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'Abd-al Latif
01-22-2009, 11:53 AM
23 proofs of Israel's defeat in the 23-day war

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:40:32 GMT
By Sami al-Habib, Press TV

People rally in support of Hamas in Gaza after the war.


Israel began its Operation Cast Lead against Hamas in the Gaza Strip on December 27, 2008, an almost three-week long bloodbath which killed or wounded thousands of civilians.

Taking into consideration the lessons the regime learned from its defeat in the summer 2006 war against the Lebanese Hezbollah, Tel Aviv avoided setting out any specific objectives for its military operation in a bid to enable it to claim victory after the conflict ended.

The Israeli military initially presumed that it could settle its old score with Hamas and crush the movement in a matter of days. Relying on the support of some Arab states which viewed Hamas's defeat as a blow to Iran, the regime, therefore, took the opportunity provided by the transitional period in the White House and escalated its bombing campaign into a full-blown ground offensive to kill Hamas leaders once and for all.

The plan, however, blew up in the face of its masterminds; everything spiraled out of control and the Israeli Army found itself stuck in a quagmire. Subsequently, the leaders of the Kadima Party who were on the brink of political bankruptcy and had resorted to the plan to save themselves ahead of the general elections, had to hastily find a way to clean up the mess.

They unilaterally declared a truce to break the deadlock while disguising their military failure as a humanitarian act.

However, Israeli military and political officials interestingly are still boasting about a decisive victory over Hamas. The reality on the ground proves the opposite; it indicates a defeat more humiliating than what the regime suffered in the 33-day war.

Israel was ,without doubt, the loser because:

1- From the military perspective, "the most powerful" army in the Middle East which faced only a militia group hardly advanced into the Gaza Strip's urban areas. It faced fierce resistance and realized that the price of any military victory would be too high.

2- At the beginning of the operation, Israel announced that the operation was aimed at preventing rocket attacks by Hamas and other Palestinian groups against Israeli towns. Palestinians, however, continued striking Israeli targets, even in the last hours of the war.

3- Hamas extended the range of its rockets and managed to hit targets as far away as 60 kilometers from the Gaza Strip. In fact, the Israeli operation helped Hamas boost its military might.

4- In the course of killing civilians, the Israeli regime set up a factory for producing living time bombs which will jeopardize the security situation for Israel. Civilian casualties in any conflict always radicalize members of bereaved families. Following the massacre of civilians in Gaza, it is more likely that those Palestinians who adopted a nonviolent approach to resist the Israeli occupation, will now turn to military tactics. Keep in mind that many of them have noting to lose.

5- Israel hastily signed an agreement with the US-a third party which was not directly involved in the war-to prevent "the arm smuggling" into the Gaza Strip. The deal envisaged measures to prevent Hamas from rearming, going so far as to for example seek US assistance in policing sea routes to Gaza and providing Egypt with the equipment to destroy smuggling tunnels along its border with the coastal sliver. This was however nothing but a propaganda tactic to persuade public opinion that the war had had some achievements. Shin Bet's announcement that Hamas will be able to rearm within a few months supports this notion. The Israeli media has also revealed that Washington has given no guarantees to Tel Aviv that Hamas would not be rearmed.

6- Hamas has vowed to restore its arsenals, dealing a blow to Israeli officials who claim that the movement has been "punished" and it knows that it cannot continue its armed campaign against Israel.

7- No high-ranking Hamas leader, except Said Siyam, was killed in the Israeli operation. In fact, it is estimated that out of more than thousands of victims of the Israeli offensive, only 95 people were Hamas members and most of them were killed on the first day of the attack when Hamas was caught off guard due to alleged betrayal of some Arab states.

8- Israel's defeat by a small group has shattered the image of an invincible army that overpowered the army of several Arab nations in 1967. It would not be surprising if Israel's arch foes were encouraged to settle their old score with the regime after its recent defeat. No matter what you have in your arsenals, you are considered the loser if you have been defeated in your enemy's mind. Israel seems to have entered the spiral of decline.

9- From the political perspective, Israel's situation is not any better than the one in the military arena. For the first time, two Israeli ambassadors were expelled, a big diplomatic humiliation for Tel Aviv.

10- The indiscriminate killing of civilians including women and children drew international condemnation to the point that the US, which always vetoes UN Security Council resolutions against Israel, was neutralized and gave in to mounting international pressure when the council voted on a binding resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire.

