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Zahida
04-03-2009, 10:16 PM
:sl: Was just wondering of any of you have seen the news and the coverage of the seventeen year old girl being thrashed on suspected Adultery and your views on this.

This happened in Swat in Pakistan and there is a horrible video on TV where the brother is holding her down as she is being thrashed..............and filmed by some sick geek......................imsad:w:
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Ansariyah
04-03-2009, 10:29 PM
:w: SIs
where did this happen?
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Zahida
04-03-2009, 10:32 PM
:sl: Sis just edited my post as i forgot to mention where........ I just feel so sick and have cried my eyes out for this poor young woman who they have claimed guilty until proved innocent...................:w:
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elee
04-03-2009, 10:46 PM
What is "thrashing"? stoning?
if so it's terrible.. i don't know how some people don't fear Allah when doing things like that. Prophet(pbuh) clearly says 4 witneses, or woman's confession are needed.. it doesn't say "guilty until proven innocent".
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Ansariyah
04-03-2009, 10:46 PM
I just read wat u added to ur edit......How can people be so heartless. Did she die?:(
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Güven
04-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Yeh I saw that one, today on news!

I think it's unacceptable no matter what, okay she is suspected of adultery Allahu Alim , We leave it to Allah , He is the best of judges.

But WHO are they to judge other people's sins ? are they themselves sinless?

That girl is struggling in this world full with distractions and fitnah.

what view do you think the girl has right now about the religion?
Why couldn't they use better , more peaceful methods ?
It's like they are trying to find a reason , an excuse to use violence.

I detest it.

If I had a Daughter that committed adultery, I would be (very)angry okay but not brutally trash her and especially not in public. I would have explain her that it is wrong what she did, I would have explain her why it is wrong , Talk about religion etc.

here is the link for those who wanna see it , It's all over the news. :(
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6022878.ece

she cries: “I am repenting, my father is repenting what I have done, my grandmother is repenting what I have done...”

No matter how many times I watch it , I just ...can't accept it, sorry.
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Ansariyah
04-03-2009, 11:06 PM
I just watched the video, it really made me cringe. I thought they were going to kill her, Alhamdulilah that wasn't the case.
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alcurad
04-03-2009, 11:11 PM
not to sound heartless, but everyone's reactions are interesting, I see people advocating shari'a etc, well this is found in the qur'an too, so if four witnesses were there the lashing would in fact have to be applied, not like in the video, but still it would somewhat like it.
people should not confuse tribal customs with Islam, that being said, what would you say if it was actually proven by 4 witnesses,,
to note, in Shari'a, lashing is not meant to hurt rather to humiliate, rather it is mostly a light touch, rather than the full armed swing as that ---- in the vid was doing,,
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Zafran
04-03-2009, 11:28 PM
salaam

I just watched 20 seconds and i had enough............this is not what sharia is meant to be.....seriously............just sick.

May Allah help the women.

peace
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Güven
04-03-2009, 11:30 PM
IF it was proven by 4 witnesses...I think they should atleast have justice and mercy.
and do it properly how the Qu'ran mentions it and not how they think it should.


people tend to "suspect" things bla bla bla and then use it as an excuse to use violence.



And Allah knows best!

:w:
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GreyKode
04-03-2009, 11:35 PM
La hawla wala Quwwata ella bi ALLAH.
I can only imagine the amount of anti-islamic attacks that will follow this event.
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alcurad
04-03-2009, 11:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
IF it was proven by 4 witnesses...I think they should atleast have justice and mercy.

:w:
you mean not enact out the punishment and do something else?
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Güven
04-03-2009, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
you mean not enact out the punishment and do something else?
Like I said , They Should act how Allah swt says they should.


And Allah knows best

:w:
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alcurad
04-03-2009, 11:58 PM
but Guven, that would make everyone say the repented, and get away with whatever they want to do, no?
btw, I agree with you:), rather it's for the sake of maturing this thread,,
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Güven
04-04-2009, 12:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
but Guven, that would make everyone say the repented, and get away with whatever they want to do, no?
btw, I agree with you:), rather it's for the sake of maturing this thread,,

I didn't say that they should get away with it just because they say that they have so-called repented.
No they should do what the Qu'ran say they should , lol third time I said it :D

and what's the point in repenting, if they have been judged already ?


Like I said Allah swt knows best.

:w:
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alcurad
04-04-2009, 12:18 AM
but Guven,they are actually sinless after getting punished :)
I think we should stop abusing women period, regardless in whose name it happens, as I see it, as long as Shari'a cannot be implemented fully somewhere, it should not be implemented partially either, that could actually be worse, the names and tags should matter, weather someone calls it "Islamic" or not does not make it so or not, rather justice and equality are Islamic, protecting the weak is Islamic, working to the betterment of each other is Islamic, but some people beating and killing anyone they dislike, calling any who disagree with them hypocrite, etc etc, that is not what our religion is supposed to accomplish, these people are applying their own version of what they call 'shari'a', which even from afar doesn't come close to resemblance,,
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chacha_jalebi
04-04-2009, 12:21 AM
everyone is sick of the taliban or whoever they are! like come on man, you wana implement islaam, and this is the way they go around doing it, they destroyed like 1000s of schools, because girls went there, which doesnt have a islamic point to it @ all, they have given islaam and given it such a bad name, may Allah (Swt) deal with them,

now it wasnt proven that she did anythin, its all based on suspicion, apparently the guy who she was "caught" with, was the local electrician coming to fix a fault! and i do wonder did the man get caned? also who are the four witnesses who witnessed them doin anythin, see where is the islaam in this, these fools should cane themselfs all the way to the top of the butifull swat mountains and then give themselfs one massive cane and jump of the mountains :D
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Güven
04-04-2009, 12:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
but Guven,they are actually sinless after getting punished :)
I think we should stop abusing women period, regardless in whose name it happens, as I see it, as long as Shari'a cannot be implemented fully somewhere, it should not be implemented partially either, that could actually be worse, the names and tags should matter, weather someone calls it "Islamic" or not does not make it so or not, rather justice and equality are Islamic, protecting the weak is Islamic, working to the betterment of each other is Islamic, but some people beating and killing anyone they dislike, calling any who disagree with them hypocrite, etc etc, that is not what our religion is supposed to accomplish, these people are applying their own version of what they call 'shari'a', which even from afar doesn't come close to resemblance,,
I knew that. :D


