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Pomak
02-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Basically i wana hear primaraly what the Turks have to say about it. and then everyone else. :P

PS. list your reasons.
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Whatsthepoint
02-10-2009, 01:39 PM
We No-Turks are supossed to wait for all the Turks to say yay or nay and then say yar or nay?
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sevgi
02-10-2009, 01:46 PM
Your options had no middle ground..and I know you did that on purpose.

I said yay! for a few reasons. But before I list them, I just have to say that it will never happen...ever.

1. Turkey will have to reach utmost democratic normalness before they are accepted. This means that all stupid laws will be removed...like Article 301 and perhaps even the hijab law, environmental laws etc etc etc.

2. Turkey will be the first ever muslim populated nation to become a key player in modern western international affairs.

3. Turkey will be in more of a limelight so the governing and opposing parties will stop being cows and start doing their jobs.

4. Maybe someone will give them a lesson on what secularism is and how it is mean to be implemented.

why it wont ever happen:

1. Turkey will never become a democracy by western social and political standards. ever.

2. Turkey is too busy fighting its own people and its regional enemies to stop and focus on 'flourishing' the nation.

3. Turks will never accept the Armenian 'genocide'.
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Pomak
02-10-2009, 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
We No-Turks are supossed to wait for all the Turks to say yay or nay and then say yar or nay?
sigh, feel free to vote.

Just say if your Turkish or not.
Reply

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sevgi
02-10-2009, 01:47 PM
Btw...i took 'yay' as meaning Turkey SHOULD join the EU...not that they WILL join the EU.

Yes, I am Turkish.
Reply

Pomak
02-10-2009, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
Your options had no middle ground..and I know you did that on purpose.

I said yay! for a few reasons. But before I list them, I just have to say that it will never happen...ever.

1. Turkey will have to reach utmost democratic normalness before they are accepted. This means that all stupid laws will be removed...like Article 301 and perhaps even the hijab law, environmental laws etc etc etc.

2. Turkey will be the first ever muslim populated nation to become a key player in modern western international affairs.

3. Turkey will be in more of a limelight so the governing and opposing parties will stop being cows and start doing their jobs.

4. Maybe someone will give them a lesson on what secularism is and how it is mean to be implemented.

why it wont ever happen:

1. Turkey will never become a democracy by western social and political standards. ever.

2. Turkey is too busy fighting its own people and its regional enemies to stop and focus on 'flourishing' the nation.

3. Turks will never accept the Armenian 'genocide'.
3 questions.
1. DO you think continental European attitudes towards turks will play a role in the eventual entry or rejection. Or is it all real politic?
2. Some people have commented that Europe needs turkey, specifically its army in order to be able to be a superpower on the world stage. Is it possible for Eu to ignore some "issues" and just get turkey for that reason?
3. If its not possible, then why is AKP pushing it? real politic or stupidity?
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-10-2009, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
sigh, feel free to vote.

Just say if your Turkish or not.
No, not Turkish, EU-ish actually and I say nay.
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Pomak
02-10-2009, 02:07 PM
*cough*
Originally Posted by Pomak

PS. list your reasons.
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sevgi
02-10-2009, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
3 questions.
1. DO you think continental European attitudes towards turks will play a role in the eventual entry or rejection. Or is it all real politic?
2. Some people have commented that Europe needs turkey, specifically its army in order to be able to be a superpower on the world stage. Is it possible for Eu to ignore some "issues" and just get turkey for that reason?
3. If its not possible, then why is AKP pushing it? real politic or stupidity?
1. Derr? Lol..yes. I think that the EU is aware of the fact that their decisions that might upset the Continental Europeans and create grounds for public uprise. Playing politics through the eyes of the public is today's 'real politic'. (to me anyway)

2. Anything is a possiblity. But, no. The EU may need Turkey's military and will be at an insane advantage if they have the geographical exceptionalism of Turkey. But, bringing in answer 1. and also stating that the EU does not need the military and geographic advantage of a nation who is at war with citizens and people within its own borders. If the EU wanted Turkey to utilise some of Eatern Turkey, perhaps, for economic development or something...can you imagine what will happen??? Kurds will go nuts and rebel. Turks will die. Kurds will hence die. Armenians will be like "we want that land coz it is really ours coz you commited genocide on us but now you have given the land to the EU for your own economic advantage"................

3. Who said the AK party were pushing it. Look. Erdogan is a smart smart smart man. He knows what issues to preoccupy the nation and the media with and he knows how to do it good. If you look at all that this party has achieved, I highly believe that they could have joined the EU by now, or atleast be on the path of acceptance. I think the Ak party has move internal issues on its mind and they are working to fix them in the smartest ways that they know how.
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Whatsthepoint
02-10-2009, 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
*cough*
Sorry.
Plenty of reasons actually, first and foremost being that they don't culturally belong to Europe.
Second is the internal issues of Turkey, Kurds, Armenian genocide, secularists vs religionists, border with Iraq..
Third, the Turkish biorth rates are significantly higher than European ones, if let in, Turkey could become the most powerful country in the European parliament.
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sevgi
02-10-2009, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Third, the Turkish biorth rates are significantly higher than European ones, if let in, Turkey could become the most powerful country in the European parliament.
The EU doesn't work that way. Population power does not equal economic power. It may actually mean that Turkey could be the weakest link in the European Parliment.
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Ansariyah
02-10-2009, 02:18 PM
It will never happen.....
Because the west has not forgotten who turkey once used to be, too bad the turks have.
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Pomak
02-10-2009, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Sorry.
Plenty of reasons actually, first and foremost being that they don't culturally belong to Europe.
Second is the internal issues of Turkey, Kurds, Armenian genocide, secularists vs religionists, border with Iraq..
Third, the Turkish biorth rates are significantly higher than European ones, if let in, Turkey could become the most powerful country in the European parliament.

ok, how is Turkey less culturally European than .... Bulgaria?(I am Bulgarian btw).
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Güven
02-10-2009, 02:21 PM
I agree mostly with Sevgi;

but NO i dont want them to join the EU.

Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
they don't culturally belong to Europe.

I love being an Asian :D
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Whatsthepoint
02-10-2009, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
The EU doesn't work that way. Population power does not equal economic power. It may actually mean that Turkey could be the weakest link in the European Parliment.
Parliament seats are proportionate to population.
Number of seats doesn't equal power though.
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Whatsthepoint
02-10-2009, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
ok, how is Turkey less culturally European than .... Bulgaria?(I am Bulgarian btw).
If nothing else, Bulgaria is a Christian nation, Orthodox but Christian nevertheless.
Western Turkey is fine, quite secular and modern, the problem is the vast east.
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Pomak
02-10-2009, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Güven
I agree mostly with Sevgi;

and NO i dont want them to join the EU.




I love being an Asian :D
Why do you want em to join?
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sevgi
02-10-2009, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Parliament seats are proportionate to population.
Number of seats doesn't equal power though.
Yes I know that number of seats occupied by nation is prop to pop. :P

But they can find ways around that..i dnt know how, but they can.They did it during the colonialising period of America post Civil war. Anywho. I think you know what I was getting at. Number of seats doesnt equal power is what I was trying to say :)
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sevgi
02-10-2009, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by Güven
I agree mostly with Sevgi;

but NO i dont want them to join the EU.




I love being an Asian :D
You dnt agree with me! I want them to join...!

I love being Asian too :P Some call us middle eastern...I got mediterranean once...I felt so...Greek! :P
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aamirsaab
02-10-2009, 02:28 PM
:sl:
Given the current economical climate, more countries in the EU certainly would help via increased trading and employment. Both lead to more cash injections into the system and thus lead to consumer confidence, which means banks are back in business and the circle of life...I mean money is in full motion.

Of course, this is assuming that Turkey doesn't end up being dead weight i.e provides no increase in trading or employment. Then we'd be still in a crappy economy just with more people. Which would probably be worse.

Still, fingers (and toes!) crossed.
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Pomak
02-10-2009, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
If nothing else, Bulgaria is a Christian nation, Orthodox but Christian nevertheless.
Western Turkey is fine, quite secular and modern, the problem is the vast east.
Sevgi, is the(growing) middle class in Istanbul religious or secular?
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Whatsthepoint
02-10-2009, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
Sevgi, is the(growing) middle class in Istanbul religious or secular?
See, I don't mind religious, I mind religionists.
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Güven
02-10-2009, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
You dnt agree with me! I want them to join...!

I love being Asian too :P Some call us middle eastern...I got mediterranean once...I felt so...Greek! :P

I said I agree mostly only the join part I didnt agree :D


Because they wont suit europe well maybe west west Turkey but Turkey has its own....thing you know I dont want them to lose their "Asian" culture that is already fading away.
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Pomak
02-10-2009, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
See, I don't mind religious, I mind religionists.
According to spell check thats not a word. Care to elaborate?
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Whatsthepoint
02-10-2009, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
According to spell check thats not a word. Care to elaborate?
I know it's not a word, ok, the difference between religious and religionist is that the latter tries to impose his or her beliefs on others. Religious people can exist happily in a liberal secular democracy, religionists can't.
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sevgi
02-10-2009, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Given the current economical climate, more countries in the EU certainly would help via increased trading and employment. Both lead to more cash injections into the system and thus lead to consumer confidence, which means banks are back in business and the circle of life...I mean money is in full motion.

Of course, this is assuming that Turkey doesn't end up being dead weight i.e provides no increase in trading or employment. Then we'd be still in a crappy economy just with more people. Which would probably be worse.

Still, fingers (and toes!) crossed.
I agree and I believe they will become dead weight...but I also believe that the EU will find a way to utilise the dead weight...i doubt they will be bothered though.

Originally Posted by Pomak
Sevgi, is the(growing) middle class in Istanbul religious or secular?
I'm no expert, but they are religious and religionists. Just look at the number of years the religionist AK party has been in government...who is voting? religious people and religionists.

Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
See, I don't mind religious, I mind religionists.

See above ^
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Whatsthepoint
02-10-2009, 02:37 PM
Lol, I'm glad my word's caught on.
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sevgi
02-10-2009, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Güven
I said I agree mostly only the join part I didnt agree :D


Because they wont suit europe well maybe west west Turkey but Turkey has its own....thing you know I dont want them to lose their "Asian" culture that is already fading away.
You cant lose culture by joining the EU. You lose culture by losing your deen, your ahlak, your grounds. we are losing anyway. I dnt blame the EU..but thats a whole diff topic.

Originally Posted by Pomak
According to spell check thats not a word. Care to elaborate?


Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I know it's not a word, ok, the difference between religious and religionist is that the latter tries to impose his or her beliefs on others. Religious people can exist happily in a liberal secular democracy, religionists can't.
Stop playing semantics.
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sevgi
02-10-2009, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Lol, I'm glad my word's caught on.
I get what you meant. I'm a historian who studies English literature...I make words up all the time.

My favourite word is 'happenings'. I so cant live without it.

