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Grace Seeker
05-21-2009, 09:31 PM
I was reading in another thread and I saw where one of our Muslim members I respect posted the following definition of worship:

What does taking(someone,something) as a god in Islam means?

  • To believe in him,her,it as the creator.
  • or to believe that he,she,it would influence your life or life of others directly or indirectly in a way that only God is able to....
  • or Calling upon others besides Allah for help,or intercession.
With that definition I can see how one would think that many of the ritals of certain Christian groups (for instance veneration of Mary or asking saints to inteceede for one with God) would be understood by Muslims as worship, and yet I am also sure those Christians do not view nor intend those rituals as acts of worship which they would reserve (in their mind) for God alone.


What are some other terms you have encountered that we need to learn to identify as perhaps having different meanings depending on one's faith background?
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- Qatada -
05-22-2009, 05:08 PM
The problem is that there are no firm definitions for worship in christianity.
Reply

AntiKarateKid
05-22-2009, 07:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I was reading in another thread and I saw where one of our Muslim members I respect posted the following definition of worship:



With that definition I can see how one would think that many of the ritals of certain Christian groups (for instance veneration of Mary or asking saints to inteceede for one with God) would be understood by Muslims as worship, and yet I am also sure those Christians do not view nor intend those rituals as acts of worship which they would reserve (in their mind) for God alone.


What are some other terms you have encountered that we need to learn to identify as perhaps having different meanings depending on one's faith background?
There are some problems with this though.

1. Who is to say what you consider worship is even the right one? I do not remember most Jews offering prayers to any figure but Yahweh.

2. Whether their actions are done out of ignorance or misdirected intentions doesn't change what they are in reality.
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Follower
05-22-2009, 09:21 PM
graceseeker - I think you need to define veneration of Mary.

I just had a thread closed because of my statement that Muslims do to the Kaaba what Cathoilcs do to the statue of Mary. Immediately I was accused of saying that Muslims worship the kaaba which I know is not correct.

I repeat that I know that Muslims do not worship the kaaba and in fact Catholics do not worship Mary or her statue.
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Zafran
05-22-2009, 11:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
graceseeker - I think you need to define veneration of Mary.

I just had a thread closed because of my statement that Muslims do to the Kaaba what Cathoilcs do to the statue of Mary. Immediately I was accused of saying that Muslims worship the kaaba which I know is not correct.

I repeat that I know that Muslims do not worship the kaaba and in fact Catholics do not worship Mary or her statue.
The Kabba is a Qibla - is mary a qibla for you or for the people who "venerate" Mary?

Just to add nobody sees the Kabba as an intercessor or a helping thing - pity the same cannot be said for the people that use mary as an intercessor.
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czgibson
05-22-2009, 11:32 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
What are some other terms you have encountered that we need to learn to identify as perhaps having different meanings depending on one's faith background?
As well as words like 'God' and 'religion', which are obviously going to be understood in different ways, the word 'Proof' is often used in wildly different ways by different groups on the forum, as are other words like 'Science' and 'Terrorism'.

Ultimately, language means what we want it to mean. Constructing definitions for abstract terms like this may not help anything: the meaning of each one depends only on what the speaker uses it to mean.

Peace
Reply

doorster
05-23-2009, 12:39 AM
banging head on brickwall hurt head but leave wall intact
Reply

YusufNoor
05-23-2009, 05:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I was reading in another thread and I saw where one of our Muslim members I respect posted the following definition of worship:



With that definition I can see how one would think that many of the ritals of certain Christian groups (for instance veneration of Mary or asking saints to inteceede for one with God) would be understood by Muslims as worship, and yet I am also sure those Christians do not view nor intend those rituals as acts of worship which they would reserve (in their mind) for God alone.


