North Korea+Nuclear=:enough!:

[Clover]

North Korea, and Nuclear Weapons=retarded.
http://news.aol.com/article/north-ko...ar-test/434846

They have the fourth largest military in the world, yet they are still recieving high food aid from China and South Korea...really, let's focus on the people, before we focus on killing the other peoples, don't you agree?

I am personally, tired of North Korea, but I mean, if their people want too get rid of the censorship, the tyrants, then overthrow them, its a risk, but a great quote:

The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.
Thomas Jefferson

[Zico]

North Korea, and Nuclear Weapons=retarded.
http://news.aol.com/article/north-ko...ar-test/434846

They have the fourth largest military in the world, yet they are still recieving high food aid from China and South Korea...really, let's focus on the people, before we focus on killing the other peoples, don't you agree?

I am personally, tired of North Korea, but I mean, if their people want too get rid of the censorship, the tyrants, then overthrow them, its a risk, but a great quote:

The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.
Thomas Jefferson

MY EYES, IT BURNS!! Please enlarge the words lol.

Anyway as the title say, I believe that N.Korea has the right to obtain any nuclear missile it wished as long as it does not use it wrongly. We as nations of this earth could not, would not do anything to prevent them until they use it to there own agenda.

Keep in mind that the U.S is the only country in history to actually use it wrongfully, so I am more scared that the U.S would provoke yet another war on another soil on another country.

It is well known especially by politicians that any country that possess a nuclear missile has the best defense against a bulling country. i.e USA.

[Trumble]

North Korea, and Nuclear Weapons=retarded.

Nuclear weapons period = retarded.

Zico, do you believe North Korea has the 'right' to develop nuclear weapons and launch systems when doing so is such a drain on their resources that millions of their citizens would starve were it not for other countries (including the US 'bully') providing food aid? I'm also curious as to what you think we should 'do' should the North Koreans use their weapon 'wrongly'.. nuke the whole country back to the stone age? The only thing to do with nuclear weapons is get rid of them.. ALL of them. Otherwise somebody WILL use them, sooner or later.

[nocturnal]

Nuclear weapons period = retarded.

Zico, do you believe North Korea has the 'right' to develop nuclear weapons and launch systems when doing so is such a drain on their resources that millions of their citizens would starve were it not for other countries (including the US 'bully') providing food aid? I'm also curious as to what you think we should 'do' should the North Koreans use their weapon 'wrongly'.. nuke the whole country back to the stone age? The only thing to do with nuclear weapons is get rid of them.. ALL of them. Otherwise somebody WILL use them, sooner or later.

The reason the N.Koreans are impoverished is because of crippling and debilitating sanctions that have been introduced by the US, and supported by its allies in the region. Keep in mind the regional fear engendered is fomented by the US in order to create rifts and secure its own strategically important interests. If there is any tangible and helpful assistance to North Korea, it is from China.

And if you're going to pontificate about nukes, then keep in mind the only country that has ever used them without scruples and with impunity; the US. When the Soviet Union proposed numerous initiatives of mutual strategic nuclear arms reduction, they were constantly rejected flatly by the US.

Don't make vapid assertions and grand statements when you don't know what the facts are.

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[north_malaysian]

of all nations on earth ... North Korea is the most dangerous of all... their leader is a maniac ... and the peeps there worship him... Imagine if he is so jealous of Malaysia having thousands of 24/7 restaurants... he could just ask his people to attack our country.. and we are doomed... :exhausted

[Zico]

Nuclear weapons period = retarded.

Zico, do you believe North Korea has the 'right' to develop nuclear weapons and launch systems when doing so is such a drain on their resources that millions of their citizens would starve were it not for other countries (including the US 'bully') providing food aid?

If they the government of N.Korea want to 'drain on their resources' and the people support this, then yes it is there right.

I'm also curious as to what you think we should 'do' should the North Koreans use their weapon 'wrongly'.. nuke the whole country back to the stone age? The only thing to do with nuclear weapons is get rid of them.. ALL of them. Otherwise somebody WILL use them, sooner or later.

Can the police in any country arrest a man with a knife? You know a knife could be used to assault people as well as used for cooking. The police in this case can only arrest that man if he used it for attacking. Simple logic.

The reason the N.Koreans are impoverished is because of crippling and debilitating sanctions that have been introduced by the US, and supported by its allies in the region. Keep in mind the regional fear engendered is fomented by the US in order to create rifts and secure its own strategically important interests. If there is any tangible and helpful assistance to North Korea, it is from China.

