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Clover
05-25-2009, 03:03 AM
Warning: This is not a bash Islam thread, or to flame. Just a question.

I have read, on some Christian sites, on issues, one of the biggest being, men being allowed to beat their wives in Islamic Society, cause of their 'greedy', or if they do something to upset him. Is this true? Or, are men allowed to beat their wives at all in Islam? If so, or If no, please tell me, I am interested in a education on Women in Islam.
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Clover
05-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Sorry Mods for making 3 of these topics, I didn't know they had to be allowed, sorry for spamming.
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جوري
05-26-2009, 02:36 AM



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Author:
Br. Estes

RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

Question:
Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)

Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.

Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.

Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.

Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.

Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.


Transliteration
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.)
Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."

And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."

As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.

Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.

The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.

However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this makes it clear to her that he is most serious and this not a joke. Again, if she comes around then he is to let it go and not bother her about it. Finally, if she still insists on such lewdness and bad conduct, he is to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms that they are going to be heading for separation or even divorce unless she comes back to proper behavior. Again, if she complies, then he should not bring it up and return to the bed with her.
And of course, this is all in an effort to translate one short but powerful phrase from Arabic to English. The sources are quoted herein and there may be other interpretations but the only acceptable ones are those based on the teachings of the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
And as always, Allahu 'Alim (Allah is the Knower)

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.
34.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The understanding now is that some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

Now we can properly understand that Almighty God has commanded the men to provide for the women and allow them to keep all of their wealth, inheritance and income without demanding anything from them for support and maintenance. Additionally, if she should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she would cease this lewdness. If she should continue in this indecency, then he should no longer share the bed with her, and this would continue for a period of time. Finally, if she would repent then he would take up sharing the bed with her again.

And Allah is All Knowing of the meanings.

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...eating-12.html



Christians spend much of their time making up lies about Muslims.. one wonders why western women are converting to Islam at a ratio of 5:1 over men.. perhaps they just want to be abused?

peace
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Clover
05-26-2009, 03:01 AM
I read most of your post, except for the Arabic, which I read the translation. I thank you, but I think you were getting the implication that I was trying to dis-respect Islam, which is wrong. I have heard this so much on Christian forums, I wanted to hear the Muslim side, thank you for giving it to me.
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جوري
05-26-2009, 03:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
I read most of your post, except for the Arabic, which I read the translation. I thank you, but I think you were getting the implication that I was trying to dis-respect Islam, which is wrong. I have heard this so much on Christian forums, I wanted to hear the Muslim side, thank you for giving it to me.

I didn't think you were trying to disrespect islam, it is a reasonable question.. also you have chosen Taoism as a way of life and secondly you have clarified that you have read as much on a christian forum..

I merely commented on the fact and based on the turnover we occasionally get on board, that many Christians enjoy disseminating stereotypical nonsense about Muslims, and sometimes they even use it to try to proselytize members which is doubly strange because it seems to me that if you'd want to convice others that your way of life is better, it is prudent to actually learn about their religion from them directly rather than makeup lies, believe them and then come convince us that, that is what our religion teaches..

Anyhow, with above I hope your Q has been answered...

all the best
Reply

Clover
05-26-2009, 03:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I didn't think you were trying to disrespect islam, it is a reasonable question.. also you have chosen Taoism as a way of life and secondly you have clarified that you have read as much on a christian forum..

I merely commented on the fact and based on the turnover we occasionally get on board, that many Christians enjoy disseminating stereotypical nonsense about Muslims, and sometimes they even use it to try to proselytize members which is doubly strange because it seems to me that if you'd want to convice others that your way of life is better, it is prudent to actually learn about their religion from them directly rather than makeup lies, believe them and then come convince us that, that is what our religion teaches..

Anyhow, with above I hope your Q has been answered...

all the best
Yes, the post was informative, I am very glad you responded with it, I learned much, even though it was small amount of read, I learned more wisdom then most do in a day's work in a forum.