What are some other terms you have encountered that we need to learn to identify as perhaps having different meanings depending on one's faith background?
perhaps one could define "Bible," as to what "historically" is the Bible. it's just a book right, biblios is Greek for "book" and IN NO WAY means from God, inspired by God or written by God, just a book? and nothing authoritative about it! and there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that is is "from God."

i mean it's confusing for Muslims that Christians refer to the "Bible" as thought they have PROOF that it is from God, when in fact, it is just a book. they cannot say who wrote half of the books of the NT, and they cannot apply a single provable date to when any of it was written! and Christians have written and changed whatever is in there to make it say whatever they want it to.

so when a Christian says, "it's in the Bible!"; well that doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans now, does it?

why don't Christians just own up and say, "you see here, we have this book. we like to pretend it is from God. OF COURSE there's not the smallest, slightest scintilla of PROOF for it, but we like to pretend it is so".

that way there, no Muslims here will be confused about this thing called "the Bible", they can just dismiss any claims by it as UNRELIABLE and UNFOUNDED by FACT! actually it would be nice to see this as a disclaimer for all of the Christian posts here. at least we might think that they are being honest.

yes, i do believe we should should define things here!

and how about trinity while we are at it, eh? just admit it means 3 Gods, but you PREFER to PRETEND that you are monotheistic! at least be truthful!

and while we are at it, could you STOP calling God the Father, God the Father; i mean your own creed, says that the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus and not "God the Father." see here:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

Amen.
i mean come on, don;t you think that "as a God", the "Son" has a right to know who his father really is? or do we need to define father, too?

this thread just might serve some good, after all!

:w:
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Follower
05-24-2009, 10:48 PM
Good point Zaphran - Mary is the perfect example of a follower of GOD, the kaaba is an inanimate object. No we do not need to face in any direction to pray to GOD.

Yusef - The Holy Bible is the Word of GOD-Holy Scripture. There is a slight difference between the way the Quran and Bible were revealed.

I understand the Quran is believed to have been revealed word by word for Mohammad to memorize. Mohammad was illiterate, it would have been difficult for him to put revelaed concepts into a coherent message.

The men in charge of receiving the the revelation of the Holy Bible were learned, literate, they were capable of putting the concepts given to them by GOD into coherent sentences on their own using the language common in that time and place.

Another understanding is that Mohammad had no eyewitnesses concerning revelations. The Holy Bibile has eyewitnesses throughout.
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YusufNoor
05-25-2009, 02:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Yusef - The Holy Bible is the Word of GOD-Holy Scripture.

show us your proof!

There is a slight difference between the way the Quran and Bible were revealed.

actually, the Qur'an was revealed. now is your "Book" revealed or written by eyewitness. if you say revealed, you admit to no eyewitnesses!

I understand the Quran is believed to have been revealed word by word for Mohammad to memorize. Mohammad was illiterate, it would have been difficult for him to put revelaed concepts into a coherent message.
.
that is not a defense of what you call, the Book. and the Qur'an is the MOST eloquent Arabic EVER! EVER! NEVER EVER has it been bested as to style or content! if you are in doubt, produce one your self!

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
The men in charge of receiving the the revelation of the Holy Bible were learned, literate, they were capable of putting the concepts given to them by GOD into coherent sentences on their own using the language common in that time and place.
what men? with the exception of some letters by Paul NO ONE KNOWS who wrote the vast majority of what you call the New Testament!

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Another understanding is that Mohammad had no eyewitnesses concerning revelations. The Holy Bibile has eyewitnesses throughout.

NONE of the Gospel writers were eyewitness to the life of Jesus. IF you believe so, show your proof!
how do type or see the computer screen with your head so far up your ....? is it through your navel?

you just can't make stuff up about the Qur'an and deem it to be true! there WERE witnesses to revelation! AND to Gibreel!

:w:
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Follower
05-25-2009, 01:49 PM
I have mentioned it many times before and I do not want to change topic yet again! LOL!! I will start a thread on it.
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جوري
05-25-2009, 05:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor
what men? with the exception of some letters by Paul NO ONE KNOWS who wrote the vast majority of what you call the New Testament!