11- Israel's strategy of decreasing Hamas's popularity through putting pressure on the Gazans has obviously backfired. The Islamic movement emerged more popular than ever before after the war, because any group or person who deals a blow to Israel will be praised as a hero in the eyes of Arab nations. We witnessed the phenomenon during the 33-day war which made Seyyed Hassan Nasrallah the most popular Arab leader in the Islamic world.

12- Following the Gaza war, Mahmoud Abbas's political life came to an end. Now, Abbas who was reportedly preparing himself for returning to Gaza after the Hamas government was toppled, has to desperately beg to political brokers to find a place for him in the political future of Palestine. If Abbas loses in the Palestinian Authority general elections - a strong possibility given the situation after the Gaza war- Israel will lose its partner for peace talks.

13- Kadima's hopes for victory in the upcoming elections have been dashed. In other words, right-wing parties like the Likud and people like Israel Beitenu's and Shas's hawks will come to power, fanatics who do not even believe in peace. Israel should brace itself for days during which there would be no hope for a political solution to the current conflict.

14- The Gaza war managed another sort of uncalled for achievement for Israel: it united all Muslims and anti-Israeli parties across the world! The world has never witnessed such massive anti-Israeli rallies.

15- Hamas has set a good example for others. A small group managed to defeat the most powerful army in the Middle East. It would not be surprising if someday, we see Israel struggling to survive in a battle with a host of small or big groups and organizations which adopt military resistance as their approach.

16- The Israelis have realized that their leaders are unable to protect them; there is no safe place inside the occupied territories. It means that Israel's worst nightmare is coming true: a dramatic rise in the rate of negative immigration followed by major demographical impacts. It could shake the foundation of the Israeli regime through changing the Jewish people to a minority group in occupied Palestine. The apprehensions about this issue have so far prompted the regime to deny Palestinian refugees the right to return to their land.

17- After the war, the world is recognizing Hamas as a major player whose role can no longer be ignored and it cannot be excluded from any political process in the Middle East.

18- Prime Minister Ismail Haniya called the war "Forqan", a Quranic word meaning what separates good and evil. The outcome of the war weakened those Arab states who had adopted a pro-Israeli stance. On the other hand, it also highlighted the significance of the role of pro-resistance countries including Iran and Syria. Therefore, the balance of power has changed with regards to Israel's interests.

19- Kadima leaders made a fool of themselves and showed that they lack the qualifications required to lead the regime. Kadima, which was set up by former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to end the regime's political deadlock, committed a political suicide by attacking Gaza.

20- The war also weakened the political base of those leaders of Islamic countries who are close to Israel. They have to face their people. The process has already started as we have witnessed demonstrations in some countries in which political or social protests are rare.

21- Despite nonstop bombing of the Gaza Strip by unconventional weapons, Gazans kept their high morale, a fact reported by Western journalists. There were no long queues of people at border crossings wanting to flee to a safe place. Inside Israeli towns, scores of people were treated for "shock" everyday. In other words, Israel has also lost the psychological war.

22- The war unfortunately fueled anti-Semitic sentiments across the world. Although attacks on Jews or their property under any pretext are certainly condemned, the fact indicates that Israel, despite paying lip service to the world Jewry, never considers the interests of the Jewish. Tel Aviv even turned down a request by 11 prominent leaders of the British Jewish community who asked the regime to stop its offensive for the sake of their security.

23- There are and will be groups which will open legal cases against Israel in international courts for its war crimes in Gaza. If Hamas had been destroyed, Israeli leaders might have been able to claim that it had been worth paying such a heavy price. But without achieving anything , how can they justify their acts which have drawn a wave of international condemnation?

The Gaza war has certainly changed the status quo against Israel. History seems to repeat itself; the situation is the same as that of the days after the end of the 33-Day War except for one thing: this time, the regime has no excuse to justify its defeat; there was no inexperienced defense minister leading the war.

The Gaza war dealt the last blow to the Israeli regime and its end result is the start of a battle within the regime which will put its very existence at risk.

Those who make a mistake once may be considered as inexperienced but those who repeat their mistakes are certainly judged as being "incompetent and insane". Shall we expect another Winograd report?

PressTV
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'Abd-al Latif
01-22-2009, 12:15 PM
Reminds me of the Battle of Badr.


