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LaIlahaIlaAllah
05-18-2009, 08:17 AM
Salamu Alikom everyone here

some of you might find it odd. but i'm a muslimah living in Israel.
there are about 20% palastinians here.
i'm not palastinian. i have a rare nation which is called Adyghe A.K.A Circassian.
we are about 4,000 population here in israel and we have two muslimish villages. the bigger one is much better than the other where they almost lost their way. our homeland was north caucasus, but we were banished from there after having a war with russia for 200 years around the year of 1884.
now we are spread all over the world. most of us got to the ottoman empire and we were setteled at it's boundaries because we were known as great warriors.

we are one of the oldest nations in the world. i heard awhile ago that at that time Egyptians would steal Circassian children to raise them as their warriors.
and some of the names of the kings there have meanings in my language.
but i don't know the validity of this story, i just thought that it's intresting:)

also if you watched the movie Narnia, there's a lion there that is called Aslan.
guess what Aslan means in my language.:) it means Lion.

anyway, the reason that i opened this topic is because i'm concerned.
as a muslimah living in israel, i have arab friends as well as jewish friends.
when i just met my jewish friends they had so many questions and so many misconceptions about Islam. After a year of studying with them one of them told me that because of me she started to look at islam in a different way. that she trusted me the most because of my dedication to islam and even asked me to pray for her. this girl was a warrior in the army and was an extremist muslim hater. at first she would say she wants all the muslims dead infront of me and stuff like that while we all sat together, but i remained patient. slowly she started to be more open to me and she saw how beautiful islam is, because i kept telling her why i can't do this and this with her because islam forbids me to do it and ofcourse i was also telling her the reasons for the rule.
she's not the only one. about 4 of my other friends told me how much the respected me the most. and they keep calling me untill this very day asking for my wellbeing.

i told this just to show you what a good 3ibadah can do to a person. even your "sworn enemies".

the reason i wrote from the beginning is because i see alot of Muslims commenting on Israeli forums- saying things like
"Islam Power! death to your mothers and children like the people in Gaza."

if i was not muslim and saw what they wrute there, i would never want to become a muslim.
were they not been taught the idea of islam? islam is peace. wishing people to die = not peace.

it's not that i support the jews, they are extremly wrong in alot of subjects.
i support the the muslims. but sometimes supporting is by explaining them the right way and not their actions.
still it doesn't mean i want the death of the jews.

islam is not about fighting with the Kafir.
islam is living in Harmony, with everyone. living in such a way that even the Kafirs would want to join you.
islam is beautiful. islam is being clean.

islam is compassion, whether to animals or human- men/women , black/white, poor/reach and muslim/kafir.

the death of the people in Gaza makes me cry aswell.
but wishing the suffer of others won't make us better than them.
our strength is our iman. our faith, our book and our guidance.
we were chosen by Allah to have the right path. alhamdulilah.
now it's on our shoulders to show how beautiful it is to the rest of the world.


also. i saw a documentry film made by an israeli. he took a video of the Gaza women who are in the israeli prison because they came here to suicide.
they have very wrong Shekhs there telling them that it will bring them to Heaven if they suicide for islam. should we not do something about it? how can we make them understand that they are just taking the shortcut to hell??
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glo
05-18-2009, 01:10 PM
Greetings, sister

It is lovely to read your testimony.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I am sure it will be useful for us here in LI to read and understand.

Salaam :)
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crayon
05-18-2009, 01:20 PM
Beautiful post sis, jazaki Allah khair!
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Al-Zaara
05-18-2009, 01:27 PM
Aleykum selam,

How fascinating! I had never heard of your kind before. I love history, so this is something I want to know more of inshaAllah. I even saw just now that there have been Adyghens in my homecountry, Kosovo.

In Turkish "aslan" means "lion" aswell. :D

I love this part the most, 'cause I can relate to it:

it's not that i support the jews, they are extremly wrong in alot of subjects.
i support the the muslims. but sometimes supporting is by explaining them the right way and not their actions.
still it doesn't mean i want the death of the jews.
WELCOME!
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Güven
05-18-2009, 01:39 PM
Excellent post!
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S_87
05-18-2009, 01:39 PM
:sl: and welcome sister..maybe i got what ur saying wrong but....

Whilst islam is about peace we should not just sit and let our enemies massacre us. Even in the time of Muhammed :arabic5: the muslims were insturcted to fight their enemies and Allah cast terror into their hearts

So, when you meet (in fight - Jihad in Allah's Cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam and are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight) in order to test some of you with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.
47:4

Yes this by no means means we kill every person we meet SubhanAllah, but jihad does exist and there is jihad today in this world and whilst we must remember that we should live in peace with those who we are at peace with, it doesnt mean we should sit back and let our enemies attack. :)
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convert
05-18-2009, 01:40 PM
Aren't there many instances of Circassian muslims fighting for the Israeli army against the Palestinians? How can you take as friends those who are usurping land from and committing genocide against your muslim brothers and sisters?
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Al-Zaara
05-18-2009, 01:56 PM
I went and asked my father more. He said he had met and knew some, calling those people Cherkes. He said they were tall, big and had blue eyes, reminding maybe of Russians or Chechens. :D My grandfather, may he rest in peace, was a Turkish-speaking teacher and taught Turkish, Albanian and Cherkess people in the city. My grandmother even speaks some words in your language.

JazakAllah kheyr to you, you made me learn something new today.
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HopeFul
05-18-2009, 01:58 PM
Assalamoalaikum,
i would agree with Amani, the tortures the jews have inflicted on the the palestinians almost mount up to those inflicted on the Prohpet Saw and his companions, almost...

they also retaliated, allah ash commanded to fight for our brotehrs ans sisters if hy are in need and if people try and supress you and do not let you pactice your religion freely...

Even then I think that its not acceptable in anyway to kill innocent people, I do not wish death for innocent kids and inncocent women ( as long as they don't participate in war..) but we should defnately strike back, unfprtunately we re sitting here and doing nothing..