I have a question, and its not meant to insult or insinuate anything, I promise;

What do you mean by I have chosen Taoism as a way of life? did you mean that to strengthen the fact that you didn't believe I meant anything wrong with the question? I think that's what you meant, but I'd like to clarify it, btw:

THank you for being straight forward, and not being rude, I get rudeness a lot on other forums, but have not gotten any here yet, thank you.
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جوري
05-26-2009, 03:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
Yes, the post was informative, I am very glad you responded with it, I learned much, even though it was small amount of read, I learned more wisdom then most do in a day's work in a forum.

I have a question, and its not meant to insult or insinuate anything, I promise;

What do you mean by I have chosen Taoism as a way of life? did you mean that to strengthen the fact that you didn't believe I meant anything wrong with the question? I think that's what you meant, but I'd like to clarify it, btw:

THank you for being straight forward, and not being rude, I get rudeness a lot on other forums, but have not gotten any here yet, thank you.

you shared a christian view (which I agree) that is indeed what they believe, but you aren't a christian thus I have concluded that you were merely curious and that you don't share their views...

I don't know why people are rude to you or would be rude to you if you have a genuine desire to join their forum and learn about them?.. I am sorry you've been met with rudeness, but I am sure if you browse the forum you'll see that we have many members from all religions ideologies or no affiliations whatsoever who have been here for ages, are well established, they have high rep power, and are respected for their opinion..

there is no good reason for others to be rude unless you are/were a net troll, and net trolls have a very distinctive style, it is hateful... they come accusing and saying hateful things .. the difference is they don't question, they simply assert!
I think you know the difference..

all the best

peace
Reply

Clover
05-26-2009, 03:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
you shared a christian view (which I agree) that is indeed what they believe, but you aren't a christian thus I have concluded that you were merely curious and that you don't share their views...

I don't know why people are rude to you or would be rude to you if you have a genuine desire to join their forum and learn about them?.. I am sorry you've been met with rudeness, but I am sure if you browse the forum you'll see that we have many members from all religions ideologies or no affiliations whatsoever who have been here for ages, are well established, they have high rep power, and are respected for their opinion..

there is no good reason for others to be rude unless you are/were a net troll, and net trolls have a very distinctive style, it is hateful... they come accusing and saying hateful things .. the difference is they don't question, they simply assert!
I think you know the difference..

all the best

peace
Thank you, and well, people tend to get rude, if they are asked questions and decide its easier to be rude, then to tell the answer lol.

Eh, I have hanged out with a lot of trols on the chan websites, they are ok, if they are content, but their are many that are insane about flaming others, they are the ones I make sure to stay away from.
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جوري
05-26-2009, 03:37 AM
many different trolls on the net.. it makes it unpleasant for everyone.. but I think this forum is great.. people are generally nice here...(I am probably as horrible as it gets on this forum) if you ask around it is usually me people want to avoid.. and I don't find you running away yet :lol:




peace
Reply

Clover
05-26-2009, 03:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
many different trolls on the net.. it makes it unpleasant for everyone.. but I think this forum is great.. people are generally nice here...(I am probably as horrible as it gets on this forum) if you ask around it is usually me people want to avoid.. and I don't find you running away yet :lol:




peace
You are not a troll, you haven't even said a rude word yet. I have met people that make you look like a powerpuff girl (no offense intended), if you ever get close to a Age of Kings forum, run, them people made one guy go insane, no joke.
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جوري
05-26-2009, 04:26 AM
well, I don't think I am a troll, but I am very unkind to members whom I feel are trolls..
I have been on so many other forums, mostly anti-islamic forum trying to get them to correct their views but they either deleted my posts, edited them with the content of their choosing or banned me all together, also tried a couple of atheist forums and they are equally intolerant but like to believe that they have discovered all the secrets that still elude humanity including Nobel prize winners apparently..

I have joined science forums those are generally easy going as most people just want help with their homework or abstract concepts.. but now this is the only forum I am a member of, as well my college forum to keep up with my pals from grad school, although I scarcely visit now...