:w:
he keeps using that point, which actually tells me he hasn't read any replies given to him as I specifically stated that there were several instances when the wahy was received or came while others were present.. once with Ibn um Maktum (who was blind) verse 4:95
and other instances with the sahaba present Gabriel pbuh assumed the shape of a man to teach them of their religion..

other than quoting bulk volumes of nonsense from 'the good book' and repeating the same crap over and over, I really don't understand his point it is bordering on a mental illness..

even as an evangelist he isn't effective, sob7an Allah, he actually ends up doing opposite of what he sets out to do, as he reminds me of the folks who sentence to death Galileo and others for daring to mouth a solid point of view.. parroting evangelist nonsense over and over, you'd think they'd at least ask Muslims so when they come all evangel-happy we'd see the light and they wouldn't be met with such defeat?..

still in the age of the moon gods and mary getting pregnant out of eating dates ey? Who are they fooling? other than themselves that is?

:w:
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Zafran
05-25-2009, 06:45 PM
Salaam

The evangelical missionires just make us not want to be a christian - especially the silly stuff they say and come up with. Your right

Who are they fooling? other than themselves that is?
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-26-2009, 12:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor
perhaps one could define "Bible," as to what "historically" is the Bible. it's just a book right, biblios is Greek for "book" and IN NO WAY means from God, inspired by God or written by God, just a book? and nothing authoritative about it! and there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that is is "from God."

i mean it's confusing for Muslims that Christians refer to the "Bible" as thought they have PROOF that it is from God, when in fact, it is just a book. they cannot say who wrote half of the books of the NT, and they cannot apply a single provable date to when any of it was written! and Christians have written and changed whatever is in there to make it say whatever they want it to.

so when a Christian says, "it's in the Bible!"; well that doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans now, does it?
:w:
You are correct in suggesting that when Christians say "it's in the Bible" it really only has meaning for those who accept the Bible as authoritative. Of course, I suggest the same holds true for any text that purports to be sacred scripture, be it the sacred texts of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, or communism for that matter -- those who hold their texts as authoritative will certainly read them differently than those who do not.

So, I think it is a good idea to discuss what we mean by the Bible. Now, we have a similar thread going on elsewhere, so I don't want to repeat that. But I do think that it is important to note that when Christians speak of the Bible we too mean a book. But we don't mean the book you take off of the shelf. We don't mean the thousands of different translations that it is available in. We mean that collection of writings which, if we had their original autographs, we would collectively hold to be a library of what God wanted the church to have.

I think that sometimes Muslims look at the latter editions of the Bible, the various copies that were produced by scribes, copyists, editors, and publishers and think that is what we mean by the Bible. We don't mean the Bible by those things any more than a Muslim would speak of an interpretation by Yusufali, Picthal, or Shakir as actually being the Qur'an.

On the other hand, I think we Christians forget that different traditions within Christendom do have different sets of books that they consider canonical, and that Muslims do have a point when they ask of Christians, "which Bible?, for the different lists of books suggest that Christianity has more than one view of what is and is not authoritative. The count of "different Bibles" isn't in the thousands as some like to suggest by posting lists naming every type of translation, but there is a difference between Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant canons.
Reply

Follower
05-27-2009, 01:50 PM
Many Christians and Muslims don't realize that in the 2nd century many false "gospels" were written. One group with their own false gospels-gnostics who believed that knowledge is salvation, spirit is good and flesh is evil, they were into asceticism and hedonism. There was a false gospel written about Mary that encouraged the worship of Mary.

The point though is that Christians know which ones are true and which are false, they easlily recognized, they were written too long after the true Gospel, they use language or thoughts that place them at a later date, the church fathers never quoted from or referenced them, etc.

The Council of Jerusalem was called in the early 50'sAD because the of false gospel of legalism was appearing. There was a guestion about uncircumsized Gentiles being able to share the Euharist with circumcised Jews.