And if you're going to pontificate about nukes, then keep in mind the only country that has ever used them without scruples and with impunity; the US. When the Soviet Union proposed numerous initiatives of mutual strategic nuclear arms reduction, they were constantly rejected flatly by the US.

Don't make vapid assertions and grand statements when you don't know what the facts are.

Right on.:thumbs_up

of all nations on earth ... North Korea is the most dangerous of all... their leader is a maniac ... and the peeps there worship him... Imagine if he is so jealous of Malaysia having thousands of 24/7 restaurants... he could just ask his people to attack our country.. and we are doomed... :exhausted

NOOOO! DON'T BLOW UP THE PETRONAS TOWERS!! ANYTHING BUT THAT!! DOOMED I SAY DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!

[Trumble]

The reason the N.Koreans are impoverished is because of crippling and debilitating sanctions that have been introduced by the US, and supported by its allies in the region.

Of course. Without sanctions North Korea would would a paradise for it's happy people, with oodles of spare cash to develop some of the most expensive technologies on the planet - such as nuclear weapons. :rollseyes

If there is any tangible and helpful assistance to North Korea, it is from China.

China is about the only country that will trade with them (the old Cold War ties die hard), hence China racks in the cash from their trade. The Chinese are the only ones who would sell weapons to Mugabe, too. Nevertheless, subtantial amounts of aid is provided from elsewhere, not least South Korea, which could hardly do otherwise.

And if you're going to pontificate about nukes, then keep in mind the only country that has ever used them without scruples and with impunity; the US. When the Soviet Union proposed numerous initiatives of mutual strategic nuclear arms reduction, they were constantly rejected flatly by the US.

You seem to think I'm American. I'm not. Not that it would be relevant if I was; I didn't decide to drop the bombs on Japan or negotiate or otherwise with the USSR!

Don't make vapid assertions and grand statements when you don't know what the facts are.

Please follow your own instructions. And have a nice day.

If they the government of N.Korea want to 'drain on their resources' and the people support this, then yes it is there right.

"The people support this"?! You really don't know much about North Korea, do you?

Can the police in any country arrest a man with a knife? You know a knife could be used to assault people as well as used for cooking. The police in this case can only arrest that man if he used it for attacking. Simple logic.

What 'logic'? It fails on two counts. Firstly, what peaceful use do nuclear weapons have? We are talking about North Korea, not Iran. Nobody is even pretending nuclear technology is being developed for peaceful purposes. Secondly, and rather more mundanely, in most countries people would in fact tend to be arrested when patrolling the streets with a large kitchen knife, whether they used it or not.

[Zico]

"The people support this"?! You really don't know much about North Korea, do you?

If the people wanted change then they would've done so for years and to my knowledge, I have not heard any North Koreans against this. Sure you would get a couple of them against it.

What 'logic'? It fails on two counts. Firstly, what peaceful use do nuclear weapons have?

Where have I claimed that North Korea made a nuclear missile for peaceful purposes?

Secondly, and rather more mundanely, in most countries people would in fact tend to be arrested when patrolling the streets with a large kitchen knife, whether they used it or not.

First I never said a man with 'large kitchen knife' it was you're assumption, I was merely pointing out that any person would be judged by his actions and not his intent hence (I'm quoting myself) "use it wrongfully".
Maybe I used a bad analogy but I still stand with my point.

[Clover]

The reason the N.Koreans are impoverished is because of crippling and debilitating sanctions that have been introduced by the US, and supported by its allies in the region. Keep in mind the regional fear engendered is fomented by the US in order to create rifts and secure its own strategically important interests. If there is any tangible and helpful assistance to North Korea, it is from China.

And if you're going to pontificate about nukes, then keep in mind the only country that has ever used them without scruples and with impunity; the US. When the Soviet Union proposed numerous initiatives of mutual strategic nuclear arms reduction, they were constantly rejected flatly by the US.

Don't make vapid assertions and grand statements when you don't know what the facts are.

South Korea also sends them aid, even though they have been caught, assinating members of the South Korean government.

When is this? Japan? I am gonna explain something about the Nuclear bombing of Japan. If we had not nuclear bombed Japan, what then?

1. Blockade, cost more manpower, more resources, and would take months, maybe even a year or more; and would probably end costing more lives, cause of fire bombings.

2. Invasion, cost more lives, of both Japanese and Allies, then the nuclear bombings.

3. Diplomacy, we tried this, they would not give up for a long time, and I doubt many of them would be willing to give up, even after the government did.

