God/Allah working in our lives

[glo]

When we debate the trinity in this forum, we usually focus on the person of Jesus, and whether or not we believe him to be God.
I am not interested in another trinity discussion, and I am hoping that this won't turn into one ...

Instead in this thread I would like to explore the Muslim view of God's Spirit, and if there is such a concept.

Let me start by saying what I perceive the Holy Spirit to be - God's spirit/guidance/presence in my life, which prompts me, encourages me and directs me (providing I am willing to listen and follow).
Sometimes I wonder whether others might refer to it as 'conscience' or 'intuition'. For me it is God's influence and guidance in my life, and the more I listen the more I become aware of that presence.

Now, please, please, please, not getting sidetracked by whether the Holy Spirit is God, part of God, separate from God, inside or outside of God ... :rollseyes
can you tell me if - as a Muslim - you have a sense of God working in such a way?
A sense of God actively being present in your life?

Muslims have given me different views on this, so I would be interested in your personal thoughts and opinions.

And also - if relevant - give example of God's Spirit having worked/working in your lives.
(Hey, if you play your cards right this could turn into a dawah thread!! :D)

Looking forwards to your replies. :)

Peace

[malayloveislam]

Holy Spirit in Islam and in my personal opinion as a Muslim referring to Archangel Gabriel (pbuh). He is the emissary of Allah to prophets for good news and revealing scriptures. Angels in Islam are the creations of Allah just like human-being and genies.

فاتخذت من دونهم حجابا فأرسلنآ إليها روحنا فتمثل لها بشراسويا

17 Thus she (Mary) placed a screen (to screen herself) from them: then We sent to her Our angel and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

The word in bold and underlined is RuuHana means Our Spirit. It refers to Archangel Gabriel, and Allah use "We" to refer Himself because it is the King language. Allah is the King of Universe, the God worshiped by all creations.

Angels got no choice but to obey Allah's orders, human-being and genies may choose either doing good or bad because Allah had grants human-being and genies desires. Angels were first created by Allah from the lights. Human-being from earth, and genies from the extremely hot flame. The first genie is Devil (Iblis, his other name is Azazel), in Christianity he was viewed as fallen angel. The first human is Adam, the second human is Eve. Muslim brothers and sisters, anything wrong please correct me, thank you.

[glo]

That's interesting, malayloveislam. Thank you for your reply.

In that sense God's Spirit is more like messenger sent by God. Is that right?
Rather than something that is part of God himself?

Any other thoughts?

Do Muslims experience God's direct guidance in their lives? If so, how?
After all, not all of us are visited by angels ...

[Grace Seeker]

Holy Spirit in Islam and in my personal opinion as a Muslim referring to Archangel Gabriel (pbuh). He is the emissary of Allah to prophets for good news and revealing scriptures. Angels in Islam are the creations of Allah just like human-being and genies.

If angels are creations just like human beings and genies, then aren't they material beings? I would think that a spirit would not be a material being. Is that just a preconception that I need to get over? Or, does the concept of speaking of matter mean that we are talking about two different things when discussing an angelic being and God's spirit?

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[coddles76]

Allah SWT sent down his guidance through his messengers, Angels and Prophets. These words of wisdom and guidance is enough for us to step through life and protect ourselves in the best possible way. His words as spread out in the HOLY QURAN in the form of guidance and teachings is what sticks in my head and allows me to move through life. I personally don't see this as his spirit but his guidance which was sent down through his messengers.

[جوري]

there is no 'God' spirit'-- and there is no 'God' son' I think it is really a very difficult concept of Christians to grasp. God has to be human or have a spirit..
how about:

[Say: He is Allah, the indivisible; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.] (Al-Ikhlas 112)

[Woodrow]

Peace Glo,

Having been Christian and having had experienced the "Holy Spirit" I believe I still have the same type of experience as described by Christians. But, now I do not attribute it to a personal filling of Allaah(swt). I now see it as a deeper understanding of Allaah(swt) by my own senses being more aware of the power of Allaah(swt). I think of it more in terms of an awakening and a better use of the gifts of observation that I was unaware of.

[Danah]

Interesting topic Glo!