If you can make a difference in how people look towards our religion or brotehrs and sisters in religion, then subhanAllah, why not.. you shouldn't be agressive towards people anyway if you do not have the strength and they will hurt you, or if you can reslve things by dialogue, but where dialogue fails.. force should be used too..

P.S welcome to the forums..
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crayon
05-18-2009, 02:03 PM
Oh wait, Cherkes! We call them "sharkasees" where I'm from, Syria; they're a significant minority there. Interesting!
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Soulja Girl
05-18-2009, 04:21 PM
:sl:

Welcome to LI :)

Can I just ask, what iz it liike living in Israel? Have you ever felt liike movin away to some place else cuz of all the war and stuff? :?

:w:
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glo
05-18-2009, 06:09 PM
I can't remember anybody gaining so many reputation points with their first post.
This sister's post must have struck a chord with many of us. :)
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Sister_Zee
05-18-2009, 08:01 PM
Salaam,

So if I understand correctly Circassians have been living in Palestine way before the occupation by Zionists? If so any families that were made to leave in 1948 or 1967?

Islam is a well-rounded religion it deals with every issue in life. Yes we are about harmony but anyone who tries to attack us should be stopped also. So sis Amani made a point there.

Aren’t you discriminated against? Or any other Palestinians whether Christian or Muslim? Because the amount of news everyday about how Palestinians are dealt with (well Israelis are occupiers in the end) especially in al Qudus shows things are not well there and they never have been.
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Whatsthepoint
05-19-2009, 07:09 PM
הי
שלום
ברוך הבא
ליהנות השהיה
Reply

LaIlahaIlaAllah
05-19-2009, 09:12 PM
salam everyone:)

Al-Zaara
you know what, since we are kind of losing our language, we are minority here after all, we might have taken the word Aslan from the turkish language when we arrived to the ottoman empire, silly me, i just never realized that! :)

thank you all for wellcoming me ^_^

Whilst islam is about peace we should not just sit and let our enemies massacre us. Even in the time of Muhammed the muslims were insturcted to fight their enemies and Allah cast terror into their hearts
To tell you the truth, I don't think we can have peace with Israel. But it's not true that we have to make all of it's citizen our enemies. You see, I meet a lot of Jews that are defending the name of Arabs. They are barely sounded. Some don't even dare to say it outloud.
There's this Adyghe guy here which his job is to fix air-conditioners. He once was hired by a jew, and he accidently saw the "jew" which was hiding in some room doing Salat!
Yes, what you hear:)
After that , this Adyghe brother asked him if he's muslim. The Jew brother said he was, but was hiding it from the rest.
Also, there is this jewish family which was very religious that converted to islam too.
And I want you to see this:
http://www.atzuma.co.il/petition/oshradu/1/
maybe there aren’t a lot of people who want this, but even one person is good enough for me.

Now about having a war. we should definitely not sit and do nothing. First we should do our best to make peace and if it won't work, we should do our best to keep our rights. But only in the right way, if you want Allah to support you, you need to do it the right way.
Unfortunately I see too many wrong things in the way of Gaza's army.
Now I know the Israeli army, and i know that they do a lot but A LOT of wrong things. But it breaks my heart so much more to hear how the Muslim army is doing bad things as well... the Muslims represent my faith, my way.
And my dream is to be proud at them... i don't want to hear how the Hamas and the Fath are fighting each other. i don't like hearing how they killed the israeliens they captured after torturing them...
just like it says here:
", then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden."
Our prophet pbuh said to treat them like orphans!
think that if they would have treat them like that, how would everyone look at them...everyone would see how beautiful our religion is. how much respect we would receive! How could the israeliens speak against that? Against such a divine act?

There's a rule in this war, not to fire at mosques and likewise not to fire at synagogues. Because of that rule, the Hamas are hiding their weapon in the mosque and they fire from there. The leaders hide inside hospitals and the warriors send their Katiushas while they are within the city, with the women and children. I judge them this harsh because they are muslims. I could judge the israeliens the same way and even worse, much worse, but I care more to correct my muslim brothers and sisters ways and not theirs. The Hamas is also treating it's citizen in a very bad way. So much that a muslim child helped an Israeli army go back safely. I have cried so much for the Gaza people, and I cried even more when I understood that their army who is supposed to be protecting them is only making it worse.

Yes this by no means means we kill every person we meet SubhanAllah, but jihad does exist and there is jihad today in this world and whilst we must remember that we should live in peace with those who we are at peace with, it doesnt mean we should sit back and let our enemies attack.
Sister, the biggest Jihad is fighting your inner demons. When I see muslims coming to a public place like a mall or restaurant or a buss of children and suiciding there to kill as many people as they can, do you call it jihad? I hope not.
What is right in killing innocent defenseless people? Do you not see how wrong they perceive islam there? Do you know how many muslims living in israel they killed by doing it?

Aren't there many instances of Circassian muslims fighting for the Israeli army against the Palestinians?
Indeed. I wish I could say that it's wrong, but they are. We live in such a small village, and we have such different opinions. some are very religious, some don't know what religion is all about. You see, when we were banished from Caucasia, we were pagans. We become muslim after arriving to the ottoman empire, where the Turkish showed us what islam is about. we fell inlove with it and converted, big alhamdulilah for that :) just thinking about it that I might have been a pagan now… I have to tell you that at the time of my mother, for example, they didn't know much about islam like this generation does. So some parents teached more of islam to their kids and some didn't. that's why we are pretty different people here. But I got to say that we are in a better situation now than we did then, we are less ignorant. Briefly, we are not such perfect muslims over here, I wish we were.
How can you take as friends those who are usurping land from and committing genocide against your muslim brothers and sisters?
I believe I kind of explained myself already. The way I see it - all people are potential muslims.
I can't turn my back on them just because they are jews, just because their country is doing bad to my muslim brothers and sisters. No, it's my duty to make them realize what islam really is, and then they will have a choice whether change their way of thinking from wanting death to the terrorists they think we are or to wish for peace. It turned out, so far, with all of them that they didn't understand what islam is really about. the people here genuinely think that islam teaches violence. I see it as my complete responsibility to show them the real face of islam. And I'm doing it not by saying I think this and this. I tell them, this is what the Quran says or this is what our prophet pbuh said.
And sometimes I even see them nodding their heads while I explain things, agreeing with me. Isn't that beautiful? isn't it beautiful that this girl, who were an extreme muslim hater, is telling me everything that bothers her? opening her heart to me and crying? Because I'm muslim and she trusts me? isn't it the most beautiful thing to hear someone like her telling me that because of me and another arab friend of mine that she changed her view on muslims? if that is completable, would you still decide to see them as nothing but enemies?

