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Ali.
04-20-2009, 03:24 PM
:sl:

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Dozens of diplomats, including Britain's UN ambassador in Geneva, walked out of a speech by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad this afternoon when the Iranian president accused Israel of being "a totally racist" regime.

The address at a UN conference on racism in Geneva was disrupted by protesters who heckled Ahmadinejad after he branded Israel a "cruel and oppressive racist regime". He said the state of Israel was created "on the pretext of Jewish suffering" from the second world war.

Peter Gooderham, the UK ambassador to the UN in Geneva, walked out along with representatives from France, Spain and several other European countries. One shook his fist at the Iranian president as he left. The delegates said they planned to return to the session as soon as Ahmadinejad had finished speaking.

European countries had been split over whether to attend amid fears Ahmadinejad and other delegates could ignite a new row over the Holocaust or Israel's right to exist.

Germany, Poland and the Netherlands were joining a boycott led by the US and Israel. France and Britain attended but promised to walk out of the conference if offensive language was used at the podium.

The protesters leapt to their feet and shouted "racist" in French at Ahmadinejad when he made his remarks about the state of Israel.

Some wore clown wigs and one, who was positioned among the delegates, managed to run to within 10 yards of the Iranian president before throwing a soft red object, hitting the podium and interrupting his speech. The protester was ushered out by security.

The protesters said they represented the Union of Jewish Students in France. "We did it because it's all a farce," Joelle Jakubowicz said. "You can't fight racism if you are racist yourself."

France's foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, speaking before Ahmadinejad's speech, said "we will not tolerate any blunder or provocation" from Ahmadinejad, who has referred to the Holocaust as a myth and called for Israel to be "wiped off the pages of history".

If Ahmadinejad "proffers any racist or antisemitic accusations we will leave the hall immediately", Kouchner said.

The Iranian president, the only head of state at the conference, is due to give a press conference today, which coincides with the start of Israel's Holocaust Remembrance Day.

The Foreign Office said in a statement, also released before the speech: "The United Kingdom has argued strongly for the concluding document to contain adequate language on Holocaust remembrance and combating antisemitism. We will find unacceptable any attempt to use the Durban process to trivialise or deny the Holocaust, or to renegotiate agreements on the fight against antisemitism."

A flurry of late-night telephone calls between European foreign ministries failed to salvage what British officials hoped would be a common European position, amid growing unease about what Ahmadinejad would say and fears that a draft text from the UN anti-racism conference would single out Israel and call for bans on the freedom to express criticism of religion.

Israel today announced it was recalling its ambassador to Switzerland for consultations. Israel's prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, said that while Israel would be commemorating 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis, "in Switzerland the guest of honour is a racist and a Holocaust denier who doesn't conceal his intention to wipe Israel off the face of this Earth".

The US said on Saturday that it would not be attending today's UN conference because of what Washington said was "objectionable" language in a draft statement. The Geneva meeting is known as the Durban Review Conference because it is intended to follow up a world conference against racism held in the South African city eight years ago, when the US and Israel walked out in anger at attempts to equate Zionism with racism.

One person not boycotting the conference was the film star Jon Voight, a staunch supporter of Israel who said he had come to confront Ahmadinejad's position on the Holocaust. Voight told the Guardian: "The fox is in charge of the hen house here. This is supposed to be about human rights, but hidden under that banner is antisemitism. Someone has to respond to it."

The draft statement for this week's conference does not single out Israel but formally upholds the 2001 declaration, which does. The UN high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, said she was "shocked and deeply disappointed" by the US boycott. On the Guardian's Comment is Free website today, Pillay concedes that the 2001 meeting has been "tainted by the antisemitic behaviour of some NGOs on the sidelines", but she argues that the best way to tackle such issues is to participate in this week's meeting.

That position was echoed today by Human Rights Watch. Juliette de Rivero, the group's Geneva advocacy director, said: "The sad truth is that countries professing to want to avoid a reprise of the contentious 2001 racism conference are now the ones triggering the collapse of a global consensus on the fight against racism."

