What's the difference between "Children of God" and "Servant/Slave of God"?

[AntiKarateKid]

Christians say we are children of God. Muslims say we are servants/slaves of God. But both describe us as having to obey him so... a person can be a servant of God and A Child of God right? But the problem with being a "child" of God is that is ascribes overtly human aspects to Him, namely family wise.
But why does a person need to think they are in a "family" with God to feel like God loves them?

These are my thoughts/ramblings on the subject.

What are your opinions on it? Which one is more befitting of God?

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Qur'an 5: 18.

And (both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are the children of Allâh and His loved ones." Say: "Why then does He punish you for your sins?" Nay, you are but human beings, of those He has created, He forgives whom He wills and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allâh belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and to Him is the return (of all).


Since the christians and some jews say that people will go to hell for eternity if they don't believe in their religion, then if we were His children - why would He punish the disbelievers (who are supposedly His children) for eternity? But if you are His servants, He is just and can do anything He wishes with those who are wrong doers - since He is the rule maker.

[Follower]

We don't need to think we are a family, it is just a matter of fact.

What loving father does not: "Why then does He punish you for your sins?
Why do human fathers punish- to make their children better people.

[Cabdullahi]

we are all metaphorically children of god......but the title 'father' is corrupted and so when islam came the aim was to correct the people's mindset that allah does not beget nor is he begotten........the word 'ab' which means father in arabic is easier than 'rabb' which means god... for several years this word was chanted around prophet muhammed but he never chose it to include it into the quran thats if ''he wrote the book''

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[AntiKarateKid]

We don't need to think we are a family, it is just a matter of fact.

What loving father does not: "Why then does He punish you for your sins?
Why do human fathers punish- to make their children better people.

Human father's don't command their children's lives and subject them to trials and tribulations their whole lives.

Taking away a loved one or allowing their entire civilization to crumble and their people scatter is something that a "father" will not do.

[أبو سليمان عمر]

Enslavement to Allaah includes and implies love, fear and hope. The slave loves his Lord, fears His punishment and hopes for His Mercy and reward. These are the three essential pillars of ‘Uboodiyyah or enslavement.

Enslavement to Allaah is an honour, not a cause of humiliation, as the poet said:

“What increases me in honour and pride, so that my feet nearly stepped on the Pleiades, is that I am included in Your words ‘O My slaves,’ and that You made Ahmad my Prophet.”
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
We are creation of our Lord ALLAH and we all are Sons of Adam. The difference is one cant chose his father. Allah created US with free choice we can be sbd ALLAH (slaves of ALLAH) or we can chose to not follow (not be slaves of Allah) as the Sheikh said Enslavement to Allaah is an honour:D
hope it makes sense :)
We ask Allaah to make us among His righteous slaves. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.

[Woodrow]

I can understand why many Christians refer to themselves and often to all of mankind as being "Children of God" it is a beautiful thought and in some connotations of the words father and Children it is correct.

However, over all the term "Children of God" is in error and can be very misleading. A father child relationship implies an equality between the father and the child, the child being simply an immature form of the father.this gives a concept of a level of equality between God and Man.

I feel that the term "Creations of God" to be more accurate and rather then say we are "Children of God" it is best to say "Servents of God" as that carries an implication of choosing to be obediant.

Just my thoughts, astagfirullah

[Pygoscelis]

I was not aware until just now reading this that Muslims consider themselves slaves. That is true?

[جوري]

^^ only to god!

[burdenofbeing]

I was not aware until just now reading this that Muslims consider themselves slaves. That is true?

only jews confront and try to subdue & trick god.
christians and muslims are more similar in that regard.

difference is I think, that being "children of god", "or children of son of god" has an underlying understanding -which I believe is evident in christians- that they will at most be scolded, and then jump into the heaven.

the slaves, aim to please the master. and live between hope and fear.

[Woodrow]

I was not aware until just now reading this that Muslims consider themselves slaves. That is true?

Not only consider ourselves slaves, but willingly desire to be. to understand what it means to be a slave, you have to first remove any thoughts of the infamy of the "Slavery" forced upon the captives from Africa by ruthless slave traders, that was not slavery, that was captivity and brutality.

to be a slave of Allaah(swt) gives unparralleled freedom as it frees us from the slavery to the temptations of this physical existence. It gives us the ability to love by choice not by birth requirement, it gives us the desire to seek rewards not the expectations we will get them as a birthright.

Slavery to Allah(swt) is freer then the automatic receiving of birthrights,

[Pygoscelis]

to be a slave of Allaah(swt) gives unparralleled freedom

This is the most curious statement I have yet read on this board.

