Row over church that prays to Allah

[Banu_Hashim]

A Catholic church in Malaysia which prays to Allah has prompted a court case over who can use the word.

Muslim leaders say Islam should be the only faith to use it, saying its use in other faiths could lead to confusion and conversions.

Robin Brant reports from Kuala Lumpur.

See Below.

Video

[Muezzin]

Isn't 'Allah' simply the Arabic word for 'God'?

[Banu_Hashim]

^ I think so, because as far as I'm aware Arab Christians use "Allah" as well.

[ardianto]

My computer is mute, I can't hear how they say that word.
Is it like Arab Muslim say 'Allah' or like non-muslim when they say 'Allah' ?.
Actualy, there is a word for God in Malaysian/Indonesian language that oftenly used by non-muslim. That word is 'Tuhan' (read : too'haan).

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[Uthman]

:sl:

We've heard this one before

:w:

[glo]

I think it's simple. If 'Allah' is the general word in the Malaysian language for 'God', then why shouldn't Christians use it?

If it is not the generally used word for 'God', then it is a different matter ...

[Dawud_uk]

I think it's simple. If 'Allah' is the general word in the Malaysian language for 'God', then why shouldn't Christians use it?

If it is not the generally used word for 'God', then it is a different matter ...

i would agree, it seems close to what many christians do in leicester with their leaflets and talks aimed at muslims.

me personally i would just do a dawah stall outside their church every day, explaining the falsehood and idolitry of their beliefs and call them to follow Allah as he wants to be worshipped not through all these intermediaries and saints.

[glo]

Well, is 'Allah' the Malaysian word for 'God' or not?

[Dawud_uk]

Well, is 'Allah' the Malaysian word for 'God' or not?

i dont know glo, but it certainly isnt in england where we have the same problem.

[Malaikah]

No. The Malaysian word for God is Tuhan.

[glo]

i dont know glo, but it certainly isnt in england where we have the same problem.

This may be a different scenario, because here I am in an Islamic forum ... but on occasions I refer to God as 'Allah', meaning the same one God which you Muslims worship.

Does it cause offence or concern when I speak about Allah in that context?

[Dawud_uk]

This may be a different scenario, because here I am in an Islamic forum ... but on occasions I refer to God as 'Allah', meaning the same one God which you Muslims worship.

Does it cause offence or concern when I speak about Allah in that context?

not from you,

but when you get christian missionaries in leicester city centre calling people to worship Allah and meaning jesus, with their leaflets being the same then it is obvious what their game is.

[Zico]

It's rather silly tbh, we all pray to the same God then why Muslims in Malaysia want to monopolize the word? Whenever I see hope for future of Islam, I see Malaysia, this is a step backwards, but then this perhaps a small minority of Malaysians.

[Dawud_uk]

It's rather silly tbh, we all pray to the same God then why Muslims in Malaysia want to monopolize the word? Whenever I see hope for future of Islam, I see Malaysia, this is a step backwards, but then this perhaps a small minority of Malaysians.

yeah but that is the point, we dont all worship the same God, other religions have false gods and they think the same about Allah also.

[Zico]

yeah but that is the point, we dont all worship the same God, other religions have false gods and they think the same about Allah also.

Right. The way I see it is that no matter what religion claims to worship God, in the end as Muslims we know that they are praying to Allah the one and only. You see Christians claim Jesus as God and so on but in the end no matter how complex their belief is, they are still worshipping the same God as we do.

I don't know if my point went across or not but to make things simpler let me link my thread about a Jew who says that Allah is the same God as the God of the Jews.
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-explains.html

[HopeFul]

I think it is not wrong for people to use the word Allah. Anyone can use the word Allah. Even pagan arabs use to worship the supreme God Allah. What is wrong is that people tell you , come on you can worship Allah in the church too. That is wrong. I think people can say whatever they want and it is very nice to hear other people say Allah too.