Well Chacha said it better than me :p
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alcurad
04-04-2009, 12:25 AM
I agree, although it is not the Taliban whatever that means nowadays, rather the society that accepts and condones as well as calls for such actions, removing this group or that from power is only a temporary solution,,,
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chacha_jalebi
04-04-2009, 12:27 AM
^ agreed, one thing i dont understand is apparently swat in pakistan is under taliban control, thats like someone taking over a city in your country! how did the pakistani govt let that happen! silly pakistanians!
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alcurad
04-04-2009, 12:37 AM
the americans basically messed up the regional dynamics, the paki army was not made to counter insurgencies, rather overwhelming regular military forces, so even if the army intervenes it's not going to help much, much more professional not to mention better equipped armies-NATO-aren't having a cake walk either, not to mention the area was under their control until the Taliban were ousted,now they have to pretend their previous allies/proxies are enemies,,

this is what lawlessness brings, the degeneration of all aspects of life, people who rail against so called 'muslim' governments should consider what would happen if indeed these governments fell, it would be even worse then, rather we should seek to improve the situation while not getting our emotions take over,,
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arabianprincess
04-04-2009, 12:47 AM
salam wa 3lykom... where can i see the video ? can someone get me the link ..
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elee
04-04-2009, 01:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by arabianprincess
salam wa 3lykom... where can i see the video ? can someone get me the link ..
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6022878.ece
:w:
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Yanal
04-04-2009, 02:38 AM
So sad,no sister can walk on the streets of Pakistian without something like this going on. And I thought it was a sweet calm place to live in.
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roohani.doctor
04-04-2009, 02:48 AM
No matter how you look at it, there is no justification for this act. Islam does not allow one to beat a woman in front of so many men/people, nor does it allow one to continue hurting her and beating her as she cries out in pain. I'm traumatized at how someone could do this. Especially in the name of Islam. How dare they? If she was having an affair, couldn't they have dealt with it at home in an Islamic HALAL way??

OMG my heart goes out to her. :'(:'(:'(

How sick can these "Muslim" people get? This gives another chance for the media to attack Islam and for pple to hate Muslims.

May Allah bless and guide the poor girl. Ameen. And may Allah also guide those sick losers. Ameen.

Sorry to sound so bitter but I'm disgusted and terrified of what Islam has become.

The links are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1gKY7CX5ew

and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7980899.stm
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Questfortruth
04-04-2009, 03:15 AM
Lets not judge we do not even know if the video is authentic or not. NWO will go to any lenghts to get the people on their side so they can KILL THE SAME WOMEN THEY GO IN TO PROTECT. LIKE in afganistan where they dropped 500 pound bombs on villages to protect the women well now they will be protected in their graves.
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Questfortruth
04-04-2009, 03:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
everyone is sick of the taliban or whoever they are! like come on man, you wana implement islaam, and this is the way they go around doing it, they destroyed like 1000s of schools, because girls went there, which doesnt have a islamic point to it @ all, they have given islaam and given it such a bad name, may Allah (Swt) deal with them,

now it wasnt proven that she did anythin, its all based on suspicion, apparently the guy who she was "caught" with, was the local electrician coming to fix a fault! and i do wonder did the man get caned? also who are the four witnesses who witnessed them doin anythin, see where is the islaam in this, these fools should cane themselfs all the way to the top of the butifull swat mountains and then give themselfs one massive cane and jump of the mountains :D
I am sick of people who are not educated in the Taliban history. Taliban is the best thing happened to Afganistan. Right girls should go to schools when soldiers are picking young guys up from streets its not SAFE. Its a war zone and you are crying about sending girls to school subhanllah.
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Questfortruth
04-04-2009, 03:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v-TUNwFU4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNfrCklURkA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txe3aZry0_I

Lets talk about these videos.
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wth1257
04-04-2009, 04:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
I am sick of people who are not educated in the Taliban history. Taliban is the best thing happened to Afganistan. Right girls should go to schools when soldiers are picking young guys up from streets its not SAFE. Its a war zone and you are crying about sending girls to school subhanllah.
The polling data suggusts that the vast majority of Afghans do not share your positive view of the Taliban.

I remember Robert Fisk saying when he returned to Afghanistan after the Taliban took over and a store keeper said to him, with regard to the primitivism and barbarism of the Taliban, "What can you expect, all they have ever known in a refugee camp, they want to turn the whole world into a refugee camp".
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Bint-Al-Islam
04-04-2009, 04:19 AM
Thats soo sad seeing the video.. May Allah forgive and protect her.. Ameen
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wth1257
04-04-2009, 04:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bint-Al-Islam
Thats soo sad seeing the video.. May Allah forgive and protect her.. Ameen
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.

I wonder how the man through this message was brought to the world would feel about this event, or those thugs who beat that 70 something woman in Saudi Arabia
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Dawud_uk
04-04-2009, 04:43 AM
:sl:

how quickly people give up on the shariah and turn their backs on islam after one little video clip, subhanallah.

so lets look at the facts not the western media hype...

it is actually part of a bigger video of a few minutes that includes some brothers being flogged also, but they have cut out the part of the 17 year old woman (girl implies someone under the age of responsibility and she was over this) and used it to once again attack islam and say we repress women.

she was tried and convicting in a shariah court of being alone with a married man who was seen coming out of a house with her and four witnesses testified to this, they also had witnesses to their honesty and character as called for in the shariah. the man was also flogged according to others testimony btw.

so her crime was not zina, but public morality, something the shariah court is allowed to set a small punishment for and she wasnt flogged 100 lashes but 37.

one of the men holding her down is her own brother and her family accepted the punishment even if she did not, i agree it shouldnt have taken place in public but this is a minor matter when compared to the situation before where no shariah was implemented.