To be honest I have never get the concept of the Holy spirit in Christianity and I still trying to learn what exactly it is......but never mind


In Islam....
How can we sense Allah existence with us?
lets take this scenario..
If you are locked in a room and you are all alone by yourself, and you are sure that you are alone in that room. Then you figured out that there is someone watching you from a camera hanging in the wall......here you will know that you are not alone and there is someone looking and watching over you through that camera, right?
the same thing applied for hearing.....you will know that there are someone is hearing you while you cant hear him

This is exactly how it is in Islam....Allah hearing, seeing, guidance is all with us.

There is no way we can hide from his seeing or hearing. You don't have to be a believer to be watched or heard by Allah.....simply he is watching every single creature in this world. The main difference between Islam and Christianity is that Allah don't have to form himself in other forms (human, or spirit) to be able to be with us. He can watch us while he is on his throne.....that's why he is the all mighty one..

and He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah is Seer of what ye do.
[4:75]

When I hear a Christian say something about protection, some of them said:
"May the Holy Spirit protect you or be with you" I don't hear someone said: "May the God father protect you".....its as they are specifying each person of the trinity to do a certain job....I don't know, may be someone can correct me if I am wrong on this.

Peace..

[glo]

Peace Glo,

Having been Christian and having had experienced the "Holy Spirit" I believe I still have the same type of experience as described by Christians. But, now I do not attribute it to a personal filling of Allaah(swt). I now see it as a deeper understanding of Allaah(swt) by my own senses being more aware of the power of Allaah(swt). I think of it more in terms of an awakening and a better use of the gifts of observation that I was unaware of.

Thank you for your reply, Woodrow.
And thank you that for the sake of this thread we can consider God's spirit outside the context of the trinity. :)

I appreciate the wording you use, and I can relate to it well.
"Being filled with God" seems to be very much the same thing which happened to the disciples at Pentecost.

I especially like your concept of "tuning one's own senses to become more aware of the power of God". :statisfie

Do you feel that God prompts or guides you on a personal level in daily things?

Peace

[glo]

there is no 'God' spirit'-- and there is no 'God' son' I think it is really a very difficult concept of Christians to grasp. God has to be human or have a spirit..

Interesting topic Glo!

To be honest I have never get the concept of the Holy spirit in Christianity and I still trying to learn what exactly it is......but never mind

Peace..

I seems that for some Muslims the thought of God having a 'spirit' which works in our lives is unthinkable.
Could that be to do with having it reinforced that there is no trinity, hence no spirit and no son. (Skye expresses that quite clearly)

Perhaps it is useful to draw from Woodrow's (non-Christian) terminology.
Do any of you experience God in such ways, which Woodrow describes? (See above)

Peace

[malayloveislam]

If angels are creations just like human beings and genies, then aren't they material beings? I would think that a spirit would not be a material being. Is that just a preconception that I need to get over? Or, does the concept of speaking of matter mean that we are talking about two different things when discussing an angelic being and God's spirit?

Human had both physical and spiritual body. Angels are different. They were created from light. Through modern science what do you think light looks like? Can you touch the lights? Genies too are in spirit forms. That is why they can take any form they want with the permission of Allah (Glorified be His name).

Spirits of the creations all is created by Allah. Angelic creations and Allah are different. They are in spirit form but not Allah. They are the same as human-being and genies, His slaves. Allah is the Creator. Creations and Creator are different things. Sorry this is a bit metaphysical.

SURAH AL-HIJIR (QURANIC VERSES)

بسم الله الرحمان الرحيم

ولقد خلقنا الاءنسان من صلصال من حماء مسنون 26 والجآن خلقناه من نار السموم 27 وإذ قال ربك للملاءكة إنى خالق بشرا من صلصال من حماء مسنون 28


TRANSLATION OF SURAH AL-HIJIR (NOT QURAN)

GLOSS TRANSLATION (NOT QURAN):

In the name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful

Indeed We had created human-being (Adam) from the dry clay which is originated from black mud which was given form 26 And the genie We created him before human-being from extremely hot fire (the heat of the fire may absorbed into the pores of human-being skin) 27 And (remember), when G-d says to to the angels: "Indeed, I created human-being from the dry clay originated from black mud which was given form 28

TRANSLATION OF SEVERAL TRANSLATORS

Verse 26

YUSUFALI: We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
PICKTHAL: Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,
SHAKIR: And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape.

