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seeker-of-light
04-11-2009, 04:05 PM
ok i have posted this before in advice and support but it is awaiting approval and i dont have much time before i have to get offline so i need some advice right now, i am a muslim revert living in america and my family is catholic my mom has accomodated my request to not eat ham for the dinner and instead eat turkey but they still want me to celebrate with them even though i have already explained i cant. what should i do???
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Yanal
04-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Tell your mother that I am going to a friends house to celebrate. If this doesn't help go to google and type the keywords of your question.
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Danah
04-11-2009, 04:27 PM
bump
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ardianto
04-11-2009, 04:40 PM
Tell your mother one more time. " Mom, I can't ".
If she still want you to celebrate, just go to your room and lock the door. Don't out of your room until celebration has over.
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seeker-of-light
04-11-2009, 04:46 PM
i cant do this unless i want to be grounded forever and told that i ruined holidays for them, i have to be considerate of my family but they also need to be considerate of me anyone have any other ideas?
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Güven
04-11-2009, 04:47 PM
what do you guys gonna do other than eating dinner with the family ?
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Ali.
04-11-2009, 04:49 PM
What do Easter Holiday celebrations consist of?
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seeker-of-light
04-11-2009, 04:51 PM
well my family wants to celebrate by having me and my brother do easter egg hunting and giving both of us lots of things in easter baskets on easter morning and go to church and then go to my extended family and have dinner there, will be ham there but my mom says i dont have to eat it
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Ali.
04-11-2009, 05:02 PM
So, hunting chocolate, going to Church, and eating.

I'd say the only thing worryable about there is the Church bit..

Could you convince your mother that Muslims go to Mosque not Church?
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seeker-of-light
04-11-2009, 05:05 PM
i have tried to convince my mom several times to not make me go to church but she insists that every week i go to church with her anyways, she will not ever let me go to the mosque though even though i asked her to let me go while they are at church...
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crayon
04-11-2009, 05:07 PM
Perhaps come to some sort of compromise? You'll go to the family dinner if you don't have to go to church or go easter egg hunting?

edit-oops, posted too late.
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Ali.
04-11-2009, 05:08 PM
Difficult situation..

How old are you? I mean, shouldn't your mother let you do as you please now?
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Güven
04-11-2009, 05:09 PM
Egg hunting!! we used to do that at school when I was a kid , it was fun... finding all that Chocolate eggs.

uhm ok so about the church, you should just stay at home and then go to the dinner.

she does know that you are a muslim now doesn't she, what about your dad or do you have any other relative that supports you about being a muslim?
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seeker-of-light
04-11-2009, 05:10 PM
i am 15 will be 16 in may, and no these are traditions my family has always done they want me to continue to do them with them, because they want us to be a strong family and to get along. but dont understand why i must celebrate their holidays as well, i guess it is because i have always before and then now i dont want to, easter is very important to my family. my mom is completly uncompromising...
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crayon
04-11-2009, 05:11 PM
Do they celebrate eid with you?
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Ali.
04-11-2009, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by seeker-of-light
i am 15 will be 16 in may, and no these are traditions my family has always done they want me to continue to do them with them, because they want us to be a strong family and to get along. but dont understand why i must celebrate their holidays as well, i guess it is because i have always before and then now i dont want to, easter is very important to my family. my mom is completly uncompromising...
Ahh still quite young masha'Allah.. hmm.. what if you sit down with you mother for a daughter-mother chat and explain to her in the most feminine, convincing way as possible?

