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Uthman
04-16-2009, 10:00 AM
The Top 5 Misconceptions of Backbiting and How To Respond To Them

Backbiting is one of those Islamic topics that often gets sidelined. Appearing as one of the frequent tarbīyyah topics in common circles and gatherings, the issue may be forgotten or ignored. This is severely problematic, as backbiting is one of the most devastating sins a person can ever commit, and not keeping ourselves reminded about it can lead to grave consequences.

To make it fresh in our minds again, let’s tackle the issue in a practical way. Here are 5 common misconceptions that we ourselves or others you encounter may have about backbiting, what is misunderstood, and how to respond to them.spacer -

Misconception #5: I’m not backbiting, I’m just saying.


When people respond with, “I’m just saying,” they’re telling themselves that what they’re mentioning is not something so bad as backbiting, it’s just “saying” things as they are. In other words, they’re trivializing the act, and telling themselves that backbiting isn’t really all that bad.

But backbiting is no walk in the park. It’s one of the most disgusting acts one could ever commit. That’s why Allah subḥāna wa ta’āla asks those who backbite, “Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother (or sister)?”1 God Himself is comparing backbiting to something vilely rancid, so no one is fooled to think it’s not an inhuman act like that of murder or rape. The imagery of you eating the dead carcass of the person you’re talking about really paints a clear picture.

Not only that, Allah is asking us if we would love eating that flesh. It’s as if He is saying not only is backbiting as disgusting as eating that person’s dead flesh, when we backbite, it’s as if we enjoy eating it, too.

Response: Describe to them how disgusting an act backbiting really is.
“You’re not, just saying. You’re going to that person’s body after their janāzah, ripping off their thigh, chewing it up, and enjoying it, too.”

Misconception #4:
I’m not backbiting, everyone already knows about this person, anyway.

If a person is mentioning things about someone already known, not only are they still backbiting, they’re following the footsteps of hypocrites. The hypocrites of Medinah spread rumors about ‘Ā’isha, may Allah be pleased with her, and as a result were cursed by Allah to the depths of Hellfire.2

Hellfire, which was intensified by Allah for thousands of years, turning its flame from orange to red to yellow to black3, and burns 70 times worse than Earth’s fire (minimum 210th degree burns?)4. The same Hellfire where those who spread lies about others get hooks pierced into their cheeks and slammed back to rip off their faces, and are given scalding hot puss to drink as relief.

If everyone already knows about it, why spread it and potentially go to the horror that is Hell? And if not the Hellfire, then being punished in the grave with copper nails repeatedly scratching your face and chest off?5 The risk simply isn’t worth it.

Response: Remind them about the punishment of backbiting and how it makes spreading rumors not worth the risk.

“Mentioning what everyone already knows about somebody is a dangerous path to Hellfire. Is spreading the news so important that it’s worth living with black fire that’s 70 times hotter, boiling puss drinks and having your cheeks ripped off your face?”

Misconception #3: I’m not backbiting, I’m warning others about
a person’s mistakes.

Human beings have a natural desire to warn others about harm. That’s why when they see something wrong with someone else, they’ll personally identify those characteristics as a problem, make a decision to be careful about it for themselves, and naturally want to notify others about it as well.

But that’s where the problem comes in. We want to naturally talk about someone else’s faults, but if we do, it’s backbiting. How can we get past this natural desire that’s so troublesome?

Simple. First we need to realize which of these natural tendencies is okay and which isn’t. It’s completely okay to be adverse to the faults of others. However, telling others about those mistakes, while naturally easy, is the major sin of the two.

The Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said backbiting is “talking about your brother in a manner which he does not like.”6 That means saying anything about the person that they wouldn’t want you to counts as backbiting. If you know the person you’re talking about wouldn’t like what you’re saying about them, don’t say it.

If we feel the desire to go out and warn someone about it, do so on the person with the faults in the first place in a kind and sincere manner. Our problem as Muslims is that we talk a lot about people behind their backs but never confront them in person.

Seconldy, on an encouraging note, remember that by not backbiting, we get closer to guaranteed Paradise. The Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said whoever guarantees control over what is in between their thighs and their jaws, he will guarantee them Paradise.7

This guarantee is awesome in two ways. Not only makes not backbiting easier because of the amazing goal attached to it, it comforts us in the fact that our religion understands. Notice how the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam asked for whoever guarantees control, showing that he knows it’s natural to lose control. But at the same time, he’s encouraging us to take that control and work towards Paradise.

Response: Explain to them what backbiting is and the reward of abstaining from it.

“Talking about others negative traits in anyway shape or form is backbiting and none of your business, and if you stay away from it you’re working towards guaranteed admission to Paradise.”

Misconception #2: I’m not backbiting, I’ll tell them later or
I don’t care, I can say it to their face.

Some people justify backbiting by thinking if they inform the person later they were talking about them behind their back, it makes the act okay. But telling someone you backbit about them after the fact is a part of the process of repenting and making up for the sin. It has to be done sincerely, with regret and shame for the act, driven by a balanced fear of Allah’s punishment and a hope in His Mercy.

Trying to justify backbiting by telling someone you backbit about them is like trying to justify believing Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, as the son of Allah by saying you will just repent later. Not only is it an imbalance between fearing Allah and having hope He will forgive you, it doesn’t make the act okay to commit in the first place.

What’s worse is when some people claim they, “don’t care” about backbiting and they supposedly can or will say what they backbit about someone to their. Not only is that even more of a misunderstanding than planning to tell them later, it just shows two things. One, they’re just a jerk. It isn’t bad enough that they’re backbiting, but they have to go and act “brave” by claiming they can tell the person the insult to their face.

