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Follower
02-05-2009, 02:22 PM
There is no other or has there ever been a man on the face of the earth like Jesus.
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Qingu
02-05-2009, 04:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
There is no other or has there ever been a man on the face of the earth like Jesus.
There is no other or has there ever been a man on the face of the earth like Bruce Campbell.
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glo
02-05-2009, 04:42 PM
Arguably, Jesus is perhaps the man to have captured the interest of the greatest amount of people - from many different religions and none.
There is just something about him, which seems difficult to resist.
:)

(Unlike Bruce Campbell perhaps. Although, genetically speaking, Campbell is of course entirely unique. But so are you and me.)

Out of interest, why Bruce Campbell, Qingu? Are you a particular fan? Or is the choice purely random?? :D

Peace
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AntiKarateKid
02-05-2009, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Arguably, Jesus is perhaps the man to have captured the interest of the greatest amount of people - from many different religions and none.
There is just something about him, which seems difficult to resist.
:)

(Unlike Bruce Campbell perhaps. Although, genetically speaking, Campbell is of course entirely unique. But so are you and me.)

Out of interest, why Bruce Campbell, Qingu? Are you a particular fan? Or is the choice purely random?? :D

Peace
Perhaps because of the Jew's rejection of him and the Christian's deification of him?

He was a great Prophet with many miracles but....

The actions of the those that accepted him/rejected him is why he is so popular.

It is at his time that the roots of the three great religions took hold. If that had not been so, it would not have been as interesting.

It is the lack of and contradicting information about him that is also most interesting.



If you want to talk about the most influential person in history,

that was Prophet Muhammad pbuh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100

No other figure in history has been so well known, successful and mimicked in every minute detail than him.
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Soulja Girl
02-05-2009, 05:05 PM
:sl:

Well he is (Peace be upon him) unique cuz he never had a father to begin with... =D

:w:
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glo
02-05-2009, 05:08 PM
Greetings, AntiKarateKid

I really don't mean to enter into a debate about who is greater - Jesus or Muhammed.

What I meant was that Jesus is well liked and respected by people of many religions and none. His person, his life-style and his teachings are not something that leaves people cold.
The fact that he is so much debated and discussed shown that quite well.


I am sure that Muhammed is a well-respected and much liked person too. The Muslim habit of copying him in detail is very interesting, and is certainly not something Jesus seemed to expect from his followers.

Salaam :)
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Danah
02-05-2009, 05:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
If you want to talk about the most influential person in history,

that was Prophet Muhammad pbuh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100

No other figure in history has been so well known, successful and mimicked in every minute detail than him.
I was just about posting this, jazak allah khair brother

and actually its interesting thing to be written from a christian author to consider prophet Mohammed as the most influential person in history

while he considered Jesus Peace be upon him in the third place

but we as a muslims dont give Michael H. Hart that much consideration in his ranking because all of the prophets are equal, no one is better than the others

Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers
[1:285]
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AntiKarateKid
02-05-2009, 05:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Greetings, AntiKarateKid

I really don't mean to enter into a debate about who is greater - Jesus or Muhammed.

What I meant was that Jesus is well liked and respected by people of many religions and none. His person, his life-style and his teachings are not something that leaves people cold.
The fact that he is so much debated and discussed shown that quite well.


I am sure that Muhammed is a well-respected and much liked person too. The Muslim habit of copying him in detail is very interesting, and is certainly not something Jesus seemed to expect from his followers.

Salaam :)
Glo, everything you said goes for Prophet Muhammad pbuh too.
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Mr. Sandman
02-05-2009, 05:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

If you want to talk about the most influential person in history,

that was Prophet Muhammad pbuh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100

No other figure in history has been so well known, successful and mimicked in every minute detail than him.
It is Michael H. Hart's opinion that Prophet Muhammad was the most influential person in history...his opinion does not hold true for everyone though.
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Triumphant
02-05-2009, 05:56 PM
you obviously never heard of prophet muhammad
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crayon
02-05-2009, 05:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SAYA
Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers
[1:285]
Jazaki Allah khair, sister.:)
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AntiKarateKid
02-05-2009, 06:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Swift
It is Michael H. Hart's opinion that Prophet Muhammad was the most influential person in history...his opinion does not hold true for everyone though.
It is not his "authority" I appeal to but the points he raises.