[AntiKarateKid]

This is the most curious statement I have yet read on this board.

Have you skimmed over every explanation of a Muslim's relationship with Allah and his place in the universe?

I find your answer curious seeing as how you have 1500 posts on an ISLAMIC forum.

Submitting to the creator nets you: freedom from the illusions of this life and knowledge of what really matters

[Tony]

children of God sounds nice, but to me sounds a little bit cultish, also has connotations of forgiveness although could be mis construed as being given freewheel to sin and expect forgiveness. Slave of Allah sounds more like we need Him and He does not need us. Interesting topic

[GreyKode]

Slave of Allah sounds more like we need Him and He does not need us.

You hit the nail on the head.

[Woodrow]

This is the most curious statement I have yet read on this board.

You will find many reverts say that after accepting Islam. A great feeling of freedom overcomes us once we becomes a Slave of Allaah(swt) we are freed from all earthly bonds that hold us tight. It is odd that how when we think we are free we are actually trapped in a hidden slavery to the material world, often without realizing it.

[islamlover_girl]

The son must have any similarity with his father ,so how can anybody imagine that there is any similarity between the creator who can do anything ,keep the universe, see and hear everything ,......etc and between us,we r very weak.
we are slaves of Allah and we r proud to be slaves of Allah not of our lusts and desires.

[burdenofbeing]

how can you say there is no similarity between the creator and us? We have mercy, Allah is most merciful, we can hear, Allah hears everything etc.

[islamlover_girl]

how can you say there is no similarity between the creator and us? We have mercy, Allah is most merciful, we can hear, Allah hears everything etc.

When we hear just Allah orders our ears to hear ,we don`t hear or see by ourselfs ,we need help from Alah in every action,when we have mercy just Allah guides us to do.That`s extremy diffrent than Allah Almighty how does every thing ,hears and sees every thing without any help from anybody. We are very weak and Allah is most Great.

[burdenofbeing]

at any rate, there is similarity. and we need similarity to understand the aspects of god. unless they'd be abstract and we wouldn't even have the words.

[Grace Seeker]

we are all metaphorically children of god......but the title 'father' is corrupted and so when islam came the aim was to correct the people's mindset that allah does not beget nor is he begotten

It is good that you understand the difference between the original meaning of speaking of God as our Father and some of the later constructs. The biblical use of the term was to convey a metaphorical image that does not have any actual physical or biological aspects to it. Other religions and other societies however have other understanding that often corrupt the ways people think of God as father. So today some view the idea of God as father in ways wherein that conveys the idea of bloodlines and conveyance of genetic material. It seems that for some the metaphor has replaced what the metaphor was trying to convey, namely the intimacy that God wants to have with his creatures that was striking missing from most people's understanding of the nature of a divine being outside of the biblical story.

Even in the Greek world or the Mesopotamian myths where gods and goddesses had intimate relations with humans, they didn't actually enjoy the sharing of loving relationships with humankind, but were more "users" and "tools" than anything else.

In Roman society, the pater familias (i.e. father or the family) was more of a godfather type figure than a warm, intimate caring person. This pater familias had all authority in a Roman household. It was even so ultimate, that the child of a freeman who worked in the household was at birth laid on the ground before the pater familias, and if as head of the household the pater familias accepted him then the child would join the household. But if the pater familias turned his back on the child, then everyone else in the household, even the child's own mother, was required to do the same. Such children were set out on the street for any passerby who wanted to claim or they were eaten by the birds and other scavengers in the city.

The biblical imagery of the fatherhood of God was set against these sorts of misunderstandings about the nature and character of God that the Greeks and Mesopotamians had, the misanthropic understanding of the nature of fatherhood that was practiced in societies like Rome, or the idea that being a father is all about genetics. These ideas may all be aspects of what some people hear when they hear the term fatherhood of God, but they are not what is meant.

[mattityahu]

Slave of Allah sounds more like we need Him and He does not need us. Interesting topic

So slaves need masters more than children need fathers? Interesting. Children are completely dependent on their parents. Why do slaves need masters?

Yours,
M

[doorster]

I can understand why many Christians refer to themselves and often to all of mankind as being "Children of God" it is a beautiful thought and in some connotations of the words father and Children it is correct.

However, over all the term "Children of God" is in error and can be very misleading. A father child relationship implies an equality between the father and the child, the child being simply an immature form of the father.this gives a concept of a level of equality between God and Man.