Ps: I've copyrighted it!!!
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smile
02-10-2009, 06:47 PM
they don't need the loser EU
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yasin ibn Ahmad
02-11-2009, 12:36 AM
:sl:
I am a Turk.I think we should take all the good things beneficial to human kind-to Muslims also.Some people say EU is a Christian community so they will never let you in.I think if Turkey joins the EU the islamization of Europe will be quicker.
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Pomak
02-11-2009, 01:01 AM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
:sl:
I am a Turk.I think we should take all the good things beneficial to human kind-to Muslims also.Some people say EU is a Christian community so they will never let you in.I think if Turkey joins the EU the islamization of Europe will be quicker.
OOO, please define "islamization". And is it really about islamization or Turkization of Europe? (looking at what happened with the Poles when they joined as well as the *ahem* Roma people)
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sevgi
02-11-2009, 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
:sl:
I am a Turk.I think we should take all the good things beneficial to human kind-to Muslims also.Some people say EU is a Christian community so they will never let you in.I think if Turkey joins the EU the islamization of Europe will be quicker.
This reply made me laugh.

I agree with your first sentence.

Your next sentence is just funny. If Turkey were going to be of great benefit to the EU, they wouldn't deny them entry on the basis of religious majority...as for them being a 'christian' organisation...how bout no.

Your last sentence is :S What in the world are you on bro? I think Turkey should 'islamise' themselves before they get cracking on the whole of EUROPE. Turkey is a secular state...I'm just...lost with your statement.
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Pomak
02-11-2009, 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by sevgi
I think Turkey should 'islamise' themselves before they get cracking on the whole of EUROPE. Turkey is a secular state...I'm just...lost with your statement.
What do you mean by "'islamise' themselves"?
Are you talking religious observance with the people individually? Or Political thing? Or both?
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sevgi
02-11-2009, 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by Pomak
What do you mean by "'islamise' themselves"?
Are you talking religious observance with the people individually? Or Political thing? Or both?
See how I put 'islamise' in inverted commas? I did that because I was using the brothers' own terms against him. I don't know what he means by it and I certainly don't think it is a good word to use.

What I took from it is a political 'islamisation'. Turkey is not an Islamic state so...why would they want to 'islamise' Europe?
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The_Prince
02-11-2009, 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Sorry.
Plenty of reasons actually, first and foremost being that they don't culturally belong to Europe.
Second is the internal issues of Turkey, Kurds, Armenian genocide, secularists vs religionists, border with Iraq..
Third, the Turkish biorth rates are significantly higher than European ones, if let in, Turkey could become the most powerful country in the European parliament.
thats why turkey shouldnt join europe, we Muslim nations should stay with the Muslim nations and become powerful and overtake Europe, no need to become part of Europe and the European syste.
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sevgi
02-11-2009, 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
thats why turkey shouldnt join europe, we Muslim nations should stay with the Muslim nations and become powerful and overtake Europe, no need to become part of Europe and the European syste.
Ok...hold up...

Why is everyone going on about 'overtaking' Europe? Whaa?
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Pomak
02-11-2009, 03:13 AM
Originally Posted by sevgi
Ok...hold up...

Why is everyone going on about 'overtaking' Europe? Whaa?
*Just remembered there are non muslims on LI*

:X
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The_Prince
02-11-2009, 03:13 AM
Originally Posted by sevgi
Ok...hold up...

Why is everyone going on about 'overtaking' Europe? Whaa?
well thats what theyre saying, as whatsup said, if they join etc etc they will take over with population etc etc, so you know if the Turks are going to overtake Europe, why join it, just wait to overtake it. :)
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sevgi
02-11-2009, 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
thats why turkey shouldnt join europe, we Muslim nations should stay with the Muslim nations and become powerful and overtake Europe, no need to become part of Europe and the European syste.

Originally Posted by The_Prince
well thats what theyre saying, as whatsup said, if they join etc etc they will take over with population etc etc, so you know if the Turks are going to overtake Europe, why join it, just wait to overtake it. :)
Ok, now you've just killed what you originally said. First muslims were coming together and taking over Europe. Now, just because Turkey has high birth rates, you say that Turkey is going to take over Europe.

We established that population does not = power.

Turkey has no such agendas. I can't believe we are even talking about this. Urgh.


Originally Posted by Pomak
*Just remembered there are non muslims on LI*

:X
Are you implying that the mass muslim populous has a hidden missionary agenda to rise up, join forces and take over Europe? It doesn't matter if there are non muslims on LI. We have nothing to hide from them. I hope that the nonmuslims on here have enough reader discretion to not take this silly 'overtaking' business seriously.
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Pomak
02-11-2009, 03:32 AM
Are you implying that the mass muslim populous has a hidden missionary agenda to rise up, join forces and take over Europe? It doesn't matter if there are non muslims on LI. We have nothing to hide from them. I hope that the nonmuslims on here have enough reader discretion to not take this silly 'overtaking' business seriously.
I was joking.
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crayon
02-11-2009, 08:42 AM
I don't know much about this issue, but I think it would be good to have a muslim presence in the Eu, no?
Even if Turkey is secular, and even if they can't make a huge difference.. It's always good to have good relations with other countries..isn't it?
:?
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yasin ibn Ahmad
02-11-2009, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
See how I put 'islamise' in inverted commas? I did that because I was using the brothers' own terms against him. I don't know what he means by it and I certainly don't think it is a good word to use.