Verse 27

015.027
YUSUFALI: And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.
PICKTHAL: And the jinn did We create aforetime of essential fire.
SHAKIR: And the jinn We created before, of intensely hot fire.

Verse 28

015.029
YUSUFALI: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
PICKTHAL: So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him.
SHAKIR: So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down making obeisance to him.

It is Allah SWT alone who guides us. Angels or any spirits had no Power over Him to guide human-beings or genies. They are just the honorable slaves of G-d :).

[Danah]

I seems that for some Muslims the thought of God having a 'spirit' which works in our lives is unthinkable.

I said I am still learning the concepts......not only learning the spirit, but learning the whole trinity thing as a whole

Could that be to do with having it reinforced that there is no trinity, hence no spirit and no son. (Skye expresses that quite clearly)

immm...not really, I am answering your question regardless of what the others said :rollseyes

Perhaps it is useful to draw from Woodrow's (non-Christian) terminology.
Do any of you experience God in such ways, which Woodrow describes? (See above)

yeah.....this is what I mean, Allah's hearing and seeing is with us....actually I am sensing Allah existence with me ALL the time. I don't feel that I am living all by my own. I feel his power supporting me in whatever I do whenever I go. I sense his guidance when I go through hardships as if there is a power strengthen me whenever I feel weak....its an amazing feeling!!

hope that help glo :)

[malayloveislam]

Peace Glo,

I think that I experience guidance from Allah when I revert back to Islam. I don't think it is the spirit of G-d who guides me but rather Allah Himself. If Allah doesn't guide me, I will still be lost without any guidance even if people around me like my parents stuffing things from the scripture (Quran) and etc. I believe that He is the One who had opened up my heart to repent from Syirk (I had almost associating Allah with other things). It happens slowly when I faced personal conflicts and do not know where to consult or to whom to speak my problems.

Once I returned back from pilgrimage to Holy City Mecca, I found that everything in myself starting to change and my faith toward Allah SWT increasing. Allah had planned everything, it will goes according to what has been decreed. Allah is the Administrator of this Universe, of course He is monitoring us wherever we are. He is always close to us and never leaving us once we open up our heart and giving ourselves a chance. This is my personal experience.

Holy Spirit in our scripture referring to Archangel Gabriel (pbuh). Archangel Gabriel is the one who had saved baby Moses in Pharaoh Palace through the permission of G-d. Archangel Gabriel too who had brought good news to mother Maryam (Allah SWT be merciful and pleased with her) and Archangel Gabriel too who had brought revelation to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) which is al-Quran all under the order of Allah SWT.

Archangel Gabriel too had came to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in front of his companions and followers in the form of human-being. There is a Hadith for this. Archangel Gabriel taking the form of a man and asking several things concerning the religion (Islam).

Narrated by Abu Hurairah (may Allah pleased with him): one day the messenger of Allah (pbuh) appeared among Muslims. Suddenly came a man from no where asking the prophet: 'O messenger of Allah, what is Iman (faith)? He answered: "Believing in Allah SWT, believing in His angels, believing in the scriptures revealed by Allah SWT, believing in the Day when we will be judged, believing in His prophets and messengers and the day where all the human being will be ressurected to be judged.

The man then further asked: ' What is Islam?'

Allah's messenger (pbuh) answered: 'Islam is when you worship Allah without any association to Him whether from the things in heaven or earth, performing obligatory prayers, paying the zakah (tithe), and saum (fasting) in the month of Ramadhan.'

The man the asked: 'O Allah's messenger, what is Ihsan (Charity)?'

Prophet (pbuh) answered: 'It is when you worship Allah SWT as you see Him. And if you can't see Him, remember that He is always seeing you!'

The man then asked: 'O Allah's messenger, when is the Dooms Day?

Prophet (pbuh) answered: 'The person who asked me even knows more than I am. But I will tell you what are the significant events marking the Dooms Day; When a master was born by a lady (daughters enslaving her mother), that is among the things marking that the Day is almost near. When a pauper became the leader of humans, when the shephards are proud of their pavillion. Those are five things marking near Dooms Day that are informed by Allah SWT to me.

Later prophet (pbuh) recites the verses (Quran): Translation; Indeed Allah, only He is the One who possess the knowledge about the Dooms Day; and He is the One who had made the rain pours down, and He is the One who knows what is in the ovary of a female. And nobody knows (certain) about what will happen to what he had worked on tomorrow. And nobody knows in which land will he die. Indeed, Allah is the most Knowledgable over all. (If anyone recognize this surah please give me the name, thanks and I pray for your peace).

