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Khayal
04-21-2009, 12:07 AM
Bismillaah!
Assalaam O Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahe Wabarakatuh!

عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا أَنَّ رَجُلا سَأَلَ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَيُّ الإِسْلامِ خَيْرٌ قَالَ تُطْعِمُ الطَّعَامَ وَتَقْرَأُ السَّلامَ عَلَى مَنْ عَرَفْتَ وَمَنْ لَمْ تَعْرِفْ

'Abdullaah ibn 'Amr (radiyallaahu 'anhu) reported that a man asked the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) "Which qualities of Islaam are the best?" He replied,"Feed the people, and extend the greeting of salaam to those (Muslims) whom you know and those whom you do not know."

[collected by al-Bukhaaree and Muslim]

Source.

WaAlaikumAssalaam Warahmatullahe Wabarakatuh!
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Ali_008
04-28-2009, 10:59 AM
:sl:
:DAssalaamualaikum wa rehmatullahi wa barakatuhu:D

Jazakallhu khair

:w:
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Thinker
04-28-2009, 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by Khayal
'Abdullaah ibn 'Amr (radiyallaahu 'anhu) reported that a man asked the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) "Which qualities of Islaam are the best?" He replied,"Feed the people, and extend the greeting of salaam to those (Muslims) whom you know and those whom you do not know."
"extend the greeting of salaam to those (Muslims) whom you know and those whom you do not know"

Why is the word 'Muslims' inserted in there?
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Ummu Sufyaan
04-28-2009, 11:06 AM
^why not?
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sirajstc
04-28-2009, 11:35 AM
jazakalla kahair
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Thinker
04-28-2009, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Na7lah
^why not?
"extend the greeting of salaam to those (Muslims) whom you know and those whom you do not know"

I presume the inclusion in brackets means that it is not a part of the original verse which means someone has included it for some reason.

Without it the verse reads . . . ."extend the greeting of salaam to those whom you know and those whom you do not know." Including the bracketed word restricts the greetings of peace just to Muslims, implicit in that is that Muslims should not or need not greet non Muslims.

If that is the case the question that follows is why (perhaps because of verse 03:28)?
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Ummu Sufyaan
04-28-2009, 01:50 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
"extend the greeting of salaam to those (Muslims) whom you know and those whom you do not know"

I presume the inclusion in brackets means that it is not a part of the original verse which means someone has included it for some reason.

Without it the verse reads . . . ."extend the greeting of salaam to those whom you know and those whom you do not know." Including the bracketed word restricts the greetings of peace just to Muslims, implicit in that is that Muslims should not or need not greet non Muslims.

If that is the case the question that follows is why (perhaps because of verse 03:28)?
im not sure. maybe though it has something to do with some non-Muslims who question about the quran and sunnah in an insulting and rude manner, then try pass it off with a "oh what, i was just asking innocently, do you get angry every time someone questions your religion...your scholars know nothing, i know better"

hence the question stands: does a person like that deserve to have such an awesome greeting said to them?
i know i wouldn't want to even utter such thing to a person of that nature.
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Uthman
04-28-2009, 05:44 PM
:sl:

The problem we seem to be having stems from the following words in the hadith:

مَنْ عَرَفْتَ

What is the literal translation? And is Muslim implied in it's meaning? The reason I ask is because we all know what a rich language Arabic is and some words just do not have a completely accurate enough translation in English. Hence, words are sometimes inserted in brackets to account for this where the meaning is implied.

In any case, thank you once again brother for another great topic. JazakAllahu Khayran. :)

:w:
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Thinker
04-29-2009, 09:19 AM
Originally Posted by Na7lah
i know i wouldn't want to even utter such thing to a person of that nature.
Hmmm – does your restricted greeting also extend to people who make defamatory comments?

I would hope that we would all be willing to greet “those whom you do not know” of any race or religion, with the word peace; I would. From what you say it appears that you have difficulty with that option?
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Ummu Sufyaan
04-29-2009, 10:12 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Hmmm – does your restricted greeting also extend to people who make defamatory comments?
hmm- do your extremely restricted manners only extend towards Muslims/Islam?