I went and asked my father more. He said he had met and knew some, calling those people Cherkes. He said they were tall, big and had blue eyes, reminding maybe of Russians or Chechens. My grandfather, may he rest in peace, was a Turkish-speaking teacher and taught Turkish, Albanian and Cherkess people in the city. My grandmother even speaks some words in your language.

JazakAllah kheyr to you, you made me learn something new today."
Well we don't all have blue eyes, mines are just green :P
And yes, we are also called Cherkes :)))
Most people here think we are russians, but the russians see that something is different and they are confused haha:)
Our language is going and disappearing… not many still know this language, but I'm proud to be one of them! ;)


Assalamoalaikum,
i would agree with Amani, the tortures the jews have inflicted on the the palestinians almost mount up to those inflicted on the Prohpet Saw and his companions, almost...
W3alikum asalam wra7matu allaho wbarakato.
They are very wrong. I never said they weren't, please don't understand me in a wrong way. And I'm in no way saying we should sit in quiet. But we should understand the whole situation with a different angle first of all.
Lets say you were born a Jew (thank Allah you didn't :), no offence jewish people here^_^). You see all these muslims coming and suiciding in your public places, killing mothers and children... even if you don't agree with the way the Israeli army is acting, would you not be angry, so angry on the muslims? it's the same way that now you are angry on the Jewish.
As a muslim, would you not want to make them realize what islam is really about? or just call them enemies and act to them as ones? Would you not want to show them how much we want peace? They are also people with brains, they are not that different from you. they are not animals. Allah has given them compassion too. They are just ignorant. So ignorant, and they don't realize it. But we are replying to their violence and barbarian acting the same way. So what will make them stop the israelien army from acting like it? i know what might stop OUR muslim army from acting like it, and it's Islam. What Allah wants.
Do you understand what I mean?


they also retaliated, allah ash commanded to fight for our brotehrs ans sisters if hy are in need and if people try and supress you and do not let you pactice your religion freely..
i agree with that completely.

Oh wait, Cherkes! We call them "sharkasees" where I'm from, Syria; they're a significant minority there. Interesting!
yes that's us :)


Welcome to LI

Can I just ask, what iz it liike living in Israel? Have you ever felt liike movin away to some place else cuz of all the war and stuff?
i live in a nice village, surronded with Adyghe people... feels like living inside a bubble, doesn't feel like i'm actually from israel :P
it feels different going outside the village, and you can't not to feel this kind of warmth when you come back into this little bubble;)

that's why i'm not too tempted to leave. but i sometimes dream of living in a muslim country... surronded by righteous people, with less temptations and all... sounds like a beautifull dream. one of the reasons that i long for living in heaven so much... i cannot even imagine how peaceful it will be there.

I can't remember anybody gaining so many reputation points with their first post.
This sister's post must have struck a chord with many of us.
you all are very warm and wellcoming mashaallah.:)

So if I understand correctly Circassians have been living in Palestine way before the occupation by Zionists? If so any families that were made to leave in 1948 or 1967?
true, and no we weren't made to leave. we didn't even have to serve in the army at first.

Islam is a well-rounded religion it deals with every issue in life. Yes we are about harmony but anyone who tries to attack us should be stopped also. So sis Amani made a point there.
sister , i never said anything against that, just against wishing the death of innocent people
Aren’t you discriminated against? Or any other Palestinians whether Christian or Muslim? Because the amount of news everyday about how Palestinians are dealt with (well Israelis are occupiers in the end) especially in al Qudus shows things are not well there and they never have been.
there's defintely some kind of discrimination. though as circassian i'm less discriminated. actually, once my father was in a jewish shop, and he didn't have enough money. when the shopkeeper understood that he was Circassian, he said "Why didn't you say you're circassian?? i trust circassians, they never failed me before. so you can take what you want and bring me the money later". i heard about so many incidents like that and it feels amazing!!

but this hate between the Arabs and Jews is mutual. it was there from the begging.

הי
שלום
ברוך הבא
ליהנות השהיה
are you jewish? cause it looks like you used some translating program :P
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Whatsthepoint
05-19-2009, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by lailahailaallah
are you jewish? Cause it looks like you used some translating program :p
:-[
אכן, יש לי את זה.
השתמשתי בתרגום של "גוגל", ואני מאוד נבוך כעת, התועילי בטובך לסלוח לי?
אינני יהודי, ברם אני אוהב את השפה העברית ואת האותיות
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LaIlahaIlaAllah
05-19-2009, 09:30 PM
אכן, יש לי את זה.
השתמשתי בתרגום של "גוגל", ואני מאוד נבוך כעת, התועילי בטובך לסלוח לי?
אינני יהודי, ברם אני אוהב את השפה העברית ואת האותיות
haha i knew it. it's ok, nothing to be embarassed about :)
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aadil77
05-19-2009, 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by LaIlahaIlaAllah
haha i knew it. it's ok, nothing to be embarassed about :)
so you know how to speak/read hebrew?
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Whatsthepoint
05-19-2009, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by lailahailaallah
haha i knew it. It's ok, nothing to be embarassed about :)
אני מקווה ללמוד עברית בבוא מן הימים. זאת שפה פשוט יוצאת מן הכלל
אז מהיכן את בישראל, יקירתי?
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Woodrow
05-19-2009, 09:40 PM
Welcome to the forum Sister,

There are a number of Circassians living here in the USA mostly in New Jersey. My family spoke of knowing Cherkes in Lithuania and my Grandfather told stories of what great horsemen they were. My Grandfather was a Calvary Officer, First in the Lithuanian Army and later in Russia under Czar Nicholas, most of the soldiers in his companies were Cherkes.

