PDA

View Full Version : Do you want the Death penalty for Drunk Drivers?



جوري
04-04-2009, 06:02 PM
Who have caused the demise of others?

In a short span of time, I have lost colleagues, known of distant friends and just yesterday a mother of two passed away due to the sheer negligence of these narcissistic criminals who apparently think the world ought to revolve around their desires and needs-- now I haven't done any formal studies on how many die daily to drunk drivers, but was thinking of starting a large petition and sending it to my congresswo/man with enough signatures on it, to make this punishable to the highest degree... I really don't see why they can take a life or two in the blink of an eye and then end up in prison or with a mere slap on the wrist from tax payers money...

I think this is a very serious crime, and it makes me cringe, when I see two people who have struggled to make it as fine citizens and pillars of their community to be snuffed out, or a woman shipping her husband's body on her honey moon while she is three weeks pregnant, or a mother with two young children slaughtered, or a young lady going out to celebrate Eid with friends extinguished, a flower not yet in full bloom.

It isn't fair, but what isn't even more fair is letting these criminals amongst us.. if anyone deserves death it is them...

I don't and wouldn't get any joy whatsoever seeing anyone put to death, but I really want justice for people, I'd like it to be swift without alot of emotion in the same fashion they take the lives of others swiftly without alot of emotions..

so pls vote so I can see if this is worth taking it all the way where it will get more attention..

Jazkoum Allah khyran

:w:
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Khayal
04-04-2009, 06:27 PM
:sl:

I voted "NO".
No, I don't think so, bcz If I am in pain, (whatever the reason is) I don't want to see others to be in pain, even if they are your worst enemy, you shouldn't take revenge of a person's death by killing the person who is responsible. Allaah [SWT] wrote our fate, so the person's death was written, and carried out by this mean. I might be wrong, but I'm not a person who takes revenge.

:w:
Reply

Yanal
04-04-2009, 07:01 PM
No just a fine and a few days in prison because as sister Khayal said,they are drunk and not fully in their senses so they don't deserve much like death. Instead of death being a punishment for drunk driers why not ban alcholol?
Reply

جوري
04-04-2009, 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by Khayal
:sl:

I voted "NO".
No, I don't think so, bcz If I am in pain, (whatever the reason is) I don't want to see others to be in pain, even if they are your worst enemy, you shouldn't take revenge of a person's death by killing the person who is responsible. Allaah [SWT] wrote our fate, so the person's death was written, and carried out by this mean. I might be wrong, but I'm not a person who takes revenge.

:w:
:sl: my dearest of all sisters:

Death penalty is never about 'revenge' it is about Justice!..
Every society has its criminals. even the human body, when you have an infection, most people don't usually think to themselves, I want an antibiotic or an antiviral or anti-fungal, or anti-neoplastic that only sends this disease for rehabilitation for a few days, you usually want a disease out of your system for good.. If you don't overcome it, it will overcome you..

I am not trying t impose my opinion on you, but I think the leniency of society is what sends many criminals to this path again and again, and it is really unfortunate because in such a brief period of time we have lost single productive units of society yet sent out on the streets again, again folks that are beyond rehabilitation if anything that bleed society out of money and of upstanding members...

I am a little disappointed but I think it is because this so far has been theoretical to many people and not a cold hard reality.

:w:
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Eric H
04-05-2009, 12:19 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Gossamer skye;

My neighbour's son was killed in a stupid and reckless driving prank, the culprit did not even go to prison. He was just fined and banned from driving for a couple of years.

After the sentence was passed my neighbour started to drink heavily and wanted to beat this guy senseless, because justice had not been given to him.

I cannot comprehend fully how my neighbour felt at the death of his son, but I talked to him about forgiveness. Shortly after my neighbour sold his house and moved a couple of hundred miles away. He feared that at some point in the future he might have a moment of weakness and take revenge.

In similar circumstances I would pray that I would also have the strength to forgive.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and merciful God

Eric
Reply

*charisma*
04-05-2009, 12:49 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

I agree, there should be higher punishments for those who choose to drink and drive.

In my state, there's numbers to call that provide a FREE designated driver for drunk people. If they're too drunk to drive, they could also call a taxi cab. There's no reason to drive intoxicated, especially when there are other alternatives. It's ridiculous.

fi aman allah
w'salaam
Reply

Khayal
04-05-2009, 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
:sl: my dearest of all sisters:

Death penalty is never about 'revenge' it is about Justice!..
Every society has its criminals. even the human body, when you have an infection, most people don't usually think to themselves, I want an antibiotic or an antiviral or anti-fungal, or anti-neoplastic that only sends this disease for rehabilitation for a few days, you usually want a disease out of your system for good.. If you don't overcome it, it will overcome you..

I am not trying t impose my opinion on you, but I think the leniency of society is what sends many criminals to this path again and again, and it is really unfortunate because in such a brief period of time we have lost single productive units of society yet sent out on the streets again, again folks that are beyond rehabilitation if anything that bleed society out of money and of upstanding members...