I'm not quite sure, running out of options. :hmm:
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seeker-of-light
04-11-2009, 05:13 PM
no they dont...my family only celebrates catholic holidays and when i pointed out they wont celebrate my holidays but enforce theirs on me my mom just got mad at me....
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seeker-of-light
04-11-2009, 05:15 PM
yes i know everyone...it is difficult but i feel guilty of going against my religion if i celebrate easter along with them=s
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crayon
04-11-2009, 05:18 PM
Aww sis, I'm not sure what to tell you..:(
I guess if there's absolutely no way to get out of this, then hating it in your heart is enough.
"Whoever amongst you sees anything objectionable, let him change it with his hand, if he is not able, then with his tongue, and if he is not even able to do so, then with his heart, and the latter is the weakest form of faith."
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seeker-of-light
04-11-2009, 05:27 PM
no, my relatives are not muslim, my mom is accepting but she is not very helpful for me to follow my religion. they know, but they still want me to do the same things like always this is what she calls "family time"...
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Güven
04-11-2009, 05:27 PM
^exactly Crayon.

I think in this difficult situation, Intentions matter...

You could go to the church , and sit in there without doing nothing.
The "ceremony" orsomething doesn't take that long I guess.
So you should just bear with it.

Allah knows your Intentions , Allah is Most Forgiving.
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Cabdullahi
04-11-2009, 05:41 PM
NOOOOOO wait! dont eat the turkey........unless its been slaughtered in an islamic way ........and what i would say is call your mother over and talk to her in a polite manner........and dont eat the turkey!
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Whatsthepoint
04-12-2009, 12:01 PM
Islam commands respect to one's parents, so the only respectful thing you could have done was to attend the family dinner. You live in America, you're surrounded with kufr all the time, so I don't think 2 hours with your family would have done to much damage.
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crayon
04-12-2009, 12:10 PM
^Actually, the authority of God is greater than that of your parents. So you must obey your parents, except when they ask you to disobey Allah. This applies whether the parents are muslim or not. So only when they ask you to do something haram does it become permissible, and in fact obligatory, on you to disobey them.

"There is no obedience to the creation in disobedience to the Creator"
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Dawud_uk
04-14-2009, 05:21 AM
:sl:

sorry for the late reply but a late reply is better than no reply at all,

ok simply put you cannot go for several reasons.

first of all it is actually a matter of kufr akbar to take part in the religious celebration of the disbelievers, so xmas, easter, diwali etc are all kufr akbar to celebrate.

this is because as muslims we have to three fundemental principles we must understand here before deciding if it is allowed.

1. kufr bit taghoot.
kufr bit taghoot means declaring all systems, gods, faiths, philosophies, ways of life other than islam to be false. a taghoot is a false god, system of ideas etc. so laat was a taghoot, the trinity is a taghoot, democracy is a taghoot and everything that supports or goes towards it must be rejected.

and as muslims it is not enough to say here we only have to reject it in our heart, no our rejection is first through our limbs and then if that is not possible through the tongue and only if we are totally inable to act or speak do we say rejection in the heart is enough.

2. al wala wal bara.
another important concept, al wala is love for Allah's sake, loving what Allah loves. al bara is emnity for Allah's sake, hating and disliking what he likes.

so a muslim should try to avoid everything hated and disliked by Allah, should try to do that which is loved and liked by Allah. so which catagory does easter fall into? simple.

3. immitation of the kufr.
it is not permissable to immitate the kufr in matters distinctive to them, once again if taken too far this reaches the level of kufr akbar.

knowing these three points it is very clear easter is not permissable to you, even if it caused an argument, just talk back nicely with them, they are your parents but there is no obedience to the creation that is in disobedience to the creator.

and sister i know you are young, but i think just in case things go badly for you in the future i would talk to some muslim friends and their mothers and ask who can let you stop with them if you are ever thrown out, i hope this never happens to you, Allah willing but i have seen it many times dealing with new muslims so always have a backup plan so you are not forced into sleeping on the streets or other dangerous situations.

:sl:
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wth1257
04-14-2009, 05:39 AM
I don't understand the problem. I mean you can't eat Turkey yeah but the egg hunting is a secular aspect of Easter not a religious one. As for Mass is it a sin for you to go in the Church and observe with your family? In a Catholic Mass your participation of the event as a member of the community is usually manifested in partaking of the Eucharist. Obviously you can't do this given your Islamic faith but that shouldn't be a problem. I mean if your mother is a devout Catholic she would never force you to take the Eucharist when you are obviously not in a state of grace in the eyes of the Church.