In addition to being a jerk, they also need to be careful when they say, “I don’t care.” Do they really not care? And what do they not care about? They don’t care about incinerating in that 70 times hotter black fire we mentioned before? And having their cheeks ripped off your face and having to drink searing hot puss afterward? Are they really sure they don’t care? Chances are no.

Response: Backbiting about someone with the intention to tell them later doesn’t make it okay. It’s still backbiting. And claiming you, “don’t care” and can say it to their face shows that you’re a jerk and don’t care about the Hellfire.

Misconception #1: I’m not backbiting, it’s true.


This, by far, is the most common misconception and response we find Muslims making when we warn them about backbiting. They think that backbiting is only when you mention bad things about people that aren’t true. Is that really the case?

Going back to the definition of backbiting, the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said backbiting is to mention things about your brother (or sister) which they don’t like. After the Companions heard this definition, one of them asked, “what do you think about if what I say about that person is true?”

“If (that) is actually found (in that person) what you claimed, you, in fact, backbit him. And if that’s not in that person, it’s slander,” the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam answered.

This shows that we’ve got it all wrong. Just because what we’re saying is true, doesn’t mean it’s not backbiting. In fact, it proves that we are indeed backbiting, because backbiting is true information. If it wasn’t true, we’d be doing something worse than backbiting, slander.

That makes a whole lot of things count as backbiting. That’s why when ‘Ā’isha said about Ṣafīyya, the wife of the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam who was the daughter of a Jewish leader, that, “she’s short,” he got upset and said, “you have said a word that if were to be dropped into the sea it would contaminate it.”8

‘Ā’isha and the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam knew about Ṣafīyya’s height. So did everyone else who saw her in Medinah, and all the people from her tribe before she married the Prophet. In other words, what ‘Ā’isha said was as true as it gets. But the fact that it was true made it backbiting. And if something as small as what she said was poison to the entire sea, what about when we talk about how people may be gaining weight, undergoing a divorce, losing their hair, struggling to control their anger, failing to give up a public sin, or anything else they wouldn’t like said about them?

Response: Inform them about truth being backbiting and falsehood being slander.

“Yeah, you’re backbiting, because the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam if it’s true, which you’re saying it is, then it’s backbiting.”

Conclusion


Backbiting is no misdemeanor. It’s a federal offense. In fact, it’s more than that. It’s a universal act of ethical treason, the likes of which transcend this world and has severe consequences in the next.

We need to remember that when we signed up to become Muslim, we agreed to follow all of the rules, and one of the rules is that for anyone else who signed up for the contract of Lā ilāh ha illa Allāh, Muḥammmad al-rasūlullāh you can’t ever talk behind their back. Doing so is not only a horrible sin and a disgusting act, it’s one of the worst things you could ever do to your Muslim brother or sister.

While you may be fired up to use the responses to these misconceptions and are trying to think of people you could use them on, ask yourself if the person to respond to is none other than you. Do you have these misconceptions about backbiting? Have you ever made any of these five justifications or something similar to them? If so, give yourself the responses and work on yourself first, and eventually, you can work on correcting others, as well.

1. Qur’ān: Surah Ḥujurāt, chapter 49, verse 12, Sahih International translation
2. Qur’ān: Surah Nūr, chapter 24, verse 11
3. Ḥadīth: Sunan al-Tirmidhī
4. Ḥadīth: Bukharī 3265; Muslim, 2843
5. Ḥadīth: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4875, Book 41, Number 4860
6. Ḥadīth: Muslim, Book 032, Chapter 18, Number 6265, narrated Abū Hurairah
7. Ḥadīth: Bukharī, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 799, narrated Sahl bin Sā‘d
8. Ḥadīth: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2502, Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4875

Source: MuslimMatters
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Uthman
04-16-2009, 12:22 PM
:bump1:
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-16-2009, 01:02 PM
What is backbiting
Reply

Uthman
04-16-2009, 01:24 PM
From the article:
Going back to the definition of backbiting, the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said backbiting is to mention things about your brother (or sister) which they don’t like. After the Companions heard this definition, one of them asked, “what do you think about if what I say about that person is true?”

“If (that) is actually found (in that person) what you claimed, you, in fact, backbit him. And if that’s not in that person, it’s slander,” the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam answered.
:)
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-16-2009, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
From the article:
Going back to the definition of backbiting, the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said backbiting is to mention things about your brother (or sister) which they don’t like. After the Companions heard this definition, one of them asked, “what do you think about if what I say about that person is true?”

“If (that) is actually found (in that person) what you claimed, you, in fact, backbit him. And if that’s not in that person, it’s slander,” the Prophet sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam answered.
:)
Thanks. I started reading not knowing what backbiting was and stoped to ask what it was thanks.Man this gives me some question but I will read first.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-16-2009, 01:47 PM
People do not like being toled their flaws is it bad to tell them this then even if hearing can help them? How can I stop being (what ever I am being) if no one tells me I am being that because they know I do not want to hear it.
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Ali_Cena
04-16-2009, 01:57 PM
Yo Mick

Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
People do not like being toled their flaws is it bad to tell them this then even if hearing can help them? How can I stop being (what ever I am being) if no one tells me I am being that because they know I do not want to hear it.
Umm not sure if you understood the topic, because it is about backbiting and how it is bad. Now your argument stands as to how will people progress if no one tells them what is wrong with his/her personality; let’s say, fine I agree with that, Islam agrees with that, that’s why backbiting is bad; backbiting is when you talk about someone’s negative aspects behind their back; ergo “back” biting. Now if no one tells you your negative aspects in front of you, then how will you progress? You can’t. So instead of backbiting why don't you tell them in front of their face; now you might think it is a bad thing; to say their bad points in front of them, but how is it bad when you are ultimately helping them remove those negatives? Its not.

