Why we pray

[rpwelton]

I was having a discussion with a Christian friend of mine, and after talking with him about why Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah, the Oneness of Allah, and the miracles of the Qur'an, he asked me about our prayer. He was wondering why we Muslims have to pray to Allah a certain way and 5 times a day.

I responded to him thusly:

1) We believe in Allah and that Muhammad is His Messenger, so we follow the Commandments God sets upon us.
2) Prayer is a way to connect with God and allows ourselves constant opportunities to be reminded of Allah.

He asked "why a person who was so faithful and who remembered God so much still had to pray. Why couldn't that person just sincerely devote themselves to God without the 'ritual' of the prayer?"

Well, this is where I'm kind of stuck. Obviously Christianity takes the approach that you don't need "rituals" to be close to God. I tried explaining how we serve God by following his commandments.

Is there any other way to explain this to him? I think he's trying to reconcile the vast differences that Christians and Muslims have about physically serving God, and all of our "rituals" seem strange to him.

Thanks!

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

Prayer is a form of action; one sins with action, and he then must deplete it with action in a way that is acceptable to Allah, and one cannot prove his belief in a faith unless he puts it into practice, right? During prayer every part of us submits to Allah and is engaging in faith, so that it is not just expressed mentally and emotionally, but its engaged physically too.

Prayer is also part of the Muslim identity. It distinguishes our faith from other faiths and it is a part of what defines Islam in general: submission. It unifies the ummah and everyone feels the same outwardly, praying to one God, at one focal point (the ka'bah).

Lastly, one who places any acheivements in his heart which delays or replaces physical worship, has just made room for arrogance. Prayer is a form of humility so that we are reminded that we are small to the Lord above us and that it is necessary to always continue praying and submitting. We are humans, and we forget VERY easily. There is always a reason to worship Allah, even if one is sinless! 'Aisha (ra) asked the prophet (pbuh) why does he pray all night if he is sinless, and he(pbuh) answered her "Shall I not then be a grateful slave?"

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

[kwolney01]

I agree, this is a tough question to answer.

Another thing to tell him would be that we pray 5 times a day to remember Allah. This is one of the most important functions of prayer. In order to stay religious and be God conscious we must pray 5 times a day. Tell him about the different times we pray. Early in the morning we pray to start our day off remembering Allah, mid-day we stop everything and do it again...and so on.

I hope this helps brother.

And I wish you the best.

Jazak Allah Khair

[Dawud_uk]

:sl:

this is best explained by showing him the difference between imaan and faith.

a christian believes faith is in the heart, it is not necessary to show it in actions.

but the arabic word imaan has a much greater meaning, the salaf would say imaan what was in the heart, confirmed on the tongue and shown through actions.

so if someone says they believe in something, but do something else, their belief wasnt very strong or perhaps even absent entirely.

so we show our submission to Allah through our speech, calling to Allah, and through our actions, doing the salaah and other action based ibadah.

ultimately though we pray as Allah has instructed us to pray this way, ask your friend if you could show them Allah's message is true then wouldnt they too submit to his commands?

show him the Quran is true, the bible false and everything else follows from there.

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[rpwelton]

Thanks for the responses.

I'm hoping to meet with him again soon. I feel each time we meet our discussion progresses, as I have already covered with him the many miracles of the Qur'an, the seerah of the Prophet and proof of him being the Messenger of Allah. At the end of our last discussion we started to talk a bit about Christianity, and I hope to continue on that path, eventually getting into the illogical nature of the Christian doctrine and why Islam makes so much sense in comparison.

Insha Allah, hopefully at least my friend will get a good understanding of Islam. I kind of feel that he may well believe in Islam, but perhaps he sees the "rituals" as getting in the way of truly accepting it. Only Allah can guide him, but I pray that Allah will give me the strength and wisdom to be able to present Islam in a clear and true manner.

If anyone has some good dawah advice, I am surely in need of it, as this is my first real time conveying the message of Islam.

Jazakallakhairn.

[alcurad]

[PIE]just don't over do it[/PIE]

[rpwelton]

Just a quick update and an appeal for some more advice.

We met again yesterday for lunch and had an interesting conversation. This time we got into the issue of salvation and the concept of being judged based on deeds, or being "redeemed" through an intermediary like Jesus.