In Baghdad Muslim ulema attended Christmass Mass as a show of Iraqi unity



So I mean would they have done that if it were a sin to simply be in the building while the event was occuring?
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wth1257
04-14-2009, 05:50 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
:sl:

sorry for the late reply but a late reply is better than no reply at all,

ok simply put you cannot go for several reasons.

first of all it is actually a matter of kufr akbar to take part in the religious celebration of the disbelievers, so xmas, easter, diwali etc are all kufr akbar to celebrate.

this is because as muslims we have to three fundemental principles we must understand here before deciding if it is allowed.

1. kufr bit taghoot.
kufr bit taghoot means declaring all systems, gods, faiths, philosophies, ways of life other than islam to be false. a taghoot is a false god, system of ideas etc. so laat was a taghoot, the trinity is a taghoot, democracy is a taghoot and everything that supports or goes towards it must be rejected.

and as muslims it is not enough to say here we only have to reject it in our heart, no our rejection is first through our limbs and then if that is not possible through the tongue and only if we are totally inable to act or speak do we say rejection in the heart is enough.

2. al wala wal bara.
another important concept, al wala is love for Allah's sake, loving what Allah loves. al bara is emnity for Allah's sake, hating and disliking what he likes.

so a muslim should try to avoid everything hated and disliked by Allah, should try to do that which is loved and liked by Allah. so which catagory does easter fall into? simple.

3. immitation of the kufr.
it is not permissable to immitate the kufr in matters distinctive to them, once again if taken too far this reaches the level of kufr akbar.

knowing these three points it is very clear easter is not permissable to you, even if it caused an argument, just talk back nicely with them, they are your parents but there is no obedience to the creation that is in disobedience to the creator.

and sister i know you are young, but i think just in case things go badly for you in the future i would talk to some muslim friends and their mothers and ask who can let you stop with them if you are ever thrown out, i hope this never happens to you, Allah willing but i have seen it many times dealing with new muslims so always have a backup plan so you are not forced into sleeping on the streets or other dangerous situations.

:sl:
I understand what you are saying but I don't know if it applies (and forgive me, I obviously don't know this as well as you all, arguing is how I understand a point). I don't see how being in a Church immitates Kufir. For example when the Ulema went into the Hagia Sophia to pronounce the Shahadah and convert it to a Mosque he was not immitating Kufir by entering the Church when it was still a Church. If it were raining and a Muslim dashed into the first ublic building they saw, which happened to be a Church while a Mass was being celebrated, they would not be immitating Kufir would they? If these two assumptions are correct (and I'm not saying they are, I could be totally off) then it would follow that being in a Church is perhapse a necessary but not sufficient constitutive action in immitating Kufir. It is constitutive of certian actions which do immitate Kufir but not in itself sufficient to become immitation.

I mean I don't see how simply observing a Mass is immitation. I understand joining in the prayers or taking communion but simply being in the building with one's family while a religious celebration is occuring? I mean if she just sits there or stands in the back and does not take communion it would be very clear that she was not participating in the events.
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جوري
04-14-2009, 05:51 AM
^^ umar ibn ilhtab RA accepted an invitation to the church of the holy sepulcher, but declined the invitation to pray there not because it is haram but because he didn't want Muslims to think it a common practice to take over churches..
be that as it may, that is different than participating in an Easter egg hunt, I fear it isn't even a 'people of the book practice' it is purely pagan, coinciding with 'sham en neseem' and the nwruz (spring solstice) to be honest I am not sure how much of Christianity is actually monotheistic in origin...