EDIT: I made an error I just remember he fought against Czar Nicholas and the Russians. Now, I can't remember what country besides Lithuania he was a Calvary Officer in.
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LaIlahaIlaAllah
05-19-2009, 09:51 PM
אני מקווה ללמוד עברית בבוא מן הימים. זאת שפה פשוט יוצאת מן הכלל
אז מהיכן את בישראל, יקירתי?
from a little village in the north called Kfar Kama. :)

Welcome to the forum Sister,

There are a number of Circassians living here in the USA mostly in New Jersey. My family spoke of knowing Cherkes in Lithuania and my Grandfather told stories of what great horsemen they were. My Grandfather was a Calvary Officer, First in the Lithuanian Army and later in Russia under Czar Nicholas, most of the soldiers in his companies were Cherkes.

EDIT: I made an error I just remember he fought against Czar Nicholas and the Russians. Now, I can't remember what country besides Lithuania he was a Calvary Officer in.
yea i know some circassians who live in new jersey myself:)
that's so intresting! i want to hear more about his experience!!
yea he probably fought against Russia if he fought with us :)
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Whatsthepoint
05-19-2009, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by lailahailaallah
from a little village in the north called kfar kama. :)
ובכן, אמרי לי כעת, האין זה חביב לרכוש בית במקום כה נפלא כמו כפר קאנה?
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convert
05-20-2009, 03:12 AM
We have muslim sisters who read/write in Hebrew imsad . If this isn't imitating the kuffar, I don't know what is.

What keeps your people there? How strong is the Islam in your masaajid? Do they not teach the importance of walaa and baraa?
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Woodrow
05-20-2009, 04:50 AM
Originally Posted by convert
We have muslim sisters who read/write in Hebrew imsad . If this isn't imitating the kuffar, I don't know what is.

What keeps your people there? How strong is the Islam in your masaajid? Do they not teach the importance of walaa and baraa?
Many Arabic speaking people can understand spoken Hebrew. Vocally both languages are very similar and share many common words. Nearly all Arabs in North Africa and the Mideast can read and write Hebrew as most Jews can also read and write Arabic. If you can speak Arabic, you can understand a large amount of Hebrew and Aramaic.

At one time Arabic, Aramaic and Hebrew were one language. Hebrew and Aramaic are basically dialects of Arabic.

Of course most Jews will say Arabic is a dialect of Hebrew and many Linguistic Scholars will say all three are dialects of Phonecian or Falasteen (Ancient Palastinian)
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doorster
05-20-2009, 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by convert
We have muslim sisters who read/write in Hebrew imsad . If this isn't imitating the kuffar, I don't know what is.

What keeps your people there? How strong is the Islam in your masaajid? Do they not teach the importance of walaa and baraa?
this post is more racist than Islamic, methinks! BTW you should stop speaking English forthwith lest you are accused of imitating kufaar for I suspect more kafirs speak English than they do hebrew.

oh and what could possibly have been the language of Hz. Musa Alahisalam?
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Woodrow
05-20-2009, 05:16 AM
Originally Posted by LaIlahaIlaAllah
that's so intresting! i want to hear more about his experience!!
yea he probably fought against Russia if he fought with us :)
My Grandfather passed away many years ago in 1955. I left home in 1958 and had little contact with my family for many years. I am now the oldest living person in my family and I remember very little of what my grandparents and parents told me about Lithuania

What I remember most about my Grandfather is what he taught me about horses. I was harnessing and plowing with horses by the time I was 5 years old and shoeing them by the time I was 14. Came in handy, my wife and myself raise horses.
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malayloveislam
05-20-2009, 05:27 AM
Salaam and Peace,

I would like to express my warm gesture to sisters from Israel, glad to hear that Muslim still survive in Israel. I pray Allah bless all of you and strengthen your faith toward Him. I love the post by sister Lailahaillallah, and also hope to learn Hebrew but now I will have to polish up my Quranic and Jami3a Arabic first so that it will make me easier to learn Hebrew. I hope sisters could spread the message of Peace (Islam) to the Jews, Insya-Allah. Those Sepharadim Jews are the Jews from Middle East while the Ashkhenazi are not. There are also Mitzroyim Jews from Egypt.

Originally Posted by convert View Post
We have muslim sisters who read/write in Hebrew . If this isn't imitating the kuffar, I don't know what is.
Don't be too prejudice on Jews, of course we are always being careful. Not all of them are bad. Abdullah Ben Salam during the time of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) living in Madinah al-Munawwara too is a Jew from Quraizha clan. He believe in prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prophethood after understand the verses in Torah that he learned and he himself is a Cohen (Jew Priest). Even he had tested his Jew people hypocrasy in front of prophet Muhammad (pbuh). The Jew from his clan draw tantrums on him when they know he embrace Islam and accepting prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prophethood.

It is not wrong learning Hebrew and writing in Hebrew brothers in Islam. Zaid Ben Thabet also was ordered by our holy prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to learn Hebrew and also writing in Hebrew from Jew war prisoners as the meaning to release those Jews. Both got the benefit, the Muslim and those Jew Prisoners. Muslim can spread Peace (Islam) and Jews were released without any flaw on their skin.