I am a little disappointed but I think it is because this so far has been theoretical to many people and not a cold hard reality.

:w:

:sl: My beloved Sister

As I said, maybe I am wrong, thats what my nature is, :embarrass and bcz of this most of the time people take advantage of me. imsad

:w:
Reply

alcurad
04-05-2009, 01:18 AM
if it was done unintentionally but the act that caused it was not supposed to be done in the first place, it shouldn't be death rather imprisonment for life maybe, a heavy fine, but I wouldn't go to the death penalty, still it might some merit, since how do we know the person was indeed that drunk in the first place.
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
since how do we know the person was indeed that drunk in the first place.
Blood alcohol level that is how we know...
They won't ban alcohol because people really need it in their system and are entitled to drink.. well others are entitled to their lifetime..
I don't see a point whatsoever in having to sponsor three meals for an alcoholic and a roof over his head in prison while their victims are cold six feet under with whatever else they have left behind of family and children!~

I can see from the response here though this probably won't be implemented in my lifetime.. and it is a sad shame that folks seem to feel more for the perpetrators than the victims. IT IS A CHOICE TO DRIVE DRUNK!
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by Khayal

:sl: My beloved Sister

As I said, maybe I am wrong, thats what my nature is, :embarrass and bcz of this most of the time people take advantage of me. imsad

:w:
imsad

Jazaki Allah khyran for your response sis.. you are a lovely person!

:w:
Reply

kwolney01
04-05-2009, 01:45 AM
No, but the punishment needs to be a lot more harsh. I would make sure that person would never be able to drive again. I think the government should take their driving privileges away FOREVER! I think America is too easy on drunk drivers, I've heard of other countries that when this happens the person can never drive again.

I agree with you sister, but I don't know if that would be the best way to fix things. These people need help with their addiction. No, it's not a choice to drink and drive but making them go to rehab and change their life is a lot better. I think the driver would be hunted forever with the fact they hit and killed someone because they were drinking and driving. And this, inshAllah would make them change their life.
Reply

_PakistaN_
04-05-2009, 03:27 AM
I think one Month in jail should be enough.
Reply

nazish
04-05-2009, 03:38 AM
:sl:


The spirit and essence of the Islamic Law in its severe penalty is to save lives, stop corruption, disallow mischief, serve justice, build a safer society

:w:
Reply

alcurad
04-05-2009, 03:51 AM
try looking at it this way:killing them will not be accepted, since many people here want to get drunk anyway, not to mention it is not proportionate, killing someone unintentionally is not punishable by death, a doctor who kills patient by misanalysis is not killed.
now the drunk driver is not like that since he was already breaking the law, but then he didn't do it while in a full state of awareness, so I'd think the harshest people could go to is maybe banning from driving, maybe very long imprisonment. the situation right now is not ideal of course, but as long as drinking is allowed such things will happen.
Reply

S_87
04-05-2009, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by _PakistaN_
I think one Month in jail should be enough.
one month in jail for killing someone :?

if a person is too drunk- they dont drive. if they have killed someone then they should definitely be dealt with harshly.

Alhumdulillah for Islam
Reply

Karina
04-05-2009, 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by _PakistaN_
I think one Month in jail should be enough.
:uuh:

I voted undecided, as I too feel very strongly indeed about people who take the decision to drive a vehicle under the influence of alcohol - ANY amount - they do not have to be "drunk" to have their reaction time slowed.

In England the penalties are laughable too. And I resent the fact that we have not yet set a complete ban on alchohol before driving a vehicle. We are still legally able to have one alcoholic drink before driving. :mad: I definitely feel that the punishment should be much harsher, perhaps not death, but we are far too soft on drink-drivers.

It also makes my blood boil to hear people worry more about getting CAUGHT, than the fact they will be more likely to knock down a small child because they fancied a beer before they started their journey. Getting caught should not be their primary concern!
Reply

SouljahOfAllah
04-05-2009, 12:44 PM
Yep, they shoultn be drink diving anywho.
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
try looking at it this way:killing them will not be accepted, since many people here want to get drunk anyway, not to mention it is not proportionate, killing someone unintentionally is not punishable by death, a doctor who kills patient by misanalysis is not killed.
now the drunk driver is not like that since he was already breaking the law, but then he didn't do it while in a full state of awareness, so I'd think the harshest people could go to is maybe banning from driving, maybe very long imprisonment. the situation right now is not ideal of course, but as long as drinking is allowed such things will happen.

I can't follow this analogy for several reasons:

1- The number one rule as a physician is 'First do no harm' --
2-You never as a physician reach a decision on diagnosis by yourself.. there is an entire team of pathologists, radiologists, residents and interns, other specialists all working together, in critical cases you do your best.. say someone comes in with what appears to all as a heart attack but in fact suffering an aortic dissection and dies as a result, it really isn't your fault as a physician, I understand that there are distinguishing features and you must do your best but trust me you are not always given the margin of times in which to use all the sophisticated equipment as your disposal.. you make quick split second decisions based on amongst other things, what is most likely the presentation.. and even with, you can have a revocation of your license, you obviously have to answer to an entire staff on an M&M (morbidity and mortality) and your insurance sky rockets if you in fact survive the previous as well eager families who desire to sue you!
3- The patient is already consenting to be under your care unless completely unconscious in which you assume consent.. but there is a medical ethics to this.. are you telling me that a drunk driver takes consent from the folks he is about to snuff out?
4- The patient when presenting is already in bad shape.. can we compare happy people minding their own business only to lose it all to a drunkard's negligence to someone who presents to the ER asking for your help?