I feel that the term "Creations of God" to be more accurate and rather then say we are "Children of God" it is best to say "Servants of God" as that carries an implication of choosing to be obedient.

Just my thoughts, astagfirullah

I feel that the term "Creations of God" to be more accurate and rather then say we are "Children of God" it is best to say "Servents of God" as that carries an implication of choosing to be obedient.

in this context that is more correct meaning of abd [عبد]along with "worshipper [العابد]" than slave is which is incorrect unless we are willing t do away with the concept of freedom of choice which in turn will contradict Allah when He says that there is no compulsion in religion

abd as used in Surat 1 [ اياك نعبد واياك نستعين]

N.B. it is easier for me to talk to an Urdu speaker about this than with Arabic or English speakers because it seems as if we seem to have exact words to translate Arabic into

ie.
ibbadat: bandgi (worship)
abd: banda (worshipper)
abdullah: Allah ka banda or Allah ki bandagi karne wallah (worshipper of Allah)

:w:

[GreyKode]

So slaves need masters more than children need fathers? Interesting. Children are completely dependent on their parents. Why do slaves need masters?

Yours,
M

The point is "he does not need us", that is our understanding.

[Grace Seeker]

The point is "he does not need us", that is our understanding.

This is also the Christian understanding of the nature of our relationship with God -- that he does not need us, but that we do need him. I fail to see what it is that you are getting at?

[GreyKode]

This is also the Christian understanding of the nature of our relationship with God -- that he does not need us, but that we do need him. I fail to see what it is that you are getting at?

A father needs his children, no?

[GreyKode]

edit

[Grace Seeker]

A father needs his children, no?

No. A father desires his children, he wants to be in a relationship with them, but he does not need them to exist.


It is true that if he never had children he would not be a father, but the same could be said of a master, if he never had slaves he would be a master of none.

[GreyKode]

If you disobey your father, he feels sad about it, and tries to appease you, but in my understanding GOD is not like that. If you disobey him intentionally then he will cause your life to miserable unless you repent and obey.
Besides, a child can argue with the father and in the end the father might have to yield to the son giving up what's right just to appease him and gain his favor, I definitely don't think GOD is like that.

[aadil77]

'Children of God' is just another flawed concept of christianity, this 'lovey dovey' relationship that no matter what you do you will not be punished and will in the end get an easy ticket to heaven, it doesn't make sense and is another failure of christianity.

In islam Allah is All-Mighty, He does not need children and He is free of needs, we were not created to behave like children to Allah

[Grace Seeker]

If you disobey your father, he feels sad about it, and tries to appease you, but in my understanding GOD is not like that. If you disobey him intentionally then he will cause your life to miserable unless you repent and obey.
Besides, a child can argue with the father and in the end the father might have to yield to the son giving up what's right just to appease him and gain his favor, I definitely don't think GOD is like that.

Nor do I. I also don't think that good earthly fathers who actually have the best in mind for their children are so easily manipulated by their children. And God is certainly a much better Father to his children than we earthly parents are. Is your objection to the term "children of God" that you see this as lowering God to human stature? Might it be that it challenges humans to something higher than their own earthly understandings of the nature of Fatherhood?

[Yanal]

Children of God means We are children of Allah and Servant of God means he is our lord and we do everything to please him.

[Grace Seeker]

Children of God means We are children of Allah and Servant of God means he is our lord and we do everything to please him.

And are they mutually exclusive?

To the Christian way of thinking one cannot really call one's self a child of God unless one is also willing to live in submission to him:

Romans 8

12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Notice that both the metaphor of the servant/slave and of the child are used of the same group of people in this one passage. For, Christians are also slaves of God, slaves of Christ, slaves of God's holiness and his righteousness in which we are called to live as a result of the new relationship we have with God in/through Christ:

Romans 6

16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

But these words carried with them particular connotations in to the original readers that we might miss today. Many of the first Christians were in fact slaves to human masters themselves. They knew all to well what imperfect masters were like just as you and I might have experienced imperfect human fathers. So, we need to be careful not to apply our experience with human beings (either as masters or fathers) in such a way that we project these human failings onto God.

Nonetheless, I believe there is one aspect of these human relationships that can speak to us. Most people, if they had the choice in their human relationship would rather be live connected with another through the relationship of being another's son than of being another's slave. And the Bible recognizes this. And thus although it many times uses the metaphor of servant/slave to describe the nature of our relationship with God, such a relationship is one that we impose on ourselves because we seek to serve God.