Hebrew is a dialect of Mesopotamian (Arabs). Jews are actually a kind of Bedouine Arabs. Bedouine people are brick head people. Stubborn, and lack of manner. That is why they don't listen to their prophets, and their prophets having hard time to teach them although with holy books.
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S_87
05-20-2009, 12:05 PM
To tell you the truth, I don't think we can have peace with Israel. But it's not true that we have to make all of it's citizen our enemies. You see, I meet a lot of Jews that are defending the name of Arabs. They are barely sounded. Some don't even dare to say it outloud.
Is it true that every Israeli joins the army at some point in their lives?

There's this Adyghe guy here which his job is to fix air-conditioners. He once was hired by a jew, and he accidently saw the "jew" which was hiding in some room doing Salat!
Yes, what you hear
After that , this Adyghe brother asked him if he's muslim. The Jew brother said he was, but was hiding it from the rest.
Alhumdulillah he was guided to Islam
Also, there is this jewish family which was very religious that converted to islam too.
And I want you to see this:
http://www.atzuma.co.il/petition/oshradu/1/
maybe there aren’t a lot of people who want this, but even one person is good enough for me.
The point is they have stolen land and are now 'willing' to share/give some back. Israel is illegal if these people really cared they would give back the land. In my opinion there can be no peace with zionists.

Now about having a war. we should definitely not sit and do nothing. First we should do our best to make peace and if it won't work, we should do our best to keep our rights. But only in the right way, if you want Allah to support you, you need to do it the right way.
Agreed.
Unfortunately I see too many wrong things in the way of Gaza's army.
Now I know the Israeli army, and i know that they do a lot but A LOT of wrong things. But it breaks my heart so much more to hear how the Muslim army is doing bad things as well... the Muslims represent my faith, my way.
Allahu A'lam oppression makes people desparate.

There's a rule in this war, not to fire at mosques and likewise not to fire at synagogues. Because of that rule, the Hamas are hiding their weapon in the mosque and they fire from there. The leaders hide inside hospitals and the warriors send their Katiushas while they are within the city, with the women and children. I judge them this harsh because they are muslims. I could judge the israeliens the same way and even worse, much worse, but I care more to correct my muslim brothers and sisters ways and not theirs. The Hamas is also treating it's citizen in a very bad way. So much that a muslim child helped an Israeli army go back safely. I have cried so much for the Gaza people, and I cried even more when I understood that their army who is supposed to be protecting them is only making it worse.
I cannot judge them for they are using these tactics with stones against an army with the most advanced weapons. From how i see, the Israelis target civilians intentionally, yes of course Hamas may hide in hospitals but one Hamas soldier in a hospital or house does not give Israeli bullies the right to blitz the entire area after the soldier has left and they are aware of it. What the zionists are doing is intentional ethnic cleansing, may Allah curse them.
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convert
05-20-2009, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
this post is more racist than Islamic, methinks! BTW you should stop speaking English forthwith lest you are accused of imitating kufaar for I suspect more kafirs speak English than they do hebrew.

oh and what could possibly have been the language of Hz. Musa Alahisalam?
not really. english is my first language, i am trying to learn arabic, and my lineage is ashkenazim. there is a huge difference here and if you cannot see it then perhaps you need to focus more carefully

last i checked, muslims are required to follow, and are under the dispensation of, Muhammad ibn Abdullah (saw) not Musa. and secondly it is offensive to compare the disgusting yahoodis of "israel" today with Musa aoudhubillah

let us not skirt around the issue: why are the circassian people buddy-buddy with the israelis? if we use the excuse "everyone is a potential muslim" then what of abu jahl? surely firawn was a potential muslim as well?
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doorster
05-20-2009, 01:02 PM
it is equally dumb to equate disgusting perverted "muslims" of Arabia with those Muslims of Muhammad ibn Abdullah's time (P.B.U.H.)
let us not skirt around the issue: why are the circassian people buddy-buddy with the israelis? if we use the excuse "everyone is a potential muslim" then what of abu jahl? surely firawn was a potential muslim as well?
Christian wife of an LI-Staff member became a Muslimah on her deathbed

last i checked, muslims are required to follow, and are under the dispensation of, Muhammad ibn Abdullah (saw) not Musa. and secondly it is offensive to compare the disgusting yahoodis of "israel" today with Musa aoudhubillah
changing one's name (or religious label) then proceeding to terrorise the creation does not make a Muslim, the only people who go wild on mention of Hz. Musa Alahisalam are some wahbi-cum-Qutbi retards, I had the displeasure and misfortune of knowing in my former country
"israel"
have you ever opened a Quran and looked inside? if you had there would be no need to put quote marks around the name Israel
Reply

Thinker
05-20-2009, 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by LaIlahaIlaAllah
anyway, the reason that i opened this topic is because i'm concerned.
as a muslimah living in israel, i have arab friends as well as jewish friends.
when i just met my jewish friends they had so many questions and so many misconceptions about Islam. After a year of studying with them one of them told me that because of me she started to look at islam in a different way. that she trusted me the most because of my dedication to islam and even asked me to pray for her. this girl was a warrior in the army and was an extremist muslim hater. at first she would say she wants all the muslims dead infront of me and stuff like that while we all sat together, but i remained patient. slowly she started to be more open to me and she saw how beautiful islam is, because i kept telling her why i can't do this and this with her because islam forbids me to do it and ofcourse i was also telling her the reasons for the rule.
she's not the only one. about 4 of my other friends told me how much the respected me the most. and they keep calling me untill this very day asking for my wellbeing.

