Peru or anywhere that isn't within 10 minutes of my house, you're right, on a normal day I couldn't give a toss about them and don't give it a second thought unless I come across a thread like this. It's sad when anything bad happens to people but I only have direct control over my own life.
I don't understand what it is you're getting at.. am I supposed to care deeply about the tens of millions of people who die every year who I never even knew existed?

If you feel I have twisted your words why don't you give me a simple answer to the original question and then I can't twist them.
I think, I should say that I am sorry too, there is too much rubbish and trolling going on here [due to almost non-existent moderation by staff] that I get confused

Peace
Reply

sister herb
01-16-2009, 03:45 AM
:sl:

Zionist state what someones called as Isreal lies all the time. All those times her attack against civilians and claims she not, al the time she claims not attack against hospitals, UN, not using white phosphorous, deplated uranium, DIME or what ever.

All the time!
If they kill innocent, it is always mistake.

:raging:

Hundreds of thousands innocent they have murdered by mistake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1NCy...layer_embedded
Reply

sur
01-16-2009, 04:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by openmind
Were members of Hamas launching missiles into Israel from Gaza? It is said that this had been occurring on a regular basis for over a year.

This article appeared at the end of the truce:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042601010.html
israel is generation of snakes & scorpions. No one can tame these animals. You cannot expect truth from their mouths. Israeli young men were arrested with van full of explosives, celebrating 911 yelling & shouting, right on spot on sep-11 still they were freed & appeared on israeli TV claiming innocence.


Just recall bible references where Jesus & John the baptist called jews as vipers & snakes & that their tree is just to be cut down coz it's not producing good fruit:-

Matthew:12:34:(Jesus said to jews)You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.
Mt:23:33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Matthew:3:7:But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees(2 sects of jews) coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8:Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9:And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10:The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Reply

sur
01-16-2009, 04:29 AM
& by-the-way, this "stone" in Mt:3:9 is refering to Ghar-e-Hira, the cave where revelation started on Prophet Muhammad(saw).
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north_malaysian
01-16-2009, 04:30 AM
my country doesnt recognise Israel.... so can I say that Hamas didnt do terrorism acts... they're just cleaning their country from the invaders?
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sister herb
01-16-2009, 04:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
my country doesnt recognise Israel.... so can I say that Hamas didnt do terrorism acts... they're just cleaning their country from the invaders?
My country do recognise that terrorist state... as individuad person I agree. Cleaning...

:statisfie
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Najm
01-16-2009, 04:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
my country doesnt recognise Israel.... so can I say that Hamas didnt do terrorism acts... they're just cleaning their country from the invaders?
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Wow!! If our Ummah together sees it like that, invaders, would be cleaned up in no time!! In fact the invaders are getting cleaned up!!

FiAmaaniAllah
Reply

Yanal
01-16-2009, 04:40 AM
All I know that they are not saying the truth is that after one rocket launch none were injuried. Anyway how well is this source known for. The websites name gives out who updates it and that's washington. Who knows how these article writers get there information on Gaza which is half the world away. By the time a letter or mail from reporters are sent there are other news. No one is fully updated and no one knows what's the truth or lies between Gaza and Israel.
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Azy
01-16-2009, 01:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
my country doesnt recognise Israel.... so can I say that Hamas didnt do terrorism acts... they're just cleaning their country from the invaders?
Could I say I don't recognise Malaysian law then walk into your house and kill you without being a criminal?
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aamirsaab
01-16-2009, 01:23 PM
:sl:
Israeli government is doing what it does best: lying about killing palestinians and blaming their deaths on hamas.
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Azy
01-16-2009, 05:15 PM
Did Nizar Rayyan not say, "The only reason to have a hudna is to prepare yourself for the final battle." He had no intention of lasting peace with Israel.

Is it possible for Israel to sit on it's hands while Hamas works to destroy it?
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Najm
01-16-2009, 06:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Did Nizar Rayyan not say, "The only reason to have a hudna is to prepare yourself for the final battle." He had no intention of lasting peace with Israel.

Is it possible for Israel to sit on it's hands while Hamas works to destroy it?

Peace....

It seems that the oppressors demand the questions, and the opressed answer....Listening to too many Us-media propaganda!!!

Your asking the wrong question.....

It should be....

Is it OK for Hamas to sit and wonder while Israel works to destory it?

Peace...
Reply

sister herb
01-16-2009, 06:56 PM
:sl:

Right question...

Hamas won parliamentary elections at January 2006, more than 70 % of votes in the most democratic elections ever in the Middle East.