Peace, catch my drift?
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-16-2009, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Ali_Cena
Yo Mick



Umm not sure if you understood the topic, because it is about backbiting and how it is bad. Now your argument stands as to how will people progress if no one tells them what is wrong with his/her personality; let’s say, fine I agree with that, Islam agrees with that, that’s why backbiting is bad; backbiting is when you talk about someone’s negative aspects behind their back; ergo “back” biting. Now if no one tells you your negative aspects in front of you, then how will you progress? You can’t. So instead of backbiting why don't you tell them in front of their face; now you might think it is a bad thing; to say their bad points in front of them, but how is it bad when you are ultimately helping them remove those negatives? Its not.

Peace, catch my drift?
Ahhh I got ya all know. So backbiting is talking about some one behind their back. I agree that it is a terrible thing to do.
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-16-2009, 02:29 PM
How about when people say its not "backbitin" when some one else said it fist. I was only agreeing....
...or...
It's not backbiting we were only talking about how we want to help the person.
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Ali_Cena
04-16-2009, 03:17 PM
LOL if you read the article Mick (which i am sure you have), you would find that they too are backbiting, they just think it is not, thats why its a misconception of backbiting. They are just excuses which you think are allowed in order for you to backbite; which ultimatly are not allowed forms.

Peace
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-16-2009, 04:09 PM
I agree that "backbiting" is bad. I also agree that what I posted are just excuses. I was adding more to the list of myths about it. ie other things to avoid.
That was the point of my last post.
Peace
Mick
Originally Posted by Ali_Cena
LOL if you read the article Mick (which i am sure you have), you would find that they too are backbiting, they just think it is not, thats why its a misconception of backbiting. They are just excuses which you think are allowed in order for you to backbite; which ultimatly are not allowed forms.

Peace
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crayon
04-16-2009, 04:38 PM
Great article, jazak Allah khair akhi.
Reply

noorseeker
04-16-2009, 05:09 PM
I need to stop this aswell. its just so easy to do it
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Snowflake
04-16-2009, 05:32 PM
awesome post mashaAllah!
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Uthman
04-16-2009, 07:05 PM
:sl:

The man who taught such beautiful morals could be nothing but a prophet of Allah. :)

:w:
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Uthman
04-16-2009, 08:22 PM
:sl:

I advise myself and all my brothers and sisters to:

1. Keep their tongues busy with the Dhikr of Allah (subhaanahu wa ta'ala). Inshaa'Allah if our tongues are kept busy in this way, it will prevent us from falling into sin with our speech.

2. Remember and apply the words of Muhammad (SallAllahu 'Alayhi Wasallam) when he said:
"Whoever believes in Allah and the last day should speak a good word or remain silent...."
:w:
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-16-2009, 09:12 PM
Any advice not an atheist who could use help not doing this? lol.
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Uthman
04-16-2009, 09:16 PM
Greetings Mick,
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Any advice not an atheist who could use help not doing this? lol.
The second point that I gave in my post (the quotation from Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)) is sound advice for everybody, regardless of their religious beliefs (or the lack thereof). :)
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-16-2009, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
Greetings Mick,

The second point that I gave in my post (the quotation from Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)) is sound advice for everybody, regardless of their religious beliefs (or the lack thereof). :)
so if you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all.
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Uthman
04-17-2009, 11:50 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
so if you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all.
Absolutely. :)
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czgibson
04-17-2009, 12:38 PM
Greetings,

What about if someone has broken the law? Is it bad to report it?

Peace
Reply

burdenofbeing
04-17-2009, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

What about if someone has broken the law? Is it bad to report it?

Peace
depends. but if what you are saying is beneficial to the community, you should say it. it's similar to press rules. it has to be beneficial to public, it has to be real, it has to be recent (or related to recent) , and it has to be balanced.
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Uthman
04-17-2009, 01:06 PM
Greetings czgibson,
Originally Posted by czgibson
What about if someone has broken the law? Is it bad to report it?
No, it isn't. The Holy Qur'an says:

"O ye who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." [An-Nisa 4:35]

Regards
Reply

czgibson
04-17-2009, 01:17 PM
Greetings,

Thanks for your replies, burdenofbeing and Osman.

Isn't it irresponsible of the article not to mention this, though?

Someone could read it and just assume that they should cover up any crimes committed by someone they know, since backbiting is apparently "one of the most disgusting acts one could ever commit".

Does anyone else see how an article like this could be extremely dangerous?

Peace
Reply

burdenofbeing
04-17-2009, 01:21 PM
not really, no.
Reply

czgibson
04-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
not really, no.
OK, well think about it a little longer then. :)

Peace
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-17-2009, 01:43 PM
I do not see how some one would assume that but, if this were to be re-writen I think it should be added in.
Reply

Uthman
04-17-2009, 01:53 PM
Hello czgibson,
Originally Posted by czgibson
Thanks for your replies, burdenofbeing and Osman.
No problem at all. It's a pleasure. :)

Originally Posted by czgibson
Isn't it irresponsible of the article not to mention this, though?

Someone could read it and just assume that they should cover up any crimes committed by someone they know, since backbiting is apparently "one of the most disgusting acts one could ever commit".