وَإِذۡ زَيَّنَ لَهُمُ ٱلشَّيۡطَـٰنُ أَعۡمَـٰلَهُمۡ وَقَالَ لَا غَالِبَ لَڪُمُ ٱلۡيَوۡمَ مِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ وَإِنِّى جَارٌ۬ لَّڪُمۡ*ۖ فَلَمَّا تَرَآءَتِ ٱلۡفِئَتَانِ نَكَصَ عَلَىٰ عَقِبَيۡهِ وَقَالَ إِنِّى بَرِىٓءٌ۬ مِّنڪُمۡ إِنِّىٓ أَرَىٰ مَا لَا تَرَوۡنَ إِنِّىٓ أَخَافُ ٱللَّهَ*ۚ وَٱللَّهُ شَدِيدُ ٱلۡعِقَابِ

"And when Satan made their deeds seem fair to them and said: No-one of mankind can conquer you this day, for I am your protector. But when the armies came in sight of one another, he took flight, saying: Lo! I am guiltless of you. Lo! I see that which ye see not. Lo! I fear Allah. And Allah is severe in punishment." (8:48)
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Mr. Sandman
01-22-2009, 03:54 PM
Would there be 24 reasons if it lasted 24 days? :D

On a more serious note, I do not think it really matters who won or lost...there are much more important and pressing things about the conflict to think or worry about...

Just my $0.02. :)
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Olive
01-22-2009, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Reminds me of the Battle of Badr.


وَإِذۡ زَيَّنَ لَهُمُ ٱلشَّيۡطَـٰنُ أَعۡمَـٰلَهُمۡ وَقَالَ لَا غَالِبَ لَڪُمُ ٱلۡيَوۡمَ مِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ وَإِنِّى جَارٌ۬ لَّڪُمۡ*ۖ فَلَمَّا تَرَآءَتِ ٱلۡفِئَتَانِ نَكَصَ عَلَىٰ عَقِبَيۡهِ وَقَالَ إِنِّى بَرِىٓءٌ۬ مِّنڪُمۡ إِنِّىٓ أَرَىٰ مَا لَا تَرَوۡنَ إِنِّىٓ أَخَافُ ٱللَّهَ*ۚ وَٱللَّهُ شَدِيدُ ٱلۡعِقَابِ

"And when Satan made their deeds seem fair to them and said: No-one of mankind can conquer you this day, for I am your protector. But when the armies came in sight of one another, he took flight, saying: Lo! I am guiltless of you. Lo! I see that which ye see not. Lo! I fear Allah. And Allah is severe in punishment." (8:48)
Indeed... :thumbs_up

May Allah humiliate the nation of Israel.
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01-22-2009, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by Hanz
May Allah humiliate the nation of Israel.
Ameen!!!




'Then when Talut (Saul) set out with the army, he said: "Verily! Allah will try you by a river. So whoever drinks thereof, he is not of me, and whoever tastes it not, he is of me, except him who takes (thereof) in the hollow of his hand." Yet, they drank thereof, all, except a few of them. So when he had crossed it (the river), he and those who believed with him, they said: "We have no power this day against Jalut (Goliath) and his hosts." But those who knew with certainty that they were to meet their Lord, said:
"How often a small group overcame a mighty host by Allah's Leave?"
And Allah is with As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.).'


[AL-BAQARAH:249]
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K.Venugopal
01-22-2009, 05:16 PM
As the one sided war was going on and Gaza was being mercilessly pounded, I wondered where the rest of the Arab and Muslim world were. Why did not any of the many Arab states in the region send its army to the aid of Palestinians? Why did Hezbollah not lend a helping hand any which way? They did launch some missiles, but stopped when sternly warned by Israel. Before Arab nations were at least willing to go to war with Israel, though they were defeated. Now no one is even challenging Israel. While the 33 days war was no doubt a Hezbollah victory, the Hamas can hardly claim anything of that sort in this 23 days war. Israel wanted the missiles stopped and it has stopped. Maybe Hamas might resume it a year later, but I think a year later Israel would be even bolder in seeking to crush Hamas.
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Snowflake
01-22-2009, 05:42 PM
^It's wishful thinking that Hamas will ever be crushed. Israel hadn't reckoned the force they were met with and ran with it's tail between it's legs to cut its losses. Not that I'm defending them but as for why no arabs state defended Palestine, you should watch 'the arrivals' (youtube) from episode 1 to get all your answers. Dare you do that? It might open your eyes to the truth about zionism and their biggest enemy - Islam!
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'Abd-al Latif
01-22-2009, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
As the one sided war was going on and Gaza was being mercilessly pounded, I wondered where the rest of the Arab and Muslim world were. Why did not any of the many Arab states in the region send its army to the aid of Palestinians? Why did Hezbollah not lend a helping hand any which way? They did launch some missiles, but stopped when sternly warned by Israel. Before Arab nations were at least willing to go to war with Israel, though they were defeated. Now no one is even challenging Israel. While the 33 days war was no doubt a Hezbollah victory, the Hamas can hardly claim anything of that sort in this 23 days war. Israel wanted the missiles stopped and it has stopped. Maybe Hamas might resume it a year later, but I think a year later Israel would be even bolder in seeking to crush Hamas.
Really? Did you over-look this:

At the beginning of the operation, Israel announced that the operation was aimed at preventing rocket attacks by Hamas and other Palestinian groups against Israeli towns. Palestinians, however, continued striking Israeli targets, even in the last hours of the war.
Bear in mind that the news is telling you their side of the story while the Palestinians living in Palestine are telling you another! Israel haven't even reported the facts about their own soldiers being captured and killed, it was the Palestinian civilians who did!

I somehow doubt Israel will lift the blockade of Palestine that caused this whole 23 day war in the first place so i'm pretty sure Hamas will strike very soon.

Keep an eye on the news :statisfie

P.S

Bear also in mind, if Hamas launch a single rocket into Israel then this whole operation was a complete and total loss because they have failed their objectives to neutralize Hamas.
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S1aveofA11ah
01-22-2009, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
As the one sided war was going on and Gaza was being mercilessly pounded, I wondered where the rest of the Arab and Muslim world were. Why did not any of the many Arab states in the region send its army to the aid of Palestinians? Why did Hezbollah not lend a helping hand any which way? They did launch some missiles, but stopped when sternly warned by Israel. Before Arab nations were at least willing to go to war with Israel, though they were defeated. Now no one is even challenging Israel. While the 33 days war was no doubt a Hezbollah victory, the Hamas can hardly claim anything of that sort in this 23 days war. Israel wanted the missiles stopped and it has stopped. Maybe Hamas might resume it a year later, but I think a year later Israel would be even bolder in seeking to crush Hamas.
Concerned bringer of peace to this world crammed full of injustices, with utmost respect, where was the Hindu army?.
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crayon
01-22-2009, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Maybe Hamas might resume it a year later, but I think a year later Israel would be even bolder in seeking to crush Hamas.
Israel may crush Hamas someday, but it can never crush what Hamas represents, which is opposition to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands.

As long as Palestinians exist, they will keep working for the return of their land. Their methods may differ, but ultimately, the goal is one.
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Trumble
01-22-2009, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
23 proofs of Israel's defeat in the 23-day war

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:40:32 GMT
By Sami al-Habib, Press TV

People rally in support of Hamas in Gaza after the war.
According to Press TV. Cough... I wonder when that photo was taken.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, let's see what really happened...

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S1aveofA11ah
01-22-2009, 07:44 PM
As you are from them, what have the Buddhists done in all this evil?. I know many people have marched, protested and voiced their dislike to the atrocities. Specifically, can you tell me what the followers of Buddhism have done in all this loss of peace the world is witnessing please?.

I hope we agree on what is happening that is, after all who knows which papers are lying and which are telling the truth?. Rather than make this the issue - why not solve the problem. Would be interested to see exactly what your people have done with regards to this injustice to mankind.
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Trumble
01-22-2009, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by S1aveofA11ah
Specifically, can you tell me what the followers of Buddhism have done in all this loss of peace the world is witnessing please?.
Much the same as everybody else, in relation to this particular conflict, I suspect. There is no central Buddhist authority, any more than there is a central Islamic authority. The general Buddhist approach would be non-violence (if not always outright pacifism).