What I took from it is a political 'islamisation'. Turkey is not an Islamic state so...why would they want to 'islamise' Europe?
Well when I was away lot of things have been said.Sevgi, the last thing you should laugh at in the world is my sentence about islamization of Europe.Turkey has a very important number of educated and educating muslim people.If these people would gain free travel and right to settle in European countries they would do a great job for the benefit of Islam.I am talking about Risale-i Nur students.I dont know if you know about them.I tell you think twice before laughing.
The only thing makes you think that Turkey should make itself Islamized is the secular government.No one knows if it will go on like this forever.If the government were like most of the people everything would be different.I believe it will change soon.
I say 'Watch Turkey for the rise of Islam again Inshaallah' Because the fallen flag of Islam , will rise from where it fallen down.
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Suomipoika
02-11-2009, 11:17 PM
Yay, but both EU and Turkey need reforms before that can happen.
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Pomak
02-12-2009, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
Well when I was away lot of things have been said.Sevgi, the last thing you should laugh at in the world is my sentence about islamization of Europe.Turkey has a very important number of educated and educating muslim people.If these people would gain free travel and right to settle in European countries they would do a great job for the benefit of Islam.I am talking about Risale-i Nur students.I dont know if you know about them.I tell you think twice before laughing.
The only thing makes you think that Turkey should make itself Islamized is the secular government.No one knows if it will go on like this forever.If the government were like most of the people everything would be different.I believe it will change soon.
I say 'Watch Turkey for the rise of Islam again Inshaallah' Because the fallen flag of Islam , will rise from where it fallen down.
Ok, can we define "secular govt" and "rise of Islam" and again i ask you to define "Islamized". I find some people have different meaning for those terms. :)
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sevgi
02-12-2009, 04:09 AM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
Well when I was away lot of things have been said.Sevgi, the last thing you should laugh at in the world is my sentence about islamization of Europe.Turkey has a very important number of educated and educating muslim people.If these people would gain free travel and right to settle in European countries they would do a great job for the benefit of Islam.I am talking about Risale-i Nur students.I dont know if you know about them.I tell you think twice before laughing.
The only thing makes you think that Turkey should make itself Islamized is the secular government.No one knows if it will go on like this forever.If the government were like most of the people everything would be different.I believe it will change soon.
I say 'Watch Turkey for the rise of Islam again Inshaallah' Because the fallen flag of Islam , will rise from where it fallen down.
9 sene Fethullah hocanin okuluna gittim ve ordan mezun oldum. 7 yil nur evlerine gidip geldim ve bu 7 yilin 5 yilini orda yasamakla gecirdim. Ev ablaligi, belletmenlik, diyalog...hepsini yaptim.

Allah askina...yillardir Avustralyadalar ve henuz burdaki turklere bile faydali olamadilar. When do you expect them to 'islamise' Australia, let alone Europe?

Nur cemaatinin insanlari islamiyeti kisiler arasinda yayma cabasinda...politikaya asla karismazlar. Ulkeleri islamiyete cevirme gibi bir amaclari yok. Kisilerin kalplerine Allah sevgisi ve Iman nuru koymak, islami bir ulke yaratmakla ayni sey deyil.
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Pomak
02-12-2009, 04:18 AM
*Pomak opens up a Turkish dictionary and tries to translate*:exhausted
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sevgi
02-12-2009, 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by Pomak
*Pomak opens up a Turkish dictionary and tries to translate*:exhausted
I wrote some personal things about myself which I don't want revealed to the whole forum. I had to tell Brother Yasin these things so that he does not judge me of being ignorant of what he was talking about.

In the end I argued that the people he is talking about do not mix with politics and that making individuals love God and Islam is their real mission, not to islamise states.
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north_malaysian
02-12-2009, 04:51 AM
1- Nay

2- I am not a Turk, I am a Malaysian

3- Reason: Most of Turkey is in Asia, so if Turkey accepted in EU, it means that the Europeans encroached Asian continent.. countries like Russia, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan should never enter EU too...
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north_malaysian
02-12-2009, 07:27 AM
[PIE]Only if i get to eat a Turkey! [/PIE]

LOL...
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Suomipoika
02-12-2009, 10:50 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
3- Reason: Most of Turkey is in Asia, so if Turkey accepted in EU, it means that the Europeans encroached Asian continent.. countries like Russia, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan should never enter EU too...
Whats wrong with EU "encroaching" Asian continent and whats wrong with Russia and Caucasian countries joining EU? Depending which arbitrary border you look at they are (mostly) in Europe. Personally I would really love to see Russia joining EU (with all the associated reforms).

Besides it never bothered anyone that most of Denmark is in North America. :)
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Banu_Hashim
02-12-2009, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by Güven
I agree mostly with Sevgi;

but NO i dont want them to join the EU.




I love being an Asian :D
Welll... Technically Eurasian:p
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Banu_Hashim
02-12-2009, 11:41 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
[PIE]Only if i get to eat a Turkey! [/PIE]

LOL...
That's what I selected...
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Güven
02-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by Banu_Hashim
Welll... Technically Eurasian:p
Eurasian! thats such a cool word :shade:
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Whatsthepoint
02-12-2009, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by Güven
Eurasian! thats such a cool word :shade:
You're not eurasian, you're asian.
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Suomipoika
02-12-2009, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
You're not eurasian, you're asian.
Because Europe and Asia are sometimes considered as one entity, as in Eurasia, doesnt that actually make him both?
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sshussain
02-12-2009, 07:07 PM
I will recall a hadith which says that before the Day of Judgment, Constantinople (present day Istanbul) will go back to Romans (i.e Europe). I see this coming true.