:bump1:

By this it is OK.

They have told they are ready for 1 year ceasefire with zionist state; what they want for this is:

OPEN OUR BORDERS

GO AWAY

STOP TO KILL PALESTINIANS



Is it too much? :-[
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Azy
01-18-2009, 01:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Hamas won parliamentary elections at January 2006, more than 70 % of votes in the most democratic elections ever in the Middle East.
I wonder if that's anything to do with them murdering their political opposition...
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sister herb
01-18-2009, 07:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
I wonder if that's anything to do with them murdering their political opposition...
:sl:

Who murdered who?
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Azy
01-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Hamas regularly kills members of Fatah and others that oppose them.
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sister herb
01-20-2009, 03:38 PM
:sl:

Could you give any proves about this? Or wanna repeat zionists lies?
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wth1257
01-20-2009, 03:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sur
israel is generation of snakes & scorpions. No one can tame these animals. You cannot expect truth from their mouths. Israeli young men were arrested with van full of explosives, celebrating 911 yelling & shouting, right on spot on sep-11 still they were freed & appeared on israeli TV claiming innocence.


Just recall bible references where Jesus & John the baptist called jews as vipers & snakes & that their tree is just to be cut down coz it's not producing good fruit:-

Matthew:12:34:(Jesus said to jews)You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.
Mt:23:33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Matthew:3:7:But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees(2 sects of jews) coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8:Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9:And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10:The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

That is obviously, when read in context, about the religious establishment of Roman Palestine, and not about Jewish people in general.
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alcurad
01-20-2009, 04:09 PM
Israel doesn't want peace, pali's have every right to do what they do.
Azy, I'm sure if you were born and raised in Gaza you'd be talking different, and showing that there are other ways of interpreting news is a very noble cause, but the facts speak for themselves, you can color it as you want after wards..
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wth1257
01-20-2009, 06:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
Israel doesn't want peace, pali's have every right to do what they do.
Azy, I'm sure if you were born and raised in Gaza you'd be talking different, and showing that there are other ways of interpreting news is a very noble cause, but the facts speak for themselves, you can color it as you want after wards..
I think the Israelis want peace, but they want it on their terms which are devastating for Palestinian culture and health.
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sister herb
01-20-2009, 07:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
I think the Israelis want peace, but they want it on their terms which are devastating for Palestinian culture and health.
:sl:

Peace for them is get Palestine without any Palestinians.

:D

For Palestinians peace means that they can live they life in they land without fear to become murdered by DU-bullets, F-16s or phosphorous boms.

Is it too much to ask?
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wth1257
01-20-2009, 07:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
:sl:

Peace for them is get Palestine without any Palestinians.

:D

For Palestinians peace means that they can live they life in they land without fear to become murdered by DU-bullets, F-16s or phosphorous boms.

Is it too much to ask?
No, not at all. I think all the major grievances of the Palestinians are well founded in international law and simple moral sanity.

Unfortunatly your first statment is sadly correct :cry:
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Azy
01-21-2009, 12:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Could you give any proves about this? Or wanna repeat zionists lies?
Hamas fires on Fatah rally
Fatah staff thrown from building
Hamas kill Fatah loyalists
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Najm
01-21-2009, 01:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
I wonder if that's anything to do with them murdering their political opposition...
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Hamas regularly kills members of Fatah and others that oppose them.
Peace...

It seems you dont understand that this thread is about "Is Israel Lying!"

You wonder wrong!!
When Hamas won the elections, Israel hated it, cause it wasnt what they wanted...it was perfectly democratic, so Israel cause rift between Hamas and Fatah!

Stop spreading propaganda!! Israel drop the lies!!!!

As Sister Harb said:

"OPEN OUR BORDERS

GO AWAY

STOP TO KILL PALESTINIANS

Is it too much? "

Peace...
Reply

Azy
01-21-2009, 02:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Najm
Stop spreading propaganda!! Israel drop the lies!!!
My apologies, the noble warriors of Hamas have vanquished the vile hordes of Pigsrael and won a free and fair election of the people. I will only believe news from sources run by Muslim brothers of Arabic heritage, all others are in league with the Zionists.
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wth1257
01-21-2009, 02:50 PM
I'm not going to defend Hamas but you claimed they won the elections, in part, by killing their political opposition. All the articles you cited were about events after the elections.
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MO783
01-21-2009, 02:54 PM
they always lie
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The_Prince
01-21-2009, 02:59 PM
incase you didnt realize, two of your links occured during a war between hamas and fatah, a war which fatah started on the behest of the USA to make a coup against hamas.