Does anyone else see how an article like this could be extremely dangerous?
I can see your point and perhaps it would have been wise for the article to also make make mention of this. To be fair, however, the kind of backbiting that, certainly I and I suspect most other Muslims hear being committed and sometimes even engage in, is usually discussing the personal affairs of others or talking about somebody's personal faults behind their back.*

I think that is what the article is aimed at, since that is the type of backbiting that most Muslims engage in.

* I apologise for using so many clauses in this sentence.

Regards
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FatimaAsSideqah
04-17-2009, 03:33 PM
As salaam alaykum.

Such a good benefical article! Jazaak'Allah Khair brother Osman for brought it up.

Unfortuanetly, too many people who have done this by every day out there. May Allah Taala saves us from torment of Hell-Fire.
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Uthman
04-17-2009, 04:57 PM
Wa 'Alaykum As-salaam,
Originally Posted by FatimaAsSideqah
Unfortuanetly, too many people who have done this by every day out there. May Allah Taala saves us from torment of Hell-Fire.
Ameen thumma Ameen. The sin of backbiting is indeed a very easy one to fall into. :(
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aadil77
04-17-2009, 09:38 PM
Ok so what if you're reffering to groups is it still backbiting ?
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Uthman
04-18-2009, 10:48 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by aadil77
Ok so what if you're reffering to groups is it still backbiting ?
I have no idea whether that would constitute backbiting. What makes you want to know? :)

:w:
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aadil77
04-18-2009, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:



I have no idea whether that would constitute backbiting. What makes you want to know? :)

:w:
Isn't it obvious? its the same reason you posted this article; to prevent backbiting
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أبو سليمان عمر
04-18-2009, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Ok so what if you're reffering to groups is it still backbiting ?
Gheebah (backbiting) means say about others things that they dislike. It is permissible in some situations, such as the advice of one who is able to advise you, and complaining about one who is mistreating you.
What is the definition of gheebah and what is the ruling on it?

Praise be to Allaah.

Gheebah (backbiting, gossip) means that a person mentions the faults of his Muslim brother in his absence, which he would not like if he heard about it, when there is no need to mention them.

When I say “mentions the faults of his brother”, this excludes cases when the other person says something to praise or commend him.

When I say “Muslim brother”, this excludes the kaafir, for there is no gheebah in the case of a kaafir.

When I say, “in his absence”, this excludes things said in his presence, which is not called gheebah according to the more correct of the two scholarly opinions.

When I say, “which he would dislike if he heard about it”, this excludes things which he would not mind.

When I say, “when there is no need to mention them”, this excludes cases when there is a shar’i reason for doing that, such as warning against an innovator to make people aware of his bid’ah.

It is essential to pay attention to the following in such cases:

1. Sincerity towards Allaah and seeking His pleasure.

2. Paying attention to the interests being served by such things.

3. What is said should be limited to the shortcomings in question and should not go further, to matters in which there is no benefit.

The scholars agreed that it is haraam to talk behind a person’s back for no legitimate purpose. Most of them stated that this is a major sin and that it varies in degree, some kinds being worse than others. The one who backbites about a scholar is not like one who backbites about an ignorant person. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… neither backbite one another. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would hate it (so hate backbiting). And fear Allaah. Verily, Allaah is the One Who forgives and accepts repentance, Most Merciful”

[al-Hujuraat 49:12]

In Saheeh Muslim it is narrated from al-‘Alaa’ ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan from his father from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do you know what gheebah is?” They said, “Allaah and His Messenger know best.” He said, “That you say something about your brother that he dislikes.” He was asked, “What if what I say about my brother is true?” He said, “If what you say is true then you have gossiped about him, and if it is not true then you have slandered him.”

Abu Dawood narrated in his Sunan via Nawfal ibn Masaahiq from Sa’eed ibn Zayd that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The most prevalent kind of usury (riba) is going to lengths in talking unjustly against a Muslim’s honour.”

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Your blood, your wealth and your honour are sacred among you, as sacred as this day of yours in this month of yours in this land of yours. Let those who are present convey it to those who are absent; perhaps he will convey it to one who has more understanding than he does.”

(Agreed upon, from the hadeeth of Abu Bakrah).

One of the worse types of gheebah and one which is most emphatically forbidden it to look down upon a Muslim and do one’s utmost to insult him, show disrespect towards him and cast aspersions upon his honour. This is a blameworthy characteristic and a serious malady; it is one of the major sins and the one who does this is subject to the warning and a severe punishment.

Shaykh Sulaymaan ibn Naasir al-‘Alwaani
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/9784/backbite
Ruling on backbiting about non-Muslims
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13611/backbite
Backbiting (gheebah) and its expiation
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/23328/backbite
Hope this help you should read them
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aadil77
04-18-2009, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Umar^111
When I say “Muslim brother”, this excludes the kaafir, for there is no gheebah in the case of a kaafir.
What does this mean?^


Sorry but still need answers
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burdenofbeing
04-18-2009, 10:06 PM
Umar, about kaafirs:

Backbiting about a kaafir is haraam if he is a dhimmi [a non-Muslim living under Islamic rule], because that puts them off from accepting the Jizyah and it is going against the treaty of dhimmah (agreement between non-Muslim subjects and the Islamic state) and the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). 'Whoever makes a snide comment to a dhimmi has earned Hell.' (Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh)

At any rate, it's not the best idea to do gheebah of kaafirs, unless you intend to harm them for a just cause.
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أبو سليمان عمر
04-18-2009, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
Umar, about kaafirs:

Backbiting about a kaafir is haraam if he is a dhimmi [a non-Muslim living under Islamic rule], because that puts them off from accepting the Jizyah and it is going against the treaty of dhimmah (agreement between non-Muslim subjects and the Islamic state) and the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). 'Whoever makes a snide comment to a dhimmi has earned Hell.' (Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh)