As regard the loss of world peace in general, I think the answer would be "aiming to avoid losing more of it wherever possible". I draw your attention to the Dalai Lama's position regarding the Chinese occupation of Tibet, for example. Sadly, as with Islam, not everybody who would claim to be a Buddhist behaves as a Buddhist should.. look at the conflict in Sri Lanka :(
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The_Prince
01-22-2009, 08:14 PM
i can add a 24th reason, after the war ended thousands of Palestinians marched through Gaza keeping their heads up and not bowing down, that is probaly the biggest victory of all, that these people no matter how much brutality you throw at them, they will not cower in the dark and give up, they will march through the ruins and continue their demand for freedom and justice!
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'Abd-al Latif
01-22-2009, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
According to Press TV. Cough... I wonder when that photo was taken.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, let's see what really happened...
This is what I never understood about you guys. Why do you limit yourself to one source?? The BBC (Bush and Brown Cooperation) have always been biased. The BBC is the national news channel in Britan, the British are the ones who granted the Israeli's permission to take over someone elses country, the British are the closest Allies of the US, the British are backing Israel in all forms of oppression by supplying them with weapons and what not, the British sent their soldiers in Muslim lands at the start of the war in Iraq. Wake up and smell the coffie, are the british news channels going to inform you of about the reality of Palestine and Muslims?? They hardly took much concern because the situation of Gaza wasn't even something they would keep in the head lines for longer then two days! And even then it was Israel Israel Israel!

When Israel and Palestine were at war I took that opportunity to browse through different news websites and surprise surprise! BBC was one of the top 5 websites coming out with biased information, lies about Hamas, and some information which was pure nonsense to the extent that I wouldn't even bother reading half the article.

1 British soldier dies in a country where he isn't supposed to be, US and UK make such a big deal about it. Yet they fail to mention the 100's and 1000's of people killed because of the invasion in Iraq and the soldiers in Afghanistan. The western countries care about their own people and their own reputation, they couldn't care less about the Muslims and their lands!

Allies of BBC such as Sky News and Fox showing Israeli homes with a hole in their wall, yet the 1000's that died in Palestine were hardly mentioned!

During the Lebenese war, 100's of innocent woman and children died, Israel blatently making their soul target the Lebenese capital far away from the army and all BBC and co was concerned about was the 2 captured Israeli soldiers who crossed Lebenese borders! You call this real life!?

I call it plain ignorance and deception to make their own selves look like heros!

So stop asking non-muslims what the Muslims must be going through!
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'Abd-al Latif
01-22-2009, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
According to Press TV. Cough... I wonder when that photo was taken.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, let's see what really happened...

Heres your real world! Listen to this - the whole thing - if you are sincere!

Media Tags are no longer supported
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KAding
01-23-2009, 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Heres your real world! Listen to this - the whole thing - if you are sincere!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5ow1rjJ6kM
Substituting news reporting for loudmouth opinion makers! I am not sure if that is a good strategy if you are "sincere" about getting accurate information.

Regarding the topic. It is clear that Israel is losing the propaganda war. We'll have to see how much that actually harms them in the longer run.
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Najm
01-23-2009, 02:50 PM
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Akhi 'Abd-al Latif, you can never show a blind man how to see again.

Their choice in the end.

P.s. good to see concise and clear points, keep it up.

May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen

FiAmaaniAllah
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Noora_z3
01-23-2009, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
According to Press TV. Cough... I wonder when that photo was taken.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, let's see what really happened...
I think that pic is recent, becasue I actuall saw in Arabic Al-jazeera, thousands of Hamas supporters marching in the streets of Gaza. :thumbs_up:thumbs_up
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S1aveofA11ah
01-23-2009, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Substituting news reporting for loudmouth opinion makers! I am not sure if that is a good strategy if you are "sincere" about getting accurate information.

Regarding the topic. It is clear that Israel is losing the propaganda war. We'll have to see how much that actually harms them in the longer run.
Who are you to call George Galloway a loudmouth on a worldwide forum?. No one is fault free and he speaks a lot more sense than most politicians. Don't just resort to insulting someone if you disagree with his/her views...
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'Abd-al Latif
01-23-2009, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Substituting news reporting for loudmouth opinion makers! I am not sure if that is a good strategy if you are "sincere" about getting accurate information.
Do you hate him or what he says?
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KAding
01-24-2009, 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Do you hate him or what he says?
I don't hate him. But I do not particularly respect Galloway, no. Neither do I generally agree with him. But regardless, you simply can't replace a news source like BBC who have people on the ground with one person with an opinion. He provides filtered second hand information in the form of a diatribe. That simply doesn't cut it if you want to be sincere about getting an accurate picture of a situation.
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'Abd-al Latif
01-24-2009, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
I don't hate him. But I do not particularly respect Galloway, no. Neither do I generally agree with him. But regardless, you simply can't replace a news source like BBC who have people on the ground with one person with an opinion. He provides filtered second hand information in the form of a diatribe. That simply doesn't cut it if you want to be sincere about getting an accurate picture of a situation.
From my own personal observation and research i've found BBC and other news channels to convey one sided information, usually which is to promote the image of their own respective country and to aid their allies with all forms of support and cover up their mistakes whenever they slip without the slightest consideration for those who are at war with either them or their allies.

