Austria: Anti-Muslim graffiti at Holocaust memorial

[Pomak]

The latest instance of right-wing extremism in Austria was the recent defacement of the outer wall of the former Nazi concentration and death camp at Mauthausen, Upper Austria.

The words, "The progeny of Muslims are for us what the Jews were to our fathers. Be on your guard. A third world war – an eighth crusade," were spray-painted in 70-centimetre-high letters on the outer wall at the memorial’s entrance. The vandalism was discovered last Friday morning.


In response, Mauthausen Committee Austria Chairman Willi Mernyi called the defacement "a radical-right provocation" and said it constituted "a wholly new dimension of right-wing extremism." He added the choice of words showed the perpetrators were familiar with Nazi hate language.


The Austrian Islamic Denomination appealed to politicians and to civil society to take "the frightening signal" seriously and to undertake measures to promote more public consciousness of the situation in Austrian society.


The organisation added the incident was closely linked to anti-Semitism and hatred of Muslims.

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[The_Prince]

what i find funny is these guys who did this are a bunch of sissy boys, theyre all talk and cheap acts of vandalism, nothing real, they could never have a real one to one fight let alone an all out war!

[Al-Zaara]

What a great disrespect and unfortunate hate this is. To the people who had to suffer it and to those who still are followed by it, this is disgusting really. Now it's the Muslims turn? It's anybody's turn except for them, nothing new.

In Germany it has for a long been similiar threats towards the Turks. Reminds me of senior artist Udo Lindenberg's song, "Nein sie brauchen keinen Führer" (No they don't need a leader (Hitler). The lyrics go "(...)früher waren's die Juden und heute sind die Türken dran" (before it were the Jews and today it's the Turks turn).

[MO783]

sorry for beinh think but what does it mean ?

:sl:

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[Al-Zaara]

Are you asking me? The above text in German? I did give translations.

[Suomipoika]

What a great disrespect and unfortunate hate this is. To the people who had to suffer it and to those who still are followed by it, this is disgusting really. Now it's the Muslims turn? It's anybody's turn except for them, nothing new.

In Germany it has for a long been similiar threats towards the Turks. Reminds me of senior artist Udo Lindenberg's song, "Nein sie brauchen keinen Führer" (No they don't need a leader (Hitler). The lyrics go "(...)früher waren's die Juden und heute sind die Türken dran" (before it were the Jews and today it's the Turks turn).

In Germany there are also hate gangs made up by Turkish or Arab youth who attack almost exclusively ethnic germans. Here is an article (unfortunately in finnish for other forum members) from Aamulehti.

http://www.aamulehti.fi/uutiset/ulko...ypaikka/131030

As disgusting as the racism is in the original article, the problem goes both ways really. Ive said it before, Ive never encountered as much hate and racism without actually looking for it as on this forum towards non-muslims. For some reason we never see people speaking against the stereotypia of evil fornicating westeners. Why is that? Perhaps in some groups its the turn of muslims, but I genuinely feel that its also the turn of non-muslim among other groups.

[Al-Zaara]

In Germany there are also hate gangs made up by Turkish or Arab youth who attack almost exclusively ethnic germans. Here is an article (unfortunately in finnish for other forum members) from Aamulehti.

http://www.aamulehti.fi/uutiset/ulko...ypaikka/131030

As disgusting as the racism is in the original article, the problem goes both ways really. Ive said it before, Ive never encountered as much hate and racism without actually looking for it as on this forum towards non-muslims. For some reason we never see people speaking against the stereotypia of evil fornicating westeners. Why is that? Perhaps in some groups its the turn of muslims, but I genuinely feel that its also the turn of non-muslim among other groups.

I am glad you mentioned it too, I hope many will read it and open their minds (who speak Finnish) or at least go and read similiar. It wouldn't be the first time! I mean, seeing the racism how an foreigner comes here to Finland and then goes all hateful towards ethnic Finns is for me disgusting and pathetic.

But perhaps you could show some more understanding of my reason to choose to talk about the Turks, instead of taking me right in to the vibes of racism and hate you feel this forum radiates?
I believe you are familiar with how someone when choosing an example goes to the step closest to one's personal experiences. I am you see, a lil bit Turkish ethnically and Muslim by faith. As the thread was about how these strayed humans in Germany, preferably seeing themselves as something like "true Germans" (my own wording) and non-Muslim, who seek to get the people of Islam away from the soil of the Earth, I chose at first to walk forward from the same viewpoint as the original thread and then go a step further, by saying it isn't about religion only? And then you could have shown that example too, by then only expanding the happenings, without going on about how racists we are? Or maybe make a new thread? I really would have liked that too, honestly.