the woman (or the men in the longer clip) are not being thrashed, an emotionally charged word implying a great deal of force, instead she is being flogged and as you can see the arm of the man doing it doesnt go back past a vertical drawn up from his torso so that he cannot put full force into the flogging, it is meant to hurt not draw blood or do damage to skin and tissue like the floggings given in british navel traditions of justice for example.

so what we have is a woman, and also some men given a public flogging for various offenses, ok it shouldnt be public for the women but still now everyone knows you cannot behave with immorality and that Allah's law is supreme.

she may be in pain but this will not leave perminent damage, only wound her pride and make her unable to sleep on her back for a week or two, if she learns from her mistake and keeps away from her sister's husbands then there is no reason to suppose it will happen again to her.

i have nothing but love, al-wala with those brothers and sisters in swat and elsewhere who are trying their best to implement the shariah, the law of Allah and reject the kufr of man made law whether that be the pakistani penel code or the tribal law followed by some.

and pray and make du'a they can implement shariah over the whole of pakistan and get rid of the taghoot who rules over them, swat has actually moved up my list of places to make hijrah towards because of the fact they are implementing shariah, even if i dont agree 100% with every ruling, it is better than anything else and certainly better than the british given pakistani penal code which is kufr to judge by and kufr to rule by.

:sl:
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AabiruSabeel
04-04-2009, 06:34 AM
:sl:

"O you who believe! If a evil-liver comes to you with news, verify it, lest you harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful to what you have done."

QUOTE:
This is a very serious command that we as Muslims need to follow, and there would be a lot less distrust and disunity in the Ummah if we did.

We don't really know either the circumstances or even who those people in the video are, and non-Muslim news sources are simply not trustworthy AT ALL. In fact if you pay attention you can often find many unexplained contradictions in these kind of demonization stories. For example, it seems to me like the guys holding the girl do not even have fist-length beards. ???

The fact is there is a concerted effort to discredit and demonize shariah, and feeding the public with these stories every months or so is the easiest way to do it. As Muslims we should not believe anything unless it is first-hand or trusted (i.e. someone we know personally as a truthful practicing Muslim) second-hand knowledge. Otherwise there is a possibility of falling into very serious sin by suspicion and not having husn-e-zann. END QUOTE.

format_quote Originally Posted by SF Member
I received a phone call from a relative in Pakistan and asked him about this. He told me the reality of what happened. He said that this footage is from before the Shariah law was introduced in the Swat valley a couple of weeks ago. It is from the time before when Swat was not being governed under Shariah law. The antics shown have been covered by the Pakistani media. Qazis in the Swat valley, when asked about this, clarified that this did not happen under their rule but before. They also condemned the punishment saying it was not in accordance of Shariah and said it was the outcome of village hotheads taking the law into their own hands.

This news has specifically been shown on Geo etc and they seem to still insist on it being recent. In light of this, I think we need to take with a huge pinch of salt what comes through on the media. The media has a particular gripe with Shariah and is doing its best to demonise the implementation of Shariah law.
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^..sTr!vEr..^
04-04-2009, 11:13 AM
this is all fake ... US wants everyone to think that islam teaches extremism thats it
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^..sTr!vEr..^
04-04-2009, 11:15 AM
i totally agree with bro Aabirusabeel...very truee
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Zahida
04-04-2009, 11:16 AM
:sl: Am very impressed with some of the views^^^^^ however what has happened does not justify that thee girl was thrashed infront of the whole village and a video recording was made of it...........Also if any of you have ARY channells they are still saying there is no evidence that this girl is guilty.............imsad I feel really bad that this has happened and very very frustated that it was allowed to be filmed....................

Shariah Law.........Is a difficult topic. Pakistan women go around weraring jeans, have their heads uncovered behave unappropriately not within the Islamic Laws.............why should one Law apply to this child when thousands/millions of others are committing sins which are clear to see???????????:w:imsad
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ahmed_indian
04-04-2009, 11:25 AM
due to harshness of few muslims, the ppl are running away frm islam.

now the world will become more against sharia law.

and only Allah is the source of help and goodness
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Questfortruth
04-04-2009, 02:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
The polling data suggusts that the vast majority of Afghans do not share your positive view of the Taliban.

I remember Robert Fisk saying when he returned to Afghanistan after the Taliban took over and a store keeper said to him, with regard to the primitivism and barbarism of the Taliban, "What can you expect, all they have ever known in a refugee camp, they want to turn the whole world into a refugee camp".
What polls? How many people did they ask were they all even Muslim or communist? Keep making up facts to justify your murder.

primitivism and barbarism of the Taliban

The last I checked Mullah Omar and the Taliban came in power by killing bunch child rapist. As far as people abusing women that was the Afgan culture nothing to do with the Taliban. Even in parts controlled by Nato and Afgan government abuse agiasnt women is very high.
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Zahida
04-04-2009, 04:45 PM
[QUOTE=Dawud_uk;1119603]:sl:

:sl: Brother i disagree this CHILD is scarred for life even if her identity is not known........... She knows and Allah knows what you do not and neither do I.............. If Shariah Law is to be applied then it MUST also be applied to the thousands of women who walk around in swat with their heads uncovered............ Islam demands this of women also.......Swat is a beautiful place i have been there, which is totally irrelevant...........:w:







she may be in pain but this will not leave perminent damage, only wound her pride and make her unable to sleep on her back for a week or two, if she learns from her mistake and keeps away from her sister's husbands then there is no reason to suppose it will happen again to her.
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wth1257
04-04-2009, 06:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
What polls? How many people did they ask were they all even Muslim or communist? Keep making up facts to justify your murder.

primitivism and barbarism of the Taliban

The last I checked Mullah Omar and the Taliban came in power by killing bunch child rapist. As far as people abusing women that was the Afgan culture nothing to do with the Taliban. Even in parts controlled by Nato and Afgan government abuse agiasnt women is very high.
I wasn't aware that I had murdered someone.

