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Silver
03-30-2009, 02:25 PM
:sl:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Prayer said in a congregation is equivalent to twenty-five (prayers) as compared with the prayer said by a single person. (sahih Muslim)

Ibn Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) assaying: Prayer said in a congregation is twenty-seven degrees more excellent than prayer said by a single person. (sahih Muslim)

If that's the case why is is Makrooh for women to go to mosques? Doesn't that mean that men get more rewards for their prayers?
There are a lot of people who say that it is makrooh for women to participate in congregational prayer.
In many muslim countries, women are forbidden from mosques.
I think there are still a few mosques in my country that don't allow women to attend congregational prayers.
In other mosques, the spaces allocated for women are very small. Women sometimes pray in the basement. They can't hear the imam...on the contrary, the spaces allocated for men are bigger, cleaner and have air-conditionning....

That's not fair. I keep telling myself that Islam respects women and I know that this is the truth. But Islam has become a man-oriented religion especially in muslim countries. Women are forbidden from the mosques which goes against the hadith:
When women ask permission for going to the mosque, do not prevent them.
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Civilsed
03-30-2009, 03:21 PM
:sl:

سبحان الله imsad

Women are 100% allowed in our masajid. This is not only is Arab countries unfortunately this is the practice is most countries. I think people need to wake up and start follow the Sunnah and not their culture.

Insha'Allah if we all raise the awareness of this issue with our masajid we can start to make a change however small to begin with.
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ahmed_indian
03-30-2009, 04:15 PM
wa alaikum salaam sister,

absolutely right, Islam respects women : Women are the twin halves of men" (Reported by Imaam Ahmad and classified as saheeh in Saheeh al-Jaami’ 1983),

But there is a need to tell something more. For example Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Do not prevent the women from going out to the mosques, even though their homes are better for them."

they should be welcome but they must come in an Islamic way like proper hijab, no perfume.

but i know in many places, girls are not abiding by these rules.so frm the viewpoint of preventing fitnah...its better that they pray at home and insha'allah they'll get equal reward.
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Silver
03-30-2009, 04:22 PM
but i know in many places, girls are not abiding by these rules.so frm the viewpoint of preventing fitnah...its better that they pray at home and insha'allah they'll get equal reward.
But isn't it wrong to prevent all women from entering the mosque just because there are some who don't abide by the rules?
Men are required to wear clean clothes when they go to the mosques...yet I see so many men (construction workers, carpenters, mechanics...) who come to the mosque sweating, wearing dirty clothes...and that disturbs other men. But noone prevents them from entering the mosque.
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AabiruSabeel
03-30-2009, 07:23 PM
:sl:

Hadhrat Aishah (Radhiyallahu 'Anha) is reported to have said:
"If the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alaihi wasallam) had seen
the women of our time, he would have stopped them
from going to the Masjid."

Now, Hadhrat Aishah (Radhiyallahu 'Anha) said this not very long after the death of the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alaihi wasallam). The Sahabah sometimes found themselves faced with a dilemma regarding the women visiting the Masjid. On the one hand, there was the explicit desire of the Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) in favour of permitting them to go to the Masjid, and on the other there was the possibility of looseness in society (the signs of which were becoming visible) that demanded an immediate check on this permission. Hadhrat 'Atikah (Radhiyallahu 'Anha) the wife of Hadhrat Umar (Radhiyallahu 'Anhu) went to Masjid regularly but Umar (Radhiyallahu 'Anhu) did not like it. Somebody told her that Hadhrat Umar (Radhiyallahu 'Anhu) did not like her going to the Masjid. She said:
"Why does he not prevent me from doing it then?"
After the death of Hadhrat Umar (Radhiyallahu 'Anhu) Hadhrat 'Atikah (Radhiyallahu 'Anha) was married to Hadhrat Zubair (Radhiyallahu 'Anhu). He also did not like her going to Masjid, but could not check her for the above obvious reason. Once he sat in her way to Masjid and, as she passed by him, he teased her. In the dark, she could not make out who it was. After this incident, she stopped going to Masjid. When Zubair (Radhiyallahu 'Anhu) inquired of her:
"Why do not you go to the Masjid now?"
She replied: "Times have changed."

Taken with slight modification from Hikayat-e-Sahabah (Stories of the Sahabah) by Shaikhul Hadeeth, Maulana Muhammad Zakariyyah Kandhlawi
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alcurad
03-30-2009, 07:37 PM
^he didn't just tease her as the story says, he slapped her bottom, she said: what is wrong with you, may god cut your hand(not recognizing him), when he came back from the prayer he asked her: why didn't I see you in the prayer? (look at what is done nowadays of building walls and telling women not to go to the mosque) etc.

any woman would not want to walk alone in the dark after that, especially at her age.
anyway, none of these people have the authority the prophet had, it was all their own opinions, only the prophet's words stand.
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Muhajabah
03-30-2009, 08:12 PM
Salaam aleikum

In muslim countries, I think it does not matter so much if women can or can not go to the masjid. It is not cruicial for them, because they do have a muslim mother, muslim relatives, muslim friends, muslim family, and a muslim society to depend on in most cases.