British officials say the current draft text is acceptable if "adequate language" is included on the Holocaust and antisemitism, but they are also anxious to retain European solidarity.

Ahmadinejad's speech and press conference will be carefully scrutinised for his tone towards the US after Barack Obama's recent overtures to Tehran.

The Iranian president has ruled out compromise on Iran's nuclear programme, but has occasionally raised hopes of a thaw in US-Iranian relations, as he did yesterday when he insisted that an Iranian-American journalist, sentenced by an Iranian court to eight years in prison on espionage charges, should be guaranteed the full right to defend herself in her appeal. The Iranian government today urged Obama not to comment on the case.

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Amadeus85
04-20-2009, 07:20 PM
Italy, USA, Canada and a few other countries won't attend it either.
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Zafran
04-20-2009, 09:10 PM
Salaam

- This meeting is turning out to be a too political as it is - We have learnt one thing though - dont call Isreal racist because non of the Godfathers are having it. So much for freedom of speech.

I think Australia is also not turning up.

Peace
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Hassan'76ers
04-20-2009, 09:39 PM
I would give Ahmadinejad a standing ovation if I was there.
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Whatsthepoint
04-20-2009, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
and call for bans on the freedom to express criticism of religion.
What does this have to do with racism??
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Joe98
04-20-2009, 10:05 PM
Which laws of Israel favour one race over another race?

-
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Whatsthepoint
04-20-2009, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Which laws of Israel favour one race over another race?

-
In the state of Israel - probably none. But the situation in the occupied territories is pretty bad, very much like it used to be in SA, though the reasons are supposedly different.
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Zafran
04-20-2009, 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Which laws of Israel favour one race over another race?

-

salaam

I heard they banned the arab political parties...........Is the true?
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Whatsthepoint
04-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
salaam

I heard they banned the arab political parties...........Is the true?
The supreme court overruled the decision and theywere'nt trying to ban arabic parties bur rather parties deemed anti-Israeli.
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Zafran
04-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
The supreme court overruled the decision and theywere'nt trying to ban arabic parties bur rather parties deemed anti-Israeli.
salaam

right thanks

peace
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Sahabiyaat
04-20-2009, 10:50 PM
love Ahmedinejad :D
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KAding
04-21-2009, 09:22 AM
The whole conference was flawed for different reasons than just the obsessive focus on Israel.

It was set up with the specific intention of squashing anti-religious sentiments, in particular "islamophobia, anti-semitism and christianophobia".

Why wasn't kafirophobia included in that list? Once again religions are demanding more and special protection compared to non-theistic beliefs. Unacceptable if you ask me.

All of this criticism of the West is also rich from countries were converting away from Islam is a crime, who don't even allow political opposition and who don't even respect basic civil liberties.
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KAding
04-21-2009, 09:26 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

- This meeting is turning out to be a too political as it is - We have learnt one thing though - dont call Isreal racist because non of the Godfathers are having it. So much for freedom of speech.

I think Australia is also not turning up.

Peace
The Netherlands is staying away as well.

Btw, "freedom of speech" doesn't in the least mean that other people have to agree with you nor that they should be forced to listen to you! So I don't understand your comment.

This whole conference is a blatant attempt to limit my freedoms, I am glad my government decided to boycott it.
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Sahabiyaat
04-21-2009, 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by KAding
Why wasn't kafirophobia included in that list? .
um maybe because there is no such thing
i dont have a phobia of you my fellow human.....or so i hope to think...
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aamirsaab
04-21-2009, 09:55 AM
:sl:
So Ahmadinejad speaks his mind and everyone gets pissed? He must have said the truth.
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'Abd-al Latif
04-21-2009, 10:04 AM
He hasn't said anything which is something new to Muslims. It was the Britan who illegally took the land from the Palestinians and gave it over to the opressive Israeli's in the first place. Why wouldn't UK, US etc walk out?
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sister herb
04-21-2009, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Which laws of Israel favour one race over another race?