At any rate, it's not the best idea to do gheebah of kaafirs, unless you intend to harm them for a just cause.
Indeed akhi
That is why i posted all the other links hope you all read them :)
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burdenofbeing
04-18-2009, 10:17 PM
oh, sorry. I didn't check them out.
but the main text may sound like it's ok to say whatever you like about kaafirs. which is not the case.
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أبو سليمان عمر
04-18-2009, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
What does this mean?^


Sorry but still need answers
:) sorry but if you read the other 2 links i posted you will understand what it means the first one i posted was about backbiting muslim so it dosent include the rulings of non muslims but the other 2 links explains pls read them
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أبو سليمان عمر
04-18-2009, 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
oh, sorry. I didn't check them out.
but the main text may sound like it's ok to say whatever you like about kaafirs. which is not the case.
Yes i noticed that and so i made sure to add those links to clear it up :)
Reply

aadil77
04-18-2009, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by Umar^111
:) sorry but if you read the other 2 links i posted you will understand what it means the first one i posted was about backbiting muslim so it dosent include the rulings of non muslims but the other 2 links explains pls read them
Ok thanks I thought they were links to the main article:thumbs_up, but still nothing about reffering to groups of people
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
04-18-2009, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Ok thanks I thought they were links to the main article:thumbs_up, but still nothing about reffering to groups of people
well a group has people and it still is consider backbiting right? what i am saying is why should we should try to avoid unless it well benefit this person or group
Allah Knows BEST
Allahumma ighfirli khati ati wa jahli wa israfi fi amri wa ma anta a'lamu bihi minii. Allahumma ighfirli hazliwa jiddi wa khata'i wa 'amdi wa kullu-dhalika 'indi 7) (O Allah! Forgive my mistakes and my ignorance and my exceeding the limit (i.e. my great sins) and forgive whatever You know better than I. O Allah! Forgive the wrong I have done jokingly or seriously, and forgive my accidental and intentional errors, all that is present in me.) and to all Ameen
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Uthman
04-19-2009, 12:16 PM
I wonder where the rule on backbiting stands in relation to news reporting...
Reply

czgibson
04-19-2009, 03:37 PM
Greetings,

The prohibition on backbiting has always unsettled me. The idea that speaking the truth can be seen as morally wrong is very strange to me. Is it at all analogous to the Shia concept of taqiyya?

An example of why it unsettles me can be seen pretty much every time Osama bin Laden's name comes up in discussion on the forum. Someone will say what a horrendous human being he is, and how he's giving Muslims a terrible reputation to live with and so on. Sooner or later, someone will then say how wrong it is to criticise him - it's backbiting, only Allah knows what is in his heart, Allah knows best what (if any) punishment he deserves.

Is that a correct view of backbiting? If so, I think it's deeply suspect.

Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
At any rate, it's not the best idea to do gheebah of kaafirs, unless you intend to harm them for a just cause.
What a horrible thing to say about your fellow human beings.

Peace
Reply

burdenofbeing
04-19-2009, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

The prohibition on backbiting has always unsettled me. The idea that speaking the truth can be seen as morally wrong is very strange to me. Is it at all analogous to the Shia concept of taqiyya?
No. It's about invasion of rights.

Sooner or later, someone will then say how wrong it is to criticise him - it's backbiting, only Allah knows what is in his heart, Allah knows best what (if any) punishment he deserves.

Is that a correct view of backbiting? If so, I think it's deeply suspect.
Depends. Saying someone is a horrendous being is always a bad idea for a muslim. As all beings are created by Allah. Acts someone does is not like that. Muslims are allowed, and encouraged to say that his actions are horrible though.

What a horrible thing to say about your fellow human beings.
See how you phrased that? You isolated my actions to condemn. That's the way to go :)

Actually I think it is an understandable thing. If the fellow human being in question is waging a war against you, it's only natural to want to harm him. Words AND stones.
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Khayal
04-19-2009, 07:02 PM
:sl:

MashaAllaah, great thread, May Allaah Subhana Wa Ta'aala guid us all to act on whatever we read, InshaAllaah.

JazaakAllaah khayr.

:w:
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czgibson
04-19-2009, 07:10 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
See how you phrased that? You isolated my actions to condemn. That's the way to go :)
I'm not sure what you mean.

All I'm saying is that I find the idea of harming people for the sake of "justice" morally repellent.

I didn't really see what you were getting at with the rest of your post either.

Peace
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Tony
04-19-2009, 08:31 PM
This thread is really helping me, I thought I didnt backbight, but I have noticed that infact I am quite bad for it. Need to do something about it now. Thankyou for starting this thread Osman.Allahs blessings be upon you
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Uthman
04-19-2009, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
I'm not sure what you mean.
He means that when you said "What a horrible thing to say about your fellow human beings", your words were a condemnation of the action (i.e. the thing that he said) rather than a condemnation of him.
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aamirsaab
04-19-2009, 10:12 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

The prohibition on backbiting has always unsettled me. The idea that speaking the truth can be seen as morally wrong is very strange to me.
You misunderstand. The ruling is there to prevent name calling/slander/general tattle taling.

Let's say in the streets of a sharia compliant state, I come up to your wife or female companion. Let's then say I call her a **** or ***** (women who fornicates freely). To her face, in front of the townsfolk. Let's then say I show some ''evidence'' of it.

