/* */

PDA

View Full Version : Will Israel be brought to book?



Uthman
03-23-2009, 06:40 PM
Comment by Seumas Milne:

The evidence of war crimes in Gaza is a challenge to universal justice: will western-backed perpetrators ever stand trial?


Evidence of the scale of Israel's war crimes in its January onslaught on Gaza is becoming unanswerable. Clancy Chassay's three films investigating allegations against Israeli forces in the Gaza strip, released by the Guardian today, include important new accounts of the flagrant breaches of the laws of war that marked the three-week campaign – now estimated to have left at least 1,400 Palestinians, mostly civilians, and 13 Israelis dead.

The films provide compelling testimony of Israel's use of Palestinian teenagers as human shields; the targeting of hospitals, clinics and medical workers, including with phosphorus bombs; and attacks on civilians, including women and children – sometimes waving white flags – from hunter-killer drones whose targeting systems are so powerful they can identify the colour of a person's clothes.

Naturally, the Israeli occupation forces' spokesperson insists to Chassay that they make every effort to avoid killing civilians and denies using human shields or targeting medical workers – while at the same time explaining that medics in war zones "take the risk upon themselves". By banning journalists from entering Gaza during its punitive devastation of the strip, the Israeli government avoided independent investigations of the stream of war crimes accusations while the attack was going on.

But now journalists and human rights organisations are back inside, doing the painstaking work, the question is whether Israel's government and military commanders will be held to account for what they unleashed on the Palestinians of Gaza – or whether, like their US and British sponsors in Iraq and Afghanistan, they can carry out war crimes with impunity.

It's not as if Clancy's reports are unique or uncorroborated by other evidence. Last week, the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz reported that a group of Israelis soldiers had admitted intentionally shooting dead an unarmed Palestinian mother and her two children, as well as an elderly Palestinian woman, in Gaza in January. As one explained: "The lives of Palestinians, let's say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers. So as far as they are concerned they can justify it that way".

They also tally with testimony of other Israeli soldiers from the Givati Shaked battalion, which operated in the Gaza city suburb of Zeitoun, that they were told to "fire on anything that moves". The result was that one family, the Samunis, reported losing 29 members after soldiers forced them into a building that subsequently came under fire – seven bleeding to death while denied medical care for nearly three days. The Helw and Abu Zohar families said they saw members shot while emerging from their homes carrying white flags. "There was definitely a message being sent", one soldier who took part in the destruction of Zeitoun told the Times.

Or take the case of Majdi Abed Rabbo – a Palestinian linked to Fatah and no friend of Hamas – who described to the Independent how he was repeatedly used as a human shield by Israeli soldiers confronting armed Hamas fighters in a burned-out building in Jabalya in the Gaza strip. The fact of Israeli forces' use of human shields is hard to gainsay, not least since there are unambiguous photographs of several cases from the West Bank in 2007, as shown in Chassay's film.

Last week Human Rights Watch wrote to European Union foreign ministers calling for an international inquiry into war crimes in Gaza. In the case of Israel, the organisation cited the siege of Gaza as a form of collective punishment; the use of artillery and white phosphorus in densely populated civilian areas, including schools; the shooting of civilians holding white flags; attacks on civilian targets; and "wanton destruction of civilian property".

Israel and others also accuse Hamas of war crimes. But while both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have echoed that charge, particularly in relation to the indiscriminate rocketing of towns such as Sderot, an exhaustive investigation by Human Rights Watch has found no evidence, for example, of Hamas using human shields in the clearly defined legal sense of coercion to protect fighters in combat. And as Richard Falk, the UN Special Rapporteur on Palestinian Human Rights, argued recently, any attempt to view the two sides as "equally responsible" is an absurdity: one is a lightly-armed militia, effectively operating underground in occupied territory – the other the most powerful army in the region, able to pinpoint and pulverise targets with some of the most sophisticated weaponry in the world.

There is of course no chance that the UN security council will authorise the kind of International Criminal Court war crimes indictment now faced by Sudan's leaders over Darfur. Any such move would certainly be vetoed by the US and its allies. And Israel's own courts have had no trouble in the past batting away serious legal challenges to its army's atrocities in the occupied territories. But the use of universal jurisdiction in countries such as Spain or even Britain is making Israeli commanders increasingly jumpy about travelling abroad.