-
:sl:

Of course they laws are equal to jews and non-jews; how they courts and politician use them is just a little different between jew-origins and non-jew-origins.

Like if Palestinian muslim or christian kills israeli jew, he will get punishment of life in jail but if israeli jew kills Palestinian, he might get 6 months community service.

Equal laws huh?

Example:

Israeli Apartheid "justice": Kill an Arab = 6 months community service
Gaza; Peace n' Freedom
April 20, 2009

From Ynet (my emphasis):

The Supreme Court rejected an appeal by Haim Castro, a former Border Guard officer, who was convicted of shooting dead an Israeli Arab in Kfar Qassem six years ago, without there being any immediate threat to his life.

Castro was sentenced to six months community service by a district court. He then appealed to the Supreme Court arguing he did not shoot the man in question, but his appeal was rejected.


Do you really need any further argument that Israel is an Apartheid state? The same state holds thousands of Palestinian in detention, many of them having done no crime at all. Israel uses 'Administrative Detention' to arbitrarily imprison Palestinians without criminal charges. Interestingly, the military can detain a Palestinian in 'Administrative Detention' for six months (and is renewable indefinitely by a military judge under certain conditions), six month being the same period as Haim Castro's penalty for having killed an Arab citizen of Israel.

http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m53573&hd=&size=1&l=e

If Ahmadinejad simply tells what is real nature of zionist state and friends of zionists don´t like to listen it... hopely rest of the world likes.
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NYCmuslim
04-21-2009, 11:58 AM
The truth hurts.
I guess nowadays antisemitism= speaking the truth about israel.
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smile
04-21-2009, 04:51 PM
i really loved his speech!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
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aadil77
04-21-2009, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by NYCmuslim
The truth hurts.
I guess nowadays antisemitism= speaking the truth about israel.
It sure does and these cowards cannot take it
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Cabdullahi
04-21-2009, 06:05 PM
It looked like they rehearsed this...the way they all walked out as if they're school children being told its break time.....its just stupendous.....if you don't like the sound of something sit down until the speaker finishes every ambassador,delegate and representative must do this why? because in any discussion about any topic these are the principles

Ahmedinejad was critical and that's his view but being critical doesn't equate to antisemitism,to be honest the walkout has boosted his chance of staying in office he came back to tehran today as a king having flowers thrown at him
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Sahabiyaat
04-21-2009, 09:59 PM
i think they were trying to humiliate him by walking out, lil babies.
but he did not even flinch.
man of iron.
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Najm
04-21-2009, 10:06 PM
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

The walk of shame! Shame on u cowards!! :rollseyes

FiAmaaniAllah
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nocturnal
04-21-2009, 10:42 PM
Zionism is racism, there is no doubt about it, this was indeed the correct forum for Mr Ahmadinejad to address this issue.
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Amadeus85
04-21-2009, 10:49 PM
I think that many countries decided to walk out from this conference because it is ran by such tolerance and human rights champions like Lybia and Iran.
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AntiKarateKid
04-21-2009, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
I think that many countries decided to walk out from this conference because it is ran by such tolerance and human rights champions like Lybia and Iran.
Truth is truth, no matter who it comes from.

I don't think that a man's character changes the facts he utters if they are indeed facts.

In any case I applaud Ahmidinejad. I would have given the exiting "diplomats" a kick in the rear to speed them along their godforsaken way.
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memories
04-22-2009, 12:01 AM
Ahmadinejad lost all credibility towards me when he stated:
In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I do not know who has told you that we have it."
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Pygoscelis
04-22-2009, 03:09 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Which laws of Israel favour one race over another race?