What I have done is:
* caused YOU trouble (you now have doubts about her)
* caused YOUR female cohort trouble (she has now been blacklisted from the community as a whole and the comments I have made about her have spread like wild fire because humans are social beings and like to talk)
* caused anyone related or linked to you or her trouble (for same reasons)

Whether or not the claim has any truth in it, I have insulted that person (for no good reason). If I have told the truth, it is even worse because now I have told everyone that persons sins (she has been blacklisted from the entire community as a result) - so it makes it even more difficult for her to gain any trust or respect back. Basically, I have in all intents and purposes just acted like the biggest ass in the world.

That is what the backbiting rule is to prevent: disrespecting and slandering people as a whole. Granted, the above example is a worst scenario case (and not neccessarily a common one) but I am sure you understand now. There is this saying that the truth hurts. So do lies.

Is it at all analogous to the Shia concept of taqiyya?
...
Taqiyya is to do with lying in order to protect oneself - different topic altogether.
Reply

burdenofbeing
04-19-2009, 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


I'm not sure what you mean.

All I'm saying is that I find the idea of harming people for the sake of "justice" morally repellent.

I didn't really see what you were getting at with the rest of your post either.

Peace
Originally Posted by Osman
He means that when you said "What a horrible thing to say about your fellow human beings", your words were a condemnation of the action (i.e. the thing that he said) rather than a condemnation of him.
^What he said.

And if you think harming people is always bad, period; then you are naive. But I'm guessing you are just being hypocritical. The survival of your genes prove that.
Reply

GreyKode
04-19-2009, 11:13 PM
All I'm saying is that I find the idea of harming people for the sake of "justice" morally repellent.
I know this is a tangent issue but just thought you might want to consider

Originally Posted by Gator View Post


There are 2 forces at work regarding a naturalistic basis for societal behavior.
The individual and the gene (going off dawkins, and wilson’s and many other’s “selfish gene” concept).

Individuals will react to further their utility and successful genes will further the perpetuity.

As has been stated, societal cooperation is more successful than just individual action.
How do genes promote societal cooperation? By incorporating Empathy in their hosts (us and other animals).

Empathy has been documented in many animals.

So genes affect a person’s utility function.

But empathy to a certain degree.

If someone breaks society’s rules they must be punished.

This has also been observed in other complex animal groups.

How do genes promote punishment of antisocial behavior? Anger and justification to punish
Again I apologise cz, I know this is not the main issue.
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czgibson
04-20-2009, 09:26 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Whether or not the claim has any truth in it, I have insulted that person (for no good reason). If I have told the truth, it is even worse because now I have told everyone that persons sins (she has been blacklisted from the entire community as a result) - so it makes it even more difficult for her to gain any trust or respect back. Basically, I have in all intents and purposes just acted like the biggest ass in the world.
It may not be necessary to tell everyone, but it could be beneficial for you to tell me. I might need to know! If you've told the truth, I can't see what's wrong with that. If my partner has done something wrong, she needs to be prepared to live with the consequences. Concealing her wrong actions helps nobody.

That is what the backbiting rule is to prevent: disrespecting and slandering people as a whole. Granted, the above example is a worst scenario case (and not neccessarily a common one) but I am sure you understand now.
Not at all. If anything I'm even more alarmed than I was before.

There is this saying that the truth hurts. So do lies.
Telling lies about people is wrong - on that we'd agree.

Your use of the saying "the truth hurts" is interesting. Most English speakers use that phrase in the following way: "the truth hurts, but it needs to be said". You appear to be using it to mean: "the truth hurts, so don't tell it".

Taqiyya is to do with lying in order to protect oneself - different topic altogether.
Both of them can be used to conceal the truth. Can't you see the connection?

Originally Posted by burdenofbeing
^What he said.
Hate the sin, love the sinner - fair enough. Thanks for explaining, Osman!

And if you think harming people is always bad, period; then you are naive.
Thank you.

But I'm guessing you are just being hypocritical.
Thanks again.

The survival of your genes prove that.
All the best to you too! :)

Peace
Reply

aamirsaab
04-20-2009, 09:49 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


It may not be necessary to tell everyone, but it could be beneficial for you to tell me. I might need to know! If you've told the truth, I can't see what's wrong with that. If my partner has done something wrong, she needs to be prepared to live with the consequences. Concealing her wrong actions helps nobody.
Indeed you may need to know - so would it not be better for me to tell you directly as opposed to spreading rumours about that person? That's what backbiting is essentially: spreading rumours (may be true, may be false - either way v damaging and dishonourable).

Your use of the saying "the truth hurts" is interesting. Most English speakers use that phrase in the following way: "the truth hurts, but it needs to be said". You appear to be using it to mean: "the truth hurts, so don't tell it".
Yeah that was my bad. I should have clarified it. I accept people want to hear the truth, but there are ways and means of doing it. Backbiting is an underhand tactic; spreading rumours, talking behind people's backs, gossiping - all very harmful. If it is the truth you want, then I should give YOU the truth - not the whole town. It would be more honorable of me to talk to you about the alleged incidents as opposed to showing that person up in public (humiliation) or talking behind her back/gossiping (to others).


Both of them can be used to conceal the truth. Can't you see the connection?
I see the connection but I believe they are different topics: taqqiyah is concealing the truth so that you may live i.e. if someone threatens to kill you and the only way to get out of it is by lying; the backbiting ruling is not neccessarily about concealing truth (or lying), rather about not spreading rumours/gossiping.
Reply

saba muslimah
04-20-2009, 09:50 AM
Very Nice Post...
JazakAllah,
"May Allah save our tounge from backbitting of any person"
Reply

burdenofbeing
04-20-2009, 10:12 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
...