Although I don't know if it should be propagated that way or not, personal usage is one thing, propagating one religion as praying to Allah is another thing ( if it is not true) as said in the video, some muslims may misunderstand that.

But then, do they pray to Allah or do they pray to another God and only use the WORD Allah?

The priest said he only uses the WORD Allah, hence he is not really praying to Allah, the one God, in which case it is wrong. He should not give the name of Allah to his "other" god. but if he prays to Allah and calls Him Allah then he shouldn't be banned.
or so I think...

[Dawud_uk]

Right. The way I see it is that no matter what religion claims to worship God, in the end as Muslims we know that they are praying to Allah the one and only. You see Christians claim Jesus as God and so on but in the end no matter how complex their belief is, they are still worshipping the same God as we do.

I don't know if my point went across or not but to make things simpler let me link my thread about a Jew who says that Allah is the same God as the God of the Jews.
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-explains.html

when discussing this with others i start by saying,

lets agree there is only one worthy of worship, ok the hindus and sikhs arent going to agree with this but the christians and jews will at least.

let us agree there is only one creator, who made us and guides creation.

now the difference is that the christian and jewish concept of who that creator and one worthy of worship is differs from ours.

so the jews say Allah's hand is tied up, that one of their prophets wrestled and beat Allah, the christians say Allah is not one but three beings in one.

so my creator, the one i worship is not the same one the christians and jews worship, their's are false concepts and so they associate partners with Allah.

[Zico]

when discussing this with others i start by saying,

lets agree there is only one worthy of worship, ok the hindus and sikhs arent going to agree with this but the christians and jews will at least.

let us agree there is only one creator, who made us and guides creation.

now the difference is that the christian and jewish concept of who that creator and one worthy of worship is differs from ours.

so the jews say Allah's hand is tied up, that one of their prophets wrestled and beat Allah, the christians say Allah is not one but three beings in one.

so my creator, the one i worship is not the same one the christians and jews worship, their's are false concepts and so they associate partners with Allah.

Right on I agree. In concept we are not but in belief we are so they can also call God Allah if they want as per belief.

[GreyKode]

when discussing this with others i start by saying,

lets agree there is only one worthy of worship, ok the hindus and sikhs arent going to agree with this but the christians and jews will at least.

let us agree there is only one creator, who made us and guides creation.

now the difference is that the christian and jewish concept of who that creator and one worthy of worship is differs from ours.

so the jews say Allah's hand is tied up, that one of their prophets wrestled and beat Allah, the christians say Allah is not one but three beings in one.

so my creator, the one i worship is not the same one the christians and jews worship, their's are false concepts and so they associate partners with Allah.

I agree with brother Dawud on this one.
ALLAH(swt) is NOT Jesus(pbuh).
ALLAH is almighty unlike when the Jews said "He rested on the seventh day", the Qur'an said "walaqad khalaqna al samawat wal arda wa baynahuma fe settati ayyam wa massana men loghoob" to correct their false understanding.

[glo]

so my creator, the one i worship is not the same one the christians and jews worship, their's are false concepts and so they associate partners with Allah.

The concepts may be different. You may even argue that our concepts are wrong ... but the one God, creator of heaven and earth and everything is it is still the same!
How we choose to understand and worship God doesn't alter HIM at all.
He always has been and always will be God Almighty.

[ardianto]

That Catholic priest said 'Allah' like Indonesian Christian says 'Allah'. Actually, that is not a problem in Indonesia. But maybe Malaysians Muslims have a difference opinion.

I don't understand why Malaysian Muslims must have objection if Christian says 'Allah'. I think as Muslims we cannot monopolize 'Allah' for Muslims only. Jews, Christian and Islam has a same God. And even Indonesian Muslims sometime say 'Tuhan' for God, same as Indonesian Christian, same as Malaysian word for 'Allah'.

If I compare Indonesia and Malaysia in this post, that's because Malaysians are very close to Indonesian. In culture and in language.