That's correct with regards to the Taliban, at least in part. The external powers who coldly used the Afghan people to act as a foil to Russian imperialism and the abandoned them bear a lot of guilt as well. That the suffering of Afghan women has continued under the NATO resence does not mean somehow the abuse by the Taliban did not occur. With regards to barbarism I am not simply refering to their treatment of women but their larger activities as well, such as their ethnic clensing of the Hazaras and Shia Muslims.

You can deney what the Taliban did and what they are all you wish but this sort of perverse revisionism just helps people like Robert Spencer his ilk .
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Thinker
04-04-2009, 07:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zahida
:sl: Was just wondering of any of you have seen the news and the coverage of the seventeen year old girl being thrashed on suspected Adultery and your views on this.

This happened in Swat in Pakistan and there is a horrible video on TV where the brother is holding her down as she is being thrashed..............and filmed by some sick geek......................imsad:w:
But isn't that sharia law, didn't we have a whole thread on this where everybody voted that they wanted to live under sharia law?
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Zahida
04-04-2009, 11:23 PM
:sl:If we are to live by Shariah Law then it should be pracised properly, i am no expert but i know that this is wrong............:w:
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
But isn't that sharia law, didn't we have a whole thread on this where everybody voted that they wanted to live under sharia law?
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Questfortruth
04-04-2009, 11:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
I wasn't aware that I had murdered someone.

That's correct with regards to the Taliban, at least in part. The external powers who coldly used the Afghan people to act as a foil to Russian imperialism and the abandoned them bear a lot of guilt as well. That the suffering of Afghan women has continued under the NATO resence does not mean somehow the abuse by the Taliban did not occur. With regards to barbarism I am not simply refering to their treatment of women but their larger activities as well, such as their ethnic clensing of the Hazaras and Shia Muslims.

You can deney what the Taliban did and what they are all you wish but this sort of perverse revisionism just helps people like Robert Spencer his ilk .
I am not here to please that ape Robert Spencer. Ofcourse, Abuse took place under the Taliban abuse takes place every where in the world. My point is that it is the Afgan culture not the government. There is so much a government can do to prevent abuse. I don't know to much about the Taliban but I did read unbiased reports from Muslims and non muslims alike who reported great work done by the Taliban. If there was abuse agiasnt women or the weak I reasure everyone I would take no part in it personally and would stand agiasnt it even if my own life was taken away. But I refuse to believe CNN, Fox News, Al Jazeera, Arab news, ARY, Geo and all the secular news outlets around the world. They all seem to have the same goal to demonize any brother with beard and to make it seem as sisters who cover up are dirty.

"I wasn't aware that I had murdered someone."

To defend someones murder is murder.
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Questfortruth
04-04-2009, 11:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zahida
:sl:If we are to live by Shariah Law then it should be pracised properly, i am no expert but i know that this is wrong............:w:
You are agiasnt flogging?


I find that word so annoying for some reason "Thrashing" flogging would be better suited.
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alcurad
04-05-2009, 01:22 AM
Questfortruth, truly secular news outlets are bound to be more unbiased at that, but it is true that the culture there allows abuse, not any government particularly.
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Questfortruth
04-05-2009, 02:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
Questfortruth, truly secular news outlets are bound to be more unbiased at that, but it is true that the culture there allows abuse, not any government particularly.
Wrong! Secular media hates Shariah they do not want implementation of shariah because they feel it is backward. Truly, brother you don't know the secular and their agenda.
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wth1257
04-05-2009, 02:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
I am not here to please that ape Robert Spencer.[
That's not your intent but you, and individuals who tow your line do help him and his little minions. I don't mean that as some sort of attack againt you, I don't know you and have no problem with you, but individuals who stick to your line, which is contrary to what actually occured under the Taliban, help the smear campaign againt Islam.

Ofcourse, Abuse took place under the Taliban abuse takes place every where in the world. My point is that it is the Afgan culture not the government. There is so much a government can do to prevent abuse. I don't know to much about the Taliban but I did read unbiased reports from Muslims and non muslims alike who reported great work done by the Taliban. If there was abuse agiasnt women or the weak I reasure everyone I would take no part in it personally and would stand agiasnt it even if my own life was taken away. But I refuse to believe CNN, Fox News, Al Jazeera, Arab news, ARY, Geo and all the secular news outlets around the world. They all seem to have the same goal to demonize any brother with beard and to make it seem as sisters who cover up are dirty.

"I wasn't aware that I had murdered someone."

To defend someones murder is murder.
Anyone would do well to be skeptical of coporate media, particularly with regards to foreign events, but that does not mean one can just a-priori reject everything they have without cause.

Whose murder have I defended? You seem to be more subject to that charge seeing as you defend the Taliban, or direct the blame elsewhere for their activities, after their barbarism towards Shia Muslims.
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alcurad
04-05-2009, 03:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
Wrong! Secular media hates Shariah they do not want implementation of shariah because they feel it is backward. Truly, brother you don't know the secular and their agenda.
you are wrong yourself at that, I said 'truly' secular, not the ones who pretend to be, naturally any channel that claims to be biased will be biased, no?
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waji
04-05-2009, 10:14 AM
:sl:

First of all let me say one thing don't be emotional

The way they did it was according to Quran, see in the quran by yourself
Sura Nur 24, ayaah 02
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication― flog each of them with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. " Yousuf Ali Translation

Yes there are doubts about the judgement of Taliban
and here in Pakistan every TV channel has it's own story

1. Some said she went out with her husband's father.

2. Some said she came out alone.

3. Some said the unknown man was seen coming out of her house.

4. Some said the Taliban forced her to marry a Taliban which she refused.

so nothing is clear here also and when nothing is clear how can we and you all say that its was right or wrong.

May Allah Guide us All
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Zahida
04-05-2009, 11:14 AM
:sl: Yes Questforth in this particular case i am because the girl is still innocent and nothing has been proved there is no evidence just speculation.............. Why humiliate the child in front of everyone and why in the name of Allah why film it?????????:w:
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
You are agiasnt flogging?


