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ninetrey
01-20-2009, 05:00 PM
esselamu aleikum we rahmetulah

as far as i know are sects and founding of sects haram in islam
same as veneration of saints which is basically the shiite way of
faith.so the shiite religion is definatly a sect so allah doesnt like them right?
so i wonder if they get treaded in sunnite country like saudi arabia
are they threaded as dhimmi or harbie or even as muslim?

Subhan Allah wa bihamdi
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ardianto
01-20-2009, 05:16 PM
Please, dont talk about section in this forum.
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aamirsaab
01-20-2009, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by ninetrey
esselamu aleikum we rahmetulah

as far as i know are sects and founding of sects haram in islam
same as veneration of saints which is basically the shiite way of
faith.so the shiite religion is definatly a sect so allah doesnt like them right?
so i wonder if they get treaded in sunnite country like saudi arabia
are they threaded as dhimmi or harbie or even as muslim?

Subhan Allah wa bihamdi
Well, the book I have on sharia doesn't distinguish between the muslim sects in a muslim country: it only differentiates on muslims and non-muslims (who would count as dhimmis). I assume they'd just be treated as muslims tbh...even if they were treated as dhimmis, it's not much of a difference anyway (apart from exemption from certain taxes)

Polite notice to other members: please try not to turn this thread into a sect-bashing one, else it will get locked. The question is fine for now and that's why I haven't locked it. But, one post of sect-bashing and it gets locked. No second chances - your first and only one was this polite notice!
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Fishman
01-20-2009, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by ninetrey
esselamu aleikum we rahmetulah

as far as i know are sects and founding of sects haram in islam
same as veneration of saints which is basically the shiite way of
faith.so the shiite religion is definatly a sect so allah doesnt like them right?
so i wonder if they get treaded in sunnite country like saudi arabia
are they threaded as dhimmi or harbie or even as muslim?

Subhan Allah wa bihamdi
:sl:
Shiism is not about veneration of saints. Both Shiites and Sunnis do that, the differences between Shia and Sunni are actually pretty minor. They dispute about who should have been the Khalifa after the Prophet (peace be upon him), and this affects their fihq and things a bit because they think some of the Hadith-transmitters were untrustworthy.

Plus, this is a sectarian thread.
:w:
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north_malaysian
01-21-2009, 06:26 AM
yeah... it's should be under sectarian thread...
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Dawud_uk
01-21-2009, 07:25 AM
:sl:

which shi'a? there are different types.

1. rafadiyyah who curse the sahabah and slander aisha (ra) and worship their imams?

2. ishmaelis who worship their leaders?

3. zaidiyyah who to be honest have a lot less dodgy beliefs and practices than most people who label themselves sunni.

1 and 2 are non muslims, the scholars of ahlus sunnah have agreed on this matter, though you shouldnt call an individual one of them a kaffir until you have established they believe in the kufr matters that their ulema do as a jammat.

3. are muslims and pay the zakaat like everyone else.

now how do we deal with 1 or 2 as a group if we had a true islamic state? as we cannot have kuffar calling themselves muslim.

:sl:
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ninetrey
01-21-2009, 02:49 PM
esselamu aleikum

this thread was basically directed to group number 1 and 2 because
worshiping imams is basically veneration of saints isnt it?
same with worshipping their leaders!i would even go so far to say
that the worshipping of mohammad is venerating of saints so that would
even make some sunnis kafir right?the quran says veneration of saints
is a sin and the only one that should be marked as holy is allah himself.
so that would mean that even the quran is not holy right?am i right?

Subhan Allah
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Dawud_uk
01-22-2009, 06:55 AM
Originally Posted by ninetrey
esselamu aleikum

this thread was basically directed to group number 1 and 2 because
worshiping imams is basically veneration of saints isnt it?
same with worshipping their leaders!i would even go so far to say
that the worshipping of mohammad is venerating of saints so that would
even make some sunnis kafir right?the quran says veneration of saints
is a sin and the only one that should be marked as holy is allah himself.
so that would mean that even the quran is not holy right?am i right?

Subhan Allah
:w:

exactly, anyone who takes another as lord besides Allah in matters that belong only to Allah is a kaffir.

so yes some people who seek the intercession of muhammad (saws) and various pious men after they have died have committed kufr akbar and are outside the fold of islam.

:w:
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ninetrey
01-22-2009, 04:56 PM
Thats what im talking about!!

esselamu aleikum
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MinAhlilHadeeth
01-22-2009, 05:04 PM
so that would mean that even the quran is not holy right?am i right?
The Qur'aan is the Speech of Allaah, uncreated. Therefore, it is from His Attributes.

Note: I am not talking about the paper or ink, or the actions of our tongues... rather the Qur'aan itself.
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BlackMamba
01-22-2009, 06:28 PM
Well all those 3 types of Shias are allowed in Masjid Al-Haram(I'm pretty sure) and no kuffar are allowed there so I don't know
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Dawud_uk
01-23-2009, 07:02 AM
Originally Posted by Shakoor15
Well all those 3 types of Shias are allowed in Masjid Al-Haram(I'm pretty sure) and no kuffar are allowed there so I don't know
they are not supposed to be kuffar allowed in the land of the two holy sanctuaries at all, but they are still there years after the supposed threat that justified their entering saudi has gone.
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ninetrey
01-23-2009, 03:23 PM
can someone please explain me to exect difference between sunnis and shiites?
in prayer and in just anything?

esselamu aleikum wa rahmetulah
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ardianto
01-23-2009, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by ninetrey
can someone please explain me to exect difference between sunnis and shiites?
in prayer and in just anything?

esselamu aleikum wa rahmetulah
Mualaikum salam wa rahmatulah.

That is a very sensitive question. And you must know, the answer of your question is potential to make a clash between sunni and shia member in this forum.
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aamirsaab
01-23-2009, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Mualaikum salam wa rahmatulah.

That is a very sensitive question. And you must know, the answer of your question is potential to make a clash between sunni and shia member in this forum.
:sl:
As such, perhaps it would be better to provide that answer via pm? That aside, I believe this thread can be locked now.

(thread starter can pm me if he wants it open again)
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