With such powerful evidence of violations of the rules of war now emerging from the rubble of Gaza, the test must be this: is the developing system of international accountability for war crimes only going to apply to the west's enemies – or can the western powers and their closest allies also be brought to book?

Source

Seumas Milne is a Guardian columnist and associate editor. He was the Guardian's comment editor from 2001-7 after working for the paper as a general reporter and labour editor. He has reported for the Guardian from the Middle East, eastern Europe, Russia, south Asia and Latin America. He previously worked for the Economist and is the author of The Enemy Within and co-author of Beyond the Casino Economy.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Uthman
03-25-2009, 05:19 PM
Comment by Tessa Gregory and Phil Shiner:

End this culture of Israeli impunity


In the face of Palestinian deaths in Gaza, the UK government must be held to its commitments under international law.

It is difficult to imagine how anyone watching Clancy Chassay's three short films on Israel's devastating attack on Gaza ("Operation Cast Lead") could deny that Israel has a clear case to answer on commission of war crimes.

The films tell the individual stories of those who are otherwise lost in the horrifying statistics. We learn of three teenage brothers used as human shields by the Israeli army, a Palestinian family killed by "precision weaponry" when drinking tea in a courtyard and a medic blown into pieces by the thousands of tiny metal darts, called flechettes, packed into each Israeli tank shell.

Recent estimates put the number of Palestinians killed in the bloody onslaught at more than 1,400 – including 430 children – and the number injured at more than 5,000. Israel's actions have been roundly condemned and demands from senior UN officials and human rights groups for Israel to be investigated for international war crimes over the "massive violation of human rights" are growing by the day.

In the face of such overwhelming evidence we might have expected a little more from our government than David Miliband's meek calls to "both sides" for an end to the hostilities. We might have expected our government to unequivocally condemn Israel's actions, cease all arms-related exports to Israel, cease giving financial assistance to Israel, cease trading with Israel on preferential terms, and we might have expected it to do everything within its power to halt the massacre and bring those responsible to account.

The failure of the government to do any of the above is insupportable both morally and (perhaps most important in terms of immediate accountability) legally. Under customary international law, the UK, as a result of Israel's actions which breach the principles of international humanitarian law, has a duty to act in certain ways. In the same way that an individual has a responsibility not to aid and abet murderers, states have similar responsibilities.

At Public Interest Lawyers, we are acting on behalf of Al-Haq, an independent Palestinian human rights NGO based in Ramallah, which is bringing a public law claim against the UK government for its breaches of international law and calling on it to fulfil its international legal obligations. We will argue in court that as a result of Israel's unlawful action the UK has certain responsibilities: to denounce Israel's actions; not recognise the situation created by Israel as lawful; not render aid or assistance or be otherwise complicit in Israel's action in Gaza; co-operate with other states to bring Israel's breaches to an end and take all possible steps to ensure Israel respects its obligations under the Geneva conventions. Everything one might reasonably expect our government to do, but none of which it has done thus far.

The government's response to the Al-Haq claim is to say that it is not the place of a British court to dictate foreign policy or rule on the legality of Israel's conduct. Such an argument is misplaced. We are not asking the court to rule on the niceties of foreign policy but the legality of the government's actions in the context of clear, egregious and established breaches of international law by the state of Israel, with whom we have ongoing relations. A British court that is well versed in international law and has the authority and jurisdiction to hold our government to its international legal obligations is, on the contrary, exactly the forum in which such issues should be considered.

If we are to uphold the rule of law across the world and if we are to challenge the culture of impunity that exists on the international stage, we must ensure that all states, including our own, take their responsibilities and obligations under international law seriously. It is time for our government to consider what its purported commitment to international law really means and, in the face of the Palestinian men, women and children who have lost their lives, it is time for our courts to be brave enough to hold the government to that commitment.

Source

Tessa Gregory and Phil Shiner are solicitors with Public Interest Lawyers.
Reply

جوري
03-25-2009, 05:33 PM
We can't expect the international community to hold the little Zionist cockroach state accountable for any way crimes.. not only does it have them on a leash but as well brain washed.

We (Muslims) must rise and hold the little Zionist cockroach state accountable.. ..
I am appalled by the Muslim response not the western one...