Shortly Council of Jerusalem date Christian Gnosticism got started, even though there were Jewish Gnostics before Christianity.
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Grace Seeker
05-28-2009, 07:02 PM
Another set of terms that I think we must be careful about are those regarding the Angel Gabriel and the Holy Spirit. It seems that because in both the Islamic and Christian stories of the conception of Jesus that it is the Angel Gabriel who makes the announcement of her going to have a son, Jesus, and then the Christian Bible says that it happens with the coming of the Holy Spirit upon Mary that she actually become pregnant, therefore some Muslims (certainly not all) infer that the Holy Spirit and the Angel Gabriel might be one and the same.

(Admittedly, I might be incorrectly projecting the reasoning process here, but I do see this conclusion on these threads frequently.)

I think it is important to realize that to Christians these are two completely different beings. Gabriel is an angel and nothing more. The Holy Spirit is one of three persons of the Godhead. I realize that such a thing is shirk to Muslims, so I would be curious as whether or not Muslims even have a concept of God's spirit or a spirit of God (intentionally written with small "s" here) within Islamic teaching?
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Follower
05-28-2009, 07:51 PM
Gossamer yes you say this but go no further- "he keeps using that point, which actually tells me he hasn't read any replies given to him as I specifically stated that there were several instances when the wahy was received or came while others were present"

Did the others hear Gabriel? What did the others that heard Gabriel write? Did they see Gabriel?

"Gabriel pbuh assumed the shape of a man to teach them of their religion."

Interesting that in Islam an angel can assume the shape of a man but GOD is incapable?!? Or is it that He doensn't want to bother with it?

In the Holy Bible the angels always seem to appear in human form.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2009, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Gossamer yes you say this but go no further- "he keeps using that point, which actually tells me he hasn't read any replies given to him as I specifically stated that there were several instances when the wahy was received or came while others were present"

Did the others hear Gabriel? What did the others that heard Gabriel write? Did they see Gabriel?

"Gabriel pbuh assumed the shape of a man to teach them of their religion."

Interesting that in Islam an angel can assume the shape of a man but GOD is incapable?!? Or is it that He doensn't want to bother with it?

In the Holy Bible the angels always seem to appear in human form.

Who said anything about God being 'incapable' .. we have said it is beneath him to be as you ascribe to him!
once you are able to draw the line between creator and creation can we have this conversation, until then, I have no interest in descending to word play!

all the best
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doorster
05-28-2009, 11:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Another set of terms that I think we must be careful about are those regarding the Angel Gabriel and the Holy Spirit. It seems that because in both the Islamic and Christian stories of the conception of Jesus that it is the Angel Gabriel who makes the announcement of her going to have a son, Jesus, and then the Christian Bible says that it happens with the coming of the Holy Spirit upon Mary that she actually become pregnant, therefore some Muslims (certainly not all) infer that the Holy Spirit and the Angel Gabriel might be one and the same.

(Admittedly, I might be incorrectly projecting the reasoning process here, but I do see this conclusion on these threads frequently.)

I think it is important to realize that to Christians these are two completely different beings. Gabriel is an angel and nothing more. The Holy Spirit is one of three persons of the Godhead. I realize that such a thing is shirk to Muslims, so I would be curious as whether or not Muslims even have a concept of God's spirit or a spirit of God (intentionally written with small "s" here) within Islamic teaching?


In Quran Hz Jibreel Alahesalam is Ruh al Quds

Ruh [روح] : Soul


Dictionary:
noun
  1. soul
  2. essence
  3. spirit
  4. pneuma (breath)
  5. psyche
  6. life
  7. ghost
  8. shade


Quds [قدس] Holy

Dictionary:
verb
  1. consecrate
  2. hallow
  3. officiate
  4. sanctify


Ruh al Quds [الروح القدس] translates to "The Holy Spirit"
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Follower
05-29-2009, 11:44 AM
doorster let's take the definitions one step further:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Holy%20Spirit

Holy Spirit 
–noun
1. the spirit of God.
2. the presence of God as part of a person's religious experience.
3. Holy Ghost.