I just think we have many good things in here, other interests outside of this forum I carry on my own private time.. but we have sections for all your interests here as well folks from all over the world..

from biographies to creative writing to health and science to religion to politics.. it is pretty well rounded although some areas here are heated indeed...

peace
Reply

Clover
05-26-2009, 04:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
well, I don't think I am a troll, but I am very unkind to members whom I feel are trolls..
I have been on so many other forums, mostly anti-islamic forum trying to get them to correct their views but they either deleted my posts, edited them with the content of their choosing or banned me all together, also tried a couple of atheist forums and they are equally intolerant but like to believe that they have discovered all the secrets that still elude humanity including Nobel prize winners apparently..

I have joined science forums those are generally easy going as most people just want help with their homework or abstract concepts.. but now this is the only forum I am a member of, as well my college forum to keep up with my pals from grad school, although I scarcely visit now...

I just think we have many good things in here, other interests outside of this forum I carry on my own private time.. but we have sections for all your interests here as well folks from all over the world..

from biographies to creative writing to health and science to religion to politics.. it is pretty well rounded although some areas here are heated indeed...

peace
I doubt the word "heated" can be applied here, cause I have seen heated, and its much worse, I have seen some forums get torn between factions, it can get bad, but I am glad I am here to enjoy this forum.
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جوري
05-26-2009, 04:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
I doubt the word "heated" can be applied here, cause I have seen heated, and its much worse, I have seen some forums get torn between factions, it can get bad, but I am glad I am here to enjoy this forum.
and we are happy to have you aboard I am sure you can teach us and learn from us as well with any hope...

Anyhow I am going to call it a night... we had a long weekend and unfortunately that is coming to an end

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Clover
05-26-2009, 05:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
and we are happy to have you aboard I am sure you can teach us and learn from us as well with any hope...

Anyhow I am going to call it a night... we had a long weekend and unfortunately that is coming to an end

Yes, Same here. I have to go to school the next 2 days for final exams, then I am free until August.
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- Qatada -
05-26-2009, 09:37 PM
Hey :)


Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply

The word "idribuhuna" does not mean to beat up the wife.
It means to hit her lightly (avoiding the face because hitting the face is forbeddin in Islam) a hitting that is ghayr mubarrih, which does not cause harm to the body, like bruising or breaking a bone.


Ata' said: "I asked Ibn Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir.



http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...c5b8ddf3_o.jpg

And this is the last resort for the husband.



The following hadith comes directly from Aisha herself [the wife of Prophet Muhammad];

`A'ishah said,"The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah. And he was never given the option between two things except that the most beloved of the two to him was the easiest of them, as long as it did not involve sin. If it did involve sin, then he stayed farther away from sin than any of the people. He would not avenge himself concerning anything that was done to him, except if the limits of Allah were transgressed. Then, in that case he would avenge for the sake of Allah.'' Imam Ahmad also recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah said,

«إِنَّمَا بُعِثْتُ لِأُتَمِّمَ صَالِحَ الْأَخْلَاق»

(I have only been sent to perfect righteous behavior.)


Tafsir ibn Kathir - Surah Qalam (68)
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=68&tid=54734



it is also important to note that the woman that is hit lightly is not just a woman who does not cook or clean etc. It is concerning a wife who is lewd or doing unislamic acts (wearing halter top showing some cleavage infront of stranger guys to beautify herself for them) etc.. And it goes in steps. First admonishing her (advising her) second forsake her in bed (dontsleep with her so she knows that you are serious and that she needs Islah or reformation) and then a final stop to hit her lightly in a way that doesnt leave a mark! [i.e. with a tiny stick]



womens rights in islam;