Moreover all the other EU nations are industrialized, but Turkey is still based on its agricultural sector.
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Trumble
02-12-2009, 07:09 PM
Yay! Two principal reasons.

Firstly the EU is still primarily an economic organization and I think economically, in the medium to long-term anyway, Turkish membership would benefit both Turkey and the other EU states.

Secondly, on the off chance the EU does ever really get it together as a political organization Turkish membership would be hugely beneficial in achieving a balanced foreign policy and friendly relations with other Islamic countries.
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Banu_Hashim
02-12-2009, 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by sshussain
I will recall a hadith which says that before the Day of Judgment, Constantinople (present day Istanbul) will go back to Romans (i.e Europe). I see this coming true.

Moreover all the other EU nations are industrialized, but Turkey is still based on its agricultural sector.
Really? Can you provide a source for this Hadith bro? Is it in Bukhari? Because I really want to read this... Interesting... I didn't know that.
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Amadeus85
02-12-2009, 08:31 PM
I dont think that Turkey will join EU in near future. Since Turks chose islamists and Erdogan, they also chose some way of thinking which is far from being euro-friendly. In Europe, for our liberals Erdogan is unaccaptable because he wants to ban divorces and supports religious fundamentalism. For european conservatives he is not to accept because he flirts with Hamas and often he and all Turks show fierce anti european and anti western attitude.Besides, majority of the european citizens would be against joining of Turkey to EU.
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Pomak
02-12-2009, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
I dont think that Turkey will join EU in near future. Since Turks chose islamists and Erdogan, they also chose some way of thinking which is far from being euro-friendly. In Europe, for our liberals Erdogan is unaccaptable because he wants to ban divorces and supports religious fundamentalism. For european conservatives he is not to accept because he flirts with Hamas and often he and all Turks show fierce anti european and anti western attitude.Besides, majority of the european citizens would be against joining of Turkey to EU.
WTF. what have you been smoking bro?
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Pomak
02-13-2009, 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by sshussain
I will recall a hadith which says that before the Day of Judgment, Constantinople (present day Istanbul) will go back to Romans (i.e Europe). I see this coming true.

Moreover all the other EU nations are industrialized, but Turkey is still based on its agricultural sector.
Turkey's dynamic economy is a complex mix of modern industry and commerce along with a traditional agriculture sector that still accounts for more than 35% of employment. It has a strong and rapidly growing private sector, yet the state still plays a major role in basic industry, banking, transport, and communication. The largest industrial sector is textiles and clothing, which accounts for one-third of industrial employment; it faces stiff competition in international markets with the end of the global quota system. However, other sectors, notably the automotive and electronics industries, are rising in importance within Turkey's export mix. Real GNP growth has exceeded 6% in many years, but this strong expansion has been interrupted by sharp declines in output in 1994, 1999, and 2001. The economy is turning around with the implementation of economic reforms, and 2004 GDP growth reached 9%, followed by roughly 5% annual growth from 2005-07. Inflation fell to 7.7% in 2005 - a 30-year low - but climbed back to 8.5% in 2007
And btw about the hadith. There is another one, "Constantinople will go out of the fold and it will return when a group of the people chant "allahu akbar" out side the city gates"

^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr9MZ...eature=related (1st 3 minutes)
Reply

sevgi
02-13-2009, 01:10 AM
Originally Posted by aaron85
i dont think that turkey will join eu in near future. Since turks chose islamists and erdogan, they also chose some way of thinking which is far from being euro-friendly. In europe, for our liberals erdogan is unaccaptable because he wants to ban divorces and supports religious fundamentalism. For european conservatives he is not to accept because he flirts with hamas and often he and all turks show fierce anti european and anti western attitude.besides, majority of the european citizens would be against joining of turkey to eu.
I Lol'ed! Lol Lol Lol'ed!
Reply

Amadeus85
02-13-2009, 02:55 AM
Originally Posted by Pomak
WTF. what have you been smoking bro?
Nothing, I dont smoke, I back all the words that I said. Point by point.
Reply

sevgi
02-13-2009, 03:28 AM
LOL.

I wish Muezzin was here to use the facepalm.
Reply

Pomak
02-13-2009, 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by sevgi
LOL.

I wish Muezzin was here to use the facepalm.
This is beyond facepalm.
Reply

sevgi
02-13-2009, 03:46 AM
Originally Posted by Pomak
This is beyond facepalm.
Haha! Yeah, this one is like *smashheadonwall*
Reply

Pomak
02-13-2009, 04:21 AM
Originally Posted by sevgi
Haha! Yeah, this one is like *smashheadonwall*
Look at the emoticons on MV, we got one just for that. :D
Reply

sevgi
02-13-2009, 04:45 AM
Originally Posted by Pomak
Look at the emoticons on MV, we got one just for that. :D
HAHAHAHA!!

Man, we need that here!
Reply

Vito
02-13-2009, 05:16 AM


Take a pick
Reply

sevgi
02-13-2009, 05:25 AM
Originally Posted by Kai85


Take a pick
We want the last one here. But how awesome is the "Oh snap" one. I want that one.
Reply

Pomak
02-13-2009, 06:13 AM
Originally Posted by Kai85


Take a pick


I am in love. :D
Reply

Amadeus85
02-13-2009, 11:08 AM
I read some last polls about the will of Turks to join the EU and only about 30% of the Turks were saying - Yes. I would risk a thesis that at least 70% of europeans dont want Turkey in EU also.
Reply

Pomak
02-13-2009, 11:11 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
I read some last polls about the will of Turks to join the EU and only about 30% of the Turks were saying - Yes. I would risk a thesis that at least 70% of europeans dont want Turkey in EU also.
link?
Reply

north_malaysian
02-13-2009, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by Banu_Hashim
Welll... Technically Eurasian:p
In my country if an Asian married a European, their kids would be called as Eurasians...or Pan-Asians...