I would hope that we would all be willing to greet “those whom you do not know” of any race or religion, with the word peace; I would.
I didnt say i have a problem with greeting people with the word peace.

From what you say it appears that you have difficulty with that option?
from what you say, it appears that you, yet again, have jumped into baseless conclusions
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Thinker
04-30-2009, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by Na7lah
hmm- do your extremely restricted manners only extend towards Muslims/Islam?
Please give me examples of that which you accuse me of.
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Ummu Sufyaan
04-30-2009, 11:57 AM
please tell me you don't think you talk to/about Islam/Muslims with kind and respectful manners.

evidence: from the threads/posts i've thus far seen from you (eg your recent "shaira law" thread and the "hijab" thread), your rudeness towards Islam/Muslims ranges along the lines of "Muslim women are oppressed" to "your scholars have no idea what they are talking about, whereas i do, although im not even muslim myself!" not only that, you ignore something when its explained to you, and yet, insist that your right.

please spare yourself (and me) the headache of trying to justify it with "oh i was only innocently asking!"
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A.M.H.
04-30-2009, 05:33 PM
jazakallah khair
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Thinker
05-01-2009, 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by Na7lah
please tell me you don't think you talk to/about Islam/Muslims with kind and respectful manners.

evidence: from the threads/posts i've thus far seen from you (eg your recent "shaira law" thread and the "hijab" thread), your rudeness towards Islam/Muslims ranges along the lines of "Muslim women are oppressed" to "your scholars have no idea what they are talking about, whereas i do, although im not even muslim myself!" not only that, you ignore something when its explained to you, and yet, insist that your right.

please spare yourself (and me) the headache of trying to justify it with "oh i was only innocently asking!"
I have reviewed my posts and see nothing there I define as bad mannered or anti-Islamic. I wonder whether we are of different cultures and our views on what constitutes good or bad manners are the same. In my culture it is not automatically bad manners to question or criticise.

As far as the direct examples you give . . . .
“Muslim women are oppressed"
“your scholars have no idea what they are talking about”,
“whereas i do, although I’m not even muslim myself!"

I can’t find any of my posts where I said “Muslim women are oppressed" or “your scholars have no idea what they are talking about”

The nearest I can find to that is my post in which I said:
Some Islamic scholars have defined "ordinarily appear" as face and hands, none have suggested that hair is principal feature of beauty and that covering it is required modesty. And, there are Islamic scholars who define it differently. In my opinion the reason they define what is required as the hijab is because they know that if they defined it as the burka 90% of muslimahs living in the west wouldn’t wear it.

In my culture that statement is not bad mannered, it is my opinion and if it causes you or anyone else offence I think you have a problem. I wonder why you and some others are so easily angered by anyone questioning your beliefs, could it be that are feeling a little insecure in those beliefs?

On the final statement you make about a non Muslim (me) having the temerity to suggest that I might know anything about Islam; you surely aren’t suggesting that only Muslims can make value judgements of Islamic teachings? If you are suggesting that it is ‘bad manners’ for a non Muslims to question or criticise Muslim teachings in my defence I say that I am a native Britain and the part owner of that kafir land that has welcomed more a million Muslims to take it as their preferred place of residence and adopted home some of whom have since demonstrated their desire to kill us, their neighbours. It has been suggested that some of the intolerance and lack of harmony between us (Muslim and non-Muslim) comes from a lack of understanding of each others beliefs and to that end I not only question to learn but question so that you might also learn how some of the things that you believe as acceptable behaviour might be perceived by people of my culture as ‘bad manners.’