Nuclear weapons period = retarded.

Zico, do you believe North Korea has the 'right' to develop nuclear weapons and launch systems when doing so is such a drain on their resources that millions of their citizens would starve were it not for other countries (including the US 'bully') providing food aid? I'm also curious as to what you think we should 'do' should the North Koreans use their weapon 'wrongly'.. nuke the whole country back to the stone age? The only thing to do with nuclear weapons is get rid of them.. ALL of them. Otherwise somebody WILL use them, sooner or later.

I think he made a point by saying the people would rebel if they didn't want to suffer, but I think their is a time when people are oppressed so much, they give up.

I doubt everyone would give up their nuclear weapons, and its like the ever so famous words "all or nothing" cause if we all got rid of our nuclear weapons, except for the terrorist groups, then they'd become more powerful then ever.

MY EYES, IT BURNS!! Please enlarge the words lol.

Anyway as the title say, I believe that N.Korea has the right to obtain any nuclear missile it wished as long as it does not use it wrongly. We as nations of this earth could not, would not do anything to prevent them until they use it to there own agenda.

Keep in mind that the U.S is the only country in history to actually use it wrongfully, so I am more scared that the U.S would provoke yet another war on another soil on another country.

It is well known especially by politicians that any country that possess a nuclear missile has the best defense against a bulling country. i.e USA.

Their is no reason for nuclear weapons then either, intimidation, or extermination. I do not see why North Korea needs them, they are long time friends of China, South Korea lacks the military might to hardly challenge them. Let's say America 's a 'threat' to them, nuclear bombs would not stop America, it would take more then 1, 2, or 3, to destory the blunt of the American Military. I do not see any reasons they are threatened, and wrongfully? please look above at what I just wrote about Japan, maybe you should give me your better way of doing the Japan Assault. Oh, so we are the bully? How so? We are not forcing North Korea to become a democracy, we are forcing them to stay away from a bomb, they don't need, and trying to keep them from going ape-crazy and nuclear bombing some country, cause their leader feels he wants more land. If anyone is the bully, its North Korea, they invaded South Korea in 1950, cause they wanted to 're-unify', even though South Korea, chose not a unification. That is tyranny, something America fought in 1776, not the exact same, but tyranny no less. If you want to call America the bully, fine, but do not think North Korea is innocent just cause America has done things that you believe are wrong.

[Zico]

Their is no reason for nuclear weapons then either, intimidation, or extermination. I do not see why North Korea needs them, they are long time friends of China, South Korea lacks the military might to hardly challenge them.

The American government are hypocrites! Why did they turn a blind eye to Israel yet claim that North Korea has no right to own a nuclear missile?

Let's say America 's a 'threat' to them, nuclear bombs would not stop America, it would take more then 1, 2, or 3, to destory the blunt of the American Military.

Then 4,5 or 6 maybe?

Just wondering if 'nuclear bombs' won't stop America, then what will? Scary thought.

but do not think North Korea is innocent just cause America has done things that you believe are wrong.

Show me where I claimed North Korea is innocent or not. I only said they have a right to own a Nuclear Missile.

[Trumble]

If the people wanted change then they would've done so for years and to my knowledge, I have not heard any North Koreans against this. Sure you would get a couple of them against it.

'The people' have no say. North Korea is perhaps the most brutal and oppressive regime on the planet. The reason you haven't heard any North Koreans speaking out is firstly that they have no means to do so, and secondly they would end up dead if they did.

[Muezzin]

About South Korea and China providing food aid - from what I gather, this is the main thing keeping a deluge of refugees from flooding those two countries.

[Clover]

The American government are hypocrites! Why did they turn a blind eye to Israel yet claim that North Korea has no right to own a nuclear missile?




Then 4,5 or 6 maybe?

Just wondering if 'nuclear bombs' won't stop America, then what will? Scary thought.



Show me where I claimed North Korea is innocent or not. I only said they have a right to own a Nuclear Missile.

When did Israel clame to have nuclear weapons? Israel has been facing agression from terrorist organizations, and other nations, I do not see how you can compare them to North Korea, when they are getting attacked, every other decade.

A nuclear bomb, like the size of those that we used on Japan, would blow up a city, but their are a lot of cities in America, and blowing up 3 of them, even if they were the 3 largest, would still leave a crap-load of ticked off people, and not all of our nuclear weapons are in one spot, they are spread out, for that exact reason.