Most of the Muslim Eurasians in Malaysia have British and Irish ancestry..
Reply

Amadeus85
02-13-2009, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
link?
Every year such surveys are made in Turkey, in the last years the support for joining EU has dropped sighnificantly. It used to be about 60% at the begining of the XXI century, since the 2002 it started to fall. Now its about 30% and I cant give You a link to an article that I read in Newsweek :).
So it seems that neither Turks want to enter EU, nor we europeans want them among us.
Reply

Amadeus85
02-13-2009, 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
In my country if an Asian married a European, their kids would be called as Eurasians...or Pan-Asians...

Most of the Muslim Eurasians in Malaysia have British and Irish ancestry..
I think that the asian entity, pan asianism is something that doesnt exist. What have in common Taiwanese with Indians and Indians with Japanese and they with lets say Malaysians. Those are various cultures and civilizations.
Reply

sshussain
02-13-2009, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Banu_Hashim
Really? Can you provide a source for this Hadith bro? Is it in Bukhari? Because I really want to read this... Interesting... I didn't know that.
I have seen a video "The End of Times" by Dr. Shahid Masood. You can find this video on Youtube and it is really an eye opener if you understand urdu.
Reply

darbuka
02-13-2009, 04:28 PM
clear no - as a Turkish man i am asking everyone here, what do I and a Danish man have in common? Really nothing much. If a union has to be - than pls. with the ones that we have anything in common with.
Reply

yasin ibn Ahmad
02-13-2009, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
OOO, please define "islamization". And is it really about islamization or Turkization of Europe? (looking at what happened with the Poles when they joined as well as the *ahem* Roma people)
In the end I argued that the people he is talking about do not mix with politics and that making individuals love God and Islam is their real mission, not to islamise states.
I mean by "islamization" European people will get more chances to know Islam closely.I think a good deal of people are drowned in the sea of metarialism and darwinism.And people studying Risale-i Nur in Turkey has the formula for these sorrowful people.
I am not talking about forcing anybody or making use of politics or arms.What I mean is people in Europe will just have more muslim neighbours.And if this happens I am sure the number of Muslims in Europe will increase.Because,I think if a fair and unprejudiced person read the truths of Islam, he will embrace it, accept it.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-13-2009, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Because Europe and Asia are sometimes considered as one entity, as in Eurasia, doesnt that actually make him both?
Eurasian sounds like you're Asian, that was the core of my post.:-[
Reply

Pomak
02-14-2009, 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
I mean by "islamization" European people will get more chances to know Islam closely.I think a good deal of people are drowned in the sea of metarialism and darwinism.And people studying Risale-i Nur in Turkey has the formula for these sorrowful people.
I am not talking about forcing anybody or making use of politics or arms.What I mean is people in Europe will just have more muslim neighbours.And if this happens I am sure the number of Muslims in Europe will increase.Because,I think if a fair and unprejudiced person read the truths of Islam, he will embrace it, accept it.
I'll level with you, the term actually has clear political implications. The word dawa describes more accurately what you said above. Muslim(i mean Turk/North African and West Africans) migrant communities in many European cities are not looked at totally with...ahem love.

Further, secularists in Turkey can't teach Europeans, French in particular anything about Islam, nor those that have a stagnant view of what Islam is.
Reply

yasin ibn Ahmad
02-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
I'll level with you, the term actually has clear political implications. The word dawa describes more accurately what you said above. Muslim(i mean Turk/North African and West Africans) migrant communities in many European cities are not looked at totally with...ahem love.

Further, secularists in Turkey can't teach Europeans, French in particular anything about Islam, nor those that have a stagnant view of what Islam is.
I am not talking about governments politics here.The gov is secular in Turkey.Do you really think everyone in this country are in favour of secularism?They are in minority.I am talking about some groups in Turkey.Whose only aim in this life is dawa.And if EU lets Turkey in these people will have no burden to move and live in EU countries and cities for only dawa.
The immigrants from Turkey and other Muslim countries are totally different from what I am talking about.While immigrating thier aim is to have jobs or more comfortable life.
Reply

Suomipoika
02-14-2009, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by darbuka
clear no - as a Turkish man i am asking everyone here, what do I and a Danish man have in common? Really nothing much. If a union has to be - than pls. with the ones that we have anything in common with.
Well, Im only a finn, but Id imagine there are several things that I have in common with the turkish man (or indeed with anyone). Like you know, love for family and friends, enjoying good food, finding that special someone and so forth.
Reply

Pomak
02-15-2009, 01:02 AM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
I am not talking about governments politics here.The gov is secular in Turkey.Do you really think everyone in this country are in favour of secularism?They are in minority.I am talking about some groups in Turkey.Whose only aim in this life is dawa.And if EU lets Turkey in these people will have no burden to move and live in EU countries and cities for only dawa.
The immigrants from Turkey and other Muslim countries are totally different from what I am talking about.While immigrating thier aim is to have jobs or more comfortable life.
Sorry, i don't buy it, i can dig out for you the article where one of more influential scholars for AKP actually says that he supports secularism(with a few alteration....hijab ban for example) because it's the only way to guarantee freedom of religion, as in those that want to worship can and those that don't can watch dodgy Turkish dramas.