After that the unknown man gone and prophet (pbuh) asking his companions to call that man back but they noticed that he had gone. Prophet (pbuh) says: ' That is Gabriel, he came to teach human-being concerning some problems related to their religion (Islam).'"

(Sahih Bukhari no. 48, Sahih Muslim no. 9)

[glo]

yeah.....this is what I mean, Allah's hearing and seeing is with us....actually I am sensing Allah existence with me ALL the time. I don't feel that I am living all by my own. I feel his power supporting me in whatever I do whenever I go. I sense his guidance when I go through hardships as if there is a power strengthen me whenever I feel weak....its an amazing feeling!!

hope that help glo :)

Hi Danah (Have you changed your name recently?? :))

I can relate to what you written.

I realise that I made a mistake by naming this thread 'Holy Spirit'. The word 'spirit' (even with a small 's' :D), if used in connection with God, seems to act as a red rag to Muslims and leads easily to attempts to refute the trinity.

Whereas in this thread I am really asking about how Muslims perceive God to guide and influence them in their lives. (It just so happens that as a Christian I would describe that process as 'God's spirit working in me/my life')
It seems a difference in terminology, rather than anything else ...

Perhaps I will ask the mods to change the title of this thread, just to avoid confusion. :)



Malayloveislam, thank you for your reply too.

I don't think it is the spirit of G-d who guides me but rather Allah Himself.

For me there would be no difference between the two statements.

I am interested to hear more about how Muslim perceive God's guidance in their lives.

Can anybody give me any examples of such things occuring to them?

Thanks :)

[جوري]

I seems that for some Muslims the thought of God having a 'spirit' which works in our lives is unthinkable.
Could that be to do with having it reinforced that there is no trinity, hence no spirit and no son. (Skye expresses that quite clearly)

Perhaps it is useful to draw from Woodrow's (non-Christian) terminology.
Do any of you experience God in such ways, which Woodrow describes? (See above)

Peace

God having a spirit is a big NO. working in our lives is your addendum. God working in our lives isn't and doesn't have to be on Christian terms if God indeed were the God of of all not the God of a few. God works in our lives by his own terms and definitions and that works for all of man kind, those who believe and those who don't, and it is certainly does not conform to the myopic christian understanding of a God. I haven't expressed it quite clearly, The only living word of God expressed it quite clearly.

as for my own private 'How I experience God; isn't publicly debatable-- I am only handling the 'holy spirit' portion of your topic!

all the best

[glo]

as for my own private 'How I experience God; isn't publicly debatable-- I am only handling the 'holy spirit' portion of your topic!
all the best

Then you are doing what I have asked people exactly not to do for the purpose of this thread! Can I please ask you to keep that specific discussion to other more appropriate threads on the topic? :)

I would love to hear your personal experiences, but I can understand if that's not something you are willing to share publically.

All the best to you too.

Peace

[جوري]

Then you are doing what I have asked people exactly not to do for the purpose of this thread! Can I please ask you to keep that specific discussion to other more appropriate threads on the topic? :)

I would love to hear your personal experiences, but I can understand if that's not something you are willing to share publically.

All the best to you too.

Peace

I'd gladly not discuss it, if you don't add little notes as such to express what you believe is the Islamic view:

seems that for some Muslims the thought of God having a 'spirit' which works in our lives is unthinkable.
Could that be to do with having it reinforced that there is no trinity, hence no spirit and no son.

for again, God working in our lives doesn't and need not denote that he is divided by three and the spirit portion carries such an act while the other two parts express different functions and are inept at carrying such an action. and to assert, that God indeed works in our lives even those who are atheists, just simply NOT by your definition!

other than that, good luck with your thread!

all the best

[glo]

I have asked for the title of this thread to be changed.
Perhaps that will help in preventing recurring 'trinity discussions'. :)

Skye, can you tell me more about Allah working in people's lives, even those who do not believe?

peace

[جوري]

I think this verse sums it up perfectly:

And with Him are the keys of the Invisible. None but He knoweth them. And He knoweth what is in the land and the sea. Not a leaf falleth but He knoweth it, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, naught of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a clear record.-- Al-Ana'am 59
every cell and every process that works in your body through its 'own volition' is naught except by his will!

all the best

[Grace Seeker]

Reading this thread I am getting a new sense of my Muslim's friends understanding of God. On this forum I see many people talk about religious isses and refer to them as spiritual issues. But in this thread, it seems that I am being told that not only are spirit beings creations of Allah -- I can understand that -- but that Allah is therefore himself not a spiritual being. Am I understanding correctly?