Suompoika, you seem very unexperienced in our eyes if this is the forum that has shown most racism in your opinion... I don't beg to disagree, I just do it. I believe if you'd really care about our thinking and way of seeing other people, you'd take a less aggressive starting point, because obviously you feel we are aggressive and ignorant, I would think you wouldn't go "fighting fire with fire" so to speak.

Last but not least, this is me voicing my opinion (and being off-topic, but I want you to read this or continue this through Private Messaging) and wishes of in the future being able to discuss and post posts in threads with you , without making you feel I'm suffocating freedom or fairness or being, what i really am not, racist and hateful.

Regards

[Suomipoika]

I am glad you mentioned it too, I hope many will read it and open their minds (who speak Finnish) or at least go and read similiar. It wouldn't be the first time! I mean, seeing the racism how an foreigner comes here to Finland and then goes all hateful towards ethnic Finns is for me disgusting and pathetic.

But perhaps you could show some more understanding of my reason to choose to talk about the Turks, instead of taking me right in to the vibes of racism and hate you feel this forum radiates?
I believe you are familiar with how someone when choosing an example goes to the step closest to one's personal experiences. I am you see, a lil bit Turkish ethnically and Muslim by faith. As the thread was about how these strayed humans in Germany, preferably seeing themselves as something like "true Germans" (my own wording) and non-Muslim, who seek to get the people of Islam away from the soil of the Earth, I chose at first to walk forward from the same viewpoint as the original thread and then go a step further, by saying it isn't about religion only? And then you could have shown that example too, by then only expanding the happenings, without going on about how racists we are? Or maybe make a new thread? I really would have liked that too, honestly.

Suompoika, you seem very unexperienced in our eyes if this is the forum that has shown most racism in your opinion... I don't beg to disagree, I just do it. I believe if you'd really care about our thinking and way of seeing other people, you'd take a less aggressive starting point, because obviously you feel we are aggressive and ignorant, I would think you wouldn't go "fighting fire with fire" so to speak.

Last but not least, this is me voicing my opinion (and being off-topic, but I want you to read this or continue this through Private Messaging) and wishes of in the future being able to discuss and post posts in threads with you , without making you feel I'm suffocating freedom or fairness or being, what i really am not, racist and hateful.

Regards

Certainly thought provoking.

Where am I going to face racism in my daily routines? Ethnic finn in a country with less than 5% foreign population, most of which are other nordic people or from the vicinity of Finland. In the subject of racism or hate directed at me, Im certainly very unexperienced and sheltered, Im not even going to contest that. We (in Finland) always speak about the racism towards minorities and how wrong it is but always ignore the other direction thus I didnt even really realise that it was possibe someone could actually show hostility towards me because of what I am, the thought simply didnt cross my mind, until I started reading forums like this. I find it bit sad that I find it out on my quest to cure my curiosity about Islam and muslims on Islamic Forum. What can I say, overtime it has taken its toll.

This isnt really the first time I talk about the subject of racism or hate from muslims towards non-muslims, Ive skirted around the subject, Ive tried to politely explain my views as to why some non-muslims even after years of being on this forum end up insulting muslims etc. I feel that the hate and racism from some self proclaimed muslims towards non-muslims is part of the reasons why muslims are becoming "the group whose turn it is now". As you said, we go to the step closest to us to explain it and thats where I went.

[Al-Zaara]

I get you definitely! I am happy you took the step closest to you, just hoped you'd understand I did so aswell.

I am slightly unfamiliar what you have posted or reacted to, I rarely bother to really post on LI these past months. I can't say it's sad that you got in touch with racism here and now and that you're reacting to it this strongly, because I'd like to take an brief utlitaristic viewpoint on this: I believe seeing the racism will do you more good than being forever sheltered of it, best online, 'cause doing it online is like a practice for future encounters in real life. Better now than later, better here than in your job.

Regarding the anti-Muslim graffiti it made me think... I just wondered how many immediately think of handicapped people when mentioning the Holocaust? Over 200,000 were killed the statistics say... A Jew was kinda specific (although there are difficulties with its definition aswell) and same goes for Muslim. When they see a handicapped person and a Jew, they'd rather choose the Jew? I don't know what I am asking, just pondering... Should go sleeping and stop reading about ethics and the whole subject 'outlook on life'. Goodnight.

[Pomak]

foreigner comes here to Finland

Talking generally about europe, Europeans have a habit to call people who are born in Europe but of non European decent as "foreigners".

And Suomipoika, you can't be racist toward a religion.

This isnt really the first time I talk about the subject of racism or hate from muslims towards non-muslims, Ive skirted around the subject, Ive tried to politely explain my views as to why some non-muslims even after years of being on this forum end up insulting muslims etc. I feel that the hate and racism from some self proclaimed muslims towards non-muslims is part of the reasons why muslims are becoming "the group whose turn it is now". As you said, we go to the step closest to us to explain it and thats where I went.