it is a tough call, I am not sure that even Christians should participate in such pagan practices as there is no religious meaning to them...
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wth1257
04-14-2009, 05:54 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
^^ umar ibn ilhtab RA accepted an invitation to the church of the holy sepulcher, but declined the invitation to pray there not because it is haram but because he didn't want Muslims to think it a common practice to take over churches..
be that as it may, that is different than participating in an Easter egg hunt, I fear it isn't even a 'people of the book practice' it is purely pagan, coinciding with 'sham en neseem' and the nwruz (spring solstice) to be honest I am not sure how much of Christianity is actually monotheistic in origin...

it is a tough call, I am not sure that even Christians should participate in such pagan practices as there is no religious meaning to them...
How is the easter egg hunt pagan?
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جوري
04-14-2009, 05:56 AM
Originally Posted by wth1257
How is the easter egg hunt pagan?
I just told you, that is what folks did and continue to do for 'sham en neseem', the better question should actually be, how is an egg hunt monotheistic-- where in any of the Abrahamic religions is this described or enforced or even given the nod of approval?

peace
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wth1257
04-14-2009, 06:01 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I just told you, that is what folks did and continue to do for 'sham en neseem', the better question should actually be, how is an egg hunt monotheistic-- where in any of the Abrahamic religions is this described or enforced or even given the nod of approval?

peace
wow, what do you know. I also found this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_...n_and_folklore


Sorry I missed it the first time. I just skimmed your post to be honest. I'm doing this kind of late at night, while doing homework :embarrass
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جوري
04-14-2009, 06:01 AM
You can read more about it here.. but I see you already have a thread on nowruz as I recommended above..

Egypt marks Sham el Naseem
The Egyptian people mark today Sham el Naseem feast, Spring Festival. Families went out to gardens and national parks since the early morning to celebrate this day.

The feast of Sham al-Naseem is one of the Pharaonic feasts. It is celebrated by all Egyptians, Muslims and Christians.

Pharaonic feasts were related to the astrological phenomena and their relation to nature and life. They celebrated the Spring Feast on a date determined by the Spring equinox. On that day, night and day are equal when the sun rises over Aries. It is on the 25th of Barmehat. It says in their holy book that they thought that this day marked the beginning of creation.



The Pharaohs called this feast the name of (Shamus Feast) which means the life resurrection. Then the name changed through time especially in the Coptic Age to the name (Sham). Then the word Naseem was added to refer to the arrival of spring.


The Pharaohs began to celebrate this feast officially on 2700 B.C by the ends of the Third Pharaoh dynasty. However, some historians claim that it was known in the Heliopolis feasts and at the time of sun worship.


It was, then, was adopted by the Christians. When Christianity entered Egypt, the feast accompanied the ancient Egyptians feast. It was celebrated the day after Easter. The Pharaohs were celebrating the first night of Sham al-Naseem with religious celebrations. With the sunrise, Sham -al-Naseem turned into a public feast in which all the people participated, even the Pharaoh and the highest officials.


Sham al-Naseem had special food, customs, and traditions which became characteristic of the celebration of the feast itself as it moved through different ages to recent time. Examples of the traditional food of this feast are like eggs, salted fish, onions, and lettuce. Many people both East and West, took many of the features of the original celebrations of Sham al-Naseem into their own spring festivities.



http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/EgyptOnline...0000000614.htm

I can tell you now that I grew up coloring eggs to join in the pagan festivities and my father used to be angry but he never forbade me from coloring eggs, he used to tell me that I am doing his health harm with the colors as a deterrent.. when I came in the U.S I naturally thought they too had sham en neseem not knowing at all that it held a different meaning for them..

most of these holidays are borrowed. Jesus never partook in egg coloring or hunting and neither did any other messenger!

peace
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wth1257
04-14-2009, 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
You can read more about it here.. but I see you already have a thread on nowruz as I recommended above..

Egypt marks Sham el Naseem
The Egyptian people mark today Sham el Naseem feast, Spring Festival. Families went out to gardens and national parks since the early morning to celebrate this day.