So, and this may simply be a badly formed question, but the best I can do right now, what sort of "being" is Allah? He is not a material being. He is not a spiritual being. What other sorts of beings are there? I thought that those two terms, when taken together, were pretty much all inclusive of every type of being that exists.

[جوري]

the verse
And there is none like unto Him.] (Al-Ikhlas 112
should really answer your Q.. why must you bring God down to a low common denominator?

[Follower]

GOD's Spirit comes to me when I need Him- comforting and reassuring. I am very much at peace because of GOD's Spirit. My world can be falling and failing around me but I am happy and at peace. He gives me insight when I study religion.

[malayloveislam]

Reading this thread I am getting a new sense of my Muslim's friends understanding of God. On this forum I see many people talk about religious isses and refer to them as spiritual issues. But in this thread, it seems that I am being told that not only are spirit beings creations of Allah -- I can understand that -- but that Allah is therefore himself not a spiritual being. Am I understanding correctly?

So, and this may simply be a badly formed question, but the best I can do right now, what sort of "being" is Allah? He is not a material being. He is not a spiritual being. What other sorts of beings are there? I thought that those two terms, when taken together, were pretty much all inclusive of every type of being that exists.

Peace

Allah is unimaginable by human mind and thinking, He has no image in our mind while we are still in the Earth. He is the most Highest above all. He is the Creator of the Universe. He is Holy. It is simple to say that He is the Creator, the G-d whose the only One worth to be worshiped and honored. Even His names are Holy can't be chanted in filthy and dirty places. We should not question His image because it is sacred can't be reached by human lowly thinking.

[Danah]

......what sort of "being" is Allah? He is not a material being. He is not a spiritual being. What other sorts of beings are there? I thought that those two terms, when taken together, were pretty much all inclusive of every type of being that exists.

He is beyond our understanding and imagination....there is nothing like him, he is all mighty. Our limited human understanding cant match such greatness and complication even if we spent our whole life trying to find out that

this another verse may answer your question as well:

Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer [11:42]

[Grace Seeker]

the verse
And there is none like unto Him.] (Al-Ikhlas 112
should really answer your Q.. why must you bring God down to a low common denominator?

Peace

Allah is unimaginable by human mind and thinking, He has no image in our mind while we are still in the Earth. He is the most Highest above all. He is the Creator of the Universe. He is Holy. It is simple to say that He is the Creator, the G-d whose the only One worth to be worshiped and honored. Even His names are Holy can't be chanted in filthy and dirty places. We should not question His image because it is sacred can't be reached by human lowly thinking.

He is beyond our understanding and imagination....there is nothing like him, he is all mighty. Our limited human understanding cant match such greatness and complication even if we spent our whole life trying to find out that

this another verse may answer your question as well:

Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer [11:42]

I totally agree that there is none like Allah. But we do make comparisons.

• He is almighty, omnipotent -- a comparison of Allah's might to all other examples of might and power.
• He is merciful -- we understand this because we have experienced mercy in our lives at the hands of not just Allah, but various people as well.
• He is all knowing -- I can only understand this because I know what it is to know something. No being other than a sapient being could ever declare Allah to be all knowing.

So, I don't see that making comparisons in anyway denigrates the nature of character of Allah. And while I don't believe that my imagination is even remotely capable of fully imagining the nature and character of God, still we each do form some sort of construct by which we conceive of him. If we didn't, we wouldn't even be capable of talking about him to others. So, to say that he is beyond our imagination and our understanding needs to be understood in context. It does not mean that we are incapable of thinking about God, only that we can't reach the conclusion that our understanding of him is inclusive of all there is to know with regard to him.