His main concern was that good deeds could not possibly purify us of our sin nature, and that if one looks at it that way, one would do the "bare minimum" of good deeds to ensure salvation. I explained that first of all, we never know how Allah will judge us and whether or not a small thing we do yields a big reward, or vice versa; we stay away from arrogant thoughts by not focusing on "how many" good deeds versus bad deeds we do. Secondly, we feel that there is justice in God judging us based upon how we had followed his commandments, versus simply accepting an automatic "reconciliation" through Jesus.

The second issue at the tail end of our discussion was original sin. I know that this is one of the main points of contention between Islam and Christianity, but the way he was explaining it got me very confused, because he was under the impression that as Muslims, we believe in original sin.

Islamic take on original sin: each person is born without sin, but we make the choice to sin. We are not held accountable for Adam's sin.

Christian take on original sin: Adam's eating of the apple causes mankind to sin. Thus, it is because of Adam that we are capable of sinning. So before we were perfect beings, and then Adam supposedly ruined it all by sinning, creating a domino effect.

Now, that got me really confused because I had always heard the Christian point of view as being God is punishing man for Adam's sin, not that Adam caused all of his children to have a fallible nature after eating the apple.

Please advise on how to better understand and counter these arguments, as well as where I may have gone wrong in my thinking.

Thanks!

[AntiKarateKid]

I was having a discussion with a Christian friend of mine, and after talking with him about why Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah, the Oneness of Allah, and the miracles of the Qur'an, he asked me about our prayer. He was wondering why we Muslims have to pray to Allah a certain way and 5 times a day.

I responded to him thusly:

1) We believe in Allah and that Muhammad is His Messenger, so we follow the Commandments God sets upon us.
2) Prayer is a way to connect with God and allows ourselves constant opportunities to be reminded of Allah.

He asked "why a person who was so faithful and who remembered God so much still had to pray. Why couldn't that person just sincerely devote themselves to God without the 'ritual' of the prayer?"

Well, this is where I'm kind of stuck. Obviously Christianity takes the approach that you don't need "rituals" to be close to God. I tried explaining how we serve God by following his commandments.

Is there any other way to explain this to him? I think he's trying to reconcile the vast differences that Christians and Muslims have about physically serving God, and all of our "rituals" seem strange to him.

Thanks!

Because who is to decide what that act of devotion is? Is it remembering God only when you eat? Praying only after school or when you feel like it? Quickly saying something before you go to sleep? Giving God a thumbs up when you feel happy?

We worship Allah so it makes sense that he would give us a perfect way of expressing our devotion, timely prayers which eliminate ambiguity, bring the community together, and help you organize your time around Allah and not the other way around.

[mattityahu]

:sl:

a christian believes faith is in the heart, it is not necessary to show it in actions.

Just to comment, this isn't quite the biblical usage of the word 'faith'. For example, the word 'faith' doesn't actually exist in the Hebrew language, and the equivalent concept is a verb - which roughly means "to entrust your lifestyle to God having been persuaded in Him". Similarly the Greek word "pistis" in the New Testament has the same meaning.

For example, in the book of James "faith without deeds is dead." Christian faith isn't just accepting Christ into your heart, but being persuaded that He is the Truth, and repenting ("turning back"): rejecting your former lifestyle to follow Him.

[Chuck]

A brother wrote this on another forum:

Prayer is not a ritual, but a manifestation of gratitude to the Almighty, food for the spirit, and means to seek help. It is the source of life in the Quran. Further, not only do you need to be conscious of prayer, you need to be especially conscious of your zakaat as well. If you had not paid it, and you can afford to, then pay it. Both of these rituals have nothing to do with being of the West or East. They are important for everybody.

http://uiforum.uaeforum.org/showpost...57&postcount=2

.... It isn't about 'doing' the minimum to be an acceptable Muslim, it is doing whatever you do out of congition of the heart. Rituals do not save a person. It is proper attitude which saves a person, so whatever you do, come to God with a sound heart. People will attain the highest ranks on Paradise on the depths of the sincerity which lies in their hearts. It is this depth that gives any act meaning. This is why the Prophet (S) said that even a mistard-seed spent in the way of God can save a person from the hell-fire.