Don't believe me? Here are some very recent articles, the first from timesonline and the other from BBC:

The BBC has broken a 45 year-old agreement with overseas aid charities by refusing to broadcast a Disasters Emergency Committee fundraising appeal for Gaza “to avoid any risk of compromising public confidence in the BBC...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5568735.ece

And also:

The BBC has defended a decision not to air a TV fund-raising appeal for Gaza, saying it wanted to avoid compromising public confidence in its impartiality.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7846150.stm

Is this justice? So those who are in urgent and desprate need for help are being neglected to 'avoid compromising public confidence' ?

To carry on, take for example the issue with Palestine. The western media made Palestine seem as if though it didn't offer any resist against the Israeli army at all and it just got bombarded the whole time.

I agree that buildings were destroyed and Palestine suffered civilian losses more then 10 times that compared to the Israeli's, however I received information from people inside Palestine who witnessed this war with their own eyes. They told me a very different story to what I saw in news channels. These include the capture of Israeli soldiers and the fierce resistance of Hamas, Israel purposly blocking help and support (i.e. medicine and food etc) that was at the Egyption border and at other times even attacking them, to name but a few. Out of all of this, all that was reported in the news was that Israel attacked the Hospitals and only the UN hospitals were mentioned at that.

So coming back to George Galloway, when he says that which he has researched from Historical facts and witnessed the oppression of Israel from his own eyes as well as experiences of his family (mentioned in the video above), but no news channel ever reports any of it, he will be made to seem as a lone person who has no basis for his claims. People don't want to find answers because many believe all the answers lie in the media. This is where the problem occurs, because they (i.e. the news) have edited and prepared for you only that which they want you to see.

There's more to what meets the eye, but you certainly won't find the answers in the news channels.

Have Hamas ever been interviewed? Have their views and thougts ever been aired unedited? It's hard to interview someone when a certian people are trying so hard to kill them.

Have Hizbolla ever been interviewed? Do we know their real aims and objectives? Or do we only know what the BBC (i.e. a third party) has told us?

Have those who are in western countries who feel strongly about this war from the side of Palestine ever been interview and aired unedited?

I think not, all to promote and boast the image of themselves and their allies. Justice in their eyes is everything which glorifies their image through lies and even at the cost of the lives of innocent people. And when you tell people the truth mixed with a few lies, one will believe that all of such-and-such information is the truth.
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Trumble
01-24-2009, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
From my own personal observation and research i've found BBC and other news channels to convey one sided information, usually which is to promote the image of their own respective country and to aid their allies with all forms of support and cover up their mistakes whenever they slip without the slightest consideration for those who are at war with either them or their allies.

Don't believe me? Here are some very recent articles, the first from timesonline and the other from BBC:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5568735.ece

And also:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7846150.stm

Is this justice?

I totally disagree with that decision on the part of the BBC. ITV have got it right.

However, those examples don't really help your case. The article I just linked to makes clear that the government disagrees with the BBC position. I see no reason not to believe that it was actually the result of editorial independence in trying to remain neutral even if, in this case, they got it wrong.
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'Abd-al Latif
01-24-2009, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I totally disagree with that decision on the part of the BBC. ITV have got it right.

However, those examples don't really help your case. The article I just linked to makes clear that the government disagrees with the BBC position. I see no reason not to believe that it was actually the result of editorial independence in trying to remain neutral even if, in this case, they got it wrong.
Thanks, I'm still in the process of finding hard facts regarding this current issue of Gaza Fund Raisers so at the moment I didn't have much apart from those links.
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'Abd-al Latif
02-01-2009, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
As the one sided war was going on and Gaza was being mercilessly pounded, I wondered where the rest of the Arab and Muslim world were. Why did not any of the many Arab states in the region send its army to the aid of Palestinians? Why did Hezbollah not lend a helping hand any which way? They did launch some missiles, but stopped when sternly warned by Israel. Before Arab nations were at least willing to go to war with Israel, though they were defeated. Now no one is even challenging Israel. While the 33 days war was no doubt a Hezbollah victory, the Hamas can hardly claim anything of that sort in this 23 days war. Israel wanted the missiles stopped and it has stopped. Maybe Hamas might resume it a year later, but I think a year later Israel would be even bolder in seeking to crush Hamas.
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Keep an eye on the news