Perhaps if you were to define "secularism", we could continue. Since i am European, secularism to me means stopping a state being run by imams and shaykhs like Iran is. Because in sunni muslim countries when someone asks for secularism i have to ask, how can you separate church and state when we don't have a church?(aka central religious authority) And those opposing secularism have to be asked, do you want someone who has only religious education doing your tax returns?
Reply

yasin ibn Ahmad
02-15-2009, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by Pomak
Sorry, i don't buy it, i can dig out for you the article where one of more influential scholars for AKP actually says that he supports secularism(with a few alteration....hijab ban for example) because it's the only way to guarantee freedom of religion, as in those that want to worship can and those that don't can watch dodgy Turkish dramas.

Perhaps if you were to define "secularism", we could continue. Since i am European, secularism to me means stopping a state being run by imams and shaykhs like Iran is. Because in sunni muslim countries when someone asks for secularism i have to ask, how can you separate church and state when we don't have a church?(aka central religious authority) And those opposing secularism have to be asked, do you want someone who has only religious education doing your tax returns?
What if you got one bit of what I have said.
You are still talking about AKP.Who cares AKP.This is Islam, this is dawa I am talking about.We dont getting each other well I must say, sorry.
Reply

Pomak
02-16-2009, 01:16 AM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
What if you got one bit of what I have said.
You are still talking about AKP.Who cares AKP.This is Islam, this is dawa I am talking about.We dont getting each other well I must say, sorry.
I am talking about well known scholars....
Reply

yasin ibn Ahmad
02-16-2009, 07:04 AM
Originally Posted by Pomak
I am talking about well known scholars....
So what?
What does it have to do with AKP?
Reply

Pomak
02-16-2009, 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
So what?
What does it have to do with AKP?
mainly relevance.
Reply

Amadeus85
02-19-2009, 09:40 PM
So far the biggest supporters of joining Turkey to UE are USA. I just worry that in few years it will be the European Parliament to make the decision about accepting Turkey or not. That decision should be made in referendum by the european citizens.
Reply

bewildred
02-19-2009, 10:01 PM
I think that the country that's the most vehement against Turkey joining the EU is France. The French president asks Turkey to recognize the Armenian genocide. It's crystal clear that it's just a way to keep Turkey away knowing how sensitive this issue is to the Turkish pple.
Reply

Amadeus85
02-19-2009, 10:16 PM
Yes, meanwhile France used to be firm Turkey's friend in the history. But I think that great majority of europeans are against it, maybe except Brittons, who seem to be seperated from mainstream european issues.
Reply

Pomak
02-19-2009, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
So far the biggest supporters of joining Turkey to UE are USA. I just worry that in few years it will be the European Parliament to make the decision about accepting Turkey or not. That decision should be made in referendum by the european citizens.
I might of missed something, but which other Eu country got through that way?(part in bold)
Reply

Amadeus85
02-20-2009, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by Pomak
I might of missed something, but which other Eu country got through that way?(part in bold)
Actually Im not 100% sure how the EU agreed on letting in countries like Lithuania, Slovakia, Poland or Estonia. Whether it was by EU Parliament voting or/and people's referendum. But anyway, such thing like joining Turkey to EU is such controversial and problematic, that it wouldnt be fair if the european people couldnt decide about it in referendum.
Reply

Suomipoika
02-20-2009, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Actually Im not 100% sure how the EU agreed on letting in countries like Lithuania, Slovakia, Poland or Estonia. Whether it was by EU Parliament voting or/and people's referendum. But anyway, such thing like joining Turkey to EU is such controversial and problematic, that it wouldnt be fair if the european people couldnt decide about it in referendum.
Commission recommended and parlament voted for it.

But like everything big in EU, it was in theory voted in Ireland via referendum when they voted for the Treaty of Nice (couple of times until they got the right result). Had that failed, it would have atleast delayed the entry of new member states.

There were plenty of objections and controversial problems with adding 10 new member states at one go, but somehow we managed, I dont see why we wouldnt with Turkey.
Reply

Amadeus85
02-20-2009, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Commission recommended and parlament voted for it.

But like everything big in EU, it was in theory voted in Ireland via referendum when they voted for the Treaty of Nice (couple of times until they got the right result). Had that failed, it would have atleast delayed the entry of new member states.

There were plenty of objections and controversial problems with adding 10 new member states at one go, but somehow we managed, I dont see why we wouldnt with Turkey.
Who means "We" ? Do europeans want it? Do Turks want the enter to UE?
Reply

Suomipoika
02-20-2009, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Who means "We" ? Do europeans want it? Do Turks want the enter to UE?
The popularity of EU unfortunately has been falling in Turkey, but I dont really see that as a reason to close the door.

As for Europeans, they certainly keep voting on people that continue the slow process with Turkey.
Reply

greenshirt
04-20-2009, 05:57 AM
nay for several reasons:

1 - i want there to be an ISLAMIC UNION, and open borders between muslim countries. :) if turkey joins the EU this could be problematic to starting this lol

2 - i dont think the values of the people of turkey are always in the interest of europe and vice versa. for example many european countries are very liberal and want liberal policies to be implemented throughout the EU. this could include economic issues that may involve riba, or it could be social, moral issues such as abortion and gay marriage. if turkey joins the EU, turkey could stop the EU from implementing some of these policies. i dont find this right. also, the EU could implement some of these policies for turkey which i dont find right either. therefore it would be better if they didnt join.

just two reasons why i voted nay.
Reply

north_malaysian
04-20-2009, 06:12 AM
Countries like Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Russia, Belarus, Albania, Kosova and Bosnia should join Asian Union...:nervous:
Reply