It is reported that a man came to 'Umar ibn Al-Khattab ra to complain about his wife's ill-temper. While he was waiting for 'Umar to come out of his house, he heard 'Umar's wife scolding him and 'Umar quietly listening to her, and not answering her back. The man turned around and started walking away, muttering to himself: "If that is the case with 'Umar, the leader of the believers, who is famous for his uprighteness and toughness, then what about poor me?!" At that moment, 'Umar came out of his house and saw the man walking away. He called him and said, "What is it you want of me, O man?" The man replied: "O leader of the believers, I came to complain to you about my wife's bad-temper and how she nags me. Then I heard your wife doing the same to you, so I turned around, muttering to myself, 'If that is the situation of the leader of the believers, then what about me?'" 'Umar replied, "O my brother, I bear with her because of her rights over me. She cooks my food, bakes my bread, washes my clothes, breast-feeds my child...and yet none of these are her duty;* and then she is a comfort to my heart and keeps me away from forbidden deeds. Consequently, I bear with her." The man said, "It is the same with me, O leader of the believers." 'Umar said: "Then, O my brother, be patient with her, indeed this life is short. (Adh-Dhahabi, Al-Kabâ'ir 194)The last hadith about 'Umar is a beautiful example of the lofty status that Islam has given women. The Khalifa himself used to listen patiently while his wife scolded him and he instructed his followers to likewise be patient and grateful for all the favours their wives gave them. Dr. M. Moinuddin Siddiqui, who has translated Al-Kabâ'ir into english, includes the following footnote in the place I have marked above with an asterisk [*]:According to the Shari'ah, a Muslim wife has no obligation to do all this; rather, it is the husband's obligation to take care of it [either himself or] by hiring a servant (or even, in the case of breast-feeding, a wet-nurse). Therefore, if a woman does this, it is out of good-will and compliance on her part, not because it is obligatory on her, and consequently it is a cause for appreciation and helpfulness on the part of her husband. (Translator)

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/33209-wife-beating.html#post305540




http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/quran-hadith-prophet-muhammad/wife-beating-verse-4-34-quick-simple-reply-1314/

Reply

ummsara1108
05-29-2009, 04:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
I read most of your post, except for the Arabic, which I read the translation. I thank you, but I think you were getting the implication that I was trying to dis-respect Islam, which is wrong. I have heard this so much on Christian forums, I wanted to hear the Muslim side, thank you for giving it to me.



I'm married to a muslim and know many, but never heard of one beating his wife let alone thinking it was ok. Not that it don't happen but !!!

I also think there is a verse in the Quran that says something about it, but most mis-interpret it in the wrong way. So my opinion is NO
Reply

Sampharo
05-29-2009, 08:26 AM
Thank you Qatada and Barak Allahu fik :thumbs_up He is absolutely right.

However, I would like to give the LONG and simple reply. I was quite upset at the earlier post that unfortunately a lot of muslim brothers and sisters got misguided with, and was planning to write this post in a more official language.

Dear brothers and sisters, unfortunately the internet has given everyone the power to communicate, and unfortunately such a tool can be used to misguide, I hope no one is left to misguidance. The earlier post that says "Wadrebohonna" is a complete misguidance and has NOTHING to do with the verse's meaning. This is why such things should only be done by those of knowledge, and this interpretation is built on huge ignorance.

Many people sometimes do not understand the background, or may do but do not feel they agree with it Astaghferollah, and unfortunately following their desires they adjust the interpretation so that things sounds more to their liking. We should never do that or allow ourselves the folly of falling into that, especially not to try and please disbelievers.

As per Ibn Kathir, and Al-Galalein, and Al-Qortobi, without difference amongst any of them, nor of the four Imams of jurisprudence, this section of the verse refers to speaking and preaching to women first, leaving their beds and forgoing intercourse to deprive them of emotional and physical intimacy second, and last beat them lightly if the before fails. These were direct Arab scholars and there was nothing lost in translation, and the interpretation is also supported by the Sunnah and hadith and the details of the incident around which this verse came.

The translations of M. Asad, Picktall, and Yusuf Ali also has no difference and reflects that meaning: [As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).]