Is a drunk driver 'unaware' of what he/she is doing.. as I stated prior, it is a decision to drink and it is a decision to drive drunk...

To the fellow who said one month.. Sob7an Allah.. perhaps putting a face to the victims might make this more real for you?



Griffin family of Parkville, MD, five members of which were killed by a drunk driver in a horrific accident on I-280 in Toledo Sunday night.


amongst many many many others.
I have already lost two friends, and on my flight to the middle east met a Saudi woman supposedly on her honey moon and three weeks pregnant shipping her husband's body, because he was murdered by a drunk driver...

If you think they should get one month, or they are unaware of what they are doing, then I pray to Allah swt that you not lose people in such a senseless manner!

:w:
Reply

aamirsaab
04-05-2009, 04:36 PM
Only if alcohol itself is banned, then I would support death penalty for drunk drivers. Simply because I think prevention is better overall.

Alcohol is the real killer - get rid of it and there won't be a problem of drunk drivers (also would minimise other drunk related crimes too)
Reply

Ar-RaYYan
04-05-2009, 05:33 PM
I am for death penalty for certain crimes but when it comes to drunk drivers maybe not. Before deciding whether the person should get a death penalty its best to look at the intention. For example a murder who intentionally kills a person should receive a death penalty. A drunk driver may have chosen to drive while they were drunk but he/she's intention was not to kill someone. I think definetly they should receive a harsher punishment maybe imprisonment for life and have their driving lesson taking away and heavy fine. Also they do have to live with the fact that they have killed someone with the rest of their life that is a punishment in itself.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 05:43 PM
No.
Seeing the pictures of people you killed along some jailtime and a lenghty driving ban is enough.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Is a drunk driver 'unaware' of what he/she is doing.. as I stated prior, it is a decision to drink and it is a decision to drive drunk...
It would be impossible to determine whether the person driving was well aware of his state prior to stepping into the vehicle.
Some people think they're sober when in fact they're completely wasted. And some people simply don't think whether they should or shouldn't drive, they just go.

A practical solution would be a blood alchohol level testing device built in every new car that would prevent a driver from starting up his vehicle if the results showed more than 0.5mmolL^(-1) running in his veins.
The system would have to prevent codrivers from taking the test.
Reply

Karina
04-05-2009, 06:05 PM
A simple solution would be to ban everyone from driving after drinking alcohol. That's what taxis are for.

More fool the person who thinks they're 100% in control of their vehicle after a drink.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by Karina
A simple solution would be to ban everyone from driving after drinking alcohol. That's what taxis are for.
It's already banned.
Reply

Karina
04-05-2009, 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
A practical solution would be a blood alchohol level testing device built in every new car that would prevent a driver from starting up his vehicle if the results showed more than 0.5mmolL^(-1) running in his veins.
The system would have to prevent codrivers from taking the test.
Oh and this is a great idea too - obviously there will be those who think they're above the law and this would deinitely be a solution.
Reply

Karina
04-05-2009, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
It's already banned.
In England? Have I missed that one?! :embarrass

Maybe I haven't needed to take too much notice as I don't drink and drive myself.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Karina
In England? Have I missed that one?! :embarrass

Maybe I haven't needed to take too much notice as I don't drink and drive myself.
Of course it's banned, you can loose your license for driving drunk.
Reply

Cabdullahi
04-05-2009, 06:18 PM
is the death penalty applied to those who just drink alcohol?? the obvious answer is 'no'?......because the drinker can only remember and recollect consuming the alcoholic beverage anything after that is unknown to them.....for me its the substance that causes the real harm...it leaves the person in darkness and overshadowing unawarness but if the drinker just before accidentally killing the person was brought back to his/her awareness i am a 100% sure they would have resisted causing damage

but what about a mentally ill person killing someone...i am might be wrong but i think the death penatly still applies...so in a sense the mentally deranged person and the drunkard are similar because both are unaware....therefore we could say 'killer be killed'

and allah knows best........ps sorry to the thread starter ms ossamer
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by Abdullahii
is the death penalty applied to those who just drink alcohol?? the obvious answer is 'no'?......because the drinker can only remember and recollect consuming the alcoholic beverage anything after that is unknown to them.....for me its the substance that causes the real harm...it leaves the person in darkness and overshadowing unawarness but if the drinker just before accidentally killing the person was brought back to his/her awareness i am a 100% sure they would have resisted causing damage

but what about a mentally ill person killing someone...i am might be wrong but i think the death penatly still applies...so in a sense the mentally deranged person and the drunkard are similar because both are unaware....therefore we could say 'killer be killed'

and allah knows best........ps sorry to the thread starter ms ossamer
Islamic law executes the mentally ill?
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
It would be impossible to determine whether the person driving was well aware of his state prior to stepping into the vehicle.
Some people think they're sober when in fact they're completely wasted. And some people simply don't think whether they should or shouldn't drive, they just go.