The feast of Sham al-Naseem is one of the Pharaonic feasts. It is celebrated by all Egyptians, Muslims and Christians.

Pharaonic feasts were related to the astrological phenomena and their relation to nature and life. They celebrated the Spring Feast on a date determined by the Spring equinox. On that day, night and day are equal when the sun rises over Aries. It is on the 25th of Barmehat. It says in their holy book that they thought that this day marked the beginning of creation.



The Pharaohs called this feast the name of (Shamus Feast) which means the life resurrection. Then the name changed through time especially in the Coptic Age to the name (Sham). Then the word Naseem was added to refer to the arrival of spring.


The Pharaohs began to celebrate this feast officially on 2700 B.C by the ends of the Third Pharaoh dynasty. However, some historians claim that it was known in the Heliopolis feasts and at the time of sun worship.


It was, then, was adopted by the Christians. When Christianity entered Egypt, the feast accompanied the ancient Egyptians feast. It was celebrated the day after Easter. The Pharaohs were celebrating the first night of Sham al-Naseem with religious celebrations. With the sunrise, Sham -al-Naseem turned into a public feast in which all the people participated, even the Pharaoh and the highest officials.


Sham al-Naseem had special food, customs, and traditions which became characteristic of the celebration of the feast itself as it moved through different ages to recent time. Examples of the traditional food of this feast are like eggs, salted fish, onions, and lettuce. Many people both East and West, took many of the features of the original celebrations of Sham al-Naseem into their own spring festivities.



http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/EgyptOnline...0000000614.htm

I can tell you now that I grew up coloring eggs to join in the pagan festivities and my father used to be angry but he never forbade me from coloring eggs, he used to tell me that I am doing his health harm with the colors as a deterrent.. when I came in the U.S I naturally thought they too had sham en neseem not knowing at all that it held a different meaning for them..

most of these holidays are borrowed. Jesus never partook in egg coloring or hunting and neither did any other messenger!

peace

hm, interesting.

I guess I always assumed the egg hunt was some Halmark invention like Mother's Day.
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جوري
04-14-2009, 06:09 AM
Originally Posted by wth1257
hm, interesting.

I guess I always assumed the egg hunt was some Halmark invention like Mother's Day.
no no for some reason people who spread Christianity didn't want to make the 'heathens' feel like they were giving up their traditions and age old wisdom so they incorporated all that stuff and gave it christian meaning. but it has no meaning least of which to Jesus himself whom they are allegedly celebrating with this..

I was guilty of this but I was no more than 4 or 5 yrs of age and my mother country for some reason was hammering in nationalism and these pagan rituals.. al7mdlilah that I now know better.. I know it seems harmless and my father was never the sort to force anything on us because he felt it might do the opposite, I really appreciate his wisdom given that I don't have that sort of resolve with my nieces and nephews..
but to get back to the topic.. I think the OP should ask her mother what this egg hunts signifies.. there is certainly no religious theme in it and all that candy will rot your teeth....

Allah swt knows best

peace
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Danah
04-14-2009, 10:06 AM
^ oh interesting! I didn't know that Sham annaseem in Egypt has a relation with Easter celebration

I just read here that its the next day after the Easter in Egypt
http://www.islamway.com/?iw_s=Articl...article_id=695
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Civilsed
04-14-2009, 11:10 AM
Easter is a pagen festival called ishtar it revolves arourd fertility hence the egg. Just educate them that this has nothing to do with Christiandom.

A bit like xmas where to you think the mistletoe comes in. Sunday, Newyear, etc... etc...
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burdenofbeing
04-14-2009, 04:23 PM
I think your mom thinks this is a "phase you are going through" and you'll eventually be back. and probably that's why she's keen on you not being separated too much.

What you are asked to do is not haraam. you can go to church, pick eggs, gather round with your family. your intent is pleasing your family, nothing wrong there. don't eat haram food and you're ok.
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Dawud_uk
04-14-2009, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
I think your mom thinks this is a "phase you are going through" and you'll eventually be back. and probably that's why she's keen on you not being separated too much.