But while living in non-muslim countries, I think it is really really important that women have access to the masjids. To meet other women, to build networks, support, to have a place to come together and ask questions, talk about islam, about daily life, about our challenges as a minority in these countries.
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AabiruSabeel
03-30-2009, 08:16 PM
The scholars do not explicitly say it is Not permissible for women to pray at Masjid; rather they say it is better that they pray at their homes.

Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam of Leicester says:
If we were to apply this context to the modern era - where women are all over the market areas, shopping malls, shopping centres, streets and roads - it seems unfair to completely shun them from entering the Mosques. As one scholar of piety and knowledge once said: “We don’t mind women frequenting the most disliked of places in the sight of Allah (abghad al-Bilad) which are the bazaars (aswaq), but we have a major problem with women coming to the most beloved of places (ahab al-Bilad) in the sight of Allah, which are the Mosques!

Therefore, when women are allowed to go to the Bazaars, markets, shopping malls and other such places (and justifiably in many cases), then it does not seem right to completely shun them from coming to the Mosques. The main wisdom behind the position of the classical jurists was the fear of harm and corruption, and in the modern times women (Muslim, non-Muslim, practising and non-practising) are all over the place, hence if evil and wicked people would want to cause any harm to them, they would surely look out for them at other places rather than the Mosques. Also, women generally would be safe in our times from being harmed whilst going to the Mosques.

Secondly, at times there may be a genuine need for women to go to the Mosques, such as when travelling and the prayer time is about to come to an end. There have been many cases where a sister had to miss her prayer, for there were no facilities for women to pray in the Mosque. At times, women may need to go to the Mosque to learn sacred knowledge, attend a spiritual gathering and other such matters, hence she may need to pray her Salat in the Mosque.

Keeping the above in mind, and given the times we are living in, I believe that both of the following two extremist approaches should be avoided with regards to women going to Mosques, and we should adopt the middle way, as “the best of ways is the middle way”:

Some people are quite extreme in their support and encouragement for women attending congregational prayers to the point that they consider women who wish to pray at home to be deprived of the blessings and benefits of praying in the Mosque. At times, men and women are seen praying in the Mosque in such an informal and casual manner that the rules of Shariah are overlooked. The rules of Hijab are violated and men and women are quite willing to intermingle freely and openly in the Mosque. They think that actions are according to their intentions; hence, even if the means taken are unsound, it seems not matter to them. In some Mosques, on the occasion of Eid and other celebrations, women and men dress like they are attending some sort of a fashion show, with the women dressed up in all their make up and powerful fragrance.

This was actually what Sayyiduna Umar and Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with them both) were thinking of when they prevented women from going to the Mosques. One should always remember that “ends don’t justify the means” hence it is vital that in order to do an act of good, one must take means that are sound also. Open and casual intermingling of the sexes is prohibited in Shariah; hence, it will not be permitted for women to go to the Mosque in such a context.

On the other hand, we see that some people are quite extreme in preventing women from attending the Mosques that they don’t even have a designated place for women to pray. If a sister was travelling and was out of the house due to a need, and the time for prayer came in, what would she do? In many cases, women are forced into knocking on people’s doors to allow them to pray. If they are unsuccessful, they have no choice but to miss their prayers. This is another form of extremism which I believe should be avoided.

The middle way is that women should be encouraged to offer their regular prayers at home, and not come to the Mosque habitually without having a need to do so. At the same time, every Masjid should have facilities for a woman’s prayer area, so that if a sister is travelling she is able to make Wudu and offer her prayers without having to miss her prayers altogether. In the case of women coming to the Mosque, extreme care and precaution should be taken of observing the rules of Hijab, so that there is no fear of any Fitna. Both brothers and sisters should have separate entrances, and open intermingling of the two genders must be avoided. Sisters should also be wary that going to the Mosque should not lead to the non-fulfilment of their other household duties.