I find that word so annoying for some reason "Thrashing" flogging would be better suited.
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Dawud_uk
04-05-2009, 11:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zahida
:sl: Yes Questforth in this particular case i am because the girl is still innocent and nothing has been proved there is no evidence just speculation.............. Why humiliate the child in front of everyone and why in the name of Allah why film it?????????:w:
:sl:

although it is from a kuffar news source, i did read previously that they had had a trial based on shariah, and she is not a child or i doubt it very much at 17.
Reply

chacha_jalebi
04-05-2009, 12:13 PM
K it was apprantly based on sharia???

Where are the four witnesses? Was the man flogged? Tbh the Taliban that are in swat have lost the plot big time!
Reply

Dawud_uk
04-05-2009, 12:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
K it was apprantly based on sharia???

Where are the four witnesses? Was the man flogged? Tbh the Taliban that are in swat have lost the plot big time!
:sl:

IF it was a shariah trial, the judge would have needed to meet the witnesses not you personally.

and once again, the news sources differ but some do mention the man was also flogged.

:sl:
Reply

Zahida
04-05-2009, 01:09 PM
:sl: So brother why wasn't the flogging of the man shown alongside the flogging of the girl????? I don't disrespect you or your views on this. Everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to express them. I feel the whole thing was morally an unjustice to the girl involved...........:w::bump1:
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
:sl:

IF it was a shariah trial, the judge would have needed to meet the witnesses not you personally.

and once again, the news sources differ but some do mention the man was also flogged.

:sl:
Reply

chacha_jalebi
04-05-2009, 01:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
:sl:

IF it was a shariah trial, the judge would have needed to meet the witnesses not you personally.

and once again, the news sources differ but some do mention the man was also flogged.

:sl:
talkin bout defensive:p

It don't say no where that the "judge" saw witnesses!

One thin with this case, was even Pakistanin western sources covered the story differntly! So no one really knows the 100% truth innay! But watever it is, the taliban in swat need to sort themselfs out!
Reply

Zahida
04-05-2009, 02:49 PM
:sl:HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well done Chacha............ I am your no1 fan!!!!!:w::bump1:
Reply

Dawud_uk
04-05-2009, 06:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zahida
:sl: So brother why wasn't the flogging of the man shown alongside the flogging of the girl????? I don't disrespect you or your views on this. Everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to express them. I feel the whole thing was morally an unjustice to the girl involved...........:w::bump1:
it was originally, i saw this video a week or two before most people on sky news i think, showed the flogging of several men also, some for fornication, one for homosexual offenses and this woman.

the section of the video relating to the woman was taken off and played by itself when someone realised they could use it to run the old 'islam oppressing women' story again and everyone else ran with it, the story becomming a little worse each time it is told.
Reply

Zahida
04-05-2009, 07:31 PM
:sl: will check and see if i can find the other videos .......... Thankyou i was not aware that they had also been shown i have only seen the video of this girl................:w::bump1:
Reply

Zafran
04-05-2009, 09:58 PM
salaam

This could be FAKE

http://www.gulfnews.com/world/Pakistan/10301597.html

"Swat Taliban Spokesman Muslim Khan echoed his sentiments, claiming the tape was the handiwork of pro-West organisations."

Intresting

peace
Reply

Zahida
04-05-2009, 10:57 PM
:sl: Hmmmmmmmm that younirls screams wer definately not a figment of my imagination.......... i can hear them now.............

I did find the videos where the men were thrashed also..............imsad

What is the world coming to?? Today there were suicide bombings in Chikwaal.............

Ya Allah have Mercy on us........Ameen.................
Reply

Dawud_uk
04-06-2009, 12:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zahida
:sl: Hmmmmmmmm that younirls screams wer definately not a figment of my imagination.......... i can hear them now.............

I did find the videos where the men were thrashed also..............imsad

What is the world coming to?? Today there were suicide bombings in Chikwaal.............

Ya Allah have Mercy on us........Ameen.................
:sl:

i am assuming given you are muslim if they had a shariah trial and were found guilty you wouldnt have a problem with them being flogged for it?

:sl:
Reply

Zahida
04-06-2009, 09:12 AM
:sl:Yes brothei am Muslim. Shariah Law is something i would agree with if it was carried out appropriately and in the correct manner........... If it was right to do this where does it say that it should be filmed??? I am sorry i don't think you understand what i am trying to say..........:w::bump1:
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K.Venugopal
04-06-2009, 09:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by elee
What is "thrashing"? stoning?
if so it's terrible.. i don't know how some people don't fear Allah when doing things like that. Prophet(pbuh) clearly says 4 witneses, or woman's confession are needed.. it doesn't say "guilty until proven innocent".
I understand in the case of rape 4 witnesses are required; the victim's statement is not enough. Is this correct?
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K.Venugopal
04-06-2009, 09:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zahida
:sl:Yes brothei am Muslim. Shariah Law is something i would agree with if it was carried out appropriately and in the correct manner........... If it was right to do this where does it say that it should be filmed??? I am sorry i don't think you understand what i am trying to say..........:w::bump1:
But there was no video at the time Shariah Laws were written.
Reply

aamirsaab
04-06-2009, 10:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
I understand in the case of rape 4 witnesses are required; the victim's statement is not enough. Is this correct?
WRONG. Victim's statement IS enough on rape charge in sharia.

format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
But there was no video at the time Shariah Laws were written.
Don't matter. Principle of sharia is to create justice and peace in society. Evidence in any form (such as video or voice recordings) can be used in a sharia court. Evidence is evidence.
Reply

Dawud_uk
04-06-2009, 11:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zahida
:sl:Yes brothei am Muslim. Shariah Law is something i would agree with if it was carried out appropriately and in the correct manner........... If it was right to do this where does it say that it should be filmed??? I am sorry i don't think you understand what i am trying to say..........:w::bump1:
:sl:

i do, i just dont hold it as something which would cause me to condemn them out of hand without looking into the matter in greater detail first. at the end of the day they are trying to bring back the shariah, so we should support them where we can.

now let me come at this from a slightly different angle so you can see where i am coming from...

who is better and who is worse, the one who prays inperfectly or the one who doesnt bother to pray, infact this 2nd person doesnt even consider his salaah to be an obligation.

shariah is an obligation, this is why although you might be correct on filming it, on the other hand it causes me to love my brothers and sisters in swat even more for their efforts to stuggle in the path of Allah to make Allah's law most supreme, even when they make mistakes as non of us are perfect and why i hate those who struggle against it and fight it.
Reply

Dawud_uk
04-06-2009, 11:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
WRONG. Victim's statement IS enough on rape charge in sharia.