Gabriel is the holy spirit in Islam- are all the other angels holy spirits also?
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جوري
05-29-2009, 12:29 PM
as the page you quoted asserts:

Holy Spirit

In the belief of many Christians, one of the three persons in the one God, along with the Father and the Son (Jesus is the Son); the Holy Spirit is also called the Holy Ghost. Jesus promised the Apostles that he would send the Holy Spirit after his Crucifixion and Resurrection. The Spirit came to the disciples of Jesus on Pentecost.




thus, that is the belief as per christians not the rest of humanity!


other angels go by other names and have other functions.. do browse our forum you'll find your reply!
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Follower
05-29-2009, 12:55 PM
Gossamer skye- So correct me if I am wrong you are saying that Gabriel is the only one that is a holy spirit? Or do you mean this is just a title, name?

So Jesus only with the help of the holy spirit was able to raise the dead from the grave? Does this mean that it is Gabriel that has the power to raise the dead, or that GOD gave this power to Gabriel who passed it on to Jesus?

002.253
YUSUFALI: Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.
Reply

جوري
05-29-2009, 01:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Gossamer skye- So correct me if I am wrong you are saying that Gabriel is the only one that is a holy spirit? Or do you mean this is just a title, name?

So Jesus only with the help of the holy spirit was able to raise the dead from the grave? Does this mean that it is Gabriel that has the power to raise the dead, or that GOD gave this power to Gabriel who passed it on to Jesus?

002.253
YUSUFALI: Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.
(2: 253) Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others: among them were such as.were spoken to by God [Himself], and some He has raised yet higher.'* And We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth, and strengthened him with holy inspiration.**
And if God had so willed, they who succeeded those [apostles] would not have contended with one another after all evidence of the truth had come to them; but [as it was,] they did take to divergent views, and some of them attained to faith, while some of them came to deny the truth. Yet if God had so willed, they would not have contended with one another: but God does whatever He wills.***

* This appears to be an allusion to Muhammad inasmuch as he was the Last Prophet and the bearer of a universal message applicable to all people and to all times. By "such as were spoken to by God" Moses is meant (see the last sentence of 4 : 164).

** The mention, in this context, of Jesus by name is intended to stress the fact of his having been a prophet, and to refute the claims of those who deify him. For an explanation of the term huh al -qudus (rendered by me as "holy inspiration"), see note 71 on verse 87 of this surah.


*I.e., their obstinate desire to obtain closer and closer definitions of the simple commandment revealed to them through Moses had made it almost impossible for them to fulfil it. In his commentary on this passage; Tabari quotes the following remark of Ibn 'Abbas: "If [in the first instance] they had sacrificed any cow chosen by themselves, they would have fulfilled their duty; but they made it complicated for themselves, and so God made it complicated for them." A similar view has been'expressed, in the same context, by Zamakhshari. It would appear that the moral of this story points to an important-problem of all (and, therefore, also of Islamic) religious jurisprudence: namely, the inadvisability of trying to elicit additional details in respect of any religious law that had originally been given in general terms-for, the more numerous and multiform such details become, the more complicated and rigid becomes the law. This point has been acutely grasped by Rashid Rida', who says in his commentary on the above Qur'anic passage (see Mandr I, 345 f.): "Its lesson is that one should not pursue one's [legal] inquiries in such a way as to make laws more complicated .... This was how the early generations [of Muslims] visualized the problem. They did not make things complicated for themselves-and so, for them, the religious law (drn) was natural, simple and liberal in its straightforwardness. But those who came later added to it [certain other] injunctions which they had deduced by means of their own reasoning (iftihdd); and they multiplied those [additional] injunctions to such an extent that the religious law became a heavy burden on the community." For the sociological reason why the genuine ordinances of Islamic Law - that is, those which have been prima facie laid down as such in the Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet-are
almost always devoid of details, I would refer the reader to my book State and Government in Islam (pp. 11 ff. and passim). The importance of this problem, illustrated in the above story of the cow-and correctly grasped by the Prophet's Companions-explains why this sarah has been entitled "The Cow". (See also 5 : 101 and the corresponding notes 120-123.)



