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north_malaysian
04-02-2009, 01:35 AM
Death after caning mystery

Thursday April 2, 2009

By SARBAN SINGH
By FARIK ZOLKEPLI


GEMAS: Mystery surrounds the death of a nine-year-old pupil of SJK (C) Kampung Baru Tiong near here who died several hours after being caned on the back of his hands by a teacher.

Chan Qi Xian had complained of a severe headache after he was caned around noon on Tuesday for not doing his homework.

State Education Department director Datuk Abdullah Mohammad confirmed the case but was quick to add that the caning could not have possibly caused the boy’s death.

“I was told that the teacher caned the boy for failing to do his homework. That is a normal thing to do.

“His death is a mystery and we hope the post-mortem will be able to shed light on the actual cause of death,” he added.

Abdullah said the school authorities rushed the pupil to the Segamat Hospital when he complained of dizziness. They also contacted his parents.

When the boy’s condition deteriorated, doctors rushed Chan to the Sultanah Aminah Hospital in Johor Baru.

However, it is learnt that the hospital authorities there told Qi Xian’s parents that his condition was critical and that he would not survive.

His parents then brought him home where he died at 3.30am yesterday.

Abdullah said that based on the headmaster’s report, Qi Xian did not suffer from any illnesses. “But we do not know if he had a medical condition,” he said.

Abdullah, who was away attending a meeting, said he would visit the school to talk to the teacher as well as other staff members about the incident.

Headmaster Lim Yan Ho refused to disclose details, adding that he had submitted a report to the state education department.

State police chief SAC I Datuk Osman Salleh said the boy could not have died due to the caning.

“It makes little sense to say that the death was due to the caning. We are doing our own investigations to see if the boy suffered from some medical condition,” he said.

He also advised parents to notify the school authorities if their children had medical problems. ”This will allow the school to have every pupil’s medical record.

“This way, we will be able to prevent untoward incidents, especially when disciplining them,” he said.

Qi Xian’s remains were brought to the Tuanku Ja’afar Hospital here yesterday morning for a post-mortem. It is learnt that the autopsy would only be carried out today.

In Johor Baru,state health department director Dr Mohd Khairi Yakub said they would investigate the allegation that the Sultanah Aminah Hospital had turned away Qi Xian.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...536&sec=nation
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north_malaysian
04-02-2009, 01:36 AM
is caning good for kids?
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Dawud_uk
04-02-2009, 06:08 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
is caning good for kids?
no, it is forbidden in islam to beat children, to hit them on their faces, to leave perminent damage etc.

our deen is complete, Allah and his Rasool saws have even left us rules on the extent we are allowed to physically chastise our children, wives, slaves etc.
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north_malaysian
04-02-2009, 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
no, it is forbidden in islam to beat children, to hit them on their faces, to leave perminent damage etc.

our deen is complete, Allah and his Rasool saws have even left us rules on the extent we are allowed to physically chastise our children, wives, slaves etc.
at school (at least during my time) there were canings implemented at schools.

The worst implementation was to be caned at the school assembly...:thumbs_do

Alhamdulillah, I was never been caned ... but stood on the chair (and table once) several times...
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ardianto
04-02-2009, 02:47 PM
Caning ? what is caning ?
Is there anyone can give me an information about caning ?
:?

Wait, wait !
I know where I can find that information.
I must go to library and read a book, 'History of education during colonial era'.
Reply

aadil77
04-02-2009, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Caning ? what is caning ?
Is there anyone can give me an information about caning ?
:?

Wait, wait !
I know where I can find that information.
I must go to library and read a book, 'History of education during colonial era'.
chill out lol, this is caning http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/asiao...001_caning.jpg

the guy is holding a cane^
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ardianto
04-02-2009, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
chill out lol, this is caning http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/asiao...001_caning.jpg

the guy is holding a cane^
But the guy is not in Indonesia.

In regular school, Indonesian theachers never caning their students.
However, in some........(what is English name for Islamic school where student learn Qur'an, Hadith and everything about Islam ?).......teacher maybe caning their students.
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ardianto
04-02-2009, 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
is caning good for kids?
Ok, this is a time for serious discussion.
Caning is not good for kids. Indonesian government forbid teacher caning student.
However, in fact, sometime teacher slap, beat, hit or even kick student. And this is normal in some Indonesian schools.
There were some cases that causing serious injury, and, if I am not wrong, one student was died.
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جوري
04-02-2009, 03:43 PM
frankly that is barbaric, I am appalled!
What a senseless death of a young life..
Did this child have an autopsy? I am not sure I understand, least of which why the hospital discharged a dying child to his parents?

Many un-answered Q's but the worst of them is still incorporating corporal punishments in school.

:w:
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Muezzin
04-02-2009, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
But the guy is not in Indonesia.