A practical solution would be a blood alchohol level testing device built in every new car that would prevent a driver from starting up his vehicle if the results showed more than 0.5mmolL^(-1) running in his veins.
The system would have to prevent codrivers from taking the test.
That is so funny.. It doesn't matter which state you think yourself in, I don't take allergy medications or others that 'May cause drowsiness' for instance and decide, hey I feel ok enough to drive. I do the responsible thing.. If I really need to be some place than I either let go of the meds, or take public transportation. The effects of alcohol is already known, It isn't a guess as to whether or not it will waste you... IT WILL DO IT TO YOU, FURTHER ALCOHOL FOLLOWs ZERO ORDER KINETICS. once it is in your system there is nothing you can do to get it out of your plasma until it is cleared out.. no coffee no antidote no cold shower.. So in fact it should be thought of as pre-meditated murder not chance accident, because that is exactly what it is-- You thought about it and you chose to drive anyway!
Reply

Cabdullahi
04-05-2009, 06:22 PM
aye! chill out hasselhoff i said i am not sure okay!
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Abdullahii
aye! chill out hasselhoff i said i am not sure okay!
لَيْسَ عَلَى الْأَعْمَى حَرَجٌ وَلَا عَلَى الْأَعْرَجِ حَرَجٌ وَلَا عَلَى الْمَرِيضِ حَرَجٌ وَمَن يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ يُدْخِلْهُ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ يُعَذِّبْهُ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا {17}
[Yusufali 48:17] No blame is there on the blind, nor is there blame on the lame, nor on one ill ---

Do you equate someone who is born into a condition they have no hand in to someone who chose to get drunk and off driving?

:w:
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
That is so funny.. It doesn't matter which state you think yourself in, I don't take allergy medications or others that 'May cause drowsiness' for instance and decide, hey I feel ok enough to drive. I do the responsible thing.. If I really need to be some place than I either let go of the meds, or take public transportation. The effects of alcohol is already known, It isn't a guess as to whether or not it will waste you... IT WILL DO IT TO YOU, FURTHER ALCOHOL FOLLOWs ZERO ORDER KINETICS. once it is in your system there is nothing you can do to get it out of your plasma until it is cleared out.. no coffee no antidote no cold shower.. So in fact it should be thought of as pre-meditated murder not chance accident, because that is exactly what it is-- You thought about it and you chose to drive anyway!
As I said it would be simply impossible to determine whether the person was aware whether he or she shouldnt have gotten into the car or not.
Do you also support the death penatly for people who cause accidents under the influence of medications?
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 06:43 PM
So why only excetute the ones who actually killed someone? Why not everyone driving with an excessive amount of alcohol? After all each one is a premeditated murderer.
Reply

Cabdullahi
04-05-2009, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

?????? ????? ?????????? ?????? ????? ????? ??????????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????????? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ??? ????????? ???????????? ????? ????????? ??????????? ???????? ???????? {17}

Do you equate someone who is born into a condition they have no hand in to someone who chose to get drunk and off driving?

:w:
ms ossamer first and foremost i wasnt sure about the mentally ill person's situation regarding the death penalty.....so because of my lack of knowledge ,i think your question would be an invalid one because i dont equate the sick person with the careless...some say drunkards can't help it because of the addiction but there is a way they can avoid murder or atleast one type of murder...if they know they cant restrict themselves to just one drink then they should turn up to the pub on foot....

nice try to sabotage me! :(
Reply

Trumble
04-05-2009, 06:58 PM
No. I appreciate the sentiment and the anger, but I'm totally opposed to the death penalty for any offence. IMHO it drags society down to the level of the criminal, and I do see it as being as much about revenge as about justice.
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
As I said it would be simply impossible to determine whether the person was aware whether he or she shouldnt have gotten into the car or not.
Do you also support the death penatly for people who cause accidents under the influence of medications?
If they were warned before hand that the medication causes severe drowsiness to the point of drunkenness and they disregarded medical orders and caused the death of another then they should be yes. It makes no sense for someone to pop a zolpidem and then operate a machine. People on medications are more responsible than alcoholics unless they are simply suicidal and homicidal, further I have already told you there are about three substances that follow zero order kinetics, and the only one of them that causes drowsiness (amongst other things) is alcohol!

I am not following, the whether it isn't clear if they should have gotten into a car.. what does that mean? Are you not conscious of drinking before you imbue?
Invalids shouldn't be driving, conscious or not!