P.S

Bear also in mind, if Hamas launch a single rocket into Israel then this whole operation was a complete and total loss because they have failed their objectives to neutralize Hamas.
I was waiting for this to happen:

At least three rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip on Sunday, but caused no damage or injuries, police said.
Halting the Palestinian fire was one of Israel's stated aims for the air, naval and ground assault that also caused hundreds of casualties and destroyed much of the territory's infrastructure.

But there has been sporadic rocket fire across the border and a number of Israeli air raids since the truces were announced.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...533438613.html

I rest my case, Israel failed miserably in it's objectives.
Reply

K.Venugopal
02-06-2009, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
I was waiting for this to happen:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...533438613.html

I rest my case, Israel failed miserably in it's objectives.
The continued firing of missiles into Israel by Hamas only proves that Israel prematurely stopped its war on the 23rd day. This happened because Israel wanted to schedule its war according to American political convenience. Here Israel should learn a lesson from Hamas. Hamas is fighting its war according to it own convenience, not that of others.
Reply

Trumble
02-13-2009, 10:44 PM
Meanwhile, back in the real world...... again. With the Israelis 'defeated' the 'heroes' of Hamas are finding something else to do with their time.

New evidence has emerged revealing the extent of the crackdown by Hamas during and after Israel's war in Gaza last month.

Amnesty International said Hamas forces and militias were involved in a "campaign of abductions, deliberate and unlawful killings, torture and death threats against those they accuse of 'collaborating' with Israel, as well as opponents and critics". It said at least two dozen men had been shot by Hamas since the end of December and "scores of others" shot in the legs, kneecapped or beaten.Amnesty gave detailed accounts of some of the cases and said there was "incontrovertible evidence" that Hamas security forces and militia were "responsible for grave human rights abuses". Hamas officials have admitted hunting for suspected collaborators, but they have denied this campaign of attacks.

Hamas apparently fears it lost some of its control in Gaza during Israel's devastating three-week war and launched a new and violent crackdown to enforce its rule, targeting not only those suspected of giving information to the Israeli military but also escaped prisoners and all perceived internal opponents.

The new evidence corroborates witness accounts given to the Guardian, as well as an investigation by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, based in Gaza City, that found 32 people had been killed by the Palestinian security services and other gunmen in Gaza since the war began, and that dozens more were shot or beaten.

In an interview today, one Palestinian working for a civil society organisation described how he was forced to leave Gaza because of the growing intimidation and threats. Mowaffaq Alami, 36, worked for the One Voice organisation in Gaza promoting grassroots discussions about Israeli-Palestinian peace proposals.

After Hamas took full security control of Gaza in June 2007, its forces raided the group's office and seized computers and other equipment. One Voice later closed its office, but the staff went on working from home. Then Hamas ordered all civil society groups to obtain its permission to continue their work. One Voice refused and six months ago halted all its work in Gaza.

"People are afraid to live normal lives, to express their opinions freely," Alami said. "There is no freedom of speech, of movement, of travelling or having real healthcare. Hamas is raising George Bush's policy: those not with us are against us." One of his colleagues was forced to leave Gaza after receiving threats from Hamas.

The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights said Hamas had tightened its restrictions on civil society groups, ordering them to inform the Hamas authorities before receiving or distributing aid and obtain Hamas approval before starting new construction or development work.

Alami, who secured a rare permit to leave Gaza a week ago with his family to live in the West Bank, said there were frequently differences between orders given by local Hamas commanders on the ground and the more senior leadership within the movement. Other small extremist movements were also beginning to return to force again – one prominent cafe in Gaza City was bombed last week.

He said many Palestinians no longer felt affiliated to any political group, either Hamas or Fatah, its West Bank-based rival. "Politicians and the media think that there is a simple division between Gaza and the West Bank, between Hamas and Fatah ... The majority of the Palestinian people today are with none of them"
www.guardian.co.uk
Reply

Wilma_Hum
02-14-2009, 04:49 PM
If there are many more victories like the last one, all fighting will end.

Because all the Palestinians have been killed.
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