-
I'm no expert on Israel, but are they not a declared "Jewish State"? If you consider "Jewish" a race, then the whole "Jewish State" thingie seems awfully racist to me.
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Pygoscelis
04-22-2009, 03:11 AM
Originally Posted by memories
Ahmadinejad lost all credibility towards me when he stated:
In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I do not know who has told you that we have it."
Doesn't that just make you want to give him a big sloppy homosexual kiss? :D
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Yanal
04-22-2009, 03:36 AM
Are you sure Canada won't attend?
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Bint-Al-Islam
04-22-2009, 03:55 AM
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is the best model that the rest of the Middle Eastern's kings and presidens should fallow..
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Yanal
04-22-2009, 04:09 AM
Presidents*Follow*
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coddles76
04-22-2009, 04:16 AM
People don't take a liking to the facts in this day and age, anything that contradicts what they are trying to push throughout the world is always looked upon as being false and degrading. We need more people to have the courage to stand up to the world order of corruption, So I say good on him.
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Yanal
04-22-2009, 04:21 AM
Yes but it can be a risk,in socials we learned of a story: a pope was corrupted that a humanist had to stand up and took action against him,his preaching was succesfull for a while but the pope had back up and started torturing and killing the followers soon the leader humanist was also killed. Thats the risk but nothing like this will happen.
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coddles76
04-22-2009, 04:28 AM
Agreed but I personally don't think there is a risk in speaking up against the enemy's of Allah SWT. We should fear Allah SWT and none other.
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sister herb
04-22-2009, 06:12 AM
Zionism’s latest casulties of its racism
Marcy Newman, body on the line
April 22, 2009



Is ethnic cleansing not an example of racism? The forced removal of people from their land, from their homes? Just like the United States did to indigenous peoples in the Americas. Here are the latest such examples in the zionist entity. But, no…zionism isn’t racism. What is it then, exactly?

in Aqraba:

"The Israeli military ordered seven Palestinian families to evacuate their homes and farm buildings within 48 hours on Tuesday.

All of the structures, all southeast of the West Bank city of Nablus, are slated for demolition.

According to Jad’an Qasim, chair of the Al-Falah Society, Israeli authorities decided to demolish the homes and sheds in the Getit area near the Israeli settlement of Mekhora. Families received notices to evacuate their properties within 48 hours, Qasim explained.

He identified owners of the properties to be demolished as Zayd Bani Minna, Khalil Bani Jabir, Jamil Bani Jabir, Ghallab Hammad, Wasif Hammad, Muhammad Hammad, and Abdullah Bani Jabir.

Qasim appealed to the Palestinian Authority and international organizations to intervene and prevent the demolitions.

The effort marks the third mass-demolition announcement in two months, after Israeli authorities warned residents of Al-Baqa’a in south Hebron and Silwan in East Jerusalem that their homes would be destroyed so a settlement can be expanded and park can be built on the areas. Forty will be rendered homeless in Al-Baqa’a and 1,500 in Silwan."



And in other news today a Palestinian was killed by an israeli terrorist in a car. I’m just wondering…might this driver be murdered because he is a terrorist like all Palestinian drivers who kill israeli terrorists with their vehicles?

"A young Palestinian man died after he was struck by an Israeli settler’s car in East Jerusalem late on Monday.

Twenty-seven-year-old Mohammad Ibrahim Sheikh Ali was reportedly struck by the car when he was attempting to cross the street in the French Hill neighborhood, between the Shu’fat Refugee Camp and the Pisgat Ze’ev settlement. Sheikh Ali was from Shu’fat."

http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m53606&hd=&size=1&l=e

imsad

A young Palestinian man died after he was struck by an Israeli settler’s car in East Jerusalem late on Monday.
What do you think, does police also arrest the relatives of this settler (like they would do if some Palestinian kills any jew in traffic accident) and do zionists destroy his family´s home as collective punishment (as they will do if driver would be Palestinian and victim a jew)?
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KAding
04-22-2009, 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by Sahabiyaat
um maybe because there is no such thing
Of course there is. Kafirophobia is just so ingrained in society that people don't even realize anymore it is based on discriminatory stereotypes. I also think it is fairly widespread and even the basis for laws in some Muslim countries.