1. Every word of the Quran is law.
2. Every action of the Prophet pbuh is imitated
3. An entirely new legal system was founded by the Quran
4. Biographies and historical information is so abundant that Prophet Muhammad pbuh is the most well known Prophet of all time. As opposed to the controversies and ambiguities surrounding the ministry of Isa pbuh and the complete lack of info about his life before he preached.
5. for further points visit this site


http://www.jamaat.net/hart/thetop100.html
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Qingu
02-05-2009, 08:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Greetings, AntiKarateKid

I really don't mean to enter into a debate about who is greater - Jesus or Muhammed.

[I]What I meant was that Jesus is well liked and respected by people of many religions and none. His person, his life-style and his teachings are not something that leaves people cold.
I disagree. If the real Jesus resembles the character of the gospels (which is probably a stretch), he leaves me plenty cold and I have little respect for him.

He was a cultist who told his followers to leave behind their friends and families to join them. Yes, he had some good moral lessons, which were a nice antidote from the insanity of Phariseic Jewish thought at the time. But plenty of Jews, as well as Greeks and Romans, had a peaceful philosophy of life as well. Many of Jesus' teachings are silly, impractical, or worse. In addition, Jesus constantly threatened his followers with hellfire and torture, and compares them to slaves and children with respect to an imaginary deity.

Unless the real Jesus was somehow a hippie like some leftists claim, I'm not a fan of the guy. Of course, it's difficult to know what the man actually thought, since the gospels were all written decades after he died by highly sectarian zealots.

Out of interest, why Bruce Campbell, Qingu? Are you a particular fan? Or is the choice purely random?? :D
I think it's because of the cross. Jesus got crucified. So did Spartacus. And I've always had this idea that Bruce Campbell should play Spartacus in a sequel, Spartacus II: The Roman Empire Strikes Back. It starts where the first movie left off, with Spartacus hanging on the cross and his girlfriend going off with the slaver dude. But then Spartacus busts off the cross, beats up the Roman guards, and starts fighting the Empire again. Eventually he takes down Crassus and rescues Verinia, after fighting ninjas.
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Keltoi
02-05-2009, 10:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
I disagree. If the real Jesus resembles the character of the gospels (which is probably a stretch), he leaves me plenty cold and I have little respect for him.

He was a cultist who told his followers to leave behind their friends and families to join them. Yes, he had some good moral lessons, which were a nice antidote from the insanity of Phariseic Jewish thought at the time. But plenty of Jews, as well as Greeks and Romans, had a peaceful philosophy of life as well. Many of Jesus' teachings are silly, impractical, or worse. In addition, Jesus constantly threatened his followers with hellfire and torture, and compares them to slaves and children with respect to an imaginary deity.
Care to share a quote from Christ in which He threatens His followers with hellfire and torture? Sure, dying in sin is thought to be the path to spiritual death, meaning Hell, but I'm curious which of Christ's sayings led you to this conclusion.
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AntiKarateKid
02-05-2009, 10:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Care to share a quote from Christ in which He threatens His followers with hellfire and torture? Sure, dying in sin is thought to be the path to spiritual death, meaning Hell, but I'm curious which of Christ's sayings led you to this conclusion.
Dont worry Keltoi, atheists always accuse the Prophets of threatening people whenever they inform the masses about the reality of paradise and hell. It is a reality check not a threat.
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Qingu
02-06-2009, 03:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Care to share a quote from Christ in which He threatens His followers with hellfire and torture? Sure, dying in sin is thought to be the path to spiritual death, meaning Hell, but I'm curious which of Christ's sayings led you to this conclusion.
Mark 13. Many of the parables also are clearly threats. They characterize God as a slaveowner and humans as slaves, who had better be good, obedient slaves or the slaveowner will torture them and/or kill them when he gets back.

Dont worry Keltoi, atheists always accuse the Prophets of threatening people whenever they inform the masses about the reality of paradise and hell. It is a reality check not a threat.
Actually, I'd call it an "empty threat."

Sort of like if I said, "If you don't give me $1,000 over Paypal right now, Space Emperor Zargon will abduct you in the middle of the night and torture you for hours before erasing your memories and returning you to your bed."
Reply

AntiKarateKid
02-06-2009, 04:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
Mark 13. Many of the parables also are clearly threats. They characterize God as a slaveowner and humans as slaves, who had better be good, obedient slaves or the slaveowner will torture them and/or kill them when he gets back.