The basis of the verse is also solidly established in Sunnah and authentic Hadith, in that a man (in certain versions is specified as Saad Ibn ArrabieAA) was married to a respected woman of class (Habiba bint Zaid Ibn Khareja), and she disobeyed him and argued with him and began teasing him (Noshooz) and he slapped her. Her father came to the prophet -pbuh- and complained that his daughter was slapped by her husband, to which the prophet of mercy -pbuh- said "He should be punished" and asked them to bring him over. As they turned to leave he called back to them and said "Wait, for Gibreel has come to me." and the verse was recited. He -pbuh- also said "I wanted something but God wanted another" and he told them there is no punishment on Saad. That did not prevent the prophet -pbuh- from telling people not to be harsh to their women, and that beating as in a slap with an open palm (not on the face) or as he described in a hadith not with anything bigger than a Miswak (a twig from a plant that is used as a toothbrush).

This refutes any claims that the verse has been "misunderstood", and furthermore this is all coming directly from Arabic speaking scholars, so there is no mistranslation. The notion that:
In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.
is not only a misguided one, but is also delibarately being pushed by Khawarej or orientalists or Shia.

As for the notion that "Wadrebohonna" could mean have intercourse, this is an ignorant translation and further is illogical, considering that the preceeding action was to "refuse to share their beds"?!?!

In the end I hope Gossamer Skye will not take this as a rude interjection or anything and I do not mean any of this regarding him in specific. My notes regarding ignorance and misguidance are regarding those who write this stuff in the first place, where you can see that they are delibarately letting their own desires interfere with the interpretation and analysis.

Being allowed to hit his wife lightly or slap her does not take away from the woman's standing or dignity, and is only a last resort. Just like that resort is allowed to be used, also like Qatada described in his post, the prophet never applied it, and he always said "The best of you are the best to your women, and I am best to my women". That does not give some people creative license to change the meaning of Quran words to please themselves and confuse and mislead muslims.

May God grant them all forgiveness and maintain our guidance.

Sam
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جوري
05-29-2009, 01:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sampharo

In the end I hope Gossamer Skye will not take this as a rude interjection or anything and I do not mean any of this regarding him in specific. My notes regarding ignorance and misguidance are regarding those who write this stuff in the first place, where you can see that they are delibarately letting their own desires interfere with the interpretation and analysis.

Being allowed to hit his wife lightly or slap her does not take away from the woman's standing or dignity, and is only a last resort. Just like that resort is allowed to be used, also like Qatada described in his post, the prophet never applied it, and he always said "The best of you are the best to your women, and I am best to my women". That does not give some people creative license to change the meaning of Quran words to please themselves and confuse and mislead muslims.

May God grant them all forgiveness and maintain our guidance.

Sam

You are entitled to your opinion.. by the way I am a sister and an Arabic speaker, and two of my uncles and my brother's dearest friend are Al-Azhar graduates and also a sheikh in a major mosque in the U.S.. and unanimously agree with the estes rendering.
Amongst other things I suggest you look into Islam's teaching on 'slaps' if anything at all, coming near someone's face with intent to do harm is an and of itself an abomination!
Shari`ah treats women so kindly and respectfully. There is no difference between men and women in public rights. Almighty Allah says in the Qur'an what means, [consort with them in kindness] (An-Nisaa' 4:19). Moreover, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade men to say bad words to their wives. When a Muslim man asked him, "What is the right of a wife of any one of us on him?" The Prophet said, "To feed her when you eat [i.e., from the same sort or level of food], to clothe her when you clothe yourself, not to hit [or slap her] face, not swear at her, and not to refuse to share [the bed] with her."

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...ah%2FLSELayout

however, you are free indeed to run after your wife with a miswak or your slapping hand if you desire and not consider that to take away from her dignity or yours...

You have said your peace and I have mine and folks are free to makeup their mind with the info presented... you are certainly free to enter into a marriage with your mindset, but I certainly hope you'll be forthcoming with your significant other on what awaits!

all the best

:w:
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