Don't matter. Principle of sharia is to create justice and peace in society. Evidence in any form (such as video or voice recordings) can be used in a sharia court. Evidence is evidence.
assalaamu alaykum,

in the shariah 4 witnesses or a confession from the rapist are required, however a man can be convicted on lesser evidence of hiraba (taking something using force or threat of force) which can be used to convict someone who attacks a woman as a man is almost always stronger than the woman.
Reply

Zahida
04-06-2009, 01:33 PM
:sl: Good point................:bump1::w:
format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
But there was no video at the time Shariah Laws were written.
Reply

Zahida
04-06-2009, 01:37 PM
:sl: I respect your views and opinion brother......... I still disagree with the filming though and the showing of it............. How many people are affected by the showing of this video Islam is a peaceful religion the showing of the video has been shown worldwide Islam is not portrayed as peaceful........

That is my strongest opinion that the video should NOT have been shown and this matter could have been kept in Swat and amongst the people who reside there...............:w::D
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
:sl:

i do, i just dont hold it as something which would cause me to condemn them out of hand without looking into the matter in greater detail first. at the end of the day they are trying to bring back the shariah, so we should support them where we can.

now let me come at this from a slightly different angle so you can see where i am coming from...

who is better and who is worse, the one who prays inperfectly or the one who doesnt bother to pray, infact this 2nd person doesnt even consider his salaah to be an obligation.

shariah is an obligation, this is why although you might be correct on filming it, on the other hand it causes me to love my brothers and sisters in swat even more for their efforts to stuggle in the path of Allah to make Allah's law most supreme, even when they make mistakes as non of us are perfect and why i hate those who struggle against it and fight it.
Reply

buddy1
04-06-2009, 02:02 PM
I watched, I heaved, I turned off, disgusting, Absolutely disgusting and if i found someone doing that to my daughter, or my son for that matter, there would be a problem, a very serious problem, that makes me angry, so very very very angry! :(
Reply

Zahida
04-06-2009, 02:17 PM
:sl: I know what you mean i think i have let my emotions as a mother come into this! I felt physically sick and did not sleep the night i watched the video all i could hear were screams!!!!!!!!!!!:w::bump1:
format_quote Originally Posted by buddy1
I watched, I heaved, I turned off, disgusting, Absolutely disgusting and if i found someone doing that to my daughter, or my son for that matter, there would be a problem, a very serious problem, that makes me angry, so very very very angry! :(
Reply

wth1257
04-06-2009, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

in the shariah 4 witnesses or a confession from the rapist are required, however a man can be convicted on lesser evidence of hiraba (taking something using force or threat of force) which can be used to convict someone who attacks a woman as a man is almost always stronger than the woman.
An unmarried woman is pregnant. She claims she was raped but the man denies it and there are no whitnesses. Is she guilty of fornication?
Reply

buddy1
04-06-2009, 02:20 PM
me too, but even as a non mother, my sister just watched it and she said that if her daughter committed adultery, beating her would not be a way of getting around it, it doesnt hide what she did, it just brutally abuses her. where are her rights as a women. SO big question now, what if it was the other way round, if he had commited the adultery, what would have got!!?
Reply

Zahida
04-06-2009, 02:20 PM
:sl: Yes if there are no witnessess..................:bump1::w:
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
An unmarried woman is pregnant. She claims she was raped but the man denies it and there are no whitnesses. Is she guilty of fornication?
Reply

crayon
04-06-2009, 02:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

in the shariah 4 witnesses or a confession from the rapist are required, however a man can be convicted on lesser evidence of hiraba (taking something using force or threat of force) which can be used to convict someone who attacks a woman as a man is almost always stronger than the woman.
Hmmm, is this matter agreed upon by all scholars?
Because I've heard otherwise, here, and in other places as well:

Are Raped Women Asked to Bring Four Witnesses?
Reply

Questfortruth
04-06-2009, 03:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
An unmarried woman is pregnant. She claims she was raped but the man denies it and there are no whitnesses. Is she guilty of fornication?
This very topic has been discussed many times on this forum. There is a hadeeth that a women woke up next to a man denied that she ever knew the men was next to her. So she was not punished for that sin.
Reply

Questfortruth
04-06-2009, 03:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
I understand in the case of rape 4 witnesses are required; the victim's statement is not enough. Is this correct?
Dont they bury the women alive when her husband dies in Hinduism?
Reply

buddy1
04-06-2009, 03:51 PM
The Commission of Sati (Prevention) Act of 1987 Part I, Section 2(c) defines Sati as:

The burning or burying alive of – (i) any widow along with the body of her deceased husband or any other relative or with any article, object or thing associated with the husband or such relative; or (ii) any woman along with the body of any of her relatives, irrespective of whether such burning or burying is claimed to be voluntary on the part of the widow or the women or other-wise[6]

The act of sati is said to exist voluntarily; from the existing accounts, many of these acts do indeed occur voluntarily. The act may have been expected of widows in some communities, and the extent to which social pressures or expectations constitute compulsion has been much debated in modern times. However, there were also instances where the wish of the widow to commit sati was not welcomed by others, and where efforts were made to prevent the death.[7]

Traditionally, a person's funeral would have occurred within a day of the death, requiring decisions about sati to be made by that time. When the husband died elsewhere, the widow might still die by immolation at a later date.

Sati often emphasized the marriage between the widow and her deceased husband. For instance, rather than mourning clothes, the to-be sati was often dressed in marriage robes or other finery. In the preliminaries of the related act of Jauhar, both the husbands and wives have been known to dress in their marriage clothes and re-enact their wedding ritual, before going to their separate deaths.