To me personally, I don't want my tax money to put a roof over their head and provide them with a meal plan. I think justice should be swift and simple--
Reply

Muezzin
04-05-2009, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
No. I appreciate the sentiment and the anger, but I'm totally opposed to the death penalty for any offence. IMHO it drags society down to the level of the criminal, and I do see it as being as much about revenge as about justice.
There's a school of thought says revenge is the foundation of justice... :playing:

But anyway, I vote 'no'. It's not a cold-blooded murder, it's rank stupidity - but intoxicated drivers lack the requisite mens rea. I do think they should be locked up and the proverbial key should be proverbially thrown away. Into a proverb.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
If they were warned before hand that the medication causes severe drowsiness to the point of drunkenness and they disregarded medical orders and caused the death of another then they should be yes. It makes no sense for someone to pop a zolpidem and then operate a machine. People on medications are more responsible than alcoholics unless they are simply suicidal and homicidal, further I have already told you there are about three substances that follow zero order kinetics, and the only one of them that causes drowsiness (amongst other things) is alcohol!

I am not following, the whether it isn't clear if they should have gotten into a car.. what does that mean? Are you not conscious of drinking before you imbue?
Invalids shouldn't be driving, conscious or not!

To me personally, I don't want my tax money to put a roof over their head and provide them with a meal plan. I think justice should be swift and simple--
What I'm saying is that many of them were well aware that they shouldn't drive and didn't want to, but after drinking, they simply went into a car without thinking.
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
No. I appreciate the sentiment and the anger, but I'm totally opposed to the death penalty for any offence. IMHO it drags society down to the level of the criminal, and I do see it as being as much about revenge as about justice.
If someone killed your son or your wife, you'd honestly be ok with a part of your hard earned money going to put a roof over their head and provide them with meals or a small slap on the wrist and off they go after a few months without even a revocation of their license?
it is almost like insult to injury...
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 07:44 PM
I am disappointed in the poll here -- I guess this sort of lightening of penalty and excusing from consequence (under the guise of 'unaware') is what gives many drunkards a carte blanche to go out there and murder folks on daily basis...
Reply

جوري
04-05-2009, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
What I'm saying is that many of them were well aware that they shouldn't drive and didn't want to, but after drinking, they simply went into a car without thinking.
It isn't an inalienable right to drive, it is a privilege!
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-05-2009, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
It isn't an inalienable right to drive, it is a privilege!
Exactly and drunk drivers who caused an accident, regardless of human casualties, should be taken their licence away and banned from ever getting it back.
Reply

Woodrow
04-06-2009, 03:15 AM
I voted undecided for one reason only. that reason being some states do not have the death penalty. But, I do believe that a drunk driver who kills should get the highest legal punishment provided for any other premeditated murderer.

Yes, I did say premeditated. A person does not accidently get drunk. You have to decide you are going to drink, and if you drink, you are 100% responsible for your action, no matter how incapacited the alcohol makes you. Incapacitated by choice is the same as planning to do something illegal, immoral or stupid. In either case the drunk needs to be held 100% accountable for all actions done while drunk.
Reply

Muhaba
04-06-2009, 03:52 AM
I voted undecided because i don't know the islamic ruling. I think it would be the same as for unintentional murder? you might want to ask an alim.
Reply

جوري
04-06-2009, 03:56 AM
It is haram to drink in Islam so it will be a double whammy when there is also blood on ones hand I assume under shari3a..
I am talking about our current state, since they won't ban alcohol, the death penalty I believe would make folks think twice about getting into that car drunk..

and Allah swt knows best


:w:
Reply

Karina
04-06-2009, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
It's already banned.
Clarification: Whatsthepoint - Of course I realise alcohol is banned, but in England, certainly until recently, we were legally allowed to consume a small amount of alcohol before driving a car. A small glass of wine or one beer for example, providing it doesn't take you "over the limit". My point was that I think alcohol should not be drunk before driving AT ALL, no matter what, end of story and there should be zero tollerance.
PS Sorry to butt in, but while everyone's still been talking about this, I've been asleep here! :)
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-06-2009, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
It is haram to drink in Islam so it will be a double whammy when there is also blood on ones hand I assume under shari3a..
I am talking about our current state, since they won't ban alcohol, the death penalty I believe would make folks think twice about getting into that car drunk..

and Allah swt knows best


:w:
I don't think the death penalty would do much to prevent drunk driving, it doesn't even detter people capable of thinking straight.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-06-2009, 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by Karina
Clarification: Whatsthepoint - Of course I realise alcohol is banned, but in England, certainly until recently, we were legally allowed to consume a small amount of alcohol before driving a car. A small glass of wine or one beer for example, providing it doesn't take you "over the limit". My point was that I think alcohol should not be drunk before driving AT ALL, no matter what, end of story and there should be zero tollerance.
PS Sorry to butt in, but while everyone's still been talking about this, I've been asleep here! :)
I disagree, you can't ban driving after a glass of wine or two, you'd have to take a cab to dine out, that's stupid.
Reply

Bint-Al-Islam
04-06-2009, 08:35 PM
I said YES! Everyone knows you should not drink while driving. They are not stupid. Its dangerous and 99% that u will kill some1 while driving.. Drunk Driver should get death penalty. They kill innocent ppl they deserve to get killed too.. No Comment
Reply