the third link your quote well it seems these fatah snakes were labeling the hamas members as Shia, and if hamas did shoot them for that then good on them, this is part of the zionist american agenda to divide and conquer the Muslims, all of a sudden Shias are becomming a problem for Palestine? no, this shia iran issue is being brought up to move away from the real threat of Israel, so the fact u have stupid fatah members saying shia shows how brainwashed they are, and indeed they shud be blotted out, need i remind everyone that this type of secetarian strife leads to alot of deaths amongst the Muslims, so indeed it would be the duty of the Muslims to silence those who seek to cause secetarian problems, especially in a country where it doesnt exist, Palestine.

indeed why would Shias become an agenda all of a sudden? does that make any sense? this is clear proof of how these fatah puppets are being brainwashed by the Americans. good job Hamas.
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wth1257
01-21-2009, 03:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
incase you didnt realize, two of your links occured during a war between hamas and fatah, a war which fatah started on the behest of the USA to make a coup against hamas.

the third link your quote well it seems these fatah snakes were labeling the hamas members as Shia, and if hamas did shoot them for that then good on them, this is part of the zionist american agenda to divide and conquer the Muslims, all of a sudden Shias are becomming a problem for Palestine? no, this shia iran issue is being brought up to move away from the real threat of Israel, so the fact u have stupid fatah members saying shia shows how brainwashed they are, and indeed they shud be blotted out, need i remind everyone that this type of secetarian strife leads to alot of deaths amongst the Muslims, so indeed it would be the duty of the Muslims to silence those who seek to cause secetarian problems, especially in a country where it doesnt exist, Palestine.

indeed why would Shias become an agenda all of a sudden? does that make any sense? this is clear proof of how these fatah puppets are being brainwashed by the Americans. good job Hamas.
So Al Ghazali should have just killed Ibn Rushd rather than just refute him?
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The_Prince
01-21-2009, 03:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
My apologies, the noble warriors of Hamas have vanquished the vile hordes of Pigsrael and won a free and fair election of the people. I will only believe news from sources run by Muslim brothers of Arabic heritage, all others are in league with the Zionists.
you are quite silly, there were international observers during the vote, we asked for proof, and you couldnt bring any, instead you brought links that happened durring a war AFTER THE ELECTIONS.

so not its not the Muslims of Arab heritagte saying this, international none Muslim european observars are saying it.
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The_Prince
01-21-2009, 03:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
So Al Ghazali should have just killed Ibn Rushd rather than just refute him?
can you stick on point instead of going into a point of time which was very different to whats going on in Palestine? why not reply to the point, why go on some stupid silly comparison which is not even comparable, why?
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Najm
01-21-2009, 03:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
My apologies, the noble warriors of Hamas have vanquished the vile hordes of Pigsrael and won a free and fair election of the people. I will only believe news from sources run by Muslim brothers of Arabic heritage, all others are in league with the Zionists.
Peace...

LOL!!! The only news you seem to believe is the one that suits you. Like the media, showing a blind eye, the news you want.........

.........is the news with all the filled propaganda.

Hamas was chosen democratically to represent Palestinians in the 2006 Parliamentary elections. Hamas was able to secure for itself more than the minimum required 50% of seats in a 78%-turn-out-election that was described as fair and clean by observers.
As Guardian states...

"Democrats will rightly applaud the 78% turnout in Wednesday's elections to the Palestinian parliament, which were remarkably fair, free and peaceful. George Bush and Tony Blair, who set such store by promoting democracy in Iraq and (selectively) elsewhere in the Middle East, should be delighted. The only problem is the result: preliminary figures show a stunning victory for the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas"
Apologies accepted :)

Is Israel lying? >>>>> 100% YES

Peace...
Reply

wth1257
01-21-2009, 03:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
can you stick on point instead of going into a point of time which was very different to whats going on in Palestine? why not reply to the point, why go on some stupid silly comparison which is not even comparable, why?
I am replying to your point, how is it not comparable?
Reply

alcurad
01-21-2009, 08:13 PM
Fatah was kicked out for a reason:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f.../04/gaza200804
how would anyone deal with an attempted coup de tat?
Reply

wth1257
01-21-2009, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
Fatah was kicked out for a reason:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f.../04/gaza200804
how would anyone deal with an attempted coup de tat?
I honestly wish I could say I am shocked.