Is this not an example of what I have been promoting on this forum – integration encourages understanding and tolerance. Well done to Laila . . . I don’t know old you are but your wise words reveals some of your brothers and sisters on this forum to be wanting in that department.
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convert
05-20-2009, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
it is equally dumb to equate disgusting perverted "muslims" of Arabia with those Muslims of Muhammad ibn Abdullah's time (P.B.U.H.)
wife of an LI-Staff member became a Muslimah on her deathbed

changing one's name then proceeding to terrorise the creation does not make a Muslim, only people who go wild on mention of Hz. Musa Alehisalam are some wahbi-cum-Qutbi retards I had the displeasure and misfortune of knowing in my former country
have you ever opened a Quran and looked inside? if you had there would be no need to put quote marks around the name Israel
1. i'm not letting anyone off the hook anywhere, especially muslims who are not on the haqq

2. i call myself a muslim, not a "wahbi-cum-Qutbi". do you call yourself a modernist? never changed my name or style of dress either. also, i will remember that retard comment and will extract my ajr on yawm al qiyamah:thumbs_up

3. nah... Quran? whats that? maybe i oughta check it out! :rollseyes
3a. so i am to compare a secular athiest state who doesn't even follow jewish law to that of bani israel?

look you can be all lovey-dovey all you want, thats your prerogative. when muslims don't follow their deen and become chattle and disrespected then we all have a problem.
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Intisar
05-20-2009, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by convert
We have muslim sisters who read/write in Hebrew imsad . If this isn't imitating the kuffar, I don't know what is.

What keeps your people there? How strong is the Islam in your masaajid? Do they not teach the importance of walaa and baraa?
:sl: How is speaking and writing in Hebrew imitating the kufaar? :?

By learning a language other cultures speak, can that not be a means of bringing people to Islam (da'wah)?
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convert
05-20-2009, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by Ameena*
:sl: How is speaking and writing in Hebrew imitating the kufaar? :?

By learning a language other cultures speak, can that not be a means of bringing people to Islam (da'wah)?
Perspective: a Cham (muslims from Vietnam and Cambodia) scholar told me that his people refuse to eat with chopsticks because that, to them, is imitating the kuffar (i.e. A PEOPLE THAT USURPED MUSLIM LAND AND KILLED THEM IN DROVES BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS) and they take that very seriously.
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convert
05-20-2009, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
It is sunnah to eat with the hands, anyway. I honestly do not see how you think speaking hebrew comes under imitating the disbelievers. That is stretching it. A lot.
You have to keep in mind that the Cham people were cut off from the muslim world for centuries and they are only just now getting proper dawah. But they still knew walaa and baraa.

Its house negro syndrome.
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Intisar
05-20-2009, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by convert
Perspective: a Cham (muslims from Vietnam and Cambodia) scholar told me that his people refuse to eat with chopsticks because that, to them, is imitating the kuffar (i.e. A PEOPLE THAT USURPED MUSLIM LAND AND KILLED THEM IN DROVES BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS) and they take that very seriously.
I don't really think that answers my question, you've brought up a different example. And like Alpha dude said, it's sunnah to eat with your hands anyway.

What about those Israeli Jews that speak their native tongue, Hebrew, who are Muslim? Should they stop speaking their language all together because that is ''imitating the kufaar''?
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doorster
05-20-2009, 04:07 PM
Its house negro syndrome.
you ain't a likeness of Br. Malcolm so Stop pretence of piety and stop hurling accusations!

But they still knew walaa and baraa.
I hope none learns it from fazwan of saudia (i.e hate the non-Muslim and be his enemy) which is so wrong that a two page essay wont be enough to explain (not that anyone here is going to bother reading it)
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convert
05-20-2009, 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by Ameena*
I don't really think that answers my question, you've brought up a different example. And like Alpha dude said, it's sunnah to eat with your hands anyway.

What about those Israeli Jews that speak their native tongue, Hebrew, who are Muslim? Should they stop speaking their language all together because that is ''imitating the kufaar''?
Is their language originally Hebrew though?
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convert
05-20-2009, 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
you ain't no Br. Malcolm so Stop pretence of piety and stop hurling accusations!
Never said I was but when you examine the situation, its clear what the deal is. Speaking of accusations, you gonna take back that smart remark about "wahbi-cum Qutbi retard" or will I have to extract it from you yawm-al-qiyamah?

Its a shame he got booted from Youtube by that JIDF cabal but a Palestinian brother who went by the name Memfian had a series of videos explaining what exactly was happening wrt Circassian muslims in Israel.
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Woodrow
05-20-2009, 05:17 PM
We all should be ashamed of our selves, turning a person's introduction into a war over the issue of speaking Hebrew.
Reply

ragdollcat1982
05-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by HopeFul
Assalamoalaikum,
i would agree with Amani, the tortures the jews have inflicted on the the palestinians almost mount up to those inflicted on the Prohpet Saw and his companions, almost...

they also retaliated, allah ash commanded to fight for our brotehrs ans sisters if hy are in need and if people try and supress you and do not let you pactice your religion freely...

Even then I think that its not acceptable in anyway to kill innocent people, I do not wish death for innocent kids and inncocent women ( as long as they don't participate in war..) but we should defnately strike back, unfprtunately we re sitting here and doing nothing..

If you can make a difference in how people look towards our religion or brotehrs and sisters in religion, then subhanAllah, why not.. you shouldn't be agressive towards people anyway if you do not have the strength and they will hurt you, or if you can reslve things by dialogue, but where dialogue fails.. force should be used too..

P.S welcome to the forums..





I think there is enough blame to go around in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I was outraged at the Israelis latest attack on Gaza, it was uncalled for and a good number of Christians were killed along with Muslims. I do not believe in violence as a Christian as Jesus taught peace. My grandfather was in the Army in WW2 and helped liberate several of the camps including Dachoud. The Jews clearly throughout history have been persecuted. I am not defending the actions of Israel as I think they are milking the Holocaust for all it is worth and I consider that defiling the memory of the 6 million who were killed. It seemed that before the state of Israel was established the People of the Book all peacefully coexisted together. We are all children of the same God we share a history. I get so scared when I hear talk of war and violence and death. I could not ever kill a human being except in self defense and I would still be eaten up with guilt. I know that sometimes war is needed to preserve the peace, but Israel does not represent all Jews of the world, just like terrorist and extremnist do not represent even a small minute fraction of the Muslim population.
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glo
05-20-2009, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I think there is enough blame to go around in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I was outraged at the Israelis latest attack on Gaza, it was uncalled for and a good number of Christians were killed along with Muslims. I do not believe in violence as a Christian as Jesus taught peace. My grandfather was in the Army in WW2 and helped liberate several of the camps including Dachoud. The Jews clearly throughout history have been persecuted. I am not defending the actions of Israel as I think they are milking the Holocaust for all it is worth and I consider that defiling the memory of the 6 million who were killed. It seemed that before the state of Israel was established the People of the Book all peacefully coexisted together. We are all children of the same God we share a history. I get so scared when I hear talk of war and violence and death. I could not ever kill a human being except in self defense and I would still be eaten up with guilt. I know that sometimes war is needed to preserve the peace, but Israel does not represent all Jews of the world, just like terrorist and extremnist do not represent even a small minute fraction of the Muslim population.
Great post, ragdollcat. I very much agree with you.