I presume from your attitude towards me and your definition of bad manners that you are resident in a Muslim country and have been taught by and live amongst the same group of people who want to do physical harm to anyone who ‘insults’ Islam and who have defined ‘insult’ as something which we would not define as insulting? If not and you are living in the land of the kafir (as most of the members of this forum are) it would serve you well to spend some time with your kafir neighbours and learn about what they think about your views of them.
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- Qatada -
05-01-2009, 02:12 PM
:salamext:


The reason why 'muslims' is mentioned in brackets may be because according to other ahadith, the muslim does not initiate the greetings of Salaam alaikum to the non muslims (although some scholars disagree), but he does reply to them if they were to greet him this way.

Allah knows best.
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- Qatada -
05-01-2009, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:

The problem we seem to be having stems from the following words in the hadith:

مَنْ عَرَفْتَ

What is the literal translation? And is Muslim implied in it's meaning? The reason I ask is because we all know what a rich language Arabic is and some words just do not have a completely accurate enough translation in English. Hence, words are sometimes inserted in brackets to account for this where the meaning is implied.

In any case, thank you once again brother for another great topic. JazakAllahu Khayran. :)

:w:

:wasalamex

Man = who

'Araf - comes from the word 'urf = to recognise something. I.e. the 'urf would be someones cultural norms i.e. something which is recognisable.

So those who you recognise ('araft) and those who you don't recognise (lam ta'rif), initiate the Salaam greeting with them.
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Ummu Sufyaan
05-02-2009, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
I have reviewed my posts and see nothing there I define as bad mannered or anti-Islamic. I wonder whether we are of different cultures and our views on what constitutes good or bad manners are the same. In my culture it is not automatically bad manners to question or criticise.
I dont recall it being in mine either. but the way one may/may not go about it most certainly is, as im sure the same would apply in your culture, would it not.

I can’t find any of my posts where I said “Muslim women are oppressed" or “your scholars have no idea what they are talking about”
I dont understand why you keep insisting that something has to be directly said. haven't you heard the saying "actions speak louder than words." ?

In my culture that statement is not bad mannered, it is my opinion and if it causes you or anyone else offence I think you have a problem. I wonder why you and some others are so easily angered by anyone questioning your beliefs, could it be that are feeling a little insecure in those beliefs?
geez, talk about being narrow minded! being the professional thinker you apparently are, your reasoning could have easily been something along the lines of perhaps Muslims are defensive over their religion because they are secure in their faith and have a high respect for it. instead you come up with the lamest of lame possibilities.

and for the record, i (as im sure many other Muslims have), have had so many people-muslims and non alike-question about our religion. i for one, can only ever recall showing sternness towards those who show a lack of manners and respect when doing so!

Though, i do find it strange how you haven't given credit to those who have been answering your questions patiently, despite being ignored and have had to repeat themselves many times. its funny, i don't recall you doing such. I mean it wouldn't be too much to ask from a well mannered and respectful person would it be?

On the final statement you make about a non Muslim (me) having the temerity to suggest that I might know anything about Islam; you surely aren’t suggesting that only Muslims can make value judgements of Islamic teachings? If you are suggesting that it is ‘bad manners’ for a non Muslims to question or criticise Muslim teachings in my defence I say that I am a native Britain and the part owner of that kafir land that has welcomed more a million Muslims to take it as their preferred place of residence and adopted home some of whom have since demonstrated their desire to kill us, their neighbours. It has been suggested that some of the intolerance and lack of harmony between us (Muslim and non-Muslim) comes from a lack of understanding of each others beliefs and to that end I not only question to learn but question so that you might also learn how some of the things that you believe as acceptable behaviour might be perceived by people of my culture as ‘bad manners.’

I presume from your attitude towards me and your definition of bad manners that you are resident in a Muslim country and have been taught by and live amongst the same group of people who want to do physical harm to anyone who ‘insults’ Islam and who have defined ‘insult’ as something which we would not define as insulting? If not and you are living in the land of the kafir (as most of the members of this forum are) it would serve you well to spend some time with your kafir neighbours and learn about what they think about your views of them.
ahh resulting to your good ol' "tactic" of patronization I see. well done! like true Thinker style.:bravo:
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