*Lit., "We caused him to be followed, after his time, by [all] the other apostles": a stress upon
the continuous succession of prophets among the Jews (see Tabari, Zamakhshari, Razi, Ibn Kathir), which fact deprives them of any excuse of ignorance.

**This rendering of rah al-qudus (lit., "the spirit of holiness") is based on the recurring use in the Qui'an of the term rah in the sense of "divine inspiration". It is also recorded that the Prophet invoked the blessing of the rah al-qudus on his Companion, the poet Hassan ibn Thabit (Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dd'ud and Tirmidhi): just as the Qur'an (58: 22) speaks of all believers as being "strengthened by inspiration (rah) from Him".

***Lit., "and some you are slaying". The change from the past tense observed throughout this sentence to the present tense in the verb taqtulan ("you are slaying") is meant to express a conscious intent in this respect and, thus, a persistent, ever-recurring trait in Jewish history (Manor I, 377), to which also the New Testament refers (Matthew xxiii, 34-35, 37), and I Thessalonians ii, 15).




Gabriel's job is the inspiration of revelations into the hearts of the messengers.. as simple as that .. Jesus couldn't raise the dead and Moses couldn't split seas were it not for God!

all the best
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Grace Seeker
05-29-2009, 05:21 PM
Skye, Follower -- TIME OUT!!! This thread is (hopefully) about helping us to understand what each other means by our respective terms so that we can talk with one another rather than at the other.

I appreciate Doorster's comments. He is saying what Islam understands just as I said what Christianity understands. Without us both sharing we might continue to talk at each other and yet still misunderstand what was actually being said.
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Grace Seeker
05-29-2009, 05:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by doorster
In Quran Hz Jibreel Alahesalam is Ruh al Quds



Ruh al Quds [الروح القدس] translates to "The Holy Spirit"
Interesting. This explains much for me. I notice you used the definite article "the" and capitalization on "Holy Spirit". Is there any significance in these observations?
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جوري
05-29-2009, 06:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Skye, Follower -- TIME OUT!!! This thread is (hopefully) about helping us to understand what each other means by our respective terms so that we can talk with one another rather than at the other.

I appreciate Doorster's comments. He is saying what Islam understands just as I said what Christianity understands. Without us both sharing we might continue to talk at each other and yet still misunderstand what was actually being said.

I have done nothing in the above save to quote for him Quranic text with commentary.. I don't believe there is meaningful dialogue, with someone who wishes to drown us in pathological logorrhea and interpret other revelations only to appease his desired meaning.

all the best
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doorster
05-30-2009, 03:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Interesting. This explains much for me. I notice you used the definite article "the" and capitalization on "Holy Spirit". Is there any significance in these observations?
I use "The" before the Name/description of something/someone which is one of a kind (don't press me on it or I'll get confused)

as for
What Is Meant by the Holy Spirit in the Qur'an?
Sheikh Ahmad Kutty says that The Holy Spirit is the conduit of divine support and assistance bestowed on Prophets, Messengers as well as righteous people who strive in the path of Allah.

see >> http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...rit-quran.html
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Follower
05-31-2009, 02:02 PM
All - I am not trying to start a debate here, just trying to sort out Gabriel's power/abilities according to the Quran and Islam. I'll try and ask another way:

002.097
YUSUFALI: Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

Gossamer has kindly pointed out that miracles are by the will of Allah and Gabriel is simply a conduit of messages.

There are 2 different things at work here- Allah's will and Gabriel.

One is Gabriel what is the other? Is Allah's will the holy spirit? Or is Gabriel considered the holy spirit?

We know that in Islam it is believed that Allah created the angels and according to the following the Holy Spirit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/holy_spirit.htmAllah Almighty Created the Holy Spirit for specific functions not only on this earth, but also perhaps else where in the Universe where we don't know about. But it is in no way GOD Almighty Himself.
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