All the best to you too! :)

Peace
Unless I'm terribly wrong, I'm guessing you are being sarcastic, and hint that I was insulting you. If that's the case, that wasn't my intent. At any rate, I'd like a clarification.
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-20-2009, 08:33 PM
I see this is a Prohibition on talking behind peoples backs and spreading rumors. I see it mostly in reference to personal attacks on people. Am I right?
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aamirsaab
04-24-2009, 09:37 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
I see this is a Prohibition on talking behind peoples backs and spreading rumors. I see it mostly in reference to personal attacks on people. Am I right?
Pretty much. If you think about it, it does actually make sense to discourage people from gas-bagging/gossiping. If you've ever heard people backbiting (or gossiping about someone), you know that what they are saying are usually very hurtful comments. Even if the comments are true, what you are doing is essentially bullying someone --- behind their backs no less (cowardice)! Saying it to their face is equally hurtful - imagine if it is coming from that persons friend? They'd feel betrayed and humiliated - that is not nice!
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-24-2009, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Pretty much. If you think about it, it does actually make sense to discourage people from gas-bagging/gossiping. If you've ever heard people backbiting (or gossiping about someone), you know that what they are saying are usually very hurtful comments. Even if the comments are true, what you are doing is essentially bullying someone --- behind their backs no less (cowardice)! Saying it to their face is equally hurtful - imagine if it is coming from that persons friend? They'd feel betrayed and humiliated - that is not nice!
Which is way I agreed it is a bad thing to do many pages back.
Reply

Uthman
04-24-2009, 02:42 PM
With regards to backbiting Non-Muslims being permissible, I'm afraid that doesn't sit too well with my conscience but of course, anything in Islam must be proven from the Qur'an and/or the authentic Sunnah. Has Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu 'alayhi wa-sallam) been known to use the word 'brother' in reference to Non-Muslims as well? Or did he only use the word to describe Muslims?
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Uthman
04-24-2009, 02:45 PM
A lovely video for our sisters to watch:

Media Tags are no longer supported

:X
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-24-2009, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
With regards to backbiting Non-Muslims being permissible, I'm afraid that doesn't sit too well with my conscience but of course, anything in Islam must be proven from the Qur'an and/or the authentic Sunnah. Has Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu 'alayhi wa-sallam) been known to use the word 'brother' in reference to Non-Muslims as well? Or did he only use the word to describe Muslims?
Are we not all brothers and sisters in humanity? In you opinion, are we all not "children" or the creation of God/Allah?
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Uthman
04-24-2009, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Are we not all brothers and sisters in humanity? In you opinion, are we all not "children" or the creation of God/Allah?
Absolutely but I am referring back to the hadith when Muhammad (peace be upon him) defined backbiting as saying something about your brother which he does not like. I am wondering whether Muhammad himself was known to use the word brother to denote Non-Muslims as well as Muslims. Personally, I don't see it as morally right to backbite anyone, regardless of their beliefs anyway.
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أبو سليمان عمر
04-24-2009, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
Are we not all brothers and sisters in humanity? In you opinion, are we all not "children" or the creation of God/Allah?
Yes we all are creations of God And no you are not a muslims brother
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
04-24-2009, 03:04 PM
10. Innama almu/minoona ikhwatun faaslihoo bayna akhawaykum waittaqoo Allaha laAAallakum turhamoona
Translation
10. The believers are nothing else than brothers (in Islâmic religion). So make reconciliation between your brothers, and fear Allâh, that you may receive mercy.
Quran 49 10
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-24-2009, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Umar^111
10. Innama almu/minoona ikhwatun faaslihoo bayna akhawaykum waittaqoo Allaha laAAallakum turhamoona
Translation
10. The believers are nothing else than brothers (in Islâmic religion). So make reconciliation between your brothers, and fear Allâh, that you may receive mercy.
Quran 49 10
That says the believers are brothers but does not say brothers are believers. Like an isolice triangle is a triangle but a triangle is not an isoclies triangle. Ya know what I mean?
Reply

Uthman
04-24-2009, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
That says the believers are brothers but does not say brothers are believers. Like an isolice triangle is a triangle but a triangle is not an isoclies triangle. Ya know what I mean?
All bananas are yellow but not all yellow things are bananas? That kinda thing? :D
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ATHEISTofPEACE
04-24-2009, 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
All bananas are yellow but not all yellow things are bananas? That kinda thing? :D
Yes exactly. All Muslims are brother/sisters but not all brothers and sisters are Muslim.
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
04-24-2009, 03:25 PM
Narrated by Abdullah bin Umar


Transmitted by Sahih Bukhari
Allah's Apostle said, "A Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, so he should not oppress him, nor should he hand him over to an oppressor. Whoever fulfilled the needs of his brother, Allah will fulfill his needs; whoever brought his (Muslim) brother out of a discomfort, Allah will bring him out of the discomforts of the Day of Resurrection, and whoever screened a Muslim, Allah will screen him on the Day of Resurrection." [Vol 3: #622]



Narrated by AbuHurayrah


Transmitted by Muwatta
Allah's Messenger (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wassallam) said "Beware of suspicion. Suspicion is the most untrue speech. Do not spy and do not eavesdrop. Do not compete with each other and do not envy each other and do not hate each other and do not shun each other. Be slaves of Allah, brothers." [47.15]
Narrated by AbuHurayrah