Trumble
04-06-2009, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
If someone killed your son or your wife, you'd honestly be ok with a part of your hard earned money going to put a roof over their head and provide them with meals or a small slap on the wrist and off they go after a few months without even a revocation of their license?
it is almost like insult to injury...
Firstly, in those circumstances, I doubt I've give a d**n where a small slice of my taxes was going. Secondly, that's a totally false dichotomy; there are, of course, plenty of options between execution and "a small slap on the wrist and off they go after a few months without even a revocation of their license"!!
Reply

جوري
04-06-2009, 09:05 PM
The current laws as it stands at least to me are a 'small slap on the wrist' and you see the same individuals again and again as repeat offenders without a considerable gap between crimes, that is how fast they get off ....
The problem I think is that most or at least 42% here fail to see this as a serious crime with horrific ramification (and I know it is difficult to empathize unless one experiences it first hand) ... but that is how fast people are orphaned or widowed etc, while the other party comes off the car staggering-- lives are ruined in the blink of an eye!
Reply

جوري
04-06-2009, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Bint-Al-Islam
. Drunk Driver should get death penalty. They kill innocent ppl they deserve to get killed too..
I agree!
Reply

Eric H
04-09-2009, 05:06 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Bint-Al-Islam;
Drunk Driver should get death penalty
Where does God come into all this? God knows the hearts and minds of all of us, and it is only God who can act justly.

Is God powerless? Should we fear the death sentence more than we fear God?

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
Reply

Vito
04-09-2009, 03:12 PM
The majority of people who actually go out and kill intentionally don't even get the death penalty. I doubt they would be quick to make that kind of change for drunk drivers.
Reply

جوري
04-09-2009, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Bint-Al-Islam;


Where does God come into all this? God knows the hearts and minds of all of us, and it is only God who can act justly.

Is God powerless? Should we fear the death sentence more than we fear God?

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric

Greetings Eric

God left us a code of conduct to carry out in this life.
I'll use the analogy of me asking you to house sit and take care of my cat while I attend to bigger business. I provide you with all that you need, from food/shelter/payment as well the instructions on how to take care of my cat. But when I get back, not only do I find my house in shambles, my cat dead, but you go on so far as to call me powerless and negligent -- whom do you honestly suppose the blame should lie with?

We are entrusted with many things and one of them is to carry out justice when harm is done.

all the best
Reply

Karina
04-13-2009, 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I disagree, you can't ban driving after a glass of wine or two, you'd have to take a cab to dine out, that's stupid.
No it's not. Why can't you eat out without drinking alcohol?

And if you do drink alcohol, what's wrong with getting a taxi home?

That's what I do and it certainly doesn't cause me any hardship. I'd rather pay for a cab than have the death of a (eg.) small child on my conscience for the rest of my days, just because my senses were dulled from that one glass of wine or that one beer and I couldn't stop in time.

You can't seriously tell me that a "glass of wine or two" doesn't affect you in any way?
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-13-2009, 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by Karina
No it's not. Why can't you eat out without drinking alcohol?

And if you do drink alcohol, what's wrong with getting a taxi home?

That's what I do and it certainly doesn't cause me any hardship. I'd rather pay for a cab than have the death of a (eg.) small child on my conscience for the rest of my days, just because my senses were dulled from that one glass of wine or that one beer and I couldn't stop in time.

You can't seriously tell me that a "glass of wine or two" doesn't affect you in any way?
I seriously doubt anyone having drunk a glass of wine or two has caused an accident as a direct result of the wine.
Reply

Eric H
04-13-2009, 04:34 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Gossamer skye;
God left us a code of conduct to carry out in this life.
Agreed, and I am sure it means not doing anything that could harm others, so drinking and driving would be wrong.

But

This is a tough question to answer, I could live with myself if my son was killed by a drunk driver. But if my son was that drunk driver and killed an innocent bystander I would struggle to live with that knowledge.

I can only try and understand the lessons of forgiveness that Jesus taught. If my son was killed by a drunk driver I should try and forgive the driver. I should even pray for the healing of that driver, knowing that we all have to stand before God at some point.

We shall be judged in the way we judge others, if we can learn to forgive, then maybe God will forgive me the wrongs I have done.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God

Eric
Reply

جوري
04-13-2009, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Gossamer skye;


Agreed, and I am sure it means not doing anything that could harm others, so drinking and driving would be wrong.

But

This is a tough question to answer, I could live with myself if my son was killed by a drunk driver. But if my son was that drunk driver and killed an innocent bystander I would struggle to live with that knowledge.

I can only try and understand the lessons of forgiveness that Jesus taught. If my son was killed by a drunk driver I should try and forgive the driver. I should even pray for the healing of that driver, knowing that we all have to stand before God at some point.