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
Reply

Uthman
03-25-2009, 05:34 PM
Israel has a case to answer on war crimes

Evidence that Israel committed war crimes in its 23-day operation in Gaza mounts by the week. Amnesty and Human Rights Watch have both appealed for a United Nations inquiry, after conducting their own investigations. Last week Ha'aretz published the testimonies of Israeli soldiers who alleged that a sniper shot a Palestinian mother and her two children, and that a company commander ordered an elderly woman to be killed. Yesterday Physicians for Human Rights accused soldiers of ignoring the special protection that Palestinian medical teams are entitled to receive. Today the Guardian releases three films in which our reporter Clancy Chassay reveals evidence that Israel used drones to fire at civilian targets, killing at least 48; he interviews three Palestinian youths used by Israeli soldiers as human shields and alleges that soldiers targeted paramedics and hospitals.

None of this is to deny that a case also exists against Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza. Firing unaimable rockets at civilians in southern Israel is also a war crime. But there is no symmetry of guilt. Israel has weapons it can place to within a metre of its intended targets. Its drones have high-quality optics that can see the colour of the target's sweater. And they film everything both before and after each attack. The army has the means to refute these allegations, but feels no obligation to do so. An international inquiry should be launched for no other reason than to hold it accountable.

Israel has not got a history of co-operating with international inquiries into the actions of its army, but it has reacted twice to domestic allegations. It admitted that one of its tanks fired two shells at the apartment of a Hebrew-speaking Palestinian doctor whose three daughters were killed and whose grief touched the nation, but it concluded that the action was "reasonable". The Ha'aretz material prompted a criminal inquiry by the military advocate, and two unusual statements by the outgoing defence minister, Ehud Barak, and the chief of staff, General Gabi Ashkenazi, each of whom praised the "moral" actions of the army. The prospects of a full international investigation of these allegations are mixed. The international criminal court has received more than 220 complaints from the Palestinian National Authority, the Arab League and the Palestinian justice minister. But whether the court has jurisdiction is another matter.

If the ICC route fails, there is always the UN, whose schools and stores found themselves in the line of fire. The secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, will this week receive the results of a private board of inquiry. This is narrow in scope, only examining incidents at UN facilities. But what happened there was bad enough, including the use of white phosphorus shells.

There are five reasons why we should have an international inquiry into the Israeli assault on Gaza. First, the conflict has not gone away. It could reignite at any moment under a prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, who is determined to finish the job. Second, the weight of evidence points not to isolated incidents, but to a new and deadly relaxation of the rules of engagement. This emerges from the soldiers' own testimony in Ha'aretz. "That's what is so nice, supposedly, about Gaza," one soldier said. "You see a person on a road ... He doesn't have to be with a weapon. You don't have to identify him with anything. You can just shoot him." Gaza was fought to a certain mood music. It suggested that the lives of Palestinian civilians did not matter when weighed against those of Israeli soldiers. Third, Israel is not immune to international opinion. A narrow rightwing coalition under Mr Netanyahu will be sensitive to criticism from Barack Obama, who has yet to reveal his cards. Fourth, what Israel does or is allowed to get away with doing affects attempts to establish the rule of international law in other conflicts. Fifth, we know what doing nothing leads to: another war, and ultimately a third intifada.

Source
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Uthman
03-25-2009, 05:40 PM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
We can't expect the international community to hold the little Zionist cockroach state accountable for any way crimes.. not only does it have them on a leash but as well brain washed.
I think the British government knows very well that Israel has violated international law. Why won't Britain as a member of the international community also exercise it's responsibilities to hold them to account for these war crimes?

format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
We (Muslims) must rise and hold the little Zionist cockroach state accountable.. ..
I am appalled by the Muslim response not the western one...
It's true that the Arab nations seem to have been deafeningly silent on this.

And Allah, exalted is he, knows best.
Reply

Uthman
03-25-2009, 05:41 PM
Gaza war crimes investigation
Reply

Uthman
03-25-2009, 05:48 PM
In the interest of balance, I may as well post a link to what Melanie Philips, a journalist who is Pro-Israeli had to say about all this on her blog:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melanieph...allywood.thtml
Reply

Chuck
03-25-2009, 05:50 PM
What Arab nations can do?
Reply

crayon
03-25-2009, 06:01 PM
"Will Israel be brought to book?"
Is that a rhetorical question?...:rollseyes

format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
Why won't Britain as a member of the international community also exercise it's responsibilities to hold them to account for these war crimes?
Because there's nothing in it for them.
It's quite easy to conveniently ignore something that does not affect you personally.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
03-25-2009, 07:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
In the interest of balance, I may as well post a link to what Melanie Philips, a journalist who is Pro-Israeli had to say about all this on her blog:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melanieph...allywood.thtml
the lady is harsh but convincing.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
03-25-2009, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
Because there's nothing in it for them.
It's quite easy to conveniently ignore something that does not affect you personally.
It's not that, the british government has been audible in numerous other cases of international law breach.
Reply

crayon
03-25-2009, 07:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
It's not that, the british government has been audible in numerous other cases of international law breach.
Yes, but condemning an action is not the same as actually doing something to stop it. They would have the power to if they wanted, it's just too much hassle, with nothing to gain.