Transmitted by Sahih Bukhari
Allah's Apostle (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wassallam) said, "If a man says to his brother, 'O Kafir (disbeliever)!' Then surely one of them is such (i.e., a Kafir)." [Vol 8:#125.1]
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أبو سليمان عمر
04-24-2009, 03:26 PM
well all muslims are my brothers and sisters and all non muslims are not family of mine at all not a cousin not a brother nothing :)
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Uthman
04-25-2009, 01:31 PM
Then I would say that it's not within the spirit of Islam to backbite Non-Muslims even if there is no explicit prohibition on it. I don't think Muhammad (peace be upon him) ever did so and Allah tells us in the Qur'an that in him we have a most excellent example.
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Uthman
04-25-2009, 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
I wonder where the rule on backbiting stands in relation to news reporting...
I am still wondering...
Reply

czgibson
04-25-2009, 06:04 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Osman
I wonder where the rule on backbiting stands in relation to news reporting...
I wouldn't know, but I imagine that the British tabloids would be way out of line... :D

Peace
Reply

ATHEISTofPEACE
04-26-2009, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


I wouldn't know, but I imagine that the British tabloids would be way out of line... :D

Peace
Agreed. I think it is so inter dependant.
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Ali_008
04-28-2009, 10:53 AM
:sl:
Jazakallahu khair brother. It is an excellent post.
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Malaikah
04-28-2009, 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by ATHEISTofPEACE
That says the believers are brothers but does not say brothers are believers. Like an isolice triangle is a triangle but a triangle is not an isoclies triangle. Ya know what I mean?
There are some scholars who consider the use of the word brother in this case to be general and referring to mankind generally, not just Muslims.

Anyway, even if backbiting referred specificity to talking about non-Muslims that doesn't mean one is justified in speaking badly, unjustly and unkindly about non-Muslims.

Allah commanded us in the Quran to deal kindly and justly with non-Muslims who do not fight us.
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doorster
04-28-2009, 11:46 AM
it is also the biggest and most convenient weapon in hands of deviants to silence their critics.
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Uthman
04-28-2009, 02:41 PM
:sl: akhee doorster
Originally Posted by doorster
it is also the biggest and most convenient weapon in hands of deviants to silence their critics.
If somebody wishes to criticise someone, they should do it to their face though, should they not?
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doorster
04-28-2009, 10:12 PM
walaiukum salam wa rahamat Allah
how does one gather support in order to get a monstrous person isolated? goes to him and says o loony I've come to criticise you?

or in case of websites; does one write to hamza hanson, munajjid and shiachat com? and they would simply cease distorting Quran and Sunnat?
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Sister_22013
05-22-2009, 08:22 PM
Okay I have not read the entire thread, so forgive me if this question has been answered but...

Is is considered gossip/backbiting if no names are mentioned and its so ambiguous to the point where you cannot even suspect who it might be? I'm just wondering because my friend does this to ask advice from me on how to handle a situation.
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Uthman
05-22-2009, 08:33 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Muminin
Okay I have not read the entire thread, so forgive me if this question has been answered but...

Is is considered gossip/backbiting if no names are mentioned and its so ambiguous to the point where you cannot even suspect who it might be? I'm just wondering because my friend does this to ask advice from me on how to handle a situation.
If your friend really needs the advice and no names are mentioned to that extent then it's acceptable Inshaa'Allah.

:w:
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Unite1
10-22-2009, 07:33 AM
Assalamu alaikum
how about spreading a person's incident as an example for others to learn,but not revealing who the person is??
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Uthman
10-25-2009, 08:03 PM
Evidently, there is a lot of confusion about this so hopefully it can be clarified here once and for all. Brother Sampharo was kind enough to provide me some time ago with a list of conditions under which "backbiting" becomes permissible. Here is the list:
1- Matters of Justice: aiming to seek justice from a judge or policeman or to establish order or if you witness something.

2- Seeking assistance to help someone through whomever has authority over him, like telling the parents of a student what he does and what he's like to deal with him and fix him, or the husband of someone you saw do something wrong in public. We are also required to warn of a criminal, or a bad administrator to whomever manages him to correct him or remove him if needs be.

3- Seeking knowledge of right and wrong, so as to know. Such as coming to a mufti or a person of knowledge and asking "my brother or my wife is doing this and that, is that acceptable?" or finding out the ruling on a certain action.

4- Background check for business or marriage, in which case you are REQUIRED to say what you know even if it is harsh and embarrassing. The prophet was asked by a woman regarding two men (Aba al-Jahm and Muawiya) and he -pbuh- said: "As for Muawiya, is a pauper without money, and Abu Al-Jahm never lets down his stick (i.e. harsh, in another version travels too much like a bedouin)." Also if someone asks you about someone's reputation in settling debts or he wants to become a partner with them, you need to say the truth.

5- Jarh and TaAAdeel, which is Islamic "marking" of someone who's been known to be untrustworthy and therefore cannot have hadith or Islamic teaching accepted from him. For example we are required to point if someone is ignorant in religion or sectarian and gives misguided opinions so that others would notice and not take his words for granted.

6- If he is doing something in public without hiding or shame, talking about it is no longer backbiting. Such as artists making morally corrupt performances or someone publicly not fasting and eating in front of everyone or drinking alocohol at parties. You may not discuss other things about him that he does not practice in public though.

7- If it's used to refer to him or identify someone without belittling them, such as talking about someone with a common name and the one you communicate with mixes him up with someone else, so you describe him "The blind one" or "the one lost his job". Also permissible to mention the defect to inform someone about it to be sensitive or to behave accordingly, like informing someone "he can't hear you, he's deaf". It is not permissible to use it on the grounds of belittling the person though so you need to be careful with this one.

("Fiqh Al-Sunnah" Jurisprudence of Sunnah, Sayyed Sabeq, part 3/ Riyad Al-Saliheen)
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