Actually, I'd call it an "empty threat."

Sort of like if I said, "If you don't give me $1,000 over Paypal right now, Space Emperor Zargon will abduct you in the middle of the night and torture you for hours before erasing your memories and returning you to your bed."
Or instead disbelievers are arrogant fools who constantly reject Allah and spread lies in the world while masquerading as "good"? They are unthankful for their life and complain about just punishment?

24 And they say: There is naught but our life of the world; we die and we live, and naught destroyeth us save time; when they have no knowledge whatsoever of (all) that; they do but guess.
25 And when Our clear revelations are recited unto them their only argument is that they say: Bring (back) our fathers. then, if ye are truthful.
26 Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Allah giveth life to you, then causeth you to die, then gathereth you unto the Day of Resurrection whereof there is no doubt. But most of mankind know not.
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mkh4JC
02-06-2009, 05:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
Mark 13. Many of the parables also are clearly threats. They characterize God as a slaveowner and humans as slaves, who had better be good, obedient slaves or the slaveowner will torture them and/or kill them when he gets back.

Well, there is truth to this, as if you are a Christian then you are a slave to righteousness, but if you are in anything else then you are a slave to sin.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-06-2009, 05:20 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
There is no other or has there ever been a man on the face of the earth like Jesus.
Interesting thread. I don't intend to start a debate here, but the following is the only thing I intend to contribute:

{O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth..}[Qur'an: 4:171]

format_quote Originally Posted by SAYA
but we as a muslims dont give Michael H. Hart that much consideration in his ranking because all of the prophets are equal, no one is better than the others
I agree with your position on Hart's ranking. I don't really believe that the ranking carries any weight. However, I have to point out that this is an incorrect understanding of the verse sister because Allaah says elsewhere in the same surah: "Those messengers - some of them We caused to exceed others. Among them were those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in degree." Some Messengers are in higher ranks than others, such as the Messengers of great determination (ulul 'azam) as mentioned by Allaah in the last verse of Surah al-Ahqaf. The verse you quoted refers to those people that believe in some Messengers and disbelieve in others thus causing a distinction between them as Allaah says in surah an-Nisa: "Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between -" Not making a distinction between them refers to believing in all the Prophets and Messengers from Adam (alayhis salam) to the final Messenger Muhammad (salalahu 'alayhi wa sallam) as Allaah says two ayaat later in the same surah: "But they who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not discriminate between any of them..". Hope that clears this up. :)

:w:
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sevgi
02-06-2009, 06:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
There is no other or has there ever been a man on the face of the earth like Jesus.
Ofcourse there was no man like him on earth. There was only one Jesus.

He was a special man. A very special man. If only he was given the priviledge of keeping the image of a man. He is now the image of a confusing blur of ghostly divinity.
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Caller الداعي
02-06-2009, 07:23 AM
:sl:
55. And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad , 'Iesa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."

56. "As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."

57. And as for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah) and do righteous good deeds, Allah will pay them their reward in full. And Allah does not like the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers).

58. This is what We recite to you (O Muhammad ) of the Verses and the Wise Reminder (i.e. the Qur'an).

59. Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.

61. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allah, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad ) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie."

62. Verily! This is the true narrative [about the story of 'Iesa (Jesus)], and, La ilaha ill-Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah, the One and the Only True God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allah is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.

63. And if they turn away (and do not accept these true proofs and evidences), then surely, Allah is All-Aware of those who do mischief.

64. Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."
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glo
02-06-2009, 07:37 AM
Do we all agree then with Followers original statement that there is indeed "no other or has there ever been a man on the face of the earth like Jesus"?
Except for those who don't believe that Jesus ever existed, all others would have to agree ... wouldn't they?

Now, we can turn this thread into a heated debate on whether Muhammed or Jesus is the greater, whether Christianity or Islam is truer ... or we can just run with Follower's original statement and rejoice in how much we all respect and love Jesus.

Does anybody have a problem with that?

Peace :)
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Caller الداعي
02-06-2009, 07:53 AM
:sl:

252. These are the Verses of Allah, We recite them to you (O Muhammad ) in truth, and surely, you are one of the Messengers (of Allah).

253. Those Messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of them Allah spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour); and to 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), We gave clear proofs and evidences, and supported him with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)]. If Allah had willed, succeeding generations would not have fought against each other, after clear Verses of Allah had come to them, but they differed - some of them believed and others disbelieved. If Allah had willed, they would not have fought against one another, but Allah does what He likes.