Peace :)
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Whatsthepoint
05-20-2009, 09:29 PM
She lives in Israel for heaven's sake, how could she possibly do without hebrew?
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witness
05-20-2009, 10:09 PM
^^:D walk around with an interpreter?

We have muslim sisters who read/write in Hebrew . If this isn't imitating the kuffar, I don't know what is.
and the chopstick thing..

Unless its blatantly obvious its from another religion ....don't things like this just depend on the intention of the person ?
Reply

doorster
05-20-2009, 10:27 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by witness
^^:D walk around with an interpreter?

and the chopstick thing..

Unless its blatantly obvious its from another religion ....don't things like this just depend on the intention of the person ?
I think using chopsticks is as "anti-Sunnat" as driving a car on streets of Leeds (in preference to camel or horse riding) is.

me likes this video by an associate of Dr. Naik @ Al Sunnah - Meaning and Types

:w:
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malayloveislam
05-21-2009, 09:08 AM
I speak Malay. Malay in ancient time is used to spread Mahayana Buddhism. Am I a Kafir too?
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LaIlahaIlaAllah
05-21-2009, 10:36 AM
Brother Convert,

I understand where your anger is coming from, but "for me, words are a form of action, capable of influencing change."

Learning another language is acquiring more knowledge, not imitating the people who are using the language.
Knowledge, as you know, is very important in Islam.
Muhammed pbuh said:
"Go in quest of knowledge even unto China."
"Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave. "
"One learned man is harder on the devil than a thousand ignorant worshippers."
"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."
"The acquisition of knowledge is a duty incumbent one every Muslim, male and female. "
"Who are the learned? They who practise what they know."

and that's what i'm trying to do with what i know. trying to use it for a good 3ibadah Inshallah.


"All God's creatures are His family; and he is the most beloved of God who doeth most good to God's creatures. "

and what is better than showing Kafirs the beautiful ways of Islam?

do you understand this?
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convert
05-21-2009, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by malayloveislam
I speak Malay. Malay in ancient time is used to spread Mahayana Buddhism. Am I a Kafir too?
You all seem to not be able to understand an analogy. Muslims in muslim lands assimilating to non-muslim entities who have usurped their land is what I am talking about. You all just want to argue and not think.
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*KB*
05-21-2009, 10:48 AM
:sl:

:)

"islam is not about fighting with the Kafir.
islam is living in Harmony, with everyone. living in such a way that even the Kafirs would want to join you.
islam is beautiful. islam is being clean.

islam is compassion, whether to animals or human- men/women , black/white, poor/reach and muslim/kafir."
LaIlahaIlaAllah

Sister LaIlahaIlaAllah, :welcome:, Enjoy your stay and that quote is one that is true and should be followed. May Allah bless everyone :)

:sl:
*KB*
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convert
05-21-2009, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by LaIlahaIlaAllah
Brother Convert,

I understand where your anger is coming from, but "for me, words are a form of action, capable of influencing change."

Learning another language is acquiring more knowledge, not imitating the people who are using the language.
Knowledge, as you know, is very important in Islam.
Muhammed pbuh said:
"Go in quest of knowledge even unto China."
"Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave. "
"One learned man is harder on the devil than a thousand ignorant worshippers."
"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."
"The acquisition of knowledge is a duty incumbent one every Muslim, male and female. "
"Who are the learned? They who practise what they know."

and that's what i'm trying to do with what i know. trying to use it for a good 3ibadah Inshallah.


"All God's creatures are His family; and he is the most beloved of God who doeth most good to God's creatures. "

and what is better than showing Kafirs the beautiful ways of Islam?

do you understand this?
A lot of those sayings, to my understanding, are weak or fabricated.

If you are spreading dawah, mashaAllah. I just cannot get over the fact you have muslims willingly in the IDF and doing all they can to make nice with that regime.
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*KB*
05-21-2009, 10:54 AM
:sl: and Peace to all

Originally Posted by convert
Perspective: a Cham (muslims from Vietnam and Cambodia) scholar told me that his people refuse to eat with chopsticks because that, to them, is imitating the kuffar (i.e. A PEOPLE THAT USURPED MUSLIM LAND AND KILLED THEM IN DROVES BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS) and they take that very seriously.
What I do not understand is that why are people like this? "Imitating kuffars" That could be said to be playing football (kaffars play it) going to shops (kaffars do it).

If we are muslims in our hearts then that is what we are. Only Allah knows who are true and who are doing the right things to go to heaven. These are just beliefs, people's beliefs are all different.

We all are going to die one day. Allah only knows when.

May Allah bless everone and anyone :)

:sl:
*KB*
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LaIlahaIlaAllah
05-21-2009, 11:07 AM
ok brother, Let me show you from the Quran then and not from the Hadiths.

“… Say: Are those who know equal to those who know not? It is only men of understanding who will remember.” Q39:9.

“They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord. And of knowledge it is only a little that is given to you (O mankind!).” Q17:85.
“…Now such were their houses in utter ruin because they practiced wrongdoing. Verily in this is a SIGN FOR PEOPLE OF KNOWLEDGE.” Q27:52.