Accounts describe numerous variants in the sati ritual. The majority of accounts describe the woman seated or lying down on the funeral pyre beside her dead husband. Many other accounts describe women walking or jumping into the flames after the fire had been lit,[8] and some describe women seating themselves on the funeral pyre and then lighting it themselves.[9]

Some written instructions for the ritual exist. For instance, the Yallajeeyam provides detailed instructions about who may commit sati, cleansing for the sati, positioning, attire, and other ritual aspects.[10]
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^..sTr!vEr..^
04-06-2009, 05:43 PM
the news of this girl has been proved to be false ...
Reply

Zahida
04-06-2009, 06:42 PM
:sl: which bit???? The bit where she is lying on the floor writhing in pain ......... Which part is false???????/:w::bump1:
Reply

AabiruSabeel
04-06-2009, 07:15 PM
:sl:

The reality of Girl-Flogging in SWAT

This is what I found on one of the forums. It looks like a well researched article. Unfortunately due to some reasons I can not post the direct link. Googling might help.

format_quote Originally Posted by MK on SF
The reality of Girl-Flogging in SWAT

Asslamo Allaikum,

Excellent Article from Orriya Maqbool Khan (Urdu)

Summary (in English):

1) Even the most corrupt, inept and incapable police detective (in Pakistan) doesn’t file an official report, gathers his men and storms a location on the basis of a blurry video! But this is precisely what people have been doing, accusing and counter-accusing, speculating and condemning based on a grainy-blurry video!

2) I have spent 10 years out of my 25 year working Career grappling with crime (and its investigation) and the last 19 years of my life have been spent writing TV plays, shooting them and long part of my work is spent on the editing table going through shot-images frame-by-frame and I have spent my talent on this video and gone through it frame-by-frame and whoever has shot it has employed wicked and evil trickery by intentionally not showing any buildings, roads or landmarks (so the location can’t be identified) and not focused on faces (so people can’t be identified)…The faces of the perpetrators are not covered YET they are scared for their lives and NEVER ONCE look directly at the Camera.

3) It is DEAD OBVIOUS that the voices are dubbed later as there is no background noise (from the crowd) and you often hear the sound BEFORE the lash actually hits the girl

4) I believe the final editing may have been left out because the girl simply stands as soon as the lashing STOPS…Its like a director saying “CUT” and the Heroine breaks into a laughter after doing a scene in which she was crying (a moment ago).

5) The language being spoken and the dialect is NOT from SWAT!

6) Syed Muhammad Javed was my colleague in the Civil-Service Academy and he is now the commissioner in Malakand Agency (*) and he says “I swear by Allah that this incident has NOT occurred in SWAT”

(*) Added by MK: The person being mentioned is a Pakistani Government official and not part of or connected with Taliban.

7) I am ashamed to part of Media which has circulated this video without investigation about its Authenticity.

The only oppressed one out of the whole incident is the Qur’aan which people have been reviling, abusing and criticising. Shame on such people and their wicked tongues who speak out WITHOUT ascertaining the truth!

MK's response to some Muslims:

Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

If you can’t read the whole thing….just read the first part…

Girl Flogging in Pakistan: Part I

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7980899.stm

The video of the young girl being flogged in Pakistan has instantly captured the imagination of people (both Muslims and Non-Muslims) around the world. It has provoked a disgusting response amongst both Muslims and Non-Muslims and looking at it (matter of factly), it’s very bizarre to say the least.

This video throws two separate challenges simultaneously:

1) Firstly, to Muslims (themselves) as to they don’t know how to react to this! Is this really Sunnah? Is this really what my religion (of Islam) teaches me?

2) Secondly, how do Muslims respond to Non-Muslims over this?

To the Muslims: It’s an act of Kuf’r to criticise the Islamic Shariah in anyway no matter how repugnant, barbaric, shameful or backwards it may seem. Fortunately, there is NOTHING in Islam which is any of those, its often our perception or propaganda or incorrect facts which may lead us to such conclusions. It is ALWAYS SAFE to simply say I don’t know the true facts so I consign this matter to Allah (SWT) and let Allah (SWT) be the judge. There is no doubt that there is a lot of pressure on us (Muslims in the West) to explain our religion, to compromise, to change, to adapt but ULTIMATELY it is a test from Allah (SWT). We have to STICK to the true Islam and pass the test, that’s the whole point! Bending Islam defeats the purpose…It will neither help us in this world nor in the next.

Response to the Non-Muslims: If you don’t know the ins and out of a situation its easy and simple to just say to Non-Muslims, “Mate! I live in UK and I have no idea what’s going in SWAT (Pakistan) and forgive me if I don’t accept the account given in the Media. BBC as an organisation has been PROVEN to use misleading information, false reporting, rig their phone-in programs etc, and therefore their credibility is suspect. I believe that just like it’s a mistake to put Christianity on trial because of the actions of the American soldiers in Abu-Ghuraib or because of Hitler’s oppression of Jews its incorrect to put Islam on trial because of the actions of some. I don’t know the facts to even speculate intelligently, let alone give you my opinion”

It may sound like a cop-out but it will save your Eeman!

Girl Flogging in Pakistan: Part II

This BBC reports makes many false claims and before I get to them lets discuss the top three (3) key players of South-Asia:

1) Taliban: They are fighting the Americans, NATO and others inside Afghanistan. Their leader is Mulla Omar



2) TTP (Tehreek-e-Taliban-e-Pakistan): Pakistan Army is fighting them in the border areas e.g. tribal areas of Pakistan i.e. Bajor Agency, Khurrum Agency etc. Their leader is Baitullah Mahsud is an Indian trained Terrorist. TTP is supported, backed, armed, trained and financed by Indian RAW. Bodies have been recovered from the tribal areas and upon examination found to be uncircumcised, their weapons are highly sophisticated and they have the ability to JAM Pakistan Army communication equipment (US Supplied). All in all these are no simple Pushtuns trying to implement Shariah.

http://www.brasstacks.pk/pdf/BrassTa...licy_Paper.pdf

No doubt that there must be some sincere Pakistanees/Muslims who are within TTP. Also there is a lot of anger in Pakistani tribal belts because of what going on in Afghanistan and US constantly bombing Pakistani villages and killing civilians but as a whole the activities of TTP are suspect.

http://www.pro-pakistan.com/2009/04/...eon-e-panetta/

The latest “joke” is that Baitullah Mahsud (of TTP) called a news conference in Islamabad and claimed the shooting in New York done by a 41 year old Vietnamese EX-IBM employee!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7983463.stm

Most of the vile Terrorist activities which are reported in the West are done by TTP and not Taliban (of Afghanistan).