What you are asked to do is not haraam. you can go to church, pick eggs, gather round with your family. your intent is pleasing your family, nothing wrong there. don't eat haram food and you're ok.
i am kinda curious what you base your ruling on?

it is forbidden to take part in any none islamic festivals, this includes easter.

it is forbidden to immitate the kufr, do you have any scholars to back up what you are saying or are you out of a good intention just giving naseehah without the knowledge to back it up?
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burdenofbeing
04-14-2009, 05:13 PM
I'm stating my opinion, I think I could find scholars to back me up. Imitating kufr is forbidden. As long as people don't think you are a kafir from your actions, imitation is permissable. If it were me, I would merely wear a t-shirt that says, I'm actually a muslim, and maybe wear a topi, then go with the flow.
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Dawud_uk
04-15-2009, 05:14 AM
Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
I'm stating my opinion, I think I could find scholars to back me up. Imitating kufr is forbidden. As long as people don't think you are a kafir from your actions, imitation is permissable. If it were me, I would merely wear a t-shirt that says, I'm actually a muslim, and maybe wear a topi, then go with the flow.
you can find scholars who say it is permissable to eat food with haram ingredients as long as not over 5% of the total, this is rubish of-course as any mainstream muslim could explain but still some scholars say it.

other scholars say it is allowed to vote and take part in the democratic system,
this this is also trash and can be proved to be incorrect.

the problem is Allah swt asked us in the Quran to first reject taghoot then believe in Allah, how is that rejection of taghoot shown in our actions if we take part in kufr?

imam shafi said to even give an egg to the fire worshippers on their day of worship is kufr, this is because it shows you are pleased with their celebration, pleased with their disbelief and so you negate your islam through your actions.

how much worse than this to not just take and recieve gifts but to take part in the whole day?
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 05:18 AM
Well if it helps easter has nothing to do with Christ. Well the egg hunt, candy, and dinner has nothing to do with Jesus. unless they are asking you to go to mass then it would not be haram for you to play there games.
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Well if it helps easter has nothing to do with Christ. Well the egg hunt, candy, and dinner has nothing to do with Jesus. unless they are asking you to go to mass then it would not be haram for you to play there games.
So I guess you are now a speaker for the faith of islam??? Maybe it's a tiny part of your soul yearning to break free. Maybe you should explore that avenue.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 05:29 AM
Originally Posted by coddles76
So I guess you are now a speaker for the faith of islam??? Maybe it's a tiny part of your soul yearning to break free. Maybe you should explore that avenue.
How so. Would you consider this exploirig?

http://www.themuslimzone.com/civil-c...html#post20765

I guess I should edit some words into it. *if I could edit* But think of this, Allah tells us to honor our parents, not spending the day with them for there "holiday" would be not honoring them. Whic would be disrespectfull and haram. I hope you follow what I mean.
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 05:36 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
I guess I should edit some words into it. *if I could edit* But think of this, Allah tells us to honor our parents, not spending the day with them for there "holiday" would be not honoring them. Whic would be disrespectfull and haram. I hope you follow what I mean.
And Allah SWT also tells us:-

Quran 29:8 "We have enjoined on man kindness to parents: but if they (either of them) strive (to force) thee to join with Me (in worship) anything of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not. Ye have (all) to return to Me, and I will tell you (the truth) of all that ye did".

Quran 4:135 "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do".

I hope you follow what Allah SWT Means.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 05:38 AM
Originally Posted by coddles76
And Allah SWT also tells us:-

Quran 29:8 "We have enjoined on man kindness to parents: but if they (either of them) strive (to force) thee to join with Me (in worship) anything of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not. Ye have (all) to return to Me, and I will tell you (the truth) of all that ye did".

Quran 4:135 "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do".