We shall be judged in the way we judge others, if we can learn to forgive, then maybe God will forgive me the wrongs I have done.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God

Eric
forgiveness is a completely different issue from justice. I think people are jaded between the two. punishment for a sin committed is an expiation from it. I don't know what the Islamic jurisprudence is on something such as this given that drinking is forbidden, however most drunk drivers don't think on your level I don't even believe they understand what (altruism) is like a cancer in the body you can't coax it to co-exist!.. having lost two colleagues just last month, and reading about the drunk drivers history and license suspensions and such I fear the only thing motivating him is fear of punishment rather actual remorse!

It is this laxity and disregard to human life that leads us to sit and watch as hundreds succumb to snipers and rapists everyday benumbed and complacent about it all!

peace
Reply

burdenofbeing
04-14-2009, 12:08 AM
I think it should simply be the same penalty for "involuntary manslaughter"
Reply

greenshirt
04-17-2009, 04:53 AM
in our religion in a true shariah, if somebody killed someone, the family would have the choice on whether or not that person should be put to death. but if they forgive them, the crowd is supposed to cheer and it is supposed to be a good thing.

therefore i think we should do it like that. if a drunk driver kills someone the family should be able to decide.

and of course this sounds very harsh. but it will be a detrimental to people who drink and contemplate driving. maybe they will think twice before driving if they know that they can face such major punishments.

but a part of me tells me it wouldnt be detrimental to people who drink and contemplate driving. there are already some pretty harsh punishments. also many drunk drivers who have caused people to die are very regretful and hurt that they killed someone. certainly after realizing they have killed someone they probably never will drink and drive again. but at the time when they were under the influence, they probably werent thinking of it. or they never thought it would happen with them.

so i dont know. i like the laws of america as they are now. but in a muslim society i think perhaps the punishment should be harsher.

but i have been lucky in that ive never had a friend die in such an incident. maybe it would be different if i did.
Reply

Eric H
04-17-2009, 06:45 PM
Greetings and peace be with you greenshirt;
in our religion in a true shariah, if somebody killed someone, the family would have the choice on whether or not that person should be put to death. but if they forgive them, the crowd is supposed to cheer and it is supposed to be a good thing.
Are the crowd supposed to cheer if the family want the guilty person put to death, is it better to forgive or condemn?

In the spirit of praying to a loving and merciful God.

Eric
Reply

Eric H
04-17-2009, 07:01 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Gossamer skye;
having lost two colleagues just last month, and reading about the drunk drivers history and license suspensions and such I fear the only thing motivating him is fear of punishment rather actual remorse!
I am so sorry to hear about your two colleagues, but I do not believe that any kind of human justice or punishment can prevent such things happening.

Fear of God is the start of wisdom, and most of us do not fear God.

After the death of a loved one, justice is rarely seen to be fair, we become angry and it eats away at us. Anger is like picking up a burning coal with the intentions of throwing it at the person we are angry with; the person who gets burned the most is ourselves.

Forgiveness is a means of overcoming the anger that burns away in our heart and mind.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God

Eric
Reply

جوري
04-18-2009, 01:50 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Gossamer skye;

I am so sorry to hear about your two colleagues, but I do not believe that any kind of human justice or punishment can prevent such things happening.

Fear of God is the start of wisdom, and most of us do not fear God.

After the death of a loved one, justice is rarely seen to be fair, we become angry and it eats away at us. Anger is like picking up a burning coal with the intentions of throwing it at the person we are angry with; the person who gets burned the most is ourselves.

Forgiveness is a means of overcoming the anger that burns away in our heart and mind.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God

Eric

Greetings Eric..

It is easy indeed to speak of love and forgiveness when the casualties are nameless and negligible. Two young doctors investing their years and their life to be pillars of their communities, snuffed literally in a minute, while a repeat offender leeches off society and gets off with a mere slap on the wrist because you and apparently many others equate justice with lack of forgiveness...

can we say insult to injury?


all the best
Reply

GreyKode
04-18-2009, 01:59 AM
Fear of God is the start of wisdom, and most of us do not fear God.
I find christians very fond of insisting that we all don't fear God, we all love to sin... etc.
This type of mentality will only encourage a person to always find excuses for his sins.
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-18-2009, 02:09 AM
I am moraly opposed to the death penalty.
Reply

جوري
04-18-2009, 02:13 AM
I am morally opposed to people who murder others in cold blood and rely on the laxity of the justice system to get them a roof over their head and three square meals a day plus health care that most average hard working people don't even get the privilege of having from tax payers money and then letting them out on the streets un-rehabilitated to commit the same crimes over and over!
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-18-2009, 02:17 AM
Great point :(
Reply

Eric H
04-18-2009, 04:33 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Gossamer skye;
It is easy indeed to speak of love and forgiveness when the casualties are nameless and negligible.
I have been both angry and forgiving after injustice has happened to me; beyond a doubt forgiving the person is the lighter burden to carry.

Two young doctors investing their years and their life to be pillars of their communities, snuffed literally in a minute, while a repeat offender leeches off society and gets off with a mere slap on the wrist because you and apparently many others equate justice with lack of forgiveness...
Everything is in the hands of God, and God will judge in a far greater way than any judge here on Earth.