Britain- "Hey Israel, could you please stop all those war crimes, they kind of violate international treaties and all that"
Israel-" :muddlehea*bombs some more civilians "accidentally"* "
Reply

The_Prince
03-25-2009, 07:50 PM
not much will happen, but what is good is that many are waking up, Israel completely lost the media war, and the media war isnt over, everyday that goes by their image gets more and more tarnished, and their crimes get more and more exposed, and this is a start, once the people wake up and realize the crimes that are happening then change will happen.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
03-25-2009, 07:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
Yes, but condemning an action is not the same as actually doing something to stop it. They would have the power to if they wanted, it's just too much hassle, with nothing to gain.

Britain- "Hey Israel, could you please stop all those war crimes, they kind of violate international treaties and all that"
Israel-" :muddlehea*bombs some more civilians "accidentally"* "
They did urge Israel to exert caution ...
Reply

crayon
03-25-2009, 07:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
They did urge Israel to exert caution ...
Lol!:D
(you did mean that as a joke, right?..or were you being serious?:X)
Reply

Whatsthepoint
03-25-2009, 08:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
Lol!:D
(you did mean that as a joke, right?..or were you being serious?:X)
Aynway, there's plenty of anti-Israeli bias, as well as plenty of anti-Palestinian bias in all fields of live, which shows it's not all about people killing people in a remote desert but rather something more, somethig broader.
As for breaces of intl law, I really don't know who to trust, but you could say I'm more pro Israel than pro Hamas.
Reply

Amadeus85
03-25-2009, 08:19 PM
As for the public relations, the biggest mistake of the Palestinians was to connect their cause and fight for independence with such extremist and westernophobic groups like Hamas and Hizbullah. It would be hard to demand for such struggled people like Palestinians the best solutions, but this choice is unacceptable for the european opinion.
Reply

nocturnal
03-28-2009, 02:44 AM
The so called international community is clearly selective in its choices of whom to reprimand and indict for violations of international law. The hypocrisy is manifest everywhere. Charles Taylor, Milosevic, Omar El Bashir yet what about Olmert, Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz etc.

There needs to be a new independently thinking bloc of nations, that should federate and together overhaul and reform the structures of institutions like the UN to make them genuinely more democratic, progressive and objective rather than subordinated to the whims of the US and its compliant cronies in Europe.
Reply

Questfortruth
03-28-2009, 02:59 AM
Why is it every time something like this happens Muslims want West to stand up for them?
Reply

Questfortruth
03-28-2009, 03:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by nocturnal
The so called international community is clearly selective in its choices of whom to reprimand and indict for violations of international law. The hypocrisy is manifest everywhere. Charles Taylor, Milosevic, Omar El Bashir yet what about Olmert, Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz etc.

There needs to be a new independently thinking bloc of nations, that should federate and together overhaul and reform the structures of institutions like the UN to make them genuinely more democratic, progressive and objective rather than subordinated to the whims of the US and its compliant cronies in Europe.
The worse none of the guards at Abu Gharib have been charged or jailed for their murder, rape, and torture. I don't think we can expect much from United States or any western countries.
Reply

wth1257
03-28-2009, 03:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
Yes, but condemning an action is not the same as actually doing something to stop it. They would have the power to if they wanted, it's just too much hassle, with nothing to gain.