I believe this is the balanced approach that may be adopted in the west given the times we live in. Ultimately, the main objective of the slave, male or female, is to seek the pleasure of Allah Most High and not satisfy one’s own desire and wish. Hence, one should be content with the command of Allah Most High and His beloved Messenger (Allah bless him & give him peace) whether it suits one or otherwise. Therefore, Muslim women should understand that praying at home is just as equal in the sight of Allah to men praying in the Mosque. May Allah Almighty give us all the true understanding of Deen, Ameen

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK
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Silver
03-30-2009, 08:58 PM
In muslim countries, I think it does not matter so much if women can or can not go to the masjid. It is not cruicial for them, because they do have a muslim mother, muslim relatives, muslim friends, muslim family, and a muslim society to depend on in most cases.
Perhaps it doesn't matter. But it doesn't justify preventing women from entering mosques.
The Prophet (PBUH) allowed it. Does our opinion matter more than his?
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alcurad
03-31-2009, 01:52 AM
it is better to pray at the mosque, according to the prophet,,
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AabiruSabeel
03-31-2009, 03:53 AM
We don't always follow the literal meaning of the Ahadeeth. The Sahabah, Tabi'een and Fuqaha understood the Ahadeeth better than you and me.
I feel what Shaikh Muhammad ibn Adam said as the best understanding of the issue at present times.
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Muhajabah
03-31-2009, 06:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Silver
Perhaps it doesn't matter. But it doesn't justify preventing women from entering mosques.
The Prophet (PBUH) allowed it. Does our opinion matter more than his?
I never said we should be prevented. I think we always should be able to go, but I also know that culture sadly is stronger than islam many places, and I would say that it is not cruicial to go to the masjid when you are surrounded by muslims. Apart from Jummah, I always went to Jummah while living in a muslim country, but never for dhor or occational fajr prayer, we all did them at home.
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Dawud_uk
03-31-2009, 07:40 AM
:sl:

i would agree with a lot of mufti muhammad ibn adam says, but i also think this needs to be applied in leicester more.

I would go slightly further though, allowing women to pray in jammat in the masjid in seperate facilities and having these available but encouraging them to pray at home as Rasoolullah (saws) did.

umar ibn al khattab forbid women praying in jammat for a reason, but if we have seperate prayer facilities that reason is removed, the circumstances change then the fatwah should be looked at again.

one of the big problems is that families allow daughters and wives etc to go to school, free mix when it is not permissable in society and then forbid them from the masjid, forbid them male teachers in matters of the deen where it is permissable and allow it in matters of the dunya where it is not.
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عبد الله
03-31-2009, 08:42 PM
Ruling on women going to the masjid (mosque)

Here in my country (Surinam, South America), the Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah forbid women to go to the mosque, saying that the first Imaam (Imaam Abu Haneefah) learned to do what pleases the Holy Prophet SAWS (peace be upon him), and he had said once that it is better for the women to perform prayer at home, because there is more sawaab (reward) in that, and as we come here to earn sawaab, it is better to do this.

Is it right to forbid women to go to the mosque? If so, where in the Holy Qur’aan or the ahaadeeth can I find this?

________________________________________

There is no doubt that a woman’s prayer in her house is better for her than praying in the mosque, as is indicated by the Sunnah of the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him). He said: "Do not prevent your women from going to the mosque, even though their houses are better for them." (Reported by Abu Dawud in al-Sunan, Baab maa jaa’a fee khurooj al-nisaa’ ilaa’l-masjid: Baab al-tashdeed fee dhaalik. See also Saheeh al-Jaami‘, no. 7458).

Whenever a woman prays in a place that is more private and more hidden, that is better for her, as the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "A woman’s prayer in her house is better than her prayer in her courtyard, and her prayer in her bedroom is better than her prayer in her house." (Reported by Abu Dawud in al-Sunan, Baab maa jaa’a fee khurooj al-nisaa’ ilaa’l-masjid. See also Saheeh al-Jaami‘, no. 3833).

Umm Humayd, the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa‘idi reported that she came to the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) and said: "O Messenger of Allaah, I love to pray with you." He said: "I know that you love to pray with me, but praying in your house is better for you than praying in your courtyard, and praying in your courtyard is better for you than praying in the mosque of your people, and praying in the mosque of your people is better for you than praying in my mosque." So she ordered that a prayer-place be built for her in the furthest and darkest part of her house, and she always prayed there until she met Allaah (i.e., until she died). (Reported by Imaam Ahmad; the men of its isnaad are thiqaat (trustworthy)).

But the fact that praying at home is preferable does not mean that that women are not permitted to go to the mosque, as is clear from the following hadeeth:
From ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar, who said: "I heard the Messenger of Allaah SAWS (peace be upon him) say: ‘Do not prevent your women from going to the mosque if they ask your permission.’" Bilaal ibn ‘Abdullah said, "By Allaah, we will prevent them." (Ibn ‘Umar) turned to him and told him off in an unprecedented fashion, saying: "I tell you what the Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said, and you say ‘By Allaah, we will prevent them’!!" (reported by Muslim, 667).

But there are conditions attached to the permission for women to go to the mosque, as follows:
(1) She should wear complete hijaab.
(2) She should not go out wearing perfume.
(3) She should have the permission of her husband.