The NT makes it clear that God offers us special favored status:

Galatians 4

1What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2He is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. 4But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

Our position as sons (or daughters for that matter) does not lessen our need to be responsive to God's directions in our life, for a son must honor his father and obey him just as we are to obey God. But unlike slaves, we who are God's children are promised an inheritance by virtue of being children of God. But the importance of living according to God's righteous commands is just (if not more) important for the child of God as it is for the slave of God: "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10).


And so, being a slave of God is a good thing, but being a child of God is, IMO, even better because of the promises that God makes to those of us he accepts as his children, yet it in no way lessens the responsibility you have spoken of to be obedient for even as children of God we too must recognize that he is our Lord and, just as you said above, do everything to please him:

1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.

[hopeful19]

very good threads people!

[Jean]

If we are born again and sons of God (believers in the True God Almighty, maker of heaven and earth), true, we are in the family of God. He created human beings because He did want a family. It is not disrespectful to think that way. Jehovah God Almighty did not ask us to die for Him, He sent His one and only begotten Son, Jesus to die in our place so we won't each have to die to pay for the sin in our life. He loved us that much, but He does want us to 'Live' for Him. He desires us to help our fellowman and not kill or harm them but be willing to stand up for them in love. If we have given our hearts to the true Jehovah God who created us, we are slaves to God and sons. A servant is a paid person. We are not to expect to be paid. We are not hired. We are a bond servant, because a bond servant (study bond servant) serves God for love and not for pay. Also as a legal son of God, we have legal rights to God and what He owns. He has gone to prepare a place for those who have given their hearts and lives to Him. It is wonderful to be a legal son (or daughter). We do not have to do anything, just come to the Real God Almighty and receive from Him. He desires that we NEVER kill or harm another, but love, love, love them.....Being in a family does not make God weak, it pleases Him and makes us Rich....

[Aprender]

If we have given our hearts to the true Jehovah God who created us, we are slaves to God and sons.

Was that a typo or was I not taught about the other sons in church?

We do not have to do anything, just come to the Real God Almighty and receive from Him.

No, we have to live a proper life, according to the way God wants, as you stated earlier in your post. Or do you believe that just because you accept God in your heart that you'll be rewarded in Paradise regardless of your actions?

Also as a legal son of God, we have legal rights to God and what He owns.

^o)

I may have read your post wrong or something but I'm just not following your argument here, Jean. I'm not sure what you mean.

[Atlast]

I was not aware until just now reading this that Muslims consider themselves slaves. That is true?

Neither was I, Im finding the browsing of this site very interesting and instructive.

[Ali Mujahidin]

Truth be told, we are not even anywhere close to be as exalted as slaves of Allah.

Technically, the master depends on his slaves to get his work done for him. As far as Allah is concerned, whether we worship Allah or not makes absolutely no difference to Allah. To call ourselves slaves of Allah is just a human convention because in a human societal structure, a slave is at the rock bottom. Myself, in my heart of hearts, even as I strive to practice Islam as fully as humanly possible, I know that I will only go to jannah only because Allah allows it and not because of my piety and devout religious practice. Insha Allah.

[SalamChristian]

I was not aware until just now reading this that Muslims consider themselves slaves. That is true?

Christians also see themselves as slaves to God. It is one of the most often used words in the non-gospel books of the New Testament by early Christians to describe their devotion/relation to God. In this way, I see the New Testament as affirming the slave-relationship also described in the Qu'ran.

Woodrow and Abdullahi, you are awesome. I really appreciate your honest and insightful comments in this thread about the language of father/son in arabic and the meaning of the concept. I appreciate as well that you are willing to look past superficial interpretations of the Qu'ran (not that I would know) and be open to seeing a deeper, loving meaning in them. Your honesty is truly bridging barriers and healing divisions between the faiths, because this was another stumbling stone to my further considering the meaning of the Qu'ran.

Salaam Alaikum brothers,
Bob

[Fivesolas]

Great thread. GraceSeeker, excellent explaination of the covenant relationship God has with His people.

[SalamChristian]

I second that. This is a great, great thread. Beautiful listening to the way my brothers in worshiping God, Christian or Muslim, describe their relationship to him.

Truth be told, we are not even anywhere close to be as exalted as slaves of Allah.

Beautiful point. It reminds me of something John the Baptist said of Christ...after me will come one more powerful than I, and I am unfit to even untie the strap of his sandal.

While there is a difference in talking about Allah (swt) and Christ (pbuh), the point is the same. We are unfit to even do the slave labor of Allah (swt), but because of his love he does not banish us forever from his presence.

Peace