Britain- "Hey Israel, could you please stop all those war crimes, they kind of violate international treaties and all that"
Israel-" :muddlehea*bombs some more civilians "accidentally"* "

lol, took the words out of my mouth. America urges restraint constantly. If my friend starts beating the daylights out of a smaller, weaker guy who can't fight back, and all I do is sit back every now and again saying "be sure not to overd= do it" very few people would consider my actions morally admirable.
Reply

Woodrow
03-28-2009, 03:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
Why is it every time something like this happens Muslims want West to stand up for them?
Is it to stand up or wanting the West to know the truth? The West has long held mistaken views about Israel. It is time that we in the West see what Zionism is.
Reply

wth1257
03-28-2009, 04:38 AM
I found this interesting

http://www.tariqramadan.com/spip.php?article10582
Reply

Amadeus85
03-28-2009, 04:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Is it to stand up or wanting the West to know the truth? The West has long held mistaken views about Israel. It is time that we in the West see what Zionism is.
The problem is that the other side, Palestinians, who did suffer a lot in their history, are represented by guys who want to get us, europeans too.
Reply

Questfortruth
03-28-2009, 04:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Is it to stand up or wanting the West to know the truth? The West has long held mistaken views about Israel. It is time that we in the West see what Zionism is.
Hmm. I personally think majority of westerners know the reality about Zionism. The ones that do not support Israel are often libertarians who actually speak out agiasnt Zionism. Then the west has Liberials, conservatives and ofcourse the neo-nazi Conservatives. All three of them support Israel unconditionally except the liberials want Israel not to kill civilians, Conservatives want Israel to only kill civilians that are in the way and Neo-nazi conservatives want Israel to do full invasion and kill everyone. For some reason I don't think there are conservatives in America anymore. There is Ron Paul but his views were more Libertarian and even the people who supported him were Libertarians. I do think there is difference between educating someone and begging someone. Most of the time I see western Muslims begging the non-Muslims to understand their view instead of educating them. Regardless people will vote for the president that will benefit them not the world. Unless, something happens to them then they will give out a reaction like on sept 11 that was the reason people re-elected george bush because he was in the interest of defending America. Obama was not elected because of his foreign policy, rather he was elected on his promise of saving Americans from this economic downfall also he was running agiasnt Dumb & Dumber.
Reply

Woodrow
03-28-2009, 04:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
The problem is that the other side, Palestinians, who did suffer a lot in their history, are represented by guys who want to get us, europeans too.
I think you will find that others are now starting to join in, not quite to the stage of being representatives, but as valid witnesses.

Perhaps a time will come when the Palestinians will get genuine help and not have to depend on Hamas and Hizbullah for survival. I was just watching a WW2 documentary and gained a bit of understanding over why Sweden at a point sided with Nazi Germany as protection against Russia. People will accept what ever helps them survive. It just may be our own fault that Palestine has to side with Hamas and Hizbullah, who else has stood up for the Palestinians?
Reply

Questfortruth
03-28-2009, 05:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I think you will find that others are now starting to join in, not quite to the stage of being representatives, but as valid witnesses.

Perhaps a time will come when the Palestinians will get genuine help and not have to depend on Hamas and Hizbullah for survival. I was just watching a WW2 documentary and gained a bit of understanding over why Sweden at a point sided with Nazi Germany as protection against Russia. People will accept what ever helps them survive. It just may be our own fault that Palestine has to side with Hamas and Hizbullah, who else has stood up for the Palestinians?
Just like Afganistan how the Northern Alliance joined up with the Taliban now and most of Hamid Karzai government officals are now working with the Taliban.
Reply

Amadeus85
03-28-2009, 05:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I think you will find that others are now starting to join in, not quite to the stage of being representatives, but as valid witnesses.

Perhaps a time will come when the Palestinians will get genuine help and not have to depend on Hamas and Hizbullah for survival. I was just watching a WW2 documentary and gained a bit of understanding over why Sweden at a point sided with Nazi Germany as protection against Russia. People will accept what ever helps them survive. It just may be our own fault that Palestine has to side with Hamas and Hizbullah, who else has stood up for the Palestinians?
Thats correct, it would be stupid to blame the Palestinians, who, as i said, did and do suffer a lot. Too much. But You know what ideology stands behind Hamas and Hezbulah, thats unacceptable for majority of people here.
Reply

Questfortruth
03-28-2009, 05:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Thats correct, it would be stupid to blame the Palestinians, who, as i said, did and do suffer a lot. Too much. But You know what ideology stands behind Hamas and Hezbulah, thats unacceptable for majority of people here.
What wiping out America's illegitimate child?
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-05-2009, 12:33 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-22-2009, 07:29 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-26-2008, 05:20 AM
  4. Replies: 33
    Last Post: 08-30-2007, 10:48 PM
  5. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-06-2006, 03:42 AM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!