No excuse. Frankly i would suggest that you should go live in a country as a minority and it would give you another perspective. I've lived in Finland(Tampere) before and from what i remember it wasn't as bad as some other European countries are. From what ive seen and read, the problem arrises from 2nd generation migrants(who by definition are "locals") because they get racism from skin heads but yet they are actually born usually in the country where their parents migrated to.

There is lots of study material available (particularly on what not to do in the UK model) if your honestly interested.

[Amadeus85]

I doubt if the neo nazi groups are some serious threat to immigrants in Europe. From what I know, in my country, the number of neo nazis if very low. To say it short, they would probably all found enough space in my house. Also from what I have noticed these people are often youths with problems in home or school. Their energy should be used in better way, for example in taking care of the elderdly people, the orphans or the ill in hospitals. Instead of that, they commit criminal and horrible attacks on people with other skin colour. Ok, the immigrants commit relatively large numbers of crimes in Europe, but we have police and army to protect from them.

[Pomak]

I doubt if the neo nazi groups are some serious threat to immigrants in Europe. From what I know, in my country, the number of neo nazis if very low. To say it short, they would probably all found enough space in my house. Also from what I have noticed these people are often youths with problems in home or school. Their energy should be used in better way, for example in taking care of the elderdly people, the orphans or the ill in hospitals. Instead of that, they commit criminal and horrible attacks on people with other skin colour. Ok, the immigrants commit relatively large numbers of crimes in Europe, but we have police and army to protect from them.

Voting patterns suggest that they are 10-20% of the total population.

[Suomipoika]

And Suomipoika, you can't be racist toward a religion.

The discussion about immigration has recently exploded in Finland, we hardly had any before, and as a result apparently you can. Atleast in here.

No excuse. Frankly i would suggest that you should go live in a country as a minority and it would give you another perspective. I've lived in Finland(Tampere) before and from what i remember it wasn't as bad as some other European countries are. From what ive seen and read, the problem arrises from 2nd generation migrants(who by definition are "locals") because they get racism from skin heads but yet they are actually born usually in the country where their parents migrated to.

There is lots of study material available (particularly on what not to do in the UK model) if your honestly interested.

Its not really meant to be an excuse, but Im honestly curious, why do you think it doesnt work as one? I felt like showing the otherside of the coin, its probably petty, but so far it always seems to be the fault of the "westener" regardless of the thread in here. And overall I feel underlining only racism and hate from the "indigenous" population will work as a snowball effect which will among other things manifest in popularity for the far right parties.

[Pomak]

The discussion about immigration has recently exploded in Finland, we hardly had any before, and as a result apparently you can. Atleast in here.

IMO, it doesn't help if you conflate racist attitudes and general ideology/religious supremacist ideas.

Its not really meant to be an excuse, but Im honestly curious, why do you think it doesnt work as one? I felt like showing the otherside of the coin, its probably petty, but so far it always seems to be the fault of the "westener" regardless of the thread in here. And overall I feel underlining only racism and hate from the "indigenous" population will work as a snowball effect which will among other things manifest in popularity for the far right parties.

The problem is that there is this negative identity that seeks to identify the self in a rejection of the "other". For example a "Westerner(In the European context) can not be a muslim or something "western" can't be Islamic. And something muslim/Islamic can't be Western. Now if we accept that there will always be these people(they've been around for about 1000 years). Those that don't necessarily agree with this negative identity(from both sides) really need to sit down and think about what they are going to do.

And i agree with the snowball comment, except it works both ways. and IMO the best way to stop any snowballing is to go out and have some sort of personal relationships between communities.

[Amadeus85]

Since I can understand that some numbers of immigrants from Asia and Africa were needed in Europe as labor force, I believe that the massive wave of the immigration, caused only bad things. In result, neither we europeans feel good here, nor they. Fortunately these times are gone and more and more european states drasticly decrease the immigration. Multiculturalism brings troubles and countries without large ethnic minorities are much safer and calmer.

[Pomak]

Multiculturalism brings troubles and countries without large ethnic minorities are much safer and calmer.

Funny because Australia has a bigger immigrant population than any European country and it doesn't have a law and order issue, generally. I wonder why that is? :skeleton:

[Amadeus85]

Funny because Australia has a bigger immigrant population than any European country and it doesn't have a law and order issue, generally. I wonder why that is? :skeleton:

I made mistake in that sentence, there should be - countries with small minorities are much safer and calmer.

[Pomak]

I made mistake in that sentence, there should be - countries with small minorities are much safer and calmer.

Yeah i know, but my point still remains