I hope you follow what Allah SWT Means.
But Allah=God and jesus is a prophet so a Muslim would have knowledge of these things. Right?
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 05:50 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
But Allah=God and jesus is a prophet so a Muslim would have knowledge of these things. Right?
Allah=Creator (In a muslims terminology, in case you start this terminology thing again) Jesus=Messenger
This is what a muslim has knowledge of, but Whats your point?
A muslim follows the commands of Allah SWT and submits himself/herself to him alone. If there is something that contradicts that submission than a muslim should deny to follow it.
Now in the case of following innovations which have a link to the belief of something muslims deny, then I think, as a muslim we should also deny those actions and rather follow the true path of Allah SWT, submitting ourselves to him.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 05:52 AM
Originally Posted by seeker-of-light
i am 15 will be 16 in may, and no these are traditions my family has always done they want me to continue to do them with them, because they want us to be a strong family and to get along. but dont understand why i must celebrate their holidays as well, i guess it is because i have always before and then now i dont want to, easter is very important to my family. my mom is completly uncompromising...
Actually as an atheist I know exactly how you feel. This is a holiday so you have to do this........ ugh............... before my dad moved out I had to say grace if I wanted to eat. I wanted to eat so I prayed. You can make them look like *something bad* go to church with them but sit threw the whole serves. They will be so embarrassed they will never force you to go to church again.
peace
mick
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 05:54 AM
Originally Posted by coddles76
Allah=Creator (In a muslims terminology, in case you start this terminology thing again) Jesus=Messenger
This is what a muslim has knowledge of, but Whats your point?
A muslim follows the commands of Allah SWT and submits himself/herself to him alone. If there is something that contradicts that submission than a muslim should deny to follow it.
Now in the case of following innovations which have a link to the belief of something muslims deny, then I think, as a muslim we should also deny those actions and rather follow the true path of Allah SWT, submitting ourselves to him.
Would it be haram for you to go to church *with out praying* to please your parents. Also Allah would know....... See what I posted right after you please.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 05:55 AM
I thought Allah=The God.
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 06:02 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
I thought Allah=The God.
Allah SWT has 99 Names which befit his High attributes. God is not one of those Names. There is a thread on this topic which I will try to find
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:04 AM
I know of Allahs names. Isn't God in an Arabic bible Allah.
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 06:08 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Would it be haram for you to go to church *with out praying* to please your parents. Also Allah would know....... See what I posted right after you please.
Stating whether it is haram or not would not justify the answer so I will try to answer it this way.
As I stated above "Now in the case of following innovations which have a link to the belief of something muslims deny, then I think, as a muslim we should also deny those actions and rather follow the true path of Allah SWT, submitting ourselves to him".. Going to church to please your parents would be contradictory to the pleasing of Allah SWT, so since our ultimate goal is to please Allah SWT I would rather skip the actions that contradict Allah SWT Deen (Way of Life) and turn to the things that pleases him. I would do everything else to please my parents that doesn't hold a contradictory action to displeasing Allah SWT.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:09 AM
How does going to a church to respect your parents wishes but not praying go against Allah?
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 06:16 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
I know of Allahs names. Isn't God in an Arabic bible Allah.
The most befitting name for our creator is Allah SWT. The term shields against modifications including Plurals and genders.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:19 AM
Originally Posted by coddles76
The most befitting name for our creator is Allah SWT. The term shields against modifications including Plurals and genders.
I have already been told that. How is Allah different from God. I know many Muslims who use Allah, God, and The God, interchangeably.
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 06:19 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
How does going to a church to respect your parents wishes but not praying go against Allah?
Ok,So maybe this will create a tickle to your question. How does going to church and listening to Easter Mass and Biblical scripture please Allah SWT?
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:20 AM
Originally Posted by coddles76
Ok,So maybe this will create a tickle to your question. How does going to church and listening to Easter Mass and Biblical scripture please Allah SWT?
Well you are respecting you parents. I thought Islam thought that was good.
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 06:22 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
I have already been told that. How is Allah different from God. I know many Muslims who use Allah, God, and The God, interchangeably.
Yes to promote Allah SWT to people who lack the knowledge of the REAL terminology and name of Allah SWT. Once they have grasped that understanding the word GOD is replaced.
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 06:26 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Well you are respecting you parents. I thought Islam thought that was good.
lol your funny. I'll take that as a comedy response as you seem to have let my past responses just fly over your head.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:27 AM
How does Allah and God differ then?
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 06:28 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
How does Allah and God differ then?
In terminology and translation.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:29 AM
Originally Posted by coddles76
lol your funny. I'll take that as a comedy response as you seem to have let my past responses just fly over your head.
I think its time logged for the night its 2:30am. Thanks for talking to me. I really enjoyed it.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:30 AM
Originally Posted by coddles76
In terminology and translation.
I thought it was really just a language thing...Why am/was I wrong to think that way.
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coddles76
04-15-2009, 06:31 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
I think its time logged for the night its 2:30am. Thanks for talking to me. I really enjoyed it.
My pleasure, I myself have found it very enlightening also so I thank you for that. Good night and have a pleasureable sleep.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:34 AM
Originally Posted by coddles76
My pleasure, I myself have found it very enlightening also so I thank you for that. Good night and have a pleasureable sleep.
Ditto. Thanks again. Glad you found it enlightening.
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saba muslimah
04-15-2009, 06:36 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
I think its time logged for the night its 2:30am. Thanks for talking to me. I really enjoyed it.
well..!!!
Welcome on LI...:D
Great replies i read.........
Hhmm very soon you will be famous...
M glad to c ur avatar " its true & Nice":statisfie:statisfie
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:40 AM
Originally Posted by saba muslimah
well..!!!
Welcome on LI...:D
Great replies i read.........
Hhmm very soon you will be famous...
M glad to c ur avatar " its true & Nice":statisfie:statisfie
Thanks. lol. I do not think telling you I think Islam is equaly as bad will make you like me more. I just got tired of all the hate on Islam and Muslims. I guess you could thank her for that.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 06:51 AM
What do you think I as an atheist should do in the same senerio?
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Woodrow
04-15-2009, 07:02 AM
Getting back to the Allaah(swt) means God question. the answer is both yes and no. to a non-Muslim Arabic speaker Allaah is the word that means "The God" to a Muslim Allaah(swt) is a specific name for one specific being. However, Arabic Christians and Jews both use Allaah(swt) in reference to "The God" mentioned in the Torah and the Bible.