“And such are the Parables We set for mankind but none will understand them except those who have Knowledge.” Q29:43.

“Those truly fear Allah among His Servants who HAVE KNOWLEDGE: for Allah is Exalted in Might Oft-Forgiving.” Q35:28.

“High above all is Allah the King, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to thee is completed but say "O my Lord! INCREASE ME IN KNOWLEDGE." Q20:114



Our beloved prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: “The seeking of knowledge is obligatory for every Muslim…” (Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 218)

The prophet (PBUH) used to supplicate: "O Allah, I seek refuge in Thee from four things: KNOWLEDGE WHICH DOES NOT PROFIT, a heart which is not submissive, a soul which has an insatiable appetite, and a supplication which is not heard." (Sunan of Abu-Dawood hadith 1543)

“O Allah, I ask Thee for BENEFICIAL KNOWLEDGE, acceptable action, and good provision." (Al-Tirmidhi Hadith Hadith 2487).
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convert
05-21-2009, 11:24 AM
I am not going to post anymore in this thread since there is a lot of fitnah and I am taking the thread off focus. I apologize to the sister if I insulted her in any way. The situation, the way it was explained to me by a Palestinian brother weighs heavily on my judgement.

Also sister: I am in no way suggesting that the occupiers do not deserve dawah. There are many brothers who came to Islam from judaism, quite a few in my masjid as well. I just have a problem with the way some people go about it. May Allah make you a means to guide these people to Islam. I mean, if the mongols and myself (a former staunch GOP fanboy) can be guided to Islam than anyone can.

I will leave you all with this though:

Narrated Abu Sa'id (May Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

"Surely, you will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, in everything as one arrow resembles another, (i.e. just like them), so much so that even if they entered a hole of a sand-lizard, you would enter it."

They said, "O Allah's Messenger! Do you mean to say that we will follow the Jews and the Christians?"

He replied, "Whom else?" (meaning, of course the Jews and the Christians)."


(Recorded authentically in Sahih Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
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LaIlahaIlaAllah
05-21-2009, 11:48 AM
Originally Posted by convert
A lot of those sayings, to my understanding, are
I just cannot get over the fact you have muslims willingly in the IDF and doing all they can to make nice with that regime.
The most who serve the army are Ignorant. Lately we have teen forum over here just for islam , mashallah, and the knowledge is growing.

take me for example, i didn't know much about islam when i was younger.
my friends told me about this meeting for girls that was going to be in my village, and some girl taught us about us about islam. she made us all cry there with the stories about muhammed pbuh and the stories of the sahabas.

i don't know if you know it but in villages there's always rumors about people, everyone knows each other and everyone talks about each other. when she talked with us of how bad it is to talk about another,
"Behold, you received it on your tongues, and said out of your mouths things which you had no knowledge; and you thought it to be a light matter, while it was most serious in the sight of God (24: 15) "


and one of my friends started talking about someone the rest would stop her from saying it. i have such great friends alhamdulilah:)

after going to these meeting every week my knowledge about islam became much bigger and so was my love for islam. i began reading about islam in books and the internet, and i would actually tell others, including my jewish friends what i learned.

but not everyone was fortune as i am. most are ignorant. but after making that forum, most of the guys here fought to leave the army. some went to jail but they left. I can not be angry on them, all i feel for them is pity, for they don't know the consequences of their actions.

today i'm in a situation where i know more than my parents do. my father even told me the other day- you and your sisters are better than us.
i even preach to them sometimes about things. :P

i pray that it will change for the better in the future and that people here will be more acknowledge about islam, inshallah.

I am not going to post anymore in this thread since there is a lot of fitnah and I am taking the thread off focus. I apologize to the sister if I insulted her in any way. The situation, the way it was explained to me by a Palestinian brother weighs heavily on my judgement.
i am not insulted, don't worry about it. you are very angry on Israel and so am I. but tolerance is the name of the "game". they could be angry on me the same way you are on them. muslims did kill them too. there was an attack on Haifa, and that's where i study. think about that.
but how can they change their view on muslims if hate is all they see from us?
and i will leave you with this:

“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by God! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are declared to be protected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

“Muslim and Non-Muslims, Face-to-Face”, Ahmad Sakr. Foundation for Islamic Knowledge, Lombard IL.
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doorster
05-21-2009, 02:32 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Woodrow
We all should be ashamed of our selves, turning a person's introduction into a war over the issue of speaking Hebrew.
That indeed is a strange and somewhat saddening observation. I request that you take another look.

:w:
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glo
05-21-2009, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
We all should be ashamed of our selves, turning a person's introduction into a war over the issue of speaking Hebrew.
Amen to that, Woodrow.

I hope and pray that LaIlahaIlaAllah feels welcome in this forum ...
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doorster
05-21-2009, 02:40 PM
hmm..

Ingratiate: Bring oneself into favour with someone by flattering or trying to please them
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Woodrow
05-21-2009, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
:sl:That indeed is a strange and somewhat saddening observation. I request that you take another look.

:w:
:sl:

No matter how I look at it. We managed to turn an introduction into a debate.

But, this question about learning languages could be a very good topic for World Affairs or General. Perhaps somebody will take the initiative to start one.
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doorster
05-21-2009, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
:sl:

No matter how I look at it. We managed to turn an introduction into a debate.

But, this question about learning languages could be a very good topic for World Affairs or General. Perhaps somebody will take the initiative to start one.
walaikum Salam, I think I somewhat understand that now but still like to say that we should combat hate mongers no matter what thread/forum/venue they pop-up at. However I do apologise for not being able to understand your methods

Wasalam
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Woodrow
05-21-2009, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
walaikum Salam, I think I somewhat understand that now but still like to say that we should combat hate mongers no matter what thread/forum/venue they pop-up at. However I do apologise for not being able to understand your methods

Wasalam
:sl:
No apology needed I do tend to confuse everybody.

I do seem to have the ability to turn the easy into something complex and not understandable.
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