Volume 4, Book 55, Number 627:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "None should say that I am better than Yunus bin Matta."
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Danah
02-06-2009, 09:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad
:sl:
I agree with your position on Hart's ranking. I don't really believe that the ranking carries any weight. However, I have to point out that this is an incorrect understanding of the verse sister because Allaah says elsewhere in the same surah: "Those messengers - some of them We caused to exceed others. Among them were those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in degree." Some Messengers are in higher ranks than others, such as the Messengers of great determination (ulul 'azam) as mentioned by Allaah in the last verse of Surah al-Ahqaf. The verse you quoted refers to those people that believe in some Messengers and disbelieve in others thus causing a distinction between them as Allaah says in surah an-Nisa: "Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between -" Not making a distinction between them refers to believing in all the Prophets and Messengers from Adam (alayhis salam) to the final Messenger Muhammad (salalahu 'alayhi wa sallam) as Allaah says two ayaat later in the same surah: "But they who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not discriminate between any of them..". Hope that clears this up. :)

:w:

jazak allah khair for ur explanation, but can u clarify this to me please?
as u said that Allah gave or granted each messanger with a specific trait so they are in different ranks. But for us as followers, can we consider that ranking as well? for us they are all deliver the same message, each one of them was given a miracle according to the era they have been sent in.

in other way, the messangers of great determination (ulul 'azam) (Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed) were different than the others because they faced the most hard difficulties when they called people to the message. The ranking is from Allah in tasks and miracles, but to us followers is this mean that some of them are better than the others?

I hope you got what I meant...
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Whatsthepoint
02-06-2009, 02:07 PM
He did seem a good fella.
As for who's the greatest person in history, I think it's Confucious.
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Keltoi
02-06-2009, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
Mark 13. Many of the parables also are clearly threats. They characterize God as a slaveowner and humans as slaves, who had better be good, obedient slaves or the slaveowner will torture them and/or kill them when he gets back.
I suppose as a Christian I view the verses in Mark quite differently. I'm not threatened by it in the least. It contains one of my favorite parables:

34
It is like a man traveling abroad. He leaves home and places his servants in charge, each with his work, and orders the gatekeeper to be on the watch.
35
Watch, therefore; you do not know when the lord of the house is coming, whether in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning.
36
May he not come suddenly and find you sleeping.
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Qingu
02-06-2009, 02:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I suppose as a Christian I view the verses in Mark quite differently. I'm not threatened by it in the least. It contains one of my favorite parables:

34
It is like a man traveling abroad. He leaves home and places his servants in charge, each with his work, and orders the gatekeeper to be on the watch.
35
Watch, therefore; you do not know when the lord of the house is coming, whether in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning.
36
May he not come suddenly and find you sleeping.
You're not threatened because you follow Jesus, so the parable-lord won't kill you in your sleep.

Point being, if you don't follow Jesus, you will be killed in your sleep.

What a wonderful way to get people to follow your ideology. Again, this is why I'm no fan of Jesus.
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AntiKarateKid
02-06-2009, 03:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
You're not threatened because you follow Jesus, so the parable-lord won't kill you in your sleep.

Point being, if you don't follow Jesus, you will be killed in your sleep.

What a wonderful way to get people to follow your ideology. Again, this is why I'm no fan of Jesus.
Get over it. God has power over you, if He was as "cruel" as you make Him out to be, you would have been struck by lightening for your self-professed atheism.

Instead you are allowed to live and breath another day, be exposed to Islam, and have the chance to change your ways.
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Qingu
02-06-2009, 04:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Get over it. God has power over you, if He was as "cruel" as you make Him out to be, you would have been struck by lightening for your self-professed atheism.

Instead you are allowed to live and breath another day, be exposed to Islam, and have the chance to change your ways.
Similarly, you still have the chance to give me $1000. Space Emperor Zargon hasn't come to abduct you in the middle of the night and torture you yet.

Should I PM you may Paypal account? :)
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Muezzin
02-06-2009, 04:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
There is no other or has there ever been a man on the face of the earth like Jesus.
Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers
[1:285]
I suppose we can leave it at that. The rate things are going, this thread will turn very hostile, very fast. So I'm closing it.

If you disagree, simply PM myself or another mod.
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