Many Arabs speakers seeing that the English word God is capitalized, assume that it must be the name of the diety Christians worship. Based on that assumption Allaah(swt) and God are 2 seprate entities.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 07:04 AM
Thanks woodrow. So we would both be right?
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Woodrow
04-15-2009, 07:49 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Thanks woodrow. So we would both be right?

As paradoxical as it seems that is true. but, that is because it is two different views of the same thing. to get the whole truth you need to see both sides and understand both views. Sort of like two men describing a car that is painted red on one side and blue on the other. two men looking from different sides would see a different color car, but both would be right.

You are going to get different answers from a Muslim Native Arabic speaker, a non-Muslim Native Arabic speaker, A Muslim non-Arabic speaker and a non-Muslim non-Arabic speaker.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-15-2009, 07:52 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
As paradoxical as it seems that is true. but, that is because it is two different views of the same thing. to get the whole truth you need to see both sides and understand both views. Sort of like two men describing a car that is painted red on one side and blue on the other. two men looking from different sides would see a different color car, but both would be right.

You are going to get different answers from a Muslim Native Arabic speaker, a non-Muslim Native Arabic speaker, A Muslim non-Arabic speaker and a non-Muslim non-Arabic speaker.
Thats a great point. You should always consider who is seeing from a different view point of you.
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