It will be a sad day in America if Obama allows Bush to never be investigated for his many, many crimes.imsad
Reply

Azy
01-22-2009, 01:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
I'm not going to defend Hamas but you claimed they won the elections, in part, by killing their political opposition. All the articles you cited were about events after the elections.
You may have read it like that but that's not actually what I said. I said "I wonder" because although we'll never know exactly who did what to who beforehand, Hamas's fondness for murder and intimidation is clear from reported events that have happened before and since and that makes me a little sceptical.

After winning a free election by a landslide they proceed to dismantle the opposition by force? Why would any successful political party need or want to do that?
Voter surveys predicted an outcome of 35% Hamas and they obtained 60%, an amazing difference in statistical terms.
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
good job Hamas.
wth1257 made a reasonable point. Maybe we should just have everybody killed who doesn't agree with your politics or those of Hamas?
format_quote Originally Posted by Najm
LOL!!! The only news you seem to believe is the one that suits you. Like the media, showing a blind eye, the news you want.........
Could you tell me why any sources I quote must be wrong and any you quote must be right? How do I tell the difference, the ones who say mean things about Hamas are wrong, and the ones who say good things are right, is that it?
Reply

wth1257
01-22-2009, 01:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
You may have read it like that but that's not actually what I said. I said "I wonder" because although we'll never know exactly who did what to who beforehand, Hamas's fondness for murder and intimidation is clear from reported events that have happened before and since and that makes me a little sceptical.

After winning a free election by a landslide they proceed to dismantle the opposition by force? Why would any successful political party need or want to do that?
Voter surveys predicted an outcome of 35% Hamas and they obtained 60%, an amazing difference in statistical terms.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f.../04/gaza200804
Reply

Najm
01-22-2009, 03:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Could you tell me why any sources I quote must be wrong and any you quote must be right? How do I tell the difference, the ones who say mean things about Hamas are wrong, and the ones who say good things are right, is that it?

Peace.......

the sources you quoted that particular time it must be said.......... everyone and including me got the idea that...........the Hamas vs Fatah issue happened before the elections, and it didnt........ but due to you slipping the news under the carpet, showing us great propaganda..... it was a great show!!!

Hamas won the elections cleanly, everyone agrees, apart from your " i wonder" comment. After the elections, US-Israel, decided to make it more democratic, by trying to dismantle Hamas. The only "democratic elections" they want is the one that would suit them. Bad Luck.

Peace.....

Reply

Azy
01-22-2009, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
That's fair enough if the elections were fair and Hamas were averting a coup.
It doesn't really address whether the elections and vote counting were fair though. It seems odd to me that Ahmadinejad rises to power from being a significant underdog ( in what many see as a blatantly rigged election), then a few months later his favourite group of anti-Zionist militants do the same thing.

Don't take any of this the wrong way, I'm not some kind of Torah waving Arab hater, I'm just trying to make sense of the situation.

format_quote Originally Posted by Najm
the sources you quoted that particular time it must be said.......... everyone and including me got the idea that...........the Hamas vs Fatah issue happened before the elections, and it didnt........ but due to you slipping the news under the carpet, showing us great propaganda..... it was a great show!!!

Hamas won the elections cleanly, everyone agrees, apart from your " i wonder" comment. After the elections, US-Israel, decided to make it more democratic, by trying to dismantle Hamas. The only "democratic elections" they want is the one that would suit them. Bad Luck.
Before the election

Whether elections are fair or not isn't only about whether there is visible violence on election day.
I'm sure you know that there is more international influence in Palestine than just the US.

If Hamas won fairly that's fine by me, the will of the people has been done, but I have my suspicions.
Reply

alcurad
01-23-2009, 02:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
If Hamas won fairly that's fine by me, the will of the people has been done, but I have my suspicions.
it appears you're not accepting it form an ideological standpoint, there is no reason for being suspicious, whenever the 'Islamists' competed in fair elections they've almost always drawn a majority.
what's really suspicious is things like 'president' Abbas's term has ended for several days now, yet he is still president..
Reply

sister herb
01-23-2009, 07:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
I honestly wish I could say I am shocked.

It will be a sad day in America if Obama allows Bush to never be investigated for his many, many crimes.imsad
:sl:

I understad your feelings.

May I hug you a moment?

Reply

RaineR
01-23-2009, 09:46 AM
The Israelis have killed the prophets let alone civilians ....
Reply

Najm
01-23-2009, 02:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
If Hamas won fairly that's fine by me, the will of the people has been done, but I have my suspicions.
Peace...

The way you have been posting, you have made it clear your "suspicions" only arise when its against yours views.

At least before, you were sure it wasnt fair......Now its "If Hamas won fairly that's fine".....

....Maybe you do have have sense in you.

Peace...
Reply

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