Further to say that Allah is, is to say that he is a being. From the Qur'an I know that he is an ominopotent being, a compassionate being, a knowing being. And making those statements with regard to Allah does not imply that he is any less because you or I might also be described as having some limited form of knowledge, compassion, or personal power. There are also some things that I know (or at least suppose) are not true about Allah. He is not greedy. He is not unfair. He is not a material being. But my question remains, from the perspective of those on this board would it be true or untrue to say that Allah is a spiritual being?

(And, please, don't take this as a question somehow connected with the Christian understanding of Holy Spirit, I don't mean that or anything close to it at all. Nor is this a statement about Allah being a created being. For, in my mind at least, it is entirely possible for Allah to be both the creator and a spiritual being; they are not mutually exclusive. But I am asking here, because it may be that Muslims see them as not being reconcilable and I am trying to find out.)

[جوري]

those aren't the nature of Allah, those are attributes that Allah swt wishes us to know about him, whereby we as individuals can relate and understand them.
Nowhere in them does it say God is flesh, or God is sentience or God is a spirit.

God only sets parables for us, but we can't conceive the being of God... I think perhaps that is why, western people often think and speak of God as if he were their high school coach, there is no reverence whatsoever!


another parable:

[24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass; the glass as it were a brilliant star: lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West, whose Oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

[Grace Seeker]

OK, so God is not spirit. (Do other Muslims agree with Skye?)

So, why do Muslims use the phrase, "spiritual things" when refering talking about Allah? How can talking about Allah be talking about spiritual things if Allah is not a spiritual being? Is it just imprecise language or is there more that I am not understanding?



Also, would it be fair to say that Allah is an eternal being?

[جوري]

OK, so God is not spirit. (Do other Muslims agree with Skye?)

So, why do Muslims use the phrase, "spiritual things" when refering talking about Allah? How can talking about Allah be talking about spiritual things if Allah is not a spiritual being? Is it just imprecise language or is there more that I am not understanding?

why don't we shift gear and you tell us where in the Quran and Sunna God is described as a 'spiritual being'?

all the best

[Grace Seeker]

why don't we shift gear and you tell us where in the Quran and Sunna God is described as a 'spiritual being'?

all the best

Because I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to learn something. I'm trying to learn how you and other Muslims understand this. I'm accepting what you are saying at face value. But it is new to my ears, even after all of this time on this board. I suppose that is why I stay. I still have things to learn. Until this thread, I thought that Muslims conceived of God as a spiritual being. Not as a created being, but a being who existed as a spiritual entity. So, if I have been wrong, I need to find out what other assumptions that are linked to that way of think that I also need to erase. I need to find out how much of it is language, how much of it is presumption on my part, and how much of it is theological baggage I carry with me from my own way of talking about God.

So, I expect to have a lot more questions than answers for a period of time.


And do you have an answer to my question about whether or not Allah can be referred to as an eternal being?

[جوري]

God is THE only eternal being!

If you have quotes from the Quran or Sunna as I have requested above that describe God as a spiritual being or a human being, then pls bring it. I can't rally go on by what you allege people conceive God to be!

all the best

[Obiwan]

Allah is eternal and this is mentioned in Baqara, 255: الله هو الحي القيوم - Allah, He is Ever-Living and Eternal

As for the question if Allah is a spritiual being or not, it depends on what you mean by spirituality. If you mean being good, fair, acting always in a right way for the benefit of yourself and for the benefit of all the creation - then Allah is unparalleled embodiment of all this. Why unparalleled? Because the human knowledge and his perceptions are limited whereas Allah is All-Knowing and All-Capable (علي كل شيء قدير)

[FatimaAsSideqah]

How does this creator create? Since He is self-sufficient, He cannot be said to depend on anything outside Himself in any actions, and cannot therefore be said to produce His effects the way natural causes do. But if He is not a natural cause, He must be a volitional agent. And since intention implies knowledge, and knowledge and intention imply life, he must be a living being. Since He is an eternal and everlasting being, all His attributes must reflect this quality; thus He must be not only knowing, but All-Knowing, not only powerful, but All-Powerful, etc.

[glo]

Because I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to learn something. I'm trying to learn how you and other Muslims understand this. I'm accepting what you are saying at face value. But it is new to my ears, even after all of this time on this board. I suppose that is why I stay. I still have things to learn. Until this thread, I thought that Muslims conceived of God as a spiritual being. Not as a created being, but a being who existed as a spiritual entity. So, if I have been wrong, I need to find out what other assumptions that are linked to that way of think that I also need to erase. I need to find out how much of it is language, how much of it is presumption on my part, and how much of it is theological baggage I carry with me from my own way of talking about God.