Some quick examples:
- Muslims should not marry non-Muslim
- Non-muslims may not proselytize
- Muslims may not convert away from Islam
- Non-muslims may not enter Mecca
- The belief that non-Muslims cannot be moral
- Some even believe Muslims should not make non-Muslim friends
- Non-Muslims deserve to burn in Hell for eternity
- Widespread belief that no new churches or temples should be allowed to be build in Muslim lands

Now, where the roles reversed and would a non-Muslim say something like this about Muslims than I would most certainly also consider him an Islamophobe. Simply because the starting point seems one of gross generalization and one wherein a person is not viewed as an unique individual, but rather as a member of a distinctive group which is identified by using negative stereotypes.

i dont have a phobia of you my fellow human.....or so i hope to think...
I'm glad to hear that, I'm sure you are not. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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KAding
04-22-2009, 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
So Ahmadinejad speaks his mind and everyone gets pissed? He must have said the truth.
And everybody agrees with him on this forum, so he must be wrong?

Interesting logic there!
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KAding
04-22-2009, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I'm no expert on Israel, but are they not a declared "Jewish State"? If you consider "Jewish" a race, then the whole "Jewish State" thingie seems awfully racist to me.
Interesting point. From what I remember it is actually possible to convert to Judaism and it seems conversion is enough to get Israeli citizenship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return#Law
The law gives the right of return to those born Jews (having a Jewish mother or grandmother), those with Jewish ancestry (having a Jewish father or grandfather) and converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages).
So in theory Israeli immigration law isn't purely racial as such. It primarily discriminates on religious grounds apparently. Better I suppose, since it isn't as exclusive as ethnic discrimination. I think Israel is in a fairly exclusive club there, with countries like Saudi Arabia?

As far as Israel calling itself a "Jewish State" is concerned. Again, it has a lot in common with it's Middle Eastern neighboring countries, who almost all consider themselves "Islamic" and call themselves as such in their constitutions. Sounds to me like Israel is right at home in the Middle East :P.
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aamirsaab
04-22-2009, 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
And everybody agrees with him on this forum, so he must be wrong?

Interesting logic there!
Only the truth can cause such polarisation ;).
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Sahabiyaat
04-22-2009, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
. Muslims should not marry non-Muslim- Non-muslims may not proselytize
- Muslims may not convert away from Islam
- Non-muslims may not enter Mecca
- The belief that non-Muslims cannot be moral- Some even believe Muslims should not make non-Muslim friends
- Non-Muslims deserve to burn in Hell for eternity- Widespread belief that no new churches or temples should be allowed to be build in Muslim lands
:muddlehea


Muslims may not convert away from Islam

There is a difference of opinion on apostasy.Some say it is punishable by death others say its not.


The belief that non-Muslims cannot be moral
You are mistaken.There are numerous verses in the Quran commending the moral behaviour of say for e.g christians >

[“And you will find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: ‘We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud” (5:82).

If your talking about all other 'kafirs', I think everyone is capeable of morality, the question is the acceptance of this morality by God, which ofcourse lies with God alone. :) .There will always be differences of opinion.

Non-muslims may not proselytize
Sure you can :D.We just refuse to comply and it pisses you off dont it?

Muslims should not marry non-Muslim
Once again, sure you can. It is permissable for muslim men to marry from people of the book, jewish and christian women, whilst they retain their faith, the idea being that eventually they will follow their husband.As for others, they must first revert to Islam in order to marry a muslim man or woman, not because we have a phobia of them!, but because the Quran does not include them in its injunction.

The reason why women cant marry non muslims at alll without them first reverting is that the child follows that religion of his father, and so would be quite disastrous for Islam, if this were allowed.

Some even believe Muslims should not make non-Muslim friends
We are commanded to be pleasant and equitable to ALL. You must be referring to the Quranic injunction saying 'do not take them as your friends', this only means 'be cautious', not 'be unfriendly'.