I have gone through this question a number of times in my own mind, if a drunk driver kills any member of my family, it would be better for me that I forgive them. This is regardless of whether they are sorry or not, and regardless as to whether the law gives them a light sentence.

Man’s brand of justice is not fulfilling, the world is a mess, it is better to leave justice to God. There is also the need to pray for the guilty person, for their healing, we are told to pray for our enemies.

In the spirit of praying to live in the fear of God.

Eric
Reply

جوري
04-18-2009, 04:44 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
it is better to leave justice to God. There is also the need to pray for the guilty person, for their healing, we are told to pray for our enemies.

In the spirit of praying to live in the fear of God.

Eric
Greetings Eric,

Again, God has given us a system to implement worldly justice, as well it is an expiation of sin so even criminals have a chance at Godly forgiveness in the after life after they have paid their dues!

Your example is like saying, If God wanted to stop hunger, he'd feed all those hungry people, well in fact he has delegated that task to us on this planet as evidenced from the Quran ..

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ أَنفِقُوا مِمَّا رَزَقَكُمْ اللَّهُ قَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَنُطْعِمُ مَن لَّوْ يَشَاء اللَّهُ أَطْعَمَهُ إِنْ أَنتُمْ إِلَّا فِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ {47}
[Yusufali 36:47] And when they are told, "Spend ye of (the bounties) with which Allah has provided you," the Unbelievers say to those who believe: "Shall we then feed those whom, if Allah had so willed, He would have fed, (Himself)?- Ye are in nothing but manifest error."
please carry that analogy through for everything, including implementation of justice for a serious crime, we are not here to fulfill liberal whims, we are here to enforce God's law.. now that said, I am not saying it is Islamic Jurisprudence to impose the death penalty in such a case, in all reality I don't know what the penalty would be, but I do know that Alcohol is forbidden in Islam and with that token I'd hope that the highest punishment would be implemented under an Islamic shari'a law.. for now I will write my local congresswoman for tougher laws on drunk drivers and will get as many signatures as I can get.

Maybe if a humiliating public example is made of these thoughtless animals, others will think twice before they go all stoned to murder innocent lives!
Reply

saba muslimah
04-18-2009, 04:51 AM
Again, God has given us a system to implement worldly justice, as well it is an expiation of sin so even criminals have a chance at Godly forgiveness in the after life after they have paid their dues!
hhmmm Wat can i say..????
true..!!!
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-18-2009, 08:31 PM
How many people hear commenting have been drunk before? Really like its hard to say about it with out knowing what its like.
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-18-2009, 08:39 PM
Poll have you been drunk. http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...een-drunk.html
Reply

جوري
04-19-2009, 01:00 AM
http://www.islamicboard.com/1120096-post30.html
Reply

Malaikah
04-19-2009, 02:08 AM
Seeing as how I've never been drunk before, I don't know what it is like, or if a person really can't understand that they shouldn't be driving.

But this my view. Two days ago a friend told me her and her boyfriend where taking public transport to a 21st birthday party. I was confused because she usually drives places since she has her own car. I asked her why she isn't driving. She said because she will be drinking.

She planned ahead, she realised that she shouldn't be driving back! So what if she did decide to take her car?? Then what?? Would her plan have been to drive home drunk? It is while sober that she made her choice, and she removed any possibility of her driving back by not taking her car. If a person knows they will be too drunk to make the choice not to drive then they should prepare for that!
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-19-2009, 02:11 AM
I think there is an issue with the law. If you even have one beer you should not be allowed to drive. Here in America you can have certain ammount of alchol. The problem is you can not always know when you are drunk.
Reply

ardianto
04-19-2009, 02:35 PM
My country Indonesia, has a problem with drunkens, but we have no problem with drunk drivers. That causes by a reason, 'Almost all of Indonesian drunkens are poor men, they can't drive and they have no cars'.
Reply

greenshirt
04-20-2009, 05:37 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you greenshirt;

Are the crowd supposed to cheer if the family want the guilty person put to death, is it better to forgive or condemn?

In the spirit of praying to a loving and merciful God.

Eric
hello and asalaamu alaikum to you as well,

the crowd is supposed to cheer if the person is forgiven(ie, not punished by death.)

i guess it could be said that it is better to forgive someone than to carry out the punishment. but there is no harm in either choice.
Reply

Eric H
04-20-2009, 10:57 AM
Greetings and peace be with you greenshirt;

i guess it could be said that it is better to forgive someone than to carry out the punishment. but there is no harm in either choice.
I find that very encouraging that it is better to forgive, but it always seems the harder path because the culprit appears to walk free.

I like the saying of Mahatma Gandhi.....
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God

Eric
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-16-2015, 07:51 AM
  2. Replies: 49
    Last Post: 03-16-2010, 05:47 PM
  3. Replies: 261
    Last Post: 01-29-2008, 04:40 AM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-10-2006, 05:45 PM
  5. Replies: 44
    Last Post: 04-01-2006, 04:53 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!