I agree with Grace Seeker.
This thread is giving me a whole new perspective of who Muslims perceive Allah to be.

After all this time here in LI I hadn't expected to find what I have learned so far in this thread so surprising.

Can I go back to my question if any of you can share with me how you perceive Allah to direct/guide you in your daily lives?
Through the following of the Qu'ran and Hadiths?
Through sensing a direct divina guidance - as if prompted by somebody outside your own being?
Through dreams and visions?
Through following the advice given by other, more knowledgeable Muslims?
Through emotions stirred up whilst praying?
Any, all or none of those?

Peace

[GreyKode]

Okay glo, here is how I personally am affected by ALLAH(swt),
When I am sleeping and I hear the call for prayer(particularly the dawn prayer), I keep telling myself just keep sleeping and you can pray later, but then I remember my loving God ALLAH(swt) and I feel some sort of embarrassment and shame of how while he can see me at this moment I just wanna forget him and ignore all the favors he has bestowed upon me and ignore the call for prayer, so I just flip out of bed like crazy, although feeling extremely sleepy I fight myself to get to the bathroom to perform ablution and while doing so I can tell that ALLAH(swt) through his compassion is happy
and pleased about my struggle, so I feel happy.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

GOD's Spirit comes to me when I need Him- comforting and reassuring. I am very much at peace because of GOD's Spirit. My world can be falling and failing around me but I am happy and at peace. He gives me insight when I study religion.

:sl:

{Say, "What would my Lord care for you if not for your supplication?" For you have denied, so your denial is going to be adherent.}[al-Furqan; 77]

Can I go back to my question if any of you can share with me how you perceive Allah to direct/guide you in your daily lives?

{O mankind, there has to come to you instruction from your Lord and healing for what is in the breasts and guidance and mercy for the believers.}[Yunus; 57]

I have the Qur'an, the Word of Allaah with me. Anything I need, I look into it and I find true Divine Guidance in it for all my affairs without exaggeration. It is the core of any believer.

[coddles76]

OK, so God is not spirit. (Do other Muslims agree with Skye?)

So, why do Muslims use the phrase, "spiritual things" when refering talking about Allah? How can talking about Allah be talking about spiritual things if Allah is not a spiritual being? Is it just imprecise language or is there more that I am not understanding?



Also, would it be fair to say that Allah is an eternal being?

Allah SWT has given us the faculty of understanding and he has also granted us with the powerful use of our brain, the feelings of the heart and the sense of the soul. Allah SWT does not need to send his SO CALLED spirit in order for us to remember him and have his influence in our lives. As muslims we worship Allah SWT throughout the day with prayers and supplication. Sending his spirit to remind us of him all the time would mean we all have to have a spirit 24HRS a day, which I believe is what christians believe. If that is the case, then our Souls, Heart and Mind are not in control of our sense in Allah SWT. We would have to wait for our designated spirit to remind us. I would much prefer the muslim view in that Allah SWT is on my mind and eases my heart and soul whenever I need him. He is the almighty, the ONE the only and there is none like him. He watches over me, he hears my prayers and sees my actions of goodness.

[malayloveislam]

Peace Grace Seeker

Do you mean His spirit as His angels? Or His spirit Himself? If you mean He is the One who came to Earth it means that we had degrading Him. There is no such spirit or physical form of G-d. Those things only suits creations, G-d is different, He resembles no one. We do not know how does His image look like, and it is sacred, our mind is bounded and He is unlimited. He is the Highest Power, why should He come to this filthy place? On the other hand, He can be everywhere, we do not know where He is, and it is not our problem. Plus He can monitor us everyday, anywhere without the help of those angels. They are the slaves just like us but in metaphysical form, they too have to worship Allah and obey Him. Those angels too will eventually die because they were created not the Creator. The Creator is Eternal, Boundless, Not bounded and limited by space, time, period, desires, etc. Human-being are bounded.