Non-Muslims deserve to burn in Hell for eternity
Whether anyone, muslim or non muslim, is deserving of hell, rests with God alone :)


Widespread belief that no new churches or temples should be allowed to be build in Muslim lands
Non-muslims may not enter Mecca
I am unsure of the correct reasoning behind these.
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Whatsthepoint
04-22-2009, 06:16 PM
This year Israel will send a Hebrew-Arab singing duo to the Eurovision song Contest.
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Cabdullahi
04-22-2009, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
This year Israel will send a Hebrew-Arab singing duo to the Eurovision song Contest.
a hebrew and an arab....to a song contest are you sure??...it was that UFC contest
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Whatsthepoint
04-22-2009, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Abdullahii
a hebrew and an arab....to a song contest are you sure??...it was that UFC contest
An Israeli and an arab Israeli singing "There Must Be Another Way"
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Najm
04-22-2009, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
An Israeli and an arab Israeli singing "There Must Be Another Way"
Peace!

Yes there must be another way!!! It surely aint the Isreali way :rollseyes

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Whatsthepoint
04-22-2009, 06:48 PM

Here they are.

Mira Awad, an Israeli Arab, is on the right.
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memories
04-23-2009, 01:40 PM
ahmadinejad has no right nor proof to call israel racist, you ppl need to get off the jews back, they suffered enough in ww2.
besides, coexistence would be possible if gaza and the militants stoped fiering rockets on israel of cours israel has its way to go to, but the rest of the world is hoping for peace, not a bloody war that would end with the biblical apocalypse or soething....
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aadil77
04-23-2009, 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by memories
ahmadinejad has no right nor proof to call israel racist, you ppl need to get off the jews back
Proof is the creation of israel, everyone has a right to their views and its zionists we hate not the jews.
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memories
04-23-2009, 01:49 PM
you have your views, but would it not be great if peace and coexistence would be possible there, do you think not, or do you think it impossible.i mean, im tired of hearing on the news about that conflict, of course ther's some extremists on both side, and it is that wich i hate, extremists, they are the ones prolongating the conflict and further ensuring te loss of innocent lives. dont you think?
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AntiKarateKid
04-23-2009, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by memories
ahmadinejad has no right nor proof to call israel racist, you ppl need to get off the jews back, they suffered enough in ww2.
besides, coexistence would be possible if gaza and the militants stoped fiering rockets on israel of cours israel has its way to go to, but the rest of the world is hoping for peace, not a bloody war that would end with the biblical apocalypse or soething....
Have you ever thought that there are Jews who oppose Israel? That criticizing a government doesn't amount to critisizing the most populous race in that country?

Get real.

I've never heard anyone ever say "OMG stop criticizing Sudan, you need to get off of the black ppl'z back"

Just because they are MOSTLY Jewish doesn't mean they are exempt from criticism.

P.S. THe militants have been firing these rockets for decades now. Guess what? THose rockets are their meagre way at retailiating against hte Israeli military juggernaut.

Total Israelies killed by Militant rockets: 30-50

Total Palestinians killed by Israeli tanks/airstrikes/bombs/etc: Tens of thousands, probably above 100000
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AntiKarateKid
04-23-2009, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by memories
you have your views, but would it not be great if peace and coexistence would be possible there, do you think not, or do you think it impossible.i mean, im tired of hearing on the news about that conflict, of course ther's some extremists on both side, and it is that wich i hate, extremists, they are the ones prolongating the conflict and further ensuring te loss of innocent lives. dont you think?
And you are the same person saying "Get off the Jew's back."

How do you expect us to solve a problem when you protest even critique of the parties involved?

You are the one protecting one of the "extremist" sides here.
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Muezzin
04-23-2009, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
The whole conference was flawed for different reasons than just the obsessive focus on Israel.

It was set up with the specific intention of squashing anti-religious sentiments, in particular "islamophobia, anti-semitism and christianophobia".
Funny. I'd think Geneva's 'anti-racism' conference would be specifically about... anti-racism.

I don't know where you're getting the idea it's 'specifically' to squash anti-religious sentiments. Projection, perhaps.