Her going out should not involve any other kind of prohibited acts, such as being alone in a car with a non-mahram driver. If a woman does something wrong like that, her husband or guardian has the right to stop her; in fact it is his duty to do so. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/983/
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alcurad
03-31-2009, 09:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
We don't always follow the literal meaning of the Ahadeeth. The Sahabah, Tabi'een and Fuqaha understood the Ahadeeth better than you and me.
I feel what Shaikh Muhammad ibn Adam said as the best understanding of the issue at present times.
how is it that the prophet's saying that praying at the mosque is better than praying at home by so and so degrees not to be taken literally?

It is some men's fault of not lowring their gaze, some women not following the proper way of dress etc, this is why women pray at the back, men at the front, as well as there being certain rules, but forbidding all women from praying at the mosque, or discouraging without there being anything truly prohibitive is simply a matter of following your own wishes, not following the prophet's words rather people who call themselves sheik/mullah,,

anyway, we all are given the ability to understand, it is up to us to follow whomever we wish to follow, whether it is the prophet or not is still up to us, so nevermind.
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AabiruSabeel
03-31-2009, 09:24 PM
:sl:

Brother, it seems like you have not gone through my earlier post and not read what Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam says.

The Hadeeth that you have mentioned is not the only hadeeth to be acted upon. First of all we have the Quran.
Allah Says:
“And stay in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former times of ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, O members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.” (Surah al-Ahzab, V: 33)

And Rasulullah Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam said in many Ahadeeth:
Sayyida Umm Salama (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “The best Mosque for a woman is the inner part of her home.” (Musnad Ahmad & Tabrani)
Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Do not prevent your womenfolk from attending the Mosque, even though their houses are better for them.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
Sayyida Umm Salama (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “A woman’s prayer in her inner room is better than her prayer in the outside room, and her prayer in the outside room is better than her prayer in the courtyard, and her prayer in the courtyard is better than her prayer in the Mosque.” (Mu’jam of Imam Tabrani)
Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) said:
“If the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) was alive to see what women are doing now (in A’isha’s time), he would surely have prevented them from attending the prayers in the Mosque just as the women of Banu Isra’il were prevented.” (Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim)

On the contrary:
Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “If your wives seek permission from you to go to the Mosque at night, let them.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 827)
Salim narrates from his father that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “If the wife of any one of you seeks permission to go to the Mosque, he may not prevent her.” (Sahih Muslim, no: 442)

Now which Hadeeth will people act upon? The one that best suits their desires, right?

Therefore we rely on the how the Sahabah, Tabi'een, and our elders ('Ulama) understood the Ahadeeth and applied them.

I have already mentioned my view which is in accordance with what Mufti Muhammad said:
The middle way is that women should be encouraged to offer their regular prayers at home, and not come to the Mosque habitually without having a need to do so. At the same time, every Masjid should have facilities for a woman’s prayer area, so that if a sister is travelling she is able to make Wudu and offer her prayers without having to miss her prayers altogether. In the case of women coming to the Mosque, extreme care and precaution should be taken of observing the rules of Hijab, so that there is no fear of any Fitna. Both brothers and sisters should have separate entrances, and open intermingling of the two genders must be avoided. Sisters should also be wary that going to the Mosque should not lead to the non-fulfilment of their other household duties.

I believe this is the balanced approach that may be adopted in the west given the times we live in. Ultimately, the main objective of the slave, male or female, is to seek the pleasure of Allah Most High and not satisfy one’s own desire and wish. Hence, one should be content with the command of Allah Most High and His beloved Messenger (Allah bless him & give him peace) whether it suits one or otherwise. Therefore, Muslim women should understand that praying at home is just as equal in the sight of Allah to men praying in the Mosque. May Allah Almighty give us all the true understanding of Deen, Ameen
:w:
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عبد الله
04-01-2009, 10:15 AM
Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh brother alcurad,

In regards to your previous post, where you stated that discouraging women from going to the masjid isn't following the teachings of the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wassallam...

Umm Humayd, the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa‘idi reported that she came to the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) and said: "O Messenger of Allaah, I love to pray with you." He said: "I know that you love to pray with me, but praying in your house is better for you than praying in your courtyard, and praying in your courtyard is better for you than praying in the mosque of your people, and praying in the mosque of your people is better for you than praying in my mosque." So she ordered that a prayer-place be built for her in the furthest and darkest part of her house, and she always prayed there until she met Allaah (i.e., until she died). (Reported by Imaam Ahmad; the men of its isnaad are thiqaat (trustworthy)).

Please see my previous post, the matter is very clear.

The question I would like to know the answer to is; why would a woman want to go to the masjid, when it is clear that it is better for her to pray in her home? It almost sounds like some women aren't interested in what the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wassallam said, but rather they make it an issue of equal rights between men and women.
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SouljahOfAllah
04-01-2009, 10:18 AM
we're allowed in our masjid :D
but when the woment talked straigth through a letchure once we all got banned from the masjid for liek 2 weeks :s so embaressing.
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