Muslims are taught through the scripture that Angels and Genie are in metaphysical forms. Angels are created from Lights, while Genies from Extremely hot fire. Human had physical body for they were created from Earth element which is from the dirty black mud with the spirit (soul, breath) in that physical body. Angels and Genies are hidden and can't be seen with human physical eyes, they exist in different dimension. If you think logically and scientifically too, it corresponds. We can't touch the light but we can see in the dark where there is light. We can't touch fire but we can feel the heat from the fire, we also can see fire, but Genies are hidden creature. Genie is from an Arabic term Al-Jinnu means the Hidden for a creation of G-d who are alive, they live just like human. With religions, mind to think and desires. Angels have no desire, they have no choice like G-d had granted to human and genies. Angels only worship, obey, and performing obeisance to Him. You need to do some deep reading and listening to Islamic lectures if you have interest to know about metaphysical things in Islam.

We can still see human mind is limited and bounded when they tried to imagine G-d's image thus many images of G-d being materialized in the form of idols made by wood, stone, food, and etc, while G-d had been imagined as tiger, female, male, wearing crown like a human, elephant, and etc. How do they know what G-d looks like if they never see Him? He is Holy when the Children of Israel forcing prophet Moses (pbuh) praying to G-d to reveal Himself, G-d never reveals Himself to them but only showing a little splash of the light which screening Him and it was directed to a mountain, the mountain then melted. And the stubborn Children of Israel fell down because human-being can't bear seeing Him. By only seeing some light screening Him, Human had died, how come they can bear seeing His Sacred image?

Allah guides us by making our senses sensitive. He opens our heart Himself because He is the One who control our lives by giving free spaces for us to decide. It is His will that we sense guidance and accept it. If He is not willing us to accept His guidance, we will be like those people who cruelly oppose prophet Muhammad, who are Abu Jahal, Abu Lahab, and others. They are all close relatives to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and actually his uncles, but they did not sense the guidance or giving any chance to accept it. They were deflected by evil desires such as property, rank, social status, and many things which are also associating G-d and degrading Him because they had been obsessed with those things until closing their eyes to the guidance by G-d.

[Woodrow]

Thank you for your reply, Woodrow.
And thank you that for the sake of this thread we can consider God's spirit outside the context of the trinity. :)

I appreciate the wording you use, and I can relate to it well.
"Being filled with God" seems to be very much the same thing which happened to the disciples at Pentecost.

I especially like your concept of "tuning one's own senses to become more aware of the power of God". :statisfie

Do you feel that God prompts or guides you on a personal level in daily things?

Peace

Do you feel that God prompts or guides you on a personal level in daily things?

Yes, but not in the sense of any physical type contact. I believe all knowledge we need to achieve Jannah (Heaven, Salvation Grace etc) has been revealed to all of mankind in the scripures. The Qur'an and all true scriptures can and should be seen and read as being a personal message to each of us. This message does give us the ability to guide us daily, if we take the time to reflect upon the message constantly. The guidance is there. We only need to accept it and not try to make it suit our desires.

Prayer is answered, we only need to be aware of how it is answered.

On a lesser level this can be seen as similar to guidance given to us by our parents, it is always there once given.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

yeh i defo can feel God working in my day to day life

and i depend on him quite a lot...

and he always answers my calls... always... Alhamdulillaah...

[glo]

Do you feel that God prompts or guides you on a personal level in daily things?

Yes, but not in the sense of any physical type contact. I believe all knowledge we need to achieve Jannah (Heaven, Salvation Grace etc) has been revealed to all of mankind in the scripures. The Qur'an and all true scriptures can and should be seen and read as being a personal message to each of us. This message does give us the ability to guide us daily, if we take the time to reflect upon the message constantly. The guidance is there. We only need to accept it and not try to make it suit our desires.

Thank you for your explanation, Woodrow.

If I understand you correctly, your experience is that God reveals himself and guides through scripture, as long as we have his words and guidance on our hearts and minds all the time. This seems to refer to the first item on the list I posted previously. (see below)

How much relevance, if any, would you give to the others? (I am numbering them to make referencing easier ...)

Can I go back to my question if any of you can share with me how you perceive Allah to direct/guide you in your daily lives?

1. Through the following of the Qu'ran and Hadiths?
2. Through sensing a direct divine guidance - as if prompted by somebody outside your own being?
3. Through dreams and visions?
4. Through following the advice given by other, more knowledgeable Muslims?
5. Through emotions stirred up whilst praying?
Any, all or none of those?

Peace