Amadeus85
04-20-2009, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Countries like Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Russia, Belarus, Albania, Kosova and Bosnia should join Asian Union...:nervous:
I agree, except of Belarus which is definetely a part of Europe and Russia, because they would most probably didnt want to.
Anyway, an asian unity is even more illusion than an european unity, am I right?
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-20-2009, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Countries like Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Russia, Belarus, Albania, Kosova and Bosnia should join Asian Union...:nervous:
Belarus, albania, Bosnia and Kosovo are in Europe.
Reply

Al-Zaara
04-20-2009, 07:56 PM
^ Mmm. :D
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-20-2009, 10:05 PM
This is a great step towards progress and peace
Reply

Amadeus85
04-20-2009, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
This is a great step towards progress and peace
What is this great step?
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-20-2009, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
What is this great step?
I meant it would be if it happened.
Reply

Amadeus85
04-20-2009, 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
I meant it would be if it happened.
I dont agree with You, it would bring neither peace, nor progress.
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-20-2009, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
I dont agree with You, it would bring neither peace, nor progress.
How could it not lead to a better tomorow?
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-20-2009, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
How could it not lead to a better tomorow?
How could it?
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-20-2009, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
How could it?
Hmm people working and talking together.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-20-2009, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Hmm people working and talking together.
Doesn't even work between European nations.
Turkey can join all the good stuff, Erasmus for instance.
Reply

Amadeus85
04-20-2009, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
How could it not lead to a better tomorow?
Dirty Jerzy, sometimes its worth to take off the pink glasses from time to time .:bump1:
Reply

Amadeus85
04-20-2009, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Hmm people working and talking together.
They can do it by skype, no need for accession.
Reply

north_malaysian
04-21-2009, 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Anyway, an asian unity is even more illusion than an european unity, am I right?
yeah...
Reply

north_malaysian
04-21-2009, 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Belarus, albania, Bosnia and Kosovo are in Europe.
well, we want to make Asia... bigger...

imagine if Turkey join EU... Europe would encroach asian land in Anatolia...

Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco can join Asian Union too... LOL
Reply

Pomak
04-21-2009, 07:39 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Belarus, albania, Bosnia and Kosovo are in Europe.
Technically so is Turkey.

Btw ATHEISTofPEACE have you read 1984?
Reply

burdenofbeing
04-21-2009, 09:17 AM
being together in the EU really doesn't raise the probability of dialogue between the cultures.

even in Turkey, where atheist and muslim people are literally neighbours, there is a pronounced xenophobia. unless certain collective groups want this coexistence to happen, I doubt it that it will.
Reply

Amadeus85
04-21-2009, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
being together in the EU really doesn't raise the probability of dialogue between the cultures.

even in Turkey, where atheist and muslim people are literally neighbours, there is a pronounced xenophobia. unless certain collective groups want this coexistence to happen, I doubt it that it will.
Hello BurdenofBeing, You are Turk living in Turkey, so u can say what are the opinion of the turkish citizens of the Eu accesion?
Reply

burdenofbeing
04-21-2009, 05:21 PM
It's a mixture. Most of the people think that we'll never be welcome in there even if we get in there.

The people against it are so because: "we get the shaft anytime we are in a group. Like NATO" "we are not christians" "we'll lose our best human resources"

The people for it are so because: "our economy will flourish for various reasons" "no more visas. finally!" "we'll at least belong to one group that matters."

There is also a third group, in which many intellectuals belong. They say: "following the EU regulations is good for Turkey no matter what, but the decision to join the EU will be on our part at the end. "

the part that doesn't want to join EU is actually the part EU countries don't want most. the eastern turkey.
Reply

Zico
05-23-2009, 03:34 PM
Nice poll :D

To be honest here, I voted yay. The reason for that is that if Turkey and it's people want to prosper as a country, the best thing to do is ally yourself with Europe.
Not to exaggerate, as an Arab I can honestly say that the Arabs nowadays are being sucked into a devilish act of "Tribalism", heck I admit I too am sucked into it form time to time, and I'm disgusted by it.
Reply

Tony
05-23-2009, 04:18 PM
yes get em in. my wifes Turkish, kids half Turkish, firstly lets get an islamic country into eu, secondly it means that Turkish human rights will be greatly improved, leading to kids being out of danger, people with disabilities being better provided for. I know Turkish govnment will be expected to provide air pads for planes and missile strikes etc, but I think that Turkey and Turkish people are strong and noble. I see on Turkish TV that Turkey are not scared to voice their opinion, this will probably ultimatley keep them out, I say eu will be greatly advanced re islam if they join. Back in the day, the Ottamans were fierce and took countries as they wished, they were islamic in rule but allowed people to be free and worship as they pleased, they never forced islam. Yes to Turkey
Reply

Argamemnon
05-23-2009, 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by yasin ibn Ahmad
:sl:
I am a Turk.I think we should take all the good things beneficial to human kind-to Muslims also.Some people say EU is a Christian community so they will never let you in.I think if Turkey joins the EU the islamization of Europe will be quicker.
What are you talking about? Turkey should Islamize their own population first. There is even a gay pride parade in Istanbul each year. Do you even know your own country?
Reply

Argamemnon
05-23-2009, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
You're not eurasian, you're asian.
Turkey and Russia are Eurasian. I'd rather be 100% Asian, but what can you do..
Reply

Whatsthepoint
08-25-2009, 10:53 AM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Turkey and Russia are Eurasian. I'd rather be 100% Asian, but what can you do..
Give the european chunk of land to Greece.
Reply

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