3) TNSM (Tehreek-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Muhammdi): SWAT is a beautiful tourist area of Pakistan which enjoyed Semi-Autonomous rule in India and the British let the state of SWAT run its affairs under Shariah. In 1947 the state of SWAT joined Pakistan but continued to run its affairs and courts under the Shariah law. In 1969 Pakistan dissolved the state of SWAT and for the first time Pakistani (or rather British based Civil Code and Courts) started work in SWAT. Being used to FREE, FAIR and FAST justice for centuries the people of SWAT have NEVER accepted the Pakistani system of courts (with its inherent corruption and scandals) and have always demanded their old system (e.g. Shariah Courts). They claim that Pakistani government usurped their rights which even the British had protected under their rule.

People of SWAT have been asking for their “Shariah courts” back since 1969!

TNSM is a movement formed by Sufi Muhammad (of SWAT) and they have been asking for Shariah in SWAT since 1992. In 2001 when the Americans invaded Afghanistan Sufi Muhammad tried to wage Jihad against the Americans and as result his organisation (with a local concern e.g. Shariah in SWAT) was banned as a Terrorist organisation and he was imprisoned. Please note that TNSM has been running BEFORE Taliban and BEFORE US invasion of Afghanistan!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi_Muhammad

In Sufi Muhammad’s absence his son-in-law (Maulana Fazlullah) took over and formed an alliance with TTP (see 2 above) and clashes started with the Pakistan Army. Hundreds of dead later, Pakistan released Sufi Muhammad from prison and within weeks he negotiated with the Pakistan government and Pakistan Army retreated.

Most of the vile Terrorist activities which are reported in the West are done by Maulana Fazlullah & TTP and neither Taliban (of Afghanistan) nor TNSM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulana_Fazlullah

Pakistani government agreed to the demands of “Shariah courts” in SWAT and overwhelming majority of people in SWAT are now happy to have a ceasefire.

Before reading Part III, ask yourself a simple question! Why would a group and its people who have been asking for something for decades (e.g. “Shariah courts”) want to jeopardise their cause after they have paid such a price for it?

Girl Flogging in Pakistan: Part III

1) First and foremost notice the BBC deception in their “edited reporting” of events in two different languages.

a) The English version shows a truncated video of 53 seconds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7980899.stm

b) The Urdu version shows the longer video which is 2 minutes and 4 seconds!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/multimedia...flogging.shtml

Most of the clues are off course in the longer version of the video clip.

2) BBC erroneously continues to report TNSM as Taliban e.g. the media is trying to create a negative figure in people’s hearts and minds, e.g.:

a) Person wearing Shalwar Kameez

b) Long Beard

c) Turban

d) Carrying weapons

a,b,c & d must be Taliban and must be ignorant, backwards and barbaric! Most people in NWFP fit all four (4) categories above and are therefore automatically condemned (in global news).

`And most importantly anyone looking like above must by default be Taliban and Islamic Shariah must be put on trial

3) TNSM have already condemned this video as FAKE!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2..._fake_na.shtml

In the Press-conference TNSM spokesmen “Muslim Khan” stated that the only women flogging in SWAT was administered to an older women who had an illicit relationship with her father-in-law and 16 lashes were administrated by “ FOUR (4) MALE CHILDREN” in an abandoned building!

The four (4) children were presented to the general public and given a chance to answer questions.

Notice that the BBC has reported this in Urdu but failed to translate and carry this in English!

4) Anyone who subscribes to the views of “Publicly flogging people” also believes that Photography and Video is HARAM! So why would they let someone film this story?

TNSM spokesmen “Muslim Khan” conducts his press conferences with his face covered because they believe that photography is HARAM and for the first time when this video broke, he actually uncovered his face in a News conference!

5) Watch the video and ask yourself, “Are these decent images which someone supposedly trying to implement Shariah will broadcast”?

6) The girl in the video gets lashed 34-36 times! I don’t know any punishment in Islam which is 34-36 lashes? Notice in three (3) that TNSM lashed an adult women 16 times for having an affair with her father-in-law and this teenage girl gets lashed 34-36 times? How??? What???

7) The girl gets lashed 34-36 times and then gets up instantly and starts walking straight! Most people won’t be able to get up and walk for days after getting 36 lashes

8) People of SWAT are generally of short stature and fair skinned, these guys don’t look like from SWAT at all!

9) The dialect of PUSHTO is not from SWAT

10) At 1 minute 4 seconds the guys who is flogging SLAPS AND HITS the guy who is holding the girl down! Ask yourself is that part of Islamic Shariah. Note: BBC have skipped this scene!

11) While slapping and hitting he tells the guy to hold the girl right and CURSES HIM, The curse is in Punjabi (not in Pushtu) and the whole accent is distinctly from Hazray? Ask yourself would anyone trying to implement Shariah Curse?

12) Lastly, THE SMOKING GUN! Why? What will TNSM win by advertising this video?This hurts their cause rather then serve it!

P.S: I don’t know Pushto so I am relying on someone from SWAT to tell me about 9 & 11. The video is properly made (and not something which someone has filmed on their mobile) as you will notice the guy towards the feet of the girl constantly looking into the Camera. I am also told that when the girl gets up and walks towards the Camera the guys shouts at her for walking towards the Camera (in Pushto) so can't be a candid Camera sort of thing!
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