Further, life is always about struggling. One should never fear the challenges of life and one must try and be optimistic at all times. People deny doing something positive because they project the illusion that they may fall from the path eventually. They believe that they will not be able to live up the standards they have just set. Who cares about the future, and live in the moment. Further, even when a person makes a mistake, one must not use it as a basis to deny self-worth. Sin, in Islam, does not stem from the idea that man is lowly and evil and nature is part of his very being. Man is the khaleepha of God on earth per the Quran, and God has Noble and High aspirations for him. Man has the greatest potentials to be something relevant in this world, and sin is an act that is an attack on the honor and dignity of man. The gist of what I see is that you have issues of self-worth and that is why you fall into 'despair' and despair, per the Quran, is a product of not understanding the mercy of God. Your whole attitude with respect to Islam needs to be defined out of recongition of the Mercy and Lordship of God, otherwise called the Rububiyya, of the Quran. You need a psychological shift in perception and part of that comes with pondering over the Quran.

..... No, it does not mean such a thing. You need to truly understand what prayer is about and what the meaning of it is, including what is recited and the positions being done, and the questions you are asking essentially become meaningless. Your 'fear' is not defined by proper religious perspective. Prayer is suppose to be a maniferstation of the belief in the All-Merciful Lord, whose Hand has touched and continues to touch your life. Worship is an expression of gratitude, and fear stems from it. Fear is not the primary motivating factor of prayer and God Almighty does not need anybody's prayer. The gist of this is you should feel a sense of shame in not praying, because prayer is the primary acknowledgement of being grateful to Allah for his bounties. All of this 'fiqh' and 'opinion' about prayer from the various schools of thought should have no bearing on this ultimate reality. What people tell you regarding 'salvation' should have no bearing on this ultimate reality. God is what matters and you owe God, and further, prayer is a means of even more reward. The point is, one must be so focused on God that when it comes to this issue, everybody else's opinion becomes irrelevant. Be grateful that your still alive and be grateful for God's bounties, including the fact that he has given you parents, even though they have not yet believed, who take care of you and want the best for you. Continue to pray for them as well and wish them always the best.

.... This is not Islam. The rituals of Islam are actually very easy, but it is the human being that makes it difficult. Allah calls Islam the religion without any crookedness, and further, what it prescribes are not rituals, but actions that are full of meaning. What you have garnered about rituals are precisely because you view them through the man-made accretions that people project as Islam, which are not Islam. If a person wants to truly understand Islam, the first priority is to grab-hold of the Quran and use that to judge any and everything. One must ponder over it and try to understand the meaning for one's own self.

http://uiforum.uaeforum.org/showpost...8&postcount=13

The Quran warns against those who take the 'legal sense' of the term as a basis for their salvation and gives the example of the Bani Israel as testimony. Nobody was more 'legalistic' then they, but their legalism did not enjoin them to adopt the whole truth and thus earned man of the them the title, in Surah Bayyinah, the worst of creatures. At the same time, the Quran does not ignore that deeds are part and parcel of the recognition of tawheed in the heart. It is just not possible that a human being can ignore practice if he understands God Almighty and the rights owed to him for what He has done. Worship is the practical manifestation of that feeling that permeates the heart of the individual. Ultimately, there is no love without obedience, and it is why the poet-philosopher has always joined sacrifice with love. Ibraheem (AS) is our exemplar and it is through his obedience to the commands of God, that he attained such heights that he became the imam of mankind.

The Quran warns those that continually ignore practice, that God Almighty may ultimately take away their ability to recognize the truth as well, just like the rejectors. By ignoring to live by truth, one is in fact, cheapening it. It is only a matter of justice that one's ability to recognize truth becomes dull.

http://uiforum.uaeforum.org/showpost...0&postcount=19

[malayloveislam]

Salam,

I used to ask this question before I revert back to Islam. Now, I pray because it soothes my mind, clearing it from the worldly mess. It also taught me the value of precious time. Alhamdulillah, now I do my works quickly without any proscratination, and I even handed in my assignments to my lecturers before the dateline because of Solah. Solah is also good in teaching us about sincerity and integrity. We do not dare to be lazy when work because we always feel that He monitors us when we try to cheat. I also do not feel influenced by worldly matters like exceeding entertainment that ruins the quality times or following my friends watching pornography which is a waste of time and lowering the human-being to the animal stage. Of course I pray because I believe in G-d, believing His promises and obeying the 5 pillars of Islam. It is important for a Muslim, and differentiate us from the non-Muslim.

[Clover]

but the arabic word imaan has a much greater meaning, the salaf would say imaan what was in the heart, confirmed on the tongue and shown through actions.

so if someone says they believe in something, but do something else, their belief wasnt very strong or perhaps even absent entirely.

Wise Words. I approve :statisfie

[love_quran]

i think maybe let them bring you questions and avoid contention altogether ..if someone argued Islam to me i wouldnt be as interested as i am now :-)