You claimed America is the bully, so your are saying (at least, I assume the people who are bullied, are usually the innocent people, while the bully is the evil guy) that they are innocent to the USA's famous "bullying" of their nation.

[Clover]

About South Korea and China providing food aid - from what I gather, this is the main thing keeping a deluge of refugees from flooding those two countries.

I doubt North Korea would allow its people to become refugees, they'd probably kill them first.

[Muezzin]

I doubt North Korea would allow its people to become refugees, they'd probably kill them first.

And give up a valuable bargaining chip?

[Clover]

And give up a valuable bargaining chip?

I'm lost, what do you mean bargaining chip?

[north_malaysian]

NOOOO! DON'T BLOW UP THE PETRONAS TOWERS!! ANYTHING BUT THAT!! DOOMED I SAY DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!

Yeah... exactly that!! LOL....

[north_malaysian]

I doubt North Korea would allow its people to become refugees, they'd probably kill them first.

true.. I wonder why my government still maintaining relationship with North Korea...

[czgibson]

Greetings,

If the people wanted change then they would've done so for years and to my knowledge, I have not heard any North Koreans against this. Sure you would get a couple of them against it.

This must be some sort of joke, surely?

Peace

[nocturnal]

'The people' have no say. North Korea is perhaps the most brutal and oppressive regime on the planet. The reason you haven't heard any North Koreans speaking out is firstly that they have no means to do so, and secondly they would end up dead if they did.

Revolutions come from the people, not uncomprehending outsiders like yourself. It has to be from the people and for the people, much like in Cuba, Bolivia, Venezuela, Egypt etc. Whether this is manifested in the election of a revolutionary candidate as was the case in Venezuela and Bolivia, or in a military revolution, as was the case in Egypt and Cuba, it doesn't matter, it is in the name of the people and the policies instituted are for them.

South Korea does send aid, but China is principally the only nation which has enough leverage to influence the pyongyang regime, they are calling for peaceful dialouge and that is the most viable means of engagement. American led belligerence will only further enrage the N.Koreans.

About the nuclear issue, the US utilised those weapons when the war was essentially won. Sift through some objective history books and listen to what the historians say. Japan had capitulated, and Truman still went ahead and used the nukes primarily as a pernicious statement to the Soviet Union.

Why should Israel, a nation that ha violated countless UN resolutions and circumvented the non-proliferation treaty, and in the process indiscriminately killed thousands of people in the decades that the occupation has endured, be allowed to preserve a formidable and ominous nuclear capacity, and yet N.Korea, which notwithstanding some of their policies and has no intent of attacking anyone in the region, and be faced with the threat of a multilateral invasion, not be allowed to possess such a deterrent?

During the tenure of Roh Moh Hyun, who recently died, we witnessed an unprecedented rapprochment with no mutual animosity at all, much to the chagrin of the US who obviously see any prospect of peace and ultimate reunification as a threat to their interests. Ever since the election of the US backed Lee Myung Bak, we have witnessed this perilous escalation in tensions with the South.

[nocturnal]

About what Zico was saying with regards to the N.Korean people and their attitude towards regime change. I accept that not everyone in the country percieves of the government as a benign and efficient one. But in various documentaries, when the people are asked their opinions on the US, given the history of the Korean war and the atoricities committed by American forces, there is considerable support for Kim Jong Il and his resistnce to neo-imperialist forces. The same can be said of President Ahmadinejad in Iran.

These same people also realise that it is acutely crippling sanctions that have wrought economic misery on the North Koreans.

You might argue that since the society is closed and they have no access to outside information sources, they are incapable of making a balanced and informed opinion on the issue of their national leadership, and that arugement has merit, but even with new information sources, the history of the US, its wars of aggression and invasions from Panama, Grenada, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Cuba, Iraq, Afghanistan and its support for some of the most vicious dictators; when all this comes to the fore, do you earnestly belive opinion towards the US and its "New World Order" will radically change, and that you'll see throngs of people in th streets of Pyongyang calling for the mericful and munificent US to intervene and bestow their brand of democracy on North Korea just as they have done elsewhere?

[Muezzin]

I'm lost, what do you mean bargaining chip?

Maybe that's the wrong term.

North Korea can use the threat of a flood of refugees as leverage if South Korea or China withdraw their aid.

[Zafran]

Salaam

Nuclear weapons period = retarded.

Peace

[Clover]

Maybe that's the wrong term.