[KAding]

Well, is 'Allah' the Malaysian word for 'God' or not?

To be honest, I don't see how it matters. Do you think they shouldn't be allowed to use the word if it isn't?

[glo]

To be honest, I don't see how it matters. Do you think they shouldn't be allowed to use the word if it isn't?

I can't see how people can be forbidden to use the word 'Allah' (or any other word for that matter) - but unless it is a term used in the native language anyway it doesn't seem to make much sense to wish to use it ...

[Roasted Cashew]

Well, is 'Allah' the Malaysian word for 'God' or not?

No, it's not. The proper word is "Tuhan"

[coddles76]

The word Allah SWT does not have a language conflict surrounding it. Its merely the perfect Word most befitting the Almighty Creator and his Almighty nature. ALLAH SWT name has been discussed many a times on this forum and the reason why its the most befitting.

[north_malaysian]

For so many times, I've said that "Allah" means "God" in Arabic...Arabic speaking Jews and Christians used "Allah" too... but many Malaysian Muslims rejected it and saying that the Christians want to confuse the Muslims by saying that they worship Allah too...

After millions of times telling this.. I just decided to shut up...

[north_malaysian]

Well, is 'Allah' the Malaysian word for 'God' or not?

In our language,

God = Tuhan

But Muslims here use Allah, Ilah, Rabb to differentiate their God from "Gods" worship by others...

[north_malaysian]

It' but then this perhaps a small minority of Malaysians.

Nope... unfortunately.. it's not...

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

How is it any different from Arab Christians or Jews saying Allah??

[Dawud_uk]

How is it any different from Arab Christians or Jews saying Allah??

because in their language that is the word for the creator, in this case it isn't and they are doing so for missionary purposes.

this is crazy though, muslims in a muslim country going to court over something like this. should just put dawah tables, a bro with a loud speaker, keep giving them dawah until no more christians at this church. then they wont do it again. simple.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

But even before Islam they said Allah and believed in Allah despite their idolatrous ways...I'm not talking about language here.

[seeker-of-light]

Allah means God in arabic, why couldnt christians use it if they wanted? God is God, whichever language you choose to use it from. maybe they find a greater meaning in its usage as christians because the word Allah is more similiar to the words which jesus (pbuh) spoke as he was dying? “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
im not sure, the church i used to go to never did that. i am muslim now, but i guess that some christians are looking for deeper meaning in their lives. after all, the englihs word "God" can be broken down into "gods" as well, while there is only one "Allah", neutral gendered, and cannot be plural. so some christians may have knowledge of this and believe that it is better to pray in the name of Allah rather than this english word of God.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Instead of getting furious over Christians using Allah, they should use this as a chance to give dawah instead of shunning them away. I would think you'd only be pushing them away. Imagine what this makes you look like as a Muslim? Allah Ta'ala wants us all to turn to Him, so here is another chance and a fairly big one....just my thought. May Allah guide us all, ameen.

[Grace Seeker]

ALLAH is almighty unlike when the Jews said "He rested on the seventh day", the Qur'an said "walaqad khalaqna al samawat wal arda wa baynahuma fe settati ayyam wa massana men loghoob" to correct their false understanding.

I don't want to take this thread off course, but would like to ask what you mean by this statement. Would you be willing to address that question here: Things In Islam I Am Curious About thread. Thanks.

[rpwelton]

I can't see how people can be forbidden to use the word 'Allah' (or any other word for that matter) - but unless it is a term used in the native language anyway it doesn't seem to make much sense to wish to use it ...

That's the problem I see; it's not a native word to the Malaysian language. As a Muslim myself, I often interchange Allah and God when talking to non-Muslims (or even sometimes to Muslims), because God is a word people are familiar with, but Allah generally is not. But I would never use the Malaysian word for God.

My guess as to why they're using it is because there is such a big Muslim and Christian population, the churches want to tell their congregation that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, thus perhaps curbing the number of people leaving Christianity for Islam.