In regular school, Indonesian theachers never caning their students.
However, in some........(what is English name for Islamic school where student learn Qur'an, Hadith and everything about Islam ?).......teacher maybe caning their students.
Madressa?
Reply

syilla
04-03-2009, 01:51 AM
:salamext:

Actually the teacher only canned softly on the hand palm... once and no more.

The doctor did the post mortem...the kid died cause the brain has ruptured... he had a brain tumor :(
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north_malaysian
04-03-2009, 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
:salamext:

Actually the teacher only canned softly on the hand palm... once and no more.

The doctor did the post mortem...the kid died cause the brain has ruptured... he had a brain tumor :(
oh... brain tumor... that's why it's so mysterious... never heard of any kids died of caning...

But I've seen teachers hitting students with that big ruler used for blackboard during my time... and every single class had that "rotan bulu ayam" (feather duster) which is used to discipline the kids... but I dont know about the schools now.
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Dawud_uk
04-03-2009, 05:36 AM
:sl:

that is seriously messed up, so the poor kid dies and then they put him the pain of having an autosy afterwards? (and i realise how strange that will sound to atheists on here)

:sl:
Reply

ardianto
04-03-2009, 07:36 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Madressa?
No. Madressa or Madrasah in Indonesia is an Islamic school. Madressa students sleep and live in their own home. Islamic school in my last post is an Islamic school where all student living at there. In Indonesia that is 'pesantren' from 'pe-Santri-an', House of Santri (Islamic students).
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north_malaysian
04-03-2009, 07:40 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
In Indonesia that is 'pesantren' from 'pe-Santri-an', House of Santri (Islamic students).
In northern Malaysia and southern Thailand, it's known as "Sekolah Pondok"
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north_malaysian
04-03-2009, 07:42 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
:sl:

that is seriously messed up, so the poor kid dies and then they put him the pain of having an autosy afterwards? (and i realise how strange that will sound to atheists on here)

:sl:
Caned pupil died from ruptured brain tumour


Friday April 3, 2009

SEREMBAN: A ruptured brain tumour caused the death of the nine-year-old boy who was caned on the hand on Tuesday, said his father.

Chan Teen Fat, 40, said he never knew that Qi Xian had a medical problem nor had the son complained of headaches in the past.

“We are deeply saddened by Qi Xian’s untimely death,” he said outside the Tuanku Ja’afar Hospital mortuary yesterday.

“He was a cheerful boy, he looked so healthy. There were no symptoms to indicate that he was ill,” said Teen Fat, who has another son studying in Standard Six at SJK (C) Kampung Baru Tiong near Gemas which Qi Xian attended.

“I don’t hold anyone responsible for his death. My family and I accept it with an open heart,” he added.

Qi Xian had complained of a severe headache after he was caned around noon for not doing his homework, following which he was rushed to Segamat Hospital.

When the boy’s condition deteriorated, doctors rushed him to the Sultanah Aminah Hospital in Johor Baru. The hospital told Qi Xian’s parents that he would not survive. They brought him home where he died at 3.30am on Wednesday.

State Education Department director Datuk Abdullah Mohammad said the school had not breached any regulations pertaining to the caning.

State deputy OCCI Supt Zazali Musa said police had recorded a statement from the teacher.

In Petaling Jaya, Education Minis­try director-general Datuk Alimuddin Mohd Dom said they were waiting for reports on the incident.

The school’s headmaster, Lim Yan Ho, said he would also submit a report to the state education department.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...735&sec=nation
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ardianto
04-03-2009, 08:04 AM
I said in my post, sometime Indonesian teacher slap, beat or hit their student. That is only for 7th until 12th class and that is for serious case like smoking.
When I was a little schoolboy if student failing to do homework or student has dirty nails, teacher us wooden ruler for caning (exactly, soft caning).
That was happened in the past, not in this present.
But when teacher is very angry and cannot handle his emotion hi will slap his student. That is still happen, even if the student is a 10 years old boy.
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north_malaysian
04-03-2009, 08:17 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
When I was a little schoolboy if student failing to do homework or student has dirty nails, teacher us wooden ruler for caning (exactly, soft caning).
In my school too...
Reply

alcurad
04-03-2009, 08:24 AM
^north_malaysian this is so sad:cry:, talk to the headmaster immediately!

heh anyway, we got the same thing back in KSA, this is truly incomprehensible now that I think about it, back then it was a fact of life, it is against the rules/law too-i think-, yet it still happens,,
methinks we should home school instead of packing the young ones in tin cans I mean classes and feed them info they're never going to use,,
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north_malaysian
04-03-2009, 08:29 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
^north_malaysian this is so sad:cry:, talk to the headmaster immediately!