North Korea can use the threat of a flood of refugees as leverage if South Korea or China withdraw their aid.

Ah, well, I doubt they'd destroy the two nations, but they could hurt the economy, but they could also help it in the long run, if they don't become criminals, or stay in poverty when they come.

[KAding]

These same people also realise that it is acutely crippling sanctions that have wrought economic misery on the North Koreans.

How so? The DPRK has always had ample opportunity to trade with two of their big neighbors, China and the Soviet Union, as well as with the rest of the communist world. Besides, even now there are a lot fewer sanctions in place than you seem to think. Trade is in fact possible between the DPRK and virtually any other country, including the US actually (but with restrictions). There are no US-sponsored international economic sanctions in place, China would never have agreed to them anyway. There aren't even 'Western' sanctions in place. And US unilateral sanctions are pretty meaningless anyway, since the two countries have never had significant trade relations. Are you really implying that the supposed inability to trade with the US is what is causing the economic misery in the DPRK?

They are poor first and foremost because of their rotten economic system, which simply fails to deliver. Also keep in mind that the DPRK follows the Juche ideology, which very much stresses self-reliance. Their economy simply isn't geared towards export, it has very little to offer the outside world. Neither does it's economic policies make it easy for foreigners to invest in the country.

But perhaps you could list some of these 'acutely crippling sanctions' that are supposed to wreak havoc on the state-controlled North Korean economy?

[KAding]

Revolutions come from the people, not uncomprehending outsiders like yourself. It has to be from the people and for the people, much like in Cuba, Bolivia, Venezuela, Egypt etc. Whether this is manifested in the election of a revolutionary candidate as was the case in Venezuela and Bolivia, or in a military revolution, as was the case in Egypt and Cuba, it doesn't matter, it is in the name of the people and the policies instituted are for them.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Any kind of political opposition, any kind of dissent is ruthlessly crushed. The obstacles any revolutionaries would have to overcome to actually threaten the current totalitarian regime are mind-boggling.

Any change in the DPRK will have to come from the leadership IMHO, be it disgruntled generals or otherwise high party officials. A bottom-up revolt seems unlikely as long as any kind of opposition organization is impossible, you cannot even travel from one village to another without government approval for gods sake, nor do they have access to any kind of non-official media. Keep in mind that this totalitarian repression of opposition is happening in concurrence with enormous economic hardship. IMHO ordinary people in the DPRK are simply too busy to survive.

[KAding]

The American government are hypocrites! Why did they turn a blind eye to Israel yet claim that North Korea has no right to own a nuclear missile?

Good point. But following that reasoning it does mean that every country has a right to own nuclear weapons, including Israel of course. In principle I would agree with that.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and stop proliferation. Since more nuclear weapons surely won't make the world a much safer place? Do you agree with that at least?

[AntiKarateKid]

When did Israel clame to have nuclear weapons? Israel has been facing agression from terrorist organizations, and other nations, I do not see how you can compare them to North Korea, when they are getting attacked, every other decade.

A nuclear bomb, like the size of those that we used on Japan, would blow up a city, but their are a lot of cities in America, and blowing up 3 of them, even if they were the 3 largest, would still leave a crap-load of ticked off people, and not all of our nuclear weapons are in one spot, they are spread out, for that exact reason.

You claimed America is the bully, so your are saying (at least, I assume the people who are bullied, are usually the innocent people, while the bully is the evil guy) that they are innocent to the USA's famous "bullying" of their nation.

CHeck history. Israel illegally developed its nuclear program agaisnt the objections of the international community.

Let's not get into the Israel attacked by other countries debate as it is clear from UN records and history who is attacking who.

And finally since when did Israel need nukes to fight these so called threats. It has jets, tanks, a military and all types of weapons which it used already to bomb cities into oblivion.

[Clover]

CHeck history. Israel illegally developed its nuclear program agaisnt the objections of the international community.

Let's not get into the Israel attacked by other countries debate as it is clear from UN records and history who is attacking who.

And finally since when did Israel need nukes to fight these so called threats. It has jets, tanks, a military and all types of weapons which it used already to bomb cities into oblivion.

Israel is surrounded by countries it has fought, thats more of a reason, then not being surrounded by anyone who could overthrow you.

[ositobimbo4life]

You can't tell a nation to abandon it's nuclear weapon program when you, the moral leader of the world, won't do the same.

[north_malaysian]

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and stop proliferation. Since more nuclear weapons surely won't make the world a much safer place? Do you agree with that at least?

Agree