Needless to say, I wouldn't create a big uproar about it, but as Light-of-Heaven says, use it to give dawah.

[GreyKode]

That's the problem I see; it's not a native word to the Malaysian language. As a Muslim myself, I often interchange Allah and God when talking to non-Muslims (or even sometimes to Muslims), because God is a word people are familiar with, but Allah generally is not. But I would never use the Malaysian word for God.

My guess as to why they're using it is because there is such a big Muslim and Christian population, the churches want to tell their congregation that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, thus perhaps curbing the number of people leaving Christianity for Islam.

Needless to say, I wouldn't create a big uproar about it, but as Light-of-Heaven says, use it to give dawah.

I wonder what made christians all of a sudden want to worship the "Moon-God".:rollseyes

[Whatsthepoint]

That's the problem I see; it's not a native word to the Malaysian language. As a Muslim myself, I often interchange Allah and God when talking to non-Muslims (or even sometimes to Muslims), because God is a word people are familiar with, but Allah generally is not. But I would never use the Malaysian word for God.

My guess as to why they're using it is because there is such a big Muslim and Christian population, the churches want to tell their congregation that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, thus perhaps curbing the number of people leaving Christianity for Islam.

Needless to say, I wouldn't create a big uproar about it, but as Light-of-Heaven says, use it to give dawah.

Have they only started using the word recently?

[north_malaysian]

Have they only started using the word recently?

Well... the old Chinese people (who are Confucians or Taoists) when talking in Malay language they used the word "Tuan Alla" (Lord Allah) for "God" and never heard of Malaysian Muslims objecting to that...

In the 21st century, many natives of Malaysian part of Borneo (ie. the Ibans, Orang Ulus, Bidayuhs, Muruts, Kadazans, Dusuns etc) converted to Christianity from Animism... they have their own language ... but currently, a great majority of their younger generation could only speak in Malaysian language instead of their own languages... so there is a need for Bibles to be written in Malaysian language.. which is not available... so they have to import Indonesian language bibles which contain the word "Allah" for Christians...

The people who are against the usage of "Allah" for Christians are usually Nationalists... personally, i think that the Islamists are quite ok with it.. maybe because they knew that "Allah" means "God" and in the Arab world it is used by both muslims and non-muslims...

[north_malaysian]

Nik Aziz: 'Allah' is for all

2009/03/02

KOTA BARU: PAS (Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party) spiritual leader Datuk Nik Aziz Nik Mat said non-Muslims are allowed to use the word "Allah" as there is a verse in the Quran which quotes the non-Muslims of Mecca calling their god "Allah".

"But, it is up to the Federal Government to decide. I do not want to interfere in this," he told reporters after opening the new headquarters of local travel agency Al-Quds Travel here yesterday.

Nik Aziz, who is also Kelantan menteri besar, was responding to a request by the Catholic weekly, Herald, to use the word in its publications.

On Saturday, the Home Ministry rescinded a government gazette issued a day earlier which allowed the conditional use of the word in Christian publications.

The government recently ordered the Herald's Malay edition banned until a court's decision on a suit by the Catholic church..
Several Muslim groups are not happy over the Herald's use of the word "Allah" in its publications.

They argued that allowing Christians to use the word "Allah" would cause confusion among Muslims. Thus, they were upset when the Home Ministry allowed the conditional use of the word in Christian publications.

On another matter, Nik Aziz said the term "Bumiputera" should be dropped in applications for government assistance and, instead, the government should form an agency to help the poor of all races and not only Bumiputeras.

Nik Aziz said the non-Bumiputeras had contributed a lot to the country, especially in the plantation sector and in commerce.

"When we focus only on helping the Bumiputeras, it hurts the feelings of the others. We need to help everybody. That is the Islamic way. Only then will the poor feel that they are being taken care of by the government.

"Even (former prime minister) Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad said that we should do away with this policy and I agreed with his view."

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/N...cle/index_html