heh anyway, we got the same thing back in KSA, this is truly incomprehensible now that I think about it, back then it was a fact of life, it is against the rules/law too-i think-, yet it still happens,,
methinks we should home school instead of packing the young ones in tin cans I mean classes and feed them info they're never going to use,,
if I'm not mistaken, that this tragedy happened at a chinese school... I've heard urban legend saying that when chinese parents send their kids to Chinese schools, they'll give tiny canes (or rattan?) to the teachers to discipline their kids at schools... i dont know whether it's true or not.:muddlehea
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alcurad
04-03-2009, 08:37 AM
man rattan really hurts, I saw it being used, it's brutal, the poor kids, and some use glue sticks
http://www.dickblick.com/products/gl...-trigger-guns/,,
but how to stop it?
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north_malaysian
04-03-2009, 08:48 AM
State Education Department director Datuk Abdullah Mohammad said the school had not breached any regulations pertaining to the caning.

From the link, I gave before.....

So, corporal punishment is still there...
Reply

alcurad
04-03-2009, 08:51 AM
why no parents object though? or couldn't this be challenged in the courts?
methinks culture probably holds it as a virtue, or building character or such.
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north_malaysian
04-03-2009, 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
why no parents object though? or couldn't this be challenged in the courts?
methinks culture probably holds it as a virtue, or building character or such.
I've heard some parents sued schools and teachers for caning, slapping, saying racial remarks to the students...

And there are cases of teachers being bullied by students too...
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SouljahOfAllah
04-03-2009, 09:28 AM
what?! whats caning? like getting a can and waking the kid with it :S
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north_malaysian
04-03-2009, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by SouljahOfAllah
what?! whats caning? like getting a can and waking the kid with it :S
it's like having a thin stick made of rattan and beat the kid...
Reply

SouljahOfAllah
04-03-2009, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
it's like having a thin stick made of rattan and beat the kid...
:embarrass oooh
Reply

saba muslimah
04-03-2009, 10:09 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
it's like having a thin stick made of rattan and beat the kid...
OH MY GOD.. that is very Bad Way Of Punishment for Kids;
[PIE]MUST STOP CANING[/PIE]
Reply

ardianto
04-03-2009, 12:46 PM
Stop caning, change to another punishment. Write a sentence 100, 200 or 500 times.
Reply

جوري
04-03-2009, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
:sl:

that is seriously messed up, so the poor kid dies and then they put him the pain of having an autosy afterwards? (and i realise how strange that will sound to atheists on here)

:sl:
:sl:
I don't approve of autopsies except in exactly such cases.. I am curious however, of how you know that there is pain on autopsy?

There was a time when kaffirs killed Muslims then used their bodies as an example.. and there is a famous case I don't know remember the parties involved, but when the mother was informed of what happened to her martyred sons, she said:

'la yahoum salkh ash'ah ba3d zab'7iha'
literally it doesn't matter if you skin the sheep after you have slaughtered it.. How can you think there is any 'human sensation' perceived after death?
When you are under anesthesia do you feel? let alone when there is no perception of pain whatsoever by brain activity..

Any pain that falls on anyone in the grave isn't bodily, only Allah swt knows how that pain occurs.
I have asked this question before and was given a reply by Ansar stating the same on the 'Akhira section' perhaps someone can help find it insha'Allah

:w:
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alcurad
04-03-2009, 11:38 PM
punishment in the grave is actually a disputed matter, as per the qur'an chapter 36:

"They will not (have to) wait for aught but a single Blast: it will seize them while they are yet disputing among themselves!

No (chance) will they then have, by will, to dispose (of their affairs), nor to return to their own people!

The trumpet shall be sounded, when behold! from the sepulchers (men) will rush forth to their Lord!


They will say: "Ah! Woe unto us! Who hath raised us up from our beds of repose?"... (A voice will say: ) "This is what (Allah) Most Gracious had promised. And true was the word of the messengers!"


Then, on that Day, not a soul will be wronged in the least, and ye shall but be repaid the meeds of your past Deeds."

notice that they are described here as surprised and shocked at having been resurrected, and at the prophets' warnings manifest in front of their eyes, if there were indeed anything happening to dead people other than being dead they would probably know what was happening at the day of judgment.

there some ahadeeth supposedly, but if anything is in opposition with what the qur'an states it is not the prophet's saying.
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جوري
04-04-2009, 01:21 AM
^^ yup

Media Tags are no longer supported


VERSE 52
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north_malaysian
04-05-2009, 04:12 AM
Caning, corporal punishment etc is something usual in schools in eastern asia and southeast asia from Indonesia up to Japan...

From a Singaporean movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9S3C...eature=related

From a Thai movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSKDC...eature=related

From Indonesia (real one, not a movie)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl6uo...eature=related

From Malaysia (real one, not a movie, it's mentioned that the student started first)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsmP3...eature=related

from South Korea (real one, not a movie)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVdbPrwyU54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Bs6...eature=related
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