Why wasn't kafirophobia included in that list? Once again religions are demanding more and special protection compared to non-theistic beliefs.
Where are religions (as autonomous entities, no less) demanding more and special protection in this case?

All of this criticism of the West is also rich from countries were converting away from Islam is a crime, who don't even allow political opposition and who don't even respect basic civil liberties.
Well, isn't that kind of the point of these kinds of diplomatic efforts? To provide a platform to address such concerns?
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جوري
04-23-2009, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by memories
ahmadinejad has no right nor proof to call israel racist, you ppl need to get off the jews back, they suffered enough in ww2.
I personally prefer war criminals and racial exterminators amongst other things, but I am curious who made them suffer during WWII? Astonishing that they should be made a Palestinian problem, rather than a German or western one?

besides, coexistence would be possible if gaza and the militants stoped fiering rockets on israel of cours israel has its way to go to, but the rest of the world is hoping for peace, not a bloody war that would end with the biblical apocalypse or soething....
You are very undereducated.. I am not sure it is even worth it to dignify this level of stupidity with a response!
but then I can't get past your descriptive linguistics to find value in your views!

all the best
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جوري
04-23-2009, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Interesting point. From what I remember it is actually possible to convert to Judaism and it seems conversion is enough to get Israeli citizenship.
How many folks converted to Judaism that you know of? can we say a catch 22?


So in theory Israeli immigration law isn't purely racial as such. It primarily discriminates on religious grounds apparently. Better I suppose, since it isn't as exclusive as ethnic discrimination. I think Israel is in a fairly exclusive club there, with countries like Saudi Arabia?
Another flawed premise, given that Saudi Arabia is a sovereign state, while the colonial settler cockroach state is well, a colonial settler cockroach state!.. seems about the only folks who recognize it as a sovereign state are folks who would rather hang their crap on anyone else than owning up to what they have done allegedly during WWII?!

As far as Israel calling itself a "Jewish State" is concerned. Again, it has a lot in common with it's Middle Eastern neighboring countries, who almost all consider themselves "Islamic" and call themselves as such in their constitutions. Sounds to me like Israel is right at home in the Middle East :P.
No, it has no relation to its neighboring countries whatsoever.. especially that given any application process where the colonial settler state is involved is always classified under "Europe" rather than the middle east..
also given all the money funneled them to establish their 'unique identity' I'd say they'd do anything to distinguish themselves from their neighbors rather than take cover to the same umbrella!


all the best
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memories
04-23-2009, 11:34 PM
look fellas.. all i was trying to say was that peace is preferable to war and camped positions.
and by the way its not the helpless population of the gaza strip that are doing the rocket launching its the outlaw minority of extremists,and the majority is not on the side of the extremists.(the folowing article explains more in details:)

The alleged militant group familiarly known as “Taliban” was declared “out of Islam” by 73 different sects of Muslims through an edict (Fatwa) circulated in parts of the narrow tribal strip of Darra Adamkhel.

The edict in Urdu language was circulated on behalf of Mufti Zainul Aabideen on Friday night. The one page edict focuses on Talibans’s terrorists’ acts in the area, particularly slaughtering of human beings and suicide attacks.



It is for the first time that a religious scholar declared “Taliban” as being “out of Islam.” The edict said that all the acts of Taliban are against the basic norms of Islam and humanity. “Even the Taliban leaders are considering themselves and their directives as superior to true Islamic principles and directives as ordained by Almighty Allah,” the edict said.

This rejection of the massacring of humans in general, and fellow Muslim would seem to be an even worse sin, is a signal the Taliban and al-Qaeda are creating the same local backlash they did in Iraq. Pakistan’s tribal areas, as well as Afghanistan’s portion of this region, are starting to realize al-Qaeda and their brethren in the Taliban are not the future of Islam, but the enemy. And this has come about because America pressed these Islamo Fascists in their own lands, which caused them to expose their true evil through their atrocities against humanity. This would never have come about through appeasement and just letting the movements grow in popularity and support. I came about because of the tough and hard policies of George W Bush.
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